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Letter: Controversial alternate-marriage book-banning process flawed

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  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 14, 2012 6:35 a.m.

    Yes, what a shame that PARENTS can't protect their own children from the gay/lesbian agenda to indoctrinate our children into their way of life.

    What a shame that children will retain their innocence.

    What a shame that children will not be confused by two lesbian women who want them to "adore" and "accept" their lifestyle.

    What a shame that children will be protected from a lifestyle that is counter to everything that the people of Utah stand for.

    Oh yes, there is a very loud 2.5% in Utah who insist that same-sex sex is normal and that children should be exposed to it as soon as possible so that they'll be ready to participate when those who practice it need fresh "converts".

    Their agenda is insidious.

    Let them whine and moan that they are not allowed to indoctrinate our children. Let them complain that they are being stifled. Let them tell us that we are inconsiderate of their feelings. Our children are worth the abuse put on us by those who would destroy our children.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 14, 2012 9:43 a.m.

    ...and book banning is always closely followed by book burning.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 14, 2012 10:59 a.m.

    Parents in Utah send their elementary age children to school to learn reading, wring, and arithmetic. They don't want them fed propaganda on alternative lifestyles that they don't agree with.

    Lucky is the child that lives in a loving home with his (or her) birth mother and birth father. It's just a lot less confusing.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 14, 2012 11:51 a.m.

    @Rifleman
    "Parents in Utah send their elementary age children to school to learn reading, wring, and arithmetic. They don't want them fed propaganda on alternative lifestyles that they don't agree with."

    Until they're assigned some sort of activity like drawing a picture of their family and one of the kids happens to come from that type of home.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 14, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    How much propaganda does society need? Every society that has had major changes in social norms started by indoctrinating the children. Hitler had 4,000,000 youth brain washed in 1936. China currently has 73,000,000 youth registered in its "Communist Youth League of China". It also has the "Young Pioneers" for those aged 6 to 14. Russia has the "Young Pioneers".

    Now, we have 2.5% of the people in America trying to push their gay/lesbian lifestyle on the rest of us. In a recent poll, many people thought that 25% or more of Americans were gay or lesbian. The gay/lesbian "brain washing" is working. They have falsely inflated their numbers to coincide with America's perception, instead of telling us that they only consist of 2.5% of Americans.

    Why do we need ANY books in ANY library promoting the gay/lesbian lifestyle?

    Our children are the most precious part of society. They must be protected from those who would expose them to a deviant lifestyle. No one has the right to teach principles that will destroy a child's innocence.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 14, 2012 11:55 a.m.

    @Rifleman
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Lucky is the child that lives in a loving home with his (or her) birth mother and birth father. It's just a lot less confusing.
    •10:59 a.m. June 14, 2012
    ===============
    I’ll be sure to mention your comment to 6 of my cousins, my Home Teacher and his family, a neighbor around the corner, as well as a former Bishop and his adopted children who will most likely find your comment utter non-sense.

    Your Black & White, All-or-Nothing view of everything in the world blinds you to a lot of reality.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    June 14, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    Kids go to school to learn how to read. Yes indeed. And in my experience, the best way to learn how to read is to have lots of books available. Funny books, sad books, adventure books, exciting books, thoughtful books. Books about people like yourself, as well as books about people very different from yourself. And books describing a variety of lifestyles. Lots and lots of books. A cross section of books, a variety of books.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 14, 2012 12:25 p.m.

    The funny thing is the book has not been banned or even removed from the school's library. They have take a book and made it so that a child must have permission from their parent before they can get it.

    Like I said yesterday. Imagine you have a book full of naked women (not porn, but educational such as female anatomy, breast cancer, pacific island cultures, artist's paintings of nudes, and so forth). Would you want that book available to Jr. High or Highschool kids or would you want it available with parent's permission?

    To "LDS Liberal" the church you claim membership in believes in a "Black & White, All-or-Nothing view of everything in the world." That is called the law of opposition, you believe in moral relativism.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 14, 2012 12:28 p.m.

    Re: LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    "I’ll be sure to mention your comment to 6 of my cousins, my Home Teacher and his family, a neighbor around the corner, as well as a former Bishop and his adopted children ..."

    While you are at it you might want to ask them for your Church's official position on traditional families. And yes, lucky is the child adopted into a loving traditional two-parent family.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    June 14, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    It's obvious that today, only posts that mock the family and mock those who stand up for "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" are going to be allowed.

    When a newspaper defends the destruction of society by giving voice ONLY to those who promote an alternate lifestyle, who promote putting books about their alternate lifestyle in our libraries, who become riled when parents speak against those books and that lifestyle, then that newspaper has become an advocate for that alternate lifestyle.

    When that newspaper is the Deseret News, the people of Utah have every right to complain to the owners and managers of that newspaper. The owners of the Deseret News are fair minded, but they will never promote an alternate lifestyle. Listen to the "talks" that the owners have given in General Conference. Find ONE TALK that promotes the alternate lifestyle that the Deseret News is promoting. Find just ONE TALK that promotes putting books about that alternate lifestyle in our schools where our little ones will have their innocence destroyed.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    June 14, 2012 1:06 p.m.

    Restricting what a child reads is not the same as restricting what an adult reads.
    We censor many things from minor children.
    Requiring a parent’s signature is not that unreasonable.
    Unless everyone wants to emancipate all school aged children; ultimately the parent/legal guardian is legally and financially responsible for the minor child.
    Given this, I believe a parent has the right to object to material they find inappropriate at an elementary school.
    It was not only one parent that was bothered by the books content.
    Any parent can buy this book if they want; they also could check it out from the public library which serves a greater range of patrons.
    An elementary school library needs to be careful the kind of books they put on the shelf.
    There are many different lifestyles, and families, do we really want a book about each of them on an elementary school shelf?

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 14, 2012 1:10 p.m.

    @redshirt

    yes I want my daughter to have access to those books. I would prefer she be given accurate information rather then the white washed world of those that want to distort reality driven by religious fanaticism.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 14, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    @Rifleman
    Forgive me for intruding on the discussion of religious doctrines of your church, but I'm pretty sure The Proclamation on the Family was not intended to be wielded as a weapon to bash non-traditional families.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    June 14, 2012 1:39 p.m.

    George
    Bronx, NY
    @redshirt

    Then buy her whatever book you want, she is your kid, you have the right to raise your kid anyway want with whatever values you want to teach her, unless you are abusive enough to convince a family court judge to take her out of your home.
    However in elementary school everyone’s kids are there, lots of different families with lots of different values and beliefs, is it really that unreasonable to ask the school library to restrict access without a parent’s permission.
    This is not a book I want my kid to read.
    Just like I do not like my kid to see a movie before I see it. Is restricting kids from seeing R rated movies without a parent censorship?
    I am responsible for my children, so I can object if I find a book on an elementary school shelf, if enough people agree with me, then it is put behind the counter or taken out of the school altogether.
    That is not to say I want the book burned, like I said, buy it for your daughter then.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    June 14, 2012 1:57 p.m.

    Eric Samuelsen
    Provo, UT
    Ok, lets test that theory, would you be ok with the below real books being placed in an elementary school library?
    If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer

    The Communist Manifesto

    American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
    Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
    The Anarchist Cookbook
    mein kampf

  • L White Springville, UT
    June 14, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    Oh for heaven's sake!

    When did we become a nation of people who berate mothers and fathers for trying to protect their children from "literature" that those parents find offensive?

    When did we become a nation where bullies can force us to give children access to material that we (parents) find offensive?

    When did we lose our moral compass?

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 14, 2012 2:16 p.m.

    @VIDAR
    again with the extreme examples, redshirts examples had no comparison to "r rated movies" we are talking about public educational materials that show accurate representations of the human body. Why should you be allowed to corrupt my child's education because of your religious beliefs. teach your beliefs in your home. Public education is not about your religious beliefs. If you do not want your child exposed to accurate science then send them to a religious school or buy the education materials that expose your religious dogma and teach them at home.

    @L White

    the moral compass that protects individual liberties and right to choose? I am not sure where you lost those.

  • L White Springville, UT
    June 14, 2012 2:29 p.m.

    Mr. George,

    Now, you've got me upset!

    There is nothing in this world as precious as a little child! No one, not you, not me, not anyone, has the right to lead a little one astray. Where in the world is your understanding of "rights" vs "responsibility"? Did I miss something somewhere? Did it become permissible in your part of the world to act without taking full and complete responsibility for the consequences of your actions? Here in Utah, we believe in freedom to act with the knowledge that everything that we do will be reported, with full accountability to our Maker. Furthermore, we believe that leading a child astray is a blemish on us, on our character, and on our responsibility to our Maker to watch over and protect those children, whether they are in our own family or whether we have some kind of stewardship over those children as a teacher or a leader.

    I will never understand the mindset of people who will not protect the innocence of a child.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 14, 2012 3:34 p.m.

    Yeah since book banning was so successful in 1930 Germany.....

    Ohhhh how the more things change the more they stay the same. When will we learn?

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 14, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    @L white

    In my world we protect our innocent child from people that believe they are justified in abusing their personal religious dogma to oppress others , that is my world, thank you for asking.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 14, 2012 4:13 p.m.

    @VIDAR 1:57 p.m. June 14, 2012

    I'm not Eric, but I'll respond anyway.

    First, the books you list (with the possible exception of "The Anarchist Cookbook") are well beyond the reading level of all but the very most advanced elementary school students, so I would not expect to find any of them in an elementary school library on that basis alone.

    Now on to the books:

    "If I Did It: Confessions of a Killer" - No (exclude from elementary school library).

    "The Communist Manifesto" - Yes (include in the library), though I can't imagine any elementary school student comprehending it.

    "American Psycho" - No.

    "Lolita" - Yes, because it is not explicit, and it decries the evils of the subject matter it addresses (pedophilia).

    "The Anarchist Cookbook" - Probably no, because of the many extremely dangerous (and generally illegal) "recipes" in it.

    "Mein Kampf" - Yes, though again, I think it would be incomprehensible to elementary school students.

    Apparently you would ban all of them. I would ban some of them. The real issue is, where do we draw the line on behalf of all elementary students? Who says?

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    June 14, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    Hold on George and L. White. Read this:
    "Like I said yesterday. Imagine you have a book full of naked women (not porn, but educational such as female anatomy, breast cancer, pacific island cultures, artist's paintings of nudes, and so forth). Would you want that book available to Jr. High or Highschool kids or would you want it available with parent's permission?"

    We are not talking about elementary school children in your argument. We are talking about teenagers.

    I, a parent, want correct and educational material for my children to study. I would trust my children with reading and understanding this material - just like I had to in 7th grade health. Everyone in the sixties took 7th grade health and learned (with books and pictures) the facts. Why would anyone want to hide what happens to our bodies? This is important stuff - and backed up with parential instruction, your child is much smarter and ever so much wiser and, if you have taught them correctly, safer.

  • George Bronx, NY
    June 14, 2012 4:28 p.m.

    @lane
    thank you Lane if you go back and read the threads you will see that was exactly the point I was trying to make for two days until I got tired of the attacks.

  • Kazmom PRICE, UT
    June 14, 2012 4:40 p.m.

    I have to wonder if any of the people so dead against this book have actually taken the time to read it. It features two women raising a family. No where in the book does it promote homosexuality - not once does it mention sex (homosexual or otherwise). What is does promote is the acceptance of children living in families that are different from the mainstream. The outcry against this book makes me wonder what it is we want our kids to learn. Because what I see we are teaching them is intolerance and hatred. Heaven forbid they play with the child from the single parent home. That boy in foster care...better not speak to him. The little girl living with her grandparents...definitly off limits. Tolerance and inclusion are learned. Unfortunately what I see the parents of Davis County teaching is anything but tolerance and inclusion of other children.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    June 14, 2012 7:16 p.m.

    And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mark 9:42

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 15, 2012 5:58 a.m.

    Re: George Bronx, NY
    "In my world we protect our innocent child from people that believe they are justified in abusing their personal religious dogma to oppress others ..."

    Removing a book on alternate life styles from an elementary school library can hardly be considered abusing our "personal religious dogma to oppress others". We have a responsibility to protect our children from indoctrination that promiscuous behavior is OK because it will inevitability lead to unhappiness down the road.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    June 15, 2012 7:13 a.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    For your information, LIFESTYLE includes every single aspect of a persons life. The one small difference between gays and straights is who they're attracted to and who they have relations with. So, one very small aspect of one's life is what you're railing on and on about as our "lifestyle".

    Well, let me tell you something. My "lifestyle" is EXACTLY LIKE YOURS in every single way but this one small piece, and that's all you focus on. All you see is "gay *" when you see a gay couple. In my estimation, that sir, is the real per version in our society.

    Would you like to ban books like Hucleberry Finn becuase it exposes your child to race*?

    How about books like "Twilight" that expose your children to stalkers, disobedience and risky behavior?

    Frankly, I wouldn't want my kids exposed to the bigotry of that piece of paper you call "inspired": The proclamation to the family.

  • dave Park City, UT
    June 16, 2012 2:15 p.m.

    Mike, I modified your first paragraph to accurately reflect my feelings.

    'Yes, what a shame that PARENTS can't protect their own children from the Mormon agenda to indoctrinate our children into their way of life.'

    This is truly how we feel. You can't keep your children bubble wrapped their whole lives. They may someday be exposed to something with which you disagree. I would rather that be when they are young and I have a greater impact.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 17, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    People are getting bent outta shape by a book espousing (note the word play) one persons opinion.

    I wondered where all the moral outrage focused on the DaVinci Code and Hunger Games would get channeled into?

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 17, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    @ Ranch 7:13 a.m. June 15, 2012

    **How about books like "Twilight" that expose your children to stalkers, disobedience and risky behavior?**

    Twilight s/b banned simply for the fact that it makes Anne Rice novels look like Pulitzer Prize material.