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Red roundup: Jordan Wynn gracing magazine covers

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    BCS game - check(twice)

    BCS win - check(twice)

    BCS conference - check

    BCS quality athletes - check

    BCS quality coaching staff - check

    The future of football in Utah, is Utah.

  • MESOUTE Karchaj, A.V.
    June 16, 2011 1:22 p.m.

    "Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure. Exposure. Exposure."

    See, we can say buzz words too. Thank goodness we don't get as caught up in them as others.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 16, 2011 1:37 p.m.

    Jordan Wynne can't be on the cover because the trolls made sure to let everyone know what an exclusive honor it was that heaps was on the cover.

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    June 16, 2011 1:44 p.m.

    @MESOUTE

    And yet, here you are on an article about your team, focusing on mine. It looks like perhaps you DO get caught up in them.
    =====
    Congratulations to Wynn. I hope you do well this season in your new conference.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 2:13 p.m.

    "relevance" is not a buzz word for BYU, unless it was used in the early 1980's. the relevent non aq teams from the last decade, tcu, bsu, and utah have all been invited to upgrade leages, been undefeted, been to bcs bowls won bcs bowls - and in utah's case, won 9 bowl games, beat more bcs schoos, and had best winning % against them of any non aq. Oh and all three of those schools have better records against ranked opponants and BCS teams than BYU. LOL.

    "exposure" is not a buzz word for BYU, unless it is intended to describe byu playing thier weakest SOS in decades (112 out of 120 according to phil steel's website).

    What those words mean to Utah fans:

    Relevance- reaching the top 5 of the polls 3 times over last 7 years (byu's last top 10 appearance? 1996) finishing in the top 4 twice. Two bcs bowls/wins, nine bowl wins (best in nation)crushing ranked bcs opponants. Getting the HUGE pac-12 invite.

    Exposure- pac 12 staduims on the road, pac 12 teams at home, auto bcs bid, at least 9 national tv games/year starting 2012.

    REALITY for Ute's- not buzz words

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    June 16, 2011 2:17 p.m.

    I thought you had to be an "All American" candidate to get on a cover. I thought unless you were zoobieTV you could not get recognition. I thought unless you win the New Mexico Bowl, you couldn't get any props. What a surprise!

    It is cool that Wynne made it but I am willing to bet that there is an Oregon guy on the cover in Oregon and a USC guy in So Cal. Marketing is a wonderful thing.

  • MESOUTE Karchaj, A.V.
    June 16, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    In Stitches:
    Not exactly focused on your team. Rather pointing out the absurdity of the buzz words that come out of the Provo football offices and how that particular team's advocates eat them up and regurgitate the same buzzwords to no end.

    Tell me I am wrong. Do BYU fans not use those same buzzwords (exposure and relevance)on 75% of their posts (if not more)?

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 16, 2011 2:27 p.m.

    In other news, Lindy's also published the latest football lines:

    Utah
    USC 8

    Utah
    BYU 2.5

    ASU 2
    Utah

    Utah
    Pitt 4

    Dismal season ahead - check

  • MESOUTE Karchaj, A.V.
    June 16, 2011 2:37 p.m.

    @ Snack Pack:
    What shall we do? I guess we shouldn't even play those games where we are underdogs, correct? After all, the outcome is already etched in stone. Give me a break.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    June 16, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    Irrelevance is losing regularly to teams like Colorado State, Wyoming, and New Mexico, and getting crushed by UNLV 0-27!

    Irrelevance is, even in your best decade EVER, not being able to finish in the Top 25 as often as that team down south.

    Irrelevance is still not having a single national individual award winner, national championship, or player inducted into the national college football hall of fame after 117 years of football mediocrity.

  • crowntown1 Corona, CA
    June 16, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    BYU fans love to use the word jealous too. They are funny!

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    June 16, 2011 2:52 p.m.

    the runnin' utes are the best thing since sliced bread.

  • Duckhunter Hunter Alpine, UT
    June 16, 2011 2:53 p.m.

    snack pack

    "Irrelevance is losing regularly to teams like Colorado State, Wyoming, and New Mexico, and getting crushed by UNLV 0-27!"

    Or losing to USU 31-16 (and it wasn't even that close) and being the 3rd best team in the state last year?

    "Irrelevance is, even in your best decade EVER, not being able to finish in the Top 25 as often as that team down south."

    I'd rather have 2 BCS wins under my belt in that same decade than NONE (Quest 4 Perfection = Fail!).

    Utah has won 6 of last 9. Wynn 1 Hypes 0!

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 16, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    hedgehog

    "Jordan Wynne can't be on the cover..."

    KamUte

    "It is cool that Wynne made it..."

    Who's Wynne?

    By the way, Athlon published six PAC 12 covers:

    Arizona/Arizona State
    California/Stanford
    Colorado
    UCLA/USC
    Utah
    Washington/Oregon/Oregon State

    Obviously, one for every area where the magazine will appear on newstands.

    It's nice that Athlon picked Jordan for the Salt Lake market.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 16, 2011 3:02 p.m.

    MESOUTE

    "I guess we shouldn't even play those games where we are underdogs, correct?"

    You'll have to discuss that with hedgehog, because according to him, the odds makers know more about college football than the poll voters so the early lines are more important than the pre-season polls.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:02 p.m.

    Pac man,

    so your cherry picked - "irrelevant" facts weigh more heavily than the long extensive list of proofs that Utah can sight (about the dominating relevant postion in 21st centurey college football)?

    You notice I did not mention specific (pathetic) losses that byu had in my argument, because that would not be logical. Those stats have no relevance or strength.

    I suppose you think all byu's final rankings averaged from the 2000's is higher than utah's average final rankings from the 2000's? Get a clue- do some reasearch before opening your mouth. Utah is the higher ranked team.

    I suppose you think byu has beet more ranked opponants? Get a clue - do some reasearch. I suppose you think byu has gone unefeted twice and beat RANKED teams along the way? Get a clue- do some reasearch about the 1984 NC. If you do, you will realize that BYU beat zero ranked teams that year. Their combined opponants winn% in 1984 was 0.47,i.e. byu would never have a sniff at the BCS top 5 with that EXACT season - Mathamatical FACT - COMPUTER RANKINGS.

    Utah beat more two more ranked teams in 2008 than byu ever beat in a season.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 16, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    duckling hunter

    BYU has won
    3 of the last 5
    and
    26 of the last 39

    Everybody would prefer a couple of BCS wins, to none.

    Even so, BYU has finished in the AP Top 25 FOUR times in the last five years, which is almost as many AP Top 25 finishes as Utah has in its entire history(5).

    BYU added a Doak Walker Award winner during the decade to increase its total of national individual award winners to 15, including a Heisman.

    Utah still doesn't have a single national individual award winner.

    Even in Utah's greatest decade ever, the Utes are still having a hard time keeping pace with the Cougars.

  • chicagoborn WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    It's nice that we have someone like you with enough free time on their hands to be concerned with grammar and spelling on a message board.

  • chicagoborn WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    It's nice to see that Utah's APR is pretty high. Shows that Utah gets it done on and off the field.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    forreal

    "You notice I did not mention specific (pathetic) losses that BYU"

    That would be an exercise in futility, since no BYU losses during the 2000's were more pathetic than these Utah losses:

    0-27 to UNLV(2-10)
    7-47 at home by a Top 5 team in the biggest game in Utah history

  • MESOUTE Karchaj, A.V.
    June 16, 2011 3:29 p.m.

    @ phoenix

    How many of those nationally prominent awards since Lavell and Chow left?
    History is something that BYU has going for them. As each year passes, that history becomes further and further removed from the present reality. BYU had their time in the sun. The more important question is this; What are they doing now?

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    June 16, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    MESOUTE

    "Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure. Exposure. Exposure."

    Congratulations. Wynn will get a lot of exposure appearing on the cover of Athlon magazine...

    in Salt Lake City.

  • Itchy Lehi, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    Phoenix

    "Even in Utah's greatest decade ever, the Utes are still having a hard time keeping pace with the Cougars."

    That't the most hilarious thing I've read today. In the last decade Utah has far surpassed BYU in accomplishments, $$$, and national relevance. BYU's glory days are a distant memory soon to be forgotten by all but the most pathetic, diehard Cougar fans.

  • Fahrvergnugen Provo, UT
    June 16, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    It's funny that Ute fans made fun of Heaps because a magazine misspelled his name, yet they can't even spell the name of their own QB correctly.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 16, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    forreal people

    "Utah beat more two more ranked teams in 2008 than BYU ever beat in a season."

    Yes, and BYU one more team with a winning record in 1984 than Utah did in 2004.

    If you throw out the extra game BYU played against 1-10 Utah State, the overall win/loss records for BYU's 1984 and Utah's 2004 regular season opponents are almost identical.

    BYU 1984 - 54-69-3
    Utah 2004 - 53-72-0

    BYU won two more road games against Top 15 opponents in their 24-game winning streak that culminated in winning the national championship than Utah has ever won in a single season.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 16, 2011 3:57 p.m.

    Itchy

    "BYU's glory days are a distant memory..."

    Last Five Years
    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4
    Utah 2

    Top 15 Finishes
    BYU 3
    Utah 1

    Conference Championships
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    BYU 4
    Utah 3

    Head-to-Head
    BYU 3
    Utah 2

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:03 p.m.

    @Truth Machine

    "no BYU losses during the 2000's were more pathetic" Really?

    2000
    3 - 29 FSU

    2001
    45 - 72! Hawaii

    2002
    3-24 to UNLV (At home!)

    2004
    21 - 52 Utah

    2008
    24 - 48 Utah

    2009
    28 - 54 (At home to a less than stellar FSU team)
    7 - 38 (At home to a very good TCU team)

    Those Utah losses don't look all that bad do they? That was fun.

    Go Utes!

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 16, 2011 4:05 p.m.

    "How many of those nationally prominent awards since Lavell and Chow left?"

    The more relevant question for Utah fans is how many nationally prominent awards has Utah had, EVER?

    Heisman - nope
    Doak Walker - nope
    Outland - nope
    Davey O'Brien - nope
    Sammy Baugh - nope

    Any award is more relevant than no award.

  • Hondo Alpine, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:07 p.m.

    phoenix-

    You didn't just bring up Glass Staley's award, did you? That's comical.

    "BYU has won
    3 of the last 5
    and
    26 of the last 39"

    If you start bringing up history, instead of recent results, which is what everyone else in this thread is talking about, let's pull out the head-to-head record:

    Utah 54 wins and BYU a paltry 34

    But, back on topic...

    "Everybody would prefer a couple of BCS wins, to none."

    And Utah has 2 to BYU's none, brah. Utah has been more relevant and successful on a national stage in the 2000's. Wins in games that matter and higher rankings. It's a fact!

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:08 p.m.

    @ Fahrvergnugen | 3:42 p.m. June 16, 2011
    Provo, UT

    I believe my Utah fan friends make fun of Heaps because dude held a press conference and hired a publicist before he ever played a game.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 16, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    MESOUTE

    "Exposure." "Relevance." "Exposure. Exposure. Exposure."

    It's nice that Wynn will get a little exposure appearing on the cover of Athlon magazines sold in Salt Lake, but frankly, I'd rather have the exposure Jake Heaps will be getting playing in seven or eight nationally televised games on ESPN.

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    June 16, 2011 4:18 p.m.

    Since 2004:

    BCS games:
    Utah 2
    BYU 0

    BCS wins:
    Utah 2
    BYU 0

    BCS conference invite:
    Utah 1
    BYU 0 (unless you count the virtual invite to the Big 12 that BYU fans dream of)

    Go Wynn. Take us to the Rose Bowl in Jan 2012!

  • brluthi Provo, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    @ 1984 for life

    I'm sure they did that too. Thank you for bringing up something completely irrelevant to my comment.

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    June 16, 2011 4:21 p.m.

    oh, and since 2004:

    Completed Quests for Perfection:

    Utah 2 (has no Quest t-shirts though)
    BYU 0 (lots of Quest t-shirts)

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:31 p.m.

    @ truth and phoeonix-

    TCU:

    How is utah getting beat by a undefeted #2 TCU team at home by 40 points more pathetic than BYU getting beat by a #6 not-undefeted TCU team at home by 31 points?

    Bringing up TCU is not a good argument. Utah faced the WAY better tcu team.

    Not to mention utah has beat tcu more than byu has in the MWC.

    Stupid argument.

    Arguing game by game is a slipery slope for a byu fan. It's the reason BYU has not gone to a bcs bowl - they don't win big games, utah does.

    In byu's best season in the MWC (2009) they only beat 2 ranked teams, utah and OSU (23&25),(tying thier all time record, 2 ranked wins in a season 1996) - and lost two blow outs at HOME against one unranked and one ranked opponant. That is not a "great" season. Not even close, no bcs bowl, not worthy.

    In utah's best season in the MWC (2008) they beat 4 ranked teams two of them were top 7 teams. Byu has never beaten four ranked in a year or two top 10 in a year.

    BYU falls short. Not Great.

  • In Stitches Provo, Utah
    June 16, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    MESOUTE

    Cougars don't use more buzz words than Utes, just different ones: have fun in your self-appointed "Conference of Champions."

    By the way, I read the article and it did not have a single thing to do with BYU or their buzz words. THAT is why I wrote that YOU are the one who is caught up in them. If not, why even mention them in this article?! (You will notice that many of your Ute friends also chose to focus their comments on BYU rather than the topic at hand).

    Meanwhile, I just came on here to congratulate Wynn and wish him luck....

  • sciencepete Provo, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:40 p.m.

    Good for Wynn, I think the Utes are going to have a fine season and hold their own in the Pac-12. And Hedgehog, are you REALLY complaining about trolls? Really?!

  • sciencepete Provo, UT
    June 16, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    @ SoCalUtahFan

    It was a virtual invite to the BIG EAST not the Big 12. Get your virtual facts right! ;) I'll say it again, Utah's going to be just fine in the Pac-12, I expect that will have their fair share of success. I'm excited to see how BYU does in independence too.

  • Chiro Portland, OR
    June 16, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    2002
    3-24 to UNLV (At home!)

    You forgot that they byU also lost at home to UNLV in 2004......

    Looks like UNLV dominated byU in 2002-2004. No surprise though.

    2002 9-52 at Air Force, ouch....
    2004 10-42 at USC, not a good showing...
    23-49 at Notre Dame....not pretty
    7-32 at TCU

    In a two year span byU lost to TCU by a score of 14-70 and neither year TCU went to a BCS game.

    I forgot who went 7-6 last year?

    Chase Hansen....double ouch

    31 Million a year for Utah or 4 million a year for byU; which is better?

    Look at any recruiting site from last year after Utah went to the Pac-12 and byU went indy.......utah in the top 30 and byU in the 50's

    6 of 9; and the three wins byU had took a "miracle" to win, Utah just crushes byU. See 2004 and 2008.

    Just some thoughts while read how byU fans think they have it better, what a joke you are.....how is the bubble in Utah county?

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:04 p.m.

    Chiro,

    I can't wait to see that "bubble" POP! on September 17th 2011. It will be BYU's second loss in a row, making them 1-2 to start the season on their easiest SOS in decades.

    POP!

  • TheHailstorm South Weber, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:09 p.m.

    I prefer to do all of my comparisons within the Mendenhall and Whittingham era.
    Utah-- Coach of the Year 1
    BYU----COY 0

  • Bo Jangles Meridian, ID
    June 16, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    scenic,

    Truth is, BYU still played Utah State in 1984 so you have to look at the full body of work, you can't pick and choose the wins you want to toss and keep.

    In today's environment of computer ratings, strength of schedule etc, BYUs body of work in 1984 wouldn't have been enough to get them even a sniff at the NC since their opponents winning % was .410. Utah is a good modern day measuring stick for the Y. In 2008 they beat 4 top 25 teams and two top 7 teams, but still only got a #2 ranking. For comparison sake, BYU didn't play a single ranked opponent in 1984.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:21 p.m.

    The first 3 posters are Utah fans. 2 of the first 3 posters on a Utah article are Utah fans commenting about BYU.

    hedgehog calling someone a troll is like a skunk saying someone else smells

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    Bo Jangles

    BYU was already 11-0 BEFORE they played Utah State in 1984. Playing Utah State was a non-factor in BYU's body of work.

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    brluthi | 4:20 p.m. June 16, 2011
    Provo, UT

    "I'm sure they did that too. Thank you for bringing up something completely irrelevant to my comment."

    You're welcome.

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    June 16, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    @TheHailstorm | 5:09 p.m. June 16, 2011
    I prefer to do all of my comparisons within the Mendenhall and Whittingham era.
    Utah-- Coach of the Year 1
    BYU----COY 0
    ....

    Good point.
    One additional fact --and very important fact...
    On APR (Academic Progress Rating) national ranking:

    31. Kyle Whittingham, Utah 957
    89. Bronco Mendenhall, BYU 928

    National COY Kyle is way ahead of Provo COY Bronco.

    Go Kyle! See you in Pasadena CA in Jan 2012!

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 5:46 p.m.

    Athlon

    "Get your Utah cover today!"

    You have to admit, having a Utah player on the Utah cover does show more respect for Utah than they get from the PAC-- like putting Utah-USC on Versus, and one more game on Fox for the whole season.

    If the PAC had their way, I'm not so sure Wynn would have made the cover, so in a way, I agree, this is a positive news story for the Utes.

    Utah gets more respect when Larry Scott or the PAC isn't involved.

    (I'm not dissin' the Utes, I'm dissin' the PAC and Larry Scott...)

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 16, 2011 6:02 p.m.

    TheHailstorm

    "I prefer to do all of my comparisons within the Mendenhall and Whittingham era."

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 2

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 3

    Head-to-Head
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 3

    Record vs Bottom Half of MWC (Wyo, CSU, NM, UNLV)
    Bronco 12-0
    Kyle 7-5

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 16, 2011 6:34 p.m.

    utahcountyute

    What's more pathetic than being SHUTOUT 0-27 by a team that only won one other game?

    Except for getting waxed at home 7-47?

    Even during the darkest days of the Crowton era, BYU didn't lose a home game by 40 or more points.

    --------------------

    forreal

    "How is utah getting beat by a undefeted #2 TCU team at home by 40 points more pathetic...?"

    2010
    BYU at TCU 3-31
    Utah vs TCU 7-47

    Because BYU only lost to that same TCU team, ON THE ROAD, by 28.

    And, unlike Utah, BYU was still in the game until the closing moments of the first half, trailing only 0-3 with 1:42 left in the 2nd Q. In fact, BYU only trailed TCU 17-3 at the end of the 3rd Q.

    Utah was hopeless out of the TCU game in the 1st Q, trailing 20-0, and the Utes were down 40-0, before they finally scored in the 4th Q.

    For a team that was ranked #5 in the BCS and supposedly playing in the biggest game in Utah history, it was a pathetic, humiliating loss.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    June 16, 2011 6:35 p.m.

    Riddles in the Dark,

    Your post is very biased. For example, you say Top 15 Finishes. Why Top 15? Why not Top 10? Why not Top 5? Oh I know, it is because byu would look silly against Utah in that category. It would look like this.

    Top 5 Finishes
    Bronco 0
    Kyle 1

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 16, 2011 7:00 p.m.

    "31 Million a year for Utah"

    Call us when Utah gets its first $31m paycheck from the PAC12.

    If the Utes are rolling in the dough, why are they gouging their fans with 24% increases in season ticket prices and an 8% increase in student fees?

    UNLV 2007
    won at Utah State 23-16

    lost to Wisconsin 13-20
    lost to Hawaii 14-49

    BEAT UTAH 0-27

    lost at Nevada 20-27
    lost at AFA 14-31
    lost to BYU 14-24
    lost to CSU 23-48
    lost at Wyo 24-29
    lost to SDSU 30-38
    lost at TCU 10-34
    lost at UNM 6-27

    Utah finished behind UNLV in the race for the Beehive Boot.

    Getting shutout by a team that only beat one other team all season, Utah State(2-10).

    How much more pathetic can you get?

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 16, 2011 7:13 p.m.

    KH

    "Why Top 15?"

    Because it shows MULTIPLE years of success.

    The drum and feather logo is perfect for the Utes, because they beat the same two-headed drum over and over and over--2004-2008-2004-2008--because that's the only feather U have to put in your bonnet.

    Top 25/10+ Seasons

    BYU
    2009 11-2 #12/#12
    2008 10-3 #25/#21
    2007 11-2 #14/#15
    2006 11-2 #16/#15
    2001 12-2 #25/#24
    1996 14-1 #5/#5
    1994 10-3 #18/#10
    1991 8-3-2 #23/#23
    1990 10-3 #22/#17
    1989 10-3 #22/#18
    1985 11-3 #16/#17
    1984 13-0 #1/#1
    1983 11-1 #7/#7
    1981 11-2 #13/#11
    1980 12-1 #12/#12
    1979 11-1 #13/#12
    1977 9-2 #20/#16

    Utah
    2010 10-3 ur/#23
    2009 10-3 #18/#18
    2008 13-0 #2/#4
    2004 12-0 #4/#5
    2003 10-2 #21/#21
    1994 10-2 #10/#8
    1964 9-2 ur/#14

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 16, 2011 7:41 p.m.

    Riddles

    You need to understand the rules here.

    Utah fans are famous for using selective stats, and then calling others "biased" for using their own selective stats.

    Just to clarify:

    2004 and 2008 are okay to talk about when you're discussing Utah football.

    Pre-WAC is also okay as long as you only talk in generalities like head-to-head record versus BYU and leather helmet era championships, but don't delve into specifics like "Why are you counting a win against the Utah alumni in your overall record?"

    But if you really want to know what Utah has done in football:

    Utah won BCS games in 2004 and 2008
    Utah also had undefeated seasons in 2004 and 2008
    Utah was also ranked in the Top 5 in 2004 and 2008
    Utah's coach was also named COY in 2008
    Utah also had very good seasons in 2004 and 2008
    Utah also beat some ranked teams in 2008

    The drum and feather logo is perfect for Utah, because the Utes are continually beating the same two-headed drum over and over and over, because 2004 and 2008 are the only two feathers they have to put in their bonnet.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    June 16, 2011 7:47 p.m.

    SoCalUtahFan | 4:21 p.m. June 16, 2011
    Utesville, CA

    "Completed Quests for Perfection"

    The only quest for perfection that matters is one that ends in a national chamionship.

    Lifetime Completed Quests for Perfection

    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    #1 > #2, #4, or #5 no matter how you spin it

  • SoCalUtahFan Utesville, CA
    June 16, 2011 8:35 p.m.

    @antiBCS...

    as a great President would say...
    Well, there you go again, my fellow cougarettes, bringing up 1984 when your so-called NC was a win over 6-5 Michigan.
    It might be well if you would ask yourself, are you better off than you were twenty-seven years ago?

    In the last 10-15 years, Utah has passed BYU in college football.
    Two perfect quests.
    Two BCS wins in 2 tries.
    One national COY.
    BCS conference member.

    and all BYU has to show...lots of Quest' t-shirts, Band-of-Brothers t-shirts

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    @Mesquite

    You always have a new rationalization.

    Last Decade...

    2 years ago BYU had another "Consensus" All-American (Pitta), that's number 15.
    (Utah has 4, and one was a kicker)

    They have another Pre-season 1st teamer this year, Reynolds.

    They got the number 1 recruit in America, Heaps.

    They had 3 more players inducted into the College Hall of Fame.
    (BYU 6, Detmer will make 7) (Utah-1 a coach)

    They had a former player, 2 time NFL-MVP and Super Bowl MVP inducted into the Pro football Hall of Fame.

    They had half of their teams finishing in the Top 25.

    And all this despite of the Nightmare Crowton years.

    A Doak Walker winner to start the decade, and the the biggest buzz of all the new receivers in the NFL, even, the Great... Austin "Magic Happens" Collie.

    More pub than the U could ever dream of. And then The Jimmer?

    Forget it.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 16, 2011 8:54 p.m.

    correction: in spite of

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 16, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    Irrelevance is when you talk about being a "premier football program" but act like Division II program:

    Appalachian State 34
    #5 Michigan 32

    "The monumental upset at No. 5 Michigan was only minutes old when, more than 400 miles away, Appalachian State... [fans] headed for the school's football stadium, climbed the fence, and tore down the goalpost." -- USA Today

    BYU 14
    #3 Oklahoma 13

    "People danced in the streets. They hugged perfect strangers. They lit off fireworks. And in general, they celebrated and celebrated and celebrated... spontaneous celebrations erupted throughout this city and lasted well into the early hours of the morning on Sunday." -- DN

    To be fair Oklahoma was #3 and Michigan was only #5... so can't blame the fans of the "premier program" for celebrating like they just won a NC in September.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    Premier, storied programs get media & TV coverage and this fall U guys get what?

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    June 16, 2011 9:22 p.m.

    uteBusters, believe you me, BYU fans can beat the drum (err, dead horse) just as well as Ute fans. I know, I knowm in 2007 UNLV beat Utah 27 to 0. And the drumming continues...Your drum is the "Utah had only two good seasons." Since we all know "good season" = undefeated. Or in BYU's case Top 15 finishes, since they only have 1 undefeated season.

    But go ahead and pretend Y fans are above the drumming.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:23 p.m.

    "even, the Great... Austin "Magic Happens" Collie."

    "the great"? wow! Take away Manning and he is nobody.

    What has the great Dennis Pitta done in the NFL? hmmmm

    next

  • Bo Jangles Meridian, ID
    June 16, 2011 9:24 p.m.

    Blu / Scenic,

    Again, BYU didn't play a single ranked opponent in 1984. In fact, they played very few teams with winning records.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 16, 2011 9:55 p.m.

    @Bo

    Get your facts straight, Pitt was ranked #1 at the time they played BYU opening up the 1984 season.

    They also came into the 1984 season with a previous 11 game winning streak. They defeated Missouri in the Holdiday.

    Say what you want but there's a nice shiny trophy down here in Provo that says NC on it. We'll get more mileage out of it than two BCS bowl wins down the road.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    June 16, 2011 10:39 p.m.

    Uteology/SoCalUtahFan

    Irrelevance is being invited to the big boys club and then being told to sit at the rickety card table and enjoy your table scraps -- what was it, your conference debut on that good ol' MWC standby, Versus, and your big new rivalry game" on Fox Regional?

    A program that was really one of the big boys wouldn't have to beg for an ESPN bone from their friends down south.

    -------------------

    MiP

    Only one undefeated season, but a plethora of very good seasons dating back to the 70's -- 17 of 34 Top 25 finishes in both polls since 1977; 23 conference championships since 1965; BYU fans talk about 1984 only as a highlight, because 200 words is far too few to talk about all of BYU's football accomplishments. Utah fans talk about 2004 and 2008, because that's all they have.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    June 16, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    Wynn will have a nice season, if he can stay healthy. I don't see the Utes as winning the Pac-12 south division, but 8-4 would be a solid season and perfectly reasonable. Without Wynn, though, and it could be a long year of transition.

    Quotes from sammyg @ 955 PM:
    "Get your facts straight, Pitt was ranked #1 at the time they played BYU opening up the 1984 season."

    Ah shoot sammy, there you go calling someone out with 'facts.'

    Ahem.

    Facts straight = Pitt, preseason ranked #3/7, Auburn was 1.
    Pitt untimately finished UNRANKED at 3-7-1. As did all of BYU's opponents at the end of 1984 (finish unranked, that is), hence Bo Jangles' comments.

    "They also came into the 1984 season with a previous 11 game winning streak. They defeated Missouri in the Holdiday."

    I believe Bo Jangles spoke only of the '84 team. As you are well aware, I assume, the opponents BYU played in 1983 don't actually count for the '84 season.

    "Say what you want but there's a nice shiny trophy down here in Provo that says NC on it."

    That I will agree with because it is actually a fact.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 16, 2011 10:59 p.m.

    Bo Jangles

    What BYU did in 1984 was beat every team on their schedule and cash in on the national cachet the Cougars had been building since 1977

    1979: 11-1, #13/#12, undefeated regular season

    1980: 12-1, #12/#11, beat the famed SMU Pony Express

    1981: 11-2, #13/#11

    1982: 8-4, unranked

    1983: 11-1, #7/#7,
    finished the season on an 11-game winning streak including two road wins over Top 15 teams

    1984: 13-0, #1/#1,
    finished the season on a 24-game winning streak including wins over two teams (Pittsburgh and Michigan) who were ranked as high as #3 during the season

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 16, 2011 11:02 p.m.

    @sammyg
    Premier, storied programs get media & TV coverage and this fall U guys get what?

    --------------

    Something that BYU has been dreaming for 30 years...

    "In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10." -- Ron McBride

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 16, 2011 11:31 p.m.

    @anti BCS

    Wrong. We just had a decade where Utah football finally arrived on the national stage while BYU faded. We have a brighter future:

    A) Coach wanted by SEC and BYU
    B) More NFL players being developed (i.e. better talent)
    C) BYU had better recruits but that trend might be changing see 2011 Utah class and blue-blood Chase Hansen
    D) 30 million a year

    Nope, irrelevance is not being wanted at all like Boise by the MWC, TCU by the Big East, Utah by the PAC-12, and everyone wants Notre Dame but no one seems to want "Notre Dame of the West".

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 16, 2011 11:42 p.m.

    (continued)

    BYU 1979 to 1984

    Conference Championships: 6 of 6

    Overall: 55-8(87%)

    Conference: 42-3(93%)

    Top 12: 5 of 6

    Top 7: back-to-back, 1983, 1984

    National Championship: 1

    AFCA (Kodak) Coach of the Year
    LaVell Edwards(1984)

    Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year
    LaVell Edwards(1979)

    Heisman Trophy Candidates:
    Marc Wilson(1979) - 3rd
    Jim McMahon(1981) - 3rd
    Steve Young(1983) - 2nd
    Robbie Bosco(1984) - 3rd

    Davey O'Brien Award (nation's best quarterback since 1981)
    Jim McMahon(1981)
    Steve Young(1983)

    Sammy Baugh Trophy (nation's best passer)
    Marc Wilson (1979)
    Jim McMahon (1981)
    Steve Young (1983)
    Robbie Bosco (1984)

    --------------------

    Utah 2004 to 2009

    Conference Championships: 2 of 6

    Overall: 59-17(77%)

    Conference: 35-12(74%)

    Top 12: 2 of 6

    Top 4: 2004, 2008

    National Coach of the Year
    Kyle Whittingham(2008)

    Heisman Trophy Candidates
    none in the top 3

    National Individual Award Winners
    none

    Even with Utah's two undefeated BCS seasons included, Utah's best doesn't even come close to comparing to BYU's best.

    BYU accomplished MUCH more from 1979 to 1984, than Utah has accomplished in their entire football history.

    And that was just the beginning of BYU's legacy.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 16, 2011 11:52 p.m.

    @Uteology

    I would say it is obvious, based upon all of "your" research and posts, which program is relevant to "Uteology".

    Could you be more easy to read? You are transparent, my friend.

  • che loco Springville, UT
    June 16, 2011 11:55 p.m.

    @clowntown,

    Read this slowly so your hate doesn't overcome your reason.

    APR does not figure LDS missions into their calculations. So the Y gets dinged in APR b/c they have so many missionaries who don't complete their degrees in the 5-year window that determines APR.

    A better gauge to determine how well the Cougs are doing academically would be to take a look at the Academic All-Conference teams where the Y is very well represented every year.

    Stop the hate. Embrace the love.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 16, 2011 11:56 p.m.

    Uteology

    Wrong: Utah had a couple of great years during the decade and got lucky to be in the right place at the right time when the PAC needed a 12th team.

    Utah being in the conference had absolutely no bearing on the PAC 12's new television contract except for giving the PAC 12 enough teams to play a championship game.

    That much was proven when the Utes were completely ignored by ABC/ESPN when the television schedule for 2011 was announced.

    With 10 straight WAC championships, BYU had indeed outgrown the conference and was on the cusp of being invited to the newly expanding Big 12 when the Gov. of Texas intervened to force her alma mater, Baylor, to be invited instead of BYU.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 17, 2011 12:55 a.m.

    @TrueBlue

    "And that was just the beginning of BYU's legacy."

    Actually that was the peak; it's been downhill since then.

    "BYU accomplished MUCH more from 1979 to 1984, than Utah has accomplished in their entire football history."

    As far as individual awards yes Edwards players achieved a lot, as far as on the field no. Which teams in the 1979-1984 WAC were as good as 2004-2010 MWC Utah, TCU, and BYU? On the field they look pretty even to me...

    Wins over AP top 20 final ranked teams:
    1979-1984 BYU: 3 wins - #20 SMU, #13 AFA, and #17 UCLA
    2004-2009 Utah: 3 wins - #6 Bama, #7 TCU, and #18 OSU

    Continued...

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 17, 2011 12:56 a.m.

    Part 2:

    Again even...

    1979 BYU 11-1: @SDSU (8-3), @USU (7-3-1) and @Long Beach State (7-4)
    1980 BYU 12-1: @Hawaii (8-3), LBS (8-3) and #20 SMU (8-4)
    1981 BYU 11-2: @Hawaii (9-2), WSU (8-3-1) and Wyoming (8-3)
    1982 BYU 8-4: SDSU (7-5)
    1983 BYU 11-1: #13 @AFA 10-2, BGS (8-3) and #17 @UCLA (7-4-1)
    1984 BYU 13-0: @AF (8-4), and Tulsa (6-5) and no other team above .500

    2004 Utah 12-0: #25 Pitt (8-4), Texas A&M (7-5) and @WY (7-5)
    2005 Utah 7-5: GTech (7-5)
    2006 Utah 8-5: Tulsa (8-5)
    2007 Utah 9-4: UNM (9-4), @TCU (8-5), and Navy (8-5)
    2008 Utah 13-0: #6 Bama (12-2), #7 TCU (11-2), #18 OSU (9-4), #25 BYU (10-3), @AF (8-5)
    2009 Utah 10-3: Cal (8-5), AF (8-5), and WY (7-6)

    NOTE: BYU had legends (Edwards and Chow) coaching for years while Utah had major coaching changes twice in 2005 and 2009.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 17, 2011 1:49 a.m.

    C'mon, you guys, this childish bickering has to stop.

    Researchers at the Huntsman Cancer Institute could come up with a cure for cancer, and the comments in the Deseret News article about the life-changing discovery would quickly turn into:

    We have a national championship, and you don't.
    We have two BCS wins, and you don't.
    We have a bigger stadium.
    We got invited to the Pac-12, and you didn't.
    We have a Heisman Trophy winner, Doak Walker winner, and lots more All-Americans than you do.
    We've have more NFL players than you do.
    Our school is better than yours.
    We do better research than you.
    You got beat by UNLV.
    We have better athletes.
    We have way more Top 25 finishes than you.
    Coach Whittingham turned you guys down.
    Legacy.
    You've never been to the Final Four.
    ESPN.
    BCS conference membership.
    Jimmer!

    To paraphrase what a reader said in a San Jose paper (the DN won't print this otherwise), "Is every thread going to turn into a BYU vs UTah 'something' contest? BYU fans should stick to whatever conference they are in. Not really interested on why they think they are better then Utah."

    Embarrassing....

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 17, 2011 7:12 a.m.

    Had BYU not defeated Missouri in 1983 Holdiday and had that season of 11 wins going into 1984 I'm sure there would not have been a consensus decision to award the NC.

    Had the Utes had a winning 2007 season then maybe 2008 could of, should of been an NC for the Utes but alas it was not to be.

    This is the difference between storied programs getting what they get and others getting table scraps.

  • Bo Jangles Meridian, ID
    June 17, 2011 8:26 a.m.

    Sam/Tru,

    Let me clue you boys in on something... Teams that finish the season 3-7 (Pitt) or 6-6 (Michigan) are not considered ranked opponents by anyone's standards. That twisted logic is not shared by others outside your bubble.

    You have your NC trophy. Just admit that the 1984 SOS against teams with a .410 winning percentage wouldn't get the job done in today's environment. The best team the Cougars beat in 1984 was Air Force 8-4.

  • T-Mac Meridian, ID
    June 17, 2011 8:32 a.m.

    Tru,

    In 2010, Utah was ranked as high a #5... does that mean they were worthy of their ranking? No.

    Pitt and Michigan were not good teams in 1984 with a combined record of 9-13. Neither of them finished the season ranked. Where do you guys come up with this stuff???

    Just admit it, your Cougars played absolutely nobody in 84.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 8:38 a.m.

    @Meso Ute
    What's BYU doing???

    Right now...just waiting for Sept 17th to see how gun shy Wynn's actually going to be in his own backfield after being sacked and chased like a scared little bunny rabbit all day long in front of 92,516 spectators when USC trounces them the week before. Better get the 2nd and 3rd bakup qb's ready Wynn's going to definitely need them. and by the way....there were 5 other covers just for PAC...Wynn's picture was not a solo.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 17, 2011 8:49 a.m.

    Uteology

    Every serious college football fan knows that teams don't come out of no where to win a national championship. Either you're a storied program with years and years of accomplishments behind you, or you're an up-and-coming program that has had very good recent success.

    Utah may have had some nice wins during the 2000's, but the big difference between BYU 1984 and Utah 2004/2008, is Utah's overall record for the 5 years preceding 2004 and 2008 pales in comparison to BYU's overall record.

    BYU 1984 (1979-1983)
    Top 25: 4 of 5, #13/#12, #12/#12, #13/#11, #7/#7, ranked #7/#7 in 1983
    Championships: 5 of 5
    Overall: 53-9(86%)
    Conference: 35-3(92%)

    Utah 2004 (1999-2003)
    Top 25: 1 of 5, #21/#21, ranked #21/#21 in 2003
    Championships: 2 of 5
    Overall: 36-26(55%)
    Conference: 21-14(60%)

    Utah 2008 (2003-2007)
    Top 25: 2 of 5, #21/#21, #4/#5, unranked in 2007
    Championships: 2 of 5
    Overall: 46-16(74%)
    Conference: 27-11(71%)

    Utah finished #6 in the final BCS rankings in 2004/2008. BYU was ranked #1 in both final regular season polls. HUGE difference.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    byu wins national Title in three years. Right it down.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 9:10 a.m.

    @che loco...not to be undermining My BYU but the missionary info applies just as easily but to a smaller degree to Utah as it does to BYU....what is bigger on the BYU side is actually the woman athletes who don't finish thier degrees because they are marrying the return missionaries they meet at BYU...hence the bigger factor.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 17, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    Bo Jangles

    "Let me clue you boys in on something... Teams that finish the season 3-7 (Pitt) or 6-6 (Michigan) are not considered ranked opponents by anyone's standards."

    True.

    But, let me clue you in on something... Upstart programs that have no track record coming into a great season have NO CHANCE at winning a national championship...

    regardless of how many Top 25 teams they beat in that one great season.

    Utah 2004
    1999 - unranked
    2000 - unranked
    2001 - unranked
    2002 - unranked
    2003 - #21/#21

    Utah 2008
    2003 - #21/#21
    2004 - #4/#5
    2005 - unranked
    2006 - unranked
    2007 - unranked

    The reason Utah only finished #6 in the Final BCS polls in 2004 and 2008, despite undefeated regular seasons, is the same reason BYU only finished #9 in the final regular season polls after an undefeated regular season in 1979 -- no previous track record.

    -------------------------

    Uteology

    You're getting lost in the weeds.

    No poll voter goes back and scrutinizes wins/losses from previous seasons, but they do remember how teams did overall, that is, the final grades in the final polls.

    BYU 1984
    1979 #13/#12
    1980 #12/#12
    1981 #13/#11
    1982 unranked
    1983 #7/#7

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    @Utah 95

    Sorry...that sort of angle was tried before coming out of the Univ. of Utah with the announcement that they had created cold fusion...I still can't get my old 92 Plymouth Acclaim up to warp speed and it's still BYU 1 National Championship and Utah 2 rollover tricks and a couple of bones to go chew on in the corner.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Uteology

    "Actually that [1984] was the peak; it's been downhill since then."

    If you were at all objective, you'd realize how silly that statement is.

    BYU Since 1984:

    Conference Championships: 12
    Top 25 Finishes: 11, including #5, #10, #12, #15 and #15 final finishes
    10+ Win Seasons: 9
    Overall: 221-109-2(67%)
    National Individual Award Winners: 8
    -Heisman - 1
    -Outland - 2
    -Davey O'Brien - 2
    -Sammy Baugh - 2
    -Doak Walker - 1

    Plus, a big home win over #1-ranked, defending national champion Miami back when the Hurricane were the biggest, baddest team in major college football.

    Plus, a big win in the Cotton Bowl in what would have been a BCS bowl IF the BCS had existed in 1998.

    Frankly, BYU has accomplished more, SINCE 1984, than Utah has accomplished in their entire history:

    AP Top 25 Finishes Since 1984
    BYU 11

    AP Top 25 Finishes Lifetime
    Utah 5

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    @Bo Jangles
    Bo you're forgetting something very major... BYU was ranked a solid #3 going into the Post season's bowls... Oklahoma was picked to win the National Championship but lost in a very ho hum non thriller to a team that wasn't considered the right choice to be playing them in the first place. BYU didn't just back into a National Championship they were poised to be the National Championships if no.1 & 2 fell flat on thier faces which they managed to do extremely well. That's why the ball isn't round.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    @uteology
    Funny how I remember that it was BYU who picked themselves up from a bad start in 2010 and Utah who crashed and burned big time at the end. Hate to admit that our coaching staff not only gave you the game by gambling on a 4th and inches early in the 3rd qtr instead of taking the chip shot field goal but they literally changed the momentum of the game as well... otherwise the better and much younger team on the field would not have lost that game. We'll see this fall where the real winners are ....But I expect to see a very shell shocked Wynn coming off of a not so surprising loss to USC in front of 92,516 seated spectators in Memorial Colliseum.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    Where's Stockton

    Actually, BYU was ranked #1 in both final regular season polls and the college football sports media spent an entire month heavily scrutinizing BYU and the other legitimate contenders - Oklahoma, Washington and Nebraska. Florida was a non-factor because the Gators were banned from playing in a bowl.

    As much as the naysayers like to pretend that Michigan was a terrible team, the Wolverines were ranked as high as #3 during the season, after beating defending national champion Miami, and Michigan would have been playing in the Rose Bowl, instead of the Holiday Bowl, if they'd beaten their arch-rival Ohio State in their final regular season game.

    Michigan was a legitimate national championship contender until a rash of injuries in late September/early October lead to several losses. By the time the Wolverines played BYU in the Holiday, almost all of their injured players were back and healthy and the Wolverines fully expected to knock off the #1-ranked team.

    All five major selecting organizations chose BYU as their 1984 National Champion.

    Naysayers who simply look at SOS and bowl opponents are clueless about the true history of the 1984 college football season.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:41 a.m.

    All right my fellow College Football fans; its time to give up on the BYU fan base. We can be assured that BYU grads/fans have a Sevier reality/honesty block when it comes to the following truths:

    -BYUs great win records in the early 80s were against a conference that was not remotely as competitive as the MWC. With BCS teams like Utah and TCU in the MWC what happened to BYUs dominance? Nonexistent.
    -BYUs SOS in 1984 would have kept them outside the BCS top five, mathematical fact! Computer Polls are 1/3 of the formula.
    -BYU faced/beat ZERO ranked opponents in 1984. BSU,Utah,orTCU would have been laughed out of the BCS conversation, had they not had Huge marquee wins over highly ranked opponents in the regular season.
    -BYU was only great if they had a schedule that makes them great. Undefeated only if they play all losing teams (0.41% in 1984)
    -The most ranked teams byu ever beat in a season was two in 1996, and they lost to a third ranked team that they faced that year. Utah beat 2 top 10 and 4 top 24 in 2008.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:55 a.m.

    @Where's Stockton,

    Dude, BYU coaches did not "gamble" on 4th and inches in the third quarter instead of taking the chip shot. They tried to pick up a first down - that's called play calling, Utah's defense simpley had the better atheletes than BYU's offence. You only had INCHES to go. But considering it was the 70th ranked offense in the nation vs the 23 ranked defense in the nation, the out come of the game was predictable, Utah one, as expected by everyone in the nation.

    Gambling is trying to kick a field goal for the win in the 4th quarter, once again over dominating athletic mismatches - BLOCK.

    BYU Points for 2010: 70th (unranked)
    BYU Points against 2010: 32nd (unranked)
    Utah Points for 2010: 23rd (Ranked)
    Utah Points against 2010: 24th (Ranked)

    The outcome is predictable every time: The unquestionable undesputed BETTER teams wins against vastly a vastly inferior opponant at home.

    Did you forget that BYU was one of the worst teams in the nation last year???

    7-6, one contriversial win against a winning team, a shamefull bowl matchup.

    vs.

    10-3, Ranked, losing to a top five and top 10 team. Bowl game RANKED match up.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    @True Blue

    Sorry both AP and UPI the then still prevailing polls had BYU at No.3 going into the Bowl ...not at no. 1 otherwise there wouldn't have been reason for a controversy.

    For real people...early in the 3rd quater it's a gamble... you take the sure thing...not doing so is like making a fieldgoal and then taking the points off the board because of a penalty in your favor...it's considered going against the grain or going against lady luck if you prefer to call it that. To have the right call would have been to have called for the field goal...even if they had missed at such an easy range it would have still been the right call. If Mark Wilson or Jim McMahon had been the quarterback and not a freshman in Heaps...maybe even I would have gambled.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 11:49 a.m.

    forreal people

    Sorry, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The WAC had some very good teams, besides BYU, Utah just wasn't one of them.

    Bottom line is none of your BYU-hating, Utah-loving revisionist spinning is going to change history.

    The exact same polls that voted BYU #1 in 1984, voted Utah #4/#5 in 2004 and #2/#4 in 2008.

    It's hillarious how Utah fans constantly beat their BcS drum, but when it comes to citing Utah's final rankings, they completely ignore the OFFICIAL BcS poll, the Coaches poll, in favor of the AP poll, which is not even associated with the BcS.

    If you were really honest about your BcS accomplishments, you'd be using the Final Coaches Poll as your measure of success.

    BYU 1984 - #1
    BYU 1996 - #5
    Utah 2004 - #5
    Utah 2008 - #4

    It's laughable how Utah fans cite wins over ranked opponents as a proof of accomplishment, but then discount BYU's final rankings.

    Utah fans expect us to believe that poll voters are really smart when they rank Utah's opponents, but really dumb when they rank BYU?

    The final polls are the final word.

    Deal with it!

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    @forreal people
    Like I said... we'll see this fall...I don't see where a much older seasoned Utah team had anymore overall success against a much younger less experienced BYU team... especially by the way Utah pancaked and burst in flames as bad as they did at the end of the season. A 1 point difference in a game that was dominated everywhere but the final score by these much younger less experienced BYU players isn't much to go on. Granted their tailfeathers got burnt on takoff but they managed to land safely intact...More than I can say for the Utes. The smoke is sill on the horizon. These will still be those same kids but you can believe they will be a lot different and vastly improved over what Utah barely got past last November.

  • showmeyatd's Pleasant View, Utah
    June 17, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    BYU and Utah are good programs. It's hilarious to hear the things said. I really think that Utah had better odds of going to the BCS in the Mountain West. Now they have a tougher schedule and great teams like USC and Oregon to fight with. Ya they can lose a game or two but they now have a Pac championship road block. Remember when Arizona and Arizona St. dominated the WAC and made the jump to the Pac? Neither of them have played in a BCS game to date. I'm guessing if they stayed with the WAC and then followed to the MWC they would have already played in the BCS.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    @stocton-

    So 1 point differences don't count to a BYU fan? Last second WINS don't count? Well you better take the last 3 wins the Y had against the Ute's off the record books then, as those don't count either according to your.

    That would leave only two legitimate wins in the series this decade:

    Utah 2-0
    52-21 utah
    48-24 utah

    LOL.

    You didn't think that one through did you.

    Or maybe you did, It's just that the Rules of NCAA football just don't apply to BYU.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 12:39 p.m.

    @showmeaytds
    I couldn't have said it better....actually I have...almost per batum...I think the two Arizona Schools have one Rose Bowl between them. Litterly the Original PAC with it's 8 teams became and remained all these years later the PAC-8.2. Now with Utah and Colorado they're just the new PAC-8.4. What gets me is that uteys think that they are on the inside looking out. They've been given two meaningless bones and put back in thier pens far from anywhere meaningful and still haven't been invited to the main table with the big boys...and yet they're content to have the wool pulled over thier eyes. It's actually quite mindboggling. What are they going to do when and not if... both Whittingham and Chow leave...probably sooner than later???

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 12:53 p.m.

    @forreal people...
    Dude... what matters is coming up in Sept...10th and 17th to be exact. Enjoy your 1 win over Montana State... and better hope that Wynn survives Memorial Colliseum and also hope there's enough of a Ute team to even keep up a one point disadvantage this next meeting. The BYU pass attack is back. This is going to be a much different BYU team than the one you squeeked by last November.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    Wow, I thought this was an article about Jordan Wynn being on the cover of some irrelevant magazine?

    You Tweedledee's and Tweedledum's deserve each other. A hundred years from now you all will still be gnawing at each others ankles with myopic stats and spin trying to prove who's team has been the best over some moving window of time.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:03 p.m.

    Stockton,

    Brilliant!! it sounds like you would have advised the U of U to turn down the PAC-12 invite, because it's meaningless.

    That's some pretty valuable "wool" that got pulled over the eyes of those fool's up on the Hill, right?.

    To throw arguments out there about Utah not being included in the Pac-12, even though the Ute's got invited to the Pac-12, is just as stupid as your arguemnt that: even though the Ute's beat won the 2010 BYU-Utah game, Utah really lost, and Utah is really the real loseres of the deal.

    Brilliant.

    Your so smart.

    I guess maybe after

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:10 p.m.

    @ Stockton,

    Ohhhhh, I get it. It's not that past that matters. It's not the present that matters, it's the future. Hard to follow, but I think i get it now.

    Since BYU is so good right now in June, and they really didn't loose to Utah back in November, and Utah stunk it up so bad winning against byu in November, BYU is clearly going to destroy Utah in September on the magnitude that only ute fans are used to enjoying:
    52-21
    48-24

    Like I said,it's a little hard to follow, but I think i get it now.

  • forreal people Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    bleed-

    If we did not enjoy arguing with eachother, we would not be on this board arguing with eachother. If you don't enjoy what your reading, knock it off.

    Thanks for pointing out to us that our arguments are over-the-top and filled with spin. I don't think we notice that about eachother.

    This stuff puts a smile on my face. I'm intitled to my fun.

  • che loco Springville, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:44 p.m.

    @ where's stock,

    Are you sure they include the women's sports into the APR calculations? If you go to the website (linked in this article) it shows the ncaa football teams' rankings with their corresponding coach next to them. If the APR were for the entire athletic program then why would Bronco (whose name is next to the Y's score) be responsible for the entire athletic's program?

    From what I understand, every team in every sport has their APR calculated individually. They also do an athletic program score, but that's not what clowntown was talking about (which I was correcting him on).

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    forreal

    "Since BYU is so good right now in June, and they really didn't loose to Utah back in November, and Utah stunk it up so bad winning against BYU in November, BYU is clearly going to destroy Utah in September on the magnitude that only ute fans are used to enjoying:"

    it wouldn't be too surprising; in fact, it could even be on the magnitude that only BYU fans are used to:

    27-0
    56-6
    56-28

    by the way, those are the scores of the next three BYU/Utah games following Utah's last 1-point upset of BYU

    but, wait there's more

    70-31
    45-22
    48-17
    37-17

    but, my all-time favorite was

    33-31

    a dagger that was more painful for Utah fans than that 56-6 beat down -- the largest margin of victory in the history of the BYU-Utah series

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    @che loco
    Well actually to be forthright and outright honest... I just took the round about joking way of saying who cares??? BYU coed jokes are old hat I know. So if it's that personal to you then I apologize...Honest!!!

  • KH Holladay, UT
    June 17, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    "but, my all-time favorite was

    33-31"

    Utebusters, wasn't that the game that byu won after losing to Utah four years in a row before that?

    "27-0
    56-6
    56-28

    by the way, those are the scores of the next three BYU/Utah games following Utah's last 1-point upset of BYU"

    Utebusters, that's pretty lame when you have to talk smack on what you think the next three scores will be in the series.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    Actually forreal people I think it's great that both Utah and BYU left the MWC for greener $$$ pastures. It will do wonders for both Universities down the road and I'm an advocate for keeping the rivalry. I just don't see Utah right now causing any giant Tsunami's in Football...and especially nothing as big as the one BYU caused in 1984. (LOL)

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 3:05 p.m.

    Hey forreal...uteys keep bringing up the overall w/l stats but most of those old games were played on your cow pasture not ours... and in those 20 or so early games the home team ...(Utah)...always got to pick which side they defended and did not rotate sides during the game like they do now. So we always had to run uphill while you guys got to run downhill. When we finally got a pasture of our own we made sure it was level...thus the term level playing field...(LOL) We pretty much dominated since...but... admittedly you have had a few good years

    Like I said... better hope there's enough of Wynn left after USC wears him down in his own backfield. What Utah or BYU did or didn't do last year really doesn't matter...only bragging rights were at stake...

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 3:10 p.m.

    KH

    "Utebusters, that's pretty lame when you have to talk smack on what you think the next three scores will be in the series"

    Not at all

    1978 Utah 23 BYU 22
    1979 BYU 27 Utah 0
    1980 BYU 56 Utah 6
    1981 BYU 56 Utah 28

    by the way, 1978 was Utah's ONLY win over BYU from 1972 until 1988

    2010 Utah 17 BYU 16

    will 2011 be like 1979? will history repeat itself? we'll have to wait and see, but consider this

    in 1985, defending national champion BYU was upset at UTEP 16-23

    next two games
    BYU 59 Wyoming 0
    BYU 44 Utah St 0

    in 2008, BYU beat Washington 28-27, but BYU's win was questioned because of that controversial unsportmanlike call on Jake Locker

    next two games
    BYU 59 UCLA 0
    BYU 44 Wyoming 0

    coincidence? we'll see

    but, it's interesting how history has a habit of repeating itself

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 17, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    Yes bleed go somewhere else to pick your nose... oops...I mean a fight.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    June 17, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    Utebusters,

    like I said, it's pretty lame when you talk smack on what you think the scores will be in the future. Utah dominates the series, so by your logic Utah will continue to dominate the series.

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 3:37 p.m.

    Where's Stockton ???

    You're also leaving out the fact that one of those 1890's BY Academy vs Utah "games" that the Utes count in their win total, was a spring scrimmage; otherwise, BYA finished with a 3-2 advantage over Utah

    Of course, BYU doesn't even count those games, so it's not an issue.

    What do the following, um, "entities" all have in common?

    YMCA
    Salt Lake High
    Crescents
    Westminster
    LDS College
    Diamond Butchers
    9th Cavalry
    All Hallows
    Carlisle Indian School
    Hawaii Nat'l Guard
    Fort Douglas
    Ogden High
    12th Infantry
    Oregon Short Line
    St. Vincent's
    Utah Alumni
    Occidental
    Whitman
    Fort Warren
    Honolulu All-Stars

    Answer: "teams" Utah beat, tied, or lost to, and count in Utah's "official" won/loss record, during the halcyon leather helmet days of Utah football

  • KH Holladay, UT
    June 17, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    Utebusters, I think I'm beginning to understand.

    For example:

    byu in 2010 lost to Air Force 35-14

    next two games
    byu 10 Florida St. 31 (I can't remember the exact scores)
    byu 16 Utah St. 28 (or something like that)

    Yeah, I'm starting to understand the trend you were talking about.

  • One Nil to the Arsenal! Gilbert, AZ
    June 17, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    @ Sammyg

    Actually Bo did get his facts straight. In 1984, BYU never played an opponent that finished the season ranked in the AP top 25. Pitt was ranked #3 coming into that season, not number 1 (Auburn was). Does it really matter anyways? PITT won 3 games all year, and even got beat by Temple at home. I'm not sure where I stand on this National Championship asterisk in 1984. You ran the table, and you were the only team to do that. But you beat a 6-5 Michigan team (barely) in the Holiday Bowl, handing them their 6th loss on the year. Now, I realize they couldn't control who they got to play in their bowl game, but lets me honest....did they really deserve the national championship that year? Ask Barry Switzer, but he's biased. I honestly feel that Utah had better, more respectable seasons in 2004 & especially 2008. They beat 2 top 7 teams (thrashed Alabama in their backyard) & beat two other top 25 teams (Zoobs). If it was the old days (80's) they would have been National Champions.

    Just got tickets for U vs Y in Sept. Zoobs, meet Thretton & Harvi.

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    KH

    By my logic, Utah dominated the series UNTIL 1964

    at that point Utah lead the series 2-34-4

    Conference Championships
    Utah 21
    BYU 0

    Top 25
    Utah 1 (#14 in the Coaches Poll)
    BYU 0

    Bowl Games
    Utah 2
    BYU 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame Inductees
    Utah 1
    BYU 0

    ----------

    Also, by my logic, BYU has dominated the series SINCE 1964

    Conference Championships
    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    Top 25 Finishes (both polls)
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    Bowl Games
    BYU 29
    Utah 14

    National Championships
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    National Individual Awards
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame Inductees
    BYU 7
    Utah 0

    Head-to-Head
    BYU 29
    Utah 17

    ----------

    Even during the Bronco/Kyle era

    Top 25 Finishes (both polls)
    Bronco 4 (including 3 in the Top 15)
    Kyle 2 (including 1 in the Top 15)

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 3

    Head-to-Head
    Bronco 3 (including 3 of the last 5)
    Kyle 3

    Kyle had one great season in 2008, but overall, Bronco has accomplished more in the final end of season report cards, the final polls.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    June 17, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    forreal people | 10:41 a.m. June 17, 2011
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    "All right my fellow College Football fans; its time to give up on the BYU fan base. We can be assured that BYU grads/fans have a Sevier reality/honesty block when it comes to the following truths:"
    ===

    ...That BYU won a NC in 1984?

    Dude, who has the block on reality when you argue that something that happened did NOT happen?

    Let the written past stand and deal with the future.

    (BTW, what is a "Sevier"?)

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    June 17, 2011 4:27 p.m.

    KH

    Sorry, you're still grasping at straws, but you're starting to understand the concept that there are repeating patterns in history; your example, just isn't one of them.

    The trend from last year that should most concern you is that one of the best quarterbacks of his generation started to develop his rhythm the second half of 2010. Utah fans may want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that it was solely attributable to the level of competition, but knowledgeable BYU fans who have been watching great BYU QBs since the 70's could clearly see that there was much more to Jake's remarkable improvement than simply playing weaker teams.

    Jake threw almost as many TD passes in the final 6 games of his Freshman season as Wynn threw during his entire Sophomore season.

    In a lot of ways, Jake is VERY similar to Jimmer. Utah fans have been very skeptical of both. Jimmer has already silenced the naysayers. Now it's Jake's turn.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 17, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    One Nil

    "In 1984, BYU never played an opponent that finished the season ranked in the AP top 25."

    So what's your explanation as to why all of those poll voters were so smart when it came to not ranking the teams BYU played, but so dumb when it came to ranking BYU #1?

    In early December, 1984, the final regular season polls were published with BYU ranked #1 in both the AP and Coaches.

    The poll voters had over a month to evaluate BYU's schedule before the final poll was published in early January, 1985.

    Do you honestly think that none of the voters bothered to check BYU's record? That none of them knew that BYU hadn't played any ranked opponents?

    Or is this all just sour grapes from naysayers who simply can't accept the fact that BYU won a legitimate national championship in 1984 and Utah fell short in 2004/2008?

    AP voters used the exact same procedures in 1984/2004/2008.

    The AP voters in 1984 felt BYU deserved to win the national championship.

    AP voters in 2004/2008 didn't feel Utah deserved to win the national championship.

    It's as simple as that.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 17, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    "Do you honestly think that none of the voters bothered to check BYU's record? That none of them knew that BYU hadn't played any ranked opponents?'

    phoenix,

    What does this the say about the college football season as a whole? If a team can win a *nc with an absolutely aweful SOS/no rannked teams on the schedule? Pretty sad and pretty undeserving.

    Back then Pollsters couldn't wrap the head around the notion that a team can be undefeated and still not worthy of a nc. let's all be thankfull for the BCS or what we'd see tody is a scramble for teams to load up on cupcakes with the sole mission to go undefeated.

  • KH Holladay, UT
    June 17, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    uteBusters,

    Now I'm really beginning to understand how you argue. When you bring up meaningless stats of 3 game spans from long long ago it means that byu has a trend of winning big after a loss. However, when I bring up a 3 game span that happened just last year to disprove your claim, it is totally irrelevant and meaningless.

    Ok, I understand.

  • Uteology Fort Worth, Texas
    June 17, 2011 5:37 p.m.

    @LonestarRunner

    "Actually that [1984] was the peak; it's been downhill since then."

    If you were at all objective, you'd realize how silly that statement is.

    ------------

    Really? In the MWC (in the BCS era):

    A) BYU's biggest accomplishment was beating #3 0-0 Oklahoma.

    B) Tell me how many non-Edward recruits have all those awards that you named?

    C) BYU used to produced players like Steve Young.... now its Utah and TCU producing more NFL players. That's probably why blue-blood Hansen picked Utah over BYU.

    D) BYU dominated the WAC they had 4 top 10 teams, but in the MWC the top 10 teams are: TCU 3, Utah 2, and BYU 0 No wonder we see BYU fans posting top 15 accomplishments, the bar has been lowered by BYU fans themselves.

    E) Tell me why is BYU 2-22 vs final ranked teams in the MWC? Utah has five wins since 2004 alone. The last final ranked BCS team that BYU beat was in 1996 with two legendary coaches, Edwards and Chow.

    Facts seem to suggest that without those two legends:

    1. BYU has lesser talent
    2. No "big wins"
    3. No top 10 teams

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2011 6:08 p.m.

    @ Uteology | 5:37 p.m. June 17, 2011
    Fort Worth, Texas

    We would have more talent, big wins and top 10 teams but:

    1) We were cheated
    2) Everybody hates us and
    3) We beat ourselves because we were over confident.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 17, 2011 7:34 p.m.

    Uteology

    @LonestarRunner

    "Actually that [1984] was the peak; it's been downhill since then."

    If you were at all objective, you'd realize how silly that statement is.

    ------------

    Really? In the MWC (in the BCS era):

    Really Uteology???

    You conveniently decide to skip 1985-1998, as if BYU didn't accomplish anything during that time period?

    Then you decide to use "big wins" during the BCS era as your ONLY criteria for validating your claim that it's been all "downhill" for BYU since 1984?

    Why don't you for once in your life try using just the slightest degree of objectivity in your "detailed analysis" of BYU?

    For instance, how do you justify Utah being deserving of playing for the 2004 NC when Utah didn't play any ranked regular season opponents and, in fact, played fewer regular season opponents with winning records than BYU 1984???

    Utah fans whine about being stuck playing lousy Pittsburgh in their bowl and use that as their excuse for Utah not winning the 2004 NC, but then mock BYU for being stuck playing lousy Michigan, but still winning a NC.

    Sounds more like petty jealousy than a real argument.

  • One Nil to the Arsenal! Gilbert, AZ
    June 17, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    @ Phoenix

    Can't tell you. But anybody that compares the two seasons will tell you that Utah was more deserving. Even you (swallow) have to admit that right? By the way, Washington received 18 first place votes AP votes that year, to BYU's 30 something. Does that tell you anything? How many of the those 18 votes do you think came from top programs? Thats what I thought. Here is an interesting article from The Bleacher Report in July of 2008. The article is by Stephen Black.
    It's titled "The 5 Most Undeserving National Champs of the Last 25 years." Who do you think is #1? Why don't you give it a glance.

  • One Nil to the Arsenal! Gilbert, AZ
    June 17, 2011 10:14 p.m.

    "Give the Cougars credit for going undefeated because there is not much else they did in 1984 to deserve national championship consideration. Several "mid-major" teams since, like Boise State in 2006, Utah in 2004, and Tulane in 1998, have gone undefeated only to miss out on any serious national title consideration.

    The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the regular season (Air Force), and did not play anyone who finished the season ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh, who finished the season 3-7-1.

    Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the national championship by playing in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. It is still the only Michigan team to finish without a winning record since 1967.

    The AP probably should've awarded their No. 1 ranking to Washington, a team that went 11-1 and won the Orange Bowl over No. 2 Oklahoma. Instead, the Huskies finished second in the final poll behind a BYU team that had not truly been tested all season.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 17, 2011 10:37 p.m.

    You know, I could quote the source of my statement of where Pitt was ranked 'at the time' as #1 but it would not make any difference, sufficeth to say that I did not make it up.

    I agree that the Utes probably got robbed in 2008, it was a great season but the fact remains... we (as in BYU) got a NC... U don't.

    Glad your poster child made a regional edition of a magazine that's sold in Salt Lake... 'Big whoop' as my dear friend Howard S. would say.

    Skinny boy better hope his O'line got some game against some bigger opponents.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 18, 2011 12:18 a.m.

    One Nil

    If you're going quote stats, at least do enough research to quote them accurately:

    Final AP Poll 1984
    #1 Brigham Young 13-0 (38) 1160
    #2 Washington 11-1 (16) 1140
    #3 Florida 9-1-1 (6) 1092
    #4 Nebraska 10-2 1017
    #5 Boston College 10-2 932
    #6 Oklahoma 9-2-1 883

    BYU finished with more than twice as many #1 votes as #2 Washington

    Both #4 Washington and #5 Nebraska were invited to play #1 BYU in the Holiday Bowl. Both turned down their invites to play lower-ranked teams.

    BYU moved into the #1 spot in the AP poll on November 20, 1984 with 40 first place votes.

    If #4 Washington had accepted their invitation to play #1 BYU in the Holiday Bowl, we wouldn't be having this conversation because this debate would have been settled 27 years ago.

    Either BYU would have lost, ending their championship hopes.

    Or BYU would have won, ending any arguments about not beating a ranked team.

    Regardless, BYU played Washington in early September, 1985, in a game some naysayers said would prove BYU was undeserving of the 1984 NC.

    BYU destroyed the Huskies 31-3.

  • flintrock Rigby, Id
    June 18, 2011 7:18 a.m.

    when I think about Wynn as our QB I get depressed. I mean really depressed. He is at best a D2 QB. To little and girly for me. To much running away and screaming when the pressure is on.

  • che loco Springville, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    @ where's stock

    Don't worry about it. However, it is confusing why you'd jump in on a conversation I was having with clowntown to correct me with incorrect info. But, I'm not offended by it and have no personal stake in it.

    I am amused that clowntown hasn't had anything to say since I put him to task about APR calculations.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    June 18, 2011 3:49 p.m.

    "The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the regular season (Air Force), and did not play anyone who finished the season ranked in the top 20. BYU's most impressive road win was at Pittsburgh, who finished the season 3-7-1.

    Lavell Edwards' squad clinched the national championship by playing in the Holiday Bowl against a 6-5 Michigan team, easily Bo Schembechler's worst squad in his 21 years in Ann Arbor. "

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2011 6:07 p.m.

    hedgehog

    "The Cougars defeated only one bowl team during the regular season"

    Way to compare apples to oranges hedgehog.

    In 1984, there were 19 bowls. It was alot harder to get into a bowl.

    In 2004, there were 29 bowls.

    In addition to Air Force(8-4), Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), and probably even Utah(6-5-1) would have played in a bowl in 2004.

    In 1984
    Air Force(8-4) beat Virginia Tech 23-7
    If the polls had included the Top 25, instead of only the Top 20, in 1984, Air Force would have been ranked in the final polls.

    In 2004, Utahs only three regular season opponents with winning records all went to bowls.

    Texas A&M(7-5) destroyed by Tennessee 7-38
    New Mexico(7-5) lost to Navy 19-34
    Wyoming(7-5) beat UCLA 24-21

    Yet, despite the Cougars less than stellar 1984 schedule, BYU still won a consensus national championship, proof of the national cachet BYU has.

    Utah, with their mediocre schedule and no national cachet, didn't even come close to a national championship in 2004, finishing 5th in the official BCS poll.

  • BluCoug Provo, UT
    June 18, 2011 9:36 p.m.

    The perfect cover(s) for EPIC fail!

  • MidMajor4ever Syracuse, UT
    June 18, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    Swoop,

    Utah had a 4th team with a regular season winning record, North Carolina (6-5)who also went to a bowl game.

    If you want to compare the 84 cougars to the 2004 Utes, lets look at the combined records of their competition:

    byu 61-86-2
    Utah 61-76

    Utah played one less game so to point out the difference, if Utah played a 13th game, the opponent would have to be 0-10-2 to even up the competition.

    Skywalker, why would Washington or Nebraska turn down January top tier bowl games with 20 times the revenue to play in a December mid tier Holiday Bowl?

    Also, Washington's 1985 team didn't compare to their 1984 team. They finished the year with five losses including a loss to Washington State. You will never know how good byu's 1984 team really was because they didn't play anyone and had to come from behind against Wyoming, Hawaii and Michigan. byu has had better teams that were not undefeated.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 19, 2011 12:52 a.m.

    MidMajor

    Combined records are meaningless. You evaluate schedules on a team by team basis.

    Trying to argue that playing one 11-1 team and one 1-11 team is equivalent to playing two 6-6 teams is something only a statistician would do.

    Any fan who knows anything about football could tell you that playing one really good team and one really bad team is not the same as playing two mediocre teams.

    "why would Washington or Nebraska turn down January top tier bowl games with 20 times the revenue to play in a December mid tier Holiday Bowl?"

    Um, is this a trick question?

    To play the #1 team for a chance to win the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

    That was Washington's problem. The Huskies thought they could have all three, the money, the more prestigious bowl, AND a chance to win the national championship by beating Oklahoma. Unfortunately for them, BYU was a little more highly respected than the Huskies gave them credit for.

    It's interesting that neither Washington nor Nebraska won their conference championships.

    btw, Washington also played Michigan in 1984.

    Washington beat Michigan 20-11.
    BYU beat Michigan 24-17.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 19, 2011 1:12 a.m.

    MidMajor4ever

    North Carolina finished the season 6-6; maybe that's considered a winning record in Syracuse, but up here in Park City, we consider that a break-even record.

    Playing the bowl game card just shows how desperate Utah fans are.

    In 1984, there were only 19 bowls.
    In 2004, there were 29 bowls.

    A second grader could do the math to calculate that TWENTY more teams played in bowls in 2004, than in 1984.

    Slice it anyway you like, but bottom line:

    Utah 2004 played THREE regular season opponents that finished with winning records:

    Texas A&M(7-5), Wyoming(7-5), and New Mexico(7-5)

    BYU 1984 played FOUR regular season opponents that finished with winning records:

    Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1)

    Guaranteed, playing Hawaii, Air Force and Utah on the road was ALOT tougher than playing Wyoming and New Mexico on the road.

    That's the funny thing about stats and SOS; they don't give a true picture of reality.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    June 19, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    Hedgie...seems like that was Bo's fault not BYU's...and the Holiday bowls for inviting Michigan as well as Barry Schwitzer's fault for his Schooner's falling flat on thier faces and Coach James for his Huskies not looking great and for Nebraska for stumbling also when it counted blah...blah...blah...the bottom line is dude... BYU went undefeated...it was the only one standing... and it got all the votes... there is no glass pedistal...and even dynamyte can't bring the 84 Championship down...so being a pesty fly in the ointment is just that...a pesty fly in the ointment.

  • hohum Saint George, UT
    June 19, 2011 10:30 a.m.

    The last 20 years in football, BYU has 9 top 25 finishes, utah 5. Before you all start saying that is ancient history, lets get more current.

    Last 10 years BYU 5 top 25, Utah 5, notice anything? All of utahs finishes have come in the last 10 years, actually the last 7 years, 4, 5, 21, 18 and 23.

    BYU during that time 12, 15, 15, 21, 24.

    These are the COACHES, not the writers polls, which do you want to believe knows the most about football and teams? Coaches or writers, before you answer remember 1984 was number 1 by both.

    Not that the past makes any difference only the future will tell and all of you can predict but playing the game is the only way to decide who was better, not that it really matters. There will be excuses by each, the winner will have done better expcept for..... and the looser would have won except for.....

    I enjoy u all, because of the passion you show for your teams. Go to the games and cheer your team on, once the game is over leave it at the field. The players sure do.