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Supreme Court upholds individual mandate in President Obama's health care overhaul

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  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:34 a.m.

    obama: it wasn't a tax before it was. the guy doesn't have a clue as to honesty. o will go. this is his doom. go romney! come january this will be repealed.

  • dumprake Washington, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    Freedom is gone from the land. If socialists can require this, they can require anything else. I'm extremely disappointed in John Roberts, who was the deciding vote. Secret combinations continue to rule and abuse individual liberty.

  • BYU_Aggie LOGAN, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:38 a.m.

    So, a Democrat President created a new tax? Didn't see that one coming ;)

  • Captain Kirk Lehi, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:39 a.m.

    The supreme court fails us again.
    I guess all you have to do is call something a tax and the government can do it.
    Of course maybe we can lay the blame on the fools who let the 16th amendment pass.

    The creep of huge socialist style government continues to "progress".
    We keep moving the wrong direction.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    SO their process was stopping the expansion of Medicaid to cover those uninsured, but yet lets impose stiff penalties on those who can't afford coverage.

    Is anyone else as stumped as I am that this is from a president who's supposed to be a champion of the working poor? The only change I see is that the poor are about to be punished a whole lot more for being poor.

    Im also curious how they plan to fine the mass of uninsured "undocumented" that this very paper has been running a series on in relation to how underinsured they are.

    Furthermore, how is it we've come to a place in history where insurance is NEEDED because our care is that high? Only a decade ago, I was a uninsured student, and when I got banged up in an accident, I was able to go to a clinic, and pay off my injured rotator cuff in reasonable monthly installments over a reasonable amount of time.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    Good.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    obama promised to not raise taxes on anyone making less than 250,000. Yet his signature law is ruled a tax. Thanks for an additional tax increase. Which you know the numbers are not going to be correct, and within a short time they'll be raising this tax over and over again on us. Stating that they have the obligation to pay more and more.

    Just watch and see who becomes richer off of this. Very few will benefit from it.

    I suppose they can now force us to buy light bulbs of their choosing....oh wait they already have

    Or maybe dictate what kind of food and drink we can have....oh wait they already have

    They'll probably make quotas of race and gender to hire....oh wait they already have

    Maybe they'll start allowing dogs (non service) in restaurants and kitchens.....oh they are already working on that

    A country where we have few choices, just dictators to tell us what to do, when to do it, how to do it etc.

  • Pete1215 Lafayette, IN
    June 28, 2012 8:43 a.m.

    So if We The People have to provide the money to people who must pay for health care coverage but who cannot afford to, I presume this new money will be forcably extracted from my wallet. Or China had better get out the big check book.

  • Badger55 Nibley, Ut
    June 28, 2012 8:45 a.m.

    The solicitor general argued it was a penalty, not a tax. Obama said it was a penalty, not a tax. How in the world is it now a tax? All the more reason for a change in the white house.

  • Whos Life RU Living? Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    This really stinks for the free loaders. Personal responsiblity can be difficult, but I think it is something that had to be done for the well being of our great nation.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    This ruling will motivate thinking Americans everywhere with a fury not seen in a very long time to vote Obama out of office. This economy-destroying law will, nay must, be repealed. This win was bad for the country, but ultimately better for Romney than Obama since most Americans see it for what it is and will vote accordingly.

    Legally, I'm deeply disappointed in Chief Justice Roberts...he allowed himself to be sold on the lie that this is a "tax" that Obama's Solicitor General perpetrated in open court, when the Obama administration avoided making it a tax like the plague when pushing the law because the American people would never have accepted that. This is clearly NOT a tax in any way, not in the real world. I understand the leftie lemmings on the court buying that, but not John Roberts. It looks like his motive was to go to great lengths to let a law stand out of deference to the legislature, even one he admitted was a bad one. But it's the Supreme Court's JOB to strike down clearly unconstitutional laws like this one; not force-fit it into constitutionality.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    Allright, the Supreme Court is supreme. That means stop your constant whining and follow the law.

  • LindonMan Lindon, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    Sad, sad day

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:50 a.m.

    A death blow for America and our medical community! I am truly shocked.

    We must change the White House in November!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    Governor Romeny was right about this individual mandate.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    Another win for the good guys! Let the ranting begin. But as you rant consider this:

    "It came to pass … there began to be some disputings among the people; and some were lifted up unto pride and boastings because of their exceedingly great riches, yea, even unto great persecutions; For there were many merchants in the land, and also many lawyers, and many officers.

    "And the people began to be distinguished by ranks, according to their riches and their chances for learning; yea, some were ignorant because of their poverty, and others did receive great learning because of their riches. … And thus there became a great inequality in all the land." (3 Nephi 6:4-14)

    Does this passage cause any concern for anyone in Utah, or will the majority of Utahns vote for Mitt no matter what? I'm guessing the latter.

  • Duke Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    Thank you John Roberts!

  • Duke Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:55 a.m.

    Congratulations, Mr. President!

  • Noodlekaboodle Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    @Pete1215
    So you don't think you are paying for others healthcare now? The price you pay at the hospital is inflated due to the fact that a hospital is not allowed to turn away anyone in need of medical treatment.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    How many Utahns will put aside their contempt for My Awesome President and try to be good-sports and patriotic citizens?

    Can you dig down and find that "extra gene of patriotism" and make Mike Lee proud!?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    Remember the Boston Tea Party! Remember the reasons it occured regarding the British Throne's Tax Policy. The Democrats have forced a tax upon everyone that the majority did not want. Payback is coming in November.

  • OneAmerican Idaho Falls, ID
    June 28, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    Re: "Whos Life RU Living?" 8:46

    Freeloaders will still be freeloading, it will just cost the rest of us more. If you don't make a certain income, someone else has to pay your insurance, which will cost more than free trips to the ER were costing. You also just added another middle man, the one who can't even run the postal service in a profitable fashion, which will increase costs. Eventually costs will be so high, the rationing will begin. I read an article showing the tax increases that now come into play, not on the 1%, but everyone who breaths. The 7.5% starting point for medical deductions now goes to 10% before you can deduct. Your medical savings account just took a hit as well. Dig into this and we just bankrupted the country. Did you know that "INNOVATOR DRUG COMPANIES" (researchers for cures) took a HUGE HIT which will discourage research, health care costs will rise and cures become more difficult (money that could have been spent on research no goes to pay for the freeloaders). If you think this is good for America, time will prove you wrong.

  • carpoolmom SOUTH JORDAN, Salt Lake
    June 28, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    Way to go Utah for voting Hatch in again. He is the one that first started this health care with individual mandate. He was the one that voted for each of these Supreme Court nominees except the last because he knew his job was on the line. He said before that he wouldn't fight the Dems nominees believing it was their right if they were in power despite the fact that they fought everyone of the Republicans nominees. And way to go to make sure Roberts got on the court Hatch. Why is it that Ginsburg always votes the liberal way but the so called conservatives on the court are not really conservatives. Since I didn't vote for Hatch I sure don't think it's fair that I'm stuck with this mess of a health care law. Watch for Hatch to make a big deal about this acting like he will save the day when he was the problem from the beginning. I'm just so mad at Utah voters and those who didn't even show up to vote. How he is thought of as a conservative is beyond me.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    June 28, 2012 9:03 a.m.

    New motto for the Statue of Liberty... "Abandon all hope ye who enter here."

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    Conservatives say they want a court that adheres to the law and to the constitution regardless. Be careful what you wish for.

    1) US Constitution : Article 1 Section 8
    Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, .. to promote the general welfare.

    2) William Shakespeare
    A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

    i.e. A tax by any other name ( mandate ) is still a tax.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    As someone with a chronic condition, I'm glad I can no longer be discriminated against in the health care market. You people complaining about this great lack of freedom have no idea what a lack of freedom truly is. Try health care bills for life that without insurance would bankrupt you and your family.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:10 a.m.

    Republicans will huff and puff, but they're not really upset about this. Individual mandate was their idea. If were up to Democrats, we'd have socialized medicine.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    June 28, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    The Supreme Court just put the final nail in Obama's coffin.

    So don't be mad...they actually did us a favor.

  • HS Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    Good for the country!!! Free loaders now have to invest for their own health care!! Amazes me how some of these conservative justices try to twist the law. Congress creates law not the courts. Scalia is a disgrace to wear the black robe!!

  • Sponge Bob Rockwall, TX
    June 28, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    Who's John Gault??

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    June 28, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    At last, the SCOTUS has showed some common sense. It's about time everybody paid their fair share for a problem we all share.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:17 a.m.

    Expansion of government and government power ALWAYS hurts our standard of living and solvency. This is not "progressive"--it's drastically REGRESSIVE. I spent a quarter century working with every level of government, and I can guarantee you that this too will hurt our chances for a bright future here. But just like Greece, our decisions at the ballot box may affect not only our standard of living and way of life, but ultimately even our chances for survival. This thing was a disaster to begin with, and if you aren't yet registered to vote and aren't playing an active role in what's happening here with the abuse of power and position, maybe you deserve what can very easily happen to you. I'm just so sorry that my family will also have to ride the train to oblivion with you.

  • williary Kearns, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    I'd like to congratulate President Obama, and Governor Romney. The health care reform legislation they put together, comprised from the health care reform Governor Romney wrote in Massachusettes, is a good first step to helping stop the ridiculous exponential increases in American health care.

    President Obama took Governor Romney's landmark legislation, and created a foundation for health care reform in America. This initial law can be built on by future generations.

    It's about time America decided that the qualilty of its citizens health care should not be determined by their bank account.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    All these patriotic comments really make the tears well-up.

    It is so nice to see comments from people who actually follow the admonitions of their religion to be patriotic citizens who respect all Americans and the democratic processes we believe in! Comments like those really make my heart swell with pride.

    I'll be checking back to see if there are any.

  • Denys Picard near montreal, QC
    June 28, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    The supreme court is using the Constitutional Taxing Powers of Government as a tool for Racketering in order to force people into a transaction which the Court itself explains the government cannot force you to commit to under commerce laws!.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 28, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    Twice in one week. Immigration and healthcare with Roberts the deciding vote. Let's not forget that John Roberts was selected by GW Bush.

    Not the first time a Supreme Court choice turned out to be full of surprises. Earl Warren seemed like a safe bet when Eisenhower selected him as Chief Justice. California Governor and Dewey's VP running mate in 1948. Too soon to tell if John Roberts will turn out to be in that mold but many conservative Republicans must be gagging this morning.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    A lot of us KNEW that the day would come when the constitution would "hang by a thread".

    A word of advice: BE VERY CAREFUL from now on, what you post online.

    Remember: The NDAA allows AMERICANS to be detained and/or incarcerated without charges.

    The progressives, along with their lamestream media helpers will do EVERYTHING they can to keep this President in office!

  • IdahoStranger NEWDALE, ID
    June 28, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    Hopefully this will wake up some who call themselves Americans.
    Even if we were to get a replacement in the White House who is willing to support repeal, he will need a Congress who truly understands the Constitution and the concept of "limited government".

    So my suggestion is to find and support congressional candidates who not only will repeal Obamacare,
    but also who understand that we must not replace it with another government program.

    "The essence of freedom is the limitation of government."

    The very force that is to protect our God given rights has now become our greatest oppressor.

    Time is running out to make the changes in Congress to return us to "limited government."

    It cannot be done by political action alone; we must have a constitutionally informed electorate.

    Time for many, many more Constitutional Study groups. "The Making of America" is a good place to start. You can find it at Deseret Book and other book stores as well in both book, CD and video formats.

    Was anyone really surprised at this ruling?

  • Velton INDEPENDENCE, MO
    June 28, 2012 9:28 a.m.

    Thank you, President Obama and Justice Roberts!

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    Embarrassed utahn let's see how proud you are when you are paying thru the teeth for your new beloved tax. Anything in the scriptures about the wickedness of govts over taxing their people? Hmmmmmm....

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Justice Roberts paused twice during his reading of the majority opinion to state that this in no way established that this was a good law. He stated that if people want different laws, they need elect different people.

    To paraphrase Admiral Yomomoto after Pearl Harbor...They have awakened a sleeping giant....we ride at DAWN!!!!!!

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:31 a.m.

    This is clearly a victory for Mitt Romney because he supported the individual mandate in Massachusetts long before President Obama merely followed in his footsteps with a federal individual mandate. For being first, Romney deserves our vote.

    What's this? You say Mitt's now against the individual mandate? In that case, I'll be voting to re-elect President Obama.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    At first I thought that this was great because those of us who have been paying for health insurance through the nose may get a break. Then my second thought was "Oh this came from Obama. Nothing that dude does is for the common good”

    We the people who have been paying for health insurance for most of our lives are the ones who will lose. We'll lose our present coverage, get higher deductibles, get less quality insurance and will become a part of Obama care which is no care at all except for Obama's pets.

    Congress will have nothing to do with Obama care as their healthcare insurance. If it's good enough for the general public, it should include the ones on Capitol Hill. I have friends on Medicare who are already getting priced out of site. I believe that the implementation of Obama care is already affecting them.

    Obama has to go. He is acting more like a king than a US president. I don't know why people can't see him for what he is. America can't take four more years of this man.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:33 a.m.

    @dumprake
    "Secret combinations continue to rule and abuse individual liberty."

    Republicans pushed it as the alternative to Hillarycare, Romney instituted it, Grassley's amendment put the mandate in the bill before Obama agreed to it and Republicans ran from it. The mandate is conservative policy that focuses on personal responsibility. I'm pretty sure that makes the secret combination the Heritage Foundation.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    Sorry Fitness Freak,

    Even with your dramatic use of ALL CAPS, I'm just not that scared. In fact, comments like yours energize me even more. President Obama won the election with more popular votes than any other president in U.S. history. Does that mean anything to sore-losing ranters? I can not wait until November when My Awesome President is rewarded for the amazing job he's doing by decisively beating Utah Darling Mitt! Keep that endurance up, you're gonna need it!

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    June 28, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    Based on this ruling, government has all power over our every day lives.

    For anyone who supports this ruling, is their a line to what government can force you to do against your will under penalty of fine(tax)/imprisonment? If so, where is that line and how do we know it?

    I submit that there is now no line in what the government can force us to do/buy even if we were to choose not to.

    This is a very sad day for freedom and liberty in America. It's hard to say that we are the land of the free with this ruling.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:36 a.m.

    Heartfelt thanks to a great American, Chief Justice Roberts! And congratulations to another great American, President Barack Obama!

  • A_Chinese_American Cedar Hills, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    This is to confirm that people's freedom is dependent on people their selves. Therefore, when a lot of people don't pay tax anymore, America is sliding into a "free" socialist world. I hope, by electing Mitt Romeny as our next POTUS, America would be changed for better future.

  • Brian Wasilla, AK
    June 28, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    On a side note 100,000 doctors just decided to retire.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    At this time it could be considered to be a huge victory for the Obama administration however I disagree. In fact this ruling only seemed to muddy the waters when taken in its entirety and in conjunction with the law as it currently stands. It seems that what Roberts did was simply force congresses to go back and fix the problems. The ACA has become untenable and it will not work as it stands with the current SCOTUS decisions. That is because there is no funding for it.

    I say this simply due to the fact that if an individual refuses to pay the fine there is nothing that the IRS can do. Not a single thing at all. This is simply because they cannot force you to pay said tax. They can't garnish, or put a lein on your assets or any other enforcement like unto it. They can't even take you to court. This law will go unfunded this law is not the solution. Repeal and replace.

  • Star Bright Salt Lake City, Ut
    June 28, 2012 9:49 a.m.

    When my doctor retired and we hadn't let medi (whatever) know who our new Dr was right away (we didn't think it was necessary because we didn't need to see one for over 6 months) they assigned us a Dr in St George. We called and tried to explain that St George was 400 miles south of us. The reponse was, it couldn't be.
    These are the people who will be taking care of your health care. Good luck!
    Also, you will see the older, more expeienced Drs retire enmasse. So you want to see a Dr, try and find one. The schools will be importing them from India, Mexico or affirmative action students, rushing them through the University.
    Everyone will see their taxes sky rocket, with the Bush tax plan ending, and now the admin will decide just how much you will be paying (all of you, even us, the middle to lower class) and you will gag!
    Welcome President Romney!

  • NotBuyingIt MIDVALE, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    This will prove to be a Pyrrhic victory for Obama. Most Americans do NOT want Obamacare, especially the individual mandate. Hopefully, they will show their displeasure in November. Obama may have won this battle, but by doing so, it may very likely cause him to LOSE the war.

  • Long Hair Pete West Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    I am pleasantly surprised with Chief Justice Roberts. I thought that he would vote the other way. It is refreshing that unlike Scalia, Thomas, and Alito, Roberts does not allow his political convictions to sway his every vote.

  • annewandering oakley, idaho
    June 28, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    My first thought on seeing that Roberts voted for it was: What are the conservatives getting out of this being law? Reading the posts here affirms my answer. A reason to twist it to blaming Obama raising taxes. Another 'talking point' for Romney.
    Dont worry, all you people who are against the so called 'entitlement' of good health care for everyone. Every conservative state will opt out and the poor will not benefit. Be proud.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:04 a.m.

    The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:11 a.m.

    Can ANYONE whos cheering this on explain exactly why this is a good idea? Some of you have cited personal responsibility. I am all for that, and don't depend on anyone for anything. However, what about the single moms who wait tables? They're going to pay their rent before Medical insurance they don't really need at the time. What about the convienence store clerks who are about to get their gas shut off? You think they're really concerned about getting decent health care?

    Sometimes, it's NOT a sense of responsibility that keeps you from getting health coverage as much as it is your own wallet. Some people have resources stretched much thinner then others, and they can only stretch so far.

  • merich39 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:12 a.m.

    I blame this on Chief Justice Roberts. Who appointed this activist judge to the SCOTUS, anyway?

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    June 28, 2012 10:13 a.m.

    So if you are living with too much month and not enough paycheck. You need to but health insurance and if you are too poor to pay for health insurance you are going to be fined? This came from a Democratic president?

  • RedneckLefty St. George, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:23 a.m.

    The Republicans aren't mad because they hate Obamacare. After all, the Republicans INVENTED Obamacare. They came up with the idea of the individual mandate in the first place; they only decided it was unconstitutional after Obama borrowed the idea from them.

    Now they're just kicking themselves because they went to so much trouble to name their idea after him.

  • Fitz Murray, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:24 a.m.

    This story is just plain wrong. The individual mandate was found to be unconstitutional. The decision, on page 59, reads "The individual mandate cannot be upheld as an exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause. That Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage in it."

    The tax that may exist, depending on income, still stays. But it is your choice. And because the individual mandate and medicaid requirements forced on states have been found to be unconstitutional, the financial burden to insurance companies and businesses continues without the requirement that people buy insurance.

    Insurance companies still have to carry kids on parents insurance until the age of 26, insurance will still have to ignore pre-existing conditions, they still have to sell you insurance right before surgery and, I expect, premiums will go way up.

    With the coming financial burdens due to the lost of the individual mandate, I would say that Obama lost this one.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:25 a.m.

    To all you whiners over the Supreme Court ruling on the mandate: What is it you don't understand about the law?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:28 a.m.

    Last weekend, the Wall Street Journal, no friend of the President and the law, wrote: "In short, the GOP may be positioning itself to become the dog that caught the car. Political and policy uncertainty is perhaps inevitable given the range of what the Court could do. But the Republicans need a more coherent strategy.... The larger problem is that despite two years of incanting "repeal and replace," Republicans still haven't formed an intellectual let alone popular consensus for the "replace" part.... An orderly unwinding of ObamaCare was always going to be difficult. But based on its disarray and confusion so far, the GOP may be making it harder."

    I have seen nothing in GOP huffing and puffing to alter the WSJ view on this. They have no ideas, no leadership on the issue.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:29 a.m.

    All I can say is -- Yes!

    That, and "I told you so.", but I don't want to add insult to injury.

    Next up -- Get the "For Profit" Middle man Insurance Companies out, and implement a Single payer system.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    SLC gal asks "Can ANYONE whos cheering this on explain exactly why this is a good idea?"
    It is a good idea because the Federal government can no longer afford Reagan Care. Reagan Care is the law which says emergency rooms cannot turn people away. If you, as a struggling single working mother, choose not to buy insurance, you show up at the emergency room when you children have the sniffles. Someone has to pay that bill. Its a VERY expensive bill, much more than if you went to a regular doctor.
    The idea of the Affordable Care Act was to reduce cost through insurance, since insurance companies negotiate lower rates. If everyone has insurance, they will seek care through a normal doctor's visit. If you are truly without means to buy insurance, it is cheaper for state/federal government to provide insurance to you than to pay your emergency room bill.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    "Freedom is gone from the land. If socialists can require this, they can require anything else"

    This seems to be representative of the opposition's sentiments.

    Specifically how is freedom gone from the land?

    They are in no way shape or form socialist. Do you know what a socialist is?

    Why do you people not complain about the state requirement for auto insurance? To the individual the source of the mandate is irrelevant. State or federal, it's still mandated.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:36 a.m.

    People forget that ALL of us who are "responsible" and have been paying for our own medical insurance and care have all been paying a hidden tax every time we've had medical expenses. At least 30% of our expenses have gone to pay for care given to people who are uninsured -- either by choice or by circumstance.

    Another 30% of our insurance premiums are skimmed off the top as profit by insurance companies.

    This law and court ruling do nothing more than bring that hidden tax out into the open. It's a big win for all of us. Even for those who are not smart enough to realize that.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:39 a.m.

    And Romney is still yowling and promising to repeal this. One more reason to vote against Romney.

  • Afterglow Fanissimo Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 28, 2012 10:40 a.m.

    This news is absolutely horrifying. These slick Washington DC fast talkers are taking away our libery! I am going to move down to LaVerkin where I can live in Freedom with my family. We will be able to purchase everything we need at the local Walmart. I hear it's beautiful down there.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:41 a.m.

    But wait,
    O told me my taxes wouldn't go up. Imagine that...he lied.

  • NotBuyingIt MIDVALE, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    You can expect your health insurance premiums to SKYROCKET as insurance companies are forced to pay billions in claims to cover pre-existing conditions for people who have never paid any premiums. This is but one more example of Obama's ignorance as to how the real world operates. Nice work Obama.....

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:47 a.m.

    This is the best thing for our country and our future. I believe John Roberts saw this as something positive for his legacy.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    Moderate-

    You're making quite a few assumptions there. Who's to say that the single working mother will take time out of her schedule to make an appointment for a few weeks in the future, pay the copay, and take her sick children to the doctor's office, when she can continue to just visit the ER immediately? I think a safer assumption would be that the same people who do not have insurance right now, whether because of resources or other reasons, would generally also be the same people who won't use preventative medicine, even if it's available to them.

    Let me ask you a question: Why is a trip to the ER for sniffles so much more expensive than a trip to the clinic? Is there a significant difference in the amount of resources being expended by the hospital? I can't see how. The demand is significantly different, which would explain the higher price. What happens when millions more Americans are now going to clinics? The demand goes up. In fact, if anything, resource consumption will go up, meaning more money spent.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 28, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    Will there be any part of our of lives not touched by a government regulation?

    Will the IRS collect the taxes on those not paying for mandatory insurance taxes. Can they repo our property?

    With so many out of work, or under paid, how are people going to pay for insurance or the taxes for not having it?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    June 28, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    So, Chief Justice John Roberts followed the Conservative Justices on the DC Court of Appeals and upheld ACA.

    Actually im shocked. The Roberts court has an unprecedented record for ruling against the Solicitor General.

    Re:Voice
    Resorting to name calling are we?

  • Whatever Springville, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    Funny how Utah repubs didn't show anywhere near this much outrage when president Larry the Cable guy decided to start a moronic search for WMD's that didn't even exist...

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 28, 2012 10:53 a.m.

    RedneckLefty,

    "The Republicans aren't mad because they hate Obamacare. After all, the Republicans INVENTED Obamacare. They came up with the idea of the individual mandate in the first place; they only decided it was unconstitutional after Obama borrowed the idea from them."

    The Republicans aren't very good poker players. They proposed the mandate thinking there was no way Obama would go for it and they would come out looking like the ones trying to fix health care. What a fix they now find themselves in.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    Tax without representation didn't really happen as we had representation but ruled by the President who doesn't know Integrity who pushed both House and Senate Leaders to dictate their party members vote for Obamacare or they couldn't ever go home from the session. We live in a world where we need another Boston party by someone who lived in Massachusetts when it comes to January 20, 2013. Taxes appear in so many ways through assessments, fines, fees, and myriads of ways that Legislators and Executives are various levels work their best to take money from citizens pockets, whether those constituents agree to the plan or not. Our indirect election process works, usually. However, Senator Reid and Representative Pelosi did their best at subscribing to the Obamacare process and now our highest Court didn't want to deal with taxes, just like our Secretary of the Treasury. How are they going to get money if people take the Geithner way and don't buy insurance and just pay the taxes by penalty? We live in a strange world that is the real world of everyone out to get the next person before they are had by that person.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:55 a.m.

    Dave,

    An auto insurance mandate is a regulation of commercial activity--namely, owning and operating a vehicle. The Constitution allows for regulation of commercial activity. A health insurance mandate is regulating what commercial activity? Living? A majority of the Justices agree with me, but passed this mandate as a "tax" instead. Stupid semantics that will just open the door for future Congressional mandates disguised as taxes. What's next? Gym taxes? Broccoli taxes? American made car taxes?

    one old man,
    30% profit for insurance companies, huh? With that kind of margin, I'd expect to see people clamoring to start their own insurance companies, if it's such a gold mine industry. I'd be interested to see your source on those numbers.

  • Ross Madison, AL
    June 28, 2012 10:58 a.m.

    Regardless of decision by the SCOTUS, Obamacare is bad policy, ignoring the natural flow of life all to satisfy gratification of the dems will destroy everything we care about in society, Hyperbole aside, this is bad policy, totally unsustainable, God help us.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    We are becoming more like Europe or our neighbor to the north, Canada, with basically socialized health care for anyone that wants to come through our borders. We will take care of the whole world and get rid of our free enterprise, which then gets rid of our healthcare through taxes. Then, why would people want to come here? They can still get free education that some tax payers pay for through property taxes or equivalent. The type of Soviet Socialist Republic didn't really work and we spent billions and trillions of dollars to fight that type of system. Now that friendly Europe has blended in with each other's social issues they are falling apart as they can't afford all the social programs that some of those countries had during socialism. We aren't a country with the rich fighting the poor. We have a system of people that work and find ways to work. Some jobs have moved overseas due to politics and governmental regulations and others have surfaced to find new ways, through inventive people. Immigration is another part of the process that government hasn't dealt with as those people want elections again, now.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:03 a.m.

    I am really enjoying the angst of the right wingers here. Keep it up, but 20 years from now this measure will be in place, benefiting many. I would have preferred single payer, but I'll take what I can get.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 28, 2012 11:03 a.m.

    Largest tax increase in world history! Hmm" Thought our taxes wouldn't go up a dime?

  • andyjaggy American Fork, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    Here is how I see it. We already have a socialist health care system, we already pay for all of the people that hospitals are legally bound to treat, they CAN'T turn them away. We are already paying for them. We now have a law that says they have to chip in and pay their fair share, how is this a bad thing?

    Add on top of that all the other good things the law does, no rescinding coverage, no lifetime caps on coverage, no denying children coverage, no denying coverage for pre-existing conditions (I have fallen into that one before), children staying on their parents plans until they are 26, preventative care covered, etc...

    Combine all those things together and I feel like this is a win for the country. Obviously others feel differently.

    Also for anyone saying that Obama has manipulated the courts and influcneced their decision consider this. This ruling is only going to make it that much harder for Obama to get elected, it has lit a raging fire under the conservatives to get him out of office this November, in reality the supreme court hasn't done him no favor.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    I have lost complete faith in the United States and I fear for my kids and grandkids. The America they are going to inherit will be far different than their parents and grandparents. The "new America" will be a mirror of what you see in Europe today with a single payer health care system complete with watered down coverage and of course the "death panels" which equates to having politicians deciding whether grandpa is worth getting that cancer treatment or heart transplant based on his overall "worth" to society. But what's done is done and Obama won. I expect this victory to propel Obama to an easy victory in the upcoming election simply because this ruling validates everything the man has done... right or wrong ... Obama has won and the American people are now entering a new world never imagined by our founders. The federal government is all - powerful now and I expect a second Obama term to take full advantage of that reality with all sorts of rulings and taxes and mandates... say goodbye to individual freedom and your individual rights. America will become Europe in 4 years - complete with bankruptcy. Time to focus on family.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 28, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    So John Roberts was great yesterday and evil today?

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    This is very similar to the Congress forcing banks to make loans to people that couldn't pay for their new property and then defaulted or worse yet, the banks say they went broke. What a shame we can now go through a similar process with health insurance. Doctors and nurses have ethics codes and now that more of these professionals will start working for companies that their corporate officers not necessarily fall into those same ethics rules. It will still be a person eat person world. Some people want everything for nothing, without working because they are entitled to it. Congress and even Presidents have entitled more and more people to go on the dole without lifting too many fingers. I think of what our Constitution, Flag and government establishment has meant to our Forefathers and as we approach the 4th of July and think of that day in 1776, I believe those people would not be happy with this type of sentiment from the Court that hadn't yet been established. Politics will help decide our fate but those in the military who fought and served for our country are people all around us who may be ashamed.

  • Built2Last Provo, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    For those who are cheering this overreach by the government, I have to ask are you that dense?? Do you not understand that Obama and his congress have added the most expensive entitlement program in the history of this country? Do you not realize there is no way to pay for this unless taxes are raised in a major way? Are you not paying half your paycheck in taxes already...you want to pay more? Of course some of the candy in this legislation sounds very appealing. Do you not realize that everything comes at a price (a fact Obama seems to be completely oblivious to)? Why? Because it isn't his money. And what of all the other entitlement programs that have proven totally unsustainable and are on the brink of bankruptcy? Do you believe this will be any different? Do you believe the government uses your money more efficiently than you can? All I can say is WAKE UP!!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:17 a.m.

    @photographermom
    "Embarrassed utahn let's see how proud you are when you are paying thru the teeth for your new beloved tax."

    A tax that only applies if you don't have insurance? A tax that isn't even enforcable? A tax to cover the cost those uninsured people pass on to insurance buyers when they go to the emergency room? I don't know about embarrassed utahn but I have insurance, I'm taxed 0 dollars by the mandate.

    @SLCgal
    The small business doesn't have to cover insurance unless they have at least 50 employers, so that's not an issue. As for the waitress mom? Starting in 2014 Obamacare gives out subsidies to those with lower incomes to help them purchase insurance. I imagine she would qualify.

    @Fitz
    "The individual mandate was found to be unconstitutional. "

    That's not true, if it were it'd be struck down because unconstitutional things would be ruled out by the court.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    got to love the fear mongering "patriots" of the far right declaring the death of our country, nice to know that such "patriots" have so much faith in their fellow Americans.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:25 a.m.

    All the more reason to vote come November!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    I am happy that my 21 year old daughter can now have coverage til age 26. That is actually a really good thing. My worry - and it should be a worry for all liberals or conservatives - is the fact that this new "TAX" is going to grow and grow. Take a long look at Europe and the cost of socialized medicine is enormous and ever growing. The cost of this will be passed along to small business and all business which means a business's ability to hire new employees just got alot harder and much more expensive starting in 2014. This translates to business's simply cutting their work force to accommodate this new TAX and all the mandates that go along with it. Having worked for several business's like Novell and IHC I understand how they determine whether to hire/fire it is all based on expenses - Obamacare will be a HUGE expense that is mandated for all business starting in 2014. This is a stark fact that we will ALL have to face. The bottom line - the US workforce will have to shrink as companies run super lean.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 28, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    Thank you Mitt Romney for inspiring ACA!

  • Whatever Springville, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    Built2Last, JWB, patriot, etc, could you please be more dramatic? "Oh it's the end of the country as we know it" blah blah blah. If this country can survive eight years of the idiot Bush and his handlers, we can survive anything...

    I bet Glenn Beck will cry about it... Oh wait, does he still have a job?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 28, 2012 11:37 a.m.

    All the more reason for Utahns to vote in November for a candidate you were already going to vote for...

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:37 a.m.

    Today's poll....

    60% of Americans FAVOR the Supreme Court ruling
    38% Oppose it.

    Conservative Utahans - with it's solid Republican majority but less than 0.98% of the total U.S. Population can scream foul until the cows come home, doesn't matter come November.

    Romney would have done better in the general election to hang his hat on HIS Healthcare program.

    Instead - Obama will go down in history for getting re-elected by it.

    Sad twist of Iraony....

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 28, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    "The bottom line - the US workforce will have to shrink as companies run super lean."

    And startups who can run more efficiently will steal those shrinking companies' lunch money.

    Only the dumbest managers in America will see this and think "gee, I have to cut staff".

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:40 a.m.

    Actually - I can see this motivating liberals as much as conservatives. Liberals now understand they are close to the finish line to now turning America into a socialist state which was the goal all along. I doubt liberals are going to shy away from the fight now being so close to their goal. So the question for all is this? What will America be like in 20 years now that we have become Europe? Take a long look at Europe today - Greece and so many other countries are dying under the heavy hand of socialism. Their economies are bankrupt and looking for bail out in desperation. Does anyone think America will be any different? The American people are now a liberal majority - like Europe - and like Europe will continue to elect socialist presidents - like France just did. Say goodbye to personal freedom and get used to the BIG federal government controlling everything in your life. I have a feeling that many liberals today are going to be wishing they could turn back the hands of time in a few years after they see the scary state of their once prosperous America. Unemployment at 20% here we come.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    June 28, 2012 11:45 a.m.

    A great day for America and thank you to a courageous President and Chief Justice. I did not see this coming and I had even resigned myself to wishful thinking. "Well, when President Obama is reelected, he'll go at it harder next time,--single payer." This is a big, big win for Obama and an even bigger win for America, as today we began to see character returned to our Supreme Court. Obamacare is not perfect and we will need to tweak and fix until the weekend free clinics are a thing of the past and poor children have a chance to grow up without a mouthful of poison where their teeth used to be. But Universal Health Care is now with us and it's not going anywhere. Wow! What a week! The BCS is history and Obamacare is alive!

  • COGITOERGONIHILSVM Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 28, 2012 11:50 a.m.

    These comments are hilarious. Especially the ones predicting doom for our country. Haha. Hilarious.

  • twells Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    If we think the Congress will take of this issue we are sadly mistaken. The Congress failed this Nation to allow such a monster to be signed into law. Where will the money come from? We are broke. How is any of this possible? Congress as a whole should be fired. Where are the leaders for term limits? Why have we become helpless and hopeless. The only groups that will benifit from this disaster are the insurance compaines and those in their hip pocket. Where will all the doctors come from? What a sad, sad day.

  • Leopard Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    The so-called liberals and leftist are celebrating this Scotus decision. I think that is hilarious. This is the most regressive tax passed in decades. Every single American falls under this tax, call it a penalty, whatever, it is a tax, massive new revenues goes to gov. The government could not raise enough money trying to find those scarce millionaires to cover even a few days of their deficit, so now every American is going to be sending money to the government, or their boss or their parents will have to send it, one way or another, your paycheck juat got hit with a big tax and if you sell your home you are going to send a huge check to uncle sam. You are celebrating this? Since I have a Health Saving Accout, it will go up some, but for every American, 50% who do not pay any fed tax they are now now going to be sending money to Uncle Sam. This is regressive redistribution of taxes. Sweet, pay your fair share, but the gov will spend it on anything they like, your health care just got iffy!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    It is absolutely amazing how much conservative is being pumped out here. When will these people start trying to learn even the most basic facts before spouting off?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 28, 2012 11:57 a.m.

    I need to make a correction to something I wrote earlier. I said the 30% insurance companies take off the top of our premiums are "profit." That was not correct. The 30% is operating costs -- although medicare's operating costs are much less -- only about 10% of the 30% is profit.

    Sorry. I try to fact check before I post, but sometimes I slip up.

  • Leopard Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    Indians and Chinese are really celebrating this. They spent 70 years in their long socialist and communist nightmares, they are set for a big advance in their positions in the world economy. Since things move much more quickly these days, I'm guessing 20 years before the complete collapse of the USA. We are toast.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 28, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    Lets review what the ACA has done, and the contradicitons it contains.

    First, they claim that they will make insurance cheaper by mandating that everybody get insurance, but then take the group that uses insurance the least and lets them stay on their parents insurance, which costs the parents more, but is less than their own policy.

    Next, the ACA was supposed to lower the cost of insurance (not care), but the ACA added new mandates to insurance policies. Each of those mandates will raise the price of insurance. How are more people supposed to buy insurance if the Government mandates keep raising the price?

    The ACA's clause for the individual mandate was sold to the public as being a fine, not a tax. If the SCOTUS has declared it a tax, then does that mean that the politicians who wrote the bill lied? If they lied, do you really trust them to do what is right?

    If this is truely modeled after Romneycare, have you looked at the skyrocketing costs that Massachusetts has seen for their government plan? Who is going to pay for this once the costs outpace the initial budget idea?

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 12:44 p.m.

    One old man,

    10% profit, huh? Again, cite your sources. As for insurance company costs vs. medicare costs, how familiar are you with either? Any idea about how, say, overhead costs are accounted for in government entities vs. private?

  • Stephen Kent Ehat Lindon, UT
    June 28, 2012 12:47 p.m.

    "Constitutional Principles of State and Local Taxation." That was the title of a class I took at law school. My cynical take? If anything exists or occurs, it likely can -- and will -- be taxed.

    Now, as a matter of federal taxation policy, it would appear that if there is anything that you do NOT do, you can be taxed for it.

    Say you do not purchase health insurance. Here comes the tax man.

    You do not eat asparagus. Fork over the cash.

    You do not buy a Chevy Volt. Check the "pay up" box on your Form 1040.

    You do not lose those extra 25 pounds. Loosen your purse strings.

    You do not sign a pledge to support gay marriage. Tax you.

    You do not relinquish your gun. Pay up.

    The power to tax is the power to destroy. Query: What here is being destroyed?

  • Nanook of the North Camarillo, CA
    June 28, 2012 1:04 p.m.

    I laugh so much at those of my fellow Mormons who think this ruling is part of "the Constitution hanging by a thread". I'm sorry, but when the Constitution REALLY started hanging by a thread was somewhere in between Nixon's trying to end-run around Congress with dirty money and Watergate, Reagan's end-run around Congress with the Iran-Contra affair, the PATRIOT Act under Bush the Younger, and the Citizens United decision. Where was Jon McNaughton and his so-called "art" then?

    Seriously, anyone who's truly read, truly understood, and truly believed in the Book of Mormon shouldn't be voting Republican at all, and it astounds me that so many American Mormons think that voting for the party that's in favour of prideful riches and demeaning the poor is A Good Idea.

  • Nanook of the North Camarillo, CA
    June 28, 2012 1:15 p.m.

    Oh, one old man? I WORK for one of America's largest health insurance companies. Our profit margin is in the 4-5% range, and our competitors are in the same boat. Our claims ratio (what's the percentage of claims paid over premiums collected) varies in different businesses, but it's often around 80%, which means about 15% operating costs. So, yeah, people, please get your facts straight before making stupid arguments.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    Some wind will come out of Romney's sails. Romney has stated that states are ok to mandate insurance on their own, inferring that it is not legal or constitutional for the feds to do it. So what is now? is Obama Care a good thing or is it a bad thing and why?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    June 28, 2012 1:22 p.m.

    @Fitness Freak;

    Romney's standing by with a pair of scissors to cut that thread.

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    June 28, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    And you thought 2010 was a drastic change. Wait. The Supreme Court has spoken and this is the law of the land. Now the people will speak and there will be a new law.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    June 28, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    A good day for the United States of America.

    We are finally entering the noble circle of developed nations. Nations where the welfare of all citizens is a concern of all citizens.

    Call it socialism, call it whatever you want, I will call call it social justice and accept that I'm the keeper of my brother.

    I'm pleasantly surprised with Chief Justice Roberts.

  • wrz Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 1:39 p.m.

    @Badger55: The solicitor general argued it was a penalty, not a tax. Obama said it was a penalty, not a tax. How in the world is it now a tax? All the more reason for a change in the white house."

    Couldn't agree more.

    We have a clear example of how the Supreme Court has taken over the Legislative and Executive branches of government. The Court has rewritten an act of Congress by replacing the word 'penalty' with the words 'tax.' It's that simple. If the Congress and the President wanted the word 'tax' in the law, they would have put the word 'tax' in the law. But they expressly did not want the word 'tax' in the law. Both the President and Democrat members of the Congress stated over and over again that the 'penalty' was not a 'tax,' no way, no how. Period. It is a sad day in America when the Judicial Branch of government is loaded with stupidity.

    The Congress has the authority to levy taxes to pay expenses to run the government. When it expressly did not put the word 'tax' in a piece of legislation, they mean just that... not something else.

  • cthp522 CORDOVA, TN
    June 28, 2012 2:11 p.m.

    Villains’ Payback
    Some Democrats have painted the industry as the enemy of efforts to improve the
    health-care system. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has called insurers “villains,”
    WellPoint head Angela Braly was hauled before Congress in February to explain
    what Chairman Henry Waxman called “a breathtaking increase” in customer
    premiums, and Obama warned the industry in June not to undermine the law’s
    implementation.

    Many of the insurer campaign contributions are aimed at congressional Democrats’
    top Republicans rivals. WellPoint, Humana and Aetna Inc. gave $10,000 to House
    Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, who would probably take Pelosi’s job as
    speaker if Republicans win the House. Representative Joe Barton of Texas, the
    top Republican on the Energy and Commerce Committee headed by Waxman, got $4,500
    from WellPoint. Many of the other contributions are to Republican candidates
    trying to knock off vulnerable first-term Democrats.

    Banking on Republicans
    The campaign funding numbers represent a shift forinsurers, who previously gave
    to Republicans by only a 2-to-1 margin.

    WellPoint, based in Indianapolis, favored Republicans the most among the
    companies. Not a single dollar of its $144,000 that went to federal candidates
    and political committees in July was given to a Democrat, the records show.

  • mcdugall Layton, UT
    June 28, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    The dearth of logic in the arguments against the Affordable Care act is disturbing. I believe that it would be accurate to claim that no one who has posted on this blog is a constitutional scholar nor has a JD.

    Arguments suggesting that the government does not have the power to levy a tax against individuals is laughable. Obama is a socialists? Then the definition of socialist needs to be re-defined. Romney against the mandate? He pushed through Mass Health which is the model for the Affordability Health Care Act. It's difficult to keep up where Romney stands on a whole assortment of topics.

    True conservatives should take this as imperfect legislation to hold people accountable. The majority of American don't approve this legislation for two reasons:
    1. They simply do not understand the law.
    2. They already receive healthcare at the expense of others, taxpayers and policy holders, and don't want to pay their fair share.

    The legislation is not perfect but its a move in the right direction.

  • cthp522 CORDOVA, TN
    June 28, 2012 2:25 p.m.

    PART 1 OF THIS POST:
    This is what the Supreme Ruling will do for Womens and others.

    Affordable Care Act offers women.1
    * Being a woman is no longer a "pre-existing condition." Yes, women were denied
    coverage for just being women before the Affordable Care Act was law.

    * Insurance companies can't charge you more for being a woman either. Before
    the Affordable Care Act was law, women were sometimes charged up to 150% more
    than men of the same age.

    * Breast cancer screenings, cervical cancer screenings, domestic violence
    counseling and screenings and a whole bunch of other preventive care measures
    must be covered by insurance companies.

    * Birth control is now covered by health insurance.
    * Children can stay on their parents' health insurance until they're 26 years
    old. And if you want to have kids, the law will help you get pre-natal care and
    counseling and help with breast feeding and supplies too.

  • cthp522 CORDOVA, TN
    June 28, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    Part 2:
    What the Supreme Court Ruling will do for womens and other.
    And here are some of the important benefits for everyone.2
    * Insurance companies can't take away your coverage if you become too sick.
    * You cannot be denied insurance coverage because of a pre-existing condition.
    * Seniors receive a 50 percent discount on prescription drugs when they hit the
    "donut hole."

    * Small businesses get tax credits to purchase insurance.
    * There are no more lifetime limits on your coverage.
    * 15 million more people will receive coverage because of expanded access to
    Medicaid.

    * Millions of Americans are going to receive tax credits to help them get
    insurance--people who wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise.

    * 12 million seniors are currently receiving free preventative care through
    Medicare

  • cthp522 CORDOVA, TN
    June 28, 2012 2:38 p.m.

    Bloggers on this site should stop guessing about the Supreme's Ruling on Healthcare and what it means for American's. The Media was confuse as to what it ment and you listen to them and trying to plug in what you think it means is just wrong.

    Some you think it a TAX and some of you think its Government owned and calling it socialist which is also wrong.

    I guess no one read Justice Robert's explation regarding the Tax,maybe you should HEALTHCARE.GOV. and read what Justice Robert said about the Tax part.

  • JimInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 2:39 p.m.

    Health insurance does not equate to health care. Healthcare is a personal responsibility, right diet, right living, exercise, etc; Those things that actually help a person maintain their health.

    Insurance is to help pay for health crisis intervention. The mandate requires everyone to have insurance. Those that practice good health care will be subsidizing medical costs of those that have not practiced good health care. Certainly this generalization does not apply to everyone, there are exceptions, but generally speaking there are too many people in the USA that have poor health because they have not taken care of their health.

  • wrz Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 2:43 p.m.

    @OneAmerican: "Eventually costs will be so high, the rationing will begin."

    True... Furthermore, the medical profession, (Doctors, etc.) will have their fees cut to the point where they can just barely eke out a living. This will force future doctors to strongly consider other professions. Or, we will see a heavy infux of poorly trained doctors from foreign countries.

    We have a living, breathing example of what happens when the government takes over healthcare... Elderly folk now have a hard time finding a primary care doctor who will take them as a new patient if they are 65 or older and/or on Medicare. Why? Because the doctors' fees under Medicare are severely cut by the government.

    Soon you will not be able to find a good doctor to treat your ailments. Soon what has been dubbed the best healthcare in the entire world will be reduced to the level you might find in the middle of Africa.

    This very day, our country took a giant step toward a socialist country. Mark this day on your calendar in big 'Red' letters.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    June 28, 2012 2:48 p.m.

    My conservative friends have been squawking about this all day. I frankly haven't had this much fun since Al Gore got the Nobel Peace Prize.

    The hilarious thing is that the individual mandate was the idea of Republicans - including Orrin Hatch who sponsored a bill containing it in the 1990s. Mitt Romney is also on the record praising the idea.

    Yet when you talk about the individual parts of this bill without attributing them to Obama, most people in Utah are all in favor of it.

    This is a great victory for the American people.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 28, 2012 2:48 p.m.

    We the people have been educated, brainwashed, and given welfare, by a high spending government.

    Like an unseen decaying tooth, we'll soon feel an ache that will bring us to our knees, and we'll yearn for the good ole days.

    We will not see our taxes go up a single dime. Ha! Ha!

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 2:55 p.m.

    @atl134 let me try to explain. When somebody needs medical attention but doesn't have a job because our economy stinks and can't get insurance who do you think will flip the bill? The IRS can't go after them they don't have an income hence your taxes and my taxes get raised to pay for those who can't!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 28, 2012 2:58 p.m.

    Good to know we have a government of "limited power".

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:01 p.m.

    @nanook of the north, I get so sick of democrats using the book of Mormon as an argument. Go and read President Bensons talk on the constitution and listen to what he has to say on socialism and our nation. Do democrats go to their local meetings with the mantra "Jesus would be a democrat?". Seriously I want to know!

  • Ignominious Sandy, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    I guess we'll soon find out if I am right that the majority of Utahns only believe themselves to be limited government conservatives. In reality they love government intervention into our lives. It's like a comfy blanket to protect them from individual responsibility.

    I don't believe the Governor or the people have the guts to "just say no" to the drug of "federal" money and control.

    IWNC

    p.s. Orrin & Mitt blah, blah, blah Maybe they'll try to make changes but we'll still be left with more government on our backs. If it gets fully repealed without being replaced with a GOP version I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 28, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    This thread is hiiiiiiilarious to read. Didn't see this comin did ya? You were wrong about the constitutionality of the law and you are wrong about it's consequences. Politicaly this is a massive win for Obama and could be the final nail in Romneys hopes.

    Will this fire up the conservative base? Of course it will, but what are they going to do now..light their hair on fire? They all ready hated Obama and were going to work tirelessly to defeat him. Nothing new to see here just move on. On the other hand Obama has a new platform to describe the benefits..and millions of folks who have been helped by the bill to this point to tell their story. Romney on the other hand has come up with something better in health care, defend his approval of an immiration law that is unconstitutional,defend his opposition to equal pay for women.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:19 p.m.

    @worf

    who exactly do you think " the government" is?

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:25 p.m.

    So President Obama has spoken about the "broken" healthcare system in the U.S. President Obama has spoken about the volume of fraud in our healthcare system. So the first chance he gets, he jacks up our taxes, and puts more and more and more money into our broken healthcare system.

    There is another way to obtain healthcare for all.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:27 p.m.

    The Obama administration argued that the mandate was not a tax. The SCOTUS corrected him and said it was a tax and that congress has the ability to levy taxes. They also said that the ACA cannot mandate Medicaid standards for individual states. In essence SCOTUS upheld congresses right to tax and gutted ACA by its inability to regulate point-of-care criteria. The court also did not tell Obama how to make the ACA affordable, which it is not as it stands.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:32 p.m.

    screenname,

    "An auto insurance mandate is a regulation of commercial activity--namely, owning and operating a vehicle. "

    Talk about semantics. Me driving my kids to the park is no more a commercial activity than breathing.

    Healthcare is a basic necessity. Absolutely everyone will have contact with healthcare in their lives. Those that can afford healthcare already have insurance. Those that don't, go the emergency department and typically default on thousands of dollars worth of service. We are already paying for them. This new plan should reduce the incidence of people using the emergency department as primary care.

    Nobody has been able to show me where their freedom is being compromised. This means that freedom is just a straw man argument.

  • RedneckLefty St. George, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:36 p.m.

    Wow. I had no idea how fervently Republicans were in their dedication to opening up the Medicare prescription drug donut hole, taking insurance away from children with pre-existing conditions, and kicking college students off of their parents' policies. And I'm still trying to figure out how people on these message boards call for those things and still consider themselves patriots and Christians.

  • ouisc Farmington, UT
    June 28, 2012 3:41 p.m.

    Not many folks are arguing whether or not healthcare for everyone is a noble goal. I would suspect we all want that.

    The problem is that this mandate is an example of spending other people's money in the most inefficient way possible. I expect more from my government.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 28, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    Thank you John Roberts!

    You acted like Solomon and by doing that, you insured that the Republicans would take the House, the Senate and the Presidency in November.

    When you said that elections have consequences, you reminded us that the PEOPLE need to choose a Congress and a President who will work within the Constitution.

    When you said that the health care act could TAX us if we did not have health insurance, you showed us that Obama made the greatest political mistake of any President in history. He raised taxes on the majority of Americans when he said that he would not raise taxes on ANYONE who made less than $250,000 per year.

    Thank you, John Roberts.

    Had you sided with the other conservative justices, the Democrats would have had ammunition to help them hold on to Congress and the Presidency. You changed all of that.

    Now, it's up to the PEOPLE to vote out the liberals who passed this law and the President who gave America the largest tax increase in history.

  • Igualmente Mesa, AZ
    June 28, 2012 3:50 p.m.

    Not a tax on income, but a tax on behavior?

  • Igualmente Mesa, AZ
    June 28, 2012 3:51 p.m.

    Sheriff Joe will have to ask for their medical card instead of their green card! Lol!

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    June 28, 2012 4:00 p.m.

    First, see the law--the fine isn't going to be collected. This is why we READ. To those who complain about paying for people's health care, you have already been doing so. The hospitals cannot turn anyone away from the emergency room. You pay higher premiums so they can accept them, but the insurer doesn't tell you how much it is or if your bill accounts for only your "share" or more for their "inconvenience". This is why, with the ACA, your premiums will go down. And you will also not have to worry if your health takes a downturn. Further, FYI, Medicaid does, if there is an income level in the home for the household reached, according to a formula, there can be a copay, so some levels are not free. Don't get your knickers in a twist, some of you, it isn't coming out of your back pocket! Try to remember, a healthy person is more likely to be working, and if that healthy person stays that way, he/she can take a job even if it's one that doesn't offer medical insurance, if it's available through other means.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    June 28, 2012 4:10 p.m.

    When I heard the news this morning, I was absolutely furious; but, then I realized that what I was feeling would motivate me to do something about Congress and about the President. I realized that if the decision had been different, that the liberals would be motivated to do something.

    Just as Mike Richards said, "THANK YOU, JOHN ROBERTS!". Now the Conservatives know what happens when a run-amok President and a run-amok Congress passes legislation that 59% of the people do not want.

    John Roberts warned us that elections have consequences. What a profound statement. By voting as he did, he, by himself, set the course for America in the middle of an election cycle. He, by himself, did more for the Conservatives in this Country than anyone else in our history.

    Now, Obama cannot deny that he taxed us more than any other President in history.

    Now. Pelosi has to admit that passing the bill without proper debate will turn the tide of politics in America - perhaps forever.

    Now, Reid knows that reconciliation was the biggest mistake of his life.

    Now, the people know that THEY must be vigilant and that THEY must choose wisely.

  • Nanook of the North Camarillo, CA
    June 28, 2012 4:18 p.m.

    @photographermom, while I sustained President Benson as a prophet, seer, and revelator, I never sustained him as a politician or a political commentator. Many of his warnings about socialism and communism were bang on; many, however, were based on rank ignorance. He attributed a lot of things to "socialism" that have nothing to do with real socialism; a common occurrence in American political commentary.

    Besides, trust me, Obamacare is NOT socialism. I AM a socialist. I know many socialists, and have argued and hammered out policy with other socialists. I VOTE socialist back in my home country of Canada (look up the New Democratic Party, now the "official opposition"/2nd place party in Parliament). Obama is NOT a socialist. Obamacare is NOT socialist policy. And the Democratic Party is NOT socialist. (As far as I'm concerned, the Democratic party is just another "wing" of the "party of the rich"; they're just not as obtuse and ignorant as the "far-right" wing of that party, i.e. the GOP.) Most Americans don't have the first clue regarding what socialism is and isn't.

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    June 28, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish
    Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the
    general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
    ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    The Preamble of the Constitution of the Untited States, copied from the one I have in pdf, tells us that one of the purposes of this document is to pomote the general Welfare. We will, of course, argue about all of what this Preamble means, but the general Welfare, without health, is nonexistent. If one is sick, or, worse, dying or dead, there is no welfare, general or specific, to be had, that would be worth much. Does this clarify, perhaps, why it meant so much to our sitting President, to Senator Kennedy and many others in the last forty, fifty years--of both parties--and why VP Biden felt the way he did when it passed? I, having a chronic condition and being a cancer survivor, feel, as Biden did, although I might have been a little less colorful.

  • Nanook of the North Camarillo, CA
    June 28, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    @photographermom, as for using the Book of Mormon, read it carefully. Count how many times prophets call on the people to repent, and count how many times they tell them to repent of specific sins. By far the largest number of references are to being prideful with riches and not sharing their wealth with the poor and needy. And if you pay attention to what Jesus did and said in the NT Gospels, again, he says a lot more about sharing wealth and how being rich is basically A Bad Thing than he does about just about ANYTHING else. So don't tell me you're sick of me telling the truth about our scriptures and about what Our Lord and Saviour and the prophets of the Book of Mormon did or said. Trust me, I'm quite sick of the opposite. Remember, that brown-skinned guy who fed the poor and hung out with sinners and gave out free healthcare and was against war and for peace? That wasn't Obama. That was Jesus.

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 28, 2012 4:30 p.m.

    The far right has really had to work hard lately to try to spin themselves a silver lining.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 28, 2012 4:34 p.m.

    Nanook of the North,

    "....Most Americans don't have the first clue regarding what socialism is and isn't."

    Thanks. That needed to be said. Since Obama took office, the terms socialist and marxist have been glibly hurled around right wing extremists who couldn't give you the textbook definitions of those terms.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2012 4:40 p.m.

    Dear embarrassed Utahn,
    The Supreme Court said parts of ACA were legal, not sensible or fundable. Obama does not know how to pay for the Unaffordable Care Act or how to make individual states spend Medicaid money according to a national standard. Without that the ACA is in the fantasy category. At least Romney knows elementary accounting, something Awesome Obama the community organizer (Did he ever have to balance a check book?) missed on his way to the WH. You should be embarrassed.

  • photographermom South Jordan, UT
    June 28, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    @nanook I am all for sharing and helping and when the time comes to be held accountable we can all say as a nation that we did these things not because it was from the goodness of our heart but because your dirty politics forced us too. Does that sound like Gods plan to you?

  • Owen Heber City, UT
    June 28, 2012 4:59 p.m.

    @photographermom
    I get so sick of (Utah) Repubs using the book of Mormon as an argument. Go and read anything Jesus said. It will, of course, match the BOM writers. The undebatable message of that book is the dangers of socioeconomic inequality that inevitably leads to pride and war and destruction.

    Do democrats go to their local meetings with the mantra "Jesus would be a democrat?" Nope. A ridiculous thought that he would align with either American political party, but would probably find principles compatible with his teachings in the platforms of the various parties. Here's a challenge: try to identify a part of the dem platform he'd like. My guess would be taking care of the sick and exhalting the poor in that the rich are made low.

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    June 28, 2012 5:13 p.m.

    Instead of second-guessing the Affordable Care Act, those of you who think it is the Devil's work, have the courage to go to your favorite search engine and look up one of the websites with the actual details. You could start with the White House site, or one of the government ones if you would prefer.

    Further, understand: if you can't afford car insurance or proper maintenance for a vehicle, you can take a bus, ride with someone else, or walk. If your car dies for want of proper care or lack of fuel or other things, it's a shame. But if a person lacks food, medicine, health care, cancer/tumor/injury care, that human being, flesh and blood like you, will die. In pain, in agony, maybe slowly, maybe outside, maybe cold or dehydrated or overheated, or alone, and feeling it the way you would. Cars feel nothing. Now, I put this to you. Can you in good conscience, not concern yourself with this, when your government has created a way to help prevent this from happening, and you know it isn't going to happen to a stranger--or to you, or family?

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    June 28, 2012 5:13 p.m.

    @ Nanook of the North

    Just to let you know that I agree 100% with you. I see the gospel as a call for social justice and Jesus as our model.

    In Socialism, Yes, I also agree. Not a bad word but hopefully a wonderful reality someday.
    "The whole group of believers was united,heart and soul; no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, as everything they owned was held in common" Acts 4:32

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    June 28, 2012 5:15 p.m.

    "I have lost complete faith in the United States and I fear for my kids and grandkids." --Patriot

    If you don't like it you can leave. The rest of us will rest a little easier knowing we won't have to choose between the house and the kids' medical bills.

  • kargirl Sacramento, CA
    June 28, 2012 5:38 p.m.

    I have a sister-in-law who lived in Canada many years ago and she took the time to explain to me how the system there actually worked. She said most folks here don't really understand, and don't even seem to try to learn, how it works, so there are a lot of misconceptions. But when she explained it, I could see how it was more sensible than ours, and it would behoove us to work towards a single-payer system. One thing she did mention was that there was much less litigation. She told me that it helps bring down medical costs for the docs there, and it makes sense...even a strong Democrat has to think that some suits are more about revenge than anything else.

  • Gregorio Norco, CA
    June 28, 2012 6:20 p.m.

    January 15, 1991, The President of BYU gave a devotional address remarking on the Constitution and the Restoration. The words of his talk and what 5 people decided for 300 million citizens is remarkable! Even more so, were the words this morning from Rush L. on talk radio at 9:46 am: "Our constitution is hanging by a thread!"

  • PA Gardener Towanda, PA
    June 28, 2012 8:07 p.m.

    I think I can read between the lines. SCOTUS is telling the people that they can vote for their own bondage. If you want to change bad legislation, you do it at the ballot box.

  • Stephen Kent Ehat Lindon, UT
    June 28, 2012 8:21 p.m.

    A close and careful reading of the opinion of the court may well justify the conclustion that five justices of the Supreme Court of the United States actually struck down the individual mandate as unconstitutional.

    The method by which the majority allowed ObamaCare to pass constitutional muster was to recast the law as something it was not at the time it was passed, namely, as a law that constitutes a tax on the uninsured.

    The political ramifications of the decision may well make ObamaCare an albatross around the next not only of President Obama's tenure but around the necks of all those who voted for the law.

    We just might well have an uprising in 2012 that makes 2010 look like -- well -- a children's tea party. It might be that now the adults will step forward, ready to dump the tea in the drink and a goodly group of politicians with it.

    Congress, indeed, can tax to its heart's content. And voters can react. And likely they will.

    The court called a spade a spade.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    June 28, 2012 8:52 p.m.

    Thank you supreme court, you just put Romney in the White House.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 28, 2012 9:23 p.m.

    Gregorio
    Norco, CA

    Your political opinion is based on a radio entertainer and a religious program. If that is as deep as the republicans go I fear for the GOP.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    June 28, 2012 9:47 p.m.

    @Marxist:

    :I am really enjoying the angst of the right wingers here." In theory Marxism is a left wing movement. In practice, all through the 20th century it has been a right wing movement. Stalin, Mao, North Korea, the Shining Path guerillas. In 20 years we may see that the practice of this has been far more right wing that anything that Republicans could have come up with.

    Clinton may not be the only double agent among the Democrats.

  • donn layton, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:08 p.m.

    Go Romney

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2012 10:29 p.m.

    I've noticed that in the last few days the "under the fold" DN stories have been all about the "poor, unfortunate" who will suffer if the Supreme Court struck down "Obamacare". What about the people who actually work for a living? Is there any chance you guys could just leave us alone for once?It's one crisis after another- healthcare, global warming and on and on. No one in my family has been to a Doctor in years except for routine checkups- are we the exception or the rule? I don't mind chipping off some tax money for the truly needy but let's be honest - this is just one more "bureaucrat employment" program designed to increase the need for "make work" bureaucrats"
    I wish I had some money-making prospects outside of this joke of a Country but I don't so I'll stay here and contend unwillingly with the Monster that's been created.

  • wrz Salt Lake City, UT
    June 29, 2012 2:07 a.m.

    @dave

    "Me driving my kids to the park is no more a commercial activity than breathing."

    If you spend money to drive your kids you have engaged in commercial activity.

    "Healthcare is a basic necessity."

    It is not a basic necessity. There are societies throughout the world and across the centuries that had no health care except what they could devise as an individual or family.

    "Those that don't, go the emergency department and typically default on thousands of dollars worth of service."

    Poor people don't have to go to the hospital for help. There are available free healthcare facilities across this country. Further, if hospital emergency rooms would use common sense it could screen people at entry and send those with simple 'sniffles' to a free clinic in town. Hospitals don't have to treat a hangnail as a serious heart attack.

    "Nobody has been able to show me where their freedom is being compromised. This means that freedom is just a straw man argument."

    The court has swung the door wide open. They now can tell you to join an exercise club and buy and eat broccoli or pay a penalty.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 29, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    Do you liberals realize that the ACA is not about actual healthcare, and that many of its provisions make care more expensive. The ACA is about insurance, nothing more. Have you asked yourself this simple question: If the government wants to make healthcare cheaper, why are they going after the middleman instead of end provider?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 29, 2012 9:07 a.m.

    @wrz
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "Healthcare is a basic necessity."

    It is not a basic necessity. There are societies throughout the world and across the centuries that had no health care except what they could devise as an individual or family.

    ==============

    Fine.

    Go live in Mogadishu or Rwanda.

    This is AMERICA.

    We don't want your vision of America.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 29, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" and any other liberal out there. If healthcare is a basic necessity, then what isn't?

    Food is also a necessity but we don't mandate that you buy food.

    Shelter is also a necessity but we don't mandate that.

    Clothes are also a necessity (yes you could live nude if you wanted to, but you would be confined to your house because of decency laws).

    Dental care is nearly equal to healthcare, so is that next?

    Transportation is a necessity, do we mandate bus passes or other transportation purchases?

    Basic hygene is a necessity, do we put a tax on that too?

    Where do you liberals draw the line for necessities that the government will provide or force you to buy?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 29, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    wrz,

    "....It [healthcare] is not a basic necessity. There are societies throughout the world and across the centuries that had no health care except what they could devise as an individual or family.

    There are also societies throughout the world and throughout history that didn't have enough food to feed everyone. But we don't regard food as a lusxury item, now do we? Healthcare, like having enough to eat, can be a life or death matter. That's something for all of us to think about next Thanksgiving when we're sitting at the table stuffing our faces with a second or third helping of turkey and dressing......or when when we go to the doctor for an annual physical.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 29, 2012 10:53 a.m.

    So Craig Clark, are you suggesting that the government mandate that we buy food and impose a fine if we don't? Besides, while healthcare itself CAN be a life or death matter (note the key word: can), you are missing the point. This bill is about insurance! Is health insurance a basic necessity? Certainly not. Can people survive without health insurance? Definitely!

    Another question to answer: How will the Affordable Care Act make care more affordable?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 29, 2012 11:07 a.m.

    To "Craig Clark" you are wrong, we do consider some foods to be a luxury.

    How many poor people do you know that eat lobster or filet mignon?

    Basic food (much like bandaids, and over the counter medications) are needed. However, lobster, caviar, and expensive cuts of meat are luxuries. The restaurant Serendipity 3 has a hamburger that costs $295. That food item is a luxury, and not a necessity. Fine wines are luxuries.

    Healthcare is no different. The poor can afford the most basic healthcare either through over-the-counter purchases or through private clinics that some insurance companies operate to make care more affordable. If you want more or better care, you (not the government) will have to pay more. Healthcare is a luxury because if you want that fancy MRI scan to find the cause of your problem, it is no different than spending $295 for a hamburger to fill your belly.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    June 29, 2012 11:29 a.m.

    @dave,

    Semantics? Really? You can go your whole life without ever being required to buy auto insurance or pay a penalty for not buying it. You're comparing apples to oranges and then complaining about semantics?

    You can't drive your kids to the park without buying a vehicle, keeping it maintained,or purchasing gas and oil. Which of these is not a commercial activity?

    Other people have torn your comment apart already, so no need for me to pile on. Bottom line is, previously, I have never been taxed for NOT ENGAGING in a certain behavior. I have lost the freedom to refrain from participating in a certain activity. If that's not the most basic definition of freedom, I don't know what is.

  • wrz Salt Lake City, UT
    June 29, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    @Craig Clark:

    "There are also societies throughout the world and throughout history that didn't have enough food to feed everyone."

    There is not enough food in the entire world to provide all the food stuffs that the 6+ billion people on this earth would yearn for and desire.

    "But we don't regard food as a lusxury item, now do we? Healthcare, like having enough to eat, can be a life or death matter."

    Life itself is a live and death matter.

    -------------

    @LDS Liberal:

    "Fine. Go live in Mogadishu or Rwanda. This is AMERICA. We don't want your vision of America."

    My vision of America is the same as the Founding Father's vision, vis... it is not the government's role or prerogative to forcefully take from some and give it to others... whether what includes redistribution of money, goods, or food. And, it is perfectly fine and valiant for private citizens to take some of their excesses and give it to those who are in need, at their sole discretion.

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 29, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    " If the government wants to make healthcare cheaper, why are they going after the middleman instead of end provider?"

    because your "middle man" determines what care will be covered and not covered by the "end provider," the "end provider can go ahead and offer the care they thinks in the patients best interest but they will quickly be out of business if the "middle man" does not agree with them.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    June 29, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    To "George" wrong. The end provider determins what they will and won't do, and the price for their services. If the government wanted to make healthcare cheaper or provide healthcare for those who couldn't afford insurance it would cost the US less to have the government own and operate the clinics.

    If a doctor tells a patient that they need something that is not covered by their insurance, it is up to the patient to decide what to do. The doctor will not go out of business, nor will the patient be denied care. It is up to individuals to determine the value of their own health. Who knows better how much your health is worth, you or the government? History shows that governments only value those who are contributors.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 29, 2012 1:30 p.m.

    screenneme,

    You brought up semantics then gave a pristine example of semantics.

    If you are caught driving without insurance you are charged with a criminal offense, fined and potentially jailed.

    You can't go to any healthcare facility without involving your definition of commercial activity. Even the "free" clinics are heavily regulated.

    " I have lost the freedom to refrain from participating in a certain activity." If you are irresponsible and do not have insurance your freedom will cost all of us that are responsible and pay for insurance and taxes. Your freedom ends when your exercise of freedom has a negative effect on society.

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 29, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    @redshirt
    wrong again redshirt. if the patient cannot afford the care because their insurance will not cover it they most often go without. or wait until it is life threatening and go to the ER where either their insurance is forced to pay more or we pay for it through taxes, either way you and i pick up the bill in higher taxes and/pr premiums. the health insurance agency is not going to eat the loss. No one has to take my word for it simply look at where the profits are going its not doctors or you and I, iis insurance companies posting massive profits.

  • luckyrabbit626 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 30, 2012 7:07 p.m.

    The recent ACA acceptance is just a small step in the healthcare reform. Many people in Utah oppose the ACA because they fear the takeover of "socialist" Obama, and are doing anything in their power to oppose it due to widespread, misdirected panic and fear set upon them. Is "Obamacare" the best thing for the nation? Probably not. It gives the employers greater control in choosing our health care for us. It will cause taxpayers to give healthcare to illegal immigrants who won't pay a dime. It will decrease competitiveness in the quality of health care provided by doctors and hospitals. But at least it pushes us from the stagnation that's been plaguing our senate for the duration Obama has been in office, and shows that we're ready to start moving forward. Forward into an uncertain future full of mistakes? Sure. But at least we're moving. Remember, this act is not the end of the road. continued...

  • luckyrabbit626 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 30, 2012 7:08 p.m.

    continued... We should embrace this change, try it out, alter it, and see what works best for our country. Neither the senate nor our people should shoot down any ideas because they are new and pose an uncertain future. The worst thing would be for us to stand still. How can we move forward by fighting each other at every step? Do we want to spend all our time squabbling over every decision that is made, repeal every bill that is passed? (We would get nowhere!) Or do we want to spend time learning what good has come out of this and what doesn't work for us? We're all so busy being obstinate that nothing will ever change in our country unless we all give a little ground. I advise everyone to take part wholeheartedly in this new development in our country's history and it should help us learn how to shape our healthcare system to make a better future for all American citizens.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    June 30, 2012 8:57 p.m.

    @Nanook of the North
    Everybody always likes to condemn the rich but the condemnation runs both ways

    Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!

    Wo unto you poor men, whose hearts are not broken, whose spirits are not contrite, and whose bellies are not satisfied, and whose hands are not stayed from laying hold upon other men's goods, whose eyes are full of greediness, and who will not labor with your own hands

    D&C 56:16-17

  • Molly44 Blackwell, OK
    July 1, 2012 7:07 a.m.

    Shame on you !

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    July 2, 2012 2:17 p.m.

    per worf @ 11:03 a.m. June 28, 2012

    Nobody said read my lips.