The right thing to do? The right thing to do is -- follow the law! It is
pretty simple, especially in this case.
Illegal: badLegal: good
Bunch of baloney as usual,amnesty isn't going to fly this year, next year,or any
Shurtleff is now looking for a job. I cannot think of any job that he is
qualified for. Perhaps he can get more training at Salt Lake Community College.
Here is the truth on the matter:Liberal Democrat politicians need
illegal immigration. The birth rate in the crowd attracted by Michael Moore is
half the birth rate of conservative crowds.Motor Voter prohibits even
asking if a person is here legally. If Liberals thought for one minute that
illegal immigration was hurting them at the ballot box, it would end today.Big Business (usually lumped in with Republicans) want illegal
immigrations. They want the cheep labor.Rank and file union members
and conservatives want it to end. Union leadership and Liberal Democrats are one
and the same (see lib. Politicians above).Religious leaders know
many illegal aliens. The illegals that religious leaders know are good and
decent people (they know them from church for crying out loud). They don't see
the darker side of illegal immigration. Hence, religious leaders focus on the
impact enforcement would have on those that they know.The average
American wants this problem to end. It will only end when we stand up and vote
the present crop elected officials out of office.
Chris B. for President!
Here is the solution:1. We need a guest worker program where we
allow a limited number of guest workers in for a limited time (say 3 to 5
years). They work with the understanding that any children born here are not
citizens.2. There is a symbiotic relationship between illegal aliens and
their employers. It is in the best interest of both to keep their mouths shut.
We must create a hostile relationship between illegal aliens and their
employers. We do this by offering a $10,000 reward to the first person (illegal
or not) to turn in employers who employ illegal aliens without doing due
diligence to screen them our. If the employer was negligent he gets hit with a
$15,000 fine. $10,000 goes to the reward and the balance goes to finance the
program. No employer would risk it.3. Make it illegal to rent housing to
illegals. The penalty? The landlord has to refund all the rent. Nobody would
risk it.Phase this in over a 12 month period so people can
prepare.This program is compassionate (guest worker program), fair
and self enforcing. All illegals would be forced to go home.
Russell Pearce was targeted as a symbolic repudiation of SB1070 by the left. It
was an open election with overwhelming democrats and latinos voting to show
their disdain for border control and restrictions to the free movement of
latinos seeking a better life and income in Amexica.
I live in the district where Lewis just defeated Pearce. I have read what is in
the news and there is a big difference between the two. Lewis believes and has
said that illegals and their children should be allowed to pay in-state tuition
costs for college. He is not anywhere near as strong against illegal immigration
as the papers report. Many that live here do not think he understands what
liberty is about as much as did Pearce. Now that he is elected we will watch and
slowly see other elections around the country occur because liberals don't like
the views of someone who understands liberty. It has nothing to do with
It's interesting that the Utah Compact is looking for a pat on the back when it
has actually had absolutely no effect in finding a solution for our illegal
immigration problem. The Utah Compact is one year old, yet Utah and the United
States continues to be a free-for-all for those who wish to enter our country
ALL civic minded Americans want their laws enforced. Otherwise why have laws at
all? Why have borders if they're not enforced?ALL (or almost) all
Americans would like their LEGAL neighbors to be able to get a job without
having to compete with workers being pd. one half or less the prevailing
wage.Between 70-80% (depending on who's numbers)of Americans want
immigration laws enforced.Obviously Shurtleff and the rest of the
"open borders" crowd think they have a "victory" with the
defeat of ONE individual state Senator. States all over the country are STILL
trying to do the job the feds WON'T DO.The "open borders"
crowd has a lot of money behind their effort.But they DON'T have the
support of LEGAL, LAW ABIDING citizens so their attempt at amnesty will
The basis of this story and its headline is incorrect. Arizona's latest polls
show that the above 60% of respondents still strongly favor or favor support of
Arizona's enforement law ushered through the legislature by Mr. Pierce. In
fact, Mr. Lewis endorsed support of the law in his campaign and need to do this
in order to make the successful challenge. Mr. Pierce's demise had much more to
do with in party political unrest with his leadership and representation. And,
his efforts to go even further in efforts to monitor and control illegal
immigration and its impacts on Arizona. This article is not only inaccurate,
but an effort to mislead as to what is going on with regards to illegal
immigration in Arizona. The Utah Compact is simply a well worded document that
supports the continued exploitation of poor people by politicians, businesses,
Those who just say "its just about following the law" are missing the
point. If a law isn't working or isn't moral, we can change the law. That is
what the discussion should be about, changing immigrations laws to something
that actually works.
Conservatives and Republicans need to remember these comments by Shurtleff. He
runs as a republican because he knows he wouldn't win in his real party, the
Democrats. When he doesn't get the UofU job, will he run for public office
again, if so he needs to be defeated.
When the Western culture that created America is swamped with those bringing
with them a Third World culture, America as we know it will cease to exist. One
thing we can be sure of is that these immigrants will overwhelmingly support any
government action which transfers more wealth to them from those who have earned
it. That is why the Democrats like them so much.
Immigrating legally to the U.S. is among the easiest immigration processes in
@ "PA rock man"NO LAW works if it doesn't get enforced.Why pass a "different" law?IF the law really
wasn't moral the American people would have already changed it. Americans, for
the most part I think are quite fair. We DO HAVE a system of orderly
immigration, but those who use it are made to feel like fools by those who just
walk across the border.THATS not fair!
Tide turning in favor of illegals? In your dreams....sad spin in this article
It's just amazing how the open borders crowd/liberal media all try to spin this
like US citizens REALLY DO want out of control illegal immigration. SURE! Why
wouldn't we want it? I mean, who wouldn't want out of control lawlessness,
gangs, drugs, school and emergency room overcrowding, with millions of third
world illegal citizens stealing identities, driving drunk on our roads, and
taking every entry level job that our young people might need, Right? Reality is quite a different story, because the American people are sick and
tired of illegal immigration and the problems it causes. Well at
least we have some good news today, which is the fact that Shurtless is retiring
from his AG position and from politics in general. He should become the
director of LA RAZA, as I'm sure they love him.
Get a life Shurtleff. Until Shurtleff can accomplish something he has no
credibility. It's funny how he always has to voice his political opinions but
never has anything to say about the job he is paid to perform. Maybe because he
never does anything as attorney general.
Another pathetic piece by the chief propogandist for illegal immigration in this
state. You'll never change the opinion of the majority of Americans who want our
laws upheld and accountability for those who break them, and who also recognize
that compassion for cheap labor equates to no compassion for the unemployed.Shame on any business that hires an illegal rather than a hungry
American. And shame on any church that claims we lack compassion because we want
the rule of law, American sovereignty, protection of our borders, safe
I am in favor of amnesty for illegal immigrants.
RINO Shurtleff = OBAMA!!
Sorry Rock--I don't know of any big business that wants illegal immigration.
They may want to pay labor that in proportion to the work they are doing but
that is a whole different discussion.The moral thing to do is to
enforce the laws we have now. I know I won't support or vote for anyone who
voted for SB116.
We should just make a law stating that illegals are entitled to any liberals
wealth or anyone who wants illegals here. They are allowed to take over
liberals homes, social security, jobs and will not be prosecuted. If they steal
from anyone else they will be prosecuted.Simple, now the liberals
are happy; and with a free ride at any liberal home they won't need to steal
from people that work.Solution!
The ignorance and bigotry that have been displayed in many of these comments is
positively appalling. Hopefully the racism and hatred that have hijacked so much
of the Republican party will, as the article suggests, soon be seen as a passing
fad. Then the party will again be able to focus on its core principles.Economic downturns are a part of life; they've happened around every five or
six years throughout our nation's history. Every time one hits, lots of people
irrationally think that isolationism is the solution- boycotting foreign goods,
ending free trade, closing borders, turning back immigrants, etc. For a lot of
US history these kinds of actions have been associated with the extreme left
(leftist unions and the Socialist Party); it's odd to see these ideas hijacking
the right side of the political spectrum.Thankfully reason has
generally prevailed. Most of us who are here, including those railing against
immigrants, are here because cooler heads prevailed and overturned the
1790&1795 Naturalization Acts, the Alien and Sedition Acts, the Emergency
Quota Act, the National Origins Act, the Asian Exclusion Act, etc. Our
unreasonable restrictions on Latin American immigration should soon follow.
Another story today Romneys Clunker. That describes the Utah Compact. Now that
is a clunker. Shurtleff is full of it. I do not believe that any conservative
will back any thing in it.
Stop the assault on our nation for Democrats to grab votes, as they
intentionally remain deaf, dumb and blind to illegal aliens voting or even
aiding them. ACORN is a good example, of fraudulent registrations, absentee
ballot applications and the Motor Voter forms. Each of us should wonder how many
illegal aliens breached the Arizonas voting code, to recall state senator
Russell Pierce. With a very large percentage of foreign nationals settled in
that border state, it would be easy to compromise the lax voting restrictions?
Anybody with a computer and color printer could fool the officials, with two
pieces of paper as a forged utility or phone bill, with a name and address on
it. Furthermore stop Republicans selling our country to the special interest
lobbyists on K Street for campaign contributions and lucrative perks. NumbersUSA
has the facts.
The CON PACT is a farce on a grand scale. The majority of Utahns don't want any
part of it. This article is yet another big lie in that it attempts to make it
appear like the illegal alien outrage that is getting stronger every day is
actually "softening". WRONG. Ask Rick Perry is he thinks being soft on
illegals gets you very far nowadays. As for Mr.Shurtleff,, I was a delegate at
the county convention this year and when he showed up he was about as popular as
Nancy Pelosi and her big gavel at the Obamacare signing, he was booed and
everyone was happy when he left. As a graduated of the U I hope they don't pick
him to run the school as his record as attorney general speaks for itself.
Anti-immigration attitudes does not help illegal immigration solutions. It
throws the baby out with the bath water. Good legal immigration policy and
fairness to legal visitors and legal citizens is essential to solving illegal
activity. The Utah Compact is the right way to do this.
Good news. The tide is turning against the knee jerk reaction by conservatives
to immigration. many comments on here just reaffirm what I already belive to be
true. Predjudice and hate for people because they are poor have no place in a
civil society. Lets start voting the right wing conservatives out in Utah.
Prodicus - You are right on. It makes me sick when people comment on
immigration as if it is illegal. Only illegal immigrants are illegal, stop the
bias to legal (and helpful) immigration and US citizens that look like
The Rock "They work with the understanding that any children born here are
not citizens."Then what are they? You can't deport someone to
another country unless they are citizens of that country. How would you like
Mexico to deport all of their illegal immigrants to the U.S.? If the country of
the parents does not recognize the children born outside of their country, then
what are they? Chinese Americans are not Chinese citizens. African Americans
are not African citizens. They are only American.
70% of Arizona still support the law. We have the right to enforce
our immigration laws, just like every other country in the world. What right to
people have to come here illegally, not obey our laws, and not stand in line to
come legally? Where is their right and compassion to their fellow man? Do the poor have the right to steal from others? My relative in
Mesa told me that the corruption in that area was out of control. That the vote
was more for a general change for most people, than immigration related. The direction is South Carolina, Georgia and Alabama. Convenient how
Shurtleff missed that.
Will amnesty solve the illegal immigration problem. Will it stop us from having
to go through this again in the future?Has rewarding illegal
behavior ever solved the problem?
This is just pure propoganda. Shurtleff is losing my respect bit by bit with
this nonsense.We have solid immigration law on the books. The
problem is not the law, it is the lack of leadership and will to enforce that
law.This is another situation where religious infuences are sticking
their noses into civil law in such a way as to deprive LEGAL US citizens of
their rights.Enforce the laws! Quit playing political games!
1 stupid town in Arizona and not knowing the facts of why he was voted out
except for this propaganda and a handful of big heads in Utah's capital=chaos in
Change the laws to support guest workers, bring them here legally and heavily
fine any employer who hires undocumented workers. While we're at it, we can
increase the numbers of immigrants that would like to immigrate to this country
legally. We are all immigrants. Until we get a sound workable solution, we will
have all of these racial, hate-driven comments that are remarkably similar to
the Ku Klux Klan. It is really unfortunate that the right-wing conservatives in
this state are so filled with hate against anyone who is not a white male.
Isn't it interesting that the Attorney General of the state, who is supposed to
enforce the law, and that includes immigration laws, is running around patting
himself on the back for looking the other way and NOT DOING HIS JOB? Does anyone
else want to see this guy go away and never run for any office in this state
again? What a farce this whole thing is.
This article belongs on the editorial page, not in the news section. Everyone
knows the D-News position on illegals, but readers deserve better than this. Put
pieces like this in the opinion section where they belongs.
Prodicus Thank you for your excellent comments. Right on. I just went on line
and signed the Utah Compact. All fair minded peoople should do the same. The
propaganda that all undocumented immigrants are just here for welfare is
ridiculous. The vast majority are here working low paying service sector jobs
and illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare in Utah.
>If a law isn't workingIt works when elected officials and law
enforcement officers actually have the integrity to enforce it. You can cite a
law that isn't being enforced and say it isn't working. That's a typical straw
man argument.>or isn't moralExpecting people to have
the decency and integrity to NOT invade a sovereign nation isn't moral?
Apparently, "moral" doesn't mean anything anymore.
What is with the entitled to everything right away, that those here illegally
feel they are entitled to? And why do a group of people feel they
are entitled to change our laws by ignoring them?Prodicus, people
from Latin America get 36% of our green cards right now. That's preferential
treatment. With our unemployment, and the federal government saying
it's going to last for several years, we need our jobs. Guest workers are not
needed, and agriculture visa's are unlimited. Amnesty doesn't stop
illegal immigration. And the Utah compact ignores future immigration. It's not
about compassion, it's about cheap labor.
SB1070 is not a "tough, hateful" law. It the same as Federal law. Treating people illegally by raping, robbing, and beating like some countries,
is harsh and draconian. Enforcing the law like sb1070 is moderate, and allowing
people to break the law because we love them is liberal (or an excuse for an
agenda). The Compact has nothing to do with legal immigration, it
was carefully crafted mixing legal and illegal to get support. To this day no
one has taken credit for it. I find that very telling.The Justice
Department on Thursday urged the Supreme Court to stay out of a lawsuit
involving Arizonas immigration law. What does that tell you?
Greece and Italy are the gateway for Europe for illegal immigration. Greece is
even building a wall. Is it any wonder they are going broke. I hear
a lot of complaining on here about due process. Realize that when dealing with
illegal aliens, Americans have no real due process. Whether civil or criminal
court, there is no recourse for Americans if a judgment has been made. The
person can just go back over the border. National news is reporting that the two
missionaries killed in the hit and run in Texas were hit by a Mexican national.
He was arrested trying to cross the border. If he had made it, he would not of
stood trial for the hit and run. Countries all over the world deport
people there illegally. Why can't America? Our deportation laws are the more
humane and compassionate than other countries. I dare someone to find 10
industrialized countries that have more humane laws.
@Prodicus "The ignorance and bigotry that have been displayed in many of
these comments is positively appalling. Hopefully the racism and hatred that
have hijacked so much of the Republican party will, as the article suggests,
soon be seen as a passing fad."It is amazing to me that in the
minds of so liberals that if you are against their perceived morality we are
ignorant racists bigots. Great arguments for disobeying the rule of law. I do not disagree their needs to be changes in the immigration laws, but
because I support the rule of the current laws makes me a bigot seems a bit
Here is a list of work visas already available. Athletes, amateur &
professional, nannys "B-1" Border Crossing Card: Mexico
"BCC" (many use this illegally to work) Crewmembers "D"
Foreign nationals with extraordinary ability in Sciences, Arts, Education,
Business or Athletics "O" Intra-company transferees "L"
Media, journalists "I" NAFTA professional workers: Mexico, Canada
"TN/TD" Performing athletes, artists, entertainers "P"
Physician "J ", "H-1B" Professor, scholar, teacher (exchange
visitor) nanny "J" Specialty occupations in fields requiring highly
specialized knowledge "H-1B" Students: vocational "F, M"
Temporary agricultural workers "H-2A" Temporary workers performing
other services or labor of a temporary or seasonal nature. "H-2B "Why do we need guest workers, they would already qualify for one of the
established visas if there was need for their services.
Re: NeilT | 10:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2011"all undocumented immigrants are
just here for welfare is ridiculous"The news is reporting that
the hit a run driver who killed two Mormon missionaries was a Mexican National.
They were unable to say if he was in our country legally.
The laws in Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina all do one thing --
they make it illegal to even appear illegal which is why cooler heads prevailed
in the courts and struck down those laws. Pearce's efforts went beyond trying
to control illegal immigration and instead made it a detainable offense to
appear illegal (i.e. hispanic). Alabama did the same, only worse, a person
could be detained indefinitely without the right to a bond hearing if an officer
had suspician someone was illegal. Can you imagine driving through Alabama with
an accent and having forgotten one's license? This is the non-sensical
bordering on prejudice type of laws that got Pearce in trouble. The laws simply
went too far in trying to address illegal immigration.Far simpler
would be e-verify with tax credits to small businesses for implementing. Take
away the job carrot, and the Supreme Court has already said this is ok for
states to require. Individuals with work authorization be they U.S. citizens,
PRs or others with work authorization would have no fear.
Coupled with e-verify, we can adopt some sort of work authorization for those
who have been here a long time. The government for years tacitly welcomed those
coming to work knowing it would benefit the economy. The government does not
have clean hands. A compromise would be a conditional permanent
residency for those here since Jan. 1, 2007, who show no more than 2 misdemenor
and no felony convictions, pay a fine, and pay 3 years back taxes. After 5
years of this status, they can apply for regular permanent residency, if they
show all taxes paid, and have obtained a GED equivalent, and good moral
character for the 5 years. Finally, after 5 more years they can apply for U.S.
citizenship. People taking this route would be barred from sponsoring any family
members. I think such a solution or one similar would be a great boon to the
tax rolls and we would have far fewer people living in the shadows. Let's start
looking at the great majority of people who want to contribute as a potential
benefit. Those who cannot comply will be easier to find and remove.
A final comment is that it is currently not simple to immigrate legally. Those
who most want to benefit the U.S. economy, the entrepreneurs have the hardest
road to immigration. Simply google the start-up company in silicon valley who
had his case denied despite employing many U.S. citizens. It was approved only
after CBS ran a news story on it. Come to think of it Google's founder would
have a difficult time immigrating at this time. Current quotas for exceptional
ability Indian and Chinese individuals deemed to be in the national interest of
the U.S. must wait 5-7 years before obtaining permanent residency, about the
same time as a skilled cook or bricklayer. Even Senator Lee has
introduced legislation to ease the red tape for these highly skilled immigrants.
I had high hopes and childlike faith that Utah would set the example and lead
out in finding state solutions to problems that belong to the state. I lost that
faith for a while but once again believe Utah will set the example on health
care, education, immigration and all of the other social ills. Utah is in a
glass house whether it wants to be or not. And it is so because, in large part,
of individuals living in other states who have Utah roots or at least ties to
the LDS religion.
Right now I count the number of citizens comments' in favor of enforcement at 47
here on DN. I count the number of trespassing advocates at 5.Maybe
I'm stupid, but that makes me believe that legal citizens PREFER immigration
laws are enforced. Contrary to what Mr. Shurtleff wants us to believe.@ "NeilT" I hope you understand that most illegal trespassers
usually carry 2-3 sets of "i.d.". This allows them to receive
benefits in a variety of illegal ways."marcamus" Please
provide DETAILS of ANYONE being deported who is a LEGAL CITIZEN of the U.S.I agree with you though that e-verify would be a good start on controlling
illegal immigration. How would we KNOW they had been here since 2007?
Sometimes illegal trespassers are LESS THAN TRUTHFUL if somebody asks them about
details of their trespassing activities.
@1 conservative: Google the term deported u.s. citizen and you will
see examples. There was an especially eggregious case out of the Atlanta
Immigration Court where a U.S. citizen who had severe mental impairment was
deported. The ICE officers never reported his mental disability and the judge
signed off on the deportation taking the opinion of the ICE officer. The
individual did not have an attorney. My point is that if ICE officers can mess
up a case so badly, how will a backwoods deputy from rural Alabama who may or
may not have racist tendencies enforce correctly the law. The law stated an
individual could be detained and would not be eligible for bond if the
individual was suspected as being ilegal. The possibilities for mistakes and
even abuse against those lawfully here was simply too great which is why the
courts struck it down. E-verify would cause much greater
self-removal without the danger of lawful residents being locked up.
YES YES YES...The tide is definitely turning.....Gary Sumsion has just announced
he will challenge the pro amnesty Gov Herbert in the GOP primaryLet's hope Sumsion can defeat Herbert by a landslide.......Go Utah Delegates
and fellow conservatives....send Amnesty Herbert to the U looking for a job with
@ marcamus "The laws in Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina all
do one thing -- they make it illegal to even appear illegal which is why cooler
heads prevailed in the courts and struck down those laws."CNN
"Judge blocks key parts of Georgia immigration law ... "even after
this ruling, 21 of the 23 sections of HB 87 will go into effect as
planned," Olens wrote in a statement.I guess struck down means
something different to you.
@marcamusPolice in the US have the right to detain anyone until their
identity is proven. It's the law. If a person is driving without a license, they
can run a check on them, or have a friend bring it to them. Here on a visa? they
have to carry it with them at all times. Those laws were not struck down, only
parts were blocked temporarily. Mostly because they took immigration enforcement
from the Federal government. Unemployment is to high right now for
visas for people here illegally. Since they broke laws, including working here
(multiple felonies) they are not eligible for a visa or green card. Over a million people come here each year. We have no entitlement laws that
allow people to come when they want. They have to wait their turn. Some in the government did look the other way and not enforce the laws. That
does not take away their breaking our laws, there is no statue of limitations on
No AG Shurtleff the tide has not changed. You are trying to turn the tide ,but
failing. You have gotten lost in the concept of social justice. Joining you in
this quest is the LDS and Catholic Church . I am a Roman Catholic ,we invented
social justice.You wonderful LDS folks are novices at the game of social justice
and the guilt associated with with it. Do not go there! I moved to Utah a few
years ago to escape the results of the social justice concept on a city and a
region.I beg you to do what you have always done in Utah.Have a strong moral
light and committment to your God,keep your families strong and obey the laws.
No people I have ever lived among have ever been more committed to helping the
human race,and you have done it all w/o the secular concept of of giving man a
fish. You have followed the concepts of teaching a man to fish,an example of
this is Deseret Industries. If you allow amnesty in this state,look at Ca, and
many other states who blinked ,and their problems. Do not allow it!
I am pro-business and for free trade to export more US goods and services. Yet,
I am called a liberal by "Bag Man."I need a two-year work visa
to Brazil to sell my Utah goods or I need Brazilians to come here for 1-2 years
to buy my Utah goods. But, I can't get the visa because of their reciprocity
law; what the U.S. does to us we do to you. If we don't let workers in then we
can't work there either. So, Brazil trades with my competitors in other
countries. We are killing U.S. exports because of our fear of the world. Put,
up a wall around us and we will starve ourselves.
What a bunch of nonsense. Illegal immigrants are criminals. Period. Law
enforcement is the only way to deal with the problem. I find it very disturbing
when people try to portray illegals as victims, as if they were dragged here
kicking and screaming against their will. Nothing could be further from the
truth. They come of their own free will and for their own benefit and they break
the law to do it. Some will argue "They just want better lives for
themselves". So what? Don't most people? The difference is that most people
understand they do not have a right to acquire by illegal means those things
that they find difficult to acquire by legal means. And they certainly don't
have the right to do it in a foreign country. We should relentlessly enforce
immigration laws and also cut off all taxpayer financed services, including
education, to all illegal immigrants immediately.
If Utah and any other State wants the Federal Government out of their business,
Utah should stay out of Arizona's. Now the people in Utah can look forward to
anothr influx of illegal immigrants to wear down their social and educational
Have you read the Utah Compact? It does not condone illegal immigration. It
protects legal visitors and citizens and gives all people their day in court.Asking people that look like immigrants, brown people, to have special
documents at all times and can be asked for their documents without reason is
not only a violation to legal people and brown US citizens but sets the US as a
terrible place to visit.The Olympics asked people around the world
to come to Salt Lake for a visit, great for Utah business, but be prepared to be
watched closely by the authorities at all times and random searches.
Canyontreker- You are horribly confused. Authorities cannot ask people for proof
of citizenship or residency at random. The must have reasonable suspicion to
believe that the person is here illegally before they can ask for ID.
Example:Just having brown skin is NOT enough to arouse reasonable
suspicion. However, sneaking across the border in the middle of the night is.
Understand the difference?
Yea Majorie I believe you dropped the ball on the title big time. One person
gets narrowly defeated and now no one wants immigration laws to be enforced?
Riiiight. I speak Spanish fluently, have been to Mexico numerous times, love
the language, culture, etc. However, even after all my liberal professors tried
to brainwash me into thinking Hispanics/illegal aliens can do no wrong I finally
came to the conclusion it's wrong to believe that you are superior to the laws
and do not have to follow them.(no matter how good of intentions you have,
support family, etc) I know most illegal aliens are good people but that's not
the point. Just because you do not like the laws because you break them
everyday and certain segments of society have made it easy to be here and work
illegally does NOT change the fact that LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and my immigrant
ancestry in IMO feel like they have been slapped in the face for waiting and
waiting and waiting. Is that so hard to understand? Nothing ever seems to
change. This is sad. Truly sad.
I'm continually shocked by the anger and vitriol spouted by many on these
comment boards. So many cry for justice, which is fine. However, I remind you
all, "with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matt 7:2)The bills that the Legislature passed last year went a long way to finding
that delicate balance between justice and mercy on this difficult issue.I just wish Congress could do the same.
@ Canyontreker 10:47 a.m. Nov. 11, 2011 I do not know how you think
because you want free trade that I am calling you a liberal. The
topic is about illegal aliens coming into our country, unless that is what you
want when you say free trade. Do you want the illegals here to work your
business? We do need to change the laws to allow workers to come
her legally, but when they choose to cross the borders without the proper work
visas or or other documentation then it becomes an illegal act and that is what
I cannot justify.
The tide is turning, but in what direction?
I actually don't mind the Utah Compact. I would even make an effort to sign it
if it was actually productive. But it's nothing more than a group of wannabe's
that have committed to inaction on our illegal immigration problems.I am not opposed to immigration--I'm opposed to illegal immigration. I have a
right to know who my neighbors really are. No, not the new names they received
through the "underground" Latino groups that channel tens of thousands
of Latinos into Utah. No, not the names that appear with their stolen social
security numbers so they can obtain jobs illegally.Come on in
through the front door, tell me your real name, and I'm happy to receive you.
It's easy to come to America legally...easier than most other countries! Even
for migrant work!
@ouisc"Immigrating legally to the U.S. is among the easiest
immigration processes in the world."Unfortunately, this is
absolutely not true. The immigration process to the United States is the most
competitive, and the most difficult in the world. If you are not a
"skilled" worker, immigrant visas will almost universally reject one's
visa application. This is why so many end up immigrating illegally. Not because
they prefer it to legal immigration. Generally, it is their only option.My source of knowledge: I'm a foreign service officer at a U.S. embassy.
I am around the process every day.
It is unnecessarily difficult to come to the "land of the free" right
now. Our new laws regarding immigration are contradictory, unenforceable,
unjust, and in some cases un-Constitutional. Why on earth would any liberty
loving American howl for more laws like these?For the vast majority
of us commenting on these boards, our ancestors came to these lands without a
15-year wait, a capped lottery, or bilking fees.This is relatively
new in America, this widely believed lie that those lucky enough to be born here
are entitled to liberty and that others should only come if they are already
rich or skilled (in other words already blessed with the potential blessings of
the 'land of opportunity').These popular ideas are founded upon the
additional enervating prevarications about the scarcity of jobs and the
necessity of our unfunded welfare state (that would work, the argument goes, if
people would just stop coming here and proving how unscalable the system is ...
those of us that are LDS should recognize that those same arguments work against
having multiple children in families). Children and immigrants don't steal
what's yours.I am grateful the LDS Church publicly supported the
NotBuyingitExactly, in Utah you can not hassle people because of the way
you look, thanks to the Utah Compact this story is being told.But, this
was not the case in AZ until protestors changed the law. It is also not the
spirit of the Alabama and Georgia laws.
At BagManThe discussion is about the Utah Compact. I felt from your
comment that you thought those that approved the Utah Compact were
"liberals". The Utah Compact is about treating alleged aliens fairly.
I care about the legal visitors and US Citizens of a different color to not be
assumed as illegal. They should not have to walk about with extra documents to
prove their legality.It is pro-business to open free trade and allow
visitors to buy Utah goods and services while in Utah. Some will have to live
here to represent their companies.I am surprised how many anti-immigration
comments assume all immigrants are illegal. I hope law enforcement does not
feel this way.
@Razzle2Absolutely no one has said all immigrants are illegal! If you have
ever traveled in other countries you know that you MUST have papers on you at
all times. If you get stopped for anything, anywhere and if you open your mouth
and do not sound or look like a native, they ask for papers to prove you have
followed the laws of that country. I have never once thought that was wrong or
racist. I was a guest in another country,I may have been there for work or
vacation and never once thought they were wrong. This is an insane conversation
that any of you do not believe people coming to our country should be exempt
from our laws.It is not racist,it is not wrong.Did your parents never tell you
about obeying laws and the reason for them? We do need to streamline legal
immigration but not accept illegals. Americans have a right to know who is in
this country and why,for our safety and economic well being. I want to be shown
the same respect that I show when I travel to another country.
The Salt Lake Chamber was talking about guest workers back in 2008. The Compact
was part of an orchestrated attempt to retain their cheap illegal labor. @Canyontreker, over a million tourists from Brazil visit Florida each
year. I don't understand your problem. They have a consulate in San Francisco
with a website. We are going to have a lot of servicemen and their
support people returning to this country. Illegal immigration is a non issue as
they need the jobs.
@MaggieI don't know how to be clearer. I don't care about the illegal
immigrants. But to argue that visiting people have to have their documents at
all times means that legal citizens need their docs too. If legal citizens look
like immigrants they can be hassled for not having proof of legality. It is not
a problem in Utah and the Utah Compact shows the rest of the US that is the
case. But, in other states and by some of the comments here we want immigrants
to have their proof of legality. So, even if you are a U.S. citizen you better
be able to show your proof at all times in all cases. Not a nice country to live
in or visit if you are different. And not a nice way to do business with the
rest of the world. I am an International Business man. I am usually welcomed
and encouraged to do with business with other countries. I want the same for
the visitors that I invite here and for the Utah travel industry too.
JBradySorry, but your figure is sooo old. I lived in Orlando when the
Brazilians used to come to the US by the plane load and filled our hotels. The
Brazilians are no longer able to come to the U.S. freely. The current
administration is up to 120 days late in visas. They claim they need more money
to keep up, but the total number of visas to the US has actually declined. Since
2008 the world travel has increased 26% while US export of travel, meaning
International visitors to the US, has decreased 17%. Senator Lee has a new bill
to streamline the visa interviewing process without spending more money. The
Senators from Nevada have a bill to make the State Department responsible for
the mismanagement of visas to the US. It is killing our business in Southern
Utah and I expect it is affecting our ski business too.
@Canyontreker, people here on a green card have to carry it with them at all
times. Same with someone here on a visa. Americans are required to be able to
prove their identity in a specific time frame. We have never had the right to
lie to police about our identity, and walk away with out them checking it out.
During the Vietnam war males over 18 had to carry their draft cards at all
times. We have the right to know who is in our country. @Cowboy Dude, 2010, Florida had 1 million tourists from Brazil, look it up.
There is 30 or so countries that do not need visas for us to visit, or for their
citizens to visit us. All other countries require a visa. If the business just
deals with Brazil, plan ahead and apply for the visa. We live in a global world,
if your going to do business nationally, do it within the law. You can't expect
the US and Brazil to change their visa laws just for you.
The part of the law that was not blocked is still in effect. Arizona's people
still support it. And it looks like the blocked portion will go before the
Supreme court. The same Supreme court that ruled that Arizona was within it's
right to make E-verify mandatory, and pull business licenses for hiring illegal
labor, another of Pearce's laws. He ran into a buzz saw of retribution against
Arizona for daring to enforce immigration law. Thinking the Utah
amnesty compact had anything to do with it would be a stretch at the very least.
Pearce's recall was the final straw and the determining factor for reasons I
absolutely, positively will not vote for a Mormon - any office from dog catcher
@CJ:"Bunch of baloney as usual,amnesty isn't going to fly this
year, next year,or any other time."Amnesty will fly... in
places like Arizona and California were the Hispanic population is significant
to swing the vote. Then, like a cancer, it will spread to other states.It's becoming the eleventh hour for the US. We are in the throes of
being taken over by our neighbor(s) to the south.
@The Rock:"'They work with the understanding that any children
born here are not citizens.' Then what are they?"Of course
they're citizens. But their illegal parents are not citizens and should be
deported. If the illegals want their kids they should take them with them as
they are tossed out. Otherwise the kids will become street orphans. Their
choice."You can't deport someone to another country unless they
are citizens of that country."You can't enter this country
unless you are invited/authorized.
@marcamus:"A final comment is that it is currently not simple
to immigrate legally."We currently don't need any immigrants.
We have 15 million unemployed Americans sitting home on their buttocks drawing
billions in unemployment benefits.
@Canyontreker:"Asking people that look like immigrants, brown
people, to have special documents at all times and can be asked for their
documents without reason is not only a violation to legal people and brown US
citizens..." Non-citizen visitors to the US must carry ID with
them at all times while here. If visitors can't be asked to show ID then there
essentially is no need for anyone to carry ID. Laws that are not
enforced/enforceable under all situations are not laws."... but
sets the US as a terrible place to visit."If the US is a
terrible place to visit, why do so many foreigners want to come here?"But to argue that visiting people have to have their documents at all
times means that legal citizens need their docs too."What's
wrong with that?"If legal citizens look like immigrants they
can be hassled for not having proof of legality."If you look
like an immigrant it'd be a good idea to carry ID... that is, unless you want to
be hassled."Not a nice country to live in or visit if you are
different."You're welcome if you're legal. Else stay home.
@CanyontreckerOne more time! Tell me what countries you go to for business
purposes that you do not have to carry a passport and produce it upon
request?I went through a red light in Ireland while negotiating a traffic
circle and was asked for papers for my rented car and my Passport.I was also
there for business purposes. Are you saying Ireland was racist? What is the
difference if we do this in our country. I have only been stopped in my own
country twice but I had to produce my license. I have to produce a picture ID if
I write a check in the grocery store for over $100 . What is wrong with you
people.It is not racist! In Germany I had to produce my passport before entering
a museum with my German cousin,Canada needed my passport and I had to answer
10-15 questions re reasons for traveling there and for how long.Every European
airport customs check does the same to some degree. I am sorry I just do not get
it,and I was still able to conduct my business in an orderly fashion.
In this recent election, it's been heartening to see some commonsense overcome
extremism around this country.
Wanting immigration laws enforced is only extremism to those that support the