game set match
Uh oh, that's gonna make some Cougar fans mad. An independent analysis that
ranks Utah better than BYU in both football and basketball since 98'. Ouch.
Get ready for the onslaught of excuses and reasons why this analysis is
worthless.On the positive side of this, it brings credibility to our
invitation to the PAC-12 and puts us at the same level with many of our future
conference opponents. It also puts BYU at that level. It's a shame they didn't
get invited as well. It would have made a great conference even better.
U of U top 20, not too shabby.
What does Rival's know? Just another liberal toady in the BCS's pocket. Their
writers probably went to Stanford and drive Volvo's.I bet ESPN will
exert their influence for their Marquee team by tommorrow morning and BYU will
be listed in the top 10 along with a printed retraction.
And yet those silly teams will go ahead and play the games anyway, just as if
all the pre-season speculation was meaningless....
Well considering utah has a final 4 appearance and two bcs bowls in that time
frame it certainly is no surprise. I do love how every comment by you ute
"fans" either mentioned BYU or made an inference to them. LOLAlso considering BYU hasn't been to either the final four or a bcs bowl and
are still only 6 behind utah it is a comment on BYU's consistency during that
THE SCORING SYSTEM FootballShare of national title: 10 points BCS championship game loser: 7 points Top-4 ranking: 5 points No.
5-8: 3 points No. 9-16: 2 points No. 17-25: 1 point Unranked
team with bowl bid: 0.5 points BasketballNational title: 10 points
Runner-up: 7 points Final Four: 5 points Elite Eight: 3 points
Sweet 16: 2 points Round of 32: 1 point Loss before round of
32: 0.5 points ===Based upon the selective critera, I would
say the rankings are fair.Like Ibleedcrimson said, you can find any
criteria to bring you to any finding you wanted.
Top 20 is about right. A testament to the program that Chris Hill has built.
Can't wait for football season!GO UTES!
Mad? Not sure why that would make anyone mad. Considering all the things Utah
has done since 98 (two BCS games and a final four in 98), ranked #20 sounds
"And yet those silly teams will go ahead and play the games anyway, just as
if all the pre-season speculation was meaningless...."That
wasn't preseason speculation. That was a rating of football and basketball
" I do love how every comment by you ute "fans" either mentioned
BYU or made an inference to them. LOL"If we're drawing
conclusions then I also find it interesting that 80% of your posts are on Utah
This was a silly article and litterally means nothing. However, for both
basketball and football in this time frame I would say that BYU has enjoyed more
consistancy and the Utes have reached higher peaks.
I'll always hope BYU does better in everything but give credit where it's due.
The Utes have accomplished a lot in both sports during the past decade. The
bball program will eventually bounce back and despite my fellow cougar fans
saying so, the football program won't be a Pac12 bottom feeder.It a
good reflection on the state having two teams in those standings.Go
@ibleedcrimsonI love how I am such a point of focus for you in
particular. And I post in the articles that interest me. One thing
you probably don't realize is that I seldom compare BYU to utah, I seldom make
negative comments about utahs actual athletic programs either. I reserve the
vast majority of my comments for insecrue utah "fans" like yourself,
pebbles, etc. and also for the utah trolls like wedgie and christina b that post
mostly on BYU articles.If it makes you feel better I think utah has
done a great job with its football program the last 7-8 years. i think utah got
a great deal by being invited to the pac10. I think the pac20 tv deal is a great
one and I have posted all of those things before. But of course the
whiners like pebbles, or the lacking in self esteem posters like yourself don't
pay attention to any of that. You focus on me making fun of your
20/26 for Utah/BYU sounds about right for the last dozen years.It would be
nice to know the same comparison for the last 1/2 dozen years also --- to see if
there is a trend towards either team now. One of you BYU fans please do this!
(I'm guessing BYU fares better.)
Duckhunter,We all mentioned BYU, because the article did. Wow,
"And I post in the articles that interest me."Well then
it's obvious every Utah article and anything Utah interests you and most
subjects about BYU don't.
Duckhunter,I have to correct you when you say "...I seldom make
negative commets about utahs actual athletic programs..." You have very
consistently bashed our basketball program, baseball, softball, volleyball,
women's basketball, women's soccer and our rugby team. You definitely have made
negative statements about all of those programs and have participated in
discounting the accomplishments of our football team. You have also engaged in
comparing what BYU's football team has accomplished with what Utah's team has
accomplished. You seem to have a selective memory with regards to your own
@DutchYou may be right based on the last 6 years because BYU has
been in the NCAA basketball tournament several times during that time and utah
only has once I think. But in reality it just shows they are really close
together at this time. I think gonefishn had it right when he said utah's had
the higher peaks and BYU has had more consistency. Either way it has been a
pretty good last decade around here for college sports.
This isn't news, we all know who is superior
No news here, just statement of the obvious. Frankly, it shouldn't be close
during the BCS era. In football, Utah to the BCS=2, BYU=0. In basketball, the
Utes have gone to the sweet 16 multiple times and BYU has gone once.
Utah ranks 5th in a study done by the Bookings Institute...They rank
1st. in left handed players.They rank 9th. in number of knee braces.They rank 6th. in how many had chicken pox as a child.They rank 4th. in
players with full dentures.And finally they rank 3rd. in best use of
shoe inserts.There is only one truth in statistics...they can make
anything sound good can make any lie a truth.Probably the most
important thing is which direction is each program headed...now that is game,
BYU would be a spot or two higher if it had not been for the Crowton years. Utah
would have been a spot or two highher if it weren't for the last two Bball
coaches. The last 5 years would have them close to even. The past 20 years would
have them closer to even because of BYU's Football success and Utahs Bball
success. Two good programs headed up via different paths.
Mad? Not at all! The BCS era is a valid place to draw the line - but not the
only place. It WOULD be interesting to see the overall and head to head
rankings for the last five years. It would also be interesting to draw the line,
oh, say at the start of the 1984 football season. But of course,
that doesn't favor Utah, so therefore is no longer relevant. And five years is
too short of a time frame to be significant. Doesn't make me mad at all. I am most interested in the era that is about to begin. We can look at
this again next March.
Veracity "Probably the most important thing is which direction is each
program headed...now that is game, set, match." True but there is no need
to rub it in Y fan's faces that Utah is now in money laden Major AQ Conference
and BYU is not; that's kind of rude.
Since '98? This sounds pretty accurate to me. Utah has stepped up in that time
period. They deserve the recognition. They have my respect.
Well if BYU is ranked 26 in that period, it only proves one thing and that is
that they can compete against the BCS schools. There are six BCS conferences
therefore, if you divide 26 by 6 you get 4.3 which means shows that BYU would
finish in the top half of the average BCS conference. Therefore, there must be
something else keeping them out. It certainly isn't their sport programs.
To Mesa Coug: WOW, you needed to "do the math" to figure that one out?
Rock Of The Marne,Thank you, you proved my point with the twisting
of my comments to benieft you...thanks again...I could not have done it
better.Utah is dollar rich and program poor...but then again riding
on the coat tails of others is nothing new.It is too bad Utah can
not bring something to the table to be worthy of such indulgence.Oh
"Therefore, there must be something else keeping them out. It certainly
isn't their sport programs."I couldn't agree more. If it were
based entirely on sports, BYU would probably be in the top 10 (I'm consider
Rugby and Volleyball in there), especially if we were able to remove the results
from the Crowton years and replace them with results that are more in line with
our historical ones. No one else has Jimmer on their team last year, for
example (NPOTY).This ranking sort of goes along with the poor
refereeing we saw from so many of the BB games last year, even in the MC. I
think the NCAA was trying to hold us back. Luckily, we had so much talent that
we were able to secure a sweet 16 finish and should have gone further.As an Independent we will show that we have what it takes to bypass the
accepted way of getting to the big games and play in Jan.
Mesa Coug,"Therefore, there must be something else keeping them
out. It certainly isn't their sport programs."You are
absolutely right. BYU has a great sports program. If they had a big medical
center, a Nobel Prize winner and no honor code (Utah does have a code of conduct
which is different) they would probably be in hands down. No offense intended.
Just the way it is.Duckhunter,The name is Dutchman, not
Ductman. Please honor that. LOL
@ Veracity,Can you tell me what makes Utah "program poor".
It certainly can't be the head to head matchup with byu, seeing as
how Utah dominates in the overall record in that matchup and owns scoreboard
last year. It can't be Utah's invitation the PAC 12 - a major upgrade
from the Mountain West. It can't be Utah's two recent undefeated seasons
in 04 and 08 and BCS bowl wins. So please tell me what makes Utah a
I think many are missing the point.Two of the Top-26 athletic
programs in the country are located here in Northern Utah.One is
headed to the PAC-12.The other headed to independent.It's a pretty sweet position to be in, don't ya think?
@ Hondo 2:01pm - Yes, BYU was cheated all year long in every sport/every year
and they still managed to rise and shout. Go ahead and consider volleyball,
rugby, tennis, track, golf, baseball, etc etc etc. Cougs are the best.
@KHUtah isn't nationally relevant like BYU is (no NC, Heisman
winner, Doak Walker Award winner, Outland Trophy winner, Jimmer, Matt Montague,
etc). I can't prove how many fans we have but we fill stadiums and arenas all
over the U.S.
No 1984. I did the math for the benefit of the trolls that would still say that
BYU can't compete with the AQ conferences. As you can see, I did not say that
the u does not belong. Both of them deserve the opportunities based upon their
histories not just the one that happens to be part of the right conference. If
BYU can't compete, there should only be 25 teams that are part of the AQ
" Yes, BYU was cheated all year long in every sport/every year and they
still managed to rise and shout."What makes you think the kewgs
won't continue to be "cheated" as an independent.Do you
think you'll get different treatment?
Pretty impressive considering the fact that the year before, Utah was the runner
up in basketball. DuckThose six points equate to (3)
sweet sixteens or a point shy of a runner up. Not even close if you think about
KHUtah's football program is a top tier MWC team but will only be an
also-ran in the PAC 12. This means middle-of-the road towards to bottom of the
PAC 12.Basketball would have a difficult time in Region 4 and will
die a long death in the PAC 12.Look, nothing would make me happier
than to see Utah win the PAC 12 in each program, but as my name states Veracity,
I am committed to tell the truth.Utah is along for the
There is book I had in college, "How to lie with statistics" Remember
according to statistics a bumble bee can't fly.
Utah in the top 20? Just goes to show you that the media will tell a lie, even
if the truth sounds better.
Utes will being crying when they can't compete next year and all will hear about
is oh ya cougar fan at least we are in the Pac 10+2. Mark it down!Ductman that's funny.lol, I mean Dutchman.
Hondo, Yes BYU does have a great fan base anywhere you go and thats mainly cause
you have LDS folks anywhere you go. I happened to be in Los Angeles one year
when BYU played UCLA and we wanted tickets. Guess where we got them? One of the
ward members had a bunch and we went. We took some Jello too!
KHI believe program poor would mean facilities. Take a walk around
BYU and look at the facilities and it is very apparent that Utah is light years
behind the Y in facilities.There is also talk of upgrading and
expanding LES in the near future.
To hedgehog @ 2:33 pm - my comment was meant to be "tounge in cheek"
to show Hondo how ridiculous the statement is that the NCAA was trying to
"hold them back." Don't think the refs were heaving up 40 foot threes
and drawing nothing but air.
cougars1- Ya'll ain't got room for all the primary kids that want to come sing
children's songs at the football games?
@ Veracity,If you think Utah is going to tank in football in the PAC
12, then where do you think byu would be in the PAC 12 if they were invited?
Below Utah, that's where they would be. By bashing Utah you are bashing byu.
@ Cougars1,Wow, byu has nice facilities. Great job.
That obviously has done wonders for your football team. 17-16 pal. If I were
you I wouldn't care about how nice your facilities are unless you're winning
games. byu went 7-6 last year and have no BCS bowls. By the way,
Utah will catch up in facilities real quick with the lucrative tv deal from the
PAC 12. Then what are you going to say?
This cougar fan finds this article to be spot on. Just chill Mormon Ute. No
fluff, no spin, no nothing. It is cold hard facts over the last 10 years. BYU
had three losing football seasons in that time and another year without a bowl
invite, so I don't find any shame in being ranked 26 nor being 6 spots below the
U. If the stated points system is accurate, the 7 points for the
Basketball runner up will be falling off the rankings soon, so hopefully the U
can pick up those points elsewhere.Mormon Ute-you state that this
will bring credibility to the PAC-10 invite. No offense, but that shows a tiny
bit of an inferiority complex. That somehow you doubt the validity of the
invite. Just saying--have some confidence. The U deserved the PAC-10 invite
and U will do well in FB and survive in BB. Like my former coach used to say
'when you get to the end zone, act like you have been there and that you will be
back.' THanks for the kind words about the Cougs in that same post.
I sure wish that BYU was as good as the Utes.
There are those among us that think that $ will solve the Utes problems.
However, one need look no further than Wash St. or Iowa St. or most teams from
the Big East (football) to conclude that $ alone won't be a difference maker.BUT when you combine increased $ PLUS the proven track record of Whit
and company, Utah's future is bright! The Utes own the series record with the
Cougars, even with "inferior" facilities." Imagine what they
will do when they inject some of this $ into facilities and they have equivalent
or better facilities!
DuckhunterrKazamm...your wish came true.
KHWhen you do get those great facalities, what will be your excuse
then when it still doesn't work?
"if we were able to remove the results from the Crowton years and replace
them with results that are more in line with our historical ones"Sure why not, most BYU fans remove the first 70 years or so of head to head
competition between the schools as it is now anyway... You have
plenty of precendence!
@mormon uteUh fail. Pointing out the current state of a program is
not bashing it. I have made alot of fun of utahs basketball program, mostly
because oversensitive pansies like yourself get in a huff about it, but I have
never "bashed" utahs baseball, volleyball, rugby, womens basketball,
softball and womens soccer teams. I never even read articles about any of them
except maybe the baseball team and I've never bashed them.You see
you simply think I bash the school and its programs when in fact I spend my time
bashing the classless lowlifes it has for fans. There is a real difference
there. I never said I never do it, I said I seldom do it and that is a fact.
When I do it I do it purely because it makes ute "fans" like yourself
all but bawl.Maybe you should ratchet up your reading comprehension
and then come on back.
Thats just the thing veracity, we aren't as good as the Utes. We lag behind.
Seriously. It hurts bad, and I know it hurts you too brother. I mean really,
we have a once in a generation basketball player and we only make the sweet 16?
A mere dozen years ago, thats when Utah's season began! We lag behind! We will
never get to where Utah is and has been. And I hate it, but its the cold hard
KHRelax. I wasn't trying to take away from Utah's success. Just
stating the facts. You sound a little childish when you start spouting things
like "That obviously has done wonders for your football team.". Yes
they have. Look at the top 25 finishes, NC, Heisman, etc. Utah will
catch up, but it won't be fast. What you don't understand is all the BYU fans
with deep pockets who are willing to pay for whatever BYU needs. Legacy Hall was
started because of a $50mil donation from a fan in Arizona. When BYU needs
facilities, they put the word out and Cougar Club members show up with their
wallets.Utah will do fine in improving facilities, but you need to
remember they are 25 years behind.
@Duckhunter (3:21 PM post)There is a difference between making
salient points, providing observations or taking playful shots at the other
school, but you've crossed the line of deceny and represented yourself and the
school you cheer for, poorly. Oops.Keep it classy, my man.
@ VeracityWhat do you mean "when it still doesn't
work"?It has "worked" just fine. 13-0 in 2004, 13-0
in 2008, top 4 in the nation both years. Even last year in what many considered
a down year for Utah, Utah still beat byu and still went 10-3, which is about
the ceiling for byu. (10-3 or 11-2 seasons)I think it has worked
quite well and will continue to improve with more $ and better facilities. How can you argue against that?
As per Ducky "You see you simply think I bash the school and its programs
when in fact I spend my time bashing the classless lowlifes it has for
fans." This from guy who is on any and every Utah story looking to stir
things up. You can tell he is sensitive little fellow who's meaning in life
centers around being able to leave his half cent in with regards to the Utes.
Then when called out he claims he isn't such a troll though his words defy him.
Ducky, you are basically a joke to us Ute fans; always good for a laugh or an
"There is also talk of upgrading and expanding LES in the near
future."Best of luck with that and I mean it. I was an aide to
Provo Mayor Jim Ferguson the last time LES was expanded. BYU wanted to deck it
on both sides then but the neighborhoods around LES objected because it would
permanently place those homes in the shade all year around. Mayor Ferguson
sided with the neighbors and the end zones were built instead. All heck broke
loose. Hate mail arrived from all over the country from the "loving"
BYU fans in every state that make up that "national" fan base. Well,
those neighborhoods are still there and I don't believe the people want to live
without sun light. BYU must get a building permit from Provo City to build
anything unlike the U which as a State Agency does not need to get a local
building permit.Facilities? Utah AD Chris Hill has stated many
times that the facilities are not that far behind. He keeps mentioning a
softball stadium for the women and basketball training center as priorities. If
that is it that is not bad. Tell me what is so dire.
Utah has had a good run in football. Important to remember BYU had 3 seasons
that were their worst in 30 years for football. 26th is nothing to sneeze at.
Can't wait for next season.
Hey guys, why don't you back off Duckhunter or back up your claims. There are
some articles on here with a lot of his comments. It can't be that hard to find
a classless comment by him if what you say is true.
@pebblesAll I read there was "whine, whiney, whine, whimper,
DutchmanWeak sauce. Bring up a reason that's not 30 years old.
Besides, they are talking about filling in the four gaps in the endzone corners
and upgrades. Yes Utah is far behind. Have you even seen both
facilities. For example, you can't even practice field goals or punts inside of
Utah's indoor facility without bouncing footballs off the rafters. That is just
one of many. As I said, Utah will get there; especially with the
money they will get, but you have to remember that as they upgrade, so will the
@devlishuteI'm sure you feel that way about wedgie, christina b,
howie, etc. as well.Of course you don't. You see most people have
selective outrage and you are one of those people. When it is your school,
fanbase, team, getting put down you are offended and put out. When it is your
rivals it is all in good fun or else deserved because you don't like them
anyway.I understand this dynamic which is why I never take any of
this stuff personally. But for the oversensitive utah "fan" like
yourself, or pebbles, it is a personal insult so deep that it ruins your
@ Duckhunter - I would submit that both sides have their share of
"classless lowlifes it has for fans". Your way out of line on that
my last posts indicate that i have nothing else to say. my desperation has
reached an all time high and i dont want to appear any more foolish. please be
nice to me.
@Cougars1My previous comment was specifically about his post to
Mormon Ute @3:21 PM. Why would he write all the rude things about him on a
board regarding sports? It makes no sense and has no point. Anyway....Duckhunter = classy
By the way Dutchman, you need to go back to work in the Mayor' office if you
don't think the U of U needs a building permit. DFCM(Division of Facilities and
Construction Management) does all supervision for State building projects, and
when they did the student housing for the Olympic Village, there were copies of
the building permits on site.
"they are talking about filling in the four gaps in the endzone
corners".Wow. That will certainly add some prime seating.
Seems hardly worth the money that will be spent just to fill in the four gaps by
the endzones. So, what happened 30 years ago is still relevant according to
your comment because BYU still can't go higher with decks because of the nearby
neighborhoods.So, Utah is always playing catch up in terms of
facilities. Let's look at some timing:Utah builds Einar Neilson
Fieldhouse BYU follows with the Smith FieldhouseUtah builds the Special
Events Center BYU follows with the Marriott CenterUtah builds an indoor
practice facility BYU follows with an indoor practice facility that you can punt
in, Wow.Utah joins with Salt Lake City in building a AAA ball park BYU
follows with money from Larry Miller to build a nice baseball facility.I could go on and on but you get the drift.
DevilishUte- Point taken. Duckhunter=classy? More like Duckhunter=A thorn to
Duckhunter,Still avoiding the truth to save face? In direct
responses to some of my comments you have taken the opportunity to point out
that in your opinion the sports I mentioned have done nothing at the U. You
might recall in response to your comments I posted a listed of titles, national
tournament appearances and other accomplishments as well as current records from
those programs. Even after that you proceeded to put down those other sports
and claim BYU superiority in each of them. You're losing credibility here.
AZguy,I do have plenty of confidence in our athletic programs to do
well in the PAC-12, but there are plenty who don't believe that and some of them
are regular contributors to the comments here. That's where that comment comes
from, no inferiority complex for me.
Mormon Ute,I haven't a shred of credibility. I sleep with a
nightlight to avoid getting bad dreams for crying out loud!
First it's great that two Utah programs rank so high in a national round up like
this. And given the parameters of the survey, the ranking seems to be about
right.However, we all know that statistics can be altered to say
just about anything we want them to. For example, if the study would have
focused on a five year time frame, BYU would have been ahead of Utah with a
slight lead in football and a huge lead in basketball.If the study
focused on a 30 year period, BYU would have a huge lead in football and Utah
would have a lead in basketball with the total points going to BYUs favor.If the round up would have focused on all sports, BYU would have a huge
advantage over Utah with any time frame in the last 30 years.Bottom
line: both programs are in a much better place and will get more national
exposure going forward than they would have gotten in the MWC.
Mormon UteI will back you up as far as having confidence in Utah's
athletic programs. You are one of a few Utah fans on these boards who is
actually reasonable. I'm sure AZguy was just taking an easy shot at you. I think
I have even taken a shot or two at you in good fun.
People are citing "head to head" record back to the beginning of time.
Really? I hope they remember that the next time the say 1984 doesn't count but
1944 does. While we are citing history, kh, last year was
considered a "down year" for the Utes? By whom? They returned their
QB and a gajillion other starters. The "down year" was BYU's, who
returned very few, including at QB. The score was the score, the Utes won, but
claiming down year -- true Utes are rolling their eyes at you, girl!BTW, it was Utes #4 in 2004, #5 in 2008. If you are going to cite it, know
it.Phenomenal for two teams in the mountains, really. Chris Hill
better be making a grundle.
Congrats to both teams for their high rankings. Not bad for a couple of teams
from a non-BCS league. Here's hoping that Utah can keep it up in the PAC 12 and
that BYU can as an Independent. I think it would be difficult for anyone to say
that either program is not deserving of being in a BCS league.
@mormon uteDisagreeing with you that the baseball team being in 2nd
place in the mwc is some stellar accomplishment is hardly bashing them. Once
again you are oversensitive to any comment about utah that isn't effusive
praise.But even so I would love to see some of the quotes I made
"bashing" those sports. I admit I have "bashed" the
basketball program but the truth is it is terrible so there isn't much positive
to say there.I also believe utah will be a mediocre pac10 athletic
program. That isn't "bashing" them I just don't think they will
compete all that well in very many sports. The pac10 is noted for the olympic
sports and utah is not all that great in any of them, outside of gymnastics, in
the mwc so why would I think they are going to take the pac10 by storm?I think utah will have occasional success in football, meaning once every 4-5
years they will get 9-10 wins, but will not be a dominant program. I don't know
if mens basketball is every going to comeback.So is that bashing or
just an opinion you dislike?
Who really cares which team makes it higher on somebody's contrived scale? Let's just play the game!
Rivals.com did not include Utah's Final Four year unless the dates in the
article are fouled up. This analysis only goes back to the 98-99 academic year,
which started the fall after the Final Four appearance. Including that
incredible run would cause Utah to jump up in these rankings.
@chubbymagooAnd going back 2 more years to BYU's top 5 ranked
Cottonbowl winning football team would jump them up the rankings also. I suppose
they had to cut it off someplace.
I went to both the Y and the U - so I could care less if either is ranked above
the other. I do love the rivalry though.That said, what a bogus
piece. Some arbitrary measures made up by people with way too much time on
their hands. Without a playoff system, the football side is a
popularity contest, As it is such, why not then weigh in how many people viewed
their games, or attended. How about donations or revenue brought in. Since we
don't have a competitive playoff systems, how good a Boise would stack up agains
an Ohio may never really know.
WOW! They must have not followed the ute basketball program too closely the last
several years. Thankfully for the utes sake, the utes gymnastics team stepped up
and covered the spread for the basketball shortcomings.
Yeah, poor BYU, just hanging on to the coat tails of the Utes. I was
in the Marriot Center this past Sunday and noticed the brass plaque there. I was
curious as to how old this dilapidated, hardly used, insignificant, structure
was. Dedicated 40 yrs ago this year.Holds 22,700, more than the
majority of other Div. 1 facilities and more than the piddly 15,000 little
brother facility called the Huntsman Center.Stadium, same story.Does anyone really remember the U in anything other than gymnastics? Sure they do! National TV embarrasments against TCU, ND, and BSU...
last year!Enjoy your skewed and stewed #20 silly ranking. Enjoy this
pinnacle of success. Does get much better than this? If BYU, a
little insignificant religious school, is only 6 behind you, you don't have much
to toot your horn about. I thought 'Big Boy' schools were really supposed to be
BIG? U ain't!BYU has beaten you guys several times so
don't think for a moment that this silly article means a thing.BYU
is taking the road less travelled... something U can never do.BYU
#26 and still more relevant.Boohoo to U.
I think for a snapshot, 12 year analysis, this is fair. However, we all know
that "Legacy Programs" are built over "Generations", not
Snapshots in time.Utah wins this little exercise on two main
criteria. 1-Two BCS Bowls and2-Three sweet sixteen's,
including a finals NCAA game.Question: Will Utah ever see either
again? Answer....NOAdditionally, BYU had to factor in the Crowton
years.. Question: Will BYU ever see those Crowton type years, again?
Answer....NO.Therefore, for BYU to be within 6 points of Utah when
all things are considered, not too bad.Now, to present tense and
Reality....Utah had (past tense) a nice decade, nobody denies this.
However, this is their maximum ceiling, never to be matched again. It's all
downhill from here for the Utes. We know it and deep down, they do as well.BYU however, will just plug along, building on it's already Secure
Legacy and Brand. One which took decades to establish. Wannabees think it can be
done in merely one, not so.Utah's future? A place in the Land of
Obscurity in the Household of Wazzu.BYU's future? Exposure with an
Since the final four appearance is at the beginning of the time period, doing
the same analysis after next year probably has both schools approximately tied
which is fitting since that's when rivalries are best right?
@atl134It is very close, especially over the last decade.
sammyg | 8:14 p.m. ===We are all aware of how Utah has fared
against BYU recently, especially in basketball.Thaere is that tiny
fact that Utah has BCS wins, and rivals doesn't count the NC. They don't count
the recent head to head.I would call the Y and the U pretty close
right now, and the fact that here, in Utah, we have two of the top 26 athletic
programs in the nation fighting it out gives us some pretty great weekends.Now, the "game, set match" by ChrissyB was stupid after
watching the basketball season, but in reality, BYU controls their own destiny.
The U could do well in the PAC. The BCS could be "blowed up" in 5
years, and both schools could be sitting pretty.I don't think this
is the time to cross the finish line and declare a winner by any means.
(ie--game,set,match).Rather, this is a starting point, and I expect
in ten years to see both teams in the top 15.Imagine that, here in
Northen Utah, two premiere college programs.Now if we could class up
some of the arrogant Ute/BYU fans...
Cougars1,There are many different types of building permits. The
ones you saw for the housing at the U were probably for plumbing or electricity
etc. The U is not required to get a building permit from Salt Lake City to
conform to zoning or other site specific requirements because state agencies are
not under local control. BYU must get those types of building permits from
Provo City.Tonight I took in a Bees baseball game at Spring Mobile
ball park. The front entrance is marked with two large signs that read
"Home of U of U Baseball". What a great facility. Salt Lake City is
in partnership with the U and the Bees to manage and operate this great ball
park. I find it funny that another poster would knock the U's
indoor practice facility because a punted football can hit the rafters. NFL
punters have hit the video boards in Jerry Jones new indoor stadium in Dallas
Texas. I guess Jerry should just keep the roof open.
DutchThe city of Salt Lake requires the State of Utah to purchase
building permits...It's the law and I will not argue over something so
foolish.Borrowing a baseball park from the Bees just proves my
point.Are you really going to compare Jerry World, where the Super
Bowl was played to the U's indoor facility?I was not trying to
insult you with my interpretation of "program poor". I was simply
stating the facts. You need to visit the facilities of both programs and you
would see that the Y is way ahead of where Utah is; plain and simple. Both
schools will continue to update. Utah will have more money for updates. Good for
Utah, they need it.
Check out rivals for the high school players. You pay big bucks to attend their
little camps,buy your kid some kind of Rivals 100 or whatever. They are in it
for their own purpose and the money. I really don't take what they say with a
lot of value. The time span used for this "ranking" is so
arbitrary and like the statistics, you can make it be what you want. I know what
I want and now I need to make the figures work. Sound familar.We
only seem to acknowledge the polls etc that support our position and ignore the
rest. This is the exact reason that the BCS will be coming down, sooner than
DutchmanSpin if it makes you feel better, but even Chris Hill has
said that many of Utah's athletic facilities are sub-par will be grossly
outclassed in the PAC 12. The only reason the Utes rent Spring Mobile for
baseball is because they can't afford a baseball park of their own. Do you
really think recruits are going to be impressed with rented space four miles
"So, Utah is always playing catch up in terms of facilities. Let's look at
some timing:Utah builds Einar Neilson Fieldhouse BYU follows with the
Smith FieldhouseUtah builds the Special Events Center BYU follows with the
Marriott CenterUtah builds an indoor practice facility BYU follows with an
indoor practice facility that you can punt in, Wow.Utah joins with Salt
Lake City in building a AAA ball park BYU follows with money from Larry Miller
to build a nice baseball facility."DutchStating that
Utah's facilities are older that BYU's does not help make your point. Smith
Fieldhouse? That WAS where the coaches offices were. They now have Legacy Hall.
Have you even been to BYU and seen the facilities that have been built in recent
years? BYU is light years ahead of Utah. It's not meant to be an insult. Adding 20,000 seats to LES, and upgrading the rest of the stadium is
well worth the money that will be spent. They are also talking about adding
luxury boxes on the East side.
Sammy G and Bluto,Those are some big words for a fan of a team that
went 7-6 last year. The majority of byu fans I know talk like they are the best
team in the nation every year and when they fall short all they say is
"wait til next year". You guys are no different. Your
predictions of the fall of Utah and the rise of byu are purely opinion. Bluto, "Utah wins this little exercise on two main criteria. 1-Two BCS Bowls and2-Three sweet sixteen's, including a finals NCAA
game.Question: Will Utah ever see either again? Answer....NO"How do you know Utah will never be able to do that again? Answer...You
don't."Additionally, BYU had to factor in the Crowton years..
Question: Will BYU ever see those Crowton type years, again?
Answer....NO"byu just had a "crowton type year" last
year. It very well may happen again. My point is that you don't know what
the future holds for either team. You are blind by your hate for Utah.
Cougars1,I won't reveal where I currently work but I have worked in
government for the past 31 years and I can tell you that at no time does the U
have to come to the Salt Lake City Planning Commission to get a permit to build
anything on State property. None. The U may get permits for plumbing,
electrical etc once the project is started but they need no permission from the
City to construct a project. Westminster College located not too far from the U
must come to the Planning Commission for approvals because they are a private
school on private property like BYU.Many schools, including USC and
UCLA, work jointly with other entities for their facilities. Why have
duplication if the facility can be jointly used? Aren't you a believer in
efficiency? Salt Lake City and the U's joint use of the ball park makes
complete sense and it is the finest park any university team has in this State.
When the U gets mens soccer going the same will happen with Rio Tinto stadium.
I was pointing out that the U has led BYU on many fronts facility wise in
Phoenix,You are misquoting Chris Hill. He has never used the term
"grossly outclassed" when comparing facilities. His top priority
right now is to get the women a softball stadium, put in some outdoor tennis
courts and build a new training center next to the Huntsman Center for
basketball. That does not sound like things are in dire straights to me. Most
universities are trying to build separate training facilities for basketball
even in the PAC 12. A BYU friend of mine who lived in Tucson for seven years
and has been to the McKale Center there many times and visited every PAC 10
basketball facility tells me that the U's Huntsman Center is the finest except
for Oregon's brand new facility.The U just opened a brand new state
of the art track facility last August. A new student center for athletes was
built about six years ago. The swimming and diving complex was completely
renovated about 12 years ago. A gymnastics training center was built about 8
years ago. The U is more than just "renting" Spring Mobile ball park.
They are assisting in retiring the revenue bonds that the City put in place.
Duckhunter,In my book that's bashing. Especially with respect to
the olympic sports. I'm not going to repeat it, but I already pointed out to
you how well our teams have done historically and recently in all of those
sports. You simply discounted my statements with your refrain about the MWC not
being a good comparison to the PAC-12. That may be the case, but our teams have
also done well in NCAA tournaments and against non-conference competition. So
when you express an opinion that is overly negative and ignores the facts, yes,
that is bashing. Claiming our basketball team will never make it back to
promininence is also bashing, because you can't know that. We have a new
coaching staff and have proven in the past our ability to compete at the highest
levels with the right coaches in place. So your opinion is not based on
historical statistics or any fact. It is a negative opinion based on your
dislike of the Utes and therefore is bashing.
sammyg,Forget about using the size of the Marriott Center for
bragging rights. We all know the only reason it was built that big was for the
weekly devotionals and graduations. As for remembering the Utes, let's see
nearly every media outlet in the country is talking about the new configuration
of the PAC-12 starting this July and the Utes are part of that analysis. ESPN
has run several features touching on how the Utes will do in the PAC-12 and
their analysts have us finishing around 8-4 or 9-3 in football. So I for one am
not worried about being forgotten.
Cougars1,I would think BYU would be interested in filling LES a few
more times each season before springing for an expensive expansion. BYU does a
respectable job with attendance, but percentage wise you've got some seats to
fill. I'm not saying it won't happen one day, but with your home schedule next
season I'd be surprised if that attendance percentage doesn't drop some. Maybe
in a few years when you have time to get some better teams on your home schedule
you'll see the attendance results you'll need to justify the expansion.
RE: KG"byu just had a "crowton type year" last
year."No they didn't. True, they were 7-6 which is a down
year. True they dropped games to USU and the U. It wasn't a pretty year...
However, "Crowton" years were marked by scandal, mediocrity, and some
despair. Last year wasn't like that at all. As a Cougarfan I LOVED being a fan
last year. The team made amazing progress throughout the season and considering
all the young talent it was a blast watching the players develop and even come
away with an impressive bowl win (albeit against a very mediocre team). I have
very high hopes for this year (9-3 or 10-2, with another decent bowl victory).
It will be another year with a lot of young talent, but it won't be a rebuilding
year--the Cougs should be pretty decent. Go Cougs!
1-Byu's indoor facility was built before Utah's was. Spence Eccles built Utah's
on the cheap, to appease Urban Meyer, he fled anyway. Compared to BYU's, it's a
dump, comparable to Utah State's.2-The U of U did not contribute in
any way shape or form to the construction of Qwest field, Franklin Covey Field
or now named, Spring Mobile. Get real!Utah baseball lost it's field
at Red Butte, to make way for Olympic Housing.they built a make-shift
facility on Sunnyside Ave., with the backstop right up to the street, they did
not have the sense to move it up far enough to accomodate a Grandstand.
Sunnyside is their "Official Field".Not Spring Mobile. Who are
yuou trying to fool?Einer Neilson seated abt. 4k, Smith Fieldhouse
seated 10k, so even in the 50's and 60's, BYU was more than doubling Utah in
attendance.They ybuilt the Marriott Center to accomodate fans, not
to follow the Utes. In 40 years BYU has been top 20 in attendance 36 times and
top ten more than 25 times.Utah today, can't fill their 15k seat
Mormon Ute, I think BYU is not concerned about filling its stadium. Even last
season the stadium was 95% full, even to watch a sub-500 team (at the time) play
against teams like Wyoming and New Mexico. They could certainly use an
expansion."Even last year in what many considered a down year
for Utah, Utah still beat byu and still went 10-3"KH,I hate to break it to you, but that season was only one of 6 seasons in almost
a hundred years of football that the Utes got 10 wins or more. If that's a down
year, then that only shows that Utah has had very few good years.However, you are right in calling out BYU fans saying that Utah will never get
a BCS game again or BYU will never have a Crowton era again. I say never say
never. Anything could happen. Utah could go BCS as soon as next year. So
could BYU. Utah could have a losing season next year. So could BYU. Either
team could win a National Championship ten years from now. Who knows until it
@ductmanSpring Mobile is on no way a facility of the university if
utah. They rent it. Period. The only athletic facility that utah has that is of
the quality of the ones at BYU is RES. True it is not as large but it is a very
nice stadium. The new track at the u is also very nice but it is not of the
quality of BYU's.I contract alot of work at athletic facilities and
have preformed on just about every athletic facility at both schools and BYU's
facilities are absolutely superior. But the assertion that utah's are not of
good quality is not correct as they have alot of nice athletic facilities and
I'm sure that with the infusion of cash they're getting they will be upgrading
existing ones and building new ones that they need.The truth is very
few schools facilities compare to BYU's. Most schools do not have the financial
backing BYU has. Everything BYU has is 1st rate, just like everything the church
has. That is not a knock on utah, it is a state school with limitations. BYU is
private and owned by deep pockets.
"byu just had a "crowton type year" last year. It very well may
happen again. "Let's just say that any team can have a bad
cycle and for anyone to believe that BYU's 2010 was something normal, it was far
from it. It was an experiment that blew up in the lab and the formula was
quickly changed. For a rebuilding year lessons were learned and players were
developed. Momentum was regained.Utes had the opposite and now
they're going to a tougher conference. I'm very doubtful for your 8-4 season
first trip through. Those three losses last year literally took a 10-3 season,
which normally is a good one and threw in the toilet for a year or two. Losing a
bowl game is like losing a full head of steam before climbing a hill. That
'hill' is the Pac.We see words like 'cautious optimism' thrown
around. It's 'code' for expect some bad things, not as good as we thought, we
hope things will work out, etc.Enjoy that #20 because this next
decade is going to be far different. No more cupcakes.
Actually, sammyg, there will still be cupcakes. WSU is not exactly a
powerhouse, Arizona has had quite a few bad years, and don't count on UCLA
putting up a strong team. And the way you hear some "Ute fans" talk,
you would think BYU is a cupcake (which they bought out of a game with BSU in
order to add to their schedule).I would have to add that 8-4 is
possible for Utah this season. So is 7-5, which might be more likely. You
shouldn't take any game for granted, guaranteeing a win (see BYU-USU 2010,
Utah-UNLV 2007). However, here are the probable games I see for Utah, games
which Utah might lose: USC, BYU, WU, ASU, Pitt, and OSU. They could win all,
they could lose all, who knows? They'll likely lose about 4 of them (my guess
is USC, BYU, ASU, Pitt).For BYU, the probable games are Miss, Texas,
Utah, UCF, OSU, TCU, and Hawaii. More probables than Utah, but BYU is likely to
win more of these. I say they lose to about 2 or 3 (my guess is Texas and TCU,
but BYU could win all).
Can I just say that this has become no fun to read.
When Mayor Deedee Corridini signed the City on to a $20 million revenue bond to
build the baseball park it would not have gone through without the guaranteed
participation of the U. It's going to be the home of U baseball for a long
time.Up until 1964 Utah had the larger football stadium. BYU's was
located next to the hillside by the Smith Fieldhouse. In 1964 they moved it to
the current location put in a track and built the east and west stands.In 1984 both undertook stadium projects. Utah took the track out lowered the
field and added the south endzone. BYU took the track out and added the two
endzones and for the first time really became the much larger stadium.In 1998-99 Utah undertook a complete makeover and basically replaced the
existing one with a brand new one leaving the south endzone. Though smaller
Utah's stadium has been the state of the art facility for some time now.As for the Marriott Center and Huntsman Center both are about the same
size physically but the Huntsman is all chairs and the Marriott is half
Riverton Cougar,I have some problems with your logic. First, the
95% average attendance doesn't mean the stadium was that full for all home
games. Some were more full, others were less full. I don't know the exact
numbers, but those Wyoming and New Mexico games were likely on the less full
side.Second, how do you justify expanding a stadium that is not full
every game? All that means is you end up with more empty seats in a bigger
stadium which takes that sellout percentage down further.
Duckhunter,First, how many top notch college football programs
around the country rent space for some of their sports? USC renting the
colesium comes to mind right off. No disgrace in renting space.Second, you say BYU is private and owned by deep pockets as if to say the
Church spends money on the athletic program. You need to check your facts
there. President Hinckley stated publicly that not a dime of tithing money is
used to support the athletic programs at Church schools. I'm sure there are
some pretty large donors to the athletic program, but let's not confuse that
with Church resources.
sammyg,Those three loses were to teams of much better caliber than
the teams BYU lost to and BYU's rebound came against the same teams the Utes
were pounding on early in the season. I think you called them cupcakes. So
BYU's momentum was built on sub-par teams many of whom had losing records. As
far as losing bowl games goes, BYU has lost something like 55% of their bowl
games and from 1998 through 2005 lost 4 in a row. Meanwhile, Utah had the
longest bowl winning streak in the nation until last season. I don't think
criticizing one bowl loss of the Utes is going to get you very far.
DutchI have done work on both stadiums. BYU's is better....without
question. Huntsman Center seats 15,000. Marriott Center seats 22,700. That's a
34% difference. To put it in perspective, would you like a 34% raise? I will say
it again, BYU is light years ahead of Utah. As Chrisssy would say, game set
Mormon Ute Do the teams in the Pac play better football than the
MWC?Is the Pac known as the 'Conference of Champions'?Do
the Utes have a long history of winning road games in the Pac?Did
the Utes not have problems against better teams last year?Did the
Utes get 'lucky' against AFA, SDSU and BYU last year?How many points
did the offense put up against better teams last year?How's your QB
this year, how about those back-ups?How's that rugby player working
out?Got any great news on the new offense from Spring camp?Are the coaches as optimistic as the fans?Are fans worried and
saying things like 'cautious optimism' about their team? What's your
favorite motel chain?Is it available in Las Vegas?Good
luck in the Pac. 8-4 is wishful thinking. It wasn't the fact of losing just one
bowl game, it was how the Utes lost it.A new offense, with obviously
less key players, going into a bigger conference somehow does not equate to an
8-4, 7-5, or 6-6 season.
@ductmanSo how does that make it a facility of the u? It doesn't. It
just means they get some revenue to help pay for the place by renting it out to
utah. Claiming it belongs to the university is one of your more outlandish
claims.BYU's stadium was renovated and expanded several years before
your claim. You need a fact checker.@mormon uteI
recently finished some contracted work at BYU's track and was paid by the
university. Yes there are donors to help pay for alot of BYU's athletic pursuits
but you are simply ignorant on this subject. Most of BYU's facilities are paid
for, and maintained, by the school itself. They don't run to a donor every
single time they do anything. It would be great if donors paid for everything
but they don't.You are partially correct in that the church has
asked the athletic department to pay for itself but that is a mandate on its
operations, not on its billion dollars worth of facilities. The department is
self funded through revenue and runs a surplus, a remarkable feat, but it
doesn't just pay for facilities.
Duckhunter brings up a point about BYU facilities and financial resources and he
is in the same camp as almost all BYU fans are in stating that as a private
university BYU always has and always will have better facilities and more
financial support than most state schools. For the most part that is true and I
have come to believe that is one if not the main reason why BYU was excluded
from the PAC 12 expansion last year. The PAC 12 state schools are already
competing against two private universities in Stanford and USC both of which
like BYU are well funded and potentially facility rich. That plus the fact that
the tuition rate at BYU is a bargain puts BYU at a competitive advantage. When
annual tuition at USC is $40,000 and Stanford is much higher vs. BYU tuition at
about $10,000 then BYU can do more with their athletic scholarships. I believe
the state schools in the PAC 10 did not want to compete with this and thus said
"no" to BYU. BYU's own success in this realm hurt them.Cougars1,Love your endzone seats at BYU to justify your comment?
The team in Provo failed to crack the Top 25.Vegas Bowl invites and
early departures from the NCAA aren't going to get you far in the world of
M. UteIt wasn't the loss at the bowl, it was the manner in which the
loss happened and the other 2 losses and the near losses at AFA, SDSU and
BYU.It's the quality of the game and the players. This coming season
is not going to be like it was last year. It can't be because every Ute fan says
the quality of the teams in the PAC is so much better than the MWC.What most Ute fans are denying is the simple fact that this year's team is not
last year's team. Your QB is not a 100% and several players are missing. Spring
camp was less than stellar.I hope the Utes can pull it together but
I'm expecting a .500 season at best. If it's more, great. If not, I told you
so.From stomping cupcakes to being one is how I look at it.You can't be a mediocre team from a mediocre conference and expect to be the
greatest in a bigger, better conference. I keep hearing "you can't have it
both ways". We shall see.
Duckhunter,If you cosign on a mortgage what does that make you? It
makes you more than a "renter" which is what you are claiming the U is
at Spring Mobile. Anyway, as MormonUte points out USC uses the Coliseum and
UCLA uses the Rose Bowl. For years USC basketball played in the LA Sports Arena
until they built their own five years ago. So what? I would think you would be
a big supporter of public-private partnerships to get more efficiency out of
facilities.Thanks for the information on how BYU funds facilities.
That was revealing and the first time I have heard that from a BYU fan. Bottom
line is that is why the PAC 10 presidents rejected BYU and why the MWC made so
serious attempt to keep BYU around. No one can compete with that type of
financial support. BYU fans call it anti Mormon bias I call it simple
Cougars1,Anyone who has been to both stadiums recognizes right off
the bat that RES is by far the better facility. I know we have been
talking primarily about sport facilities but someone suggested that I take a
walk through the facilities. Well, I don't have access to the bowels of sports
facilities at BYU or the U but I did earn degrees from both schools and I have
been inside virtually every academic building on both campuses and I have sat in
classrooms in many of them and I can tell you honestly that I did not detect
much difference between the quality of the facilities of the two schools.
However, right now the "new" completely rebuilt Marriott Library at
the U is head and shoulders above the Lee Library at BYU. If you have not
visited the Marriott Library since its completion you need to go there for the
experience. It is astounding and from what I hear makes it the best Library
right now in the PAC 12 even better than Stanford and Washington.
DutchLegacy seats;)Hope that library helps U win some
DutchTry to stay on the topic of athletic facilities. LES is a much
nicer stadium than RES. The visitor lockers at RES are like a dungeon, among
other things. It's a nice place to watch a game, but like it or not, LES still
seats about 20,000 more than RES.
@DutchmanThere is no doubt springmobile is a nice facility and it is
great the utes have it to play in, it just isn't their own. You are correct that
having that sort of partnership is a good one. But we are having a discussion on
which school owns the better facilities here and that is hands down BYU and you
have aknowledged some of the reasons why. But as I said utah's facilities are
not poor and I expect them to keep improving with the cash they are now getting.
But they will probably always have a disadvantage to BYU in that area because
they will never have the financial backing BYU has. Plus BYU's backer insists
all facilities be top of the line, first class, etc.I have seen the
preliminary plans for the new utah football facility and it is going to be
excellent. If utah is smart, and I think Chris Hill is smart, they will invest
1st in the facilities that will give them a return on the investment and then
move on to things they need but don't give them a return. I'm sure a plan is in
DutchDid I just read your comment right? BYU did not get invited to
the PAC because of the ADVANTAGE they have in money available to spend on
facilities. Thanks for the compliment, but you and your Ute buddies are making
Mormon UteI like you, but when BYU was winning Las Vegas bowls, Utah
fans made fun of BYU for going to a lesser bowl every year. So naturally, when
Utah goes to the Las Vegas bowl and gets pounded, BYU fans are going to pile it
on. We wouldn't expect anything less from the Ute faithful if the same thing
happened to BYU. Wait, I seem to remember some piling on after BYU lost to
Arizona in Las Vegas. What goes around comes around.
Duckhunter, "But they will probably always have a disadvantage
to BYU in that area because they will never have the financial backing BYU
has."I take that to mean the financial backing of the LDS
Church rather than the State of Utah. In that you are absolutely correct. I
have pointed this out before but Forbes list of billionaire alums indicates that
there are only 22 universities in the country with more billionaire alums than
the U. The U requires $2 billion of non State funds to meet its operation and
maintenance budget each year. That money has to come from somewhere and it
doesn't come from the State of Utah. A lot of it comes from generous donors who
get so stretched that they don't have more available for athletics. BYU is different with the LDS Church as its owner and backer. This is a
positive for BYU. But again, I believe that the PAC 10 presidents considered
all of this and decided long ago that a third privately funded university with
all its resources coupled with low tuition rates could not be accommodated by
the State funded schools already in the PAC 10.
sammyg,How does Boise State compare to UTEP? Losing to a team
picked by many to finish in the top ten this fall I don't believe is too
disgraceful, no matter how bad a loss it was.
sammyg,You're entitled to your opinion. I believe this year's team
will be as good as last year's and that's why I have said I believe 8-4 or 9-3
is doable. I also have several ESPN.com analysts and national observers from
other publications who are saying the same thing. So I'm not just basing my
opinion on my own observations. I am concerned about the QB and RB situations,
but am reserving judgement on them until fall. Solid coaching can help overcome
Congrats to the Utes! My best to them and their program.
A sobering moment in all the euphoria, it puts us middle of the pack in the Pac
12, not in the upper tier. This becomes even more disconcerting when you
consider they were measuring the absolute golden era of U of U sports success
for both programs which was feeding on mediocre (not Pac 12 caliber)
competition, which realistically drops us a couple more slots.I have
a strong hunch that I'm going to miss life in the MWC and the opportunity to go
to BCS Bowl games on a routine basis. It's not going to be fun seeing us in the
middle of the pack or lower on a consistent basis in the Pac 12. For
the average fan, the money that the new TV deal will someday bring in doesn't
mean a thing. It's wins and losses that matter. Already it seems, in joining the
Pac 12 we killed the golden goose.
@SammygThe major concern is with our secondary. As a unit, they have
been getting progressively worse and less athletic since the 2008 season. For
Kyle's defensive scheme to work properly we need to have corners who can play
very tight in man coverage and be big enough to be physical with them at the LOS
but fast enough to stay with them downfield. It takes experience
along with the athletic ability so it may be a while before this unit gets up to
speed. As for QB, Wynn has been a bit of an enigma. If he goes down to an injury
then we're hosed and a 6-6 season will look pretty good. But if he stays healthy
he has a great WR group to throw to and a decent OL to protect (decent by MWC
standards, we'll have to wait and see how they stand up to Pac 12 pass rushes)
so there's no reason why we can't go 8-4 our first year even without a reliable
Duckhunter,The following is a quote directly from BYUCougars.com,
"How are BYU's athletic programs financially supported?Most of the
funding used for BYU's athletic programs comes from football and men's
basketball ticket sales. Additional funds are obtained through corporate
sponsors, the fundraising efforts of the Cougar Club, and private donations. The
university does provide a small amount of funding, but no tithing dollars from
members of the LDS Church are used to run the athletic programs."My guess is the small amount mentioned comes from student fees, since
virtually every university in the country charges the students something to help
with the athletic programs. I also don't see how something they are calling a
small amount can possibly fund the construction of all the athletic facilities
as you claim.
Duckhunter,More proof this weekend of how well the Utes stack up in
our other sports. Our rugby team handed Army its first loss of the season to
advance to the semi-finals against Cal, a future PAC-12 foe. Seems like we are
matching up quite well with the PAC-12.
@mormon uteAre you paying any attention at all to anything I have
told you? yes the operations of the athletic department are funded by football
and basketball revenues plus donor dollars. That is not how all of the
FACILITIES are built and maintained. They do fund raise to help pay
for facility construction but like all other facilities on campus they are
built, upgraded, and maintained through university funds. I really don't see how
this is so hard for you to understand. They fund raise to help pay
for facility construction for all of the buildings on campus but the church
still pays the difference and that is how it is done. I really don't
know what else to tell you as you seem to be completely incapable of dealing
with this so I will tell you one more time.THE LDS CHURCH, which
owns and sponsors BYU, pays for the facilities on campus. They insist on
everything being top of the line and they pay to have it be top of the line.
That includes ALL CAMPUS FACILITIES athletic or otherwise. yes they fund raise
to help pay for them but that is all. Sheesh.
RealisticUte,"I have a strong hunch that I'm going to miss life
in the MWC".Coach LaVelle Edwards once said, "I would
rather lose and live in Provo than win and live in Laramie". Well, I am
sure that I speak for the vast majority of Ute fans in saying, "I would
rather lose and be a member of the PAC 12 than stay and win in the MWC".
@mormon uteRugby is not a pac10 sport. It isn't even an NCAA sport.
It is a club sport and the schools that participate in it are completely
seperate from the NCAA. The kids on the teams do not receive scholarships. What
the u does in rugby has absolutely no bearing on how they stack up to the
pac10.But since you are on the subject I posted just a couple of
weeks ago about how I am really beginning to become a fan of Rugby and how great
it is that both BYU and utah had such excellent programs. My guess is that is in
large part because there are so many polynesians around here and that is a sport
they play in their home countries. Whatever the reason I'm happy about it but it
has absolutely nothing to do with the pac10.Sorry but you really
need to do your homework on this sort of stuff.
Duckhunter,No, I'm afraid it is you who is not getting it. When the
official statement is that no tithing dollars are used to fund the athletic
programs, where else does the Church get the money you say they spend to make
all the athletic facilities top notch? It is you who is incapable of dealing
with the truth here. I'm sure the academic facilities get a lot of money from
tithing funds, but when the prophet makes the statement in conference and BYU's
own web site makes the same statement, what is it the you don't understand?
Where do they get the money from?As far as rugby goes, I know it is
not officially santioned by the NCAA and is a club sport. However, the teams do
use the facilities on their own campuses for training and are supported by the
schools in other ways. I am refuting your assertion that we have nothing to
offer outside of football. No homework needed for me, but you could use some
accounting help to understand the funding issues at BYU.
"I would rather lose and be a member of the PAC 12 than stay and win in the
MWC". -DutchmanAmen. Couldn't have said it better myself. Glad
we can all agree that leaving the MWC is like jumping out of the toilet.