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Dick Harmon: BCS finds more scrutiny for change

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  • myself Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2011 11:37 p.m.

    It's amazing how many articles Harmon can write about the BCS. How about a little creativity Harmon?

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 14, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    At the very least there should be a playoff among the top 4 ranked teams. That would disrupt the bowl system very little. 2 of the BCS bowls would be playoff bowls and the winners would play in the NC.

    A better approach would be to take the top 12 ranked teams and give the top 4 a bye. Have the bottom 8 play off to face the top 4. The winners of that round would play each other to produce the NC game teams.

    2 of the 12 teams might (unlikely) play a max of 4 after season games instead of just 1 bowl game (3 extra games). Most teams would play 2 or less extra games. That is not a big problem for big time football programs.

    The top 12 teams usually include non BCS teams and some teams who placed 2nd in BCS conferences.

    It would be a vast improvement and would still leave the minor bowls in place. It also should increase the TV audience for the playoff bowls.

    Going to the top 12 give ample opportunity for non BCS teams to make the playoffs as long as the rankings are semi honest.

  • In My Humble Opinion South Jordan, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:01 a.m.

    myself | 11:37 p.m. April 13, 2011
    Salt Lake City, UT
    It's amazing how many articles Harmon can write about the BCS. How about a little creativity Harmon?
    --------------
    And on a subject so irrelevant the Wall Street Journal has written on it, the President has commented on it and ratings prove is popular. Why would anyone write on such a subject?

  • garysticht Clinton, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:02 a.m.

    Utah now being in a AQ BCS League changes nothing about my absolute hatred of this corrupt system. I would hope that the U's President Young doesn't sell out and would always vote to give access to the NC to the team who wins out in a playoff. Regardless of who that team is. Having lived in Big 12 country I know first hand the arrogance of Texas Longhorn fans who claimed that their program's history gave them a pass and an automatic inside track to the NC as long as they didn't lose 2 (yes TWO) games in the same year. They also tried to justify that a 2 loss Longhorn team was still more deserving than any undefeated non-AQ Team.

    I hope the U, it's fans, and Administration never forget how it felt after winning the Sugar Bowl and still getting dismissed as not being worthy of consideration to sit among the elite at the big kids' table.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:28 a.m.

    You could end the BCS tomorrow and install a playoff, but I can assure you, the Team in Provo still wouldn't be playing for a national championship anytime soon or even ever.

    Ain't going to happen. Sorry Harmon.

  • JapanCougar Apo, AP
    April 14, 2011 5:29 a.m.

    I'll be very interested to see if Utah (and TCU) embrace the current BCS system. I hope they don't.

    We'll see if the oppressed become the oppressors.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 14, 2011 6:41 a.m.

    @ I still can't say it,

    has to post again with his, Team in Provo. Here is something you will never say bro, "Utah, National Football Champions!" Or, "A Utah football player, winner of the Heisman Trophy."

    For a reality check, you should visit the museum at the UIP (University in Provo) and see the only National Campionship trophy and only Heisman Trophy that have been won by a team in this state. As a, go ahead, say it, BYU fan, I could care less if I see BYU ever win another National Championship. Been there, done that. I was in San Diego that night and continue to share memories with the champ QB, Robbie Bosco. We've enjoyed the "buffet" and are still full, while the Team in Salt Lake is starving will never build a trophy case to house a Football National Championship Trophy. Enjoy all those Lady Ute gymnastics trophies. That is as close as you'll get to the Team in Provo's reality.

    Out!

  • Nikolas Sabaan Surfers Paradise, AU
    April 14, 2011 7:13 a.m.

    If the sample size was limited to the top 4, the BCS computers would find ways to not allow non-AQ teams to be part of the top 4. After all, a computer derives the numbers for formulas. As for the team from provo, it doesn't matter. As long as there was a way to play their way in, just like with the U today, that's all anyone asks.

    BSU, and TCU have both been worthy candidates in recent years but the computers didn't allow the matchup to take place. Time to hose the BCS and it's corrupt executives.

  • jazzbball Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 7:46 a.m.

    I would hope Utah fans continue to fight against the BCS system that unfairly kept their 2004 team out of a national championship opportunity.
    Even though they're now in an AQ league, it doesn't make the system right or fair.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    April 14, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    @ I Still Can't Say It -

    Ah, the prophetic voice, wandering in the desert. Tell me, did your soothesaying get basketball right this year, "BYU will make it to the Sweet Sixteen, but no further. Ain't going to happen. Sorry Harmon. So let it be written, so let it be done."

    Prior to the "Bowl Scandal" (sheesh, who woulda guessed?), I would have voted to settle on a playoff format and let the bowls figure out a system that still allows them to come into play.

    Now, I don't know. Shoot, they could take a year or two to figure it out, but for Pete's sake, NCAA, let the captives go free!

    Whether or not BYU ever rises to the top again.

  • BP Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    Let's see...the BCS is being approached from the judicial branch and the legislative branch, and the current president has said he will do what he can to see a playoff happen. This should be an interesting experiment in politics.

  • International Cougar Fan Tacoma, WA
    April 14, 2011 8:01 a.m.

    Think of all the tax revenue Obama and his cronies could get if he created a playoff system in College Football. Go get those rich and greedy people Mr. President.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    April 14, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    Y-Not-u,

    If you are so fulfilled by what happened almost three decades ago, then why watch football in the new century? By your logic, BYU should have closed up shop back in 1985, knowing that "it can't get any better than this."

    But to most sports fans, "what have you done for me lately" matters.

    I am a loyal Ute fan, but I have to agree that the Utes' chances ever winning a national championship in college football are very slim. That being said, I hope to be proven wrong. Hopefully sometime soon.

    ---------------------

    Regarding the BCS:

    It has several flaws, but it continues to get better. That being said, I would still much prefer a playoff of some kind.

    Since 2004, the formula for non-BCS teams, while arguably unfair, has been simple - finish the season undefeated and you get a BCS invite.

    Utah, TCU, Boise State, and Hawaii have all gone undefeated in the last 7 years, three of them twice. For Cougar fans who aren't content to look back on the ol' glory days, just hope your team goes undefeated. You'll see the Cougars get a BCS invite - I promise.

  • goitalone w bountiful, ut
    April 14, 2011 8:43 a.m.

    Why has it taken so long for legal "experts" to see that the only way to bring the BCS to justice is through anti-trust legislation? Could it be because the old boy network in Congress and in Justice have secure ties to the same conference institutions which illegally perpetuate this financial thuggery upon the "unworthy" masses?

    This has never been about fairness and never will be. It is about the blatant theft of resources by a few self seen elite conferences. The corrupt distribution of wealth within the BCS ought to send both right and left wingers ballistic, but for some reason it hasn't.

    Why? Money talks and the BCS walks.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    April 14, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    The two bowl games between the top four teams were very close games but I guarantee the viewing audiences were not anywhere near what they could/would have been had a format been followed: 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 with the winners meeting in a contest for the almost real national championship. Only the fans from the states involved even watched the two bowl games. NCAA basketball was proof that rankings and seeds are completely flawed. Football rankings are nothing more than a crap shoot. The beauty of the Big Dance is that 68 teams had a shot and that every team has to bring their "A" game every night. None of the #1 seeds even made the final four.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    About time!

  • Tommy2Shoes Lehi, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:57 a.m.

    Follow the money.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    April 14, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    Seems to me what Dick was getting at was to take a look at what happened in Basketball this year. Under a BCS typs system the winner this year may not have even Had a chance be in the tournament.This happens often in football under the current system.Every team ought to feel they can have an equal chance if they have an exceptional season. Utah should have had that chance at least twice in recent years,also Boise State, TCU and I'm sure others.I'm not sure what will cause change,but if we stop talking about it and writing about it it will never change.Kudo's to those who try to keep it on the front burner and in the minds of those who have influence to help make reasonable changes.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 14, 2011 9:08 a.m.

    The days of the BCS are numbered and when future generations look back on the BCS-era of college football history they'll marvel at how stupid so many people could have been to be using computer formulas to help decide the major college football national champion.

    They'll laugh at old timers who try to explain that preserving bowl "traditions" was more important than having a playoff.

    The only chance Utah has of ever winning a national championship in football is through a playoff. The BCS computers will never put the Utes in the BCS championship game.

  • Otis Spurlock Ogden, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:12 a.m.

    Nothing is perfect, that includes the BCS. However, the BCS is great!!

    I liken Harmon's attitude to someone who secretly desires what they can't have and haven't earned yet. Kind of like someone who lives in a trailer park jealously admiring the mansions of Beverly Hills.

    Harmon, the answer to all your woes is easy. Win a couple of BCS Bowls and attract the attention of the elite BCS Conferences. TCU and Utah did it. It's not rocket science.

    I really wish that BYU can beef up and improve their game so that one day they too will be invited to play with the big boys of the BCS. Until then, whining is counter-productive and won't help BYU win any BCS Bowls.

    Happy Easter everyone!!

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:15 a.m.

    The question is: What is to stop the big six from starting a new football system that excludes everyone not part of those existing six conferences? We already have different levels within collage football being played. Why not another? Just because someone has the ability to field a team in a sport, does not qualify them to be part of highest level of play in that sport. Can any team play in the NBA, MLB, or the NFL? What is to stop this from happening in collage football? Presently the NCAA has membership of the big six but they could leave without notice. They could and would form their own football organization. That organization has the potential to take all the really important bowls with it and leave the rest to the "sisters of the poor" and the NCAA.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    There's absolutely no valid reason why D-1A football can't have a 16-game playoff, just like D-1AA, D-II, and D-III already have.

    Take every conference champion that is ranked in at least one poll, plus the next 5 or 6 highest ranked teams (both polls combined).

    Seed the teams 1 through 16.

    Play the opening round on the home field of the higher seed the first Saturday after Christmas, which would guarantee good attendance and reduce travel expenses.

    Quarter-finals the next Saturday in four of the traditional Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose Bowl sites.

    Semi-finals and final the next two Saturdays at two of those same sites.

    The remaining bowls could still be played, but not on playoff Saturdays.

    The tournament would last one week longer than the Big Dance, and only four teams would be playing past January 8th.

    At the latest, the championship game would be played on January 22nd, in most years, even earlier.

    Most schools don't start winter semester until the 2nd week of January, so the playoff would have almost no affect on student athletes.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    April 14, 2011 9:36 a.m.

    ''That organization has the potential to take all the really important bowls with it and leave the rest to the "sisters of the poor" and the NCAA."

    Silent lurker,

    I agree, and feel the Big 6 will do just that if pressured. Leaving the Kraft Hunger bowl and the "NC" for the "sister of the poor".

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    To all you U fans. It was because of the money. No more, no less.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    Mr Harmon, this bcs stuff is getting so old and will continue to be. Please let the rest of your staff put it to rest and let us know when this bcs do DIE. It will die some day which I hope soon. So, put it to rest!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 10:16 a.m.

    I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than a full championship tournament involving the conference champions of all the FBS level conferences. The independents would get in by being ranked above a certain level. Seeding would be done the same way basketball is. The bowls could still be involved by bidding to host the different playoff games and the championship, just like host sites currently do in basketball. Any bowl games that don't win a bid to host a playoff game could then pick from the teams that are left to play in their bowl games on a first come first served basis, kind of like the NIT in basketball. That's just my idea of how it should work.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 14, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    Silent Lurker

    "What is to stop the big six from starting a new football system that excludes everyone not part of those existing six conferences?"

    What makes you think they'd include the dregs of the big six conference in the new super conference?

    Carrying your absurdity a little farther, what is to stop the elite 16 teams from creating their own super conference and leaving out ALL of the "undeserving, unwashed" rabble?

    What do the Iowa State's, Indiana's, and Utah's of college football add to the mix of elite programs?

    Welcome to the new National Championship Conference (NCC)

    Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, USC, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, and Notre Dame

    Be careful not to get too smug with your big boy conference membership. Being in one of the big six conferences, doesn't make U one of the big boys.

  • Honor Code Denver, Colorado
    April 14, 2011 10:50 a.m.

    Looks like MR. Harmon is running out of things to write on!!!

    Dick, why not go out and politic for a "JIMMER BOWL" in the cereal section of your grocery store!!

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 14, 2011 10:52 a.m.

    Unless cooler heads prevail and a national championship playoff is adopted, the super conference scenario is much more plausible than the super six conferences division. Texas is already moving in that direction with their own television network and the other elite programs are sure to follow.

    The BCS is dead. It's just a matter of time before an anti-trust lawsuit, congressional legislation, or its own internal jealousy and bickering, will tear the BCS apart.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:10 a.m.

    Someday we'll have a 16-team playoff and the BCS will be nothing more than a failed experiment.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    Gotta laugh at all of these pseudo BCS supporters.

    In 2004 and 2008, these exact same fans were whining about the unfairness of the system that didn't give the Utes a chance to play for the national championship.

    Many of them still claim that Utah was the best team and actually won the national championship because the Utes were undefeated. Neither is true.

    The BCS gave U a chance to sit at the rickety card table and enjoy the little kids meal. A playoff would have given U a chance to sit at the big boys table and enjoy the feast.

    Despite the BCS, BYU has enjoyed the feast, something U will never do as long as the BCS exists.

  • Igualmente Mesa, AZ
    April 14, 2011 11:35 a.m.

    A playoff that includes every Division I-A (FBS) conference champion is the answer.

    No polls, No bowls, No out of conference games will count. Independents like BYU need to join a conference to be included.

    This would make every regular season game even more important and exciting. Equal access for all. That will be the only pure National Championship.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:51 a.m.

    @ I still can't say it;
    "You could end the BCS tomorrow and install a playoff, but I can assure you, the Team in Provo still wouldn't be playing for a national championship anytime soon or even ever. Ain't going to happen.

    Can you tell me where you got your crystal ball? I see a lot of potential if marketed right. Can you also show me how well you have done predicting the future in the past few years. I need reasonable proof.

    Just because you don't want BYU to do well doesn't mean it won't happen.
    BYU has a better chance of going to a BCS game now than Utah does using the same formula Utah used twice. Play acouple of good teams, a few respectable teams and several cupcakes, throw in a generous helping of lucky breaks, go undefeated and your in.
    BYU will play more tough teams than Utah did but this year they play several cupcakes also. Utah will still get a few easy games but it will be difficult to avoid 3-4 losses on the average year.
    A playoff will give all schools equality regarding a NC.

  • AZCougar Gilbert, AZ
    April 14, 2011 11:59 a.m.

    Someone with some clout needs to take on the BCS cartel. Unfortunately, institutions like Smith College, a private women's college, the University of Chicago, known for academics, not athletics or UCSD something less than a mid-major university don't exactly pose a threat.
    The problem is, the tail is wagging the dog. Intercollegiate athletics have become so big and powerful that universities have lost focus. When bowl games and the final four get more press than scholarly achievements, something is wrong.
    Given that most of the big state supported research institutions in powerhouse conferences are at the root of the problem, there seems to be a simple and obvious solution...withhold research funding and federal dollars until these universities fix the BCS corruption machine.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    AZCougar

    As with many corrupt systems, all it may take is one sympathetic ruling by one sympathetic judge to bring the whole BCS cartel to its knees.

    The vast majority of fans already support a playoff; all they need is a leader to get the ball moving toward real change. That's exactly why we don't already have a +1 game, because the bowls that control major college football know that a +1 game would open the door to a playoff.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:20 p.m.

    Waaaaaaaah ittttt hurts sooooo bad still even after all these months. Good for you BYU fans project your bitter dissapointment for being left out of the BSC onto the evil BCS!!

    Time to move on!

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 12:34 p.m.

    1. The BCS is corrupted by money.
    2. The BCS is not about fairness or championships.
    3. Will BCS universities voluntarily give up money? Unlikely.
    4. The BCS controversy involves the MWC and BYU, but it is not about the MWC or BYU.
    5. Any judgment on BCS fairness does not hinge on BYU's W-L record. Win-loss records are seasonal and fluctuate, but the fairness issue stays constant.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 14, 2011 12:41 p.m.

    Ibleedcrimson

    Keep telling yourself that when BYU is back in the national spotlight as one of the pioneers of the next generation of independent football programs, while Utah fans are becoming more and more disgruntled about their endless string of 7-5 seasons and feeling even more picked on, because USC just announced that it wanted an even bigger share of the PAC 12 pie or it was bolting the conference for independence.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    Ok Snack PAC let's add when the martians land and the sun rises in the West while you're at it. Since were making the future up as we go along.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:14 p.m.

    skywalker,

    So how did Oregon get there? With Utah being in the same league now, there is no rational reason why Utah can't get there by doing the same thing Oregon did. It is really that simple.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:26 p.m.

    anti BCS,

    BYU had the good fortune of being voted national champion before the BCS existed. In those days it was entirely up to the AP voters and the coaches. There was no coalition of conferences working together to keep the power, glory and money concentrated in the hands of a the few. In fact the BCS was created to prevent that from ever happening again.

    However, the Utes have persevered and with a lot of hard work earned our way into one of the conferences that will give us that opportunity as long as we keep working hard and improving. There is no doubt that much hard work is still ahead, but to say the U will never get there is simply sour grapes on your part and not based on rational thinking.

    You talk as if BYU somehow conquerred the BCS when in fact they never have even sniffed a BCS bowl game. People like to conveniently forget that we were the first team to satisfy the outrageous BCS criteria to play in one of their games and then we also became the first to do it twice.

    We earned our place.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    @Utah 95

    No BYU did not pack it in after the 1984 season.

    since then,

    A Heisman
    2 Outland Trophies
    2 more Davey O'Brian trophies (4 total)
    7 inductees into the College Hall of Fame (Detmer's coming)
    10 more or so Consensus All-Americans (16 total)
    A Doak Walker trophy
    3 or 4 more Sammy Baugh trophies(7 total)
    Conference Championships....really wanna go there?
    NFL MVP's-twice
    Super Bowl MVP-once

    Their own National Network and a multi-million dollar contract with ESPN to show their games, Football and Basketball.

    No BYU has not been frozen in time.

    But apparently Utah clings to yesterday, with their tattered Fiesta Bowl (2004), and Sugar Bowl(2008) Banners still hanging on the University of Eccles Stadium.

    I guess the Utah "closet" of Fame isn't big enoug to accomodate.

    go Wazzu utes

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:31 p.m.

    Sorry Otis Spurlock, talking about the BCS monopoly is not whining. Your gratuitous insult is too pejorative and itself falls into the category of whining.

  • Bomar Roberts, ID
    April 14, 2011 1:46 p.m.

    The BCS needs to be investigated under RICO statutes. The corruption involved in this group is beyond corrupt. What has come to light regarding the Fiesta Bowl and their use of funds by a tax exempt organization should require a federal investigation. The other bowls should also be investigated to see how they are spending tax exempt monies.

    The way the BCS has treated non BCS schools, i.e. Boise State, TCU and Utah is enough to go after the BCS on antitrust laws.

    To hell with the bowls, a playoff system should be instituted by the NCAA that allows the Butlers and VCUs to have a shot. Lower division NCAA teams have playoffs and it works just fine. The phony argument that players don't have the time simply is not true. It is all about the big boys and the bowls getting rich off an unjust system.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    April 14, 2011 1:49 p.m.

    Conference champions plus five in a 16-bracket, placed by the draw. The plus five could be seconds in their conferences. Use the major bowls as the last games, four weeks and its settled on the field.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 1:59 p.m.

    TJ,

    You really believe BYU's road to a BCS game is easier than the Utes? Let me explain why you're wrong. You say you see us losing 3 to 4 games a year. I agree that will be likely for the first several years. Even with that we have a shot. If those 3 or 4 losses come in non-conference games or against teams in the North Division, we can win our division and play in the Conference Championship game. We win that game and we're in.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    TJ,

    This is the BYU part of my response to you:

    Now, let's look at BYU's chances. First of all, show me in the BCS bylaws where BYU is given a shot at a BCS game... Oh, that's right, they're not. Only the mid-major conferences and Notre Dame are specifically given that, if they are ranked high enough. So BYU has no guarantee no matter how highly they are ranked. The first hurdle BYU has to get over is playing the right teams at the right time to be ranked high enough. The second hurdle will be teams like Boise State, Nevada and Hawaii who will get an at large spot ahead of BYU by virtue of the BCS rules. So BYU can only get in if none of the mid-Major conferences or Notre Dame qualify. I see those as longer odds than what Utah has.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:06 p.m.

    Bluto,

    Do you really believe BYUtv was created for sports? Even once BYU breaks out of the MWC and all its events can be shown on BYUtv, would you care to guess what percentage of the programing will be sports related? So saying BYU sports has its own national network is stretching the truth quite a bit.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:15 p.m.

    Mormon Ute;
    Point is taken and has some validity but; Utah has to win enough games against the southern division opponents to get to the conference championship and they then have to win the conference championship game. They also could go 11-1, losing to a division foe that goes undefeated in the division and still be left out. This will be an extremely hard road to travel successfully. If BYU has a very good season they could go undefeated in the next year or two and end up in the same place.
    I honestly hope that Utah does this as I am a fan of their coach and thier players. It's the bottom of the barrel 5% of the fans and their lack of class that I have a problem with.

    Nothing against the Utes but I am really hoping that this all becomes irrelevant and the BCS is shoved back under the rock they came from so the top 16 teams can play for a real championship in the near future.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 14, 2011 2:25 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    U simply got lucky; right place at the right time.

    Using the same criteria BCS criteria, BYU would have played in at least 5 BCS games by now if the BCS had existed since 1980, and there would have been no chance for jealous Utah fans to whine, because BYU would have beaten Washington or Oklahoma or Nebraska in the championship game.

    The Pittsburgh team Utah beat in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl would have been stomped by the Michigan team BYU beat in the 1984 Holiday Bowl.

    BYU earned its place by convincing the majority of voters from all 5 major selecting organizations that BYU was the most deserving team to win the Major College Football National Championship in 1984.

    BYU finished 1984 on a 24-game winning streak, including road wins over two Top 15 teams, and back-to-back Top 10 finishes; Utah has never come close to matching that.

    For winning a BCS game, you're one of four teams to get an Orange, or Sugar, or Fiesta, or Rose Bowl trophy.

    For finishing #1, you get a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy,

    and inclusion on the list of National Champions!

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:41 p.m.

    Spent a week in Arizona visiting relatives and they had 8 days of articles outlining the corruption of the Fiesta Bowl. IT was not pretty. And who has the BCS asked to investigate the Fiesta Bowl as to whether it should remain on the the Championship Bowls, non other than another Bowl President. What a bunch of baloney.

    The former Arizona State Attorney General and the Fiesta Bowl lobbyist did a week-long investigation and said nothing was wrong. It was not until the assistant to the then President of the Fiesta Bowl talked to the new President of the Board and told him they were being led astray. They brought in an outside group and they uncovered corruption and misuse of funds. $33,000 for a birthday party for the then President Junker. The corruption went on and on.

    They need this same group to investigate every single BCS game and I think hey will find essentially the same stuff.

    The NCAA is supposed to oversee this stuff, but the NCAA is the President of the Universities. The majority got together in a back room and rammed this Money rainfall for them down the throats of the others.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 14, 2011 2:42 p.m.

    Wow first revisionist future now revisionist past, you have quite a talent for spin Snack PAC.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    April 14, 2011 2:51 p.m.

    "The Pittsburgh team Utah beat in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl would have been stomped by the Michigan team BYU beat in the 1984 Holiday Bowl."

    snatchpack,

    If I'm not mistaken Pitt had a winning record and won the Big East. Michigan on the other hand ended up 6th in the big 10.

    Not sure if pitt would have been "stomped" by a team that shouldn't have gone to a bowl game.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 2:59 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "BYU had the good fortune of being voted national champion before the BCS existed. In those days it was entirely up to the AP voters"

    In 2003, USC had the good fortune of being voted national champion DURING the BCS era. Today, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, it is still entirely up to the AP voters!

    The AP has absolutely no connection to the BCS.

    USC didn't even play in the BCS championship game.

    Interestingly, it's the AP poll that Utah fans use when talking about their #4 and #2 "BCS teams" in 2004 and 2008. If Utah fans were intellectually honest about the BCS, they'd be using the Coaches poll, the official BCS poll, which only ranked the Utes #5 and #4.

    USC earned its 2003 AP National Championship in EXACTLY the same way BYU earned its 1984 AP National Championship, by being ranked #1 in the final AP poll.

    A fact that even jealous Utah fans can't dispute, they can only try to spin.

  • Mount Olympus Salt Lake, UT
    April 14, 2011 3:07 p.m.

    Harmon sure likes to complain...

    let me guess:

    his knee is down....

    BYU would be national champions if they weren't so admirable in having such a strict honor code...

    BYU would be in the Pac-12 if they were allowed to play on Sunday, instead of just practice and have coaches shows on sunday.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 3:17 p.m.

    "If I'm not mistaken Pitt had a winning record and won the Big East. Michigan on the other hand ended up 6th in the big 10"

    Since when have records ever been the only deciding factor?

    Utah(9-4) 0
    UNLV(2-10) 27

    Pitt 2004 finished in a four-way tie for first in a very weak seven-team Big East conference.

    Michigan 1984 was a MUCH better team and would have stomped Pitt 2004.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 3:22 p.m.

    Mount Olympus

    Utah fans simply like to whine about championships Utah "deserved" to win, but didn't, and a championship BYU did win, but didn't "deserve" to win in the crimson-colored glasses world of Ute jealous-dom.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 4:14 p.m.

    Snack PAC,

    Pure speculation on your part. You cannot say BYU would have ranked high enough in the BCS system to have played in 5 of their bowls, because you don't know. Unless you've done all the math, and there's no way you could dig up all the right numbers to do it. Some of the systems they use to rank the teams didn't exist. As for winning in the Championship game, again just pure speculation. Not even based on any fact. Let's stick with facts. We've played in two you've played in zero.

    More speculation about Pitt vs. Michigan and there were plenty of teams across the country that were criticizing BYU's win over Michigan as not being National Title worthy. Michigan wasn't even ranked in the top 25 going into the game with a 6-5 record and BYU barely beat them. We dominated Pitt in 2004. As I have said before BYU doesn't have one of those crystal trophies either and has a hard road to getting one.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    anti BCS,

    I really don't see what relevance USC has in this discussion. I simply pointed out the fact that BYU won only because the BCS didn't exist and didn't manipulate the system like they do today. Today, the system is designed to keep that from happening. So for BYU fans to claim they have an easier road to a title is wishful thinking. The BCS was created to keep BYU (and other mid-majors) out and the people who control it will do what it takes to keep it that way.

    I'm not spinning anything at all. If you research the actual records, you'll see it all in black and white. I didn't say what we did was better than what BYU did. I said we had no chance at the title, because the system now prevents it. The system is completely different now and the coaches poll is only one small aspect of the BCS ranking. So don't go getting all upitty on me.

  • Lowell Chad Tempe, AZ
    April 14, 2011 4:30 p.m.

    Dick Harmon is one of the better writers in the greater Provo area (it's not a stretch to consider him one of the better writers in Utah county). He constantly has interesting things to say. Why can't he weigh in on the BCS system?

    I remember back in my glory days when I was on campus I saw him scarfing down some frosty, smooth ice cream at the BYU Creamery and I was too scared to approach him for an autograph. I've regretted my temerity that day for nearly 15 years. He is as much a legend in the discipline of journalism as Rick Steves is in the world of travel.

    As for the BCS, I hope that TUN (Team Up North) sticks to their guns and follows the movement to abolish this corrupt system. Now!

  • 4blade2007 Provo, Utah
    April 14, 2011 4:49 p.m.

    Granted the Utah Football program has enjoyed success the past 10 years mainly because of the spread mickey mouse offense of Urban. It is just a matter of time before defenses catch-up to offense, thus enter Norm Chow. To my point, I really tire of the Utah - BYU comparison, yes they were in the same conference and ony 35 miles apart - end of discussion. Before Utah was on the football map, BYU was winning year after year. With a strong fan base especially in the West, the PAC 10 was licking their chops thinking of the possibilities of including BYU, the only problem who could they team with to move from the WAC? little brother up North wasn't very goood in football. BYU has been more interested in teaming with Utah than the other way. BYU also has the NO PLAY rule on Sunday. BYU travels well away, but visitors have issues traveling to Provo because of smoking, coffee, etc. BYU is better off teaming with other religious schools albeit Catholic majority, still a good situation. Utah is better off too, no longer BYU's little brother.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 4:56 p.m.

    4blade2007,

    And your characterization of Utah as the little brother is partly what generates so much animousity from Ute fans. Not from me, because I don't let it get too me, but the arrogance of it really gets to a lot of fans. So if you want civility out of Ute fans, tone down the arrogance.

  • mkSdd3 Ogden, UT
    April 14, 2011 5:10 p.m.

    All ranking, and that includes computer rankings, are biased by peoples opinions.

    We need to get away from opinions and settle things on the field. Basketball proves that the prevailing opinions never match the outcomes of games. Ohio State would have been crown basketball champion this year if we leave it up to opinions.

    16 team playoff, with all conference champions invited. That would leave 4 at large bids. Surely the best team in the land would be included with that many invites.

  • Bugoff Houston, TX
    April 14, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    Why can't Utah do it like Oregon?

    Well for starters Oregon has Nike. Further, they have a lot of good QBs not to mention deep talent at just about every position.

    Utah could do well in the PAC BUT they would have to do really well at recruiting vs the rest of the PAC. It remains to be seen how effective Utah will be at recruiting vs USC, OR and other PAC teams that rise to the occasion. WSU gets lucky about every 30 years. The same is true for the AZ schools.

    BYU on the other hand is following the BSU model which has proven fairly successful. Play a couple of good teams and beat their 4 and 5 star recruits with 2 and 3 star recruits. Also manage to win the rest of your games with half or more of those being weak schools.

    It is unlikely BYU will go undefeated against MS, TX, UT, CF, ORst and TCU. However, that schedule is easier than the one UT faces next year.

    Utah's lack of quality depth is a major problem until the get the quality depth that OR has.

    Utah could get lucky. So could BYU.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    April 14, 2011 5:57 p.m.

    "BYU is better off teaming with other religious schools albeit Catholic majority"

    4blade,

    BYU is entering a hornets nest. Trust me when I say Catholics party like no ones business. Within a year your going to long fondly on your trips to Laramie.

    Catholics gonna eat u up.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 6:10 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "As I have said before BYU doesn't have one of those crystal trophies either and has a hard road to getting one."

    Actually, BYU has an exact copy of the same Crystal Football Trophy that Auburn received for winning the National Championship this year.

    Stop by the BYU Sports Hall of Fame to see it sometime. While you're there, you can also see a real Heisman Trophy.

    Utah's BCS trophies represent a real accomplishment, but they pale in comparison to the creme-de-la-creme of major college football which you'll find in BYU's trophy cases.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    April 14, 2011 6:14 p.m.

    oh my,

    I just had my post banned for using the "z" word.

    LOL!

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 7:01 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "I really don't see what relevance USC has in this discussion."

    It's very simple. Utah fans complain that the BCS prevented the Utes from winning a national championship in 2004 and 2008. The truth is, the BCS had nothing to do with Utah not winning a national championship.

    The BCS didn't prevent USC from winning the AP NC in 2003.

    The BCS didn't prevent Utah from winning the AP NC in 2004 or 2008.

    and

    The BCS wouldn't have prevented BYU from winning the AP NC in 1984.

    The BCS is no more relevant in deciding the AP National Championship today, than it was in 1984.

    The ONLY criteria for winning the AP NC is finishing #1 in the final AP poll. It doesn't matter who you played, what bowl you played in, or what your final record was. In fact, you don't even have to play in a bowl. The ONLY criteria is finishing #1 in the final AP poll.

    It's completely up to the AP voters to decide which team is selected #1.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    April 14, 2011 7:50 p.m.

    I can't honestly figure out why fans of the Team in Provo care about the BCS. The Cougs have never even come close to a BCS bowl. Remember, the 2008 "quest" for perfection fell miles short. Another team you may have heard of went to the BCS for the second time that particular year to complete a "perfect" season culminating with the destruction of Alabama.

    If anyone should be complaining it's the Utes. Two national championships rightfully belong to us and we all know it.

    So Team in Provo, quit worrying about the BCS. It's not for you. Play as hard as you can and maybe you can make the Kraft-Hunger Bowl or maybe even the New Mexico Bowl again.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:37 p.m.

    Bugoff,

    Look at Oregon's history. They haven't always been at the top of the PAC-10. it has only been in recent years that they have risen to the level that they are. They haven't always had the depth or the talent. Just like all conferences, different teams emerge over time.

    Also, what do you think Utah has been doing for the past 10 years? Beating 4 and 5 star talent with 2 and 3 star. Ron McBride started it, Urban Meyer ramped it up and Whit has continued it. I see the lower level teams in the PAC-12 looking a lot like the lower level teams BYU will be facing.

    I believe we'll prove we belong in the PAC-12 and I hope BYU has success as an independent.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    April 14, 2011 8:43 p.m.

    @Mormon Ute

    "I hope BYU has success as an independent."

    You're the bigger man. I hope the strange experiment to go independent fails miserably. I hope to see the Team in Provo go crying back to the MWC with its tail between its legs begging to be re-admitted.

  • FloridaUTE Southwest, FL
    April 14, 2011 8:51 p.m.

    anti BCS

    "The BCS wouldn't have prevented BYU from winning the AP NC in 1984."

    I beg to differ. If we use your logic BYU would not have been NC in 1984. Strength of schedule plays a big part in today's BCS rankings. In 1984 not one of BYU's opponents finished in the Top 20. BYU may have been invited to a BCS game but not the NC game. In the history of the BCS the AP vote has never differed from the recognized BCS champion. So BYU would not have been the NC in 1984.

    On the other hand if the 1984 system was in place in 2008 Utah might have ben the NC. Like BYU they were the only undefeated div I school in the land. BYU definitely benefited from the voting system in the 80's, while Utah did not in 2004 and 2008. Let's just say they both had great teams in their respective years.

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 9:00 p.m.

    You can say whatever you want, but don't count on it.

    BYU is going to be very successful as an independent.

    btw, a "perfect season" ends with a national championship.

    Anything less, is less than perfect.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    TrueBlue,

    Ah, but that is not true. BYU has an AP National Championship trophy. It is shaped like a football and changes color some years. It has been gold colored, silver colored and bronze. I'm not sure what color it was in 1984, but it was not crystal and never has been. The crystal trophy is the BCS national championship trophy and BYU doesn't have one. Auburn University got both of them last season.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:10 p.m.

    anti BCS,

    One problem with your arguement. In 1984 the AP National Champion was considered THE National Champion. In 2004 and 2008 the BCS Champion is considered THE National Champion. So there is the difference. You make a good point that it is all based on opinion. That is the very reason I favor a full blown playoff. In absence of that, the only way to get to the BCS title game is by being part of a BCS conference. Good luck to BYU getting back to number 1 in any poll. It won't be any easier for you than for the Utes.

  • FloridaUTE Southwest, FL
    April 14, 2011 9:15 p.m.

    Either way the BCS is a terrible system and it has to go. A playoff has its downside too, but just like March Madness think of how exciting that format would be. Not to mention the lucrative payouts!

  • bfh529 Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:45 p.m.

    Mr. Harmon:

    Please don't encourage supporting the government's attempts to force a college football playoff. Except in a few isolated cases of fraud like the Fiesta Bowl, there is nothing illegal about how money in college football is distributed; the "powers that be" should have every right to charge the prices they do, and nobody is being coerced to pay them. Nobody is being robbed. There are no funds being forcefully or unknowingly removed. They have every right to make the decisions they do, strange as they seem to us fans who want a playoff. If the Department of Justice were to impose the majority's will on the current system, it would be taking away their rights to run the system the way they want to, and THAT would be an injustice. After that, what's to stop the government from, say, ousting you as a sportswriter if the majority of the public doesn't like you? If fans don't like the current system, then they should stop supporting it themselves by not consuming it, instead of calling on the government to solve all their problems by taking other people's rights away.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 9:50 p.m.

    FloridaUTE

    "In the history of the BCS the AP vote has never differed from the recognized BCS champion."

    2003 BCS National Champion - LSU
    2003 AP National Champion - USC

    USC was ranked #1 in both the AP and Coaches regular season final poll, but didn't play in the BCS championship game.

    The AP Poll has been running continuously since 1936. BCS rankings have NEVER even been considered in the AP poll, not in 1939, not in 1984, and not in 2008.

    Voters in the AP poll are free to use whatever criteria the choose to rank teams.

    ----------------------

    Mormon Ute

    "One problem with your arguement. In 1984 the AP National Champion was considered THE National Champion. In 2004 and 2008 the BCS Champion is considered THE National Champion."

    Sorry, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The official NCAA website lists BOTH the BCS champion AND the AP champion.

    BYU was not only the national champion in 1984, the Cougars were the CONCENSUS National Champion, selected national champions by all five major organizations that selected a national champion in 1984.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    April 14, 2011 9:55 p.m.

    The press picked the National Championship in 1984 and they still do today. The bcs, not using caps deseret news, has the bcs national championship bowl not the undisputed National Championship.
    In 2008, Florida was still the disputed National Champions until the polls came out. Even then, Utah still got a lot of #1 votes when they finished #2. The bcs has not done anything to help declare the real National winner.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 14, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    BYU has FIVE National Championship Trophies from 1984 including:

    AP - Associated Press
    FWAA - Football Writers Association of America
    NFF - National Football Foundation
    USA/CNN - USA Today/Cable News Network
    UPI/Coaches (which is now the official BCS championship poll)

    The Coaches trophy on display in BYU's Sports Hall of Fame is identical to the crystal football trophy Auburn received in January 2011.

    You can call me a liar, but I've seen it with my own eyes.
    Feel free to visit BYU's Sport Hall of Fame anytime to see it for yourself if you don't want to believe me.

    And the NCAA still recognizes the AP National Champion as being just as legitimate as the BCS champion.

    From the Official NCAA Website:

    FBS Championship History
    Year Champion Selecting Organization
    2003 LSU BCS
    2003 USC AP, FWAA
    1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1984 BYU AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1983 Miami AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI

    Voters in the polls in 1984 did consider strength of schedule, just like they do today, they just didn't use secret computer formulas to make the calculations for them.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 14, 2011 10:46 p.m.

    The BCS was supposed to match the clear #1 versus the clear #2 to decide a clear national champion.

    It's almost never worked, because there's hardly ever a clear #1 and a clear #2.

    If it had been Texas (with TCU's record) beating Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl, instead of TCU, we could have easily had another split national championship, just like we had in 2003, with Auburn winning the BCS championship, but Texas winning AP championship.

  • FloridaUTE Southwest, FL
    April 14, 2011 10:48 p.m.

    anti BCS

    "Voters in the AP poll are free to use whatever criteria the choose to rank teams."

    Regardless of 2003 BYU would not be the "National Champion" in 1984 under the current BCS/AP system. Look at the facts. Unlike 1984's AP voter, today's voter puts SOS into consideration. BYU did not have a single opponent finish in the final Top 20 at the end of the 1984 season. Five point win over Hawaii? Three point win over Wyoming? Five point win over AF? Beat a 6-5 Michigan team in a bowl game on Dec.21? Come on dog, it was a hack job and you know it! BYU was voted the NC that year because they were the only undefeated team in the land, pure and simple. If Washington would have played BYU in the Holiday Bowl instead of playing in the Rose Bowl we wouldn't be having this conversation. BYU benefited from the pre-BCS system in the 80's and Utah did not in 2004 and 2008.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    April 14, 2011 10:59 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    "The crystal trophy is the BCS national championship trophy and BYU doesn't have one."

    The crystal football trophy in BYU's trophy case is identical to the crystal football trophy Auburn received in January.

    The trophy consists of a Waterford Crystal football affixed to an ebony base, and carries a value of over $30,000. The winning school retains permanent possession of the trophy, as a new one is awarded every year. The football portion of the trophy weighs approximately 8 pounds and together with the stand, it weights about 45 pounds and stands 34 inches tall. It is handmade by an artist in Ireland and takes nearly 3 months to complete.

    Its current name is actually "The American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) National Championship Trophy (or The Coaches' Trophy)," which was given this permanent name by the association in 2006.

    In 2009, the AFCA issued the trophy to schools whose teams were voted number one by the Coaches' Poll in years before the trophy was issued.

    Quite obviously, the AFCA respects the championships won by teams before the BCS every bit as much as they do the champions of the BCS era.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    April 14, 2011 11:00 p.m.

    4blade2007

    "...BYU is better off teaming with other religious schools albeit Catholic majority...."

    Something wrong with Catholics?

    That quote is bound to end up in the office of every University President and Athletic Department in the WCC.

    How will the WCC schools and fans react to BYU"s "we look down our nose at everybody"?

    How do the BYU administration and fans react when they perceive they are treated that way?

    Exactly.

    What goes around has a tendency come around.

  • '90Cougar Hampstead, NC
    April 14, 2011 11:18 p.m.

    Snack PAC | 2:25 p.m. April 14, 2011,

    Wow.

    In order:

    If you mean Utah "got lucky" when they got BCS bowl invites, the "luck" was going undefeated. Utah has done it twice in the last seven years. BYU hasn't done it in the last 26.

    If the "luck" is the Pac 12 invite, the media had been talking of the possibility for a few years.

    Since the formula for non-BCS teams to get a BCS bowl is an undefeated season (even media darling Boise State didn't get one last year after going 11-1), BYU wouldn't have been invited to one BCS bowl, let alone the "at least 5" you suggest.

    I watched the 1984 bowls. BYU struggled to put beat a 6-5 unranked team. Both Washington and Oklahoma looked much better to me than the Cougars did.

    Who knows - other than you, I guess - who would have won between the 1984 Michigan and 2004 Pittsburgh teams? Even bringing it up sounds pretty silly.

    But what really disturbs me is that 13 other mouth-breathers think your comments were worthy of praise.

    Again, wow....

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 14, 2011 11:24 p.m.

    FloridaUTE

    There is no such thing as a BCS/AP system.

    The AP is completely separate from the BCS. It doesn't use the BCS computers and it doesn't use a formal SOS of any kind.

    Washington didn't play in the Rose Bowl. Washington beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. Washington and Nebraska both received invitations to play in the Holiday Bowl, but both chose to play in higher profile bowls for more money instead of playing the #1-ranked team for a chance at the national championship.

    BYU would have gladly played any of the other Top 5 teams - Oklahoma, Washington, Nebraska (Florida was on probation and didn't play in a bowl) -- but BYU wasn't given that opportunity.

    Was it BYU's fault that pre-season #3 Pittsburgh, which BYU opened the season with on the road, tanked?

    btw, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3 in Provo in September 1985.

    BYU was voted #1 in 1984 because BYU was the most deserving team in 1984.

  • Dustin Idaho Falls, ID
    April 14, 2011 11:31 p.m.

    It's like we never left Jr. High. You hate the popular crowd unless you are in it. Utah and TCU got invited, so now they are part of the "in" group. I would love to believe that the government steps in and stops this garbage, but I think it will probably be about 30 years down the road.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    April 14, 2011 11:51 p.m.

    '90Cougar

    Your whole premise is flawed. I could point to dozens of national champions who struggled against inferior opponents, in several games throughout the season, and still won a national championship.

    The BCS formula for a non-BCS team isn't undefeated, it's highest ranked non-BCS team ranked in the Top 12.

    In

    1979 (11-0, ranked #9)
    1983 (10-1, ranked #9)
    1984 (12-0, ranked #1)
    1985 (11-2, ranked #9)
    1996 (13-1, ranked #5)

    BYU would have been that team.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 12:16 a.m.

    Mormon Ute again guessing on what may or may not be true. Either way you are never not wrong, especially when you are splitting hairs or thumping your scriptures dogging someone because they aren't the walk-on water fan you are.

    "It is shaped like a football and changes color some years. It has been gold colored, silver colored and bronze. I'm not sure what color it was in 1984, but it was not crystal and never has been."

    I am looking at a picture on my iPhone that I took this past fall on a rainy day at the School down South. I almost had tears in my eyes remembering back to that cold and foggy December day in 1984 when Bosco courageously secured that Coaches Trophy, which by the way is crystal. The other trophy is bronze. Either way, they are both National Championship trophies of the non-gymnastics type. Oh, and they are two steps away from a Heisman trophy. You really should stop in for a tour that will clear out cobwebs that you may have, Brother Mormon Ute.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    April 15, 2011 12:30 a.m.

    '90Cougar

    Here are the records of Utah's 2004 regular season opponents.

    7-5
    3-8
    3-8
    5-6
    7-5
    6-6
    2-9
    4-7
    4-7
    7-5
    5-6

    Three teams with winning records; one break-even record.

    Now compare that to BYU's 1979 regular season opponents.

    6-5
    3-8
    2-9
    6-5
    7-3-1
    4-8
    6-6
    4-7-1
    7-4
    6-6
    8-3

    FIVE teams with winning records and two with break-even records, including a 63-14 road win over an 8-3 team with a much better record than anybody Utah played in 2004, including their bowl opponent.

    BYU finished the 1979 regular season 11-0, ranked #9.
    Utah finished the 2004 regular season 11-0, ranked #5.

    Utah's BCS busting 2004 team simply had fortunate timing. They didn't do anything that BYU hadn't done 25 years earlier.

    It's amazing how many mouth-breathers have bought into the Utah 2004 BCS hype.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 12:43 a.m.

    @ I still can't spell BYU:
    "Two national championships rightfully belong to us and we all know it."

    Dear Sir or Madam, Who is "We All"? A friend of yours?

    1984 National Championship Trophies in the Hall of Fame case at the School down South: 2

    Football National Championship trophies that the "University of the Prophets" rightfully won, but are being held at other schools until a frat can get them back: 2

    Actual National Championship trophies up on the hill: 10*

    * Gymnastics (women)

    Okay, you win. You have more trophies than BYU. Go Lady Utes, sorry, Red Rocks! (Who by the way had more fans at one meet than the basketball team got in the whole season.)

    Ask Mormon Ute, he will tell you. He had two of the four comments on the little article about the Utah Red Rocks advancing to the Nationals.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 12:54 a.m.

    @ There You Go Again

    Easy does it big fella, easy does it. It's not like 4blade2007 is going to investigated by the Vatican. They have much bigger fish to fry (you know what I mean). And I'm sure all the WCC presidents don't care much about all of us have to say on these comment boards. I don't think 4blade2007 was taking a jab at Catholics. Take a chill pill and love, forgive and forget. That is what all good Christians do, right?

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    April 15, 2011 2:23 a.m.

    anti BCS,

    Not so fast, my friend!

    In 1979, Florida State was independent, or "non-BCS." They were ranked higher than BYU.

    In 1983, Miami was independent, and ranked higher than BYU.

    The 1984 BYU team was obviously the highest ranked "non-BCS" team.

    In 1985, both Penn State and Miami were still independent, and both were ranked higher than BYU going into the bowls.

    In 1996, BYU was the highest ranked "non-BCS" team.

    So, of your list of five BYU teams, only two were the "highest ranked non-BCS team" in their respective years.

    Like shooting fish in a barrel.....

    Don't misunderstand me. The five teams you listed were all very good football teams. But only two of them would have met the CURRENT BCS criteria for an invite to a BCS Bowl.

    The BCS system is flawed, and I would like it to be gone. But it isn't as flawed as most of you think it is. There are some teams out there who can make a legitimate complaint about being excluded from year to year, but the last BYU team that can even come close to making a reasonable complaint is the 2001 team.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    I think both sides of this argument just proved that the AP and BCS "National Champions" is a joke. We need a playoff.
    If BYU had the chance to play in a 1984 playoff, most polls agree BYU would have won. It is not BYU's fault they didn't get the chance to play the top teams.
    If Utah had the chance to play in a 2009 playoff, most polls agree Utah had a shot until after Florida scraped by Bama and Utah destroyed Bama. This makes no sense. It is not Utah's fault they did not get a chance to play Florida.
    Both systems are flawed.
    And 2004 was a rip off since the Big East even got into the Fiesta Bowl. Utah proved they should have had a real opponent.
    BYU and Utah are both deserving of more than they got.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 8:22 a.m.

    Don't give up the fight Dick Harmon. And Utah fans shouldn't either.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 15, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    Utah'95

    Sorry, if you're going to apply BCS era rules to 1984, you have to apply current BCS alignment to 1984, otherwise it makes no sense at all. The Big East didn't exist as a BCS conference in 1984, and SMU and TCU were part of the SWC which imploded before the BCS existed.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    TrueBlue,

    The AP trophy BYU has in their case was created long before the current crystal BCS trophy was even thought of. If anything, the BCS trophy is a crystal copy of the metal version (whatever the color) that the AP has handed out for decades before the BCS. So, I was simply correcting your misstatement. If you believe I was calling you a liar, so be it. I'm just correcting your statements with facts.

    You fail to prove that the Utes were given as much of a chance at the championship as BYU had. The facts are that in 2008 the Utes finished as the only undefeated team in the country, just like BYU did in 1984. We beat more highly ranked teams on the road to that undefeated record than BYU did in 1984. We absolutely dominated a team that was ranked #1 before they lost the SEC championship game. So don't try to minimize our accomplishment with your arrogant claim of superiourity based on the 1984 championship game. It was a different time with different rules and BYU would have no better chance today of winning it than we had in 2008.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    Okay, we're arguing over semantics about what kind of trophies BYU has in their case. The bottom line is the same opportunity is not available today to any team outside the BCS conferences as it was to BYU in 1984.

    Many of you misunderstand my motivation in pointing this out. I am not trying to dimish BYU's title. I was cheering for them that year as well. As the only undefeated team in the country under the system that was in place then, they deserved it. What I trying to do is defend my team against so many BYU fans who try to diminish our accomplishments in the last 10 years and claim that somehow were don't deserve recognition for them. Many of you claim we haven't earned our place in the PAC-12. No, we have not won a national title in football, but we were not given the same opportunity BYU had in 1984, because the rules were changed to prevent it.

    Now we have a real shot at something bigger, if we elevate our game sufficiently. So don't bring the clouds to our day in the sun.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:24 a.m.

    skywalker,

    How many of you BYU fans have downplayed our win over Pitt in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl out of jealousy over us being the first to break into the BCS? How many of you BYU fans downplayed our win last season over #15 Pitt when their season tanked? I'm not saying it's right, but you are whinning about people giving back to you what you dish out.

  • Ibleedcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:39 a.m.

    Troll nation, angst not. Stop stomping around scraping your nuckles, gnashing your teath and pulling out all your hair over your percieved BCS slight!

    Here's a way to get through it, just think of the BCS as just a big honor code office. Then tell youself "if you don't like the rules don't be part of the organization.

    You can thank me later!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:40 a.m.

    Several of you are now making comments about gymnastics and our titles there and then throwing my name into that conversation. Look at my comments. Have I ever been disrespectful to BYU or its 1984 championship? Have I ever claimed we have won more titles than BYU? Have I ever claimed we won a championship in football?

    I have merely stated we deserved a shot in 2008 and the current system prevented that. I have also stated that BYU won their title under a different system. I have also stated, based on the strength of schedule component in the current system, that even if BYU went undefeated now they wouldn't get a shot at the title. That's not disrespecting BYU, it is merely stating they are in the same boat as the Utes.

    I am happy to be a Ute and proud of my teams success, but I don't engage in putting down my opponent to boost my team and I'd appreciate it if those who do that would leave my name out of it.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    April 15, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Riddles in the Dark,

    My comments were in rebuttal to what anti BCS said in his post: "The BCS formula for a non-BCS team isn't undefeated, it's highest ranked non-BCS team ranked in the Top 12....BYU would have been that team."

    The research I did indicates that BYU WOULD have been that team in 1984 and 1996, but WOULD NOT have been that team in 1979, 1983, and 1985. "That team" would have been Florida State in 1979, Miami in 1983, and Miami in 1985.

    I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of BYU football teams, just fact-checking what a fellow poster said.

  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    April 15, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    "just think of the BCS as just a big honor code office. Then tell youself "if you don't like the rules don't be part of the organization."

    bleedcrimson,

    Perfect. I think the tds can get thier head around this concept.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 15, 2011 9:50 a.m.

    Mormon Ute

    The AP trophy is not the Crystal Football trophy.

    Read the post by Solomon the Wise; that should clear up your confusion.

    BYU actually has FIVE national championship trophies in its trophy case, one from each of the five major organizations that selected a national champion in 1984. All five championships are recognized by the NCAA on its official website:

    NCAA FBS Football Championship History
    Year Champion Selecting Organization
    2003 Louisiana State BCS
    2003 Southern California AP, FWAA
    1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches
    1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches
    1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches

    AP - Associated Press
    Coaches - AFCA Coaches' Poll (the Crystal Football trophy)
    FWAA - Football Writers Association of America
    NFF - National Football Foundation
    USAT/CNN - USA Today/Cable News Network

    Your "correction" was incorrect.

    As far as the AP national championship is concerned, the exact same opportunity exists today that existed for BYU in 1984. USC 2003 is proof of that. The Trojans won the 2003 AP National Championship without playing in the BCS championship game.

    LSU and USC shared a split national championship in 2003.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 15, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    Utah'95

    Your problem is you misapplied your fact checking. If you're going to apply BCS rules to 1984, you have to apply current BCS conference alignment, otherwise the comparison makes no sense.

    For example, the SWC, which included Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, TCU, and SMU, would certainly have been a BCS conference in 1984, but it went out of business before the BCS was created. In your scenario, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, TCU, and SMU would have been considered non-BCS teams in 1984 because they weren't in a BCS conference? Florida State, Miami, and Penn State are all BCS teams based on current BCS conference alignment.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    TrueBlue,

    I concede on the trophy arguement and regret ever getting into that. There are way too many different trophies handed out each year. Just one more reason why a play off is needed.

    Now to counter your contention the BYU still has the same opportunity that it had in 1984 to get an AP title without the BCS title. First, you use USC as your example and I must say, no disrespect to BYU, but in tradition, history, recruiting, talent, coaching, schedule, and basically any other way you look at it USC has a higher level program than BYU. So comparing to them isn't going to get you much mileage. Let's use the Utes 2008 season as a better comparison. In 2008 we beat 3 top 20 teams (BYU, TCU and Alabama) in going undefeated. All of those teams were ranked in the top 20 when we played them and were still in the top 20 at the end of the bowl games, but no title was given us. So BYU will have to beat more than 3 ranked teams to even be considered. They didn't have to do that in 1984.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 15, 2011 10:48 a.m.

    Mormon Ute

    Thanks for conceding the trophy argument.

    As far as the AP national championship, you're correct, USC does have a much richer tradition, but circumstances change from year to year.

    The problem many fans have with understanding college football history is they usually don't understand the background. Seldom does any team come out of nowhere to win a national championship in the polls. With preseason polls, a new pecking order is established to begin each season. It's nearly impossible for a team that starts out unranked to surpass teams that start in the Top 10 and remain undefeated, especially when those teams at the top are considered "traditional powers" like Ohio State, Texas, and USC.

    The thing that fans who only look at BYU's 1984 regular season and bowl opponent fail to understand, is that there was MUCH more to BYU winning the 1984 national championship, than the 1984 season... (continued)

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 15, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    (continued)

    BYU's 1979, 1980, 1981, and 1983 seasons were just as much responsible as 1984.

    In those years leading up to 1984, BYU established a national football reputation which made 1984 possible.

    In 1983, BYU stumbled in their first game, then steamrolled through the rest of the season, beating two Top 15 teams on the road and finishing #7 in the AP and Coaches poll on an 11-game winning streak.

    The momentum from 1983 quickly propelled BYU back into the Top 10 early in the 1984 season. After that, BYU just kept winning as other teams took themselves out of the national championship race.

    When BYU finally rose to #1 at the end of the regular season, BYU's schedule was heavily scrutinized for over a month before the final polls came out.

    To say that BYU's SOS was not considered in the final polls is completely inaccurate.

    BYU may not have been the best team in 1984, but the Cougars were the most deserving team to win the national championship.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 12:34 p.m.

    TrueBlue,

    You are right about the body of work idea and I would never seek to diminish BYU's accomplishments in consistency and excellence over they years. What I have trouble with is the Cougar fans unwillingness to achknowledge a great accomplishment by an opponent in a system that is purposely flawed to give certain teams the upper hand.

    Should the Utes have been the champs in 2008? I think so, but what nobody should argue against is that we should have had the chance to prove it.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    @ There You Go Again

    Easy does it big fella, easy does it. It's not like 4blade2007 is going to investigated by the Vatican. They have much bigger fish to fry (you know what I mean). And I'm sure all the WCC presidents don't care much about all of us have to say on these comment boards. I don't think 4blade2007 was taking a jab at Catholics. Take a chill pill and love, forgive and forget. That is what all good Christians do, right?

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    @ I still can't spell BYU:
    "Two national championships rightfully belong to us and we all know it."

    Dear Sir or Madam, Who is "We All"? A friend of yours?

    1984 National Championship Trophies in the Hall of Fame case at the School down South: 2

    Football National Championship trophies that the "University of the Prophets" rightfully won, but are being held at other schools until a frat can get them back: 2

    Actual National Championship trophies up on the hill: 10*

    * Gymnastics (women)

    Okay, you win. You have more trophies than BYU. Go Lady Utes, sorry, Red Rocks! (Who by the way had more fans at one meet than the basketball team got in the whole season.)

    Ask Mormon Ute, he will tell you. He had two of the four comments on the little article about the Utah Red Rocks advancing to the Nationals.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    April 15, 2011 1:34 p.m.

    Mormon Ute

    I agree, the whole idea of using polls and bowls to determine a national champion is a flawed system with inherent biases.

    In 1984, BYU should have been given a chance to prove themselves against the #2 team.

    In 2004 and 2008, Utah should have been given a chance to prove themselves against the #1 team.

    In reality, the BCS was not created to determine a true national champion, it was created to protect the power and financial interests of the Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, and PAC 10 conferences, Notre Dame, and the bowls. The Big East was only included to give the BCS conferences the majority they needed to maintain control of major college football.

    It's ironic that a playoff would produce at least a half billion more revenue than the BCS and a true national champion, but the BCS presidents won't even consider a playoff because it would destroy their monopolistic control of major college football.

  • Y-Not-u Bluffdale, UT
    April 15, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    All of the Utah-BYU banter aside, the BSC is bad for sports due to the lack of fairness in many ways. It needs to go away and a playoff system is a more fair way for a true champ to be named.

    I hope for Utah's success as well as BYU's. It is good for all of us, like it or not. It will be fun to play earlier in the season, hopefully from this time forward.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    April 15, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    TrueBlue,

    Ironic indeed. It really sheds a lot of light on their true motivation. Of course this past summer a chink in the armor of their unified voice appeared when the PAC-10's efforts to raid the Big-12 were foiled. They obviously only vote together enough to keep their stangle hold on the power and the money. Hopefully the discontent in the ranks will continue to fester and grow to a level where the BCS alliance will eventually weaken enough for the university presidents to make a move. The Fiesta Bowl's troubles have added additional cracks that hopefully will grow.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    April 15, 2011 5:37 p.m.

    To Mormon Ute - As a BYU fan, I appreciate your comments, and find them reasonable even if somewhat biased in favor of your team. Good for you and your loyalty. At least your comments aren't ridiculously trolly, like some (cough Hedgehog! cough cough). Seems you have healthy respect for BYU's accomplishments, as I do for Utah's. Anyone thinking Utah's BCS winning seasons were not highly impressive are basically bias-blinded morons.

    While not necessarily morons, I'd say those who believe the Michigan team BYU beat in 1984 was the same team that went 6-5 through the regular season is ignorant of the facts. That Michigan team started the season dominantly, as an NC contender, but lost several games after injuries to key players. By the time they were rested up for BYU, it was a fully healthy Michigan team. Despite cheap shots that injured Bosco, BYU still pulled it out. It was an incredible win over a VERY good team. The next game, BYU pummeled Washington to open the season, when everyone thought BYU would be taught a lesson by the REAL 1984 NC. BYU was fully deserving in 1984.

  • '90Cougar Hampstead, NC
    April 16, 2011 2:55 a.m.

    DSB,

    OK, thank you for the spin on the 6-5 Michigan team. They may have been highly thought of in the preseason, but for whatever reason, they managed to lose 5 regular season games.

    They may have been a very good 6-5 team, whatever than means. But they never should have been the opponent of the team defending their #1 ranking in bowl season.

    The BCS is many things, and a lot of them are not good or fair. But at least it assures that an unranked #1 won't face an unranked 6-5 team for all the marbles ever again. BYU deserved a shot at Washington or Oklahoma, and vice versa.

  • Oh, please! Saint George, UT
    April 16, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    @FloridaUTE | 8:51 p.m. April 14, 2011
    Let's just say they [BYU and the U] both had great teams in their respective years.

    Thank you! Let's enjoy our own successes and applaud others when they achieve as well. The mark of greatness is... when a game ends, the opposing teams (having played with sportmanship) congratulate each other on a well-played game, and everyone goes home satisfied that he/she/they did their best.

    Let us enjoy our respective teams successes and really get our pants in an uproar by the things in life which TRULY matter...college sports (fun as they are) aren't in that category.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    April 16, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    '90Cougar - no spin, just facts. And, I don't dispute that BYU should not have been playing any 6-5 team, regardless of how good they might have been at the time of the bowl game. Michigan wasn't just thought highly of in the preseason, they opened against reigning NC Miami and beat them. Injuries destroyed their season. That's not "whatever reason." Great players in key positions is THE reason teams win football games.

    I agree the BCS system would have prevented the injustice of BYU playing a 6-5 team. That was never my point.

    My whole point is that it's ignorant to say "BYU barely beat a 6-5 team in its bowl game, so their national championship is not legitimate." The recuperated Michigan team BYU played that night was hungry to redeem their season and to humiliate what they considered a wannabe program, and could well have beaten either Washington (although, admittedly, they did lose a game to Washington earlier in the year, when they were still healthy, by about the same margin they lost to BYU) or Oklahoma at that time.

    Spin however you like, just don't be ignorant.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    April 16, 2011 8:07 p.m.

    In the past I have always felt that the BCS system was very unfair but now that Utah is part of it I feel much better.