holmoe :They came in with an established record. Were trying to make small
steps.If the definition is "established record" means
winning a lot of mid level conference games and getting exposed by legit BCS
teams... then yes, "established record".Notre Dame is an
anomaly that transends religion - truly the face of college football. BCS powers
knoe if they give BYu the same status, Notre Dame will ask for more.byu= army, navy
Re: Chris B."sunday school boys"Why the
bigotry against the LDS players on your own team?Re: hedgehog"established record": Notre Dame and BYU each have more
national championships than Utah.Just sayin'.
We're not saying we're the same as Notre Dame. But we want to get an automatic
BSC bid if we're in the top 8.
When was the last time BYU ended the season ranked in the top 8 in the BCS
standings? Getting the Notre Dame exemption or not, BYU isn't going to a BCS
game anytime soon. They didn't do it while in the MWC with a weaker schedule,
so why expect them to do it now with a tougher schedule? Why would the BCS
grant an exemption to BYU ever? They will never be on the same caliber as Notre
Dame and should never be treated like it. Get to the BCS first (as the rules
are now) before trying to write the rules on how you should get in....prove it
first.Fair or unfair, the BCS looks for any reason to keep the money
out of the hands of the non-BCS conferences and independents, other than Notre
Dame. It's been unfair since the beginning, but that is just how it is. I, for
one, am just happy I don't have to worry about what the BCS will do to non-BCS
teams, since the PAC12 inclusion eliminates those worries. I feel for you
re: The Disillusionist Can we stop living in the '80s uncle rico.Cornell has 5 national championships and Army has 3, so they have better
football programs than Auburn, BYU, Florida State, right?1984 wasn't
even our best year. Let's be proud of the here and now.We don't
necessarily deserve to have the same rules as ND yet, we need to prove it with
our record. Our schedule isn't that difficult this year, so we will get a good
start on proving we deserve better.
Chris you are making yourself look ridiculous. Sometimes you have valid points
or at least potential fears. However, the logic that somehow the honor code
prevents you from having talent is rather bizarre.I expect some
minor modification to the BCS mainly in the form of lawsuits.
Re: byu_num_1"Can we stop living in the '80s uncle
rico."Easy there, num_1. Tom Holmoe was arguing that Notre Dame
had an "established record." That argument certainly isn't based on
ND's recent accomplishments. So 1984 is relevant to the discussion."Let's be pround of the here and now."Agreed. BYU's
record three out of the last four years speaks for itself. Too bad Holmoe didn't
use it to make his argument.
@ The Disillusionist. You smugly refer to BYU's championship in '84 as
validation of their current legitimacy. Should we Ute fans proclaim our
basketball team's awesomeness by referring to our 1944 national championship?
Live in the now. It's a sad existence to be forced to draw upon
such antiquated success.
I wasn't even going to respond to this one, but come on Chris B and Hedgehog...
knock it off. You are both an embarasement to Ute fans or any other sports fans.
Notre Dame got a special deal with the BCS because it brings tens of millions of
dollars to college football and has an enormous fan base. Also, it has
tradition that goes back decades and decades.The team in Provo has
neither of those things because Vegas Bowl wins don't count. There will be no
sweetheart deal -- especially for a team that's basically a member of the WAC in
I'm glad to finally see some concrete information on this. I have been
wondering what kind of deal BYU would be able to work out and I think this is
@eswinyI was citing BYU's 1984 national championship vis-a-vis Tom
Holmoe's statement that Notre Dame deserved their BCS status due to their
"established record." None of ND's recent accomplishments in football
can be cited in support of said "established record." Tom Holmoe could
have made a much better case for BYU receiving the same standing as ND.And yes, Ute fans should by all means proclaim their basketball team's
"awesomeness" by referring to their 1944 "championship" (if
"championship" you want to call it).
@eswinyWell considering utah didn't win a national championship in
basketball in 1944 you really have no point.As far as the bcs access
is concerned this is good enough. If BYU is a top 14 team they will probably get
a look and if they are top 10 it will mean they are undefeated and will probably
get in. One thing about the bcs is that they have been smart enough not to
exclude any undefeated non bcs teams since they excluded BYU a decade ago. It
puts to much of a bad light on them and the last thing they need is any more bad
publicity. The truth is utah won't be getting in either if they
don't fullfill pretty much the same requirements. I don't think the pac10 has
ever put a 2nd team into a bcs game have they? You have to be the pac10 champ to
get in, only the SEC and Big12 can put a 2nd place team into the bcs. The only thing utah has gained is they are automatic if they are the pac10
champ and I really don't see that happening any time soon.
The Blue is the Notre Dame of the west. We have a national championship too.
We beat Notre Dame a bunch of times. We deserve the same deal as
Notre Dame! Attorney General Shurtleff should demand special status for BYU as
part of the plea deal against the illegal BCS.Who's in town --
Cougars in Town!!!
re: I Still Can't Say ItIf Las Vegas Bowl wins don't count, then
what do LV Bowl losses represent?Many of you forget that it was
because of BYU that at-large bids were extended to non BCS teams.
Tom Holmoe is simply making a case for fair treatment. If you want to look in
the "here-and-now" it's hard to argue that BYU doesn't have enough
'going on.' They have a solid fan-base, a well-run program, a large
undergraduate student population, their own cable channel, and vast resources.
It'd be hard to argue that teams like UConn and Rutgers (or most other Big East
teams) deserve an autobid and leave other good schools out like BYU. With 5 BCS
bowls, why shouldn't a BYU that finishes in the top-8, not be guarenteed a
spot?Winning enough to be ranked #8 is another question. Something
that non-elite programs reach only with a combo of great talent, staying
healthy, senior experience and a pinch of luck.In the BCS, jus like
other 'systems', if you win your games, you will be rewarded.The BCS
system has it's pluses for the non-BCS conference teams---and it has it's
minuses. It's far better than the old bowl system, so Mr. Holmoe is just trying
to make it better----for one team at least. Can't fault him there.
I suppose this deal is good for right now but I hope the BCS implodes on itself
and a true playoff is instituted with other supporting bowl games.
"I don't think the pac10 has ever put a 2nd team into a bcs game have
they?"Ducky,You just confirm what everyone already
knows. You don't no much about the PAC12.You need to look just to
last year when both Oregon and Stanford went to a BCS game....
BYU is much closer to Notre Dame caliber than the utes. Yes, you can mark it
down. Face it! The Irish haven't done much to past few years, but did crush the
Utes. The Cougs would never get blown out like the utes did. Period! Notre Dame
has a richer tradition, but hasn't been Cougar caliber the past few years
I have said all along that this is fair and fine. BYU does not need an ND
exemption. If in the future, BYU is in the top 10, undefeated, and
does not get in the BCS, it would be another huge blow to the credibility of BCS
and would hopefully help quicken its' downfall. BYU may travel well
in the West and fill stadiums, but cities still do not want us because we come
to games with a $100 bill and the 10 commandments and don't break either one.
All BYU can do is just line up and beat the person across from you. Then let the
chips fall where they may. Go Cougs!
Sporting News -"Holmoe said he would not attend the BCS meetings, set for
Tuesday through Thursday in New Orleans." Who could blame him.
I'm sure he's not intrested in being on the receiving end on "eye
rolls" and "hand cupped wishpers".I just read that
Jack Swarbrick ( ND VP of athletics) will be attending.... rumors are swirling
again that the BIG10 is pushing hard for ND.
Good thing BYU is only interested in exposure and not a national championship.
Duckhunter,You're usually pretty accurate in your statements, but
you missed it on this one.In 2004 Boise State was undefeated and did
not get invited to a BCS bowl.Also, just last season two PAC-10
teams played in BCS bowl games. Oregon and Stanford.
Cosmo's Cousin,Where did you come from? AG Shurtleff cannot
advocate for BYU, because they are a private school and a religious private
school to boot.
The y hasn't been close to having a BCS bowl worthy season since the BCS was
created. I guess it is like me telling my boy that he can grow up to be
president. He is a smart goodlooking young man but just because he has the
right to be president doesn't mean that he is likely to live on Pennsylvania
Avenue some day.
Holmoe is taking a reasonable position. BYU is a good and rising team. It has
had some consistency problems over the past few years along with difficulty
recruiting sufficient bench depth. So, it DOES have something to prove. ND
hasn't been good for a while, but has a much longer football tradition and
historical contribution to the sport--earning it special treatment.The promise of high exposure on ESPN along with BYU's probable performance
over the next few seasons is likely to yield increasingly impressive recruiting
classes. BYU is a pretty consistent top 15-20 team. We are the
best second tier team that everyone love's to hate. Current changes should
elevate BYU to a consistent top 10-15 team with occasional forays into the top
10. Once we establish this new range, we will be on the doorstep of ND's
treatment. We MIGHT get into a BCS game in two years because the
planets align, but I don't see us being strong contenders for another 10 years.
I'm not negative on the team. I think making the top 10-15 would be wonderful
and lead to better things. Be patient. Go Cougars!
crisb, hedge and those of the same stripe; Your Jealousy and Obsession are fully
exposed today. I can hear your whining voices clearly in my mind. and
hedge; Your spell check is still not working properly.Nothing has
changed for BYU as far as getting to a BCS game. They can still follow the Ute,
Boise, TCU and Hawaii recipe and go undefeated by playing 8 or 9 easy games and
winning against a few good ones. They also have ESPN on their side and your not
too bright if you don't think that isn't a major plus. Who do you think will go
to a BCS game between a 10th ranked BYU and a 9th ranked Utah at the end of the
season. The answer will make U Blue with envy. National respect, national fan
base and a decades long record of excellence.They actually have an easier
path than the Utes do now. Being in an BCS conference does not mean you will
ever be in a BCS game. You still have to be very successful. Time will tell.
It sounds fair to me. After all, BYU never made it to a BCS Bowl when they were
in the MWC. Getting too hyped up over the requirements of getting to a BCS bowl
seems VERY premature. BYU has a steep climb over the next few years.
"$100 bill and the 10 commandments and don't break either one"AZguy,Ok, that was funny.
"The Cougs would never get blown out like the utes did."Those games against Utah State and Florida State (either of the two years)
were pretty awful... don't say never. Pretty much every team takes some
Mormon Ute: Cosmo's Cousin is one of your own. She pretends to be a
byu fan and says crazy things to make byu fans look bad.Immature I
know, but it's how she is.Want proof?Cosmo's Cousin |
7:52 p.m. April 4, 2011 Holladay, UT I expect something like
this....Utes2012 - PAC-12 runner up & Sweet 16 visit2013 - PAC-12 Champ & Final 4 visit2014 - PAC-12 Champ &
National ChampionshipBYU2012 - WCC 4th place & no post
season2013 - WCC 3rd place & no post season2013 - WCC runner up
& NIT berthSorry Mormon Ute - you are arguing with one of your
own. Classy of her huh?
To the naysayers: Just when you say 'never' it will happen. Why do people
insist on following conventional wisdom. I distinctly remember the AD down at
USC saying that he didn't think USC would ever go independent but that it's not
out of the question either. Here's the thing: if BYU can be even reasonably
successful as an independent, more teams are going to look to break away from a
conference and create their own brand. Texas is already kind of doing that as
well. It's only a matter of time.
Coach Holmoe:Don't sell BYU short vs. Notre Dame. I bet since 1980
BYU has had more wins, has had one national championship to ND's one national
championship and since the inception of the BCS probably won a lot more games.
I would dare say it's overall athletic dept is also much superior. Notre Dame,
much like Europe, biggest selling point is how great it used to be. Those days
are long over for the most part but ND fans can point to the days of Lou Holt,
Joe Montana etc but brag about much lately.. I think Navy, which has beaten ND
the last couple of meetings, is more deserving than ND for this
"elitist" designation. And if the argument is that ND has more
followers, then I guess the BCS has lost all credibility, if it had any, because
it certainly isn't about gauging BYU or Navy vs. Notre Dame on what has actually
happened on the field, most recently and even back further.
BYU wins on the field speak for a BCS game. Losses take us out of the equation
like a rock hitting lake water. So, just win baby. During the Heaps era I expect
to see a BYU team in a BCS bowl game.
Sorry Lou HoltZ not Lou Holt, don't want to be picked on for that typo...
Duckhunter,"I don't think the pac10 has ever put a 2nd team
into a bcs game have they?"Last season my friend. Oregon and
Stanford.Utah did win a legitimate b-ball title in 1944. Go do some
research on how Navy built an all american team at Dartmouth and lost to the
Utes in the NCAA. Then Utah played the NIT champs in Madison Sq Garden before
17,000 fans which was heralded by the media as the national title game and won.
Please do some homework before making uninformed comments.
Let's try getting to the BCS like all other non BCS confernece teams have done -
WIN ALL OUR GAMES. Hawaii has done that, Boise has done it twice, TCU did it
twice and Utah has done it twice. If we are so good and "loaded with
talent" every year, let's win all our games and we'll be in.
worf,Uh, who beat BYU right after losing to Notre Dame? That's
right, those underachieving Utes.
BCS. Fair. How anyone can use these two words in the same sentence is beyond me.
Ute fans, of all people, should know this better than anyone but I guess their
inclusion in the BCS cartel has changed their principles. It is an ABSOLUTE
DISGRACE that our nation's service academies have to be in the top 2 of the BCS
rankings in order to earn an automatic BCS bowl berth. It also makes no sense
because if they were in the top 2 of the BCS rankings shouldn't that mean they
would be playing in the NC game?! The whole thing is the biggest Ponzi scheme
ever perpetrated on the American public.
@Ted HThat was an April Fool's post. You would know that if you
read my other messages in the string. I get sick of you being on my back. I
think your a big Utah Utes fan.
I have to agree with the premise - first, get to a BCS bowl game. And preferably
win. Maybe twice. Then we can push for an ND type of agreement. The exciting thing is, I think the cougs have increasingly good chances. No
need to put Utah down, other than in September. The work is there to do, and I
think the pieces are in place to get it done. And happiness will be
watching it all in big, beautiful, high def, surround sound color.
Cosmo,April fool's on April 4th? Did you forget to take
"Holidays 101" at the U? Isn't that the final class all graduates to
be must take?I'm sorry you get upset I continue to point out your
high character and obsession with BYU.It's ok your a ute. I
remember when it used to be fun to pretend to be from the other side to make
those people look foolish. But then I grew up. Perhaps U will someday too,
but I wont be holding my breath.
Uteman, Utah's BCS Bowl appearances are tainted in that the undefeated seasons
were padded with mid-major season-long opponents like BYU, TCU, etc. The
victories mean little as the Utes spent the entire season resting while playing
inferior competition; then they were lucky in the end. In the PAC12, the
poundings will be endless and often. Might as well book tickets for the Las
Vegas Bowl or the new Magna Bowl each year. And then, there is basketball
season...oh my heart!
DutchmanUtah won the most watered-down NCAA tournament in history
back when the NCAA tournament was still the little brother to the NIT, which
Utah first lost in to Kentucky.Utah's ENTIRE regular season
consisted of three games:Idaho State (twice) and Colorado Collegebecause nobody else in the whole intermountain area was still playing
basketball, as was the case for most of the country.The few teams
still playing basketball were composed mostly of Freshmen and Sophomores because
all of the upperclassmen were off fighting a world war.
I agree with Y Dad. BYU needs to prove it on the field first. It may take a
few years though, because BYU is mostly playing teams in our conference for the
next couple of years.
@dutchmanYou realize I posted a question?"I don't
think the pac10 has ever gotten two teams into a bcs bowl have they?"You see by asking a question it means I don't claim to know the answer.
Obviously the university of utah doesn't teach its students what this (?) symbol
means. LOLBut I see now that they have gotten 2 teams in. One time.
Last year. And all they had to do was have one go undefeated and the other have
only one loss to do it. Compare that to the records of some of the 2nd teams
that have gotten in from the big 12 and sec and you'll see a 2nd rate bcs
conference.Also utah did not win the basketball national
championship in 1944. The ncaa tourney was a second rate start up tourney and in
no way was the winner of it considered the national champion. You see here I am
now laughing at you. LOL
Re Hedgehog at 12:08 pm:You might "no" but I
Mormon Ute:You, I, and anyone else who saw the game, know the utes
got lucky and were outplayed. A freak bounce of the ball and a missed refs call.
It's not an excuse but fact. The Cougs are better suited for the Pac-10, but I'd
rather they be independent. Utes will not go bowling for at least three years or
AZguy: That was so funny. I laughed when I read that - laughed real loud.
Thanks for the insight. You are so right on. But that is the way we LDS people
TheSportsAuthority and Duckhunter,For someone claiming sports
authority you fall way short. Neither of you has done any research on the 1944
championship. Go read what the US Naval Dept created at Dartmouth college with
the all americans from all over the country that they brought there. How do you
explain the victory Utah got over the NIT champs at Madison Sq Garden before
17,000? How do you explain how the national media hyped it as the national
tilte game? Please, please do your homework. I have never once denigrated
BYU's 1984 national championship. I saw it on TV and I cheered. Please don't
denegrate Utah's 1944 title especially when you know so little about it. Check
the NCAA record books, it goes down as a national title. Also, those boys went
to war and came back in 1947 and won the NIT, the very championship you so
admire. Are you going to denigrate that too?You two sound like some
of those frustrated BYU fans Tom Holmoe referred to in a quotation in another
Wrong Dukcy, there is an NCAA Championship Banner up at the U; sorry to burst
your blue eyed goggles. They were the NCAA Champions that year no matter how
hard you try to discount it; its in the books. Speaking of discounting
something let's look at 1984 when BYU did not play in a championship game of any
sort, didn't play in a January bowl game, and beat a 6-5 team in a second rate
bowl. Add to this not beating any team that wound up in the AP top 25; and they
were the best team in the country, sure; that's why we now have the BCS so that
type of thing will never happen again.
With a little bit of luck, BYU will get a major BCS bowl game on Sunday.
Cosmo's Cousin | 1:58 p.m. April 22, 2011 Holladay, UT @Ted HThat was an April Fool's post. You would know that if you read my other
messages in the string. I get sick of you being on my back. I think your a big
Utah Utes fan. ===Ted, How about you send me your favorite
charity, and I send them $5 everytime you post a real post.Lame on
@dutchman Once again utah did not win the national championship in
1944 no matter how hard you try to convince yourself they did. The ncaa
championship WAS NOT the national championship in 1944. @pebblesAll I could decipher in your post was the following:"whine, whine, whiny, whine, wimper, whine, whine."
What they should say is that Notre Dame brings in more money, therefore they get
better odds at playing for a national championship. How does a team's past
performance have anything to do with what they will accomplish in the future? I
am no BYU or Utah fan, but anybody could tell you that Notre Dame is no better
than BYU, Utah,or Boise st. and haven't been for quite some time. This system
is corrupt and unfair on all accounts I for one cannot wait for the day when it
finally crashes down on itself.
It doesn't matter byu will get in the BCS several times now that we have Heaps
and Q. It will be domination on everyone else.
Dutchman Homework doneUtah's 1944 Regular Season 18th Replacement WingA.S.T.P. Company DA.S.T.P. Company BA.S.T.P. ERCHill Field FliersWeberWeber NavyKearns
2ndFort DouglasWendover Bomber Quinn Idaho StateEcker
StudioColorado CollegeFort LoganFort WarrenKearnsSalt Lake Air BaseBushnel HospitalIdaho StateDow ChemicalSalt Lake Air BaseInvited to NIT and NCAA; turned down NCAA to
play in more prestigious NIT.Lost opening round game to Kentucky 38-46 Utah's season should have been over, but Arkansas team bus crashed and
the NCAA needed a last second fill in (that's how few teams were playing
basketball in 1944).Utah beats Missouri, Iowa State and Dartmouth in
2nd rate tournament of the dayThen an exhibition fund-raiser was
arranged and the media hypes it as "the national championship game" to
attract more fans.Utah's whole season was nothing but hastily
arranged pickup games.NCAA championship - yesNational
championhip - not even closeBYU's 1951 and 1966 NIT championships,
are every bit as much national championships as Utah's 1944 NCAA and 1947 NIT
Duckhunter,I won't stoop to your level and start denigrating and
dismissing BYU's national championship in 1984 but as Rock of Marne has pointed
out there are many reasons to do so. You can discount it all you want but the
national media saw the game in Madison Sq Garden between Utah (NCAA champs) and
the NIT champs as the national title game for 1944. You see it differently but
of course you know more than all the sports writers and those that keep the
record books back in 1944. And you wonder why people think BYU fans are
I see the blog has been overrun by insecure, whiny Utah trolls.They're obviously scared to death that BYU is going to steal Utah's PAC 12
thunder.And, they should be.ESPN's hype machine is
already kicking into gear, as evidenced by ESPN's DirecTV satellite bus visiting
BYU today, as well as making stops at TCU, Oklahoma, LSU, Florida,
Florida State, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Nebraska and Boise State, UCLA, USC,
Stanford and Oregon, but skipping Utah.Just a sign of
things to come.
All BYU has to do now is win games...can't wait!
DutchmanThat's quite a daunting schedule Utah played in 1944. Just wondering, how many of those teams actually had players who played
high school basketball? Did Utah really play the Kearns 2nd ward?Compared to that schedule, BYU played an NFL schedule in 1984.
This is great news. Win 9 games and have a shot at a BCS game is not too shabby
for little insignificant independent program, eh hedgie?Geewiz, what
are Ute trolls going to say when all of their talking points about the BCS at
BYU's expense are taken away?Ute troll world just got a little
It does not need to be stated, if BYU is in the top ten, let alone top 8, they
will recieve an bcs bid. Have no doubt. Just watch.
So many people in the 801 think they know about the Pac 10....Duckhunter for
example. LOL. Stanford and Oregon this year. MWC? That would be one. Yeah,
the MWC is a better conference than the Pac 10. Check the draft results and
yes, Utah went to the Pac 10 (12) and BYU goes indy because the MWC is so
strong.....you guys that just state options based on the heart are funny.
Imagine that, ESPN rolls into town, and visits BYU, one of only 15 schools
visited, drives right by Utah and ignores them.How's that
Hopey-Changy Pac 10.2 working out for U?I guess Lee Corso was right,
Utah is "Almost" as nice as BYU.That's how You spell
"Brand" and "Cache". The Y has it, the U never
will.Still the Little-Brother-Utah. Always will be. You're Tommy Smothers, and Avis wrapped into one.Go Wazzu-Utes!5-6...6-5 Those will be your good years.
OK, thanks. I apologize. I apologize for ever sticking up for BYU's national
championship in 1984. I have defended it against family members and friends.
Well no more. I will from here on out denigrate it to the teeth. The 1984
title you call a championship was a joke. What goes around comes around.
Thanks. You all made my day.
byu has never been to a bcs game playing in the mountain west. This year they
leave the mountain west and are playing a number of teams from the wac. utah
and tcu have been twice each to bcs games. now byu is requesting a notre dame
deal. sorry until you prove you are worthy on the field you should play under
thr army & navy guidelines.
@4:41It is surprising more comments have not been made about your
thesis.BYU goes undefeated and is chosen to play in the National
Championship.It just so happens that the game
"is"/"has been" or is "re-scheduled" for a
Sunday.It probably will not happen (the schedule/reschedule etc.;
not the BYU undefeated season). However, don't put it past the BCS types to
pull out all stops to keep BYU out of the BCS Championship picture.
"This is great news. Win 9 games and have a shot at a BCS game is not too
shabby for little insignificant independent program, eh hedgie?"sammyg.I'm sure you haven't really got you arms around the
situation yet... don't worry it will sink in.Never has an a at large
team gone to a BCS game with 9 wins. bYU will need to go undefeated and get
very very lucky.Because bYU will again start the season unranked
even a perfect season will probably not be enough....based on the 6 bottom
I'd love to see BYU get a better opportunity for a BCS bowl.. just so Utah can
have a hand in keeping them from achieving it when we beat them every year.
BYU needs to prove worthy of the respect given to them. To be given the same
BCS opportunities as Navy and Army. After all Army has TWO national
championships and you know what a power they are!!!
Careful Ute faitful, everytime you take your digs at the Y's playing in the
Vegas bowl, just remember that it wasn't that long ago that UNLV itself ran
roughshod over you, 27-0.Just sayin.
@slim shady 801Huh? You're going to have to repost that in a manner
that makes sense. Other than "Duckhunter" I really don't have a clue
what you were talking about.
Oh please, since we cannot get in with as a conference champion, then maybe we
can do it by scheduling Idaho, Idaho St, New Mexico St, and the other step
sisters of the poor. Let's schedule seven gimmies at home three real teams on
the road and one legitimate team at home and try to get in that way.
Notre Dame is considered "America's Team," like 'em or hate 'em. I'd
much rather try to get where they are than to the poor status the PAC has of
needing to discipline their teams, coaches, and players year after year. The
PAC is just a joke. I love this independence thing and BYU's future is very
bright. Just needing to win 8-9 games is not too tough, but BYU's schedule will
be tougher. Let's just get USU off our schedule and we'll have a real schedule
for the future.
No worries for the folks down in Provo. Given the current and future scheduling
options for the Y, the blue faithful will not have to worry about being in BCS
contention. Even if you play four or five national programs, and perhaps win
all of these games, the balance of schedule played against a depleted WAC will
guarantee that your computer rating will not be high enough, or the coaches
won't vote for you. This is the price of being an independent.
Surely this road was chosen not for National Championships but for exposure.
Don't worry, be happy...stop Ying!
Troll meter is really clicking on this story.Since last year Cougar
Nation has had to put up with all of the BCS horse pucky and now these Ute
trolls are livid that BYU has an in equal to Army and Navy. That's almost
equivalent to their precious BCS / PAC-10.1.1beta invitation.Another "soul crushing" and "deliciously ironic" reality
bite for the little UTE trolls.
Notre Dame's record was built when it was an independant and played only weak
teams in its schedule. Once it went into a real conference, it's record
crumbled. So, why should BYU consider itself any less than Notre Dame?
Dutchman"Go read what the US Naval Dept created at Dartmouth
college with the all americans from all over the country that they brought
there."All-Americans from all over the country? You
grossly exaggerate:In 1943-44, Freshman Dick McGwire of St. Johns
University, along with Freshman center Bob Gale of Cornell, Freshman forward
Harry Leggat of New York University, and Freshman guard Walter Mercer of Fordham
finished the season playing for Dartmouth, where they were sent to undergo
military service as Navy Trainees stationed at Dartmouth in Hanover, NH.Dartmouth's leading scorer, team captain, Junior Audley Brindley, went
on to a "stellar" career with the New York Knicks in 1946, playing in
12 games and scoring a total of 34 points in his NBA career.Dartmouth was a cobbled-together group of players from other teams who had
only played a few games together and were coached by an interim coach.Hardly the juggernaut of All-American all-stars you make them out to be.
@dutchmanOf course no one denies utah won the ncaa tournament in
1944 but claiming it was the national championship is simply untrue. It was a
startup, and secondary, tournament. People have listed alot of other factors
here about it being a deleted talent pool because of the war, utahs season
schedule, etc. To me those don't matter and you simply play who you can play and
beat who you can beat and let the rest take care of itself. But there is no
denying the ncaa tournament was not the premier tournament then and the winner
was not the national champion. The other game was an exibition.
Nothing more.That is just the way it is.
All of you talking about the NIT, 1944, etc. Utah did win an NCAA in 1944 and
the NIT in 1947, BYU won in 1951 and 1966. Oh, by the way for all of you
putting any credence on that tournament, remember one thing, Wyoming won it in
1943. You had better put them on the par with u and the Y.To the pac
people and u. This sounds a lot like the presidental politics we are currently
dealing with. Utah wants the pac to spread the wealth around, and also, don't
keep score, let everyone feel good and give each a trophy and every forth year
let them get to be the champ.With all of the ballihooing for u in
the pac there doesn't seem like many are talking about the u winning, but rather
all the money they get. Go tell your alumn that, we didn't win anything but we
got some money. See how far that goes.
I have no problem at all with BYU being the college football equivalent of Army
and Navy.That's exactly where they belong... independent, non-AQ,
Bluto,Umm.. College Game Day visited Utah with Urban Meyer, check
it.2nd, scoreboards of last season... Who was it that barely made it
above a .5 record?Utah is in a better position for a BCS game
because they have a national champion as their goal, not exposure.
Do we really need to fight over such a silly thing?
Howard S."I have no problem at all with BYU being the college
football equivalent of Army and Navy."But you'll be green with
envy when you watch BYU slowly climbling the ladder to elite status, no longer
fettered by the MTN and Craig Thompson.
Hey GoGetter, remember the crap Utah fans gave Jake Heaps for talking about a
goal of a NC. Seems the Utes aren't the only ones with that goal. Though I have
yet to hear a Ute football player talk about it. In fact, I have yet to hear any
mention of a Conference Championship being talked about by anyone.
@TrueBlue"...no longer fettered by the MTN and Craig
Thompson."*****************************It must have been
tough when the MTN and Craig Thompson caused BYU to lose to Utah State and Utah
last year.Oh and btw, fettering by the MTN and Craig Thompson didn't
stop Utah from climbing the ladder to elite status.
@Cougars1"I have yet to hear any mention of a Conference
Championship being talked about by anyone." ****************************Good teams usually limit their public
comments to "winning the next game".Other teams spend
their off seasons spouting off about quests, national championships, and
Exactly as it should be given they have done nothing in the BCS. byU will need
to beat Texas on the road, Utah at home and every WAC team by 40 to even be
considered for a BCS game. OUCHUtah on the other hand is set up
really well to get to the PAC 12 Champ game and possibly even to the Rose Bowl
in their first year. Even if they lost to byU in Provo, they could still get to
the Rose Bowl. This cannot be said for the Indy team in Provo, if they lost to
Utah, their season is as good as over.It has to really hurt to think
about it that way. Oh well!
Not true Howard. The Oklahomas, Ohio States, Floridas, Oregons, Auburns, etc.
make no bones about the fact that their goal is to win the NC every year. Then
they go out a game at a time and play football. TCU, on an ESPN special even
showed the camera man their chart with their goals for the year, and a NC was at
the top of the pyramid. When Utah wins a NC, you'll understand and your
expectations will be such. Until then, go ahead and continue being content with
second place. Having a stated goal of winning a NC is not arrogant, it is what
some teams do every year, but it does not translate into arrogance or stupidity
as some Utah fans would like you to believe. Likewise, there is nothing wrong
with keeping the team goals within the team and just getting it done like Whitt.
Good luck in the PAC12.
utahcountyute, you are right but it does not hurt to think about. I am very
happy with being Indy, even if they lose a game and a chance at a BCS game.
Finish in the top 25 and it will be a successful season. At least I don't have
to tune in to the mtn. to watch BYU or Utah. Happy days.
Anyone who thinks a season is as "good as over" just because they lose
a game here or there is a crummy fan, an extremely poor sport, and really needs
a worthwhile hobby other than living vicariously through athletes on TV. You don't have to go undefeated or win the national championship to have
an enjoyable season and provide competitive entertainment to your fans.
@ Cougars1Keep dreaming about that NC my friend.Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Oregon, Auburn, TCU... all BCS teams.Notice any difference with BYU?Your last NC was so long ago as to
be irrelevant in the BCS era of college football.No independent,
non-AQ, mid-major team that has had one undefeated season in its history is ever
going to win an NC.Keep talking NC though... it just makes you look
silly.But, I'm okay with that.
Howard, "Your last NC was so long ago as to be irrelevant in the BCS era of
college football." BYU's NC was the REASON the BCS was established. The
only mid-major in the modern era of football to win a NC. Too bad you are either
too young to remember, or you had your head in the sand like most Utah fans
until 2004. "No independent, non-AQ, mid-major team that has
had one undefeated season in its history is ever going to win an NC."
That's pretty close to what Bryant Gumbel said in 1984 just months before BYU
proved him wrong. See, that's what's wrong with Utah fans; they don't know how
to dream. "Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Oregon, Auburn,
TCU... all BCS teams.Notice any difference with BYU?"How about something similar....they have all won a NC. FYI, TCU was a member
of a major conference when they won theirs(SWC).I think you are the one
making yourself look silly Howard.
@Cougars125 years ago is NOT the modern era of college football.
The BCS is the modern era, and the BCS has rejected BYU and their 25 year old
NC.You are correct though that the BCS was created because of BYU's
1984 NC. It was created to make sure no mid-major school would ever win it
again.You keep dreaming though. It will help you through the tough
times as Utah joins the big leagues and BYU continues to lose ground as an
independent, non-AQ, mid-major... just like Army and Navy
re: Cosmo's Cousin | 11:55 a.m. April 22, 2011 "Attorney
General Shurtleff should demand special status for BYU as part of the plea deal
against the illegal BCS."BYU isn't a state owned school. Think
@Howard S.BYU finishes in the Top 10 or 12, believe Me and ESPN,
they will play in a BCS Bowl.Their History, Legacy, Brand and Cache
are worth Millions on their own merit, Utah has No Legacy, nor Elite Status.Your new definition of Modern Era is laughable. As is your thinking 2
BCS bowls makes U elite. Three Conference Championships in 50 years makes you
Washington State or Vanderbilt.The U played in a BCS bowl in 2004
and '08. So did 9 other Teams those years.So do 10 every year.But only One Team Per Year, is granted the "National
Championship".BYU was a Unanimus #1 selection by the UPI-coaches and
AP writers, and 4 other organizations.There are 6 '84National
Championship trophies in BYU's Legacy Hall, including the Waterford Chrystal
Trophy. You can also see a Heisman, Outlands, Davey Obrien's, Sammy Baugh's and
Doak Walker trophies. There is a Jim Thorpe Super Bowl MVP and NFL MVP Trophies.
There have been 16 Consensus All-Americans in Football at CougarTowne, Utah....1. 58 All-Americans all told at BYU.Elite
schools develop over Generations, not 2 good years in a Decade.
When BYU is on National TV for every game, and with ESPN at it's back as well as
Utah being nowhere to be seen, the mighty Utes-aka the Washington Generals of
the Pac 10.02, may then realize that U are all blather and no substance.What a wonderful thing it will be when the Self-Inflated Utes have it
all come back around. 2004 and '08 were your salad days, enjoy the memories,
it's all you'll have.Since your self inflated invite to the Pac-10,
your worth has risen so far that 1-You took the 5th choice for a b-ball
coach, 2- Players are leaving the B-ball team in droves. 3-Even the
President of your University went to a real Pac 10 school, Washington, and your
Football team can't exist without former BYU guys.Oh please....
Howard S., Chris B, and Hedgie, join us all back here in about 8 months. It's all downhill from here for U.
Bluto;If that "cache" had any relevance at all in the BCS
era of college football, BYU would be a member of a power conference instead of
second tier programming on the ESPN Friday night special.But as you
are painfully aware no power conference wanted BYU.Oh, and in 8
months Utah will still be in the PAC 12 power conference and BYU will still be
the BCS equivalent of Army and Navy.
@ Howard S. I agree w/ most everything you've posted. Equating Army
& Navy with BYU is an insult to the Service Academies.There is
no sense of entitlement, no yearning for legitmacy, no need to suck up to a
major network, no chasing the almighty dollar @ Annapolis or West Point. This college football fan lives each season for the Army/Navy game, The
Iron Bowl (all SEC football really), & PAC games (nothing caps off a
saturday like the USC, Az St, UAz, UCLA, or Oregon cheerleaders)
Howard, no offense, but you are putting way too much into an illegal system that
will be gone within 10 years. I find it interesting how hypocritical Utah fans
can be over this whole BCS nonsense. Just a over 2 years ago they were
complaining about how unfair the system was that they were not even given a
chance to prove their worth as a NC. It's a joke of a system that evolves around
greed; and yet here you are touting it as the end all be all to college
football. And then when you bring it up in terms of basketball, you
all look even more foolish; since the BCS has nothing to do with basketball.BYU and it's fans would have loved an invite by the PAC; it didn't
happen, and so we are more than happy to have gotten out of the MWC to be where
we are now. Congratulations on the PAC invite. News flash, BYU was left out of
the PAC because it is a private religious institution; not because their
accomplishments are irrelevant. You have proven BYU's relevance by simply being
obsessed with BYU.
@Cougars1 This is great. While politely seeking not to offend Utah
fans he/she calls them hypocritical.He/she thinks the BCS is
illegal, doomed to fail, a joke, and based on greed.Yet, he/she also
thinks BYU fans "would have loved an invite by the PAC..."The funny thing is watching Cougar fans twist around the fact that they
desperately seek the acceptance of the BCS, whose values they despise.And Utah fans are the hypocritical ones???So, Cougars1, If the PAC
rejected BYU because of their private religious status, why did the BIG 12
reject the Cougars?
@HowardNobody holds up bottomfeeders of the so called "power
conferences" as anything but that, bottomfeeders. The Washington Genereals,
fillers, fodder, so to speak.The U is not elevated to any esteemed
status just by joining the Pac 10.02In fact, the only decent decade in the
history of Utah football will never again be matched.Boise State
will still outshine the U. As will San Diego St. and Utah and 5-6 and 6-6
seasons will again be the norm. It's Tom Lovat time uties.The U will
soon take their rightful place among the "perpetual losers" programs
of Conferences.Nobody shudders when Vanderbilt, Rutgers, Wake
Forest, Duke, Iowa State, Baylor, Washington State, etc. and now Utah, is
mentioned.BYU will be "Seen", win or lose, on National TV
every week. Not on TierTtwo, but Tier-One. I don't think you even know the
definitions between the two. Every major program plays games on week nights.So, when BYU is still finishing in the Top 25, having every kid in
America knowing where Provo is, thank you ESPN, then u just cuddle up with your
PAC 10.02 membership.Nobody else will notice.
@BlutoBluto my friend, you spend a lot of time talking about what
you think will happen, what you hope will happen, and what your wish to
happen.You seem to completely ignore what has happened... Utah was
in fact invited to join the big boys of college football... and BYU is in fact
slated to make regular appearances as ESPN's Friday night special.You know Friday night... when good high school players actually play football
instead of watching ESPN's second tier programming.