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Doug Robinson: Utah vs. BYU football game should continue

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  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 18, 2012 11:24 p.m.

    USC and Stanford will continue to play Notre Dame.

    Colorado will continue to play Colorado State.

    But unfortunately Doug, it looks like Whittingham is looking for excuses to kill the rivalry because he's too afraid to play the Cougars anymore.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2012 11:54 p.m.

    Christy

    You have to understand Whittingham's dilemma.

    It's gonna be tough enough finishing with a losing record in the PAC 12 every year, without having to explain to nervous alumni why he can't even beat an irrelevant, mediocre, independent, former rival.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:00 a.m.

    Hmmm,who should we play ... BYU or the Michigan Wolverines?

    Bye Bye Cougars...

    It looks like Doug still isn't over that the Utes got the PAC invite. Utah's moving on.

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    June 19, 2012 12:07 a.m.

    This was the caption under the picture for this article....."A small pack of BYU fans watch as the Cougars take on their rival Utah Utes. The rivalry will change with the teams in different conferences." Just wondering what conference it is that the writer thinks BYU is in? Last time I checked, Provo football is not a member of any conference (possibly the WAC?), and do not have ANY invitations.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:14 a.m.

    Oh yea BYU is a real threat to the Utes... Utah has beat byu the last 7 out of 10 years
    And absolutely demolished them in happy valley last year..but yea...lol

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:22 a.m.

    Lots of talk about what Utah should do to save the rivalry... Heck Doug you even admit that Utah doesn't need the rivalry (not in Football at least) and that one can easily argue that it is not even in Utah's best interest to play the game.

    How about some talk about BYU putting some skin into the game... Why expect the Ute to "suffer" for the good of the fans, how about BYU getting off their high horse and admitting that they are not going to call the shots.

    At the very least BYU has to be willing to play in SLC twice in a row, that doesn't mean not playing in Provo it just means to make Utah's schedule work the Cougars will have to play in SLC in 2012 (as scheduled) and in 2013 as well, the series can go back to Provo in 2014.

    If BYU is not even willing to go that far I don't see how the local media can limit themselves to only insisting that the Utes sacrifice to keep the series going.

  • Independence Is Bliss San Jose, CA
    June 19, 2012 12:44 a.m.

    @I still can't say it -

    . . . or you could just drop Eastern Illinois State from your schedule. Nice spin..

    "Utah's moving on". Ha ha! Actions speak louder than words, little bro. And from the utes actions that I've seen, your statement clearly is not true.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    June 19, 2012 12:47 a.m.

    The way college football is going is exactly why college basketball is better. In college football, maybe 30-40 teams have a chance of a national championship. In college basketball, every team has a shot. Even lowly SUU down in Cedar City has a shot if they just win there conference and get into the Big Dance, probably won't happen but hey, look at Butler and VCU. In college football (even with the new playoff platform) is decided by computers and committees to get in. In college basketball, yes, there are committees who decide at-large teams for the tournament, but there are a lot of spots open with at-large teams. Winning a conference in basketball no matter what conference your in gets you a chance to win a national title. College football doesn't provide that and to be fair they probably can't but that is why college basketball is better. I guess the only rivalry we'll see with BYU-Utah will be basketball since there is plenty of room in the non-conference schedule for that. BYU lately has been dominating the basketball rivalry.

  • Willowe west valley, Utah
    June 19, 2012 12:55 a.m.

    Wow, how many times we going to beat this dead horse? Utah left BYU in the dust when they entered the Pac 12...BYU is a has been. You said it yourself in the article there is no reason why Utah should wast the time or effort, cant wait to see Michigan, Ohio st, Penn St, and the rest of the B1G up at RES!

  • Yerffoegn Maricopa, Az
    June 19, 2012 12:59 a.m.

    I Still Can't Say It.....Good riddance to ya. If the game was in October or November I would have some concern. BYU wants for nothing in September. The September schedule is packed with quality opponents. Good Bye and Good Luck....

  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 1:41 a.m.

    It's time to let it go.

  • Cougars1 Bluffdale, UT
    June 19, 2012 3:29 a.m.

    "It looks like Doug still isn't over that the Utes got the PAC invite. Utah's moving on'

    Can't say it- That is not a very informed comment. Doug has a son who played at Utah. In fact, he may still be on the team. Nobody would be more excited about the PAC invite than Doug. This was a great article. Whitt is afraid, plain and simple. He even called BYU a "great" program..

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    June 19, 2012 6:42 a.m.

    There is a giant part of me that wants to continue the rivalry, because Utah, due to the recent successes in terms of recruiting, will pound BYU EVERY year in the future. BYU stands no chance whatsoever against a very deep, talented, well coached Utah team, only getting better I should add. Hooray!!!! However, I'm VERY concerned that there may be more chop-blocking and lethal cheap shots that could occur by BYU players. Uale's hit on Devonte last year really got my attention, sadly. There were others in that game as well. The Utes cannot afford the possible devastating injuries, due to vehement hate and the obvious disparity in the teams that exists currently. Utah needs to be concerned with PAC games, not a "NOW" meaningless rivalry game that has lost it's luster. I agree with KWhit 100%.

    The Utes will devastate BYU again this year.......then......bye bye BYU! ENJOY!!!!

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    June 19, 2012 7:00 a.m.

    Honestly, how is BYU going to beat Utah again? The players, coaches at Utah are far superior. Plus, the depth on the Utah team in the foreseeable future is 100 times better than a struggling mid-major BYU team. Goodbye BYU!

  • MarkMAN West Columbia, TX
    June 19, 2012 7:13 a.m.

    A series that needs to end. Sometimes one team wins, sometimes the other, it does not matter. The fans understood not. For the better, end it. Now that the WAC/MWC no longer exists, tragicly a lot of very good games vanished.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 19, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    "Our program is bigger than the rivalry."

    Yeah right. Keep wishing.

    Not according to the "fans". By a margin of 2 to 1 on these comment boards it's clear that most Ute fans want to keep the rivalry.

    Their version of relevancy demands to keep the rivalry game or else mediocrity in their conference has no true meaning.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 8:15 a.m.

    The ONLY reason the Utes would want to kill the rivalry is because they're too scared to play the Cougars anymore... no game is bigger or more talked about in Utah, than the BYU-Utah game; even today, 9 months after the last meeting, Utah fans cite the score of last year's game 100-1 over any other game from last season.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    June 19, 2012 8:35 a.m.

    Sorry but some things are more important than tradition. This rivalry has simply gotten out of hand. You can hear the nastiness all the way to the Pacific.I think it would be best to let things cool off for awhile. Then the teams can play again when it can be about football and not a substitute for a cultural war.

  • Heathbar4u Utah, UT
    June 19, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    The Utes and Cougars need to go their ways... bottom line. And it is about the bottom line. For the Utes, it's building a national program and research programs, top-notch facilities, and attracting more out of state students. For the "Y" it's about the missionary program. Those are two very different mindsets in themselves - so why bother with this? Just to simply keep the rivalry?

    It's already been cheapened by playing it in September - not the same! The Utes and Colorado need to be the new rivalry, it just has to go this way. Maybe the Y can play around with Utah State now...

    The Utes already benefited with their home games last year and so did the city - bringing in tons more money from tourists attending the game. And with bigger non-conference games coming in, that will increase even more.

  • BigUtahFan BOUNTIFUL, UT
    June 19, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    End the rivalry now! It was a great run, but I'm personally sick of it. The bitterness and hatred are too intense. It will only get worse once Utah pounds them again this year.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 19, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    I have to think that this game has lost alot since the U joined the PAC12. The Y attempt at independence has been terrible and the U is getting better in the PAC12. Can you imagine the renewed luster in this game if the Y were able to get into the BIG 12? BIG 12 vs PAC 12. Great great story line. BYU needs to be willing to drop the ESPN TV contract and basically do anything needed to pitch itself to the BIG 12. If BYU doesn't get into the BIG 12 and stay's independent for the foreseeable future .... then I see a smaller less significant program ... on the level of Utah State ....and I highly doubt Y officials will want to continue in the NCAA being a fading violet so to speak.

  • dden45 Provo, Utah
    June 19, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anyone who does not want to continue the rivalry game is neither a fan of BYU nor Utah. This game HAS to continue, if nothing to show that this conference realignment garbage will not tear apart tradition.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    Doug this horse is dead! Can't you find something else to write about? Please, let it die.

  • Chuck E. Racer Lehi, UT
    June 19, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    I agree, end the rivalry now. I'm sick of the Ute fans. Unfortunately some BYU fans have also tried to be as bad. I'd like both schools to do well, but they are horrible to each other. So just get rid of the rivalry.

  • CrimsonUte Pocatello, ID
    June 19, 2012 9:54 a.m.

    "Recently, Kyle Whittingham, the Utah coach and BYU grad, indicated that the Utes' heavyweight Pac 12 schedule, combined with a plan to add a game against a Big Ten team each year, simply make the schedule too difficult. It adds up to too many tough opponents in one season, or so the reasoning goes in the weird world of college football."

    False. Whittingham never once said that keeping BYU on the schedule would make Utah's slate too difficult. Robinson, you may believe that's the reason the rivalry won't continue, but it's irresponsible journalism to put those words in Whittingham's mouth.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 19, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    Reality is. Whitt has to look out for himself. Although the pac has several not-so-good teams, they are still ranked as a top 5 conference in the country and have several good teams who are tough opponents. Utah showed in their first pac season that they are a middle of the pack pac team at best. Imagine if Utah averages 4-5 conference losses over the next 3 years AND gets beat by BYU. Ute fans stop attending and pretty soon the Utes are looking for a new coach to get them to the next level and put butts in the bleachers. Utah is on the bubble right now. Not good enough to be a top BCS team but close enough to feel it is within reach. They see the top teams in the PAC and see that they have several weak teams on their schedules each season, and they decide to make their schedule easier by not scheduling BYU. They will probably do the same thing to USU if USU keeps improving. They got to 2 BCS games with weak schedules and know it is their best shot to make it happen again. I don't blame them.

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    Big Ute fan here. I understand the reasons for disconinuing he regular rivalry game, but I hope it continues. I resent the control that TV and other factors have over our local football program. I love seeing the Utes play Utah State and BYU. I think it is just fun and what football is all about. I found it funny that on my season tickets last year, on the ticket for the Colorado game was printed the words "rivalry game." If you have to be told who your rival is, they probably aren't a rival (of course, the U will hopefully looking for some revenge after last year's debaucle in that game).

    I hope that the Utah/BYU game continues. It is a Utah tradition. To heck with the TV deals and conferene garbage. We should not let this Utah tradition die.

    Even from a practical standpoint, I believe that as time goes on, this game will be an easier and easier win for the Utes. The Y's program is fading, while the Utes program is growing. At some point, sports will likely be discontinued all together at the Y, so we should enjoy while it lasts.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 11:09 a.m.

    yawn

  • Utah Alum Orem, UT
    June 19, 2012 11:15 a.m.

    It's amazing how incredibly short-sighted some Utah fans have become with their big boy conference arrogance.

    There's not an opponent on the planet that the vast majority of Utah fans would rather see the Utes beat than the Cougars, yet some Utah fans are willing to throw the rivalry away in a misguided attempt to prove that Utah is "too big" for the rivalry and that BYU somehow "needs" the rivalry.

    Nothing could be further from the truth as evidenced by the manic obsession with BYU we see from soooo many Utah fans/BYU haters.

    Get over yourself Utah fans. Utah is, and always will be, BYU's little brother. You prove that everytime you try to disparage a BYU program that has already accomplished far more than the Utes can ever dream of accomplishing.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    June 19, 2012 11:19 a.m.

    Of course it should continue, no different that USC v. Nortre Dame. U fans are coming up with incredible excuses not to play BYU, quite a show of arrogance. Maybe they are "running" scared.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 19, 2012 11:20 a.m.

    TJ,

    If you call beating four top 25 teams including #3 Alabama a weak schedule, then how do you rate BYU's 1984 SOS?

    Here's the real dilemma for BYU and it has nothing to do with the University of Utah or the rivalry. If the future of college football comes down to 4 or 5 super-conferences and the Cougars are on the outside looking in, how long will it take before church leaders shut down BYU football? If the overall mission of the Y's football program is go gain exposure for the church, how is that to be accomplished when the country's focus is on the super-conferences and BYU is either independent or playing in an irrelevant league.

    Personally, I would love to see BYU get in to the Big 12. If that happens, BYU won't want to play Utah anymore either... they will have bigger fish to fry like getting ready for conference opponents. But if BYU doesn't get in to the Big 12 I fear the Y's football program will be dead within 10 years given the changing landscape of college football.

  • Chris from Rose Park PROVO, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:01 p.m.

    @Go Utes,

    Thank you for your comment. As a big BYU fan, I agree with you, keep the rivalry game. It was one of the best parts of growing up in Utah and I loved the game every year.

    @The Utes who want the rivalry to end
    Then please leave already. What is the point in comparing the programs if you don't want any association with us Cougs anymore? I understand the scheduling problems and if that is what ends the annual game, so be it. Please don't say you won't play us because we're irrelevant, you are still willing to play the Northern Colorado's and the Montana State's. I think the Utes will do great in the PAC, I see no reason they won't. Whittingham has done a great job taking over after Meyer, I see that continuing. I also believe BYU still plays good ball (except for 54-10) and that they will compete for years to come. But, if you think you have grown above us and don't want to play, please go already. No one likes a trash talker that doesn't want to back it up.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:03 p.m.

    U90

    "If the future of college football comes down to 4 or 5 super-conferences and the Cougars are on the outside looking in,..."

    You obviously haven't been paying any attention to the latest developments.

    Major college football will have a four-team playoff by 2014, with the four teams decided by a selection committee, much like the NCAA basketball tournament is decided. There won't be ANY requirement to even be a conference champion, let alone be in a particular conference.

    All of the conference championship games will be meaningless as far as deciding which four teams are chosen to play in the national championship tournament - it will simply be the best four teams, regardless of conference/non-conference affiliation.

    And revenue from the tournament will be distributed based on Top 25 finishes, probably since 1998, with independents included in the mix.

    If USC and Stanford can continue to play Notre Dame, and if Colorado can continue to play Colorado State, there's absolutely no excuse Utah can come up with to defend their cowardice in wanting to drop BYU from their schedule.

  • 112 Pack Spokane, WA
    June 19, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    @ 3GrandSlams

    I'm sure the Utes are "running scared". Especially after pulling off that nail biter in Provo last year by only 44 points.

    Score Board!

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    This game needs to end, it benefits neither school now.

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    Utah needs to focus on the Pac 12 and not expend time and energy on a so-called old rivalry. It needs to grow its base beyond the backwater confines of the northern Utah and choose a new opponent within its own conference.

    No one in the Pac 12 gives a hoot about a Utah-BYU football game. Unfortunately Utah may only have Colorado since USC-UCLA, Stanford-Cal, Arizona-Arizona State, Washington-Washington State, and Oregon-Oregon State are already set.

    However, in the West, a Utah-Fresno State or Utah-San Jose State or Utah-San Diego State game would be far preferable to the existing Utah-BYU small-town, little-game-of-the-week.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 19, 2012 12:27 p.m.

    "They've been playing this game since the turn of the century – the last century. They played each other in 1886. They began playing each other annually in 1922." - DR

    Correction, according to BYU fans, like Bluto, the rivalry started in 1972 so about 40 years.

    Utah gains nothing by playing in Provo every-other year.
    Utah's PAC-12 road schedule for 2013: USC, Oregon, Stanford, Arizona.

    SEC teams play 4 road games but nothing like that road schedule.

    Since BYU has no problem scheduling Utah State 2-for-1 then it only makes sense they bend a little to play Utah next year and @BYU in 2014.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 19, 2012 12:33 p.m.

    @I Still Can't Say It
    "Hmmm,who should we play ... BYU or the Michigan Wolverines?"

    No, Michigan won't replace BYU. Whit is looking an easier schedule. Northern Colorado or Idaho State will replace BYU on the Utes schedule.

    BYU is looking to end games against cupcakes, and Utah is looking to add cupcakes. BYU's weak November schedule will end this year. Utah's weak September schedule is just beginning.

    Who can blame the Utes for wanting an easier schedule. With tough competition like Arizona, Arizona St, UCLA, Oregon State, Washington State and Oregon State already on the schedule. LoL Utes have two or three tough teams on their schedule - that's it.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    @TrueBlue

    "If USC and Stanford can continue to play Notre Dame, and if Colorado can continue to play Colorado State, there's absolutely no excuse Utah can come up with to defend their cowardice in wanting to drop BYU from their schedule."

    You coug fans keep using this line about USC and Colorado ... yet they don't have the Big 10 games scheduled yet as Utah is trying to solidify with Michigan.

    In other words, you guys are getting ahead of yourselves in assuming that even the USC, Stanford, CU situations won't necessarily end up changing once the Big 10 / Pac 12 agreement is in full force. ESPECIALLY if the SEC continues to win national championships by scheduling 3 patsy out of conference games at home every year.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2012 12:47 p.m.

    @CougFaninTX

    "No, Michigan won't replace BYU. Whit is looking an easier schedule. Northern Colorado or Idaho State will replace BYU on the Utes schedule."

    Have you been keeping up on the news of late? Utah and Michigan are trying to finalize a home and home. This very much DOES replace BYU and more which is what makes having one patsy on the schedule a little bit more necessary.

    Go check out the SEC schedules for a reference as to why Utah feels this is the direction they may need to go.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 19, 2012 1:15 p.m.

    Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena

    "[Utah] needs to grow its base beyond the backwater confines of the northern Utah"

    lol

    Utah is a commuter school (90% of its undergraduate students are from Utah), and its base IS the backwater confines of the northern Utah.

    BYU is a national and international school (two-thirds of its undergraduate students are from outside Utah), and BYU's games have a national following (see ESPN).

    Only a delusional Utah fan would think that playing San Jose State or Fresno State would even come close to generating the kind of exposure Utah would get from playing perennial Top 25 BYU.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 19, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    True Blue,

    Whether the 4 teams who compete for a National Championship consist of the champions of four super conferences, or they are selected as being the four best teams in the nation at season's end, BYU will unfortunately have a hard time ever making the cut.

    As an independent (not named Notre Dame,) BYU will be likely be unable to put together a strength of schedule that will place them in the top 4.

    Playing, and hopefully someday winning, the Pac-12, would likely get the Utes into the top 4. And if the Cougars ever join one of the top tier conferences, they could hope for the same consideration.

    But unless BYU finds its way to one of the premier conferences, they will in all practicality, by left on the outside looking in.

    Don't take this to be an attempt to insult the 1984 National Championship BYU Cougars, but the college football world won't let that happen again.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    June 19, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    Coach Whit knows BYU's recruiting appears to be getting better. His chances of beating the Y each year is diminshing. Self-interest is not wrong in this case.

    As a native Utahn, I grew up watching the fortunes of BYU, Utah and USU. I looked forward to the in-state games each year.

    A Father's Day event reinforces my feeling that the BYU-Utah rivalry ought to be given a solemn burial. I wore a Father's Day gift of a BYU tie. I greeted a missionary serving in our ward. He saw the BYU tie and visibly showed distaste,also expressing it openly. I didn't have to guess he was a Utah fan.

    When a rivalry taints our feelings that way, it's time to stop it (both feelings and rivalry). Apparently we humans can't show better attitudes about the loyalties or support of others for their favorite schools.

    Reading through comments above further cements my feelings about the rivalry. Civility died, apparently, some time ago in relation to the Ute and Cougar football programs.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 1:48 p.m.

    The rivalry should continue.

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    June 19, 2012 1:51 p.m.

    Yeah, any credibility or accordance I may have lent this article went out the window when I read:

    "...it's Whitney Houston singing the Super Bowl at the National Anthem and leaving out the last line."

    Seriously? Where's the proofreading on the DNews/KSL sites...? 8^\

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 19, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    "How do you have a football season without the blue and red meeting on a fall afternoon?" -- Doug Robinson

    The Red and the Blue will STILL meet on the field every year. It just won't necessarily be the Indy-WACey blue. Arizona-blue and UCLA-blue will continue to line up opposite Utah EVERY YEAR, and they both make for a perferable substitute.

    "They should do it so they can decide who is the best team on the field, not with endless, tiresome arguments among fans via blogs." -- Doug Robinson

    In 2010, Utah beat the Y on the field, yet Bronco claimed he didn't think the better team won. In 2011, Utah POUNDED the cougars, AT HOME, by 44-pts to show who was better [UTAH], yet despite our dominating win, cougar fans STILL bring their tiresome spins and excuses to justify that the 54-10 LOSERS were the better team. The cougars lost 7 of the last 10, but according to THEM, 3 of those losses don't count because Crowton was there, and the last 2 don't count either because they're convinced they were still the better team.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 19, 2012 2:32 p.m.

    Yerffoegn:

    "The September schedule is packed with quality opponents."

    Yeah. Like Weber State. Brutal month there.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 19, 2012 2:41 p.m.

    patriot
    Cedar Hills, UT
    I have to think that this game has lost alot since the U joined the PAC12. The Y attempt at independence has been terrible and the U is getting better in the PAC12. Can you imagine the renewed luster in this game if the Y were able to get into the BIG 12? BIG 12 vs PAC 12. Great great story line. BYU needs to be willing to drop the ESPN TV contract and basically do anything needed to pitch itself to the BIG 12. If BYU doesn't get into the BIG 12 and stay's independent for the foreseeable future .... then I see a smaller less significant program ... on the level of Utah State ....and I highly doubt Y officials will want to continue in the NCAA being a fading violet so to speak.

    __________

    That's an insult to put BYU on the same level as Utah State. The Aggies deserve more respect than that!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 19, 2012 2:48 p.m.

    Wahhhh!I! Wahhhh!!!

    Look at all the crying Cougar fans!
    Just face it. Utah is not interested anymore. Just like the schools that have and will cancel contracts to play you.

    Get real. BYUs legacy, oops I meant WAC Legacy, is nothing more than cheap products made in China. Only to be marked up and presented as a quality brand. Nobody outside of Provo is buying into your brand other than BYU fans.

  • gbo Draper, UT
    June 19, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    As a BYU fan and having talked with Coach Whit several times, I can tell you he is not afraid and that's he's a quality guy. My guess is he'd like to see the rivalry continue but is really stuck in a scheduling dilemma. College football is a mess right now and it's going to take awhile for the dust to settle. It has become all about the money and elitism. In all other sports - basketball, baseball, softball, track & field, etc. everyone has nearly an equal chance to win it all. Look at Kent State and Stony Brook in the CWS right now. It's awesome. College football will likely never get there because there's too much money at stake.

    As a side note, Mr. Robinson is not a BYU fan, so this article has nothing to do with him "getting over" the Utah invite to the Pac 12. He went to Utah State.

    I would love to see the rivalry continue.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 19, 2012 3:09 p.m.

    True Blue,

    Contrary to what you stated nothing has been finalized... whether it be conference champion driven or voting by a selection committee. Go to e s p n . c o m and listen to the interview regarding the topic that was posted just a few hours ago. The 12 person BCS committee has not finalized this piece of the puzzle yet. As of Saturday e s p n tv was reporting that conference champions getting automatic bids is still very much a strong possibility.

    Even if it ends up being a selection committee, being independent with a poor SOS will keep BYU on the outside, right? The better scenario for the Cougs is for Tom Holmnoe to conform to the Big 12's requirements (except Sunday play), assuming there is another invitation extended to BYU and some point in the future. I'm on your side pal, I'm a Utah fan first but want to see BYU remain relevant because it makes college football funner for those of us with ties to the state of Utah.

  • oldschool Farmington, UT
    June 19, 2012 3:34 p.m.

    In the finest tradition of college football, Utah and BYU should decide their state championship every year by a vote of sports writers and a separate vote of football coaches, preferably those who will not have seen either team play. The team that wins both polls will be declared the state championship, and in the all-to-common circumstance that one team wins the coaches' poll and the other the sports writers poll, then the winner of the coaches' poll shall be declared the champ. That's how it is done nationally; why not locally?

  • Utahute72 Tooele, UT
    June 19, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    Doug perfectly states the BYU case. The problem is, it isn't reality. Utah State has been utah's bigger rival through the years. The truth is that BYU had a pretty good 20 year run. Other than that the series is really one of Utah bashing the supposed rival. In the overall series Utah holds a 2-1 advantage, in recent years they hold a 7-3 advantage. That isn't hype, that is reality. BYU is not an elite team. Neither is Utah at this point, but they are closer and have a more defined path to get there. It's within their control, just win baby. BYU took a fork less traveled and now are wandering in an independence wasteland. Until the fans realize where their administration has led them they will continue to wander in outer darkness.

  • J W springville, UT
    June 19, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    BYU is bigger and has done more than probably the Utes ever will. No question the Utes have been better over the past few yrs, but funny that one butt kicking makes Ute fans think BYU can no longer compete in a series that is tied over the past 50 games. 54-10? BYU has beaten Utah worse than that and more than once! And when was Utah's last National Championsip?

  • 112 Pack Spokane, WA
    June 19, 2012 4:27 p.m.

    @ J W
    Utah has never won an NC in football. How many BCS bowl games has BYU won? BYU beat an unranked 6-5 Michigan team 24-17. BYU didn't beat a singe ranked (fianl poll) team that year. Not to mention that was 27 years ago. It's not BYU's fault that the BCS system wasn't in place in 1984; but that season is pale in comparrison to what Utah did in 2004-5 (Fiesta Bowl Champ) and 2008-9 (Sugar Bowl Champ). Let's be real here.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 19, 2012 4:38 p.m.

    [make believe] Utah Alum:

    "Utah is, and always will be, BYU's little brother."

    Really? Then how come "little brother" is in the Pac-12, while "big brother" is in the WAC? Why does "little brother" have a 21-yr lead in the rivalry? Why is "little brother 2-0 in BCS bowl games, while "big brother" is 0-0? Why does "little brother" have more postseason victories?

    When will "big brother" finally catch up to "little brother"?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 19, 2012 4:45 p.m.

    Chris from Rose Park:

    "Please don't say you won't play us because we're irrelevant, you are still willing to play the Northern Colorado's and the Montana State's."

    Try losing by fewer than 44-pts before trying to compare yourselves to Montana State. THEY actually GAVE us game. But, for what it's worth, I'm sure Dr. Hill will be willing to provide Holmoe all the one-offs at RES the cougars are willing to schedule. We might even bump Northern Colorado and Montana State to fit you in, in Salt Lake City.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 19, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    @motorbike

    So you simply choose to claim that michigan is the replacement for BYU? The michigan "deal" isn't even a done deal at this point and even if it was it is still several years off. Obviously if the BYU game is not played in the years previous to the supposed michigan game then michigan is not the replacement.

    You utah "fans" post such easy things to refute, I don't even really have to try.

  • J W springville, UT
    June 19, 2012 5:10 p.m.

    @112 You're right, Utah's '04 and '08 campaigns were incredible. Utah even earned a vote (albeit only one) for #1 in the coaches poll by former cougar Kyle Whittingham. Yet, no national championship. But thanks for reiterating my point, Number Two.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 19, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    I suspect playoff decisions will influence where this rivalry, not Utah fans saying "We've moved on" and byu fans claiming "You're afraid!" (7 of 10 including three blowouts ring a bell?)

    If strength of schedule and/or conference champions are components of playoff selection, it will blunt the SEC's practice of playing 4 weak home OOC games to pad their record and artificially elevate their rankings. (Sound familiar y fans, or did you also not notice you are playing Weber State, Idaho, SJSU and NMSU at home this year?) Then Pac-12 teams could schedule OOC games aggressively and know they won't be penalized for it.

    If those measures are not implemented, the Pac-12 would have to decide whether to go with the flow by going to 8 conference games. With the yearly B1G game, that would leave at least room for 3 OOC games that Pac-12 teams could load up on at home. Since B1G has announced a future 8 game conference schedule, it may very well come to that.

    Dr. Chris Hill is waiting to see how this breaks before talking with Holmoe about future dates.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 19, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    baddog,

    I don't know what you are reading/hearing that makes you so confident that BYU's recruiting has been better than Utah's.

    Over the last 5 years, Rivals and ESPN both claim that Utah has out-recruited BYU. Scout says their last 5 years have been about equal.

    Over the last 3 years, all three sources claim that the Utes have recruited better than the Cougars.

    I agree with you when you suggest that "civility died some time ago" with respect to the Utah-BYU rivalry. While it's only been one year, it seems that some of the hatred may have gone away.

    Maybe it's because the two aren't competing for a conference championship anymore. Or maybe it's because a 44-point loss keeps thoughtful BYU fans from talking smack. We'll have a more accurate assessment of the pulse of the rivalry after the game at RES in September.

    Good luck, Cougars, but I hope my Utes beat you again!

  • CA. reader Rocklin, CA
    June 19, 2012 6:06 p.m.

    The only advantage to BYU and Utah not playing each other during the regular season would be to set up a national championship game between them. Wouldn't that have us all shouting out loud (especially the BCS boys)?

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 6:06 p.m.

    Y or I mean U chose independance.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 19, 2012 6:07 p.m.

    @naval vet

    Sorry but more storied programs with bigger fan bases and bigger stadiums don't do 2 for 1's and 1 and dones with less presitgious schools with smaller "fan"bases and much smaller stadiums. All the utah "fan" wishing in the world won't make that happen. Why take a pay cut to play a pac12 bottom feeder? Frankly it doesn't make much sense for BYU to play utah 1 for 1, BYU loses money everytime they play in SLC. 2 for 1 at LES makes a lot more sense but I wouldn't expect utah to do it. There is so much false pride there that they actually would be willing to lose money and play northern colorado than to admit they are nothing more than a smal commuter school with a miniature stadium.

    LOL!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    June 19, 2012 7:54 p.m.

    Naval Vet,

    Not as btutal as playing Noerthern Colorado.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 19, 2012 8:47 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    Likewise, teams from BCS conference don't do 1 for 1's with non BCS schools. A 2 for 1 in LES makes even less sense due to the fact that Utah has a very limited number of OCC games, and that the Utes make more money playing at home than playing on the road. Also a deal like that would upset season ticket holders, boosters, in stadium advertisers and the PAC-12 alike. There is absolutely no benefit for Utah playing a 2-1 in Provo and the idea is asinine.

    What makes you think Utah will lose money playing UNCO? RES will be sold out either way.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 19, 2012 8:47 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    BYU is a "storied programs"? Maybe you should tell that to your own commits:

    "Utah right now is looking a little bit better. I could graduate early [from high school] with them and enroll in time for spring, where with BYU I couldn't do that, so that's a pro for [Utah]. Another pro [for Utah] is NFL exposure wise where Utah has almost double the guys that BYU has right now." -- JonRyheem Peoples

    BYU is "stored program" as much as they are a BCS program.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 19, 2012 9:29 p.m.

    Duckhunter said:

    "Highland, UT
    @naval vet

    There is so much false pride there that they actually would be willing to lose money and play northern colorado than to admit they are nothing more than a smal commuter school with a miniature stadium.

    LOL!"

    This is absolutely classic!

    Yet BYU is going on the road to play mighty New Mexico St. and San Jose St. i'm sure there will be a lot of false pride in the stands. You know, BYU fans wondering why they are not playing quality opponents.

  • Hawkyo SYRACUSE, UT
    June 19, 2012 9:30 p.m.

    I used to be on the side that wanted the rivalry to continue, but recently I've had a little change of heart. I fear having a BYU logo on or in my car, for fear of Ute fans trashing it. I've also received the distasteful looks and comments just because I wore a BYU hat, or tie. I hope Utah does well in a post rivalry world, but I don't see a commuter school ever becoming anything in the current college football world. Fair-weather fans will abandon them as they always have, and RES will be empty even when USC comes to town. No one likes to watch a slaughter. (I was at the BYU/Utah game last year, stayed on to the last, even though it wasn't fun.) Ute fans just don't have the heart when they lose 4-5 games a year. I hope I'm wrong, but history shows Ute fans are fickle.Heck, most fans are, but take a look at the U's basketball attendance since the fire went out. Football MUST keep their fire going or the sports program is doomed.(Gymnastics excluded of course)

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    June 19, 2012 9:48 p.m.

    To the few Y fans that posted comments about Utah being scared ... all I can say is c'mon! Read the acticle again and look at the logic behind the situation.

    Personally I'd like to see the rivalry continue but things have changed for both sides. If the game were in November, there would be a lot of reason to continue playing every year. The article talks about other non-conference rivalries but GA/GaTech, FL/FSU, etc are all played late in the season. The Colorado/CSU game has mostly lost its appeal in this areas because the game is too early in the year.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 19, 2012 10:08 p.m.

    CO Ute

    "If the game were in November, there would be a lot of reason to continue playing every year."

    Simple solution:

    Have Utah and Colorado play sometime in September, and then have them play their natural rivals (BYU-Utah, CSU-Colorado) Thanksgiving week.

    In 2012, Stanford plays Notre Dame on October 13th and USC plays Notre Dame on November 24th, so this nonsense about the PAC 12 only allowing conference games to be played after September is just that, a bunch of nonsense. There's no legitimate reason why the PAC 12 couldn't grant a similar exception for Colorado and Utah to play their natural rivals during PAC 12 rivalry week.

    Dr. Hill just has to buck up enough courage to ask.

    Unless, of course, Utah is just using "mandated" PAC 12 scheduling as a convenient excuse to avoid playing BYU.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 19, 2012 10:29 p.m.

    upinthenight

    What's really classic is Utah fans pretending that BYU is deliberately padding their schedule with teams like Idaho and New Mexico State, when everybody knows that the WAC teams on BYU's 2011 and 2012 schedules are only there because BYU had such a short time-period to finalize their 2011 and 2012 schedules after declaring independence in August 2010.

    Even casual college football fans know that most football schedules are finalized years in advance.

    BYU's scheduling of Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, TCU (OOC), Boise State (OOC), Georgia Tech, Florida State and other nationally respected programs recently and in the near future is a clear indication that BYU isn't running from anybody, unlike the Utes, who are using every excuse they can think of to dumb down their schedule and avoid playing the Cougars.

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    June 19, 2012 10:41 p.m.

    Hawkyo

    "I used to be on the side that wanted the rivalry to continue, but recently I've had a little change of heart. I fear having a BYU logo on or in my car, for fear of Ute fans trashing it."

    Sad, but unfortunately true.

    After the BYU debacle last year, I noticed a shiny red sportscar parked on the grass fields west of LES. The hood was painted with a Drum & Feather Utah logo, and there were Utah flags on every window.

    If a similar car decked out in BYU colors, logos and flags had been parked near RES after a 10-54 Utah meltdown against BYU, guaranteed, that car would have been trashed.

    At BYU, the Utah car was completely exposed, yet untouched, 30 minutes after the game ended.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 19, 2012 10:44 p.m.

    @two for flinching

    Laughable response. Being part of a bcs league doesn't in any way make your stadium bigger, your fanbase bigger, you tv appeal better. utah may be on tv more but that is only because of who they are playing, not because of who they are. You are what you are.

    And yes utah makes more money playing BYU than northern colorado even if both are sell outs. Just check your ticket price for each game, that ought to clue you in.

  • B C Park City, UT
    June 19, 2012 11:43 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    Math 101 for U

    Despite all of the chest-beating from the hill, RES is still a very small stadium by major conference standards and seats 20,000 LESS than LES.

    With an average ticket price of $65 for the BYU-Utah, a game at LES generates $1.3 million more revenue than at RES. In addition to ticket revenue, every BYU-Utah game at LES is guaranteed to be televised on ESPN/ESPN2. Who knows where it could end up when it's played at RES.

    There's no legitimate reason for BYU to even consider playing Utah on anything other than a 1-1 basic, and purely from an economic standpoint, a 2 games at LES to 1 game at RES makes more sense.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 20, 2012 1:30 a.m.

    BC

    The avg. cost of a BYU football ticket in 2007 was $22 (look it up). I couldn't find avg. cost for 2012 but I doubt BYU's prices tripled (from $22 to $65) between 2007 and 2012. Assuming inflation has now pushed the avg. BYU price to $30, the additional amount of ticket sales generated at LES vs. RES would be $600k. Assuming a 50/50 split, that would be an additional $300k for each team.

    In a few years Utah's TV contract will be pushing ~$30MM while BYU's appears to be holding steady at $8MM. Why would Utah do a 2 for 1 at LES to make an additional $300k when they will be making 100 times that amount on their TV deal?

    Lets be serious, do you really think BYU is in a position to pursue a 2 for 1 from Utah? The minute Tom Holmoe makes that demand Hill would hang up the phone. Making ridiculous 2 for 1 demands in favor of LES would only put the rivalry game in jeopardy which BYU can't afford because they need to bolster their SOS.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    June 20, 2012 6:30 a.m.

    utah would rather play Michigan, the same team BYU beat for a National Championship.

  • 112 Pack Spokane, WA
    June 20, 2012 7:24 a.m.

    @ J W
    Why didn't you answer my question? That's curious. Again, how many BCS bowl games has BYU won? BYU's 1997 season was more impressive then 1984. That year they beat two ranked teams (Kansas St and Wyoming) and Texas A&M who was ranked at the time. In 1984 they didn't beat a single ranked team. Neither season was as impressive as Utah's Sugar Bowl season; beat 4 ranked teams and 1 loss Alabama. Sorry to take the wind out of your sail regarding the NC, but BYU won it by default that year!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    Duckhunter and BC

    No, being in a BCS league does not make those things bigger, but it does change the dynamics of the rivalry. Neither team needs the game, but I would argue Utah needs it less due to the fact that they only have three OCC spots to fill as opposed to an entire schedule. Also I would look for at least two (with the possibility of all three) of Utah's OCC games to be played in RES in the near future. That would add more home games to Utah's schedule, which will obviously lead to an increase in revenue.

    If you want to argue things from a purely economic standpoint then there is absolutely no reason for Utah to play in Provo. If the same is true for BYU, then so be it. Don't play the rivalry game and we can all go home happy.

  • whynot67 Sandy, UT
    June 20, 2012 8:27 a.m.

    Oooops someone missed some editing. This made me laugh. Did Whitney Houston really sing the "Super Bowl at the National Anthem" as the article says?


    "it's Whitney Houston singing the Super Bowl at the National Anthem and leaving out the last line."

    As for the rivalry, the game used to be fun times, especially with LaVell and Mac coaching. They were light-hearted about it and kept it in perspective. I believe Urban Meyer injected poison and disrespect into the rivalry that for some reason the fans and schools have seemed to embrace. Then there is Max Hall...poor wording from an emotional player. I t would not bother me to see the rivalry disappear for a while. Utah and it's fans already think they are light years better than BYU because they have a neat little PAC-12 patch on their uniforms and more money. (Kyle has been given grief for saying it but I would have to agree that the program is bigger than any rivalry. As it should be.) BYU fans will always point at their National Championship and Beck to Harline. Keep it if it can be fun again, otherwise what is the point?

  • J W springville, UT
    June 20, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    @112 Pac
    I don't really disagree with your last comment to be honest. But my original comment was not that BYU is better than Utah overall, but more that BYU is competitive in this rivalry and not dominated by the Utes like many Ute fan commets have suggested.

    But to debate your comment for fun anyway, here's what I think: Everyone agrees that Utah has been more impressive lately. But BYU was more impressive in the 80's and 90's with the invention of the College WCO, the NC, the Heisman, the Miami victory, 5 QB's in the College Hall of Fame, QB's moving on to dominate superbowls etc. It was exciting. I wouldn't trade all of that for a couple BCS bowl wins.

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    June 20, 2012 9:49 a.m.

    hmm...Whittingham is afraid to play BYU...He kicked BYU 54-10 last year.
    Even with a handicapped QB in 2010, he still won BYU game.
    If anything, BYU is getting close to a cup-cake win for BYU.

  • No Conference Will Take Us SEATTLE, WA
    June 20, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    TheSportsAuthority
    Arlington, VA
    upinthenight

    Even casual college football fans know that most football schedules are finalized years in advance.

    BYU's scheduling of Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, TCU (OOC), Boise State (OOC), Georgia Tech, Florida State and other nationally respected programs recently and in the near future is a clear indication that BYU isn't running from anybody, unlike the Utes, who are using every excuse they can think of to dumb down their schedule and avoid playing the Cougars.

    ---

    How many of the above mentioned do you honestly think we will actually win? Perhaps one, if even that.
    There is no guarantee we will play those teams in the future. Only an agreement on paper. One or more of those schools can easily back out to adjust to their changing conference scheduling.
    We need to keep up the 10 win pace and schedule more WAC teams, to solidify our top 23-25 ranking in the polls.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 20, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    After watching all those great players from BYU 70's, 80's and even into the 90's and literally hating everything that they could do, nobody I have ever seen had the touch of McMahnn, nobdy in college football was a better QB than Steve Young, and to be able to watch a Hiesmman throphy winner not a lot of people can say that. But I thinnk it's time for the thing to be over for awhile, I have grown up waiting and wanting to play the Y, but both sides sometimes seems like they just don't get it.

    It is starting to hurt our community, our people are split and in some cases getting downright dirty. I have been a fan, I have been a player going up against the y. And I will always say it's not the players, nor the coaches, it's the fans that have made this unfun. I hope this is the last game for awhile and I also hope that my Utes absolutley slaughter the cougs again--see where it has all gone. The hate needs to go down before we play again.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 20, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    SCUF

    "Whittingham is afraid to play BYU...He kicked BYU 54-10 last year. Even with a handicapped QB in 2010, he still won BYU game. If anything, BYU is getting close to a cup-cake win for BYU."

    lol

    Then why would he even think of replacing BYU (a team that Utah fans are obsessed with), with a team like Northern Colorado (a team that Utah fans couldn't care less about)?

    The simple truth is, Kyle does want to schedule of couple of OOC cupcakes so he'll have enough wins qualify for a bowl game when he finishes with a losing record in the PAC 12. He knows that 54-10 was an anomoly and he's afraid that losing to BYU would kill his bowl chances.

    Kyle's smart enough to realize that finishing 4-5 in the PAC 12, with an OOC loss to Michigan, means he needs a couple of guaranteed wins just to get to the necessary 6-6 record to qualify for a meaningless bowl.

    You can spin it however helps you sleep at night, but that's the real reason Kyle is running away from BYU.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 20, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    Who's we, troll?

    Only time will tell how many of those teams BYU will beat (the Cougars already beat Oklahoma a couple of years ago and nearly beat Texas last year), but, unlike Utah, BYU isn't running away from the competition.

    Couldn't help but noticing, however, that your Utes didn't beat a single PAC 12 team with a winning record in 2011.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 20, 2012 12:19 p.m.

    @TheSportsAuthority

    What's REALLY classic is that no one that really matters wants to play BYU, a "stored program", so they have to schedule Idaho and New Mexico State.

    Currently "Notre Dame of the West" has...

    2013: 6 open slots with 5 BCS caliber teams scheduled (GTech canceled series after this year)
    2014: 8 open slots with only 2 BCS teams (@Texas and @Boise)
    2015: 8 open slots with 2 BCS team (@Nebraska and Boise)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 20, 2012 12:25 p.m.

    @J W

    But BYU was more impressive in the 80's and 90's...I wouldn't trade all of that for a couple BCS bowl wins.

    -----------

    You wouldn't trade 2 undefeated seasons, one in which Utah beat 4 ranked teams (#6, #7, #18, #25) for ANYTHING?

    How about your "Quest" t-shirt?

    BYU hasn't beaten 4 final ranked teams since 1996 let alone in ONE season.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2012 12:57 p.m.

    Pheonix

    Utah is not scheduling teams like UNCO over BYU because they are scared. They schedule UNCO because the Bears don't/can't demand a home game in return. And it's not like Utah is planning 3 non-conference games against FCS teams. Whit has talked about an A-B-C OCC schedule, which makes a lot of sense. There is a big difference between running away from competition and preparing for the real competition, which for Utah is PAC-12 games.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 20, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    "The michigan "deal" isn't even a done deal at this point and even if it was it is still several years off. Obviously if the BYU game is not played in the years previous to the supposed michigan game then michigan is not the replacement." ... "You utah "fans" post such easy things to refute, I don't even really have to try."
    _________

    Do some simple math my friend. Utah and BYU have an agreement in place for one more game ... 2012.
    A new agreement would mean at least 2 games which would place one of those games in 2014 if the rivalry doesn't miss a year. The Michigan/Utah series would reportedly start in 2014.

    So you see, it's actually YOUR comment that was "so easy to refute." It absolutely IS the Big 10 agreement that's a threat to replace the BYU game. Start dealing with reality and when you say how easy something is to refute, you might want to have your facts lined up.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 20, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    @Tom in CA

    "utah would rather play Michigan, the same team BYU beat for a National Championship."
    ________

    Actually the current Michigan team is much better than the pathetic team "BYU beat for the National Championship."

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    June 20, 2012 1:39 p.m.

    Phoenix

    An anomoly is a "Deviation or departure from the normal". Three out of the last 10 games between the U and byU have been blow outs. Who has taken the beating each time? byU...

    Call it an anomoly, but it is getting pretty close to being the norm.

    7 out of 10....54-10...

    It IS clear who is on the rise and set going forward and who is not. I know you will try and say otherwise but look deep and realize the truth, it will set you free.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 20, 2012 2:58 p.m.

    re:J W

    BYU "used" to be better than the U. No more. The U has passed the Y and every year the U gets the best recruits while the Y settles for the left overs. I used to LOVE watching BYU football - back in the 1990's and even through the Max Hall era ... but those days are long gone. BYU has NEVER had a starting QB like Nelson. Edwards and Chow would have never even recruited the kid. BYU is getting beaten up bad now days - the U crushed the Y last year and that was in Provo! TCU has embarrassed the Y for the past 4 years in a row. Lavell never suffered through those kinds of losses with the exception of the Hawaii games where the players were all sun drenched. The tide has turned for the Y and the administration seems content in being a smaller player nationally speaking. The U on the other hand has sky rocketed into the lights and is now seen as a big time program being on the same level as Arizona and Arizona St. It is sad to see the Y wilt away like this...

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 20, 2012 3:12 p.m.

    @patriot

    "The U on the other hand has sky rocketed into the lights and is now seen as a big time program being on the same level as Arizona and Arizona St."

    Yea those are "big time program"s.

    LOL!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 20, 2012 3:39 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    @patriot

    "The U on the other hand has sky rocketed into the lights and is now seen as a big time program being on the same level as Arizona and Arizona St."

    Yea those are "big time program"s.

    LOL!

    ______

    More than New Mexico St and San Jose St. The mighty teams that BYWho is going to play on the road!

  • J W springville, UT
    June 20, 2012 4:13 p.m.

    @ Uteology

    I would trade any of my tee shirts to have my own coach be the only coach to EVER rank us #1 in the coaches poll. And yet you Utes got that for free in 2008! Lucky

    @ Patriot

    You had me going till you said Arizona and Arizona State! Haha. But seriously everyone thinks the Utes are on their way to stardom. What it the last team to join the PAC and actually improve? I'd say Oregon in the 60's. Oregon State, Arizona, Arizona State have all done poorly. Any chance the Utes start to under perform like 2/3 of the other PAC teams? YES!! In fact the Utes did so last year. Joining the 4th best conference (the PAC) in the league presents some nice opportunities, but in my opinion, Utah now has a harder road to a National Championship then they did in the Mountain West. I doubt they'll ever beat USC, Oregon, and the top Big 10, Big 12 or Sec school in the same season.

  • 112 Pack Spokane, WA
    June 20, 2012 5:28 p.m.

    @ JW
    I have no issue with that. You pull for your Cougs, and I will continue to support the Utes: deal? I think both programs have done pretty dang good considering. The Sugar Bowl season will always be near and dear to my heart. I also enjoyed watching BYU knock off Miami back in the day, and Oklahoma & Miss St., more recently. As far as scheduling goes, the rivalry has gotten to intense. Look at this thread, a bunch of chest pounding and be-littleing of the other program. I notice it's the same individuals over, and over, again. That's Weak Sauce. Neither program really needs to play the other. Both are solid, established programs. Good luck this year. Peace!

  • ida-coug Pocatello, ID
    June 20, 2012 5:38 p.m.

    As I read the comments I wonder how many of you are adults. My fear is that most of you are...

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 20, 2012 6:30 p.m.

    It's laughable the spin that our little friends on the hill put on Utah running away from BYU.

    Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

    Either,

    BYU is a cupcake and a guaranteed win, in which case, the Utes would be idiots to run away from playing their century-old rival

    or

    BYU is still a formidable foe, that Utah simply isn't capable of handling along with such "formidable" competition as

    Colo(3-10), OSU(3-9), WSU(4-8), Ariz(4-8), ASU(6-7), UCLA(6-8), Wash(7-6), and Cal(7-6)

    If the Oklahoma(8-5) team that BYU beat just a couple of years ago was soooo mediocre, according to Utah fans, where would the above competition appear on that same scale?

    Besides Oregon, USC, and Stanford, the competition in the PAC 12 is mediocre, at best.

    Yeah, I know, BYU's competition was even worse, but, BYU didn't lose to any of their opponents that finished with losing records.

  • Tomahawk Red North Salt Lake, UT
    June 21, 2012 4:54 a.m.

    "TheSportsAuthority
    Arlington, VA

    the Utes, who are using every excuse they can think of to dumb down their schedule and avoid playing the Cougars."

    ------------

    The Michigan Wolverines might disagree with you.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    June 21, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    It really is too bad that BYU did not go to the PAC. Everybody knows it was not because of the quality of the university or its sports programs. It was all about religion. That such bigotry still exists is very sad indeed.

    However, the fact remains that Utah has moved up a notch in the sports world relative to BYU and if this rivalry is to be saved it is up to BYU to accept Utah's terms. A 2 for 1 deal seems to be the only way this is going to work.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 21, 2012 8:40 a.m.

    Tomahawk

    Don't kid yourself.

    The conference mandated PAC 12/Big Ten OOC series and the built-in automatic loss to teams like Michigan and Ohio State is the reason Kyle needs to dumb-down his OOC schedule.

    5 PAC 12 losses + 1 Big Ten loss, means Kyle has to schedule a couple of automatic OOC wins with teams like Northern Colorado to even his record at 6-6 in order to qualify for a bowl.

    Despite the hillarious banter from the kids on the hill, this has nothing to do with Utah "improving" its schedule, but has everything to do with Kyle running scared of not even qualifying for a bowl when he loses to BYU.

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    June 21, 2012 8:50 a.m.

    @phoenix
    "...Then why would he even think of replacing BYU ...with a team like Northern Colorado..."

    Wait a minute, this does not require a GED to answer and you could not answer for yourself?
    Because there is no difference in the "level" of cupcakes between BYU and Northern Col. duh.

    "...You can spin it however helps you sleep at night, but that's the real reason Kyle is running away from BYU."

    No need to spin...when history is on my side.
    3 of last 4: 48-24 W, 17-16 W (with a broken QB), 54-10 W, and a fluke 26-23 loss
    7 of last 10: 2 gigantic BCS bowls that put Utah in BCS level while BYU is still mid major hoping for a BCS conference invite
    12-7 since 1993

    No need to spin, my friend.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    June 21, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    The problem is with the schedule in the PAC 12. With 5 games at home/road vs. 4 games home/road alternating. Utah needs BYU to play in SLC on the heavy road schedule years. I haven'y looked into it much, but I think Utah will need BYU to play in SLC in 2012 and 2013 before cycling back to Provo after that.

    Another problem is the recruiting non conference game issue. With 9 conference games, Utah only has three left to flirt with. One will be a so called patsy tune up. So you have two left. Do you play BYU every year in September. I think it's split for many people (both red and blue). Playing schools from Texas or other hotbed recruiting spots is valuable. Then there is the BIG 10 thing with the PAC 12 (playing each other).

    There is more to the rivalry continuing than smack talkers on both sides realize.

    I have watched the rivalry game for a long time (since the 70's). I would miss it if it went away, but a part of me is burned out on all the hate.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    June 21, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    It's not just Utah, BYU doesn't necessarily need or want the game either.

    Although it is sometimes sad and unthinkable, traditions often go away for better and worse.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    June 21, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Even if BYU accepted a 2 for (which they won't), it would mean Utah would be without a tune up game some years. For example, when Utah has the BIG 10 games, USU occasionally on the schedule, other recruit motivated games scheduled, then that leaves Utah with the same batch of non conference games each year. I think the non conference schedule needs variety.

    For BYU outside a conference, keeping the game makes more sense. Still, playing good games in September is not BYU's problem, it's November. BYU doesn't need Utah bad enough for a 2 for 1 on the negative side for them.

    As much as many of us don't want the game to go away, many of us also are sick of the game being a hate fest that has increased in duration each year.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 21, 2012 12:46 p.m.

    SoCalUtahFan

    Glad to hear you're working on your GED, but you should include a logic class in your studies because you never even came close to addressing the salient question.

    Keeping in mind that your head-to-head comparisons are meaningless because they fail to address overall performance, which is the real standard by which the strength of opponents should be compared, here's another question:

    How did BYU manage to finish in the Top 15 THREE times in the last six years (50%), while "vastly superior" Utah only managed the feat ONCE(17%)?

  • AZguy Phoenix, AZ
    June 21, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    I agree with the article. It would be great to continue the rivalry.

    But, BYU does not need more games in September; BYU needs games in October and November. And the Utes don't need more tough games from a top 25 program outside of the PAC and Big 10. TV money is ruining college football, but that is life.

    I would love Whitt to say ala Pat Hill at Fresno State, we will play anyone, anytime, but over time FSU just got their butts kicked. That tough attitude is what got Whitt to where he is now. I hope success continues for Whitt and the U.

    Good luck Utes. I love that you are in the PAC, and the fact that the PAC 12 has three BYU grads as head coaches and that Robert Anae was the only holdover from the house cleaning at U of A. It shows what quality football minds that came out of the LaVell era and what a great tutor he was. But, I will root for the Devils and Wildcats to beat you. No offense-really.

    Go Cougs. Here's to Riley Nelson staying healthy.

  • CougarOnTheProwl Murray, UT
    June 21, 2012 8:20 p.m.

    Oh the excuses that people make for utah not scheduling BYU into the future is quite commical. ("Oh but utah has such a tough conference schedule" or "Oh utah is now bigger then BYU and they have moved on because they are in the PAC 12")LOL give me a break, first of all Utah played exactly one good Conference opponent a season ago that being USC. The rest were average to below average so that arguement simply doesnt hold up. And about being bigger then BYU, complete nonsense just because you have the Pac 12 logo means very little you still have to win consistantly to be relevent and you didnt do that last season against what was a pretty mediocre conference schedule.

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 22, 2012 12:47 a.m.

    I think that it is time to sue... BYU is being blatantly discriminated against by the BCS, the PAC 12 and the BIG 12... If BYU wasn't faith based (particularly a Mormon Faith Based Institution) and if BYU would play on the Sabath then they would be a member of one of the two conferences today...

    Discrimination based on Religion is illegal in America and it's time for BYU to stop being so understanding... It's time for the BIG 12 Evangelical conference to prove that they are passing over BYU for other reason besides its religious beliefs on the Trinity and the University's prohibition regarding Sunday Play... It's time for the Board of Regents in the University of California System to show the public what disqualifies BYU that wouldn't also disqualify other Universities in their conference (i.e. WSU)...

    This exclusion is not just a shot at Religion and a demonstration of American Apartied in the 21st century it is also a capricious act to take earnings potential away from a University and its students because of something that is suppose to be protected in the U.S. Constitution.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 22, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    Poyman, there is no discrimination happening against BYU.

    Think of it this way, if you are the owner of a business and an applicant doesn't meet a few of the qualifications required (say the ability to work on Sunday's, or the ability/willingness to perform advanced academic research), would you still hire them? Or would you look to find other applicants that do fill of the requirements? That's not discrimination, it's just smart business. The same thing applies in BYU's case.

    --------------------------------------

    @ Cougs on the Prowl.

    There is no reason to get hurt over the rivalry not being continuously played anymore. The two universities are heading in different directions and have different priorities. (winning conf. titles vs. exposure). Both of those goals may be easier achieved if the Holy War was no longer an annual affair.

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    June 22, 2012 10:32 a.m.

    gdog3finally
    ...It's not just Utah, BYU doesn't necessarily need or want the game either...

    You must understand Bronco's dilemna...it's an automatic loss on his schedule.
    And if it's 54-10....big loss!

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 22, 2012 10:41 a.m.

    @Two for Flinching...As far as Research is concern, tell me how WSU is a stronger institution... As for Utah, they got a Med School, big whoop. Compare average college entrance exam scores (by performance quartile) and BYU kills Utah, and in fact beats over 65% of the conference members... On Sunday play? Doesn't occur in NCAA Football and would not be a big issue for Olympic Sports and Network revenue.

    In response to your analogy, I was the HR EVP for three Fortune 500 Companies.I know about hiring laws and restrictions first hand... If you choose not to hire an individual because they can't work on Sunday or because they don't have the specific skill set that you desire, You have to prove that that skill set is also possessed by all others in similar positions within your company and you have to show that you can't make "Reasonable Accomodations" to exclude an applicant for a religios based requirment (i.e. Sunday Play)... There isn't a judge in the land that would support the PAC 12s position... I have been on the Business side of this equation and I know.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 22, 2012 1:03 p.m.

    @Two For Flinching "if you are the owner of a business and an applicant doesn't meet a few of the qualifications required (say the ability to work on Sunday's, or the ability/willingness to perform advanced academic research), would you still hire them?"

    Well, since the PAC 10 was all set to invite Oklahoma St. to the conference, that argument about 'advanced academic research' pretty much goes out the window, doesn't it?

    OSU is a completely open enrollment university. They have no advanced academic research to speak of, and really don't meet the PAC 10 requirements at all.

    Water under the bridge, however. I'm happy with independence, Utah's happy with the PAC 12. If the rivalry ends, so be it.

    Go Cougars!

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 22, 2012 2:11 p.m.

    SoCalUtahFan

    Nobody at BYU has said one word about wanting to end the annual BYU-Utah game. Bronco isn't in the least worried about losing to the Utes. On the other hand, Kyle essentially admitted in an interview that he was worried about having to play a PAC 12 schedule AND BYU, a clear indication that he didn't think Utah could handle playing BYU on an annual basis, in other words, running scared of losing to the Cougs.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 22, 2012 6:02 p.m.

    poyman said:

    "@Two for Flinching...As far as Research is concern, tell me how WSU is a stronger institution... As for Utah, they got a Med School, big whoop. Compare average college entrance exam scores (by performance quartile) and BYU kills Utah, and in fact beats over 65% of the conference members... On Sunday play? Doesn't occur in NCAA Football and would not be a big issue for Olympic Sports and Network revenue."

    Do people ever take the time to look things up?

    Well you live in PAC 12 territory like me it appears. And you don't know how the conference make up of research is? Each school is known for something.
    WSU has several research programs including but not limited to food & agriculture, education, public policy. They partner with other schools on projects, grants, private enterprise and other things.

    Some people just can't get past the point that BYU is not everything. Utah is considered better academically because it's a research school.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 22, 2012 6:12 p.m.

    poyman said:

    "I think that it is time to sue... BYU is being blatantly discriminated against by the BCS, the PAC 12 and the BIG 12... If BYU wasn't faith based (particularly a Mormon Faith Based Institution) and if BYU would play on the Sabath then they would be a member of one of the two conferences today..."

    Really? So you want them to sue to get their own way?

    There are several reasons (other than not being a research institution) why BYU was not selected to be a member. Here are a couple:
    The PAC 12 in general does not feel comfortable asking any religious school to join at this time. Its not only about BYU.

    As for Sunday play, well tough. Why change to accommodate them for that? Adding BYU to the conference would decrease the flexibility of the conference to expand broadcasting opportunities.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 22, 2012 6:42 p.m.

    poyman said:

    "In response to your analogy, I was the HR EVP for three Fortune 500 Companies.I know about hiring laws and restrictions first hand... If you choose not to hire an individual because they can't work on Sunday or because they don't have the specific skill set that you desire, You have to prove that that skill set is also possessed by all others in similar positions within your company and you have to show that you can't make "Reasonable Accomodations" to exclude an applicant for a religios based requirment (i.e. Sunday Play)... There isn't a judge in the land that would support the PAC 12s position... I have been on the Business side of this equation and I know."

    Well they do support the position. If this was valid L. Edwards would have said things about it long ago. Even back during the 1990s when the PAC looked at expansion with BYU.

    Ok let's say BYU sued they way into the PAC. Can you imagine the ridicule? Every road game in every sport would be an awful experience.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    June 22, 2012 7:58 p.m.

    @Utah'95.

    Try reading it again. I said BYU's recruiting is getting better. No where did I say it was better than Utah's.

    Selective reading and understanding reinforces my believe this rivalry is better dead.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    June 23, 2012 1:01 p.m.

    Go BYU, Just Go Away!

  • Think It Through Scottsdale, AZ
    June 23, 2012 4:12 p.m.

    There should be no question that the rivalry stays! KWhit doesn't want the game because the win wouldn't do the Utes enough good to put them over the top like quality wins against high profile non-conference opponents, but since they're not likely to beat Ohio St or Penn St and other major programs appease the fans and keep a rivalry that is such an important part of why we love the game.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 23, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    Turn out the lights, This Party is Over!

  • No Conference Will Take Us SEATTLE, WA
    June 23, 2012 4:38 p.m.

    Think It Through
    Scottsdale, AZ
    There should be no question that the rivalry stays! KWhit doesn't want the game because the win wouldn't do the Utes enough good to put them over the top like quality wins against high profile non-conference opponents, but since they're not likely to beat Ohio St or Penn St and other major programs appease the fans and keep a rivalry that is such an important part of why we love the game.

    ---

    Uhh and just how many quality opponents did we beat last season? Zero. BYU beat nobody.

  • Think It Through Scottsdale, AZ
    June 23, 2012 5:01 p.m.

    @No Conference Will Take Us

    I don't even know how your comment was relevant to my post. I grew up in UT as a Utes fan and then went to BYU and finally came to my senses on football. I love the rivalry; rivalries make sports what they are! BYU struggled in their scheduling last year and our schedule was an embarrassment, especially the second half of the season. That said, we've already been working on getting more quality opponents through the next several years. Our schedule will improve and so will our win totals. Utah is mediocre right now and the series is fairly evenly matched, @utefans I was at the game last year I don't need to hear the score. Keep the game, it's one of the better rivalries in college football and makes every autumn something to look forward to!

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    June 23, 2012 8:13 p.m.

    Think it Through...BYU and UTAH are evenly matched, really? Byu lost by 44 to Utah at home last year..... BYU is ranked 60th in recruiting this year & Utah is ranked 32nd
    What logic are you going with when you say that BYU and Utah are evenly matched?

  • Cougars --Best Little Brothers Irvine, CA
    June 24, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    In the end...
    1) Utah is a BCS team--bright spot--on BYU's schedule
    2) BYU is just another cupcake--like Northern Colorado--on Utah's schedule

    no matter how Cougar fans or Utes fans want to spin it.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 24, 2012 9:54 a.m.

    Jenny83

    BYU and UTAH are evenly matched, REALLY!!

    Utah has had a slight advantage in head-to-head,

    Kyle leads Bronco 3-4

    BYU has had a bigger advantage overall,

    Bronco lead Kyle 5-3 in Top 25 finishes, 3-1 in Top 15 finishes.

    One or two lopsided scores in the course of 7 years are far less significant than the crimson-glasses wearing crowd think they are. Five of the last 7 games have been decided in the closing seconds by a touchdown or less.

    What logic are Utah fans using to argue otherwise.

    Obviously, NONE!

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 24, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    @killarney "Bronco lead Kyle 5-3 in Top 25 finishes, 3-1 in Top 15 finishes."

    Again I have to ask because yet another Y fan makes this post(seen it at least a 100x). Why do you or any of you Y fans that have made this post list Top 25 and Top 15 finishes yet don't keep going down to say top 5? Is it becasue if you listed top 5 finishes it would be Utah 2 bYu 0? What is more impressive top 5 finishes or top 25 finishes?

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    June 24, 2012 2:17 p.m.

    Killarney dude....... BYu cannot beat Utah lets face it..that's all there is to it..
    out of the last 10 years byu has won 3 games against utah..in the head to head match up Byu is pathetic..and last year sealed that thought.

  • Y's little brother The Hill, UT
    June 24, 2012 3:23 p.m.

    Jenny83

    "BYU cannot beat Utah lets face it..that's all there is to it..."

    As much as the kids on the hill desperately want to believe such nonsense, one game does not determine a series nor a season - 5 of the last 7 games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing seconds, and BYU won 3 of those 5 games.

    Kyle is only 4-3 versus Bronco, and he's smart enough to know that the worm could easily turn and Bronco could win 7 of the next 10, which is why he wants to drop BYU from his schedule - he's scared of losing to the Cougars.

    -------------

    2b

    Utah's twin football successes are already starting to fade as evidenced by how infrequently the Utes actually crack the Top 25, even with their two perfect storm seasons.

    The Utes have been spiralling downward since 2008 -

    2008 #2/#4 (conference champion)
    2009 #18/#18
    2010 unranked/#23
    2011 unranked/unranked (conference bottom dweller)

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    June 25, 2012 6:43 p.m.

    The U's little little brother "on the Hill" (if that isn't obsession), beating a bunch of WAC bottom feeders isn't impressive to the big boy conferences. For a Mid Major to get noticed they have to go undefeated and then get in to an win a major bowls (ala Utah, TCU, BSU) and hence they get invited to the club. The Y winning games against the New Mexico States of the world does impress anyone as evidenced by no invite to the big leagues and a home schedule that is 90% WAC bottom feeders. Enjoy.