Herbert is trying to save his job......but can this outweigh the Illegal Alien
sympathy he has supported in the pasty? Don't think so....
Another government money grab. If they don't get it from you one way they'll get
it from you another. The interstate highway system was federally developed and
federally funded. It was designed to provide easy *free* travel between the
states, not to be a revenue source.
@deltafoxtrot, tell that to the citizens of new york. practically the entire
I-90 within NYS is toll, and i can tell you first-hand that they do NOT use the
tolls to maintain that particular highway. it's littered with potholes, lots of
two-lane traffic only ... it's ridiculously out-dated, but for as much traffic
utilizes the I-90, precious few dollars get sunk back into that roadway.
Well, what do you know! DeltaFoxtrot and I agree on something :)
I would get behind this proposal as long as we could then implement tolls to
Arizona residents traveling on all freeways outside of Arizona.
But if the Teapublicans have their way, ALL our highways will be toll roads with
profits going to the corporations to which the roads were sold in return for
campaign funds.However, for a couple of posters above who may not
have lived back east, many of those toll roads that are now designated as
Interstate highways were actually built by private companies at the same time
the Interstates were under construction. They were then designated as
Interstates. There were probably a lot of political favors that helped enable
re: one old manYou mean back east where liberals run the States,
cities, and most governments? Is that where you are referring to "many of
those toll roads..."Pathetic..your arguments are full of
holes..but we expect nothing less from the left. Logic has no place.
@cmccab01 - I'm not sure what part of I-90 you are talking about. I drove along
it multiple times this summer and found it very well maintained and divided with
two lanes going each way. Last year driving out east I decided against another
toll (I-80/90 are toll across most of the midwest) and took I-86 across S. New
York instead of taking I-90, and I found that riddled with potholes.
It's amazing to note how bad the road quality on I-15 deteriorates the minute
you cross into AZ from either UT or NV. What is the likelihood that ADOT will
actually spend any collected toll money on actually repairing and upgrading
I-15? I'd put it around 0. I agree with belgie. Otherwise, DeltaFoxtrot hit the
nail on the head.
Totally off base, one old man.Interstate highways are yet another
expenditure explicitly allowed by the Constitution. Is it too much to ask the
Federal Government to do what it was created to do, instead of doing everything
it wasn't explicitly created not to?
I-15 crosses a little tiny corner of northwest Arizona. The issue of building
and maintaining this little stretch of I-15 has been a problem from the
beginning. The governors of Utah and Nevada should call upon Congress to annex
this area into either Utah or Nevada and be done with this problem for good.
Utah and Nevada have an interest in keeping this freeway open and maintained.
Give the land to one of them.
@bobcractchet, then they've revamped the entire I-90 because i lived out there
for many years, and even up until 2007 when i was out visiting my folks, it was
an embarrassment. anyone without a top-quality suspension system or whose
vehicle had higher-than-normal clearance was likely to require under-carriage
repair of some kind. i lived out there from the mid-80s until the mid-90s. from
96 to 07, those roads were worked on very little. friends and family from
buffalo to syracuse all complained about the ridiculous condition of the 90. i know of what i speak. the 90--just like most everything else in
NYS--is designed to crush your wallet. state taxes are insane. property taxes
can bankrupt you. and no--the cost of living out there is not higher. it's about
the same as out here, minus the taxes.
"Documents released by ADOT indicate electronic tolling technologies could
be used to exempt Arizona residents who live in proximity to I-15 from the
tolls". Seriously?The *only* Arizona town in that tiny corner
of the state within "proximity to I-15" is Littlefield; as of the 2000
census it had less than 1100 residents; hardly a going concern.Yet
for all the people from the Mesquite general area that may travel to St. George,
or the tourist traffic coming from Utah down to Mesquite, this proposed toll
will be unfair and burdensome.A previous commenter was right: if
Arizona has squandered their highway funds and ignored that stretch of I-15, the
surrounding states should not have to bear responsibility for Arizona's
spendthrift ways. Make the state pay for it.
Utah actually gave Arizona some of its freeway money back in the 60s to get this
section built, Arizona gave the same argument back then. I agree with Dutchman
to have that section annexed into the State of Utah and we'll take care of it.
It makes more sense than to continually hear the same sob story from Arizona
year after year. The have a port of entry there, shared with Utah, so they do
collect money for that portion in addition to federal funds they receive. Just
give it all to us and we'll maintain it.
You folks who know nothing about eastern toll roads need to do a little
research. Many of these were built during the Eisenhower administration -- or
were at least started then. If I remember right he was a Republican.At the time, this deal was touted -- by mostly Republicans -- as a way to
avoid using some of the taxpayer money designated by Eisenhower and Congress at
the time for roads that would help tie the new Interstate system to existing
roads. It was an early attempt at a business/government partnership.And isn't that what some of our Republican friends are pushing for now? I
think I've heard the word "privatize" bandied around frequently.
People might not be happy about a toll, but demanding that Arizona bear all the
burden of maintaining the very-difficult-to-maintain stretch of I-15 through the
Virgin River Gorge is unreasonable. Arizona gets practically zero benefit from
maintaining this route between Utah and Nevada; there's no Arizona community on
I-15 and the only nearby community is just 1000 people, so few Arizona citizens
regularly use the road and I-15 travelers don't spend any money in Arizona.Dutchman's idea of annexing the Virgin River Gorge to Utah or Nevada is
reasonable (though it may not fly with politicians). Both of those states,
unlike Arizona, have a strong interest in having this section of road
I think that they should take away some of Arizona's highway money and give it
to Utah or Nevada and then let that state maintain it for Arizona. Then it is
just a business deal where one state is contracting the maintenance to another,
no land swap.
A thousand years ago when I lived in Fredonia, everyone I knew wanted to secede
from Arizona and be annexed by Utah. Arizona's government hated Utah then and
apparently still does.I don't know if it is still the case -- and
hope it's not -- but back then people who lived in Utah but worked in Arizona
had to have both Utah and Arizona license plates on their cars and had to pay
income tax in both states.Maybe we need to give Senators Hatch and
Lee and Reps. Chaffetz and Bishop something to do besides pander to the Tea
Party. Couldn't they initiate a bill in Congress to change a few boundary lines
I think it makes sense that those who use the road should pay for it.
@Prodicus: By that logic why should Wyoming maintain I-80 between Cheyenne and
Evanston? All that road does is connect to Utah and it is completely deserted
for hundreds of miles at a time. The little towns that are on it are hardly
worthy of being called towns... they're more like settlements in the wilderness.
It's a federal road, it goes through your state, so you pay to
maintain it. That's the way it works for everybody else.
I agree with the annexation idea, and while at it put up toll booths at the
"very" start of the rock gorge and one off from I-15 at the
Littlefield exits manned by federal employees. Instead of charging tolls have
inspections of vehichles including trucks to stop drug runners. Now we would be
doing something, then do the same on I-70 east of Salina and west of Green River
in the rocky gorge areas. Then state, county and local police departments could
patrol the rural highways in their areas and stop this drug mess! Tech equipment
could be justified also!
Simple: Have Arizona deed the land to Utah. It then becomes Utah's problem.
DeltaFoxtrot, that comparison is ridiculous. Having I-80 connect Wyoming's
cities to each other and to other states is absolutely vital to Wyoming's
economy and Wyoming citizens' transportation. They maintain that road because
their state would dry up, shrivel up, and blow away with the wind if they
didn't.I-15 doesn't do anything for Arizona citizens' transportation
needs or for the Arizona economy; the only Arizonans who are connected by it to
anything are the 1000 folks in Littlefield. The two situations are completely
If the Arizona DOT isn't going to maintain the interstate with the highway funds
they receive then I agree, it should be deeded to Utah or Nevada so that it can
be properly maintained. It would be better for one of those states to start
reconstructing the road now than to wait until it becomes a logistical
Arizona is a desperate state poking around everywhere for revenues to patch up
their miserable budget situation. I applaud the Governor for registering his
strong opposition. Utah should simply annex that part of Arizona.
Interesting to see all the right wing people complain about "those who use
should pay" concept when it involves personal interests. Oklahoma is a Republican state and has MANY toll roads. Arizona gets little or
no benefit from I-15 so why should Arizona help Utah residents drive to Nevada
for their fun?Sounds fair for Arizona to make I-15 a toll road
through the Virgin River Gorgebut only if EVERYONE has to pay the toll
(including residents of Arizona) and all funds collected were use to maintain
I-15 in Arizona.
Maybe we could get Arizona to change their mind if Utah Taxpayers cough up 13
million dollars. We have done it before and darnit we can do it again!
You would have to admit it's a brilliant idea on AZ part. They are able to put a
heavy burden on non-AZ residents to cover the cost of their bridges. That makes
AZ voters happy and ticks off people that can't vote them out. For AZ
politicians it's a win-win situation.What AZ should do, is levy a
tax on Mexico for every illegal that crosses it's border and have Mexico
reimburse them for every illegal caught and returned to them, plus the cost of
repairing bridges. Not only do you solve the money issue for bridges, but, you
get rid of illegals to boot!
I do agree with Herbert for a change but I think he is in it for a different
reason, he's not getting any of the money from it.At the inception
of the federal highways system known as the interstate it was declared at that
time to be completely toll free roads and states are not allowed to toll them.
All these roads and bridges have been receiving yearly funding to maintain them
but all the states, including Utah have designated these funds as state property
to be used for other than roads and this is why the interstate system in such
disrepair, grand theft and larceny by every state.Utah's UDOT is
currently spending the hundreds of billions of dollars the federal government
has provided for the entire Utah state maintenance program on 50 miles of road
in northern Utah alone. The rest of the state is being denied any of the repair
funds to keep it all in SL county.The real problem of western states
is their denial to accept that the economy is depressed and that government
should be downsizing, cut spending, and cut growth, not up-sizing and demanding
more taxes and fees.
I like it. Annex Littlefield, NV into Utah. Problem solved.
Ms Molli, "I think it makes sense that those who use the road should pay
for it."That is a slippery slope to collect with tolls. With
that argument, we could just set up tolls on all state borders. ...an end to
the Interstate freeway system.
I'm not sure how it works, but I assume to annex land between states would
require unanimous majority approval from both statesplusapproval from a congress
that cant agree on a debt ceiling. Too much politics for this day.Baby stepshave Utah (or Nevada) take responsibility of the highway away from
AZ including all revenue from the shared port of entry.Eventually we
can talk annexing.
The problem is Arizona does not want to divert any money. This has been the
problem for decades. Before the freeway was built there was no highway in this
area. The old highway, U.S. 91, did not cross into Arizona. It looped out of
St. George and straight into Nevada. When I-15 was designed, it was decided to
take the freeway straight down the Virgin River Gorge and that would knock about
an hour off the travel time. It was the most challenging and expensive piece of
interstate at the time. Even then Arizona did not want anything to do with the
construction so finally, frustrated and fed up, Utah and Nevada loaned or gave
Arizona the money to build this section of I-15. Arizona has belly acted ever
since about the up keep.
How did this area including the highway ever become part of Arizona anyway. It
should be Utah territory and Utah highway. So annex the area including the
highway and be done with it. Arizona is so poor. Come on. There are other
highways in Arizona that don't have any economic value either. What about all
the stimulus money (which we don't have) the President has already authorized to
be spent on "shovel ready" jobs? This is another boondoggle. A toll
road will never happen on this federal highway in the Virin River Gorge. This
is a nonstarter.
An easy way to avoid paying the toll is to just take the old highway out of St
George that was in use prior to the freeway through the Virgin River Gorge.
Adds an hour to your drive time, but may be worth it.
The problem is that Arizona gets no benefit from this freeway, but they are
required to maintain it. Only Utah and Nevada benefit from it. I don't like
it, but I don't really blame Arizona for wanting to get some compensation for
having to maintain this highway. Arizona is cash strapped and may have found a
way to get some cash in. This might must be bad luck for Utah and Nevada.
If Arizona could have their budget not be upside down and actually keep a grip
on their money as the article says perhaps they would have the money to do what
is needed on the road to maintain it. I-15 is one of the main N/S corridors of
the nation and with that it connects from both of the borders mostly from Mexico
to Canada. A lot of commerce is carried on that route. Taxing that would be
unjust when we all are paying out taxes for the roads to begin with. Just keep a
bugdet Arizona and don't go under.
Arizona gets paid for that section of the road from the federal taxes. The
problem for Arizona is that it is out of sight for most of the Arizonans as it
is not on one of their main roads. They accept federal dollars they also accept
the responsibility for those bridges that are on Interstate 15, which is a
federal road and is for Interstate trucking and vehicles. Governor Herbert with
UDOT's assistance should keep I-15 a non-toll road through Arizona as it does
not make sense, in this instance.
UtahResident | 3:17 p.m. Oct. 27, 2011 Lehi, UT I think that they
should take away some of Arizona's highway money and give it to Utah or Nevada
and then let that state maintain it for Arizona. Then it is just a business deal
where one state is contracting the maintenance to another, no land swap. -----This is the perfect answer.
Dutchman your are totally upside down. Where do you think Littlefield is? It
isn't in Nevada or Utah, so where is it? The old highway did run through a part
Arizona. Look at your U.S. map!
Just a couple of thoughts as I read the comments....1. It's
interesting to note that many who hate Chaffetz actually agree with him on this
issue.2. Many people are stuck on "how does this road BENEFIT
AZ" when they should be stuck on the Constitution for interstate roads and
that AZ has received funds to maintain that section of I-15.3. One
old man: Where I grew up in AZ, we didn't hate Utah. Must be a border issue and
apparently you haven't gotten over it yet.I thought the Left was
always about what's best for the common good? Isn't it best for the "common
good" that AZ maintain a part of interstate that they have received funds
to do so?Ms. Molli: I guess we should put up a toll road on your
neighborhood road since you use it we should make you pay directly for it,
right? It's sad how misguided you are on all subjects...
BOO to Arizona! Charging toll on a freeway already paid for by taxpayer dollars
(including Federal and state gasoline taxes) is nothing short of highway
Some have suggested widening old highway 91 and bypassing I-15 in the Virgin
River Gorge. Great idea!! Utah could erect signs along the route renaming it
the "Moutain Meadows Massacre Memorial Highway".
If Arizona this part of their state is not worth anything, I do not think
Congressman Chaffetz should stop with Utah taking the road lets have Arizona
deed the land to Utah as well, may be we share it with Nevada.
If our Gas, Tire, and "all things automotive" (State and Federal)
taxes went in to an account to fund "transportation only" related
projects, We would have very nice roads and this piece of Hi-Way would be
maintained without any problems. But the taxes are put into the
General Fund. And is lost on pet projects not related to transportation.
In the more oppresive and corrupt days of ancient rome, they had this very
thing. In order to walk on the roads, you had to pay. We are not in a free
country where we cannot go where we wish. Nothing but oppression comes from
I studied this issue back in 1984 when I was a high school senior in Tempe, AZ.
In a research paper I wrote for my AP English class, I recommended solving the
problem by transferring the Arizona Strip (the area of Arizona that is north of
the Colorado River) to Utah and transferring an equivalent amount of Utah
(basically the Utah portion of the Navajo Reservation) to Arizona. It would
give Utah the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and Pipe Spring National Monument.
It would give Monument Valley and more of Lake Powell to Arizona. Obviously
this is a complex solution that would require approval from both states and the
US Congress, but I think it is the best solution.