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Readers' forum: Freedom Works, Hatch

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  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    March 13, 2012 5:16 a.m.

    Senator Hatch has had thirty-six years to present his side of the argument. He has made a lot of promises, and he has done some good; but, he has voted against our freedom and our liberty too many times.

    Any group that points out his voting record is doing us a service. He wants us to believe his sound-bites instead of closely looking at his record.

    He wants us to ignore the fact that he voted "nay" to a prohibition against locking us up without disclosing the charges, without assistance from council, and without ever being given a trial.

    Can you imagine a United States Senator doing that?

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2012 6:19 a.m.

    The fact is that multiple groups have sponsored several formal debates here in Utah between the Senatorial candidates, and Hatch has uniformly refused to participate in these.

    By the way, some would argue that given Hatch's votes to raise the debt ceiling alone, the possibility of him becoming Chairman of the Finance Committee is the number one reason why he should NOT be reelected.

    No, seniority is not everything, especially considering the panel of good, qualified men with sound ideas each of whom is at least as deserving of the office as is Hatch. I see no compelling reason why one of these other, good men -- Chris Herrod, for example -- should not be allowed to take his place.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    March 13, 2012 7:18 a.m.

    Freedom Works gave you the Tea Party and Mike Lee. Are you willing to condemn them, or is it just a matter of convenience? And if Hatch made the argument that Sen. Moss was in too long after 18 years, why is that also not applicable to Hatch? This is about Hatch, and he seems to be a living example of what conservatives say they hate about government.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 13, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    Hatch is running multiple ads through Freedom Path on this web page attacking Liljenquist. So it is OK for Freedom Path, but not OK for Freedom Works?

    Freedom Path runs other ads also touting how Hatch unapologetically fights for Utah. I do not know much about Liljenquist, but I do know Hatch voted for his friend Ted Kennedy over his constituents in Utah. I donÂt know how that is unapologetically fighting for Utah.

  • goatesnotes Kamas, UT
    March 13, 2012 8:22 a.m.

    "succeed in deceiving us?" - oh pullleeeezzzze - here's the correct narrative with no deception:

    After 36 years in the Senate (nearly half his life), at age 78, it's just time to take the seat back and give it back to the voters. Since Hatch won't do that voluntarily, the delegates the voters elect at the caucuses on Thursday night will have to do it for us at the nominating convention.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    March 13, 2012 8:42 a.m.

    Hatch's vote for TARP (among other things) betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about the proper role of a constitutionally-limited government. I'm not willing to put up with that. I didn't need Freedom Works or anyone else to bring me to this conclusion.

    It is time for Hatch to go.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    March 13, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    I'm not a Hatch person....

    But...

    I'm not finding the "cure" to be better than the "disease."

    I don't want Hatch...

    But I know I REALLY don't want Lee 2.0, Jason Chaffetz.

  • NedGrimley Brigham City, UT
    March 13, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    Sorry, but our senior senator is so assimilated into the machine that his time truly has come. He is owned by DC and has long lost contact with Utah and his constituents.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 13, 2012 9:34 a.m.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) announced this afternoon that he will file cloture  the Senate procedure to break a filibuster  on seventeen judicial nominees currently being blocked by Republican obstructionism. Nearly all of these nominees were either unanimously approved in the Senate Judiciary Committee or were approved with Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) as the only objection. Lee, of course, promised to block all of President ObamaÂs nominees and he also believes that Medicare and Social Security are unconstitutional.

    Thanks Utah!

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    March 13, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    I feel the same as Freedom Works, and that is "NO" incumbents. Thursday night I think most everyone there will have the same opinion.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 13, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    YouÂre on the calling list for one of 2 reasons¦.
    YouÂre a registered Republican,
    Or you have been voting for Orrin Hatch for the last 36 years.

    I suggest you donÂt register as a Republican and/or stop voting for Hatch. Problem solved.

    But I agree  outside $$$ [in fact, any $$ for that matter] should never be allowed to influence campaigns, especially Foreign Corporations [i.e., Citizens United].

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 13, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    @Truthseeker: I'll give Lee a call today to congratulate him on standing on principles that will restore this country to her conservative roots.

    If you think Lee is wrong about Medicare and SS you, and you alone, make the case through the words of the Constitution that he is wrong. Don't give me precedent or anyone else's words, just your words along with what is written in the Constitution.

    As a delegate, I've never read one word from Freedom Works nor from Freedom Path. I've seen commercials the last few days but always throw their mailings in the trash and tell the person on the other end of the phone no thanks and put me on your do not call list.

    Poor Ruth thinks as do many other uneducated on these threads, that those who don't vote for Hatch are somehow being hoodwinked and don't know his record. Sorry, but it is BECAUSE of his record we will release him with a vote of thanks and send him back to Pennsylvania.

    Looking forward to seeing everyone tonight and on Thursday!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    March 13, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    I don't want incumbents.

    But when I consider what could possibly replace hatch (Chaffetz) I want Hatch again.

    I understand that Hatch stinks and needs to be replaced. But unless you folks actually present an attractive alternative, I'm going with Hatch again.

  • goatesnotes Kamas, UT
    March 13, 2012 10:08 a.m.

    Dan Liljenquist studied our Utah pension system. He found loopholes including "double dipping" (where someone retires early, takes a six-month break and can then be re-hired, usually at a similar salary). He concluded the defined benefit program was unsustainable. His reforms (which were passed with bi-partisan support in the Utah legislature) saved the Utah state retirement system and much of our annual Utah budget.

    Because the Utah plan has been so successful since reforms to it, Dan has been invited to mentor other states on how to save their pension systems.

    This kind of fiscal reform is what Dan is passionate about. Dan knows where the real problems are in federal finance, what kinds of reforms can be achieved without adversely impacting those who deserve to have the government's promises to them kept. Dan has the requisite passion for fiscal reform and sustainability.

    He will make a valuable contribution to Utah and the nation going forward. The caucus on Thursday isn't just about retiring Hatch as much as it is about selecting a legitimate and competent replacement for him, just as Mike Lee is proving to be replacing Bob Bennett.

    Support Liljenquist at your caucus. Retire Hatch.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    March 13, 2012 10:37 a.m.

    Ruth Ann: You're telling only one side of the story. If you're truly concerned about outside groups trying to influence our elections, then why don't you also mention Freedom Path and American Action Network? These two groups are here to blast and smear Hatch's main OPPONENT (Dan Liljenquist). Their ads are disgusting and border on outright lies. Why don't you criticize them as well?

    Re: Real Maverick: You're aware that Chaffetz isn't running against Hatch, aren't you (not that that would be a bad thing ...)?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 13, 2012 10:38 a.m.

    I love all the assumptions.
    If you live in Utah, you must be a Mormon AND a Republican.

    Some of us plan on going tonight.
    Some is us [myself included] plan on attending tonight AND Thursday night.
    We are the oneÂs who vote for the PERSON, and not the Party.

    BTW  IÂm waiting¦.
    IÂm keep tabs on all you who keep saying they will NEVER vote for Hatch,
    But once he is nominated, will rationalize and justify voting for him yet again for a 7th term and 84 years old.

    Sad, and pathetic.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    March 13, 2012 11:06 a.m.

    One more compelling reason to overturn the disaster called Citizens United.

    But on the other hand, there's Freedom Path doing the same thing on the Hatch side.
    This is slime. No doubt about it.

    Of course, Hatch has "no idea" who is behind Freedom Path. Yeah. We believe that just like we believed his promise to serve no more than two terms.

    Here's a solution. Overturn Citizens United and in the meantime, elect Pete Ashdown to replace Hatch.

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 13, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    Mr. Hatch, I for one don't resent outside groups such as Freedom Works riding into town to tell lawmakers how to vote. YOU TO need to always hear from constituents like me so your back-stage deals stop.

    This wants to make me run to Utah, sit down in Office, and have some Jello with Mr. Lee.

    Members of Congress need to hear from constituents like me before they make critical budget decisions or cast any votes that could have a devastating impact on the lives of millions of Americans.

    March 13, 2012

    Dear Chuck:

    Thank you for recently contacting Senator Lee. He always appreciates input from concerned citizens on matters brought before the United States Senate. I regularly brief the Senator on the thoughts and ideas shared with our office. This way, he can consider your input when voting on issues related to SNAP benefits and the various other issues you addressed.

    Please feel free to reach out to our office if we can be of any assistance in the future. Thank you for writing.

    Regards,

    Peter Blair
    Office of Senator Michael S. Lee

    Hatch has had thirty-six years and HE still don't get it.

    Your fired.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    March 13, 2012 11:20 a.m.

    Bro Schroeder, did you happen to notice that the carefully worded letter you received from Lee's office actually says NOTHING at all?

    Isn't it great how some clever wording can keep our politicians from being forced to actually stand up and become accountable?

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 13, 2012 11:28 a.m.

    Thanks to guys like Sen. Hatch, after 36 years in his private "cave" bubble, this is still around, question is why?. "Massive inflation" is poised to strike the U.S. economy and the best hedge against galloping prices won't be gold but real estate. Gold, a fixed asset whose supply does anything but fluctuate, has long been used as a hedge against inflation, although real estate will do a better job going forward due to its blend of availability and current pricing. No one wants Hatch around anymore.

    Since President Obama took office, the U.S. national debt
    has increased by $5 trillion. That's a 50% increase in government
    debt in four short years.

    At the same time, the Federal Reserve has increased the size of
    its balance sheet by $2 trillion.

    But it doesn't stop there. Over the past three years.

    The European Central BankÂs balance sheet has grown by $2
    trillion.

    ChinaÂs money supply has increased $1.5 trillion.

    Japan's central bank has increased the size of its balance sheet
    by almost $1 trillion.

    Add in England's $500 billion increase in its money supply and
    presto.

    An unprecedented $12 trillion in new money has been created
    out of thin air.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 13, 2012 11:29 a.m.

    LDS Liberal: Who made the claim that everyone from Utah is Mormon and Republican?

    In case you were wondering, where you vote for the person and not the party is at the general election, not the caucus meetings.

    I do find it funny that you are a registered Libertarian but denounce the party system and again, I have yet to see any post from you that would be in line with the Libertarian Party.

    Since you won't be voting for Hatch or the Republican nominee, who will you be voting for and why?

  • Brother Chuck Schroeder A Tropical Paradise USA, FL
    March 13, 2012 11:38 a.m.

    Re: one old man
    Ogden, UT
    Bro Schroeder, did you happen to notice that the carefully worded letter you received from Lee's office actually says NOTHING at all? Isn't it great how some clever wording can keep our politicians from being forced to actually stand up and become accountable?

    Reply: None of these RINO/GOP want to actually stand up and become accountable because that would cramp their style. That's why Lee and Hatch changes their web site over 3 times, "to cover up their cyber paper trail's". They don't want to get busted.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 13, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    Uncle Charles
    Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    11:29 a.m.

    1-Libertarians donÂt hold Caucuses in Utah, just the Party convention April 21st in SLC.
    2-The 1st Presidency said to attend a Caucus, so I will - as many as possible.
    3-I vote for the person, and the only way to hear about ALL of them, is to attend the Caucuses.
    4-I Never vote Party-line anything¦.I donÂt need a Party to tell me who and how to vote.
    5-I might vote for Hatch, just to make sure another nutcake extremist doesnÂt get into office.
    6-And if Senator Hatch dies while in office, the 17th Amendment says the State Governor and Legislature will replace him  and NOT the Tea-Party high-jackers.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    March 13, 2012 1:16 p.m.

    I just opened my mailbox to find TWO more mailings from Freedom Works. I've had at least one a day from Freedom Works and from Freedom Path for about a month now. It's becoming a bit tiresome.

    Freedom Works' flyer today extols the wonderful accomplishments of their heroes, Lee and Chaffetz.

    For that reason alone, it's time to eliminate shady, hidden, clandestine PACs like these two. Their only purpose is to pour unlimited amounts of money into campaigns to convince ill-educated and gullible people to vote against their own best interests in support of whatever secret agendas they may have hidden out there.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    March 13, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    You don't have to respond to this group calling you. Don't resent their right to exercise their political beliefs. Its just politics. Feel free to organize a group that does the opposite.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 13, 2012 3:57 p.m.

    @LDS Lib:

    1- I know when the Libertarian meeting is. See you there.
    2- You always do what the 1st Presidency says? Prop 8? Hmmmm
    3- You think the best way to get to know who is running for office, not delegate, is to attend the caucus? I'd go to the websites of the candidates and attend their meetings to find out why they are running and their platforms.
    4- You don't need a party to tell you how to vote but you have stated you are a Registered Libertarian. Hmmmmm
    5- You do realize that the policies of Libertarians are mostly to the RIGHT of Republicans, don't you? You still have never posted any comment that lines up with Libertarians.
    6- Your fascination with the Republican Party is noted. I think it's borderline obsession.

    IF you attend the caucus meetings tonight and Thursday, I hope you are on your best behavior as you are an invited guest, not a participant. What precinct are you in? I'll come to yours instead of mine and I bet I'll still get elected as a delegate AGAIN!

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 13, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    re:Uncle Charles

    Why won't Lee low judicial nominees to be voted on? If Lee thinks they are unqualified or even if he just wants to oppose them because Obama is Pres., he can vote "no." Lee's obstructionism has real consequences for Americans in other parts of the country where a shortage of judges creates a backlog of cases. Lee is like the bully on the playground who grabs the ball so no one else can play, just because he can. The Republicans in Congress have the worst record of judicial confirmations and Lee is front and center. Obstructionism is what the Tea Party is about and why Congressional Republicans are rated lower than the Congressional Democrats.

    Unlike you (and others) I don't hold myself out to be a Constitutional or legal scholar. I will leave the legal justifications for Congressional bills to the experts. I would note however, the experts often don't come to a consensus. As so it has been since the signing of the Constitution.....

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    March 13, 2012 4:47 p.m.

    one old man: who do you think is behind Hatch? He has no Utah donors to his bank roll, it's all from outside the state.

    Who do you think is bankrolling Obama's BILLION dollar war chest? George Soros. Is Soros even American?

    You stated, "Their only purpose is to pour unlimited amounts of money into campaigns to convince ill-educated and gullible people to vote against their own best interests in support of whatever secret agendas they may have hidden out there."

    That pretty much sums up the average Republican and Democratic voter in the nation and why the Republican Establishment wants to destroy the caucus/convention system. Delegates are well-informed on the issues and voting records and thus can't be controlled.

    @Truthseeker: I'm glad Lee is holding them up. If there are a shortage of judges then maybe you should look to Schumer and see how he "borked" more than worthy nominations to the federal bench and SCOTUS. Just taking a page from Chuckie!

    Let's remember, that Hatch even voted for Ginsburg. If you think that's what the Tea Party is about then you need to get a different news source!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    March 13, 2012 6:26 p.m.

    Uncle Charles
    Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    @LDS Lib:

    2- You always do what the 1st Presidency says? Prop 8? Hmmmm
    [I live in UTAH - not California]

    3- You think the best way to get to know who is running for office, not delegate, is to attend the caucus?
    [I didn't say it was the best way, only that I was asked to attend.]

    4- You don't need a party to tell you how to vote but you have stated you are a Registered Libertarian. Hmmmmm
    [And I said, I don't need a Party to tell me anything. I vote for a person - not the letter L, R, D, C, or G.]

    5- You do realize that the policies of Libertarians are mostly to the RIGHT of Republicans, don't you? You still have never posted any comment that lines up with Libertarians.
    [Seriously...Really? You've got to be joking.
    Libertarians are for Legalized Marijuana.
    What about Foreign Wars and Corporate Bail-outs? Nope
    A Woman's Right to Choose? -- Libertarians are PRO-Choice.
    I can hardly believe for a minute YOU are a Libertarian Uncle Charles!
    ....Right of the Republicans...LOL.]

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    March 13, 2012 6:53 p.m.

    From all the negative campaigning and lies, I don't think one can be a Mormon and vote Republican this year.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    March 13, 2012 7:12 p.m.

    Uncle Charles --- Please, please, please turn off the radio, do some wider reading and try to learn the truth.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    March 15, 2012 1:12 p.m.

    @one old man: Why am I supposed to turn off the radio? I love listening to my Rock n Roll from the 80's and some Country? I read constantly thank you very much. I am currently reading:

    The 8th Habit
    Book of Mormon
    David O McKay and the Rise of Mormonism
    The secret knowledge: on the dismantling of American culture

    It's a pretty good list right now. I've read about 8 other books this year.

    What truth is it you think I need to learn?

    I understand your post was an attempt to slam AM Radio and me personally. I'm shocked that the censors allowed your personal attack onto the thread. As usual though, the Left seems to think they have a "lock" on knowledge, wisdom, education and intellect. And if people like me don't agree with you I'm somehow stupid or ignorant.

    And you wonder why I wouldn't want to be associated with the Democratic Party? Just look in the mirror my friend, just look in the mirror.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    March 15, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    @LDS LIb: I never said I was a Libertarian. Again, atrawman arguments.

    Your positions aren't close to Libertarian since you are all about force, stealing from one to give to another etc. You might want to go look at the Libertarian platform, values, issues links under their About page and get educated on what the positions are of the party you claim membership.

    Your positions don't align with them at all. And as has been mentioned numerous times, you claim membership in the LDS church but your posts are so full of hatred, anger and vitriol. Not in alignment with those teachings either LDS Lib.

  • swede1952 Smithfield, UT
    March 15, 2012 2:17 p.m.

    J Thompson, Mike Richards, goatesnotes, ALL made solid rational arguments for NOT re-nominating or (heavens worst), re-electing Orrin Hatch to the US Senate. Study his record, Hatch is NOT the conservative some of us are led to believe. Dan Liljenquist is a GREAT improvement over Orrin! He's young (37), he's intelligent (look at his record in the state legislature), he's a warrior for what honest and fair, he's the father of six children. I think he knows a thing or two about budgets, compromising, making a stand, listening to both sides, and looking out for the individual. A delegate pledged to Liljenquist get my caucus vote, tonight. "Dan's the man in 2012." It's time to take back the Utah senate seat, return it to the people, and make plans for a new beginning. Utah, the future is calling!