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BYU basketball: Saint Mary's blows by BYU, 80-66

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  • DRay Roy, UT
    Jan. 28, 2012 11:56 p.m.

    biggest factor so far in WCC, to me, seems to be that the Y hasn't yet learned how to be physical and get away with it...St. Mary's will not go far in NCAA unless they are allowed to continue to be very physical without fouls being called...Dave Rose himself has alluded to the need to adjust to the physical guard play, etc., but it seems this physicality is what caused the Cougars to lose their composure...they have shown they are good sports and can play through foul calls, but the WCC officiating really has them reeling emotionally and it affects their play...I do not like the WCC, thus far.

  • Madden Herriman, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 12:02 a.m.

    St Mary's is very good. BYU is decent. Anyone with eyes is better than these officials. Any fan is better than those who throw stuff on the floor (doesn't mater if it is "just" towels - cheer, boo, make noise, but show more class and represent the university better than that).

    I was glad to see BYU fight back in the second half and show some spark, but the shooting better be fixed by WCC tourney time or we're headed for the NIT. Fingers crossed.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 12:09 a.m.

    Any time byu loses it's always the refs fault....come on fans, really!

  • Rick2009 MESA, AZ
    Jan. 29, 2012 12:42 a.m.

    Wimpy, wimpy, wimpy. No hunger, no fire nothing in the gut.

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 1:17 a.m.

    Just awesome, How many losses is that now in the WCC? When all them couger fanzz said 14-2!!!

  • SportzFan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 5:40 a.m.

    " but the shooting better be fixed by WCC tourney time or we're headed for the NIT"

    I think you mean "Shot selection." Continually launching from three when you aren't making them isn't smart. Step in a couple feet or go to the rack.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Jan. 29, 2012 6:25 a.m.

    Pulling out the officiating card when you're blown out like this is embarrassing. Time for a gut check whether or not you should even be watching the game.
    I watched a good chunk of the second half and thought I was watching a Church MMen tournament. Saint Mary's was dismal and BYU, well, back to the drawing board.

  • Julianne North Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 7:22 a.m.

    To Jenny83 I disagree with your commits. If you would have watched the game, you would have seen that St. Mary's got away with a lot of no calls. I think that they must have payed the referees or just because BYU is in its first year in the conference the referees believe BYU doesn't deserve to win because the referees give little takey fouls to the BYU players and not to their oppenent.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:06 a.m.

    The refs cost BYU the game. If they had called the foul on the 15-pointer that Hartsock attempted at the end, BYU would have won (TIC).

    Come on guys, you got blown out at home. No officiating crew could have slanted the game enough in BYU's favor enough to change the outcome. And way to throw stuff on the floor and draw a crowd technical - I've heard that that's possible but I'd never seen it happen before. And all on the "exposure" of national television. Way to keep it classy down there.

  • EightOhOne St. George, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    classy display last night provo!! and Jenny83, you are absolutely right. the refs were also blamed in the lmu loss (which also was a blowout). the common factor in these losses??? horrendous 3-point shooting, missed free throws, and bone-headed momentum killing mistakes. not the refs

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:24 a.m.

    From my observations in this and other games, there is something about the inside game that isn't working. You want to hit outside shots, but that doesn't always work. I think BYU is not strong enough in the post.

  • Alpine Coug Alpine, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    Not so long ago, BYU had a stellar inside-outside game. Not so anymore as their outside shot has totally disappeared over the last five or six games. Zylstra, Carlino, Cusick, Rogers, Abuouo, Winder, et al can not buy a "three-ball" any more. Is it a simple loss of confidence or just better defenses or lack of ball movement? Unless the art of the three can be recovered, the NIT looks like our best hope for the post-season.

  • Otis Spurlock Ogden, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    This is exactly what happens when you don't have enough Pickle Juice to go around at halftime.

  • XelaDave Salem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Good officiating bad officiating- and that was bad- BYU has one major defect and everyone is now fully exploiting it- no perimeter defense- oh how we miss Emery- everything else opens up or changes with a lack on the perimeter- there is reason guard play matter in college and we are watching it

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    It wasn't just one fan that caused a technical because of throwing stuff on the floor, it was an entire student section. It wasn't just once but three or more times including at the end of the game when everyone walked off the floor with 4.8 seconds left on the clock. Is was a disappointing display from an LDS university.

  • Ares Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:26 a.m.

    It's always the ref's fault isn't it? How about the fact that you got out played by 14 points!

    Welcome to the WCC, it's now harder to make it into the Big Dance. Who would have thought? Certainly not any Cougie fans.

  • Th Tooele, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:29 a.m.

    After listening to the color analyst for BYU last night towards the end of the game bagging on poor officiating and bringing up a freethrow difference in the two games they played, I thought I would watch and see if it was really that bad.

    I'm not a fan of BYU, and typically do not comment on these forums. Here's my take of the game after watching the whole game on BYUtv.

    First, BYU started the game very aggresively. They worked the paint and were in the game. During those first few minutes, BYU was actually getting more calls from the officials that St Marys. After the first few minutes of the game, this changed. St Marys started to hit shots, and take the ball to the basket. Once there was a little deficit, BYU reverted to almost exclusively jump shots. There was once posession where 2 deep 3's were jacked up, another bad jump shot, and finally on the last offensive rebound, Hartsock threw up another bad jump shot that went in. I think that sums up the game for BYU. The officials had nothing to do with BYU losing the game!

    As for the trip in the second half, yeah it wasn't a foul, but obviously something was discussed at halftime because the BYU guards were riding St Marys players in the first half that weren't called. The fans who threw items on the floor costing a technical foul followed by poor defensive execution cost BYU the 5 point play to open the second half.

    As a Utah fan, I would love for them to play emotionally and physically. They just don't have the players. But this game, and especially the student fans were way over the top, and extremely classless. What an embarassment to the university having such a poor display of sportsmanship.

  • Ares Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    40-28, at halftime and then 55-32 later in the game and a finish at 80-66 means that BYU got flat out out played.

    The refs can't be blamed when the Cougies were getting killed throughout the entire game.

    Blame them all you want, but you got Jimmered.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    I doubt it was the refs fault... AGAIN.

    Suck it up Cougars, just take the loss. If it were a close game, it would have been a different story.

    You just got destroyed by your WCC foe. No amount of refs in heaven or on earth can deny it.

  • kokua KAYSVILLE, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    The Gaels are for real. There out side shooting was incredible. It opened up the lanes and the rest is in the highlight history book for the Gaels.

    Yes the NIT looks like the future path for the BYU this year. Anyway, still a good season.

    At least we are not like the Utes who are plain old bad this year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:47 a.m.

    EightOhOne

    "the refs were also blamed in the lmu loss"

    Coincidentally, the exact same refs "officiated" both games.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:47 a.m.

    It wasn't just one fan that threw stuff on the floor that caused the technical, it was an entire section throwing things. It also didn't just happen once but happened at least three times with the first time being a warning, then the technical foul, and finally ending the game with 4.8 seconds left on the time clock. It was a sad display of some fans from the student section at an LDS university.

  • tigger AMERICAN FORK, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:56 a.m.

    The officiators made poor calls for both teams and made a few "make up" calls which rarely makes things better. And as for being physical (which I agree BYU is not overly physical) and for poor shooting--it's tough to have the "legs" for outside shots when you fly to VA on Thursday, fly back and play again on Saturday. I'm not making excuses, heck I'm an Aggie, just observations. Looked like to me that BYU was outplayed and the fans, who were overdue for some emotion, took it out on everyone--both teams, officiators and each other.

    On the plus side (and as an Aggie I can say this) there were no obscenities, no vulgar language or signs, no drunken obnoxious fan crawling over me to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes.

  • technonerd7 orem, ut
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:57 a.m.

    The anyone but BYU crowd does have a partial valid point. BYU is partially to blame for the loss for shooting so many 3's and not going inside more. Noah does not get enough touches. HOWEVER, as a BYU fan I was hopping mad last night. 47 fouls? Are you serious? These refs were pretty dang horrible. From the players on St Mary's being allowed to tackle BYU players and no foul called, to the center on the SMC falling before Brandon Davies fully turns(and I thought the flop was an NBA art) to the obvious forearm push off that SMC's guard did all night and never got a call about.

    The point is, BYU was making runs, and the ref's made sure that they would not finish the comeback, that is why the ref's are partially to blame as well.
    BYU needs a lot more practice time, or they are gonna lose and be out of the tourney

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Jenny and oh for nothing in st. george you are absolutely wrong about one thing: the refs. They were very, very bad. But as bad as they were, BYU's outside shooting was worse. That, coupled with St. Mary's being a good team, is why BYU lost. Good officiating would have made the final score closer, but that was still the worst officiating crew that has ever been in the Marriott Center, or anywhere else for that matter.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    "Questionable call"
    Objective much?

  • Y Grad Pumping Gas Beaver, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:06 a.m.

    "BYU has made only 11 of 73 3-pointers in its last four games."

    Where in the world is the coaching?

    Was Jimmer that much of a factor last year that he made Dave Rose a mute point in coaching? and now he has to coach?

    All I can say is; "Jimmeny Christmas"

    Coug fans; Rise Up doesn't mean, Rise Up and revolt!

    Next years slogan: Class Up!

  • kokua KAYSVILLE, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    Who is blaming the ref's ? I am a fan of BYU and the cougars simply got out played. The outside shooting for the Coug's has vanished. It is that simple, if the perimeter shooting was better the BYU would have had a chance in this one, but it was not there and they got schooled.

    Like I said, who is blaming the ref's ?

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    BYU got jimmered!

    Lol FAIL.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    Several observations.

    1. St Mary's is for real. They are a legit Top 25 team and I will have them moving forward to the Sweet 16 in my bracket regardless of who they play.

    2. Officiating was bad, but that is not the reason for a 14 point loss. It may be acceptable to blame the officials in a one or two basket loss, but BYU has bigger things to worry about than the officials.

    3. As a BYU alum, I was embarrassed by the fans throwing stuff onto the court. Go ahead and boo the officials for 15 seconds after a bad call and leave it at that.

    4. BYU's perimeter game has gone from spot on to MIA. If the Cougs can't find the outside shot, they will have an early exit from the NIT. They are forcing too many spots from outside.

    5. Carlino's dribble penetration in the second half was the only positive in the game. Why haven't we seen more of this? Hopefully we will going forward.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    This is an interesting and exciting thread. One of the biggest complaints that people who don't like BYU have about BYU fans (as has been the case for as long as I can remember) is their tendency to blame the officiating when their team loses. The few that did this on this thread are being pointed out (by BYU fans themselves) as wrongheaded and not very savvy. This shows great growth. Bravo.

  • Mr. Obvious Sandy, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    Same old story from the Y

    Poor officiating, bad calls.

    Everyones fault but their own.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    Just watched the game to try to gain some sympathy for the way Y fans felt, but I really still don't have much. For your consolation, the last 3 minutes of the game (especially the blocking foul that should have been a charge) really were pretty bad, but the rest of the game was pretty much even.

    I think Austin drew two charges earlier in the game when he was completely off-balance that should have either been no-calls or blocking fouls. The play in the first half when the fans started chanting "Refs you suck" was because Davies was standing right behind Holt from behind when he jumped for a rebound and and smacked his chin into the crown of Holt's head.

    The fans seemed determined to blame a loss on the refs from the opening tip, and that's pretty sad for a program that's come a long way in recent years. Having a game end 4.9 seconds early because of temper tantrums is a big step back from where you want to be.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 29, 2012 12:29 p.m.

    Stat of the day: Saint Mary's 24 Turnovers.

    Wow, on the road they played that sloppy yet still destroyed BYU?

    Sorry fokes the refs didn't cause you to shoot 2-13 from the 3-point range. Make 3 more and your back in the game. You were shooting like Jimmer was against the Jazz.

  • EightOhOne St. George, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 1:43 p.m.

    Whoa Nellie | 9:58 a.m. Jan. 29, 2012
    American Fork, UT
    Jenny and oh for nothing in st. george you are absolutely wrong about one thing: the refs. They were very, very bad. But as bad as they were, BYU's outside shooting was worse. That, coupled with St. Mary's being a good team, is why BYU lost. Good officiating would have made the final score closer, but that was still the worst officiating crew that has ever been in the Marriott Center, or anywhere else for that matter.

    so the worst officiating ever cost the cougs the game last night. got it.

  • Luv 2 Troll U Sandy, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 2:58 p.m.

    You better get used to your new WCC officiating crew if you blame them so much.

    It looks like to win you may actually have to play well...

  • Duh west jordan, ut
    Jan. 29, 2012 3:03 p.m.

    Know what is the biggest laugher of all? The Ute fans posting here about BYU's loss when their own team just loss to the worst team in the PAC 12. Doesn't that make them the worst now??

    BYU lost, that is all. They shot poorly and got behind by 25. This is not the NBA and coming from behind to win at that point is a miracle. Fouls are fouls. If BYU had just abandoned the 3 pt game, they might have done better. It is what it is.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    Duh, I actually found this a bigger laugher from the sugar-daddy ESPN:

    "Maybe the folks who persuaded BYU to leave the MWC were the same people who told Lil Wayne to sing."

    I blame Tom Holmoe and many of you for what I hear on the radio.

  • ImaUteFan West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 4:45 p.m.

    Having gone to the game last night (early Valentine's Day present for my husband), I was impressed by the prayer given before the game began. I believe "sportsmanship" was mentioned. Too bad the BYU student section chose to ignore what was mentioned in the prayer.

    After the first waive of stuff being thrown onto the floor, the PA announcer "warned" the crowd that any debris landing on the floor would be cause for a technical foul. I guess some bonehead wanted to see if the refs were serious. Way to give the other team 2 points as a gimme. Unbelievably bad behavior by the ever righteous BYU students.

  • SCCougar LEXINGTON, SC
    Jan. 29, 2012 4:48 p.m.

    This is hillarious...All the Ute fans jumping on an opportunity to pounce on a BYU article and down the Cougs. I don't recall the Utes playing any better last night against the 1st place Trojans. BYU got outplayed, outhustled and outscored by a very, very good St. Mary's team. No excuses. The refs made some poor calls but that is no excuse. Win anyway!

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 5:28 p.m.

    eightohone,
    You quote my post which clearly states the reason BYU lost was their poor shooting and St. Mary's being a good team then come up with "so the worst officiating ever cost the cougs the game last night. got it." The only thing you got is density between the ears as evidence by a total lack of reading comprehension.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 5:46 p.m.

    A couple of points:

    1) I have yet to hear someone say that the officiating was fair, even the SMC fans (the ones at the game even agreed that they were horrible refs). That's saying something!

    2) The refs CAN change the outcome of a game. If they are slanted one way, the disadvantaged team has to adjust, sometimes to the point of not playing proper defense (or else a foul is called). How can you say that that doesn't change the game? It becomes jungle ball for one team and becomes a non-contact sport for the other. Obviously one team has a huge advantage.

    3) Bad calls make more of a point difference than you think. If a clean block or some other clean defensive play is called a foul, that gives the team a chance to score when they shouldn't. That's at least 2 points (sometimes 3) for each erroneous call. It can be a 4 point difference since 2 points that should have gone to BYU are instead given to the other team. Also, the technical on Rose was because of Rose's reaction to one of the worst calls of the game. Had the first call been correct, the technical wouldn't have happened anyway, so that's a 6 point difference (2 for the "foul", 2 more for the technical, and 2 more for them getting possession). Adding it all up could have easily made a 14-point difference with these particular refs, even discounting the other factors (such as the refs killing BYU's momentum with phantom calls).

    That's the way it was, and people won't like to hear it. SMC did play well, though, but BYU-- despite their poor shooting-- could have pulled off the win with a competent officiating crew.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 5:48 p.m.

    "The only thing you got is density between the ears as evidence by a total lack of reading comprehension."

    That's funny, I had a comment about someone's reading comprehension denied that was nowhere near as harsh as this. I'm gonna start a chant: "Worst moderators ever!"

    Or maybe I'll just get over it. Yeah, that's what I'll do.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    Jan. 29, 2012 6:21 p.m.

    officiating cannot address abysmal 3pt shooting. Unbelievable! Welcome to the NiT=Not Interested Tourney.

  • SCCougar LEXINGTON, SC
    Jan. 29, 2012 7:14 p.m.

    Texas Coug: Don't count the Cougs out yet. Disappointed that you already have them playing in the NIT. Of all the posters, didn't think you were so easy to sway. Still a lot of games to play and positioning for the WCC tourney. It's harder than you think to beat a team 3 times in a season. Just sayin'.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Jan. 29, 2012 8:11 p.m.

    A nice long-winded "blame the refs" by RivertonCougar.
    At the end of the game it comes down to one thing-scoreboard. SMC scored more points than BYU.
    You choked again at home. Go ahead and keep blaming the refs. Its fun watching the BYU loyalists get all hysterical.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Jan. 29, 2012 10:12 p.m.

    "A nice long-winded "blame the refs" by RivertonCougar."

    Did I say anything untrue? The thing about scoring points is that refs can give and take away opportunities to score points. If you disagree, I am awaiting your argument for why you feel that way.

  • cval Hyde Park, UT
    Jan. 30, 2012 9:49 a.m.

    Gotta love the "at least one fan" line in the article.

    The arbiters of class at BYU have certainly shown theirs... and it was a lot more than "at least one fan."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 30, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    You know, there's nothing shameful about losing twice to St. Mary's; you don't need to make excuses. They're (both St. Mary's and BYU) a good team and typically one finds that with bad reffing that they make errors in both directions anyway. Some of you are complaining about free throw difference. Some of you are complaining that BYU is just taking bad perimeter shots. Okay... you know the fastest way to have fewer free throws than the other team? Throwing up 3's or long 2's and not driving toward the net. The one usually leads to the others.