This man needs help. Badly. I feel sorry for him. Mental illness is not a joke.
Hopefully he can get the help he needs. My heart goes out to him.
I know the prophet is a busy man but would it hurt to strip the man clean first
to make sure he's not concealing any weapons and then have a couple of security
folks accompany him to the office of the president to see what he wants to see
him about? Who knows but that maybe a visit with the prophet would help him
solve some problems he's having? If he is not crazy, then constantly arresting
and throwing him in jail is silly. If he is a looney, then they should just put
him in a mental institution where he can receive help. Curious what the prophet
thinks of the whole thing?
I understand it isn't at all unusual--individuals who claim to be the prophet or
Christ hang around the Church Office Building trying to take over the reigns of
the Church or get some sort of attention. This sort of thing goes on all the
time. Church security has to do everything possible to handle this sort of
thing in the appropriate way. Apparently they have tried for a while to deal
with this guy. It's a sad thing, but they must put safety first. I hope this
guy can get some help.
Ree: thebigsamoan | 5:58 a.m. July 9, 2011 Suppose I wanted to see
President Obama. I know the President is a busy man but would it hurt to strip
me clean first to make sure I'm not concealing any weapons and then have a
couple of security folks accompany me to the office of the President so he could
see what I wanted to see him about?The answer is 'NO'. That just
isn't the way it works.
No doubt the security people have a pretty good idea what the guy wants. They
usually ask those things. If the fellow can't articulate why he wants to see
the President, then they are immediately suspicious of his intentions.I don't think that they are as worried that he might be carrying a weapon -
that would have shown up on prior police reports. I think that they are more
concerned that he will try to embarrass or harass the president.Historically, for maybe the last 50 or 60 years, pretty careful screening has
been done.People who want legitimate appointments with leaders of
the church can usually get them through the usual appointment making process.
The rest are flakes.
I have a close relative who works with church security, and this kind of thing
is a REGULAR OCCURANCE. Security tries to handle it nice and quiet, but at
certain times the aggressor won't quit! That is when the charges are filed, and
frankly charges are filed more often than you might think. The other comment was
right, there are people who claim to be prophets, prophetesses and Christs and
Heavenly Messengers all the time who want to speak to the Prophet or Apostles.
They seem to FLOCK to the office building! Deseret News could be half filled
with the stuff that actually goes on at church headquarters every day if it
reported "EVERYTHING" that was wierd going on there! Why this one
case? I am sure if every threat, whacko, and security holding was reported, most
people would be stunned at how much abuse and how many wierdo people their are
that try to see the general authorities! In some ways they are better equipt
than the federal government to handle things. They have a system to file
everything away on anyone who has ever had an issue in defense or against the
church. It's amazing!!!
If he is homeless he will get meals, shelter and medical attention for free.
This sounds like a smart homeless person.
With the number of homeless people I've seen wandering the streets of Salt Lake
City, I'm not surprised some of them seek the comfort of the wonderful church
buildings. What is the church doing to help these people? We send millions to
help those in need around the world, isn't there anyway to clean up the streets
at home by employing these folks and getting them housing?
My 2 cents is right. Two times on my mission I had the opportunity to meet Jesus
Christ. ( At least they both claimes to be, and neither were this guy ) 4-5
times I met people claiming to be a prophet. I served my mission in Southern
California. It's sad to see and talk with those with mental illness. But the
problem lies in not knowing what will trigger potentialy dangerous behavior.
Sadly it is more common then most of care to think about.
JKCook, do you not pay attention when the Church is all over the United States
helping with the poor, helping with the victims of great disasters, helping with
the homeless, the mentally ill, etc.? Not every mentally ill person is
employable, not every homeless person wants to live in conventional housing, not
every person wants help. The Church has social services programs in every
community, and they hire people all the time to work at Deseret Industries and
other programs. There is nothing wrong with seeking comfort in a wonderful
church building, but when the person is asked to leave and refuses, over and
over, then something else has to happen. I would venture that if he walked into
the visitors center and just sat for an hour, no one would bother him. But when
he demands to see the President and is told to go through the proper channels
(as everyone should do, as correctly cited by Rifleman in his post), and
refuses, then he has to be removed. His choice is how he is removed.
President Monson is busy enough more than not he probably was not there anyway.
And most people dont't know that this was probably not the first time this has
happened but happens on a regular basis. As Rifleman said about Obama,this
probably happens in DC several times a day..
Charged with stocking, hugh?? I think the church of latters days saints may have
been able to handle this differently?? Just guessing but the security at around
the temple square seems to a bit over the top.
Re: jkcook | 11:08 a.m. July 9, 2011 Your question surprises me.
Are you aware of the service missionaries that provide support, or the LDS
Church welfare program that provides food and other assistance? Were you aware
that when disasters strike the LDS Church sends supplies to many nations.The LDS Church has members worldwide, and does not limit their support
to those living in Salt Lake City.
Jesus would not have turned this man away.
"I know the prophet is a busy man but"But what? Stop all
work, all meetings, all of the little amounts of time he has to spend with his
family, stop doing work for the Church, charities, planning many other things
that help the world greatly... stop it all to meet someone who wants to meet
with him? Yes, there are plenty who deserve to meet with someone who can
help...BUT, if he stops for one... then he has to stop for
another... and another. When would it end? - The man has local church
authorities with the priesthood who can offer just as much assistance to someone
as the Prophet. The power of God is no less focused for a bishop as it is for
the Prophet. If one has faith, anything can happen.By all means, the
man is free to make decisions... this one was unwise and the Church and
President Monson did nothing wrong. Hopefully the man will seek help properly
and finally something learn from these attempts.
RE: mightymiteRead up a little on LDS church history. You will
quickly discover why church security is 'over the top' in matters like this. In
fact, mightymite, I'm not sure if you actually read the story, but this man came
back 5 times and refused to leave. That sounds a lot like stalking to me.
Sorry to stirke a nerve "B" but I think it could have been handled a
little better. If as the story reads this man claims to be Christ; which little
could think as valid and equaly so little think that monson is a prophet. Maybe
there could be some discourse. Just a thought......
It is unfortunate that this poor soul has issues. It is likewise unfortunate
that he couldn't be ushered in the Church office building, but in reality, he
isn't a 'known quantity' in terms of mental stability nor level of danger. To
those who suppose that he should have been let into the offices of the church
despite having been asked to move on, would YOU PERSONALLY be willing to allow
this person into your home despite having asked him to leave your property
repeatedly? Would you feel comfortable allowing him to come around your
children, your spouse and your property without first knowing if he was
dangerous? People do not need weapons to cause harm to another person and if he
had been received into the Church office building and then became violent, how
might he have been treated at that time? Common sense dictates a measured
approach and a system for safely admitting persons into the building, just as
common sense dictates whom you allow into your home or workplace. Just because
it's the Church office building doesn't mean they have no need of security and
mightymite- " If as the story reads this man claims to be Christ; which
little could think as valid and equaly so little think that monson is a
prophet." Lets see 14.1 Million people believe President Monson
is a Prophet..1-Person believes he is Christ.Is that what you
consider Equal?The President of any orginization.. for example the
Roman Catholic Pope,President Obama, Apple CEO Steve Jobs, they most
likely wouldn't have dropped everything and laxed their security just to meet
with this guy. He could have followed the procedure to request a meeting. I
think the Church handlded this situation pretty well. Security over the top huh?
Yea for being one of the most persecuted churchs around the globe... hmm.. NO
not over the top.. Safety is pretty important thats why they have so much
This is my brother that I have been trying to find for the last 4 years. On one
hand I am so happy that he is alive and on the other hand so sad because of
where he is. I love him and will find out what I can do to help him get the
help he needs. Thank you for the kind and concerned comments that have been
Re: mightymite | 11:36 p.m. July 9, 2011 No one is forced to believe
that President Monson is a prophet. Certainly Jesus never forced anyone to
believe He was the Savior. I'm not sure what point it is that you're attempting
to make. And no, the man wasn't charged with 'stocking'. Those are
things you wear on your feet. The Deseret News got it right when they reported
he was charged with 'stalking'.
OK. I don't know why this comment was denied the first time. Someone
posted "Jesus would not have turned this man away." From
my reading in the scriptures Jesus Christ can read man's thoughts. It's my
understanding only he and Heavenly Father could do this. In The Church of JESUS
CHRIST of Latter-day Saints we believe our Pres/prophet receives revelations
from God. We don't know if Pres. Monson may have wanted to speak to him, but the
Spirit told him not to do it. Oh, and I just remembered that sometimes Jesus
did not go himself to cure the sick in the scriptures. He sent his Apostles to
do the work of helping the sick receive healing.
@ RifleMan, B and Voice of Reason:Not to place any blame on President
Monson. He may not have even been made aware of it at the time. But you're
comparing the President of the LDS Church to the President of the United States?
Yes, they both need security measures. But you're forgetting that there is a big
difference. Or there should be. The US President's job is to run the country.
He's not a spiritual leader. And a polititian is self-serving by definition
anyway. People expect him to turn someone like that away. A prophet's job above
all is to be Christ-like and set an example... I think. Why do I have to point
this out? Christ was a busy man also. And if he'd had better security, he might
never have had the opportunity to perform some of those miracles.
I doubt that anyone is attempting to compare President Monson to the President
of the United States. As was mentioned he is a political leader with no
knowledge of spiritual things or even how to help a person with spiritual
problems. He barely has the ability to take care of political things other than
destroying the Constitution of the United States. President Monson holds the
Priesthood of God and does the will of our Father in Heaven. There is no reason
to believe that if Christ had better security he may not have performed
miracles. Jesus was the perfect son of God, he had 12 disciples who followed him
and taught many the message he preached. President Monson likewise teaches those
lessons as well as performs miracles in behalf of Christ. There is an
appropriate way to gain a meeting with the Prophet of God through the proper
channels. As a member of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints,who
holds a Temple Recommend I can assure you that even I could not just walk into
the Church Office Building in Salt Lake and demand a meeting with the Prophet.
kerrisally- I am so very sorry that you had to find out about your
brother this way. I'll keep you both in prayers. God be with you both. :)
kerrisally - I rejoice with you that you've found your brother. How
horrible it must have been for you not to know where he was for four long years!
I can't even imagine the nightmare for you and your family.You
might be sad to know where he is, but at least he's (probably) safe, and
unlikely to disappear again before you can make contact with him and help him
get the help he needs. It's good to know that this man has family who loves him
and wants to help him get well.My best wishes to you, and to him.
mightymite: I would love to have a discourse with you, but first you simply
need to learn to write. I just can't understand you. Maybe I am dumb. At any
rate, anyone who refuses to obey the law by trespassing on private property
after he has been asked to leave five times needs more help than seeing the
prophet can give him. Hopefully he will get the help he needs now, especially
after the post kerrisally wrote. I wish him well and hope that with his
family's help, he will become a constructive member of society.
Sadly, this man is probably mentally ill. The mentally ill do not make rational
decisions the way that most people do. I have a mentally ill brother that has
spent time in prison because of poor decision making. He does not have the
capabilty to make wise decisions. He will never be a productive member of
society. He has been committed to mental institutions by himself and family
members. Since he doesn't have insurance, he is released within a few days. Our
society chooses to incarcerate the mentally ill. I also work in a library that
is frequented by the mentally ill. It's a public place. Even unarmed, they can
be very scary to the patrons and staff. A book hurled across a room because of
an imagined injustice can do serious damage. Security made the right decision.
The safety of a crowd is more important than the wants of one individual.
Incarceration is not the most cost effective way of dealing with the mentally
ill. But it is not a problem to solved by the LDS church. Kerisally, I hope you
have the resources to help your brother. My family doesn't have the resources to
care for my brother.
Re: IamMe | 10:14 p.m. July 10, 2011 So you're suggesting that the
Catholic Pope should be expected to grant me and about 10 million others a half
hour each to hear our concerns?President Monson is only granted 24
hours a day to do his work. Subtracting a little time for sleep, and maybe a
little time to be with his family doesn't leave much time for the work that must
be accomplished. A wise man spends the limited time available to do the most
good for the most people.
While I understand the concern who in their right mind would try to harm the
prophet (key word right mind)does he not possess a fairly imposing stature?
Does not make sense to me. Man was possibly a little crazy.
@ArizonaboyActually they WERE comparing Pres Monson to the Pres of
the US in that they are both too busy to see the common-ers. But I was trying to
point out that there is a difference. And simply threw in the fact that Christ
did spend time with the common-ers. I was making a joke about the probable lack
of security in Christ's time (no disrespect intended) and I was not expecting a
discourse on what a terrible US Predident we have, nor was I hoping to provoke a
lecture from a fellow temple-worthy member. Lighten up. Of all the
I am glad there are so many people willing to direct President Monson on how he
should behave. His youthful naivete makes him so vulnerable to rash and
irresponsible behavior. I sure hope he reads these comment boards to learn what
he should be doing.
Rifleman, You ignore that as a private organization the Church does not
have the same rights as the government to strip search people. Their main
recorse against disruptive people is the tresspassing statutes.
The Church runs Deseret Industries and donats large sums to homeless shelters
and in other ways seeks to help the poor. This man was actually employed
priviously at a bishops storehouse but was fired due to assaulting another.The underlying problem in many cases of homselessness is mental illness.
The Church as a private body can not force people to take medications.
Anyone who thinks President Monson is "too busy to spend time with
commoners" is just not in touch with reality. However the question here is
how much time he should spend with mentally-ill people who are out of touch with
reality. Beyond this, it is possible President Monson has met with this guy.
The question is not a one-time visit, but repeated long visits.
Jesus was a busy man. Would he of turned down a homeless man?President
Monson is not Jesus!
If that homeless person came to looking for wanting to meet with our savior
Jesus Christ I know He wouldn't turned him down.Jesus Christ I know has more
faith than I can imagine and I know that President Monson believes the same.President Monson is a busy man and probably wasn't around when it happened.but hopefully in the future it'll be pretty cool if he does give the man a
chance to talk to him face to face.=)John 3:16 "For God so
loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in
him should not perish, but have everlasting life."