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What famous people have said about Mormons

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  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    April 14, 2011 5:31 a.m.

    We are controversial for many reasons including the fact we are a relatively new faith and tend to stick to our own (despite appeals by many of our leaders). Too many of you congregate out in Utah - we need you to move out in the rest of the world and be the salt of the earth.

    I was intrigued by the first comment in the headline about "No other faith...). The Jews obviously have a long history of misunderstanding, persecution and genocide to which we LDS have nothing to compare. The Muslims are greatly misunderstood and many harbor a generalized prejudice towards them.

    I find a general laziness in the media (going back beyond Mark Twain) to really find out what people of faith are like without resorting to the sensational just to sell paper. The stories today about the LDS carry many of the same stereotypes that have been around for 190 years, whereas the people who get to know us have a more favorable opinion. We need to do more to get out in the world, be on our best behavior and be "anxiously engaged" in good causes. As we do this, the stereotypes will fade.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    April 14, 2011 6:35 a.m.

    I would generally agree with all these positive comments about Mormons.

    However, there was certainly some "cherry picking" going on in the article.

  • Chachi Charlottesville, VA
    April 14, 2011 6:36 a.m.

    I think this article illustrates a problem Mormons have:

    We're too interested in ourselves. Our ears perk up whenever we're in the news, or at any sign of the Church gaining recognition. We have an inflated sense both of our impact on the world and of the general public's misunderstanding of us.

    "Has any religious community been the subject of more curiosity, controversy or misunderstanding than the Latter-day Saints?" Um, yes. How about Scientology, Freemasonry (a religious community if not a religion), or Islam? In the past, Jews, Catholics, and even Protestants have been the subject of much misunderstanding and controversy in the communities in which they were the minority. Mormons suffered an extermination order against them at one point, but each one of those groups has actually been the subject of wars of extermination.

    We would do well to talk to ourselves about ourselves a little less, and learn about other religious traditions and beliefs.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:29 a.m.

    Chachi,

    You are right. This may be called ego-centric, or ethnocentric, or narcissistic, or self-absorbtion, or self-centeredness, or self-promoting.

    Call it what you will, it permeates everything Mormons do and gives the "plastic" superficial-ness to their personas and relationships.

    I have always said I find my relationships with Mormons, MLM-ers, and salespeople to be identical, and anything but genuine.

  • open minded non believer salt lake city, utah
    April 14, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    I would have to disagree with some of the positive things said. Some mormons I have met have been nice and true to their word but a majority of others have acted in most vindictive ways. Very clickish and judgemental towards other people who dont have the same beliefs.

  • bwoods Tucson, AZ
    April 14, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    I generally disagree with every negative comment so far posted.

    I respond to Charles in saying that who cares what those "frank" opinions--we've already heard them. What's news is the good opinions, what we hardly hear. (Thus this IS a cherry picking article.)

    I'm sorry that Vanka has experienced "plastic" relationships with Mormons--my experiences are vastly different.

    Chachi, I do not think there is anything wrong with the fascination about ourselves. First, it is normal. Anyone who is part of any kind of group will pick up on news about that group. Second, it is always interesting to see how one's group is covered in the media.

    Also, I totally disagree with your assessment that "We have an inflated sense both of our impact on the world and of the general public's misunderstanding of us." We have an astounding impact on the world. Some are news headline stuff, but most of the impact comes in influence with individuals and communities. Else why have a true church?!!! And as a convert, I will tell you that we definitely do not have an inflated idea of misunderstandings about the church. It is rampant.

  • Timothy Benton City, WA
    April 14, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    Leave it to a poet to ignore the obvious and use rose-colored observation in stating an opinion.. I do not think that the Fancher party would agree with the statement that overland travelers were greeted with hospitality and warmth from the early Mormons residing in Utah at that time..As a matter of fact church members,during part of that time,were forbidden to sell goods to or trade with Gentiles under penalty of excommunication or death..Moreover,Brigham did indeed promise a warm welcome to to Army personnel and officials sent from Washington to establish a goverment free from the theocracy that reined for far too long in Salt Lake City..It was the warmth of hot lead coursing through ones body..As JoeBlow has pointed out,there was an enormous amount of out of context quotes in this article that beg to be pointed out,and should be..I mean,do most church members really believe that the early church appeared as it does now,with platitudes raining down about their greatness? If so,some people need to go to a library and do some historical fact-checking..

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    April 14, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    With all of the negative things said about Mormons in the media or out in the community, I found this article refleshingly uplifting, and the fact that it cherry picked doesn't bother me at all. Is it so bad that the Deseret News would publish something positive once in a while? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that sometimes people have a favorable opinion about the church or a particular aspect of it? For every one positive article about the church, there will be 100 more that are negative. Can't you just let us have this one?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Story:
    *Coming Out: The story of an openly gay athlete By Nancy Armour AP Published by DSNews 04/09/2011

    Comments:
    Oh goody goody, now when do we get to embrace the pedophile, the alcoholic, the closet litterer, and nose picker.
    - HaHaHaHa | 1:37 p.m. April 11, 2011

    This post has since been removed by the Moderator. Thank you.
    As, it compares an entire group to pedophiles.

    I do not pretend to know the religious background of the poster OR the moderator but these types of comments are common.

    And yet, was removed when the question of civility in the discussion was brough up.

    Say what you will, as with everything, there are good AND bad with any group.

    I have found majority of LDS members to be polite and good. While the choices of some of their leadership directly affect me and those I know, there is a tiny but growing majority I see that treats others as they themselves want to be treated.

    While it is obvious I do not agree with EVERYTHING the LDS church stands for...

    I am optimistic, as there is a growing number of LDS I CAN agree with.

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    April 14, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    The most successful salesman are those who "believe in there product".
    With this product there is no commission, but there is a sales goal.
    Keep selling my mormon family, the product is self sustaining, and pays itself forward.....

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    April 14, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    The plastic persona problem is real, but much of that can be attributed to the fact that many people just aren't used to people being polite or bold enough to share their beliefs with them. I think people get so caught up in being "real" sometimes, that they don't believe it's actually possible to have a fully-functioning happy family, so when they see it, they naturally call it fake. They don't see how anything "real" could be positive at the same time, because their concept of what's real is so negative. That's not to say that all LDS people have fully-functioning families, but many genuinely do. It really is that good. What I don't understand is why some people feel compelled to tear it down.

  • friedeggonAZstreets Glendale, AZ
    April 14, 2011 10:35 a.m.

    @bwoods..."Also, I totally disagree with your assessment that "We have an inflated sense both of our impact on the world and of the general public's misunderstanding of us." We have an astounding impact on the world. Some are news headline stuff, but most of the impact comes in influence with individuals and communities. Else why have a true church?!!! And as a convert, I will tell you that we definitely do not have an inflated idea of misunderstandings about the church. It is rampant."

    Thank you for this point. Exactly, "Else why have a true church?"

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    April 14, 2011 10:35 a.m.

    Mark Twain was quoted here to give a small impression of objectivity. Most of the other quotes were the obligatory post-platitudes that traveling dignitaries give in public settings to maintain diplomacy. "uh...those Mormons sure seem like good people, and their religion is admirable as an American contrivance...I mean...specimen...of frontier theology". In other words, it's probably not a good idea to read too much into diplomatic compliments.

    And yes, in the world of Mormonism, we are the most curious people - and everyone wants to know about us. In the actual world, that is far less true.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    April 14, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    I know, I know....
    If one chooses to live in Utah, one must deal with the "This is the way people should live" Mormon Majority way of life, and the "We are better than the rest of you" attitudes.
    If one should not enjoy their unique environment, one is encouraged to move out of the state.
    Rather than try to introduce diversity, or say something Mormon's would consider negative about their culture, the philosophy of most "outsiders" or "Gentiles" is to keep quiet.

  • LOL holladay, utah
    April 14, 2011 10:53 a.m.

    A lot of my friends and some relatives are LDS. I have noticed there are clearly different levels/types of LDS people ranging from "Temple Worthy" to "Non Temple Worthy making it impossible to stereotype then entire group.
    For the most part, the LDS I am familiar with are good people who just happen to live in a time where their religious leaders are more political than they are spiritual.
    And that comes right from the horses mouth.

  • LOL holladay, utah
    April 14, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    Mormons have to find new ways to set themselves apart. Perhaps less politics and more spirituality. (See California and gay marriage)

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 14, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    Of course deseretnews cherrypicks. They do it with the comments too. I posted on a mormon topic about some less than known facts about the church and the comment was denied! I guess as the church filters and edits its own history, so does the deseretnews. You lose credibility by 'shielding' people from the facts. Cool story though anyways.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:45 a.m.

    "Story:
    *Coming Out: The story of an openly gay athlete By Nancy Armour AP Published by DSNews 04/09/2011

    Comments:
    Oh goody goody, now when do we get to embrace the pedophile, the alcoholic, the closet litterer, and nose picker.
    - HaHaHaHa | 1:37 p.m. April 11, 2011

    This post has since been removed by the Moderator. Thank you.
    As, it compares an entire group to pedophiles.

    I do not pretend to know the religious background of the poster OR the moderator but these types of comments are common."

    No - gays arent trying to shove their gayness in everyone's face. Clearly we're imagining this. This article had so much to do with the gays it was a very applicable point to bring up the "persecution" the gays face again.

    I don't see the Mormons(of which I'm not) making all articles that have nothing to with Mormons about the Mormons

    I don't see heterosexuals(which I absolutely am) making all articles that have nothing to do with heterosexuality about heterosexuals.

    I don't see Catholics(which I am) making all articles that have nothing to do with Catholics about Catholics.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    'I don't see the Mormons(of which I'm not) making all articles that have nothing to with Mormons about the Mormons' - Chris B | 11:45 a.m.

    Chris,

    If I only spoke about homosexuals, that would make sense. But if you read the rest, you will notice I spoke about my interactions with LDS members.

    The horror!

    If you don't want the public, to read or interact with the information you present...
    don't make it availible to the public.

    As for: 'Mormons making all articles that have nothing to with Mormons about the Mormons.'

    Answer one, simple question.

    Who owns the DSNews?

    Good day to you. :)

  • Idaho Coug Meridian, Idaho
    April 14, 2011 11:59 a.m.

    I have been LDS my whole life. There is so much I love about my LDS heritage and culture. But throughout adulthood I have been able to take a more objective view of the LDS culture and beliefs. My work requires a lot of travel and as a result the vast majority of my friends and peers are non-LDS allowing my to see my LDS culture through the eyes of others.

    My conclusion is that we LDS do some wonderful things in our own homes, wards, neighborhoods and communities. We are a charitable people who genuinely care about the temporal and spiritual well-being of others. In addition, we believe some things that outsiders see as very strange and even some active LDS struggle to either wrap their heads around or "put on the shelf" in spriritual self-preservation. Some LDS-history is simply difficult to reframe in a positive way.

    I think, like most cultures, belief-systems and families, we are a mixture of both positive and negative. We can be wonderful, admirable, and sincere. But also insular, defensive, robotically obedient, and a bit strange in some of our beliefs/rituals.

    But I truly love being LDS.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    April 14, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    Vanka,

    How would the people in those "plastic relationships" describe THEIR relationship with you? If everyone you know is plastic, it could either be ALL of them are that way (highly improbable) or you are merely successful in finding the plastic ones out there.

    I'll bet you have some deep, fun Mormon friends somewhere...

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    April 14, 2011 12:12 p.m.

    Idaho Coug:

    I think you make some excellent points. Is there anything to be admired about LDS people and our cultures? Sure there is. Are we unique? Of course we are? Are we good? I can find many reasons to say yes. Are we "pure"? No. Are we the most absolutely unique, interesting, influential, good, family oriented, industrious, etc, people who have ever lived or that now live? No. We are like every other culture in the world - we bring some things to the table, we take some thing's from the table, and ultimately contribute a small piece to the fabric of human culture. Independently however, we are fairly inconsequential to the whole - we just happen to think that the world revolves around us because from where we stand it appears to.

  • Linus Bountiful, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    Religious persecution was intense during the life of Joseph Smith, Jr., the founding prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church was driven from New York to Ohio to Missouri to Illinois, where Joseph Smith was murdered, before the Latter-day Saint's Exodus to Utah. Left behind along this long, arduous, faith-testing trail were those who could not endure. Only those "Pioneers" whose commitment and faith and character were strong enough remained "Saints."

    Some who become acquainted with us see these positive attributes in most of the descendants of those "Mormon Pioneers." Some do not like what they see. That is OK. They are not required to appreciate our values. We like us! We also like our religious neighbors, especially those who share our love for our Savior, Jesus Christ. If you are not comfortable in our communities, we are very sorry; but we think that we, the descendants of the Pioneers, have a right to be comfortable in our communities. Thank you.

  • hoping Holladay, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:27 p.m.

    It is interesting to note how people complain about others interpretations or bias and turn around and expose their own bias. We are all so "human." I am hoping that one day the world will learn to separate "gospel" from "church", and that applies to "LDS" as well as "Gentiles."

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    "Answer one, simple question.

    Who owns the DSNews?"

    I'd be happy to - the Mormons.

    Now please answer me a few questions:

    What color is the sun?

    What state is New York City located in?

    Do Brazilians like soccer?

    Some people struggle with simple concepts.

    My point remains clear.

    Not all groups continually force their beliefs on others.

    My examples:

    Mormons don't make all articles that have nothing to do with the Mormons about the Mormons.

    Heterosexuals don't make all articles that have nothing to do with heterosexuality about heterosexuals.

    Even the des news(owned by the Mormons) doens't make every article about the Mormons.

    My example?

    The sports section

    The entertainment section

    The Life section

    Movies Section

    Multimedia section

    World and Nation section

    Opinion Section

    Obituaries Section

    Yes - there is a Mormon section. Section - not every single article

    There IS a group who does nothing but think about how they can force their lifestyles on the rest of us.

    Thanks you Mormons for not turning every single article into what you belief and why everyone must accept what you believe.

    I dont believe what the Mormons do, and I'm glad they give it a rest

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    April 14, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    So a few people say a some kind words about Mormons - ok, so what's the big deal. Just say thank you, and forget about it.

    And to those apostate haters with a burr under their saddle, or the non-apostate haters with the same burr, why does it get under your skin so bad?

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:51 p.m.

    eastcoastcoug,

    You observed "If everyone you know is plastic, it could either be ALL of them are that way (highly improbable) or you are merely successful in finding the plastic ones out there. I'll bet you have some deep, fun Mormon friends somewhere."

    I have close LDS friends with genuine relationships, but they are the exception, not the rule. And their genuineness is despite their religion, not because of it. Once in a while, after General Conference, or a Stake push for "missionary work", they get into a bit of a funk and become salespersons - the veneer goes up.

    I have the same experience with MLMs. I have had several good friends who got involved in MLMs and turned into the biggest jerks you can imagine.

    The doctrines (of religion and MLM) are what get in the way of genuine relationships. When a person's "friendship" becomes a means to a missionary end, the "plastic" veneer comes out, the "performance" (set a good example) begins, and reality fades into the background.

    A few expletives and confrontation from me, and my genuine LDS friends snap out of it. One of them recently "snapped out of" the Church. Good man.

  • freedomfighter American Fork, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    "Has any religious community been the subject of more curiosity, controversy or misunderstanding than the Latter-day Saints?"

    Uhm, yeah? I'm not saying we haven't had our share in controversy-- but you would have to have no knowledge of history or religion at all to make a comment like that.

    For centuries, wars upon wars have been fought because of misunderstandings and prejudices within Catholocism, Islam, Judaism, Protestantism, and Hinduism! To assume that a 181 yr old church has faced the same level of conflict as these religions have is very ego-centric.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 14, 2011 12:59 p.m.

    I happen to agree with Chris on this. If you don't like reading about something then don't read it. Don't read it, then complain about having had to read it. I don't like the 'arts' section so I don't read it. I could care less that others like it. Utah is a mormon state, founded by mormons and settled by mormons. What would you expect?

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 14, 2011 1:07 p.m.

    Tom - not all people who don't see eye to eye with the church are apostate or haters. People within the church often have different views on even church or doctrinal related issues. Lets not label anybody apostate or haters as it is a generalization of people who don't agree with what you do.

  • LOL holladay, utah
    April 14, 2011 1:24 p.m.

    There are free-spirits and there are Mormons.
    It's what makes the world go 'round.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:27 p.m.

    'Utah is a mormon state, founded by mormons and settled by mormons.' - Brahmabull | 12:59 p.m.

    In America.

    Utah is a mormon state, founded by mormons and settled by mormons...

    in America.

    I've heard the 'well, you should follow the majority, since it's the majority.'

    Sure.

    But that is a majority...in Utah.

    Not the country.

    And certianlly, not the world.

    To date, there are more Catholics and Mulsim members than Mormons.

    If I used the same 'America is a Christian nation' as an argument for Mormons to become christian, it would sound foolish.

    And yet, in Utah I am not supposed to have a view besides Mormon?

    That is foolish logic.

    If you don't want differing views, don't invite others who may actually HAVE a differing view into the discussion...

    and then complain about 'persecution.'

    The title was: 'What famous people have said about Mormons.'

    While I never want to be famous, I said good things about LDS members.

    And many choose to ignore that.

    If you want to feel persecuted because I differ in view, I cannot help you.

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    April 14, 2011 1:40 p.m.

    Brahmabull - my comment did not label "all people who don't see eye to eye" as apostates or haters.

    You missed my point.

    Can't you see, it is obvious from the various comments, a large percentage of those commenting have an itch under their skin because of the "cherry picking" article that was written, which (article) happens to say all positive things about Mormons.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 14, 2011 1:54 p.m.

    Pagan - You seem to have trouble following what I was saying. I don't have a problem with other peoples views at all. I am not saying to 'follow the majority' or anything else. I don't care what you or anybody else do, as long as it doesn't affect me and I expect the same. All I was saying is the REALITY is that it is a mormon state, settled by mormons and so when you read the mormon-owned newspaper you will get mormon related stories. It is part of the history of this place. There is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is asking you to convert to mormonism (assuming that you aren't). I don't like peoples beliefs being pushed on me either, but if you live here the majority of the culture is mormon. You will be exposed to it one way or another. I am not offended at anything you wrote, and you shouldn't be either aat my posts. You are right - in the rest of the world there aren't many mormons, but you live in Utah not in another part of the world so get used to it.

  • Disco Vega MoTown, CA
    April 14, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    Maybe, just maybe, God acts more plastic than not...thus mormon's are perceived as being plastic...maybe if the entire world acted more plastic, there would be less violence, more love, more charity, and people would be happier.

    Being plastic then, must be good, so what's the problem?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:14 p.m.

    'You are right - in the rest of the world there aren't many mormons, but you live in Utah not in another part of the world so get used to it.' - Brahmabull | 1:54 p.m.

    And you live in America.

    In the world.

    I guess it's a 'local view' vs. a 'global view' situation Brahmabull.

    I recognize that I live in Utah. And I have lived here for over 10yrs. To tell me to 'get used to it' is foolish.

    What makes you think I haven't?

    To imply somehow that I'm not 'used' to Utah but I still need to have the same 'mainstream' view to support the majority here is also foolish.

    Going back to my 'America is a Christian nataion' comment. Following your logic, I should adhere to the whims of the majority, because there are more of them.

    Of course, you realize the futility of this logic.

    i.e. If there are 2 of 'x' and that is more than 1 of 'y', we should all be 'x'.

    But this country protects the minority as well.

    Example: Mormons!

    A majority in Utah, not America.

    Not upset. Just different view.

    Good day.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Dear Vanka. When you point your finger at other people you must understand there are 3 pointing back at you. It takes two to socialize. It cannot be done alone. I find it amazing that you live in Provo and continue to live there, when you have such a low esteem of "everyone" around you.

    Chachi, it would be nice if others did the same thing. Find out what we believe and who we are. Too much name calling without finding out the real facts. Others claim we do not believe in Jesus Christ is hilarious. They have made a statement without checking their facts.

  • Gentile brookings, SD
    April 14, 2011 3:05 p.m.

    I have always found Mormons to be like Baptists, and vice-versa. So much in common; perhaps that is why they fight. I don't know.

  • bigv56 Cottonwood, CA
    April 14, 2011 4:14 p.m.

    who cares? we don't need their opinion to validate our beliefs. I hope they had a favorable view , but it doesn't affect me in any way.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    April 14, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    "When you point your finger at other people you must understand there are 3 pointing back at you."

    Well, if that isn't a rebuttall - nothing is!

    "Others claim we do not believe in Jesus Christ is hilarious. They have made a statement without checking their facts."

    Or you issued a knee-jerk response before checking yours. The claim that Mormons "don't believe in Christ" is an outgrowth of the fundamental distinction between the God-head, and the Holy Trinity. Understanding this distinction, both parties would be better to rephrase the argument to say "Mormons and traditional Christians have distinctly different beliefs as to the nature and identity of Christ. Both groups share a general concensus on the historical assertions on Christs ministry, as reported in the New Testament - But they differ on the interpretations of his alleged identity as a distinct personage from God the Father".

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    April 14, 2011 5:29 p.m.

    Mormons used to be pretty accepting, from my perspective, of being different and apart. Now they seem to navel gaze and fret every nuance of what others say. I figure it's because the rebranding of the church is designed to set it up as absolutely mainstream, because that's where the political power is.

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    April 14, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    One of my favorite famous people quotes....

    Newsweek: Do you think a Mormon is a Christian?
    Jimmy Carter: Yes, I do. I have a cousin who is a Mormon and she married one of the Marriott family. I dont know anyone whos more devout in their faith than she and her family. I admire them very much.

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    April 14, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    Gentile | 3:05 p.m. April 14, 2011
    "I have always found Mormons to be like Baptists, and vice-versa. So much in common; perhaps that is why they fight."
    My Dad was raised Baptists I must say I agree with you. The two biggest differences between him and I were that he believed the Godhead was two distinct beings (Father and Son, Holly Ghost was Jesus as well) and that LDS were permitted to dance.

  • donn layton, Ut
    April 14, 2011 7:07 p.m.

    C.S. Lewis, The Book of Mormon was equal to other human work that relied on source text from the KJV.

    If Christianity was something we were making up, of course we would make it easier. But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity, with people who are inventing religions [JS]. How could we? We are dealing with fact. Of course anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about." The three personal God Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis gives some other analogies of the Tri(3) Unity.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    April 14, 2011 7:33 p.m.

    Just a sidenote, when to Mormons settled Utah, the area was still part of Mexico. It changed a couple of years later.

  • Livingstone Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:45 p.m.

    So many people here in Utah hate Mormons. I wish the church would do more reaching out and ecumenical work with the other faiths and non-faith oriented organizations. A lot of people see it as a big bully, and I hope things can change.

  • Uncle Charles Where freedom and liberty reign, utah
    April 14, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    Livingstone said, " I wish the church would do more reaching out and ecumenical work with the other faiths and non-faith oriented organizations"

    You need to get out the bubble that is Orem. The church does this all over the world all the time. It appears that you don't know about it.

    As for the rest, who cares what the knuckleheads like the LDS bashers on here say about the gospel or church.

    There were bashers in the beginning and I don't see that changing. The haters will hate and we just need to correct or ignore them.

    It's interesting to see how the exception becomes the rule for many LDS haters.

    To each their own. The stone is still rolling and always will....

  • utahman in missouri Lee\'s Summit, MO
    April 14, 2011 9:30 p.m.

    chachi - you are right on the money. It would be hard to find an organization that is so paranoid about what others think of themselves - it's very amusing. I believe it comes down to self validation at all levels - if others have something good to say about the LDS faith then it becomes easier to have faith - abeit blind faith in the church. But most LDS members don't understand this concept. Until the majority of LDS members feel good "in their own skin" and don't need confirmation through how others view the church then articles akin to this one will pop up all of the time.

    Think about it - why should one care about what "famous people" have said about the LDS church? However, if an article is to be written about what famous people have said it should at least contain both sides of the coin for it to be proper journalism - but this would mitigate the "self validiation" agenda the Dnews and LDS church need to promote.

  • JRJ Pocatello, ID
    April 14, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    Has anyone else noticed that most of this makes no sense?

  • nayajja` Ephraim, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:01 p.m.

    JRJ, yes, I noticed that most of this makes no sense. But how could it, given the beginning quote from Horace Greeley in the article:

    I do not believe there was ever a religion whereof the great mass of the adherents were not honest and sincere.

    Huh? I read this half a dozen times trying to sort out the double negatives, and I still can't decide if he is saying the great mass of us Mormons are dishonest and insincere or honest and sincere--or maybe he is not even talking about Mormons, but just about religions in general ???

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:10 p.m.

    "You need to get out the bubble that is Orem. The church does this all over the world all the time [reaching out]. It appears that you don't know about it.

    As for the rest, who cares what the knuckleheads like the LDS bashers on here say about the gospel or church."

    Hey, there you go Uncle Charles, that's the kinda reaching out we're talking about.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    April 15, 2011 6:23 a.m.

    Interesting comments from the readers. At first I was gong to refrain, but then I decided to note one thing about us I've noticed. We want to be liked by the world. We are insecure about ourselves in a way, an almost Sally Field "You like me! You really like me!" I've seen this insecurity, this need to be liked in so many ways over the years. I wonder why Mormons are like that.

  • Yorkshire City, Ut
    April 15, 2011 7:46 a.m.

    What about what Mormons say about famous people??

    I for one have a few things to say about Mark Twain etc

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    April 15, 2011 7:51 a.m.

    Ah, let's have a Mike Huckabee quote or two. It would serve to remind us of the high regard he holds for the Mormon people and help him to get every vote he deserves from Mormons.

    (Extract tongue from cheek)

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    April 15, 2011 8:27 a.m.

    I am certainly no person of notoriety, but when I was growing up in my town in L.A. county, all the Mormons I personally knew, eventually peaked my curiosity into investigating and joining the church.
    This was also due to the collective integrity of each individual Latter Day Saint I came in contact with.
    Ironically, the person who sparked my interest in reading the Book of Mormon, was an extremely inactive and wild member of the church, who, (37 years ago), openly admitted to me that he was "not the best Mormon in the world", but that if I read the B of M, and really pray about it, I would know it was the word of God. I read it and got my testimony very quickly, and joined.
    That fellow was the best missionary, because he spoke out, in spite of his admitted reputation as a "bad example". May we all get the courage to speak out more often, to our neighbors and friends.

    P.S., This young man eventually repented and is doing just fine.

  • carminaburana Provo, UT
    April 15, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    A previous quote stated, there is a difference between"gospel" and "church". They are not interchangeable. I am Mormon and I had associations with all kinds of mormons just like most of you. The gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect and nothing else, not even the church organization or it's members. I grew up in South America, the mormons are a tiny minority, people are used to mingle with other religions on a daily basis. Then you come to Utah and Mormons are the "Law of the land", quite disturbing. My father and I can't talk politics because I am not republican (the 11 th commandment). I like the quotes, just don't let it get to your head that we are "all that". Some of us have a long way to go....

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    I hear LDS members distinguish between the truth of "the gospel" and the fallibility of the Church organization and its people all the time.

    You think this is a good argument?

    This distinction means it is not only possible, but preferable, to be loyal to "the gospel" rather than, or even without, the Church and the people. In other words, it means being a member of the Church - having one's name on the roles of the LDS congregations - is meaningless.

    It means any "testimony" declaring "the Church is true" is fundamentally misguided and false. It ultimately means that the Baptists and Evangelicals are right.

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    April 15, 2011 10:20 a.m.

    nayajja`, perhaps context will help....

    Greely: Do I regard the great body of these Mormons as knaves and hypocrites? Assuredly not. I DO NOT BELEIVE THERE WAS EVER A RELIGION WHEREOF THE GREAT MASS OF THE ADHERENTS WERE NOT HONEST AND SINCERE. Hypocrites and knaves there are in all sects; it is quite possible that some of the magnates of the Mormon Church regard this so-called religion (with all others) as a contrivance for the enslavement and fleecing of the many, and the aggrandizement of the few; but I cannot believe that a sect, so considerable and so vigorous as the Mormon, was ever founded in conscious imposture, or built up on any other basis than that of earnest conviction. If the projector and two or three of his chief confederates are knaves, the great body of their followers were dupes.
    ============

    Google search on the short single sentence to find source and more of his quote.

    I think he believes most Mormons are honest and sincere.

    I think he does not believe we are dupes, thus our original leaders are not knaves.

    Greely is pretty cryptic in his statements.

  • katt221 Farmington, Utah
    April 15, 2011 11:18 a.m.

    I think that Mormons are interested in media coverage about Mormons because of our belief in preaching the gospel to all the world. Good media coverage can help in that effort. If there are misconceptions or something erroneous in a story, then it can hinder, and we need to try to correct or explain the misconception.

    Also, someone said that in America Christians are the majority, therefore Mormons are a minority. Mormons ARE Christians.

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    April 15, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    katt221: Also, someone said that in America Christians are the majority, therefore Mormons are a minority. Mormons ARE Christians.
    ==========================
    May I add, that amongst the majority Christians, we are one of largest (majority) Christian denominations after the Catholics and one/two others.

  • Independent Henderson, NV
    April 15, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    "I wish the church would do more reaching out and ecumenical work with the other faiths and non-faith oriented organizations."

    They do. But just how far can you reach out before it starts looking like you're tooting your own horn or trying to get your hands into everything? You reach out too much and people start saying "The Mormons think they can run everything" or "stay away from that organization, because the Mormons are their largest contributor."

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 15, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    "I hear LDS members distinguish between the truth of "the gospel" and the fallibility of the Church organization and its people all the time.

    You think this is a good argument?"

    Yes, because you're guaranteed to lose a debate over whether or not the church organization can be fallible or not if you don't go that route.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    April 15, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    Why is the LDS church and its members so worried about what others think of them? I find it sad that so much emphasis is placed on looking good and "spin" and tooting your own horn. Such an attitude from the church leadership and its paper perpetuates within the membership a need to keep up appearances which is something I thought that Jesus taught against when speaking of the hypocrites in the Bible.

  • mtgregson Holladay, UT
    April 15, 2011 5:53 p.m.

    Reading these comments really make me laugh sometimes. So many naive people making comments about what they think are 'absolutes' that generalize all of the Latter-day Saints. You people that think you really know what those of us 'mormons' who truly believe, actually believe, have you actually read the book of mormon? Actually have you even read the bible you claim to believe for that matter? Those of us that actually really believe, seriously seek daily to learn Gods will for us while we are here having this earthly experience. And you will see us trying our best to serve others and make a difference. Unfortunately the ones who are inactive and disbelieve have no idea what the church believes...... It is literally God's living Kingdom here on this earth.... If you don't believe me that's fine, you have every right, but I say to those that actually seek truth and recognize God as there ultimate provider for everything instead of yourselves, read it, study it, find out what God is saying to you, and telling you this life is for. and I know from experience you will learn from him The Source of truth.

  • KurtFK Littleton, CO
    April 15, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    You must excuse us Latter-day Saints for having "an inflated sense of our impact on the world". The prophetic charter of this Church is breathtaking in its scope - to offer salvation not only to those living on the earth today, if they wish, but to every soul that has ever or will ever live on earth. That's a tall order, and we take it very seriously. Joseph Smith prophesied that the Church "will fill all of North and South America - it will fill the whole earth." The Church is the 4th largest denomination in America today. There are nearly as many practicing Latter-day Saints in the world now as there are Jews. That many people, sharing the same beliefs, can't help but have an enormous effect on the world around them. You'd best get used to it.

  • JM Lehi, UT
    April 16, 2011 12:17 a.m.

    It's interesting to read the comments of anti-Mormons pretending to be LDS here, and being atheists elsewhere etc. I wonder why? ; )

    You just can't trust those wolves in sheep clothing, but they're not really as judgemental as they seem, are they??? : )

    Oh, hey vanka, MormonCowboy, etc, nice to see you here, if you see Otis could you let him know I used my 4 comments and will be posting next week.

    And thanks for agreeing, you did agree right?

    A personal meeting would be nice (perhaps somewhere with metal detectors ; ) just kidding, I'm sure you're not that bad.) Are you really in Provo or do I have to fly to Australia? Canada? What? I'm out of town in two weeks, but next week the public forum ("place") will be Mike Ash, comments, time will hopefully be monday... no weapons ; )
    Thanks for letting me pick time and place.

    luvya heaps, as always.

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    Was Jesus lds?

  • roberto Moses Lake, WA
    April 16, 2011 8:59 a.m.

    You'd expect the haters to come out of the wood work after reading this artical. Talk about a soft ball to hit.... Having said that the haters opinion does not make the church any less true, or my opinion of the church any more true. We ALL have to come to the truth the same way. I believe that if the church is true then the haters have a surprise coming in the next life, if it isn't then I do. I'm willing to take my chances. In the meantime I'm going to live life the best way I can.

  • Mormoncowboy Provo, Ut
    April 16, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    JM:

    Since you have a few comments left here - why don't you please explain your proposition. What are you trying to get us to agree to? What is happening next week on Ash's articles that will be different from anything that has happened on his previous posts? It appears like you are issuing some type of challenge, but the nature of that challenge has so far alluded me. Admittedly, you have piqued my curiosity - but I'm slightly dissappointed that you have refused Vanka's request for a public debate. So as of right now, as I understand it, come Monday Mike Ash will post an article (as usual), to which some debate will occur between various parties (as usual), and most of the comments will come from the usual commenters. Great idea JM! That sounds like a refreshingly unique way to move the conversation!

  • Spot Light Beverly Hills, CA
    April 16, 2011 9:09 a.m.

    Online poker scamdel is now national, international news - with good ol St George stuck in the middle of it.

    Mitt Romney is mad!

  • JM Lehi, UT
    April 16, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    @Johnson72
    Good question. Since LDS means Latter Day Saint I'd say "yes" by some definitions, "no" by others. Jesus is certainly sanctified, but typically we think of Saints as being sanctified BY Jesus.

    @VankaCowboy, this is public, you've read the terms, and you have to be fair and reasonable (no rejecting valid references etc), and agree to stop criticizing LDS if I produce 25.... what are you afraid of? ; )

    If you are so sure there is no evidence you will make your point. If there is BoM evidence, or evidence that the Maya knew Christian symbolism, temple symbolism etc, then you are diminishing your reputation by claiming they didn't and you might as well find out now, so you can do the right thing and stop attacking truth and others lives. I assure you that what you are doing here on the DN, Trib, etc is harmful TO YOU.

    For thousands of years people have understood that it's wrong to misinform to create discord and darken. You can free yourself from this and, even if you can't return, you can at least spend your time helping others instead of seeking to harm or mislead. winwin : )

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    April 16, 2011 4:18 p.m.

    Johnson72 | 8:10 a.m. April 16, 2011

    "Was Jesus lds?"

    No. Jesus was never baptized or confirmed into the LDS Church. He was never ordained to the LDS priesthood, and was never a member of any LDS Elder's Quorum or High Priest Group. He never had his endowments in the LDS Temple. He was never sealed to a woman (or many women) in the LDS temple. He was never called to serve in any position of the LDS Church, and was certainly never sustained in any calling. Jesus' name does not appear in any of the membership records of the LDS Church.

    Jesus was not only NOT a Mormon, but Jesus wasn't even a Christian!

  • verily_verily Beautiful, NV
    April 16, 2011 6:15 p.m.

    So as the sun sets over the City of Salt, with all of the comments being read, I conclude that Mormons strive to be good, the women are supporting, and the children know the difference between good and evil. The purport published by the hardened pulp of the land, are filled with perfumed elucidation that wholly prerogatives those that "ride in the whirlwind and directs the storm," by paradigm of their faith.

  • Mr. Bean SLC, Utah
    April 16, 2011 9:49 p.m.

    @Mormoncowboy: "Understanding this distinction, both parties would be better to rephrase the argument to say "Mormons and traditional Christians have distinctly different beliefs as to the nature and identity of Christ."

    The question is, why is it that Christ Himself would be so reticent about clarifying the distinction. We can assume that He is derelict since there are so many views prevalent today. One can easily conclude that it's not that important what humans thing about the Godhead, whether it be one or three.

  • mtgregson Holladay, UT
    April 17, 2011 7:00 a.m.

    The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the Lord Jesus Christs living kingdom reestablished and set up and led by Him through a living prophet, called by Him today. Believe it or not, it is your choice. But if anyone that seeks Gods will other than their own, and seeks pure truth and light, and you are willing to act on the desire to know the truth, you will come to know through revelation through the Holy Ghost that this is in fact The very truth. Do not tell me it is not, because I have indeed put in the effort and know. The scriptures are before us, this life is a test of our faith so we can choose. What will you choose, to follow the ideas of men, men who have done nothing of themselves? Or do we seek light and truth from The source Christ Himself? The Words of God are before us. Have you studied them, pondered, and prayed concerning them? They are before us, we all have access to them, and you and I when we stand before God to be judged for our lives will have no excuses!

  • ECR Burke, VA
    April 17, 2011 9:45 a.m.

    The headline on the front page was shortened to say simply "What people have said about the Mormons" and I was initially concerned, thinking of the terrible lies and disgusting adjectives used by so many in so many publications across the land. Thank goodness the article focused on the kind words of so many people of high character. Thank you for printing this.

  • Drake Cage New York City, New York
    April 17, 2011 7:44 p.m.

    Nice article. However, I Would love to read what famous black people said about the Mormons considering the Church's historically hurtful stance and assertions of blacks being a cursed race. I have nothing wrong with a significant faction of the Mormons but their history and the fact that some very uncomfortable views against my race still exists in the "Book of Mormons" makes it almost impossible for me to ever reconcile with that faith.

  • Fairenough4U Draper, utah
    April 19, 2011 12:16 a.m.

    For active Mormons, friendship with non-members is almost always a verb. They often treat us as missionary projects. It is insulting and objectifying. There is no room for deep and mutually respectful relationships when one side always has "potential convert" in the back of their thoughts.

    There simply is no room for the calm joy and peaceful satisfaction that comes from deep, mutual respect for another person or for what he believes when you start with the assumption that you have the Only True Religion. I wish more Mormons would learn to stop being so obsessed with obedience and would start proactively living their lives instead of reactively obeying the Brethren.

    I recommend Mormons read "Care of the Soul" by Thomas Moore. In it, he distinguishes spirituality from soulfulness. Mormonism provides only moderate nurturing for spirituality, and absolutely no nurturing for soulfulness. Mormons tend not to be very soulful, because soulfulness is not valued in Mormonism. Read the book, see the hole in your life. Surrender and become better friends.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    April 19, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    Interesting quotes.

    Not so much these posts. It's easy to generalize and lump individuals together. It's easy for one to call someone else "plastic" or "not real," yet at the same time consider themselves "enlightened" or "genuine".

    Generalizing has lead to many debates, fights, and even wars. And while it's easy to say "the majority of so-and-so are fake" or "they are always (put your perjorative here)" it's much more difficult to develop a relationship with someone else, respect and not denegrate their opposing view, and treat them as individuals. Perhaps we can't say how another persons "reality" is, unless we are willing to walk in their shoes. maybe then we can appreciate what they have to offer or what we can offer them.

  • bgl Santa Monica, CA
    May 1, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Well, since this article only seems to want to talk about nice things that nice people have said about some of the nicer Mormons they've met, I'll add something nice about the Mormons.

    "A lot of them aren't like Glen Beck at all."