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Gay, lesbian group lends support to lawsuit against Utah's illegal immigration enforcement law

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  • Teafortwo salt lake city, utah
    June 2, 2011 1:03 p.m.

    What a bunch of nonsense. LBGT folks have far more important things to worry about than immigration enforcement....

  • jasonlivy Orem, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:07 p.m.

    Yet another way for the gay/lesbian group to convince society that they are a 'race' and should enjoy the same 'rights' as an ethnic group. To me it's shameful and manipulative.

    I wouldn't be against their support if there were individuals in the G/L Club who felt strongly about the illegal immigration issues. However the fact that they, as a group, are involved simply because they feel they are in the same boat makes me sick to my stomach.

    Being gay/lesbian is not a race! It's a choice! That will never change.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:21 p.m.

    'I wouldn't be against their support if there were individuals in the G/L Club who felt strongly about the illegal immigration issues.' - jasonlivy | 1:07 p.m.

    Annnd what makes you think they do not?

    Are you claiming to speak for the LGBT community now?

    Speaking only for myself, it makes sense for minorities, ANY minorities to band together for common goals.

    Many choose to forget that Mormonism and the LDS church, are a minority in America. Just, not Utah.

    As for choice...

    *'Gay man says 'reversal' therapy did not change him' - By Lisa Leff - Associated Press - Published by DSNews - 01/20/10

    'SAN FRANCISCO A gay man testified Wednesday in a federal same-sex marriage trial that the "reversal therapy" he underwent as a teenager to change his sexual orientation drove him to the brink of suicide.

    *'Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy' - AP - 08/05/09

    'The American Psychological Association slams technique that seeks to change sexual orientation.
    'No solid evidence exists that such change is likely, says the report, and some research suggests that efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.'

    It is 'choice' to ignore data.

  • GiuseppeG Murray, Utah
    June 2, 2011 1:22 p.m.

    Uh, being an illegal immigrant is a choice, not a race as well. Let's make sure we're clear on that.

    And since when was harboring a criminal okay just because you love the criminal? That doesn't have anything to do with race, gender preference, whether they're your brother, mother, dog, or whatever. I believe it's still called aiding and abetting.

  • praxis Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:42 p.m.

    "...his partner of two years, who received training to become a doctor, overstayed his visa."

    The individual knowingly and willingly violated the terms of his visa. That is considered visa fraud and it's a felony. Sounds like this individual never intended to abide by his visa.

    This has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation and EVERYTHING to do with an individual that never intended to abide by the laws of the U.S.

  • DeltaFoxtrot West Valley, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:43 p.m.

    Just give it time. Now that the Supreme Court has given the OK the States will solve the immigration problem soon enough.

  • runwasatch Ogden, UT
    June 2, 2011 1:48 p.m.

    What too much of society wants is lawlessness based in the cause of "love of fellow man".

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 2, 2011 2:10 p.m.

    What a lame lawsuit. When it comes to enforcing immigration laws do the LBGT folks want a special pass that no one else deserves?

    Sheeesh!!

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    June 2, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    all the comments about "illegal immigrants" cracks me up. They are undocumented workers. Illegal means criminal, and these are not criminal acts. Get your facts straight.

  • goitalone w bountiful, ut
    June 2, 2011 2:35 p.m.

    Whatever gets publicity serves the LBGT agenda.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 2, 2011 2:56 p.m.

    Coming here illegally is a crime(civil and criminal-misdemeanor), coming here and working is a crime (multiple felonies). They, by lawful definition are illegal aliens.

    And the LBGT should be aware that it's against Federal law to house an illegal alien. Utah's law just mirrors Federal. When you marry someone in the country illegally, you put yourself in a very difficult situation legally.

    After the Supreme court ruling, the pro illegal folks are grabbing at straws.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    June 2, 2011 3:03 p.m.

    @ Giuseppe @ Praxis
    If you are straight and in love. You could marry your loved one. If your loved one is in the U.S.A. with a temporary visa, you could marry him/her and present a petition to Immigration and Naturalization to change the status of your beloved to a permanent residency (green card).
    If your beloved happens to be of your same sex, you cannot use your citizen privilege of helping him/her to extend or change visa status.
    The Gay community is only fighting for equality.

  • SummerlinUte LAS VEGAS, NV
    June 2, 2011 3:05 p.m.

    Same sex marriage or domestic partnerships are legal in many states. If a couple moves to Utah after having entered into a lawful marriage/partnership, Utah must accept it under the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution ("Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.") So like it or not, samesex couples have legal rights. In any event, I don't see how Utah can criminalize cohabitation with an undocumented alien spouse, straight or otherwise.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    June 2, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    Is this some kind of sick joke? I feel like I live in the twilight zone and things just keep getting more and more bizarre.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 2, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    @ SummerlinUte: "Same sex marriage or domestic partnerships are legal in many states. If a couple moves to Utah after having entered into a lawful marriage/partnership, Utah must accept it under the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. Constitution ("Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.")"

    Unfortunately, that is not true. The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) states, "Section 2. Powers reserved to the states
    No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship."

    Utah does not have to recognize same-sex unions.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 3:20 p.m.

    'And the LBGT should be aware that it's against Federal law to house an illegal alien. Utah's law just mirrors Federal.' - RichardB | 2:56 p.m. June 2, 2011

    About that....

    *'The list' came from Utah DWS database, investigators say' - By Lee Davidson and Laura Hancock - DSNews - 07/16/10

    *'Source claims state finds, but hides, immigrant ID theft' - By Lee Davidson - DSNews - 09/02/10

    *'Mormon church reiterates support for Utah immigration bills, including HB116' - By Elizabeth Stuart - DSNews - 04/20/11

    Action recently:

    *'Deportation of illegal immigrants increases under Obama administration' - By Peter Slevin - 07/26/10 - Washington Post

    And can someone explain the contradiction here.

    LGBT 'shouldn't' support immigration...
    but other people 'have every right' to support Prop 8?

  • md Smithfield, UT
    June 2, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    Utahs unconscionable new immigration law actually criminalizes sharing a home with an UNDOCUMENTED person, even if that person is a partner or spouse, said Victoria Neilson, the groups legal director. No one should be arrested for sharing their home with the person they love, but that is the very real possibility presented by this law."

    Undocumented really means ILLEGAL.

  • Laser Iowa City, IA
    June 2, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    I can't even keep up with the twisted logic of this group. Remember this is the group that preaches tolerance...unless of course practicing tolerance hurts their cause, then they send threats or vandalize property.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    '...unless of course practicing tolerance hurts their cause, then they send threats or vandalize property.' - Laser | 3:42 p.m. June 2, 2011

    Wow Laser.

    I don't know who your talking about. But I hope they don't ACTUALLY vandalize your property.

    *'Utah Pride Center vandalized' - By Andrew Adams - KSL - 08/20/10
    'SALT LAKE CITY -- Someone spray painted a slur on a sign outside Salt Lake City's gay pride center overnight.'

    While previously...

    *Charges filed against neighbors of gay man acquitted of kidnapping - By Linda Thomson DSNews 03/03/10
    Seven former neighbors were charged Tuesday with attacking David James "DJ" Bell and his partner, Dan Fair, in their home after a late night party on July 4, 2008.

    *Survey shows some LGBT residents dont feel safe By Rosemary Winters SL Tribune 07/12/10
    A gay man arrested for kidnapping after being severely beaten by his neighbors. A Salt Lake City bar fight where a same-sex couple was assaulted and called derogatory slurs. A kiss between two men on the LDS Churchs Main Street Plaza that resulted in trespassing charges.

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    June 2, 2011 4:09 p.m.

    Pagan,
    Exactly what does your post of 3:20 have to do with "Utah's law just mirrors Federal.' - RichardB | 2:56 p.m. June 2, 2011"?

    You site the "List" but that has nothing to do with the new law reflecting the Federal law. At the time of the list, there was no such law.

    Sometimes you are so confusing trying to understand your point. Please clarify.

    As for you Question about the LGBT shouldn't support immigration and people supporting prop 8:

    Well... What possible link does the LGBT have with Immigration? in the article they object to the fact that immigration law actually criminalizes sharing a home with an UNDOCUMENTED person, which is no different than a family member who hides a wanted felon from Law enforcement. So why aren't they upset about that?

    It's called aiding and abetting.. Both illegal. So for the LGBT to support this is a bit odd.

    As for Prop 8, people supported it because they felt that their diffinition of Marriage and what they deemed was an attack on the institution of Marriage. They had a valid link to the Marriage issue.

    LGBT has no such link to immigration.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    June 2, 2011 4:20 p.m.

    "No one should be arrested for sharing their home with the person they love"

    What if that someone is a rapist, pediphile, murder, etc.? It's called harbouring a criminal. Illegal is illegal. The problem with the ACLU, et al, is that they are so far left they will give a free pass to anyone but the law abiding citizen.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 4:23 p.m.

    'As for you Question about the LGBT shouldn't support immigration and people supporting prop 8:
    Well... What possible link does the LGBT have with Immigration?' - Confused | 4:09 p.m. June 2, 2011

    That's not a reply.

    It's another question.

    Hint: A 'fact', will normally have a date. Maybe even an name!

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    June 2, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Pagan,
    The question was directed to you because you are the one that seems to think they have some type of link to the "Immigration Law" issue.

    Prop 8 - Those that were for the Prop, had a direct link or concern for the issue because it affected them (Real or imagined)..

    LGBT has no such direct link to the Law.....

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 2, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    Re: charlie91342 | 2:23 p.m. June 2, 2011

    People who sneak into our country in the backs of trucks or under/over the fence violate our entry laws and hence they are here illegally. And no, they aren't illegal immigrants. They are illegal aliens.

    all the comments about "illegal immigrants" cracks me up. They are undocumented workers. Illegal means criminal, and these are not criminal acts. Get your facts straight.

  • praxis Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 6:00 p.m.

    @Baccus0902 | 3:03

    You seem to be under the false belief that just because a visa holder marries a U.S. citizen they are automatically granted residency. So, your effort to deflect from the main issue and make this about marriage equality doesn't work.

    The man knew full well the terms of his visa. He could easily have applied for residency and since he "received training to become a doctor" he would have had better than average odds of it being granted. But, he didn't.

    Instead, he willingly overstayed his visa and now he must pay the consequences. It comes down to U.S. law and personal responsibility.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    June 2, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    RE: Pagan

    Noe of what say or any headline you give changes the fact that it is a choice,

    Not any anecdote, no claims of failed change, not any poltically correct statements from questionable organizations,

    changes the fact it is a choice.

    a chosen behavior and lifestyle.

    Change may be very difficult to near impossible, but that does not make it any less a choice.

    and trying to ligitimize that choice via the immigration debate does not change it either.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    June 2, 2011 6:56 p.m.

    @Praxis
    As an immigrant myself, I'm quite aware of the requirements. I never said anything about automatically.
    My only point is that people in love who are straight can marry and resolve the visa situation, the speed of the process will vary from case to case. However, Gay people who are in love and facing a similar visa situation, they cannot use the same recourse.
    Gay citizens and straight citizen do not enjoy the same privileges in the United States of America. I'm not even passing judgment, I'm just stating a fact.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 2, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    So, the LGBT crowd is in favor of people disobeying the laws of this country?

    Do they favor ignoring people who harass LGBTs or attack them?

    You cannot be in favor of enforcing some laws and ignoring others.

    This just shows that their attraction to the liberal agenda is stronger than their principles.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 2, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    Many straight couples where one is here illegally are deported. The local media has covered a few of them in articles here.

    If Gay people cannot use the same recourse, it's because of Federal law, not state. It's the Federal government that holds the hearings and trials, Utah just turns them over.

    You have no complaint, if separated it's because of Federal not state courts. And Federal law makes it against the law to provide housing.

    Before supporting things, it pays to check them out, including Federal law, and who runs the deportation court system.

  • praxis Salt Lake City, UT
    June 2, 2011 8:11 p.m.

    @charlie91342 | 2:23

    I think you would be wise to "get *your* facts straight."

    Coming into the U.S. without proper clearance and documentation (read that **permission**) is a violation of U.S. CRIMINAL CODE: TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > ยง 1325 Improper entry by alien

    Civil Offense: Caught at the border while trying to enter the U.S. illegally

    Misdemeanor: Being in the U.S. illegally

    Misdemeanor Charges
    A misdemeanor is a CRIMINAL charge. Misdemeanor offenses are a lessor offense than a felony, but they are not without penalties, some of which can have very devastating effects on a person's life including the inability to obtain certain jobs, qualify for bonding, or receive governmental aid such as school loans.

    According to FBI statistics:
    1) 99% of long term "over-stayers" (people who enter on a visa and stay 3 or more months past their date to depart the country) never intended to leave on time. This is visa fraud and is a criminal offense.
    2) 99% of illegal aliens commit their first felony within 30 days of entering the country.

  • Rufio Saratoga, UT
    June 2, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    "I don't see how Utah can criminalize cohabitation with an undocumented alien spouse, straight or otherwise."

    Utah is not criminalizing anything regarding "cohabitation" in this Law.

    The criminal acts occur when the person knowingly crosses a border without authorization, stays in the country beyond the legally length, and then continues to commit criminal acts regarding false claims when applying for Driver's Licenses, submitting false tax identification numbers with employers, failure to pay legally required taxes, or file false tax returns - just to name a few. As with most breaches of moral or ethical behavior, it is not a solitary event. These are not just misdemeanors.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave, ...

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    June 3, 2011 6:44 a.m.

    Over 20 years ago Senator Alan Simpson said that the immigration debate brought about (quote) the goofiest ideological bedfellow activity I've ever seen.(end quote)
    This surely proves it.

  • jenrmc Fort Worth, TX
    June 3, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    IMO, the issue that the LGBT community is trying to highlight is that the couple who is being scrutinized in the article is unable to join themselves as a legal couple. As a result the ability to stay in the US based on marriage is no longer a valid point. Regardless of the fact that he overstayed his visa (illegal I recognize) the point that is trying to be made is that he will have to leave his partner if he can't find another legal reason to stay. This is not the case with a heterosexual couple. The heterosexual couple has the option of marrying and applying for citizenship as a result of that marriage. The lawsuit is an attempt at evening the playing field so to speak. This will open up the floodgates for other minority partnerships (polygamy, cohabitation, etc) to attempt to redefine the "marriage" requirement. Immigration law is in need of an overhaul and unfortunately there is no fair answer. The problem becomes how you decide the degree of fairness to attempt.

  • Trooper55 Williams, AZ
    June 3, 2011 10:22 a.m.

    I don't agree with this lawsuit. I believe that if you enter this country illegally and then get married, or live with someone who is here illegally, than you both have broken the law and should be held accountable. I don't feel one bit sorry for those people who get caught you both broke the law. If you come here on a Visa and it expires and you don't renew it before it lapes than you are here illegally and should face deportation and if a person aids you in staying here than you too have broke the law and should charge and face the music.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    June 3, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    I am white, LDS, a conservative and I do not support state-recognition of same-sex marriage. I am Utah born and love my state.

    Before I make my case- I am not saying 'kick them out' or 'let them stay' I am ONLY talking about maintaining moral integrity and dignity in our nation.

    They have committed a crime. All those who wish to arrest them ought to look in a mirror before casting their stones. I dar say, we must arrest those who went 2 miles over the speed limit. Arrest them all! - How logical is this mentality? "Criminal" is used to make one look evil to the sheep-like masses.

    Document them, vote on a solution - whatever, but saying 'we should arrest them all as they are criminals' willingly ignores something- broken laws do not always warrant imprisonment. - I welcome legitimacy and welcome ultra-tight security for illegitimacy. I do NOT welcome mistreating people and splitting families apart without first giving a chance to finding an alternative mutually beneficial solution. Disagree? Then cast your stones. But those who cannot forgive and are quick to judge- they will also be judged.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    June 3, 2011 2:46 p.m.

    We have not enforced the criminal part of illegal immigration for years. We don't fine them or imprison them unless they have committed other crimes. We have enforced the civil part of the law, which is deportation.

    We don't break up families, they are welcome to return home to their country of origin as a family unit.

    I'm sick of hearing how we should be compassionate, yet it's ok for them to break immigration laws, steal jobs, steal ID's and depress our wages. And business that hire them are far from compassionate towards their fellow citizens.

    When citizens break laws, we have to pay the appropriate fine, so should Foreign citizens. Let an American steal someones identity or use false id's, and we go to jail. A foreign citizen here illegally working gets caught, our government turns them loose to find a new ID or job.