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Utah Jazz: Jazz to trade Devin Harris to the Hawks for Marvin Williams

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  • Jazz Source Alpine, UT
    July 2, 2012 6:46 p.m.

    Glad Harris is the one out. I predicted it when I saw they picked up Tinsleys option the other day. No way the Jazz are carrying 4 PG's.

    Williams is more of what we need. This should allow Hayward to the SG position where he has had his best games/performances.

    Mo Williams is more of what we need at PG and that is toughness. Harris was a sissy to put it bluntly. Too fragile and played that way.

    If O'Conner could unload Al Jefferson then we really might be able to get somewhere. Unfortunately as long as he is hogging all the possessions and standing holding the ball half the game this team will wallow in mediocrity. Not to mention he won't play a lick of defense. That is about all that is holding this team back from getting on with the youth movement.

    O'Conner has cleaned up with that Deron Williams trade and the Okur dump.

    Favors, Kanter, Mo Williams (okur trade exception), Marvin Williams + GS future 1st rounder + nets 2015 2nd rounder, plus cash!

    What a performance.

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    July 2, 2012 7:03 p.m.

    I don't understand why Jazz fans have anything to cheer about. Kevin O'Conner is basically picking up players that nobody else wants making us an old and mediocre team and wasting our money for players that will be out of the league or injured within two years.

  • scalman Temecula, CA
    July 2, 2012 7:38 p.m.

    @coleman51...unbelievable negativity on your part. And, dude, Marvin Williams just turned 26 (Millsap is 27, by comparison). Not old by any stretch. Good all-around game, too, gets to the free throw lane and converts well, and he has length.

    @Jazz Source, I like your analysis. I think it might be hard to unload Jefferson. The Jazz may have to just let him go after next season, unless a contender loses a front line player.

    It will be interesting at SF and SG now. Burks will probably back up SG and PG, Hayward will start at SG and Millsap will back up Williams at SF.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    July 2, 2012 8:21 p.m.

    to be honest...i think they should just package Al Jeff for a few first round picks and some decent serviceable big men....and let Favors Start...he deserves to start...i am scared that by not committing to these kids...they might end up somewhere else when their contract is up...i am partly going to agree with Coleman51...Marvin Williams is a decent player...but ever since he has been inconsistent...and fell off the Atlanta's rotation...but who knows...Tinsley and Josh Howard just got a boost when they got here...the problem is the rotation...are they going to re-sign josh howard? if so...that would mean...all our young guys...our future core...would get minimum minutes yet again...stumping their growth...id rather see Favors and Hayward start...and Burks and Kanter getting more minutes as subs...these kids deserve and must be developed...they are our future after all...

  • EducateMe SANDY, UT
    July 2, 2012 8:26 p.m.

    In all reality I think Milsap is the odd man out in our front court. He has more trade value and plus the Jazz need outside shooters and defenders. If big Al and keep the ball moving or shoot it quicker its a plus. Big Al is a 20/10 guy and needs to play a little bit better D. Favors will not move to the C position and Kanter isn't ready to start, so give him about 3 more years. I would hate to see Milsap go but if we can get a outside shooter/defender then it won't be less of a loss. I do like Danny green and I would like to see the Jazz offer him something but I'm afraid that the spurs will offer no matter what the Jazz offer him.

  • chase SL Salt Lake City, UT
    July 2, 2012 9:22 p.m.

    Devin Harris was one of the coolest cats on the Jazz. With that said, Kevin O' Connor has done an excellent job improving the Jazz at a mere cost. We are lucky to have him.

  • Dustin Idaho Falls, ID
    July 2, 2012 11:03 p.m.

    First I must say that people are way too hard on Big Al. He has guts, and we would not have made the playoffs this year without him. Favors is a Power Forward. I can't see him playing the 5. So it looks like we have a starting lineup of Mo, Hayward, Marvin, Milsap/Favors, and Jefferson. It will be interesting to see what Corbin decides to do with Marvin, Milsap, and Favors. One of these guys will be coming off the bench, and Corbin will have to experiment with who makes a better sixth man.

    My #1 concern is leadership. Mo brings a style of game that is similar to Devin's, but he has more desire to win. We still don't have a general on the court, very few teams do, and until we have that leadership, we won't make any kind of run in the playoffs.

    #2 is ball sharing. We don't have very many guys who are willing or able to pass the ball. Marvin Williams' assist stats make Big Al look like Steve Nash. Can Mo Williams be taught to be a distributor? I doubt it.

  • shaybo Richfield, UT
    July 2, 2012 11:12 p.m.

    What's not to like about this deal? We had 4 point guards on the roster and while some were excited with the prospect of Harris and Williams at the 1 and 2 spots that makes you really small. One good thing about the trade is it means they won't be signing Howard who is actually over the hill and opens the door for Hayward to be full time at the 2 spot. Marvin Williams is still a young and athletic 6'9" small forward who can stretch defenses and could be re-energized with the Jazz. Add a outside shooting free agent and this is a team that will win a lot of games.

  • Americanvet Ivins, UT
    July 2, 2012 11:47 p.m.

    @Dustin> I think you will see the Jazz will have a genaral on the court. Mo Williams is a pretty take charge guy if you've had a chance to see him very much. I was also impressed when Tinsley was on the court last year too and I think he will have a bigger role this year and will also be a good floor general

    @Scalman> It will be interesting to see who might start at SF with Milsap and Marvin Williams now on the team. I confess I haven't seen Marvin Williams play much but I know he was a big stud coming out of college. But, I would find it hard to imagine that he is better than Milsap on a consistant basis. Milsap is one tough dude. Of course with Milsaps contract expiring next year he could be on the trading block now for that outside shooter if the Jazz feel Williams can hold down the SF position

  • B Russ Ephraim, UT
    July 3, 2012 12:35 a.m.

    With this trade Kevin O' Conner has assembled a nice young core of lotto picks. Marvin Williams #2 pick. Derrick Favors #3 pick. Enes Kanter #3 pick. Gordon Hayward #9 and Alec Burks #12 pick. I am impressed. Then add to that Kevins 3 # 47 draft picks of Mo Williams, Paul Milsap and scorer Kevin Murphy and you have the makings of a pretty good basketball team.

  • Jim987 West Jordan, Utah
    July 3, 2012 2:44 a.m.

    This is a good move. The Jazz unload one of their 4 pg's for a SF. Mo will be an improvement over Harris. People keep saying Favors can't/ won't play center. I think he would do better than Al they are the smae height at 6' 10" Favors probably has a better vertical and plays better D. I like Al but If the Jazz want to make room for Favors uloading Millsap won't give more experience for Favors...Al will still hog the ball. So how will Favors get more touches than before? He won't! So Al will have to eventually go if any of the "bigs" are to develope.
    imagine this: pg= Mo, SG= Hayward, SF= Marvin, PF= Millsap, C= Favors. Maybe bring back AK for backup PF/SF.

  • scalman Temecula, CA
    July 3, 2012 5:25 a.m.

    @Americanvet, maybe you're right to wait and see on Milsap vs. Williams starting at SF. It might lean in Williams favor, though, since he is more of a true Sf and Milsap more of a PF.
    @Dustin, I just read that Williams's assists stats are misleading, since the Atlanta team played a lot of isolation by design. Supposedly, Williams is pretty smart and should adapt fairly easily to a more pass-oriented, movement-oriented offense.

  • milner Centerfield Sanpete, UT
    July 3, 2012 5:57 a.m.

    I think this is a great move! Harris was inconsestant at best.I think Jefferson will probably be the next to go. He plays the kind of of defense Boozer plays absolutly none.

  • King Black Paso Robles, CA
    July 3, 2012 6:28 a.m.

    @ all you

    I dont know why everyone keeps saying Al is a black hole yes he use to be but you cant sit there and say that he didnt start to change his game and pass the ball out more as the season went on, so he is learning how to pass out other wise his assist numbers would not have started to rise last year as the year went on. And about his D no he doesnt do to good on the pick and roll but guess what he still plays decent man up D how many blocks did he have last season and since its obvious that not all of those blocks were from man to man then id have to say his help D was there at times tho not better than Favors, but anyways to say he dont play a lick of D is ludacris.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    July 3, 2012 6:39 a.m.

    Big Al's led the team in blocked shots last year. His defensive problems were only when the perimeter defenders could not keep their guys out of the lane. To switch or not is the hardest question for a big, especially when he is not especially nimble or quick. He is the Jazz only go-to guy when you've just had four trips down the court without scoring. He was, arguably, the Jazz MVP last year.

    Millsap might get some time at SF but he and Favors are still primarily PFs. Williams is a different type of SF in that he hits perimeter shots. Imagine an offense centered around dropping the ball into AJ, Favors, Kanter, and Millsap. If those guys can learn to kick it back out, you need shooters on the perimeter. Marvin Williams fills that role. Plus, at 6'9", he is a pretty good perimeter defender. Though he should never be confused with a stopper, he often defended the opposing team's best perimeter player in Atlanta.

    Mo Williams huge upside is that he will run the ball, something Harris often struggled to do (which is why we loved Watson so much).

  • rossyredhawk Charleston, SC
    July 3, 2012 6:53 a.m.

    I think the ideal lineup situation going into this year should be Mo, Hayward, Millsap, Favors and jefferson. Then we bring kanter and williams off the bend at the 5 and 4 spots respectively with miles(if he stays) at the 3, burks at 2 and tinsley/watson at point

  • rossyredhawk Charleston, SC
    July 3, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    I think a consistent lineup of jefferson, favors, millsap, hayward and mo gives us a real shot at making the playoffs. Mo really played well last yr for the clips even tho he wasn't a starter. He didn't pout and cry when he learned he would be coming off the bench early in the season. He just went out there with the time he had and lit it up! Those are the kind of players we need. If burks improves as much as hayward did in his second season i think our bench could be scary as well with kanter, marvin, miles, burks and watson. Not bad. I like our chances for the playoffs this yr with better guard play.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    July 3, 2012 7:12 a.m.

    I think the Jazz aren't done. Based on current personnel, here is a potential depth chart.

    PG: Williams, Tinsley, Watson
    SG: Hayward, Burks, Murphy (unsigned draft pick), Bell
    SF: Williams, Carroll, Evans (qualifying offer)
    PF: Favors, Millsap
    C: Jefferson, Kanter

    Lots of flexibility.
    Mo Williams: PG, SG (in spurts)
    Hayward: PG (in spurts), SG, SF
    Burks: PG (in spurts), SG
    Carroll/Evans: SF, PF against some players
    Millsap: PF, SF (which I didn't believe but he proved last year)
    Favors: PF, C (in spurts)

    Possible rotation:
    PG: Williams, Tinsley
    Wings: Hayward, Burks, Marvin Williams, (with Millsap and Carrol getting a few minutes)
    Posts: Favors, Jefferson, Millsap, (with Kanter getting a few minutes)
    Deep bench: Evans, Watson, Murphy, Bell

    Obvious moves:
    - Dump Bell
    - Extend Mo Williams contract

    Needs:
    - Perimeter defense
    - Consistent perimeter shooting (and making and Sloan would say)

    Question: Can Hayward, Burks, Williams, Williams provide it?

    2013 objectives:
    - Playoffs: 2nd round
    - Hayward becomes consistent big time player
    - Kanter/Favors become improved replacements for AJ/Millsap (potential free agents)
    - Burks becomes consistent contributor

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    July 3, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    As I said before, I don't think the Jazz are done trying to improve the team this off-season. I expect at least one more trade. Of course, trades are hard. You need to consider the salary cap, length of the contract, the potential to re-sign the player, the future potential of the player (including age considerations), etc. That being said, here is how I value Jazz players as trade bait:

    Untouchables: Hayward, Favors

    Upgrade (offer too good to turn down): Mo Williams, Burks, Kanter

    Prospective free agent (move before losing for nothing): Jefferson, Millsap

    Niche-filler (move to fill a specific need): Marvin Williams, Tinsley

    Trade filler (can round out trade to make it work): Carroll, Evans, Watson, Murphy

    Give away: Bell

    I'd love to hear trade ideas from other Jazz fans. Please, though, nobody suggest we trade Raja for Dwight Howard or something equally obtuse. Understand that most teams really like their top players so you have to give real value to pry those players away. Of course, O'Connor is better than most GMs at getting value in return so you can stretch a little.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    July 3, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    Why everybody is hating on big Al is a mystery to me. Without his scoring during the season the Jazz would have lost many more games and wouldn't have made the playoffs. Millsap is good, but can't shoulder the full scoring load. If the jazz trade Jefferson they will be much worse off then they are now.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    July 3, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    A couple responses to earlier comments:

    Marvin Williams only took 9 shots a game last year (in 30+ minutes). He is not a selfish player. How many touches do you think he had with guys like Joe Johnson and Josh Smith on the team? Atlanta's offense was built around isolation plays so they are not a great assist team.

    Big Al is not selfish either. Perimeter players pass the ball inside the paint where the shooting percentage is around 60%. Post players pass to the perimeter where the shooting percentage is around 40%. Last year, the Jazz went game after game unable to hit from the outside. They were taking plenty of shots so Al was giving the ball up but it will never show up in his stats if the shots aren't going in.

    A simple look at last years stats shows the following APGs for key Jazz players:
    - Hayward: 3.1
    - Millsap: 2.3
    - Jefferson: 2.2
    - Favors: 0.7

    Why does Jefferson get a bad rap while Hayward and Millsap (in similar minutes) get off scot-free? And you really think Favors will be an assist upgrade? Seriously?

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    July 3, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Great move.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    July 3, 2012 9:33 a.m.

    I'll stick up for Jefferson. In fact, I think he may have improved his game more than any other Jazz player last season. Jefferson evolved his game tremendously, and was playing the game of "inside/outside" with guys to counter the double/triple teams. He is a solid passer. On his bad teams in Boston and Minnesota, he was shooting over the double/triple teams.

    Jefferson also had one of the best FG% on the Jazz. Jefferson was our most reliable option within 16 feet of the basket. Who else on last year's roster do you want to shoot the 15-foot jumper?

    Say what you want about Jefferson's defense....there is room for improvement, but he is improving his defense. Opposing bigs are starting to shoot over him, which is what you want, as opposed to finding Jefferson out of position.

    I'd hate to see Jefferson leave already. He's a locker room guy. He and Millsap are the team leaders. Jefferson is a huge part of the continuity from last year to this upcoming season.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 3, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    So far, I like what the Jazz are doing. Did you look at the 3 point percentage that Marvin williams shot last year. And Mo is a better 3 shooter than Devan Harris is.
    The Jazz are over-loaded on big men now, especially if Evans signs. If they trade Jefferson, they will be too thin at Center, unless they get a good defensive center back. My bet is that they will quietly shop Millsap for a good 3 point shooting 2 or 3. If they don't find that this summer, look for them to make a trade before the deadline this winter.
    O'Connor is brilliant. With all the cap money they will have next year, they can evaluate the needs of the team while likely having a very good year, then move to improve next summer.

  • TerryHaimes Sturgis, MS
    July 3, 2012 11:35 a.m.

    I'm glad Harris is gone. Didn't want Williams but on paper he makes sense. I agree with the "not done yet" folks. Jefferson is still one of if not the best low post scorer in the game. Bell could be an asset for this team. Question is can Corbin Coach and Manage a team that has 12 people that can play. Pop showed what playing 10 or more people can accomplish then he choked against the Thunder when he quit playing them. Trading Millsap would top the Mo Williams mistake.

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    July 3, 2012 11:47 a.m.

    I'm sure this wasn't KOC's first choice for a Harris trade (I kind of would have liked to see Harris for Gortat, to get some REAL length), it's certainly better than sitting on 4 PGs for too long.

  • Kakashi Tokyo, Japan
    July 3, 2012 5:40 p.m.

    @Brahmabull

    its not really a mystery if you really watched the games...and this is a very tough misconception by people...a 20-10 player can be a player who isnt that good...he gets 20-10 because he gets most of the opportunities to score...the rebounds...he rarely gets to 15 rebs...comparing him to a then Utah Boozer...Boozer was eating up the boards...much better than Al...on D...Al is very lead footed...everytime a player penetrates...he would just watch them go by...without an attempt to block or at least try to get back on D...yes you may say he might be called for a foul...but if he rotated properly...he could have defended the shot at least...any one can score in this league...that's why they are pros...what im trying to say is...give Favors the minutes...like he did last year..he could get 20-10 heck 20-13 easily

  • Little Andy Tremonton, UT
    July 4, 2012 12:34 p.m.

    Thank you to those that know how to spell Millsap. Now that the grammar police have been contacted. This might be the right place for Marvin Williams. I think he could have a breakout year. I think AL has been good for the Jazz but might be a very good trade chip. One way or the other I think Favors will start. Kanter sophomore season should be a bright one..