You can educate students in a tent if the teacher is well prepared. I would
love to see the teachers paid more, but instead of a 1% increase the increase
should be 5%.Lots of oil royalties could come to the state and if
they did any development on the shale in eastern Utah the royalties could
exponentially increase.There are additional income streams available
if the good governor will look.
It will be very interesting to see how the Utah Legislators handle this. I have
a suspicion that this body is dominated by real estate salespersons and
multilevel marketers. These people can make more money from their relatives and
friends working part time than a 4th grade teacher can working 50+ hours per
week. And which profession has the time and PAC money to dominate the
Now the Governor will be ostracized by the state legislature. Goodbye
Gary, Utah's elected officials are trying at every turn to destroy public
education so they, and there friends can profit from private school projects.
A raise is appropriate, but there will never be enough. The first comment this
morning proves it. Why not a 5% raise? The Districts need to boost
the pay of the beginning teacher. The first four years the pay for a new teacher
is very low, then it jumps up after that, leaving the impression that teachers
salaries are low. The salary for experienced teachers is desirable. Most workers
would love to have a teachers schedule,salary and benefits.It is
extremely difficult to become a teacher. You must have a high GPA, and be
accepted into the program. Other college programs cannot afford to screen the
applicants so well. That is very telling about how desirable it is to be an
educator.We have the lowest WPU only because we have more than one
funding source for education. There are at least 13 sources of funding, but only
one source in Utah is labeled the WPU. Other States count all dollars in
Education as the WPU. Therefore Utah will always have the lowest WPU. Until there is transparency in the way schools spend tax dollars, we will have
YAHOOOOOO! Now instead of making $30,000 a year I am going to be bumped up to
$30,300!!!! "Honey we can now get that new vacuum that you
I have no problem paying good teachers what they are worth (and the market
should determine that), but I hate to pay for an inept education system. and
that is all we really ever do.
Ball Boy,You may hit a higher tax bracket, and come up with less.
It's time these millionaire teachers pay a little more, or their fair share.
It would be really nice to see other state employees recognized as valuable.
Besides going many years without raises - even COLA - the legislature then even
took away the last remaining perk - the 4/10 work week for state employees. It
was taken away even from segments that did not require workers to be on the job
5 days - even those who had worked flexible schedules before the adoption of the
4 day week. In tough budget times it is necessary to be creative and to
reinforce good workers in order to keep them. I think teachers are worth paying
for but so are we as state public health nurses and other workers. The
short-sighted revolving door policy the legislature has adopted is already
beginning to slam us in the face as the best seek employment where they are
appreciated, given the license to do their jobs as managers and are compensated
fairly. As the economy improves, more and more good employees will leave the
public sector. Let's hope we will actually have a private sector when all is
said and done. If you don't recognize the value of good state employees, try
doing without them.
Seriously. Worf? Stick to the topic.
Re: RN4moms | 8:38 a.m. Dec. 13, 2011 "In tough budget times it is
necessary ..... to reinforce good workers in order to keep them"No, you have it backwards. In tough budget times good workers need to be
thankful that they even have a job. And no, with Obama in the White House our
economy is not going to improve. Business insiders almost all agree it is going
to get worse. Be thankful if the State of Utah is paying your salary.
Almost everyone I know has received an effective reduction in pay over the last
several years with their bonuses being cut, their benefits being cut, they are
working longer hours with no additional pay, etc. I don't see why teachers
should receive a pay increase right now -- compared to many others they have
already received one since their pay hasn't been cut.
How kind of the governor to find some additional funding for education in an
i think most teachers get what they deserve plus you can add about 30,000 a year
with bennies and retirement. It's a part time job and we are in a recession with
1000's not even employed.The school system is broke and throwing money at
it is not the answer, it needs to be completely overhauled
Molli pull your head out of the clouds. Learn before you post.Teachers took a big pay cut. More than most that still have jobs. They were
cut 8 days of pay. That doesn't even start to talk about their benefits that no
longer exist. The whole retirement program was demolished by the legislature.
@ The Big One, You sound like Howard Stephenson? What are the chances of that
Orem Parent | 9:18 a.m. Dec. 13, 2011 Teachers took a big pay cut. More
than most that still have jobs. They were cut 8 days of pay. That doesn't even
start to talk about their benefits that no longer exist. The whole retirement
program was demolished by the legislature. @Orem Parent, 8 days of
pay is a "big pay cut"? Perhaps you should educate yourself about the
complete lack of retirement program that most workers in this country receive,
the additional hours most workers are working for no additional pay (well beyond
8 days a year), the benefit cuts most workers in this country have received.
There is no reason teachers should be treated differently. Cut their retirement
and make them like most workers -- that would at least equalize the playing
Politicians like to demonize their opponents. It's one of the reasons I hate to
vote. Many of the choices aren't ideal.The base salary for
beginning teachers in the Jordan District is 32,889. Dividing that number by
184 (contract days) and 8 (hours in a work day) puts their hourly rate at
something like 22.34. That's not a bad wage, but it's important to remember
that teachers work more than 8 hours a day. They're only paid for 8. One percent of 22.34 is 22 cents an hour. And it's the first time teachers
have had a raise in several years. They've been losing to inflation all those
years - about 7% in the last 3 years. The 1% increase is nice, but it leaves
teachers 6% lower in actual buying power than they were four years ago. That's
what the Democrats are complaining about.What the Democrats are
missing is that Utah's budget is now in the black because we are a thrifty
people. Utah didn't have to lay off as many teachers because we didn't have a
budget crisis. Utah didn't have massive political strife like some other states
because the majority of our legislators understand how important education is to
our future and to the economy, AND because teachers understand that there are
limits to reasonable taxation.So, kudos to the teachers for working
through the lean years, and kudos to our state government for their fiscal
responsibility. And Democrats, we love you, but we'd rather have long term
stability than political strife.
Ms. Molli, my teacher wife's salary has been cut for four years straight. What
on earth are you talking about? Not only have salaries been cut: Entire programs
have been cut, class sizes have been increased, benefits have been cut. The
entire retirement pension system was restructured so that all new teachers will
now have to fund their own retirements. The state changed from a defined
benefit plan to a defined contribution plan. Anyone who says that
teachers have not taken a cut is lying. Education has been cut, cut, and cut
@ The Utah Republican,"They've been losing to inflation all those years -
about 7% in the last 3 years. The 1% increase is nice, but it leaves teachers 6%
lower in actual buying power than they were four years ago. That's what the
Democrats are complaining about."The inflation rate you mention
is Utah's inflation rate or national numbers? I'm doubting Utah has had
inflation rates anywhere near 7% in the last 3 years.
@Winglish: However, most everyone else is also responsible for their own
retirement. I'm not sure how the Utah PERA is structured, but I know my teacher
brother is going to get 60 percent of his highest salary for the rest of his
life when he retires, this on top of money he himself is putting away. His
pension alone will net him around $45,000 a year, after he retires, for the rest
of his life. Not a bad salary for small-town Utah. My question is: Is this
pension paid for by the taxpayers, or does this come from contributions from the
employees? I truly don't know and would like to know how PERA works, because it
seems like a pretty good gig.
To The Big One Teaching is a part time job. You are joking right.
Molli,Your whole argument was that teachers haven't received a pay
cut. Look at the last line of your first post, "I don't see why teachers
should receive a pay increase right now -- compared to many others they have
already received one since their pay hasn't been cut."You
obviously have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to teachers as
several other posters have pointed out. You have some kind of axe to grind
against teachers. That is fine. Just don't spout lies and claim they are
"Utah didn't have massive political strife like some other states because
the majority of our legislators understand how important education is to our
future and to the economy"I have to disagree with this. I have
never gotten the sense Utah legislators have cared much at all for education. I
see too many legislators demonizing teachers and the education process. I
applaud their willingness to allow charter schools to create an alternative, but
that is in itself quite problematic.As for the avoidance of a huge
political meltdown, I'd say that has more to do with the fact that the number
one political question in Utah isn't whether you are Democrat or Republican, but
"how conservative of a republican are you?" It's difficult to have a
real knockdown, drag out fight between people who are cut from the same
Get rid of the communist teachers union first. An organization funded by tax
money should not be able to endorse either political party.
@NeilTThe Big One and all the others who say teachers don't work
full time are thinking that working 9 months of the year makes it so. As you
recognize, that is laughable. Many teachers use those 3 months to supplement
their income. And don't even get me started on the brainless ones that claim
teachers work 9 months but get paid for 12. They only get paid for 9 but choose
to spread the payments over 12. It is very clear that many of those posting
here do not believe in fair compensation for value provided. Teachers would be
getting paid much better than a lot of provessions if that were the case. The
pay disparity between wall street bankers and teachers would be reversed if that
were the case. The real solution would be to change the way public eduction is
funded, so its not tied so directly to property taxes. That paradigm clouds the
thinking of a lot of people on this whole issue. It makes them say crazy things.
xscribe,That system no longer exists. The legislature did away with
it for anyone hired in 2011 and beyond. The old system that your brother was a
part of was funded by the taxpayers as is everything in education. The teachers
agreed to lower salaries because they knew that the rest of the money that
should be going to them was being invested in a retirement program.The problem is the legislature did away with the retirement program but didn't
add any more money to the salaries. In order for your brother to be
getting $45,000 a year in retirement on the old system, he would have had to be
earning $75,000 a year as a teacher which doesn't happen in Utah, especially
small-town Utah. Also he won't get all of the money unless he agrees that he
gets it all and his spouse gets nothing when he dies. A very tough choice that
shouldn't have to be made by anybody.By the way my brother works for
Boeing and is going to get a much sweeter retirement package than anything a
teacher will ever come close to.
job,There is no such thing as a teachers union in Utah thus there is
nothing to get rid of. Nice try with the rhetoric though. You are doing a fine
job spouting off the party line.
One percent! That doesn't even cover cost of living increases. On top of that,
it doesn't cover the mounting increases in insurance premiums. Thank you very
much, from about 1% of my heart.
For those of you complaining about teachers salaries and saying they get paid
good. Look at this. Child care is $2 per hour per kid. if you paid teachers $2
per hour per kid they would make around 70,000 per year. Now look at the
teachers salaries and tell me they are getting paid fairly. Babysitters get paid
ClarkKent,I would guess that the 7% is aggregate over 3 years, not
7% in one year. In good times, inflation is around 3% per year, so 7% during 3
years of a recession is definitely possible.
Governor Herbert should have proposed a larger salary increase. The legislature
always gives less to teachers than what the governor proposes. Setting 1% as
the starting point for budget deliberations does not show that the governor
really wants to make teacher salaries a priority.
For a state full of constituents who are so concerned/paranoid/skeptical about
how each of their tax dollars are being spent, I find it amusing that those same
constituents continually call for cuts to government employees salaries and
benefits, which continue to fall well below the combined salary/benefit of
comparable private sector jobs. Do you Republicans understand all
that does is ensure the quality of employees using your tax dollars only
decreases with each passing session of the Legislature?In tough
economic times, you can try to use the pitch of "Job Security" as your
only selling point. With the hyperbole to square things up later. As things
improve, your only selling point goes away.1% increase? And that
follows the study requested by the Legislature that reported two weeks ago that
state employees combined salary/benefits are at least 13% behind private
sector.As the economy continues to improve, all this thinking
guarantees is that our tax dollars will be spent much more inefficiently.
Ms Molli: Almost everyone I know has received an effective reduction in pay over
the last several years with their bonuses being cut, their benefits being cut,
they are working longer hours with no additional pay, etc.----Teachers have suffered the same cuts - health benefits have been cut,
retirement benefits have been cut, "career ladder" funding has been
eliminated, and class size reduction funding has been abandoned - thus
increasing teacher workloads.
A raise is great, but when my husband's business hit a rough section in the
road, he had to take a cut in pay. Seems that in this economy with everyone
hurting, we should be seeing how much of the 'dead wood' in the educational
morass can be cleared away and what is saved from that given to the teachers,
before the taxes which should be in line with the economy are taken from one and
given to the other.
Re: williary | 11:45 a.m. Dec. 13, 2011"Do you Republicans understand
... employees ... only decreases?"What we unsophisticated
Republicans understand the concept of interest. Unlike California we aren't
flushing billions of dollars down the drain in interest on out of control
spending of money we don't have. Liberals understand debt. It is
something they expect your grandchildren to repay.
Rifleman said:What we unsophisticated Republicans understand the concept
of interest.Yes, we know, "interest" in destroying public
education, by any means, including de-funding education in Utah to the point it
fails. Pretty soon only the dreggs will come work for a State, who acts
like the teaching profession is little more then public assistance for the
lazy.Conservative only understand money, A generation of kids can be
uneducated as long as Utah can still balance it's books. How you gunna repay
Thanks, Utah Teacher, for the explanation. And as I understand PERA, you get
around 60 percent of your highest salary - unless that has changed through the
restructure - which means my estimate of $45,000 a year is going to be close,
maybe more like $40,000. Yes, he's earning in the mid-$60,000 range right now,
and so is his wife - also a teacher - so times that $40,000-$45,000 by two, and
they've got it made.
Rifleman,Just so I am clear, President Bush and the republican
congress fully funded the Afghanistan and Iraq wars the Wall Street Bailout and
the Prescription Drug Plan? If we want to talk about the state republicans,
their supposed "fiscal" responsibility is less about not burdening
their grandchildren, and more about the contempt they have for public education
and educators in the state of Utah. Look at the perks they have in place for
themselves in the way of insurance and retirement plans. Look at the
legislation they pass that provides personal benefit to their business interest.
A one percent raise on a teacher salary doesn't even offset what
will probably be the increase cost for health insurance this next year, but it
is at least a gesture to say that the increase in class size and the previous
pay cuts have been recognized and we want to help as much as we can.
@xscribe- Yes, your brother has a very nice retirement. New teachers do not get
the same deal. The retirement system was completely restructured to a defined
contribution system for all new teachers hired in Utah from 2011 on. The older
teachers did get to keep the retirement system they were counting on when they
chose the profession. To say that the teaching profession has not
suffered cuts like everyone else is just outright lying. I know the schools in
my district have let teachers go every year for the past three years. The
number of students has increased at the same time, leaving classes bursting at
the seams. Salaries have been cut. Insurance and retirement benefits have been
cut. The system can only be cut so much. There simply must be
incentives built into the teaching profession to attract new job candidates. I
wholeheartedly support doubling all of the property taxes in all of our areas.
We should all pay for education because we all benefit from a well-educated
@ xscribeFor them to both be making 60,000 they would both have to
be a principal or close to that level. In Sevier School District you top out at
60,000 if you have a PHD and 28 years experience as a teacher.
This article should have been entitled, "Herbert wants to stay in office,
and knows that an army of 'educators' can help him do it." Gary be just
playin' the politician role, and buying more votes with taxpayer funds. He
knows that public schooling is more sacrosanct than either motherhood or apple
pie, so he'll sell to that audience. And, he'll conveniently ignore the issue
of the fat-cat "administrators," who draw six-figure-plus salaries for
wandering around and brown-nosing all day. And you too can ignore it if you
want, but you better ante up all day long, and keep paying for this system of
public babysitting, where there's no structure, little discipline, and very
little production. The young, starting teachers should be the ones we feel
sorry for, because the system uses them to the benefit of everyone else.
Wow! Is this the unity Obama was going to bring America?High
unemployment and debt is the result of corrupt government. Period.No
reason for anyone taking cuts in wage and benefits. We need to unite in
changing our leaders. Petitions against standardized testing would be a great
start for ending wasteful spending. Does anyone see any educational benefits
from these tests?Modify foreign aid. Why see 28,000 postal workers
lose their jobs to save 2.1 billion dollars, while sending much more than that
to other countries who hates us.Let's get the Canadian oil line
going. Lower fuel prices and tens of thousands of jobs, with less dependence on
the middle east. Great. Our commander has vetoed that. Let's get someone
who'll work for us. As a country, we're lying down and taking a
Gee whiz, such vitriol over the proposition of taking an expected budget surplus
and giving our kids' teachers' a little raise. I'm Republican and I'm all for
it as long as it's not all going to Kyle Whittingham's raise (I like Kyle but am
hoping his salary is getting funded from some boosters or the revenue he brings
in or something and not my tax dollars). I don't feel the need to excoriate the
profession or get bent about a raise for the teachers just because I'm not a fan
of UEA or bad teachers or stupid mandated curriculum. Lighten up a bit fellow
Dump the illegals. Tax IHC. Then you will have more than enough money to pay
for our children's education. Also, demand merit based pay for our
teachers. They work 9 months a year. They have better benefits than most
people. Pay the good ones more- show the bad ones the door.
@mdHow about those with the large families stop getting HUGE tax
exemptions every year? Shouldn't people be paying their own way? Isn't that
the conservative mantra?
To all you self-righteous teachers who are complaining about your salary. You
don't become a firefighter or police officer for the money. So what's your
excuse? Did you become a teacher for the money or for the love of the job?If you want more money, be prepared to work all year 10 hours a day and
risk all you own with the bank, and after paying your taxes, you may become a
successful businessman or women. There is a choice, or you can just be happy
with your current teaching job, three months off each year, 10 paid holidays,
several weeks paid vacation and health care and retirement account and assured
to never be fired no matter how bad you perform. Wow, where do I
Teachers are paid far too much as it is. All Gov Herbert wants is their vote in
the next election.
I would love to see a pay raise for teachers, something Governors Jon Huntsman
and Michael Leavitt proposed as well. All great intentions but the infamous UEA
will find a way to sabotage this process pushing it to the district level where
the funding gets pigeon-holed into some other fund or to pay the salary of yet
another administrator. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker had the right idea about
outlawing collective bargaining in public education since it has screwed it up
royally throughout Utah and the U.S. The only good union is one that's been
And I can hear Dougall already. "Pay teachers more money? What kind of a
socialist plot is that? They already make plenty and only work 75% of the year
for it. Look at me, I'm really smart and my teachers were just fine while they
were they were dining on Top Ramen."I'm sure this will go over
like a lead balloon during the session.
re: TruemanJust so you know teachers get zero paid holidays, zero
paid vacation days, it is closer to two months (also unpaid) and teachers can
get fired if administration does their job. If you want to post that is great,
but actual facts that are accurate are nice too. If you would like
to teach, feel free to go to college, graduate, go through a teacher prep
program and you can apply.
@CHS 85I don't have a huge family. I don't get big exemptions for having
my family. I get taxed at a rate that is criminal. How about a flat tax with
NO exemptions? That sounds like the only fair way to tax Americans. I am
independent and don't subscribe either political party to tell me how to think.
Tort reform. Fine the lawyers for filing crazy lawsuits.Insurance overhaul. Make them cover reasonable medical care.Educate the children in the US to compete with foreign countries. Reward
excellent teachers.Kick the incumbents out of office after two 4
year terms, without benefits. Return STATESMEN to serve in the government.Tax IHC.Get rid of political correctness and call illegal,
illegal. Strengthen our borders.Bring our military home.Stop bailing out other countries and invest in our own.Weed the
freeloaders off of the welfare rolls.Enough ideas for ya?
Mark T.: Without divulging too much information, they are neither principals,
nor do they have a Ph.D., but I'm not sure how long they have been teachers.
However, it's my understanding that there is a website, or at least there used
to be, that posts all the state employees' salaries. And they live just to the
south of you.
xscribeHow much is that Ph.D worth in Colorado? I'm sure that the
husband and wife teaching duo you are referring to would trade salaries with you
anytime. My guess is that each of these individuals probably have an education
well beyond a masters and more than likely at the end of their careers. This
combination would not be a true representation of most teachers in our state.
Now, is there a website I can look at that would compare a Ph.D at your college
with those here at SUU?
Here in southern Texas, teachers starting pay is around forty thousand. Out of
curiosity, what is Utah's starting pay?
Worf, it's in the low 30's.