As it should be.Watch J.J. Barea.Fred is bigger, just as
quick, fearless and relentless.I started out as a total skeptic,
Freshman through first half of Junior year.I went from skeptic to
maybe he is good, 2nd half of Junior year through December of Senior year.From January to April, my wife heard nothing but "On my
goodness" (cleaned up for DN).Fred is the real deal.
Heaven help coach Corbin if the Jazz take Fredette. The crowd will chant
"put in Jimmer" until Corbin does, an they'll boo Corbin when he takes
Sorry yourself Harmon, Fredette is better than advertised. Its fun watching
bleacher report eat their own words. If Utah drafts a guard at 3 other than
Fredette, and Freddete does what many think he will, the Jazz will look
completely foolish. There is a reason why other "elite" guards are
avoiding working out with him. Respectfully, you don't know any more than we do
Harmon, your guessing just like the rest of us. What is Gregg Miller supposed to
say? "We want him" and start hyper start the Jimmer war? c'mom.
He's gone by 12. If the Jazz want him, they'll need to trade up. Period.
I have never been a fan of any NBA team, but I will become an instant fan of
whatever team drafts Jimmer.
Fact: open shots are abundant in the NBA... so much for defense.Fact: many
NBA players don't hit the open shots. 10' shots are not in style.Fact: out
scoring the other guys is still the name of the game and great scorers are
rare.Fact: Jimmer hits open shots with high regularity.Bottom
line: Odds are now on him being a top 10.
My initial thought to seeing Jimmer drafted by the Kings is NOOOOOOOO! After
thinking about it might be a place where he can get a significant amount of
playing time his rookie year and the Kings will be moving in another year
anyway."The novelty will wear off" statement by Mr. Miller
was regarding to the attendence boost the Jazz would get if Jimmer was on the
bench but not playing. If he played and was good the crowds would come to see
him play for years. It is a tough decision. I would not take him at #3. The Jazz
need a center and Kanter is the best one available. If the Jazz take a guard at
#3 it will be one of the other two point guards. If they do take a big with #3
and Jimmer is still there at #12 they should take him. He has as much up-side as
anyone who will be left, but I think he will be gone before #12. The Jazz will
probably get another tall, skinny, weak european.
If you don't draft him, you'll be worried about defending him.I'd
take him at #1. But that's just me.He'll bomb the Jazz like he did
the Utes. Sacramento will make him a superstar.
My hope would be that Jimmer becomes a big star in Dallas and that the Jazz
regret passing him up forever. After all, the Jazz has done so well in making
the most of their draft picks.
@ Moderate | 12:56 p.m. June 10, 2011 Salt Lake City, UT Could
you imagine the daily updates on "Jimmer with the Jazz" if the Jazz
picked him? His daily routine would be more newsworthy than the success/failure
of the team. I wish Jimmer well and hope that he succeeds in the NBA but I
don't think Stockton and Malone received this much coverage - and they are now
Risk vs reward, I hope Jimmer goes to the Knicks.
The Jazz are most likely to pick Knight at 3. Teams may trade up
into the top 10 and change the picks. Jimmer may or may not move up into the top
10. If he does then a good player will move down. It is doubtful MIL takes
Jimmer at 10. For the Kings to take Jimmer they have to pass on
Vesley, Leonard, Biyombo, Thompson and Burks. Valanciunas, and the
above could easily drop depending on who moves up and on buy outs, work outs
etc. There is also a lot of smoke provided by agents and teams. The Jazz could go Knight and Jimmer. However, Hayward is going to be
better at SG.The Jazz should take the BPA at 12. There will be
talent to choose from at 12. If the Jazz could get Valanciunas, or Vesley at 12
they probably should do it. Jimmer is NOT going to bust. However, he
would probably back up Knight and Hayward at PG/SG if Knight is selected at
3.I like Kanter at 3. Knight, Valanciunas, Vesley or Williams are
okay.Jimmer is better than most 6-10 picks at 12. He is good for the
He will go lower than the Fredette fans think, he is a college bb player, but
won't be a star in the NBA.
The Jazz shouldn't take him. He needs to be somewhere a little less structured.
Jimmer should have a successful career but it won't be with the Jazz. Take of
the goggles off him playing locally and look at the Jazz system and it is not a
good fit for either.
He will always be scored on by the bigger athletic guards in this league. Just
like most guards in this league are. But he can be a true scoring threat in the
NBA. Particularly, as this article noted, because you can't double and hand
check. If JF is guarded in the NBA like he was at BYU he will average 20 foul
shots a game. As great as his offensive game was at BYU it is actually even more
suited for the NBA. I'm not saying his overall game justifies 30 minutes a game
at least not for a few years. But he is ready to put up 20 a game in the NBA
tomorrow if given the minutes.
Don't worry Jazz fans! Bozo O'conner wouldn't take Jimmer even if He was
available at 12. Jazz are a joke! Jimmer shouldn't even waste his time working
out for Jazz. Just skip over them and head straight to Phoenix. I'm hoping
Jimmer ends up in Phoenix, New York, Miami, or somehow, someway ends up with the
LA Lakers. We all know that the bigger the stage, the bigger Jimmer plays!
WoodyFF,History shows that any draft class has maybe 2 stars, a few who
eventually become good NBA players and a bunch of utility guys along with more
busts than stars and good NBA players combined. I don't think Fredette will be a
star either but believe he will eventually become a good NBA player and have a
Only two teams, BYU and Siena, recruited Jimmer out of high school even though
he was one of the most prolific scorers in New York prep history.Having seen Danny Ainge play as a freshman, I could tell that Jimmer was going
to be a special player from the first time I saw him step on the floor at the
Marriott Center. Even as a freshman with limited playing time behind some other
pretty good guards, Jimmer exuded that air of confidence that only the greats
have - a confidence that surpasses cockiness, which is common place.I don't have any doubts that Jimmer can carry that confidence and playing
ability to the next level, and given the right coach and team, Jimmer could be a
star in the NBA.If Jimmer is available at #12 and the Jazz pass on
him, they'll be regretting that decision for years to come.
Don't get me wrong, I think Fredette can be a very good pro, but in the top 10
picks teams are looking for home-run, franchise guys.As a PG, the
only really superior skill Jimmer has to other top picks is his shooting
ability, which for a PG just isn't the most important thing to have. I think he
can be a great bench guy, or maybe even a starter for a poor team but c'mon, do
you really see Fredette going toe-to-toe and really competing with Rose, Wall,
D-Will, CP3, Rondo, or Westbrook?
Even as a Ute Alum and BYU hater, I like Jimmer. If he is the best player
available at 12 the Jazz should pull the trigger. But I really hope Jimmer ends
up somewhere else, I really don't want to sit next to some Jimmer troll at a
Jazz game who's acting like a 13 year old girl at a Justin Beiber concert.I don't want to sit next to some Jimmer troll complaining that Jimmer
should be getting more min, that Jimmer should be starting, that Jimmer will be
a first ballot hall of famer.I don't know who the Jazz should pick
at 3 and 12, hopefully it will be the best players on the board, hopefully they
will be guys who can make a difference in a year or 2 and hopefully it's not
Jimmer is good but he will need a few years of NBA before he comes great or
bust, one thing that is going on is the dam medea is blowing him all out of
shape and now its a pain that the Jazz could of took him at number 12. now
because of them its going to be hard to get him at 12 and if Jimmer is a bust
then the meda will eat their words by saying that he's better then he is. Well I
hope for the jazz that they don't believe what all is said, and do the right
thing and get the best players for the team.
I agree that if he's still around at 12 the Jazz should take him, but I doubt
he'll be there. He'll bring a good work ethic to any team, but more importantly
he'll bring an overall knowledge of the game that has been lacking in the NBA
From G-Swenz "do you really see Fredette going toe-to-toe and really
competing with Rose, Wall, D-Will, CP3, Rondo, or Westbrook?"Yah, he certainly struggled against Derick Williams and those fantastic
Florida guards. And the Gonzaga D was going to eat his lunch - not to mention
Leonard and that clown from UNLV. This is all we have heard all year - that the
bigger more athletic guards from X were going to shut Jimmer down. FYI, he has
already played against many of these guys last summer and did just fine.
The facts are that this draft stinks because of lack of talent. These guys
getting drafted in the top 5 would be lucky to be top 10 in a normal year.No wonder the Jazz have been rumored to be trying to move down in this
draft. No sense paying these guys $4million plus when any other year you would
be paying the talent half that because they would be available mid to late first
round.It really stinks we have 2 high picks in such a horrible
talent year. Clueless fans will be on here babbling for years and blaming
O'Connor because these guys don't become allstars. Its not his fault the talent
available is a great big pile of mediocre.Now you know why they Jazz
have worked out a bunch of guys that won't be getting drafted top 12. They are
trying to move down.Favors would be a run away #1 pick if he were
coming out this year. Hayward would likely be top 3 as well.Ronnie
Price would likely be top 10 too. Just kidding on that one:)
Please Lakers! Make a move to get Jimmer. It would be crazy if Jimmer finds his
way to Hollywood. Oh please make it happen! Jazz suck! They wouldn't know how to
@PPAgainst Florida and UCLA6 Assists 13 TurnoversTO Ratio: .46
G-SwenzI've sparred with you before and it's truly obvious that you
have your head in the sand. Congratulations on picking two games where Jimmer
didn't fare so well. Do you really want to open yourself up to the counter of so
many games where his numbers were mindboggling? Here's a clue: They are far more
numerous against quality competition than the far and few between that you could
possibly conjure up that weren't so great. Just off the top of my head, I dare
you to look up the box scores of the 2011 AZ at ESA game, or the 2010 at AZ
game, or the SDSU at BYU game, or the at SDSU game, both 2011. Or the round of
32 NCAA tourney vs. Gonzaga. I really could go on and on and on but the DNews
has a word limit!But, since haters hate and that's all they know how
to do, then, I guess, carry on!
It would be grand to see Jimmer witht he Mavs. Like I said before, can you
imagine teams trying to cover Dirk and Jimmer? Mavs need another consistant
scorer. That would be Jimmer.Mr. Cuban, please trade up to get
@Naked TruthIf you read my last post before that I don't see how I'm
hatin'.He could be a very good player coming off the bench. But I
bring up Florida and UCLA because they are the teams who had the best guards! He
is a great scorer, but who in the NBA wants their starting PG to be solely a 3
pt. shooter? Despite playing against teams like Chicago St., Missouri Valley
St.,Vermont, Weber, Buffalo,Fresno Pacific, CSU, and Wyoming twice, he still
only has an A/T ratio of 1.22. He isn't that great of a facilitator.So I'm sorry that by stating that I wouldn't take him in the top 10, I am now
a total Fredette hater.
Jimmer is going to be successful in the NBA. The big question is
should the Jazz draft him? He is a going to be a good pick at 12. I
think he is a safer pick than Leonard, Biyombo, Burks, Thompson or most of the
Euros who would be available at 12.How he fits into the Utah scheme
IF they draft Knight is different question. He can shoot. If JJ
Barea can get his shots, Jimmer can also. Should Jimmer start over
Hayward at SG? Probably not. Should he start over Knight at PG. Probably not.
However, he could get 25-30 minutes a night and contribute a lot.Jimmer is a good pick for the Jazz at 12.
I think the comment about the Cougarettes getting booed by some Jazz fans during
half time say plenty about the Jazz and the crowd. I have kind of hoped that
Jazz would select Jimmer at 12. People have knocks on the young man and they may
have some validity. First, concerning defense. You play team defense in the NBA.
That is a learned skill. Second, name pure shooters in the NBA. Well, loud
mouthed ignorant fans, have a hard time with that one! Jimmer is a pure shooter,
with range. You can't teach that one folks. With that skill, you change the
game. Opposing teams have to change their defense because spacing has now
changed. The game is altered. He would be a serious cog on a team built to
change the game. All of you anti-BYU Jazz fans need to rethink your position. I
am starting to rethink my position. Jimmer to Sacramento or Pheoniz. Future Jazz
Could have done without the entire first half of this story. TMI! Don't need to
hear about Grandma or Mother-in-law or anybody else living at home and getting
things frozen at the doctor! Stick to the pertinent elements of this story which
would have made it about 3 sentences long. Thanks for that Dick H.!
I really think that Jimmer will go to Sacramento at the #7 pick. Why? Because
the Kings really need a PG and both Knight and Kemba Walker will be gone by the
time #7 rolls around. Furthermore, Jimmer apparently had a very good showing in
his pre-draft workout in Sacramento.So, it looks unlikely that
Jimmer will be available for the Jazz at the #12 pick.
My only concern with Jimmer is on the defesive end. I know how he will match up
against the likes of Williams, Rose, and Rondo. I think he will do fine, but I
don't think he's stopped anyone either. He certainly isn't stopping any of
these top tier players. trading baskets for baskets is fools gold. Boozer
scored, but his guy always matched. I hope he does well, and I think he can.
He'll score his points, but to be great you're net gain needs to be more than
the guy your guarding. Here's hoping he gets there.
Five years from now when Jimmer is a superstar in the NBA, Jazz fans will be
asking why Jimmer wasn't drafted in 2011. While I would like to see Jimmer play
in Utah where I and my family could see him play in person, I would rather have
him on a winning team with a real chance to play for a championship, something
unlikely to happen in Utah. He may be the most underrated player ever to enter
the draft and will prove all the "experts" wrong.
Hopefully the Jazz don't take him as he needs to go somewhere else outside of
his fan base and not be distracted with all of the local attention - both
positive and negative, as the Jazz fans are primarily a mix of BYU and Utah
fans.I would like him to go the Kings as he will be closer to where
I live, or the Knicks as it would be closer to his home town, or to the Suns
where he can learn from the top notch Steve Nash, although would love to see him
as an LA Laker and shoot alongside Kobe, but not sure that will be an option for
him. I'm sure he will be picked by number 13 w/o question. Watching
him in his workouts, it seemed as though every shot was a clean swish. I predict
him to be a solid NBA player and will cheer him on regardless of the NBA team he
Matt Harpring was saying that Jimmer would have to prove he can guard Derrick
Rose, Russell Westbrook et. al. Really? How has that worked out for the other
guards in the league since one was the MVP and the other was in the final 4?
Reminds me of those who complain about the return missionary issue
when they compare BYU's oldest players with the freshmen on other teams saying
that it's BYU's 25-year-olds against 18-year olds instead of being honest and
having enough sense to realize that someone who has been on 2-year mission will
be, wait for it, 2 YEARS OLDER. So 25 vs. 23 or 21 vs. 19 (and a break in
training continuity). Hey Matt, how about for this coming year we
compare Jimmer to other incoming rookies? Wait, that doesn't fit the narrative
because he already showed that he can fit in just fine against those he's coming
We don't need Kanter, he isn't going to be any good in the league.
1. The JAZZ need a good big-man 1st of all - without one they will never ever
advance after the reqular season ends. 2. Jimmer will
DEFINATELY not be available at the 12th pick.3. With Mark Jackson as
the Warriors coach- I would love to see him work with Jimmer.4. Where ever he goes Jimmer will be an asset if he stays healthy - there will
be lots of guys going after him - he is the player of the year 2011
& he is a white dude. Everyone knows white dudes can play b-ball.
The Draftexpress podcast of David Locke and draft expert Jonathan Givony is
insightful. Givony emphasizes that Jimmer will be a good player in the right
team framework (perhaps Pacers, Knicks, Suns). Jimmer himself notes the
importance of going to a team where his skills work with the style of team play
(and so far that style is not Jazz ball). When asked what two draft picks have
the best chance of becoming all stars, Givony answers Irving and Biyombo.
Biyombo is a beast.
Ya'll know how I feel about Jimmer's rise from workouts, so no further
comment.I'll Jimmer ya later! ;-)
Here is hoping Jimmer gets drafted by the Knicks.He deserves nothing
less. The Biggest Stage.They'll need to move up.Sacramento ugg...Anaheim...OK
TJ -I'm not saying he won't be a good NBA player, won't make the all stars, will
probably play 8 years. He just is not the player that a lot of people on this
board think he is.
Oops, I'm back.Jimmer's knocks:> Undersized.RE: Nash, Barea. Stupid argument.> Can't play defense.Jimmer is among the all-time career leaders in steals at BYU. Maybe his
6'5" wingspan fools the PGs he's guarding that are taller than him--they
don't think he can reach that far. THE most important defensive stat is
steals.Also, defense in the NBA is primarily done as a team. Have
you noticed that both Miami and Dallas play great team defense? They don't rely
on one-on-one defense.Even Corbin has shown he understands team
defense, judging by how the Jazz closed the last season.> Can't
score around the basket.Really? That's where he got MOST of his
points. An old golf saying is, "drive for show, put for dough."
Jimmer's long bombs are the "show" that got his name known. He makes
his scoring money INSIDE the trey line.> Turnover prone.That's a direct result of how much the ball was in his hands AND teammates
that seldom produced. He won't have that issue as a PG in the NBA.Knock, knock. Who's there? Jimmered "knocks."
Jimmer will be better in the NBA than many people think!It's called
MENTAL TOUGHNESS!Most players do not have it.
@ Woodyff,You can bet most GMs that have a lottery pick are worrying
about having to defend Jimmer if they don't draft him.Jimmer's
ability to score, even against NBA talent as he easily displayed a summer ago
(prompting Durant to sing his praises later), will give teams nightmares when
preparing for whichever team Jimmer lands with.The more teams he
tests with, and the more the other top guards shy away from being tested with
him (presumably for fear of being shown up), the harder it becomes for teams to
figure out who to draft first.By my reckoning, there are only two
bigs that are "all that" in this draft (Williams & Kanter), and
they'll go within the first three picks.The question that teams are
asking themselves more and more is whether to draft Jimmer before any of the
other PGs. Each test of Jimmer brings that question more to the forefront.Jimmer won't have three other PGs picked ahead of him.I bet
some position trading will happen between teams.
Best place for Jimmer to play in the NBA is anywhere but the Jazz. He should
get out of Utah.
Wow, my prediction a month ago was Jimmer would go into the top 5. I'm getting
close....back then he was >15I'm just wondering if Irving will
fall to 3 or not and if the Jazz will take him as he probably won't work out
with Jazz.Jazz heads are in Europe and word is they like Vesley
alot. So it'll look like its going to come down to Kanter, Vesley, Jimmer,
Knight, Williams, or Irving depending on how Minny and Cleveland pick. I have a
good feeling about Jimmer's workout with the Jazz next week so that's why I
included him up there.
It's not surprising to me that Jimmer is proving better than some doubters
thought he would, I doubt Jimmer will be available at 12, I hope the Jazz take a
big at 3, Kanter would be my first choice, but Vesely would be interesting, if
he could shoot better, I would like him alot better. Jimmer would be my top
choice at 12, but like I said, I don't think he is going to last that long. It
would be nice though. Jimmer would be BPA if he lasted to 12. If the Jazz take
Knight at 3, I hope Biyombo slides to 12 and we take him, or maybe Montejunas
slides to 12.
Good old Dr. Stone! What a great guy. I too would buy season tickets to see
Jimmer. They'd have to be in the nosebleed section, though ;)
Cleveland takes Irving at the #1 spot. That is not even debatable. Williams
probably goes #2 but it is not absolutely certain. He could slip to #3, but
that is unlikely.After that, it all depends on what the Jazz do with
the #3 pick. They will take Derrick Williams with the #3 pick, if he is
available. However, Williams will probably be off the table, so the Jazz will
have to take somebody else.They could draft Brandon Knight or Enes
Kanter. Either of those two is a great pick but my guess is they choose the big
man -- Kanter. If that happens, they may not draft a PG at #12, as Irving,
Knight, Walker, and Jimmer will probably be gone. Should be
interesting on June 23.
@What'sInItForMe - keep your hopes up, I really don't think he is star quality
in the NBA. Everyone locally wants to think he is the great, I don't agree.
This is a week draft, being taken high in this draft doesn't mean much. Playing
at BYU and in the MWC is not the NBA. Where he is drafted isn't really that
important. It will come to producing at the NBA level, he will be average. Not
Jimmer's stock will continue to rise as more and more NBA teams get to know him,
his commitment, work ethic, and basketball I.Q. All things that are intangibles
but that can make or break any athlete's career.Meanwhile, another
potential BYU star B-Baller just got offered a scholarship after his freshman
year of high school. T.J. Haws, (Marty's son and Tyler's little brother)was the
second leading scorer behind Nick Emery on Lone Peak's state championship team
last season as a freshman. If everything works out, T.J. could play his
freshman year with Tyler as a senior. I know both of these young men very well
and they are great players and great kids. I wish them well and can hardly wait
to see them play together!
There are alot of possibilities for the Jazz, at the 3 spot, I hope they get a
big, order of priority for me would be , Kanter, Jonas V., Vesely, if they don't
like any of these guys at 3, then Knight is probably the choice, (this all is
assuming that Williams and Irving are gone). If the Jazz go big at 3, I hope
Jimmer can fall and be available at 12, if not then Singleton, Burk, Harris,
Hamilton, Brooks could be good choices. IF they take Knight at 3, then I hope BB
falls to 12, or Montejunas, if not them then Burk,Singleton,Hamilton, Harris,
Brooks, all of these players would be interesting but my 1st choice would be
Kanter and Jimmer. Even though no one really thinks this is possible, I
could make a pretty good arguement that Jimmer is just as good or better than
Knight and would be worthy of being picked at the 3 spot, Knight is young and
will develop but Jimmer is a better shooter, better handles, better at getting
to the line, better passer IMO, defense probably goes to Knight, if Knight is
picked it will be on potential????.
JImmer and Kemba played 4/3 years of college ball. They have years of readily
available video that is much more reliable than what is available on Kanter or
Biyombo. The rest of the Euros have years of ball at a high level. They are
easier to assess. Kanter and especially Biyombo are very risky
picks. It will take years to develop Biyombo.Vesley, Valanciunas and
Motie are MBA ready but with flaws that can be corrected? It would not surprise
me to see the Jazz draft Vesley at 3 IF they think they can fix his shooting.
That is a big IF. But he replaces AK which is the biggest need. The
Jazz could trade down with TOR or maybe SAC and still get Vesley. However, I am
not sure how motivated those teams are to move up.Harris could
easily be traded on draft night (for Jimmer) to a lotto team looking for a
talented seasoned PG.However, it would be better to draft Jimmer and
trade Harris (at some time) for a future pick. The Jazz are in the
driver seat on this draft. What they do cascades every pick below them. KOC will milk it.
Since I am in Texas, I want Jimmer at San Antonio (yeah I know, it is a pipe
dream) I would definitely drive there to see him play- a lot. He is fun to
watch and his plays and moves can really wow you. I wish him well.
Even though I like to think of Jimmer as Chuck Norris there is no denying he is
a very talented ball player. I hope he does well in the NBA and stays strong to
I have been around basketball most of my life and, quite frankly, do not like
the NBA. However, if Jimmer plays, I will watch.
What I love is everyone, those who love him and hate him, are going to follow
him closely that first year and will honestly want to see him play and shoot
those monster shots from beyond the NBA 3 (especially half court 3's like on the
U's court!!!!!!). No player last year was more fun to watch, which was part of
the reason for being nominated as the best player in college.
Whatever team picks Jimmer is my new team. If the Jazz are not smart enough to
pick the best shooter to come out in years they don't deserve my loyalty. He is
not only a great shooter he can create his own shot. No current player on the
Jazz can create his own shot. I think there are thousands of fans
who'll do the same. Then there is the day when Jimmer comes to Utah
a score 30+ on the sad Jazz and KOC can tell us why he wasn't the best pick. BS!
@ Bugoff,I can't believe the idea of trading Harris for a higher
pick to get Jimmer hasn't been mentioned by anyone before. Great idea!However, that'd mean the Jazz wouldn't have any experience at PG next year,
and would likely NEED to bring back Watson.But, it would also mean
Jimmer'd get immediate experience, being allowed to grow like Matthews did.Interesting trade thought!
My bold prediction is that Jimmer will win the Rookie of the Year or be very
close (Top 3 in voting). He will be a solid NBA player. I hope the Jazz draft
him, the kid can play. I know there is this anti-Jimmer movement out there
because he has local ties to BYU, he's white so automatically labeled NBA bust.
But the kid can play, pure and simple. He can fill it up.
You have to guard him the second he crosses mid-court. You double team him and
that leaves somebody else open.
Bug: I agree that BB & Kanter are more risky picks, especially BB, reports
are that in his workout he shot terrible, he is what he is, a defensive
specialist. He is good at it though.Kanter I really like but a few days
ago I saw video of him in HS and didn't like what I saw. He showed no desire to
play D, if that were to continue to be a problem, I would say no to him too. I'm
hoping it's not a problem.Vesely, I have been on his bandwagon for 2 yrs,
but the fact he can't shoot and his ball handling is suspect is very troubling,
the other aspects of his game I like. If he can play the 3, he could be our pick
at 3, but if he can't play the 3, I don't want him. Love that he has a good
motor though.A quality (skill) that is sometimes over looked is
motor/huslte/effort, Mathews had it, CJ doesn't, BB has it, Vesely & Jonas
have it. Kanter & Montejunas are questionable.Jimmer may not last
until we pick at 12, I'dloveto seeusgethim.
The Jazz have Harris, a guy who was an all star before he got stuck on the worst
team in the NBA. Trading him to get an unproven point guard would be idiotic
unless it was for a can't miss like Kyree Irvine. Point guard is not their
biggest weakness, outside shooting is. If they get Williams, Kanter
or Veseley they could trade Jefferson or Milsap or both for a really good
outside shooter. If they take Knight with the third pick they won't help
themselves at all, he would just be a backup for Harris.
@What Nice tongue in cheek. I actually suggested keeping Harris for part of
next year and then moving him for a pick and other consideration.I
also am hearing BB did poorly in evaluations and is dropping which may raise
Jimmer. However, Burks and Leonard are moving up and the Jazz are bringing in
Leonard for a look at the 3. I still like Kanter. I am less worried
about his D as almost all of his film is very early stuff against high school
students. You can't assume he is bad on D until he is required to play D.
However, it is a big question. Kanter like Knight is hurting himself by refusing
to go head to head with good competition in the work outs. He could drop. There is also a chance CLE drafts Williams at 1 due to foot injury
worries on Irving and then takes the best PG available at 4.Vesley's
shooting is a BIG worry. VAL has buyout problems (probably over come). Moutie is
probably available at 12 but there are questions about his motor.The
Jazz are getting serious about an SF at 3.
@What you are close to the truth. The Jazz are actively shopping Harris and he
may go on draft day. In a lock out short season, the Jazz COULD run
the team with Watson and a young PG. They would (SHOULD) end up back in the
lotto next year with 2 picks (GS and Utah) PLUS what they get for Harris. Too
many new players to integrate in a short season = lotto. I suspect
Harris and Bell will get upgraded. IF the Jazz go Knight they were planning on
playing Harris and Knight together for a while. Harris defends well
and slashes. Knight or Jimmer (PG) would open up the inside for Harris (SG) and
the bigs. However, there are much better, cheaper SGs than Harris. KOC/Greg appear to be determined to make any changes they need in the long run
to build a winner. This is going to take 2 years. They SHOULD sacrifice next
year to building a winner thru the draft. 2 more lotto picks in a
strong draft AND resources from possible trades of Harris, Bell, Millsap and/or
AJ SHOULD produce a contender similar to OKC.Draft well and win.
Laker fan here. I'll tell you. I would love to see him in LA. Lakers haven't
had a guy they could count on from 3 range since Michael Cooper. Yeah, I said
it. Sorry, Fish, you need to come off the bench and teach Jimmer
the game. Shannon Brown needs to go. Keep Blake one more year, so he can feed
Jimmer. I know the prospect of playing 2 white guys at 1 and 2 scares some
people, but I want to see it. Won't happen, though, alas, Lakers pick at 41.
Maybe they give up Brown and picks 46, 56, 58 to move up to trade 41
for Phoenix' 13 if Jimmer is still available. PHX could use more draft
picks....a guy can dream, can't he?
@ Bugoff,I'm not worried about Kanter's D, just whether he can learn
to play team-wise at the NBA level in a short enough time to make him a 3rd
pick. D can be taught, if the player cares enough to learn it. Kanter seems
athletic enough, and seems to care.HOWEVER, I believe a 3rd pick,
which doesn't come around all that often for teams vying for playoffs each year,
should be for someone who can contribute in no later than their 2nd year. Jimmer
and Williams I think fit that bill, but I'm not so sure about Kanter.And you're correct that if the season is shortened, Watson and Jimmer won't
hurt the team (as their only two PGs).
The ONLY way the Jazz get stars is to draft them in the lotto. A 3
pick SHOULD produce a star, at top 5 player at their position. Knight and Kanter are the only players available to the Jazz who probably are
stars. Jimmer has an outside shot. Kanter is just as quick/fast as
Williams. That means he CAN play defense. It is just a matter of getting him to
focus on it. He can replace AJ or Millsap. AJ is to slow too defend well.
Millsap is too short. Kanter can shoot from the outside and should develop a lot
of good inside moves. He may be ready in a couple of years when AJ and Millsap
contract's are up. Knight is ideal for the Jazz but he is a little
light for screens. He is intelligent, hard working, as fast as Rose, can defend
and shoot. He needs time to develop PG skills. IF he is the PG of
the future the Jazz need to grab him. OR they could go with Jimmer IF they can
get him. OR they try to get a PG next year. Knight is safer. Good
Bigs are rarer.
I'm a BYU and a Jimmer fan, but c'mon! Let's trade Devin Harris, to move up to
take Jimmer?...Jr. - Deron Williams - Illinois - 6.8apg - 2.42 A/TO ratio
- 1.0 spgSo. - Chris Paul - Wake Forest - 6.6apg - 2.38 A/TO ratio -
2.4 spgSo. - Rajon Rondo - Kentucky - 4.9apg - 2.11 A/TO - 2.0 spgFr. - Derrick Rose - Memphis - 4.7apg - 1.77 A/TO - 1.2 spgSo. -
Russell Westbrook - UCLA - 4.3apg - 1.74 A/TO - 1.6 spgJr. - Devin
Harris - Wisconsin - 4.4apg - 2.14 A/TO - 1.8 spgSr. - Jimmer
Fredette - BYU - 4.3apg - 1.22 A/TO - 1.3 spgAll these guys played
against better competition, were underclassmen, and still put up better numbers.
HE CAN BE GOOD! But he is not a franchise PG.
@ G-Swenz The stats are no better than the conditions that created them. They
do capture reality pretty well. However, you are imputing that the stats are
ONLY a reflection of Jimmer's talent. His lower apg is partly a
function of the BYU offensive style/strategy. Since his assists are
lower, his A/TO tends to be lower. His TOs are higher due to double/triple
teams, high minutes handling the ball and being THE offense.His
steals per game is lower but Jimmer actually avoided defense in BYU scheme. How much of the stats are Jimmer's ability and how much are BYU's
strategy implementation is a very open question. Jimmer is fast WHEN he needs to
be. He plays D WHEN he is supposed to. Jimmer is moving up because
he is demonstrating he CAN play D in the work outs. He is better than his stats
indicate. Can he be a star PG? I think Irving/Knight have higher
probabilities but Jimmer COULD be as good as DWILL in 5 years. It mainly depends
on his ability to run the team. He can defend well enough BUT can he orchestrate
a traditional offense?
I hope the Jazz pick Jimmer for many reasons. My first thought is for financial
reasons, after all, this is a business. Then I think back to last years group
and look at our shooting problems. We need to be able to let the bigs work the
paint and when the wings miss a shot, the paint won't be as packed and we can
have AJ/PM/DF pulling down rebounds! Teams will have to guard Jimmer right away,
other rookie players are going to have to prove that they can hit open jumpers.
Can't leave Jimmer open.Last year teams would pack the paint and
force our guards and wings to make jump shots. Just imagine having a player with
that kind of range, speed, and hunger to win, that is Jimmer! I hope
the Jazz draft Jimmer, we need him.
Another solid argument to draft Jimmer, is the fact that he could easily become
the closer that this team desperately needs. I don't think that this draft has a
guy better prepared to make the game winning shots and score points in bunches
when his team needs points in the fourth quarter. Having a solid offensive
threat is exactly what the Jazz need.Draft the Jimmer show.
@BugoffI agree with you. Stats are subjective, and who really knows
how good he will be down the road. I just wouldn't take Jimmer in the top 10. I
think he could be a good, pretty safe pick-up later in the draft. But even in a weak draft, I would look to pick up someone with more up-side. I
just can't see him being an All-star quality PG.
If the Jazz don't pick Jimmer and pick some no name big guy out of europe at
number 3 I will cease to be a Jazz fan. I will be a Jimmer fan wherever he goes.
The guy is an unselfish leader. Knowing what we know about John Stockten, how
high should John have gone in the draft. Fredette makes everyone around him
better. He is the leader this team needs who knows how to win and is unselfish
about it. Go Jimmer, make us proud! oh.... and GO COUGARS!
Jimmer is probably not a top 10 pick mainly because the teams who might take him
have better options. SAC will not likely take him as 7 is too high.
He is competing against very good role players. Further he is not likely to
replace Evans or Thornton. DET is going Euro big. CHA
might but they have Augustine. He could replace Henderson? MIL was snubbed. GS has a lot of options and they have Curry. He could replace Ellis if
he is traded? That leaves the Jazz. Jimmer is doing well in the
work outs BUT is that compelling to the teams ahead of the Jazz? Will CHA or GS
take him for SG? I think the Jazz have a reasonable chance of
getting Jimmer at 12. However, if Knight is taken at 3 Jimmer becomes a
replacement for Price/Watson and as a situation SG.Kanter/Jimmer is
a lot more risk than the Jazz are used to taking. It is more likely they go safe
at 3 with Knight and BPA at 12. Jimmer would be in the mix with Motie, Burks,
Thompson, Harris and maybe BB.The Jazz are going to get better.
Jimmer was the main threat for the Cougars. He set plenty of his teammates up
for an easy score and they missed time after time. Assists per game are based on
your mate scoring the ball. The only way to know how any of these guys (other
PGs) will compete is to draft them and let them work out with the new team. Good
luck Jimmer and drop a 52 on someone real soon. Jazz should take him if they
want me to attend their games.
Jimmers best chance of going in the top 10 is CHA at 9. However, he would have
to beat out Thompson and Burks to replace Henderson as a SG. Henderson is not
that good, especially at shooting 3s.GS at 11 is not giving Ellis
away. However, they could trade him if they get the right deal. Ellis is a
6'3" volume shooting guard. Jimmer could replace him. They are somewhat
similar. GS seems to be able to play with a short SG.
If you're the Jazz, you have to be biting your lip trying to contain your
enthusiasm that Fredette may be available at #12. "But the novelty
might soon wear off." Yea, right. Local talent or not, the Jazz would never
live down the criticism if they were to pass on Jimmer at #12 and he lives up to
his star potential, some say he is Stephen Curry or better, at worst he is JJ
Redick or Barea (he won't be either of those).If you are the Jazz, you
need to play it cool in order not to tip off other teams how high of a priority
you place on drafting Jimmer. Teams will de trading into the top 10 for a shot
at him if they think he will be there. He's the guy every team hpes slides down
to them , so the enthusiam around the NBA is muffled right now.The Jazz
are surely not dumb enough to pass on him at #12 but the odds are he will be
gone long before then, forget the biased opinions of those who still see him as
a short white guy who is a defensive liability.
I don't think you'll see teams draft Jimmer with the idea he will play the 2, he
may do some spot duty at the 2 but he will be drafted to be a point guard.I also think those who doubt Jimmer will be surprised, I'd like to have
someone give me evidence that Knight is better than Jimmer, Knight will be
drafted high on potential and yet Jimmer has potential too. Right now if you
look at who has better NBA skills, it's Jimmer, Jimmer is a better shooter, he
has better handles, he gets to the free throw line better, he's a better passer,
Knight has probably shown he is a little better defender but not that great,
Knight doesn't go left very well, he doesn't finish well after contact, Jimmer
does that better, just because Jimmer was a volume shooter for BYU doesn't mean
he can't play a differnt style, if asked Jimmer will be able to be a pass first
point. Knight has the same problem he has to adjust to, he is a shoot first
point. IhopeJimmer getstoplay againstboth Walker&Knight in aworkout in SLC.
Knight is a better defender and he has Rose speed. He has less experience so he
is assumed to have more potential. He actually made great progress over the year
at KY. Until I compared Jimmer to Ellis I did not think he could
play the SG. I am starting to rethink that now. If Ellis can play SG why can't
Jimmer. Crud DAL was playing Kidd at SG with Barea for a little while. Ellis is the same height as Jimmer. He gets 24 points a night with 45% FGs and
36% 3s. If Ellis can do it why can't Jimmer. Ellis can also play the PG when
needed. The Jazz CAN play Knight and Jimmer together just like GS
plays Curry and Ellis. Yes it would be ideal to have a 6'7" SG but the Jazz
have Hayward. A rotation of Hayward/Knight/Jimmer could be lethal.
It would be a vast improvement over CJ/Bell/Harris. The Jazz CAN
draft Knight/Jimmer BUT Jimmer may go to CHA. Burks and Thompson are helping
themselves. Burks can shoot and Thompson can defend better than thought. That might sent Jimmer to the Jazz.
See how Utah has been playing? Yep. Why would they take Jimmer?Jimmer is a winner.That is WHY Utah Jazz will not take Jimmer.
They are not winners. Nor will they be under current management.
I think another comparison would be Jason Terry, same size, good shooters, Terry
may be alittle quicker, but Jimmer has better handles, I think Jimmer could be
put in the position of a scorer off the bench or a scoring pt but I think he
wants to prove he can be a pass first pt that can be a leader and not just a
scorer. Kinda like Steve Young and how determined he was to show he was a
pocket passer and not just a scrambing QB that could throw alittle, he ended up
being the most accurate(percentage wise)passer (mostly from the pocket) in the
league. Jimmer has the ability to disapline himself and prove he can be a
quality pass first pt and a leader.
Jimmer continues to prove the naysayers wrong, cant say im the least bit
surprised, he has done it all throughout his life. He was overlooked by almost
every major college, infact Coach Rose was the only one that saw the talent that
he has and the type of player he is. The NBA will be no different, Jimmer will
continue to prove the naysayers wrong and whichever team drafts him will get a
great player and the steal of the draft imo. He just has the will, desire and
work ethic needed to succeed at the next level. I cannot wait to see him play in
the NBA and to continue to silence those foolish critics.
@ Bugoff,(12:44pm) I don't think Knight is safer because he's
slighter, and those types seem more prone to injury in the ruff-n-tuff NBA.
Jimmer doesn't seem prone to joint issues, and joints are what get injured the
most in the NBA.(1:26pm) Also, I'd give Jimmer no longer than two
years to start producing as effectively as D-Will did after 3. Jimmer's shown
he's a quick learner. He'd just need enough playing time to develop, ala
Matthews. It was Matthews' college career that enabled him to be ready to
develop quickly. Same goes for Jimmer.(2:31pm) If teams selecting
before 12 are working Jimmer out, but don't want him because they have needs in
other places, the Jazz just might have him available at 12. However, if they
pick Knight at 3 because Williams and Kanter are gone, and Vesely isn't a 3 in
their minds, I'd still pick Jimmer at 12, because they're short on guards that
can shoot effectively. Drafting Jimmer & Knight would surely negate needing
Price, and maybe Watson.
@ Bugoff,Interesting comparison with Ellis and Jimmer. You might
have let the cat out of the bag there. Heh.
I love all of these Jimmer skeptics. It's like the win at Utah wasn't even to
make them hide in shame. I think that Jimmer will be a lot better in the NBA
than people are willing to get him credit for. They just want something to
validate their shame in losing so horrendously to a guy who almost put 50 points
on them. F.Y.I. - I am sitting by my TV and just saw that they are doing a
replay of the Utah vs TCU game from this past football season. You know, the one
where Utah lost 47 - 7. Ha ha ha!
Jimmer will be the next Tim Hardaway. There games are so similar (maybe not the
killer crossover Hardaway has) but they play the exact same way. This draft is
getting close and I trust what KOC is doing, but if Jimmer is their at 12 and
they dont pick him up, I would hate to see him come into ESA and drop 30+ on us.
Why the Jazz should pick Jimmer at 3:1. Knight is unproven, and
slight ("injurability"). Might take years to produce. Jimmer's closer
(college growth) to producing sooner.2. Kanter is unproven---really
unproven. You shouldn't use 3rd picks on projects.3. Irving won't
come to Utah. To play or to test.4. Williams won't be available at
3. He's the only guy I'd halfway consider drafting before Jimmer.5.
Knight, Irving, and Walker don't want to try out against Jimmer---afraid he'd
show them up. He's even said he'd change his workout schedule to compete against
them.6. Jimmer's stock keeps rising with each workout, because he's
that good, and up close they're seeing it.7. The Jazz need a
shooting guard badly. Jimmer's unquestionably the best shooter in the draft.8. The Jazz could use Jimmer' shooting, even if they think he'll only be
a 1-2 backup.I know, good bigs are hard to come by, and the Jazz are
weak at SF, and maybe C/PF. However, this draft is slim pickin's on that.Get the best early producer!
@ WhatsInItForMe2. We got Favors on this team. 3rd pick with tons of
potential, but Favors ceiling is a lot higher than Kanters. 3. If
Williams is there at 3 the Jazz have to take him. Even before the local guy5. Them not wanting to workout against jimmer is a great move. You do
not want to damage your chance of going higher in the draft6. I dont
care if Jimmer goes before the 12th pick. As long as Jimmer is on a team where I
can see him play and flourish, I wont be mad. But if he is there at 12 and the
Jazz pass him up for somebody who doesnt have a specific skill set that
translates to the NBA right away then KOC needs his head examined
The simple fact is this: He was BYU's offense. Even though he was scoring 40% of
BYU's offensive output this year he still managed to average over 4 assists per
game. Not bad for the college level. He can make shots from 25-30 feet away. . .
guess what happens when you come out to play defense on him that far out? He
passes the ball or he drives. He required double and triple teaming this last
year, and he still was the collegiate scoring leader. Anyone that claims that
his game doesn't translate isn't speaking the NBA language. Haters hate, and
shooters shoot. Jimmer is a shooter. As we all witnessed this last year.
The Jazz are indicating there is NO need to trade the 3 pick. They are going to
wait until draft night and see if MN or CLE will work a trade with them. MN wants to trade down as they do not need Williams OR they may take
Kanter as a C dropping Williams to the Jazz. CLE wants Williams. The can trade
MN or trade Utah if MN does not take Williams. The Jazz could get the 4th and a
future pick for Williams.The Jazz then draft Knight or possibly
Vesley/Leonard. I think the highest Jimmer goes is CHA at 9. GS could trade
Ellis and take Jimmer at 11. The Jazz could trade CJ and the 12 for
the 9 if they really want Jimmer. CJ is better than Henderson (CHA current SG).
KOC can milk this draft. There are good players available at 3 and
12 even if they Jazz do not get Knight/Williams/Kanter at the 3 and Jimmer at
12. If Jimmer moves up Klay Thompson/Burks should be available at
12. BB dropping could change things. However, Motie should be in the mix around
12. He is NBA ready.
You know what is mind blowing to me that the haters out there see the number at
the combine hear the pro's talk and see Walker and Knight who is talked about
being so much better than Jimmer, they won't work out with him, why? they know
who is better and they are not going to hurt their draft statis and why would
@Buggoff, where did you get the info saying Knight had Rose quickness? For
starters the combine times prove he's not as quick as Jimmer or Walker. Also
don't believe the hype that Burks has suddenly become a good shooter, actual
game tapes show he's not and shooting touch doesn't suddenly appear in one off
Trade down...we need to make things done...i think jimmer is special...he is way
better than everyone expects...enough with the hate...everyone should give
credit to where credit is due...and we need him...we could trade devin
harris...since he is damaged commodity...if we could get the 6 and 18th from the
wizards...we could get Jimmer, Singleton and Jeremy Tyler...i think Jeremy Tyler
could be a dark horse in this draft...think about it...having a Lethal threat at
Point...and a savvy playmaking 6'9 SG in Hayward...we could trade Bell for Flynn
and a possible future first round pick...we could get the player option for
CJ...a lot of things could happen...but i sure wish we get jimmer...jimmer has
it...devin harris really doesnt...he made the all-star once..because it was a
fluke...i hope the Jazz brass...gets it...and gets it done...if not...we might
be saying..."I told you so" speeches for the next 15 years
The Kings also have the number 20 pick and would likely not draft Jimmer at 7
unless he starts to get rated that high. Right now he is rated number 13 in an
average of all of the reliable mock drafts for nba.com Bismack Biyombo (who
shot a miserable 12 for 35 within 10 feet of the basket and 14/20 free throws in
a workout recently) may be available at 12 or even Alec Burks; I want to see how
his workout goes this week before I am certain about Jimmer at number 12.
Reporters could be overhyping Jimmer hoping Utah will take him at 3 so that
Sacramento can have a player drop to them at 7.
hey, if terry can play in the NBA (an we know he plays no defense) and win a
world title, then Jimmer should do just fine.....know what I mean, Vern.....