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Blue roundup: Texas examining Big 12 options

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  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2011 10:58 a.m.

    Yup, the dominoes are falling.

    And BYU won't be in that domino line-up, so won't be falling, too.

    In time, BYU's independence will either be just plain fantastic, or the death of major sports at BYU. I doubt the latter, because that's not the vision of the school or its church. BYUtv wasn't created to fail, so it won't.

    One way or another, BYU will remain a national figure in college football. Bronco is dedicated to doing that. BYU's already proven they have BCS friends, so I'm not concerned.

    Sorry, Ute trolls, all your wishes otherwise won't be granted. Ask the tooth fairy. She knows.

  • CougarKeith Roy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    Teams like BYU, TCU, Boise State, Arkansas potentially, could help save the Big 12! Bring in Utah State to salvage and improve the basketball side, and you have a good viable conference again that WILL SURVIVE, and Thrive!!!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    The fans are the losers in this deal. Would OU fans prefer to make the 4 - 5 hour drive to Texas, Kansas and Missouri? Or do they want to spend additional time and money flying to Utah, Arizona and California?

    If the Big 12, as we know it, crumbles - look for the conference to cherry pick teams from Conference USA and MWC. Even if the current Big 12 media package is off the table, their media options are much more favorable than the media options in the MWC.

    I can see Houston, So Mississippi, Air Force, Colorado St back filing for the TX and OK schools. If Kansas and Missouri also leave; the Big 12 will pick up SMU, Tulsa, UTEP.

  • jazzfan14 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:36 a.m.

    @WhatsInItForMe: Becoming independent was definitely BYUs best option. But joining a BCS conference would have been better had that been an option. And if BYU has proven they have BCS friends, why didn't they get the same BCS treatment as Notre Dame?

  • flynn is the coolest Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:40 a.m.

    I guess one good thing for Big 12 schools- they'll rack up the frequent flyer miles in whatever conference they land in.

    The real shame in all this is that this new conference realignment illustrates something we all hoped wasn't true about CFB (it wasn't 20-30 years ago), but is now apparent. It's all about $$$. Forget about equal opportunity. Forget about competition. Forget about tradition and rivalries. Forget about the needs of these student-athletes (the ones that need time to study). We're all being exploited by TV execs, commissioners, AD's and University presidents who want to line their pockets.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    Big money is destroying traditional rivalries, and the loser is the fan of college football...

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    I do not believe this is the last of the conference alignment issues. I think that there are more moves and issues we haven't begun to see. Maybe even some we haven't even thought of.

    I also think that this will cause issues with the BCS, and may eventually bring it down.

    I am willing to wait a while longer, and let these schools and conferences do what they are going to do. When the dust settles, or at least it is played out a more, BYU will make the right decision for them.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 12:10 p.m.

    Anyone who is honest with themselves would put BYU in the top 50 football programs in the country. Use whatever method you want and they outpace at leas 1/3 of schools that are in AQ BCS conferences. There is no way to say that BYU would not be in the top 50.

    So we learn something about the BCS if BYU is never invited into an AQ conference.

    It isn't about competition.
    It isn't about college football.
    It isn't about the athletes.
    And it definitely isn't about fairness or even a perceived fairness.

    Anyone who defends the BCS is a fool, a tool, and disingenuous.

    After what happened to utah, TCU, and Boise, anyone from those schools who now say that it is legitimate, or even good for college football is lying. How soon they forget, when they get paid, and invited, as if that solves the original problem.

    College football will be a joke, without an earned NC, until they have a playoff system. Until then, I don't care where we play, as long as we get to watch the games.

  • morganh Orem, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    I agree with Starfarer and all the others who say BYU should wait it out. BYU will be just fine. They will have options, and I am confident that Tom Holmoe and the others involved will make the right decision. BYU will not go into oblivion like some people want, instead they will be around for a long time and I will continue to watch my team have success on the field.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:10 p.m.

    Oklahoma would be a great addition to the PAC-12. I'm not so sure Texas would be. They seem to the ones causing all the headaches. I'm guessing they are going to the ACC. It really is sad. On paper, the BIG-12 should be one of the surviving super-conferences. Its amazing how much damage Texas has done.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    WhatsInItForMe:

    "BYUtv wasn't created to fail, so it won't."

    Neither was it created for cougar sports. It was created for General Conferences, Firesides, and other religious programming. They cougars are just using a media outlet that was already created to promote their product.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:25 p.m.

    SpanishImmersed:

    "Big money is destroying traditional rivalries, and the loser is the fan of college football..."

    Correction: The loser is the fan of COUGAR football. Because they'll be left out again. Unwanted. Mid-majored. WAC-ish.

    But look on the bright side. At least their big brother up on the hill will be doing alright. With annual Accounts Receivables of $25-37 million, opportunities for Utah sports will continue to prove year after year after year.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:42 p.m.

    Henry Drummond:

    I agree with you that Texas may not be a good fit for the Pac-12, since they have shown to be boorish and uncooperative. But the ACC might be a good fit for them.

    Note:

    If...,er, I mean WHEN...Texas A&M joins the SEC, the SEC will look to add a 14th member. Most reputable sources indicate Missouri and Va. Tech would be their top targets. If Va. Tech heads South, the ACC will need to backfill their vacancy. As it is now, the top choices for the ACC would be Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia, but with Texas out there on an island, how could they not move to the head of the line with those choices?

    The ACC would be seriously weakened, and although they currently practice equal revenue sharing, perhaps they'd be desperate enough to humor Texas with their arrogant attitude of entitlement. Furthermore, as the Pac-12 and the SEC would have grown to at least 14 teams, the ACC would likely respond by adding 2 more....most likely from the 3 aforementioned Big East schools, and/or Kansas/Missouri.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    Funny how they clip Larry Scott's comment to paint a certain picture:
    Larry Scott said he prefers that the conference not expand...

    Sounds like no expansion, right?

    But he would reconsider if other leagues go past 12.
    The SEC is accepting Texas A&M, thus... the SEC is beyond 12 members.

  • flatlander Omaha, NE
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:47 p.m.

    The one poison dart facing BYU is if the conferences go to four 16 team super conferences. If they do then BYU will not be able to schedule any major power and will be left with lots of Weber States etc.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    @ Starfarer | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 13, 2011
    Mesa, AZ

    "College football will be a joke, without an earned NC, until they have a playoff system." So you are saying that BYU's 1984 NC was not earned and that College football is a joke until there is a playoff?

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    Sept. 13, 2011 1:52 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    Utah entered the PAC 12 with an athletic budget that was close to dead last in the conference, and the Utes will continue to have one of the smallest budgets in the PAC 12 until the Utes start generating funds of their own. Your "annual Accounts Receivables of $25-37 million" is nothing but a pipe dream -- it'll be 10 years before Utah gets anywhere close to that much.

    Meanwhile, Dr. Hill should be joining Colorado in doing everything he can to keep Oklahoma and Texas from joining the PAC 12; having two perennial Top 10 teams in the PAC 12 East will kill Utah's already slim hopes of ever winning a PAC X title.

  • SpanishImmersed Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    NV, I was speaking about UT-OU and alot of other rivalries that are in jeopardy as schools chase money instead of deciding a national champion through a playoff of current conference champions. Sorry to say, that in that scenario, Brigham Young would most often never be eligible as an independent. If opinion polls are totally removed from a playoff scenario, how would an independent gain access to a playoff unless a wildcard position were alloted to them.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 13, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    MUSSing with U:

    "...it'll be 10 years before Utah gets anywhere close to that much."

    Not so. It'll be 3. With Pac-12 Bowl revenues, plus their CCG, Utah will gross over $4.6 million annually. And that's starting right now. Television revenues will grow from 0% in 2011, to 50% in 2012, to 75% in 2013, to a FULL share of $20.9 million in 2014. So in 3 yrs, Utah grosses over $25 million GUARANTEED!

    The Pac-12 Network will add additional revenues to Utah's coffers, and at present, conservative estimates place that additional revenue at $8.3-11.9 million.

    So, as you can plainly see, the $25-37 million in Accounts Receivables is NO pipe dream. It's very real, and verifiable. The pipe dream would be if the Y ever grosses up to even HALF that value.

    And Texas & Oklahoma will not kill Utah's chances of "ever winning" a Pac-16 Championship. All it will do is kill is cougars' chances of joining a relevant federation of AQ schools. You'll be mid-majors forever. Haha!

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    Sept. 13, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "a FULL share of $20.9 million"

    This is the problem with your projection; the PAC 12 television contract is back-end loaded; it pays much less than $20.9 million in the early years of the contract. "Estimates" of PAC 12 Network revenue are meaningless.

    And even if your pipe dream was true, the Utes would still be receiving incrementally much less than almost every other school in the PAC 12 -- Utah can only raise ticket prices so far for that tiny little stadium of theirs until Utah fans start bailing on them, especially when Utah starts posting 6- and 7-win seasons -- see Huntsman Center.

    And yes, having Oklahoma and Texas in the same division as Utah, would kill Utah's chances of winning their division, let alone, the conference championship.

    PAC 16 East
    Texas
    Texas Tech
    Oklahoma
    Oklahoma State
    Arizona
    Arizona State
    Utah
    Colorado

    Even in a good year, Utah would be lucky to finish higher than 3rd in their division, and there would be MANY years when the Utes would finish in the bottom half of their division, making it unlikely that the Utes would even qualify for a bowl.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2011 2:59 p.m.

    @Naval Vet

    What I see is a fan who is not grounded in reality. $$$ are not going to translate into wins for Utah.

    There are lots of irrelevant programs in AQ conferences and Utah could easily end up being the next Washington State, Indiana, Iowa State, Duke or Vanderbilt -- big time conferences, small time programs.

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    No Ute fans under 5 believe in the tooth fairy!

    However if the writers who say that "BYU's already proven they have BCS friends..." I would respond who are these friends? What have they already done for the Y vis a vis the BCS? What have they said they are prepared to do with the upcoming super conferences are created?

    It seems to me that these unnamed "friends" have done nothing: what could they do the Y has never come close to having BCS qualifications?

    When the super conferences are created, and this will happen sooner rather than later, if the Y is not positioned in a conference they will find qualifying for a BCS bowl even more difficult for them than it was in the MWC.

    Norte Dame under this upcoming realignment may loose it exemption as well. I do think that the Irish will accept an invite to the Big X. Who will be the Y's white knight? Who will lead them to the promised land? Texas? Unlikely. More likely Texas looks economic and BCS reality in the face and joins the PAC12 with OU, OK State and perhaps Texas Tech. No such offer for the Y.

  • hymn to the silent Holladay, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:44 p.m.

    What we are seeing folks is the disappearing mid-major class. As super-conferences congeal to form a pseudo-playoff (who of us ever believed that every football program would take part in the playoffs anyway?) lines will be drawn to exclude programs and include others. Yes the fans want a playoff, the BCS and the conferences are just trying to figure out to cash in on this "marketing opportunity." Sad if this new good 'ol boys club excludes BYU. They are a good enough program to warrant a dance card. Utah's in, but adding more competition during the year cannibalizes teams that could get a playoff spot if they were in "lesser" leagues. Should be interesting.

  • BleedingBlue Provo, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:44 p.m.

    Dear Jazz Fan,
    They (BYU) have BCS friends, not relatives.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    Navel Vet
    BYU will do just fine. Football is not their major product. It is ancillary to their primary function of quality undergraduate education which is unequaled in the state of Utah.

  • Starfarer Mesa, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:56 p.m.

    Carnak

    Every NC is not earned. There is, nor ever has been a playoff.

    Does that take away from the fact that BYU has a NC? Not one bit. They got it the same way every other team has gotten theirs. Those who had votes voted. those who didn't complained.

    Those who played in second or third tier bowl games played for nothing. (Even though they want the world to believe that their BCS wins mean something.)

    Look at the circus that is college football today.

    Until there is a playoff, the BCS, and college football is a joke when it comes to crowning a NC.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    MUSSing with U | 2:52 p.m. Sept. 13, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    "Naval Vet"

    Naval Vet, I think that you are real close on the Utes financial issues, but I agree with "Mussing" about the on-field realities. BYU and the Utes will always be very competitive financially, in recruiting, and on the field. BYU can and will thrive as an independent or in a BCS conference.

    With the above in mind, if OU, OSU, Texas, and T-Tech join a East division of the PAC-12, in most years the Utes will tend to have losing conference records. I would wager that, at best, the Utes would win the Division once in every twenty years.

    The Utes currently have a better setup in recruiting by being able to play in Southern California every year. Playing in TX every year will do nothing for the Utes. Utah doesn't have much of a draw for Texas players. OU and Texas will always get the best TX recruits.

    Utah and Colorado need to do some self protection and fight any proposal to create PAC-16 East and West Divisions.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 3:59 p.m.

    Navel Vet

    Arizona was once one of the top programs in the WAC and the Wildcats were the ones who pushed ASU into joining the PAC.

    30 years later, the Wildcats still haven't sniffed the Rose Bowl -- and that was in a weaker conference than the PAC 12.

    Utah fans are simply deluding themselves if they believe that adding Oklahoma and Texas to the PAC 16 won't make it nearly impossible for the Utes to ever win a PAC 16 title.

    When Oklahoma isn't #1, like this year, Texas will be in the Top 5, not to mention ranked Texas Tech and/or Oklahoma State; and even if the Utes somehow manage to negotiate that impenatrable maze, a Top 5 USC, or highly ranked Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, Cal, or Washington would await the Utes in the championship game.

    Beating good teams on the road isn't something Utah does.

    Beating ranked teams on the road is something Utah almost never does.

    When was the last time Utah beat a Top 25 team on the road?

    Hint: It hasn't happened this century!

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    Truth Machine | 3:59 p.m. Sept. 13, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UT
    "...When was the last time Utah beat a Top 25 team on the road? Hint: It hasn't happened this century!"

    You are wrong. Check your facts. The Utes won two BCS bowls "on the road." The Sugar Bowl is in AU's backyard. Neither were neutral sites. The both BCS Conference fans traveled much better than the Utes.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    To clear up a misconception (maybe my bad for how I worded it), BYU's "BCS friends" are the many BCS schools willing to schedule games with BYU as an independent, NOT friends in the BCS organization itself.

    The point I was making is that BYU shouldn't have much difficulty getting enough good BCS teams to play them each year to keep BYU's SOS high enough to be relevant in the national BCS bowl picture, including a chance at the NC.

    BCS games might be front-loaded in September and October, but that's okay as long as the balance is there.

    As far as superconferences trying to exclude BYU by forbidding their conference members from scheduling non-conference games in October and November, that won't fly legally, so it won't be an issue. The Pac-12's current stance on that hasn't been enough of an issue to get stomped on yet.

  • stanfunky Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 5:19 p.m.

    Truth Machine said:

    "When was the last time Utah beat a Top 25 team on the road?

    Hint: It hasn't happened this century!"

    As with most Y fans, you have a short memory.

    January 2, 2009 was the last time the Utes beat a ranked opponent away from home, in a little game called the SUGAR BOWL. They defeated Alabama, who finished #6 overall that year but had been #1 until the SEC Championship Game loss to Florida a few weeks prior.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 5:43 p.m.

    majmajor

    The Utes won two BCS bowls "on the road."

    check your facts

    You can spin it antway you want, but a road game, by definition, is playing on the home field of your opponent -- For Utah that's playing Michigan in the Big House, Ohio State in the Horseshoe, USC in the Colliseum, and BYU in LaVell Edwards Stadium.

    Unless Utah 2004 played Pittsburgh at Heinz Field, it wasn't a road game.

    Unless Utah 2008 played Alabama at Bryant-Denny Stadium, it wasn't a road game.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    stanfunky

    "the last time the Utes beat a ranked opponent away from home, in a little game called the SUGAR BOWL"

    As with most Utah fans, you have a hard time accepting reality.

    "Away from home" is not the same thing as playing a road game.

    New Orleans /= Tuscaloosa
    The Super Dome /= Bryant-Denny Stadium

    Utah playing Alabama in the Sugar Bowl is a NEUTRAL site game for both teams, not a HOME GAME for either team, which is what it would take to make it a ROAD Game for the other team.

    If Oklahoma and Texas join the PAC 16 East, Utah isn't going to be playing road games against the Sooners in Phoenix or against the Longhorns in New Orleans.

    So let's try Truth Machine's question again:

    When was the last time Utah won a ROAD GAME against a ranked opponent?

    Hint: It hasn't happened this century.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Sept. 13, 2011 6:20 p.m.

    I can't see why our friends on the hill are having a such a hard time understanding the difference between a home game, a road game, and a neutral site game.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2011 6:39 p.m.

    Distance from Tuscaloosa to New Orleans = 290 miles

    Distance from Pittsburgh to Phoenix = 2,063 miles

    Distance from RES to LES = 46 miles

    I'll bet Alabama and Pittsburgh fans would be very surprised to discover that Utah fans considered the Sugar and Fiesta Bowls were home games for the Crimson Tide and the Panther fans.

    I'll bet nobody realized that Saturday's game was a home game for Utah.

  • RedUte MAPLE VALLEY, WA
    Sept. 13, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    I would rather finish dead last every year in the PAC 12 or 16 than win every game in a so-called independence and still be relegated to a third class citizen in the college football world. Do Cougar fans realize that The Utes worst case scenario isn't even obtainable by BYU? That's right, we could blow every game from here into eternity and will still be vastly better off than BYU. Little brother has been working out while big brother has gotten complacent. It was bound to happen. Go Utes!

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    Sept. 13, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    RedUte

    "I would rather finish dead last every year in the PAC 12 or 16 than win every game in a so-called independence"

    Thanks for confirming that the ONLY thing Utah fans care about anymore is $$$. As long as Utah gets their paycheck, Ute fans are content with being a PAC 12 doormat.

    Society is full of people who rub shoulders with the big boys, travel with them, go to their parties, even hang out at their pads -- they're called servants -- chauffers, maids, and cooks.

    Why do you think Utah was invited to the PAC 12?

    Enjoy being cannon fodder to help USC, Oklahoma and Texas pad their records while the real big boys compete for the real prize -- a national championship, and the prestige that ONLY a national championship can bring.

    Little brother is still little brother.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 8:10 p.m.

    @redute

    "I would rather finish dead last every year in the PAC 12 or 16 than win every game in a so-called independence and still be relegated to a third class citizen in the college football world. Do Cougar fans realize that The Utes worst case scenario isn't even obtainable by BYU? That's right, we could blow every game from here into eternity and will still be vastly better off than BYU. Little brother has been working out while big brother has gotten complacent. It was bound to happen. Go Utes!"

    Good grief. Only a utah "fan" would make such an assertion. What is it that would be so great about being a losing batch of bottom feeders?

    LOL!

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 8:34 p.m.

    TrueBlue | 5:43 p.m. Sept. 13, 2011
    Orem, UT

    "You can spin it antway you want, but a road game, by definition, is playing on the home field of your opponent -- For Utah that's playing Michigan in the Big House, Ohio State in the Horseshoe, USC in the Colliseum, and BYU in LaVell Edwards Stadium."

    Neutral fields, by definition, are neutral. They give neither team an advantage on location, crowd or environment.

    No, "On the road" means that you get in your car and drive somewhere. If both teams leave their home, both teams are on-the-road unless the field gives one-or-the-other a distinct advantage.

    Another way to define it is if a team has a definite advantage because of location. (i.e. Under this definition, (BYU vs. OU) Dallas stadium was a "road game," and (Arizona vs. BYU) Energy Solutions was an away game for AU (Basketball). If Utah plays a football game in Washington DC against Pitt (?), that is an away game for Utah.

    We can disagree on the definition of a phrase, but I look forward to a great game!

  • panamadesnews Lindon, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 8:48 p.m.

    To Ute fans: It sounds great to consider the possibility of having TX, OK, OK St, and whoever else join the PAC 12. However, you need to think about the negative aspects of it as well as the positive aspects:

    1. Greatly increased travel for team members and fans
    2. Costs, such as guaranteed tickets Utah will be responsible for if not sold
    3. More tough games each year
    4. Less home seating for Utah fans
    5. Spreading revenue with 4 more teams
    6. Difficulty of filling RES for home games with teams from long distances

  • RedUte MAPLE VALLEY, WA
    Sept. 13, 2011 9:22 p.m.

    Bottom feeders? So I amI assuming you'll want the leftovers? Oh, one of the good things about rubbing shoulders with the "Big Boys" is that you actually get to play with big boys week after week. But don't stress, I am sure Wyoming and Colorado State will still be more than happy to fill your schedule. What an impressive future for BYU football. Who wouldn't be jealous?

  • hohum Saint George, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    naval vet: You are right, u would be lucky to finish better than 4th in their division let alone the championship. But the u would belong and that is what so many brag about. So be it.

    The y will be fine.

    The bcs will be gone in 2.

  • hohum Saint George, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 9:55 p.m.

    Where or where is the talk of Rose Bowl, championship game in the pac16, nc that was the talk of the town before. I honestly believe that the hill people are now very concerned about their possibilities in the "super conference" now. They haven't had to play Oregon, Stanford etc, but now they can't avoid all of them. OU, OSU, Texas, TT, bad time.I want one u fan to come on here and say that they u will win the division and conference and nc.

    Biblical, crumbs fall from the masters table and the dogs are lucky to be there and get them.

  • Pagosa Kid SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 10:25 p.m.

    I am sick of all these University Presidents and Athletic Directors acting like spoiled professional athletes. I am so tired of the "all about me" attitude. There seems to be no loyalty among these University Presidents. When Oklahoma felt like they were not getting enough attention then they decide to take their ball away into the PAC 12. I found it interesting that the Missouri & Kansas Presidents expressed amazement and were upset that Oklahoma was doing this. Especially after all the Big XIX schools vowed solidarity just months earlier. Is there any honor in sports anymore. One would think University Presidents would be less like the professional sports athletes they are imitating. As for me - I'm sick of it.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2011 11:45 p.m.

    majmajor

    Having an advantage on a neutral field is far different from the advantage a home team has playing on their home field. Whittingham lost to every team in the MWC during the last six years, including MWC bottom dwellers New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State and UNLV. Utah hasn't beaten a PAC 10 team with a winning record on the road since Stanford(7-5) in 1996; and Utah hasn't beaten a Top 25 on the road since Oregon and Colorado in 1994.

    So what makes Utah fans think the Utes would have any chance of winning road games against two perennially Top 10 teams like Texas and Oklahoma, teams that Utah would have to beat just to win their division?

    If Utah's division consisted solely of Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State, and Utah only had to sweep those four teams to play in the Rose Bowl, the Utes would still have to get lucky just to make it a Rose Bowl once per decade.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Sept. 14, 2011 12:13 a.m.

    CordonBleu | 11:45 p.m. Sept. 13, 2011
    Park City, UT
    "majmajor,Having an advantage on a neutral field is far different from the advantage a home team has playing on their home field. Whittingham lost to every team in the MWC during the last six years, including MWC bottom dwellers New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State and UNLV. Utah hasn't beaten a PAC 10 team with a winning record on the road since Stanford(7-5) in 1996; and Utah hasn't beaten a Top 25 on the road since Oregon and Colorado in 1994."

    First, I am a Cougar fan. Second, I like the Utes. Third, I support every team in the state. Fourth, I am tired of some comments from both Ute and Coug fans that try to stick-some-meaningless-facts in the eye of the other team.

    I say "so what" to your comments. The fact is for the last 24 years the Cougs and Utes are equal competitors. They need each other, have the same quality athletes, and play a fun game.

    You can't ask for anything more except the annual Army vs. Navy game. Recently Army has had it rough(i.e. fighting 3 wars)

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    Sept. 14, 2011 8:36 a.m.

    majmajor

    What does that have to do with Utah fan arguments that a neutral site game is the same as a road game? If Oklahoma and Texas join the PAC 16, the Utes aren't going to be playing the Longhorns and the Sooners at neutral sites.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 14, 2011 10:54 a.m.

    Truth Machine:

    "When was the last time Utah beat a Top 25 team on the road?"

    By my count, the last time Utah beat a Top-25 team on the road was back in 1994, where we beat the Pac-10 Champion Oregon, and the WAC Champion Colorado St. Can YOU recall when was the last time the Y beat a Conference Champion?

    Hint: NEVER!

    While 16-yrs is a long time to have beaten a ranked team on the road, if we put it into perspective, it doesn't look quite so pathetic. For instance, Utah has only PLAYED 11 ranked teams on the road. And going 2 of 11 brings our average to 0.182. Nothing to write home about there, but at least we aren't 0.125, like the cougars. Since 1994, the Y has road victories over ranked TCU [2006] and Arizona St. [1997] teams, but losses to 14.

    So despite have been given more opportunities to push you win total to over 2, you failed.

    Edge: Utah.

    So your immaterial cherry-picked stats blows up in your own face. I don't do dumb things like that.

    Edge: Naval Vet.

  • fan in orem Orem, Utah
    Sept. 14, 2011 12:48 p.m.

    Naval Vet, Yes you do. You changed from ranked teams for utah to conference champions for BYU. A little sleight of hand, there, eh? You are bragging about an 18.2% winning percentage? Really? What a turd. And Redute, you sum it all up as a ute fan. "I would rather lose every game for the rest of eternity and make lots of money." Dude, people play sports to win games and be competitive, not sit on the couch and count your money. I hope your dreams come true, I really do.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Sept. 14, 2011 6:58 p.m.

    DNews Moderators:

    I don't know what you're censoring ME for. If you're going to let "fan in orem" get away with introducing the strawman argument of "You are bragging about an 18.2% winning percentage?", and then calling me a "turd", why was it not okay for me to call him out on his substandard comprehension level by reiterating my statement of "Nothing to write home about there..." and turn his "turd" comment back around on him? Come on now. If you're going to "throw the flag", you gotta call it both ways.