He invites Utah Mormons to join the party
As a practicing member of the LDS Church, I am flattered to know the Utah
Democratic Party considers me a "tremendous resource."But
I will continue to shun it until it lets people who oppose homosexual marriage,
abortion on demand, and unbridled spending inside its so-called "big
Alan, you don't know Utah democrats very well... there are several LDS Democrats
/ fiscally and socially conservative Democrats who are already members of that
big tent:- Senator Pat Jones, Senator Karen Morgan, Former Rep.
Trisha Beck, Representative Marie Poulson, Representative Tim Cosgrove, to name
a few ... not to mention the hundreds of other voting LDS Democrats who live in
this state. The thing about your comment just proves to me that
people don't go very far to look into things they don't know anything about.
The State Utah Democratic party platform does not encourage or endorse any of
the things you're referring to, but you wouldn't know that if you haven't taken
the time to get to know us.
In reference to Alan's post...the big tent means that you are welcome to enter
and support the issues of clean air and water for Utah, that all people should
have access to health care as well as other concepts on which we may agree. As
a delegate to the Convention, I strive to find areas where we agree and can work
toward. Mr. Dabakis realizes that folks often think we are miles apart, when in
reality we probably agree on at least 75% of important issues; please consider
this an invitation to join in a dialogue with others.
@Alan you are welcome in the tent believe it or no there are others that
agree with you on those issues, but understand it is not the republican party
where such views are just accepted out of hand and held over candidates heads
like a sword. If you think such issues should be a litanies test for any
candidate you may do better with the republicans.
I like the Democrats' "big tent" analogy.It reminds me of
a circus, which also has many acts, some believable and others not. And
circuses are full of clowns.I like circuses!Democrats,
however, tend to believe in such fantasies as big government being the solution
to everything; more taxing and more spending; less freedom- personal or economic
(unless it involves gays). Democrats also tend to believe in gun control, and a
weak national defense.Yes, I really do think I like circuses better
than Democrats. But both are fun to watch!Congratulations ot Dabakis, who really does seem to be a nice guy.
No self-respecting Mormon would should ever be a member of the Democratic Party.
Alan, you make me laugh. Barack Obama opposes gay marriage. There are many
pro-life Democrats. In addition, the pro-choice position is much more compatible
with the positions of most conservatives that government should get out of
people's personal lives. But perhaps the biggest laugher of all is the idea that
it's the Democrats who are unbridled spenders. Have you forgotten
that it was Republican George W. Bush who passed a completely unfunded
prescription drug Medicare program costing close to a trillion dollars? VP
Cheney said at the time that "deficits don't matter." How about two
wars started without any attempt to fund the cost of them? How about tax cuts
regardless of those wars and new unfunded social programs? Which President ran a
surplus for three straight years? That's right, Democrat Bill Clinton.Democrats are the big spenders? Yea, and I'm Santa Claus.
As usual, right wing comments to this article misrepresent the political views
of the majority of Democrats, If you want to see who really favors
"big" government take a look at the record of the Bush Administration.
I think that they were Republicans, were they not? Democrats believe in
effective and freely elected government. Republicans work to suppress the vote
and and "starve the beast". Republicans want a goverment that only
serves the interests of big business and the wealthy. Because most voters are
neither wealthy nor CEO's, the Republican party promotes and hides behind
socially provacative wedge issues as a means to fog up what is really
politically important. Sadly, it seems to work all to well, especially in Utah.
The Democratic Party should achieve a more prominant place in Utah politics if
for nothing more than to check the reactionary excesses of todays ultra-
conservatives. As a political independant, I hope Utah Democrats grow in
strength and become a more effective check against the ultra-right wing
Republican crazys now dominating the political discourse in Utah and around the
As a conservative member of the LDS church I feel welcome in the Democratic
Party where I don't always agree, but where we can disagree without being
disagreeable. I do not feel welcome in the Republican Party were I must toe the
party line or be dismissed, where there is no room for diverse opinions.
Oxymoron,"not to mention the hundreds of other voting LDS Democrats
who live in this state." out of the 3 million who live here? hundreds out
of three million?fair, honest, decent people do not cheer a
convicted felon (DeChristopher)homosexual marriage and abortion on
demand are inconsistent with LDS theology. "He is is idle
shall not eat the bread nor wear the garment of the laborer" The Dem
welfare state incompatible with LDS theology.
So....after having driven the LDS people out of their party for many years, now
they want us back. I think you're a day late and a dollar short. Most LDS
people have been made so uncomfortable in the Democrat Party, they fled many
years ago. The Dems have no one to blame but themselvesNo matter
what claims the state party makes, the fact is, the national Democrat Party has
gone so far to the left, that most Mormons just flat out can't be part of it.
The LDS people are taught to believe in personal responsibility, taking care of
themselves, traditional marriage, high moral values, right to life, free
markets, freedom and opportunity, etc., etc. The Dems support dependence on
government programs, gay marriage, abortion rights, socialized medicine and on
and on. Mormons just can go along. In order to be Democrats,
Mormons must adopt two competing philosophies. At this time in the world, the
Republican Party (although not perfect) is much more aligned with LDS beliefs.
Most Mormons easily discern this. Unfortunately, a few still don't get it.
DN subscriber: I am an independent who usually votes Democrat in Utah. I don't
agree with some of the views of Democrats and Republicans but I see them, more
than Republicans, as being a party of inclusivity in Utah. Please note I am not
talking about the national party but the state and local party. I voted for
McCain in 2008 but could never vote for Mike Lee. I could vote for him because
he is willing to work across party lines, understanding that half a loaf is
better than no loaf at all. What our country needs to understand
right now is that both parties (and their representatives voted in by use over
the last century) put us into our current economic situation. It can be fixed
over the longer term but if our representatives do not reach a compromise we
will see a domino effect worldwide that will have devastating effects on our
economy. So raise the debt ceiling and make cuts in federal programs, go back
to the tax rates in place before Pres. Bush and let's restore some fiscal
geedub, President James E. Faust, Second Counselor in the First Presidency of
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, was the Democratic Party
Chairperson in Utah for years. He served as a House Representative as a
Democrat. President Faust once said, "It is in the interest of
the Church to have a two-party system . . . . Both locally and nationally, the
interest of the Church and its members are served when we have two good men or
women running on each ticket, and then no matter who is elected, we win."
Dear Mike in Texas: I love the way Dems always reference George Bush. The
Republican Party is NOT George Bush. LDS and Republicans believe in traditional
and conservative values--not individuals. What Bush did or didn't do is largely
irrelevant to that debate.No one, who is not in denial, could
possibly think that the Democrat Party as it stands today is in any way
compatible with LDS principles in general. Ah, but you say that the Democrats
are more Christian. They want to help people. Republicans only want to starve
poor people and let old people eat dog food. Everyone should be forced to
contribute to these liberal causes because their heart is in the right place.
First, forcing others to do "right" is Satan's way. LDS
are taught that we should do good based on our own FREE AGENCY--not through
force. Second, these programs don't work, have never worked, destroy lives and
are bankrupting us. That's against LDS principles.Official
statements from the Church over the years, make it clear that we are NEVER to
accept government help. That is a violation of the admonition to be self
sufficient. Another Democrat priniciple bites the dust.
The fact that Dabakis is "openly gay" and elected to chair the
Democrat Party says it all. Very few Mormons will join their party and the Dems
STILL don't get it.
"Our state is not the Republican Party. People are looking for real life
answers to problems," he said. "I believe to my core, Democrats can
win in Utah. I believe that we can win, and I believe that we will win. Our
party is and must be the party of the big tent."I hope you are
right but its an uphill battle. For some reason we Democrats are perceived in
Utah and Idaho as being less patriotic and less faithful. I absolutely do not
see how that perception could be sustained by reading the Book of Mormon nor
looking at facts. I finally decided to stand up and not slink into a corner and
wonder why. But you have a better chance in Utah than in eastern Idaho.
Groeberg's father may have been the last Idaho bred Democrat.
Cats,"Official statements from the Church over the years, make
it clear that we are NEVER to accept government help."What are
you talking about? I've known multiple members who delivered their babies
thanks to the Oregon Health Plan and fed them thanks to WIC. I also know
members who receive government assistance to help with housing and Pell Grants
to help pay for college. All of this is done with full knowledge of their
bishops and they're all members in good standing. You seem to be doing what so
many members do: confusing their own right-wing dogma with Church policy.And based on your logic, why do we even enforce laws at all? Isn't that
"forcing" people to do the right thing?
"The fact that Dabakis is "openly gay" and elected to chair the
Democrat Party says it all. Very few Mormons will join their party and the Dems
STILL don't get it."This is a saddening post and one that makes
all LDS people look bad. The blind rejection of someone based solely on their
sexual orientation is entirely COUNTER to what the Church teaches. And the sad irony for you is that Dabakis actually has VERY good and close
relationships and personal friendships with LDS leaders and General Authorities.
I predict a wave of Mormon-movement to the Big D side. Mormons are generally
good, smart and brave people and the extreme ends of the Republican party (an
end that becomes wider every day, it seems) are filled with hateful, sheepish
and fearful people. And remember this about those people, my Mormon
friends--they DO NOT like you and they have done their best to make that clear.
This boggles my mind. It's like the ugliest girl in school has let the word out
that she doesn't want to date you and you're still trying to win her affections.
In my tent, I can argue with you all day on any issue you choose (gay
marriage, big govt, education, right to life, Darwinism, climate change)---agree
or disagree and still respect you and your right to hold that opinion. If you
honestly feel that Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh and
your Tea Party brotherhood will do the same--you are probably wading into that
extreme end I mentioned.
@geedubHmmm. I am pretty self-respecting yet I call myself a
Democrat. I taught a lesson in church today, attended all my meetings and love
my church, even if I don't hold the same political views as most of my ward
members. Thanks, though for making sure I am not welcome in my own
church unless I am a Republican. You've fit the stereotype perfectly.
@Cats,The church is politically neutral and believes there are good
values in both parties. I think it is sad that you actually think a vast
majority of women, if not all, getting abortions are doing it to avoid
responsibility and that a vast majority of people on welfare are being idle--so
false. The hate merchants of this country have you eating out of their hands
and keeping their evil empire going. What about there but the grace of God go
I?Why some LDS members do get it and do vote Democratic: ministry
of Christ taught serving others (welfare), supporting government (12th article
of faith), a rich man entering heaven would be tougher than a camel going
through the eye of the needle (warns of the evil of greed--which is why the
democrats favor an economic agenda geared towards the common good and not the
based on the elite), not judging others (good Samaritan), loving everybody, free
agency, etc. @geedubSelf-respecting Mormons don't judge
others or cast stones. Statements like yours can push some good people away
from the church. I am both proud of my faith and my politics.
I can't imagine voting 100% along party lines. I vote for the individual
candidate who most closely represents what I believe to be prudent, responsible
policy. Both parties have so many candidates that are so extreme in their views,
voting only along party lines perpetuates blind allegiances. Take the time to
understand a candidates point of view and vote accordingly.
Let's try spreading the truth a second time. President James E.
Faust of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints
was the chairperson of the Democratic Party in Utah. He once said, "It is
in the interest of the Church to have a two-party system . . . . Both locally
and nationally, the interest of the Church and its members are served when we
have two good men or women running on each ticket, and then no matter who is
elected, we win."Faust also said, "I am liberal in terms
of human values and human rights. I believe what it says in the Book of Mormon,
that the Lord values all of his children equally black and white, bond and
free, male and female, Jew and gentile and that the Lord likewise has
compassion for the heathen.
Democrats in Utah have always been significantly more conservative than
nationally. I've voted for Democrats locally, but Congress is a different story.
I still don't trust or approve of the direction of the party nationally and do
not wish to give persons with political persuasions so different than may own,
like President Obama or Pelosi leadership of our nation. I like Obama
personally, but we have nothing in common politically.My grandfather
was a Democrat, my father a Republican and I a Republican. My grandfather said
late in life that the Democratic party had left him. I still feel that way. I
believe the party began to trade entitlement benefits for votes. They adopted a
populous tone, and redistribution of income structure that has gone too far.Having said that, I also feel that the Republican party is leaving me.
It is no longer the party of limited but wise government, of economic
development and a strong national defense. It is now becoming the party of the
far right of our nation. It's gone from conservative, to confrontational and
brainless, an angry ignorant mob. If this trend continues, I'm afraid neither
party can represent my philosophy of good government.
To embrace the ideology of the Democratic Party the LDS simply need to do the
following:1. Accept elective infantecide as a means of birth control
and a womans right.2. Accept the notion that the dole welfare lifts and
improves man rather than creating dependence, despondency, and degradation.3. Embrace lifestyle choices that are contrary to the Word of God, celebrate
perversion in the name of diversity, and stand on the sands of moral relativism.
4. Remove any semblance of God from our government.Yes, for
the LDS, I can see how tempting is an invitation to join the Democratic Party.
The thought of joining ranks with Harry Reid is surely almost too much to
@bglHave you ever talked to a "tea party" person? More than one?
What I find funny is that you call a group of people who share a political
philosophy hateful and fearful. I've rarely been to some political meetings, but
you know what I find when I do go? Diverse personalities. Shared ideals AND
differences of opinion. Outright racist remarks on immigration AND open,
concerned discussions about immigration policy. You are mistakenly stereotyping
all followers of a political idea, and your comment only further drives people
away from the party you support. I'm pretty sure you are a pretty open,
thoughtful and accepting person, but after reading your post, can't you see that
you seem like anything but open and accepting?
@Cats Free Market? The LDS religion is a world-wide religion and
encompasses many form of governments. Yes, the Book of Mormon talks about
freedom and we do value it, but that is not the same as free markets. Please
tell me any doctrine where the free market is specifically discussed. Nowhere in the New Testament did I read about trickle-down economics, tax
breaks for the wealthy, etc. In fact, when the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus,
he said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." I don't recall him
saying, "Oh no, we are taxed enough already and we need government to get
out of our way." In fact one verse may even get you a little frightened,
the verse where Jesus throws the moneychangers tables at the Temple. That's
class warfare, isn't it? Sounds like socialist rebel-rousing to me. The early Saints lived the law of consecration--shared property, goods, and
profits. Do you think less of them? If that law was restored in the future,
would you follow it? Free Markets as an LDS value, thanks for the laugh.
Conservative members of the LDS Church are opposed to abortion on demand unless
the health of the mother is in danger or in cases of rape or incest. For that
reason it is hard for those members to align themselves with a party that does
not share those values.
LDS democrats that I know very well are democrats for these 3 reasons: out of
tradition (their parents or grandparents were democrats), they are misinformed,
or they are rebellious.
I am LDS and worked for the Church. I am a Democrat. My parents were
Republican. I am not rebellious toward the Church or the country. In fact, I
am highly patriotic. I am a retired professor from BYU where half of the
faculty vote for a Democratic Party candidate for president. I am not
misinformed. I spend about five hours per day keeping informed about all the
issues and concerns that face our country. I love God, our living prophet, and
the restored Church. I believe the worth of souls is great in the sight of God.
I go to the Utah State prison weekly to serve my fellow beings there. Please
don't tell me that I have no place in the restored Church of Jesus Christ. I
would never do that to any of you.
I wonder if a hugh number of LDS affiliated with the Democratic party in Utah,
and then started moving it "right" whether they would still be
welcome?Who determines the platform of the Democratic party in Utah?
Is it them general membership, or is it the leadership? And herein
lies the problem: If hugh numbers of LDS affiliated with the State Democratic
Party, and then saw that they were considered votes only, and not allowed to
have an influence, would they stay?I went with my wife to a
neighborhood caucus some years ago. At one point she expressed an idea that
would traditionally be considered "conservative." She was told by a
woman in control that that idea was not Democratic, and therefore not acceptable
(it had to do with limiting spending.) She has never been back.
I remember when Debakis was on the radio. I seem to remember him bagging on
Mormons all the time.
I feel that both the Democratic and Republican parties represent extreme views
that are not in perfect harmony with the restored gospel, which is why as a
latter day saint I do not identify myself with either. On the one hand, the
Decmocrats have many liberal views which are in direct contradiction to gospel
principles, but on the other, I have also found the Republican party to be
fillied with selfrighteous hypocricy. I mean, how do you stand for religious
freedom and at the same time seek to impose your religious views into politics?
How do you call yourself a Christian and seek to deny welfare to the less
fortunate because you feel they are just being lazy? How do you support the
deporting of immigrant families based on nothing more than principle? How do you
defend capitalism so much when the kingdom of God in its purest form is a
socialistic government? I could go on and on.
Lost in DC....are caring for those less fortunate that yourself (see Matt 25 and
Mosiah 4) be considered as "not compatible with LDS Theology? Please
review them and see what you think. You might find that they are not all that
compatible with what some Republicans espouse...see what you think about that