It's amazing how many articles Harmon can write about the BCS. How about a
little creativity Harmon?
At the very least there should be a playoff among the top 4 ranked teams. That
would disrupt the bowl system very little. 2 of the BCS bowls would be playoff
bowls and the winners would play in the NC. A better approach would
be to take the top 12 ranked teams and give the top 4 a bye. Have the bottom 8
play off to face the top 4. The winners of that round would play each other to
produce the NC game teams.2 of the 12 teams might (unlikely) play a
max of 4 after season games instead of just 1 bowl game (3 extra games). Most
teams would play 2 or less extra games. That is not a big problem for big time
football programs. The top 12 teams usually include non BCS teams
and some teams who placed 2nd in BCS conferences. It would be a vast
improvement and would still leave the minor bowls in place. It also should
increase the TV audience for the playoff bowls. Going to the top 12
give ample opportunity for non BCS teams to make the playoffs as long as the
rankings are semi honest.
myself | 11:37 p.m. April 13, 2011 Salt Lake City, UTIt's amazing
how many articles Harmon can write about the BCS. How about a little creativity
Harmon?--------------And on a subject so irrelevant the Wall Street
Journal has written on it, the President has commented on it and ratings prove
is popular. Why would anyone write on such a subject?
Utah now being in a AQ BCS League changes nothing about my absolute hatred of
this corrupt system. I would hope that the U's President Young doesn't sell out
and would always vote to give access to the NC to the team who wins out in a
playoff. Regardless of who that team is. Having lived in Big 12 country I know
first hand the arrogance of Texas Longhorn fans who claimed that their program's
history gave them a pass and an automatic inside track to the NC as long as they
didn't lose 2 (yes TWO) games in the same year. They also tried to justify that
a 2 loss Longhorn team was still more deserving than any undefeated non-AQ Team.
I hope the U, it's fans, and Administration never forget how it
felt after winning the Sugar Bowl and still getting dismissed as not being
worthy of consideration to sit among the elite at the big kids' table.
You could end the BCS tomorrow and install a playoff, but I can assure you, the
Team in Provo still wouldn't be playing for a national championship anytime soon
or even ever. Ain't going to happen. Sorry Harmon.
I'll be very interested to see if Utah (and TCU) embrace the current BCS system.
I hope they don't. We'll see if the oppressed become the
@ I still can't say it, has to post again with his, Team in Provo.
Here is something you will never say bro, "Utah, National Football
Champions!" Or, "A Utah football player, winner of the Heisman
Trophy." For a reality check, you should visit the museum at
the UIP (University in Provo) and see the only National Campionship trophy and
only Heisman Trophy that have been won by a team in this state. As a, go ahead,
say it, BYU fan, I could care less if I see BYU ever win another National
Championship. Been there, done that. I was in San Diego that night and continue
to share memories with the champ QB, Robbie Bosco. We've enjoyed the
"buffet" and are still full, while the Team in Salt Lake is starving
will never build a trophy case to house a Football National Championship Trophy.
Enjoy all those Lady Ute gymnastics trophies. That is as close as you'll get to
the Team in Provo's reality. Out!
If the sample size was limited to the top 4, the BCS computers would find ways
to not allow non-AQ teams to be part of the top 4. After all, a computer
derives the numbers for formulas. As for the team from provo, it doesn't
matter. As long as there was a way to play their way in, just like with the U
today, that's all anyone asks.BSU, and TCU have both been worthy
candidates in recent years but the computers didn't allow the matchup to take
place. Time to hose the BCS and it's corrupt executives.
I would hope Utah fans continue to fight against the BCS system that unfairly
kept their 2004 team out of a national championship opportunity.Even
though they're now in an AQ league, it doesn't make the system right or fair.
@ I Still Can't Say It -Ah, the prophetic voice, wandering in the
desert. Tell me, did your soothesaying get basketball right this year,
"BYU will make it to the Sweet Sixteen, but no further. Ain't going to
happen. Sorry Harmon. So let it be written, so let it be done."Prior to the "Bowl Scandal" (sheesh, who woulda guessed?), I would
have voted to settle on a playoff format and let the bowls figure out a system
that still allows them to come into play.Now, I don't know. Shoot,
they could take a year or two to figure it out, but for Pete's sake, NCAA, let
the captives go free!Whether or not BYU ever rises to the top again.
Let's see...the BCS is being approached from the judicial branch and the
legislative branch, and the current president has said he will do what he can to
see a playoff happen. This should be an interesting experiment in politics.
Think of all the tax revenue Obama and his cronies could get if he created a
playoff system in College Football. Go get those rich and greedy people Mr.
Y-Not-u,If you are so fulfilled by what happened almost three
decades ago, then why watch football in the new century? By your logic, BYU
should have closed up shop back in 1985, knowing that "it can't get any
better than this."But to most sports fans, "what have you
done for me lately" matters.I am a loyal Ute fan, but I have to
agree that the Utes' chances ever winning a national championship in college
football are very slim. That being said, I hope to be proven wrong. Hopefully
sometime soon.---------------------Regarding the BCS:It has several flaws, but it continues to get better. That being said,
I would still much prefer a playoff of some kind.Since 2004, the
formula for non-BCS teams, while arguably unfair, has been simple - finish the
season undefeated and you get a BCS invite.Utah, TCU, Boise State,
and Hawaii have all gone undefeated in the last 7 years, three of them twice.
For Cougar fans who aren't content to look back on the ol' glory days, just hope
your team goes undefeated. You'll see the Cougars get a BCS invite - I promise.
Why has it taken so long for legal "experts" to see that the only way
to bring the BCS to justice is through anti-trust legislation? Could it be
because the old boy network in Congress and in Justice have secure ties to the
same conference institutions which illegally perpetuate this financial thuggery
upon the "unworthy" masses?This has never been about
fairness and never will be. It is about the blatant theft of resources by a few
self seen elite conferences. The corrupt distribution of wealth within the BCS
ought to send both right and left wingers ballistic, but for some reason it
hasn't. Why? Money talks and the BCS walks.
The two bowl games between the top four teams were very close games but I
guarantee the viewing audiences were not anywhere near what they could/would
have been had a format been followed: 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 with the winners meeting
in a contest for the almost real national championship. Only the fans from the
states involved even watched the two bowl games. NCAA basketball was proof that
rankings and seeds are completely flawed. Football rankings are nothing more
than a crap shoot. The beauty of the Big Dance is that 68 teams had a shot and
that every team has to bring their "A" game every night. None of the
#1 seeds even made the final four.
Follow the money.
Seems to me what Dick was getting at was to take a look at what happened in
Basketball this year. Under a BCS typs system the winner this year may not have
even Had a chance be in the tournament.This happens often in football under the
current system.Every team ought to feel they can have an equal chance if they
have an exceptional season. Utah should have had that chance at least twice in
recent years,also Boise State, TCU and I'm sure others.I'm not sure what will
cause change,but if we stop talking about it and writing about it it will never
change.Kudo's to those who try to keep it on the front burner and in the minds
of those who have influence to help make reasonable changes.
The days of the BCS are numbered and when future generations look back on the
BCS-era of college football history they'll marvel at how stupid so many people
could have been to be using computer formulas to help decide the major college
football national champion. They'll laugh at old timers who try to
explain that preserving bowl "traditions" was more important than
having a playoff.The only chance Utah has of ever winning a national
championship in football is through a playoff. The BCS computers will never put
the Utes in the BCS championship game.
Nothing is perfect, that includes the BCS. However, the BCS is great!!I liken Harmon's attitude to someone who secretly desires what they can't have
and haven't earned yet. Kind of like someone who lives in a trailer park
jealously admiring the mansions of Beverly Hills. Harmon, the
answer to all your woes is easy. Win a couple of BCS Bowls and attract the
attention of the elite BCS Conferences. TCU and Utah did it. It's not rocket
science.I really wish that BYU can beef up and improve their game so
that one day they too will be invited to play with the big boys of the BCS.
Until then, whining is counter-productive and won't help BYU win any BCS
Bowls.Happy Easter everyone!!
The question is: What is to stop the big six from starting a new football system
that excludes everyone not part of those existing six conferences? We already
have different levels within collage football being played. Why not another?
Just because someone has the ability to field a team in a sport, does not
qualify them to be part of highest level of play in that sport. Can any team
play in the NBA, MLB, or the NFL? What is to stop this from happening in collage
football? Presently the NCAA has membership of the big six but they could leave
without notice. They could and would form their own football organization. That
organization has the potential to take all the really important bowls with it
and leave the rest to the "sisters of the poor" and the NCAA.
There's absolutely no valid reason why D-1A football can't have a 16-game
playoff, just like D-1AA, D-II, and D-III already have.Take every
conference champion that is ranked in at least one poll, plus the next 5 or 6
highest ranked teams (both polls combined).Seed the teams 1 through
16.Play the opening round on the home field of the higher seed the
first Saturday after Christmas, which would guarantee good attendance and reduce
travel expenses.Quarter-finals the next Saturday in four of the
traditional Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta, or Rose Bowl sites.Semi-finals and final the next two Saturdays at two of those same sites.The remaining bowls could still be played, but not on playoff
Saturdays.The tournament would last one week longer than the Big
Dance, and only four teams would be playing past January 8th.At the
latest, the championship game would be played on January 22nd, in most years,
even earlier.Most schools don't start winter semester until the 2nd
week of January, so the playoff would have almost no affect on student athletes.
''That organization has the potential to take all the really important bowls
with it and leave the rest to the "sisters of the poor" and the
NCAA."Silent lurker,I agree, and feel the Big 6
will do just that if pressured. Leaving the Kraft Hunger bowl and the
"NC" for the "sister of the poor".
To all you U fans. It was because of the money. No more, no less.
Mr Harmon, this bcs stuff is getting so old and will continue to be. Please let
the rest of your staff put it to rest and let us know when this bcs do DIE. It
will die some day which I hope soon. So, put it to rest!
I wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than a full championship tournament
involving the conference champions of all the FBS level conferences. The
independents would get in by being ranked above a certain level. Seeding would
be done the same way basketball is. The bowls could still be involved by
bidding to host the different playoff games and the championship, just like host
sites currently do in basketball. Any bowl games that don't win a bid to host a
playoff game could then pick from the teams that are left to play in their bowl
games on a first come first served basis, kind of like the NIT in basketball.
That's just my idea of how it should work.
Silent Lurker"What is to stop the big six from starting a new
football system that excludes everyone not part of those existing six
conferences?"What makes you think they'd include the dregs of
the big six conference in the new super conference? Carrying your
absurdity a little farther, what is to stop the elite 16 teams from creating
their own super conference and leaving out ALL of the "undeserving,
unwashed" rabble? What do the Iowa State's, Indiana's, and
Utah's of college football add to the mix of elite programs?Welcome
to the new National Championship Conference (NCC)Texas, Texas
A&M, Oklahoma, USC, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Florida
State, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, and Notre DameBe
careful not to get too smug with your big boy conference membership. Being in
one of the big six conferences, doesn't make U one of the big boys.
Looks like MR. Harmon is running out of things to write on!!! Dick,
why not go out and politic for a "JIMMER BOWL" in the cereal section
of your grocery store!!
Unless cooler heads prevail and a national championship playoff is adopted, the
super conference scenario is much more plausible than the super six conferences
division. Texas is already moving in that direction with their own television
network and the other elite programs are sure to follow.The BCS is
dead. It's just a matter of time before an anti-trust lawsuit, congressional
legislation, or its own internal jealousy and bickering, will tear the BCS
Someday we'll have a 16-team playoff and the BCS will be nothing more than a
Gotta laugh at all of these pseudo BCS supporters. In 2004 and 2008,
these exact same fans were whining about the unfairness of the system that
didn't give the Utes a chance to play for the national championship. Many of them still claim that Utah was the best team and actually won the
national championship because the Utes were undefeated. Neither is true. The BCS gave U a chance to sit at the rickety card table and enjoy the
little kids meal. A playoff would have given U a chance to sit at the big boys
table and enjoy the feast.Despite the BCS, BYU has enjoyed the
feast, something U will never do as long as the BCS exists.
A playoff that includes every Division I-A (FBS) conference champion is the
answer. No polls, No bowls, No out of conference games will count.
Independents like BYU need to join a conference to be included. This would make every regular season game even more important and exciting.
Equal access for all. That will be the only pure National Championship.
@ I still can't say it;"You could end the BCS tomorrow and install a
playoff, but I can assure you, the Team in Provo still wouldn't be playing for a
national championship anytime soon or even ever. Ain't going to happen.Can you tell me where you got your crystal ball? I see a lot of potential if
marketed right. Can you also show me how well you have done predicting the
future in the past few years. I need reasonable proof.Just because
you don't want BYU to do well doesn't mean it won't happen. BYU has a
better chance of going to a BCS game now than Utah does using the same formula
Utah used twice. Play acouple of good teams, a few respectable teams and several
cupcakes, throw in a generous helping of lucky breaks, go undefeated and your
in.BYU will play more tough teams than Utah did but this year they play
several cupcakes also. Utah will still get a few easy games but it will be
difficult to avoid 3-4 losses on the average year. A playoff will give all
schools equality regarding a NC.
Someone with some clout needs to take on the BCS cartel. Unfortunately,
institutions like Smith College, a private women's college, the University of
Chicago, known for academics, not athletics or UCSD something less than a
mid-major university don't exactly pose a threat. The problem is, the tail
is wagging the dog. Intercollegiate athletics have become so big and powerful
that universities have lost focus. When bowl games and the final four get more
press than scholarly achievements, something is wrong.Given that most of
the big state supported research institutions in powerhouse conferences are at
the root of the problem, there seems to be a simple and obvious
solution...withhold research funding and federal dollars until these
universities fix the BCS corruption machine.
AZCougarAs with many corrupt systems, all it may take is one
sympathetic ruling by one sympathetic judge to bring the whole BCS cartel to its
knees.The vast majority of fans already support a playoff; all they
need is a leader to get the ball moving toward real change. That's exactly why
we don't already have a +1 game, because the bowls that control major college
football know that a +1 game would open the door to a playoff.
Waaaaaaaah ittttt hurts sooooo bad still even after all these months. Good for
you BYU fans project your bitter dissapointment for being left out of the BSC
onto the evil BCS!!Time to move on!
1. The BCS is corrupted by money.2. The BCS is not about fairness or
championships.3. Will BCS universities voluntarily give up money?
Unlikely.4. The BCS controversy involves the MWC and BYU, but it is not
about the MWC or BYU. 5. Any judgment on BCS fairness does not hinge on
BYU's W-L record. Win-loss records are seasonal and fluctuate, but the fairness
issue stays constant.
IbleedcrimsonKeep telling yourself that when BYU is back in the
national spotlight as one of the pioneers of the next generation of independent
football programs, while Utah fans are becoming more and more disgruntled about
their endless string of 7-5 seasons and feeling even more picked on, because USC
just announced that it wanted an even bigger share of the PAC 12 pie or it was
bolting the conference for independence.
Ok Snack PAC let's add when the martians land and the sun rises in the West
while you're at it. Since were making the future up as we go along.
skywalker,So how did Oregon get there? With Utah being in the same
league now, there is no rational reason why Utah can't get there by doing the
same thing Oregon did. It is really that simple.
anti BCS,BYU had the good fortune of being voted national champion
before the BCS existed. In those days it was entirely up to the AP voters and
the coaches. There was no coalition of conferences working together to keep the
power, glory and money concentrated in the hands of a the few. In fact the BCS
was created to prevent that from ever happening again. However, the
Utes have persevered and with a lot of hard work earned our way into one of the
conferences that will give us that opportunity as long as we keep working hard
and improving. There is no doubt that much hard work is still ahead, but to say
the U will never get there is simply sour grapes on your part and not based on
rational thinking.You talk as if BYU somehow conquerred the BCS when
in fact they never have even sniffed a BCS bowl game. People like to
conveniently forget that we were the first team to satisfy the outrageous BCS
criteria to play in one of their games and then we also became the first to do
it twice. We earned our place.
@Utah 95No BYU did not pack it in after the 1984 season.since then,A Heisman2 Outland Trophies2 more Davey
O'Brian trophies (4 total)7 inductees into the College Hall of Fame
(Detmer's coming)10 more or so Consensus All-Americans (16 total)A
Doak Walker trophy3 or 4 more Sammy Baugh trophies(7 total)Conference Championships....really wanna go there?NFL MVP's-twiceSuper Bowl MVP-onceTheir own National Network and a multi-million
dollar contract with ESPN to show their games, Football and Basketball.No BYU has not been frozen in time.But apparently Utah clings to
yesterday, with their tattered Fiesta Bowl (2004), and Sugar Bowl(2008) Banners
still hanging on the University of Eccles Stadium. I guess the Utah
"closet" of Fame isn't big enoug to accomodate.go Wazzu
Sorry Otis Spurlock, talking about the BCS monopoly is not whining. Your
gratuitous insult is too pejorative and itself falls into the category of
The BCS needs to be investigated under RICO statutes. The corruption involved
in this group is beyond corrupt. What has come to light regarding the Fiesta
Bowl and their use of funds by a tax exempt organization should require a
federal investigation. The other bowls should also be investigated to see how
they are spending tax exempt monies.The way the BCS has treated non
BCS schools, i.e. Boise State, TCU and Utah is enough to go after the BCS on
antitrust laws.To hell with the bowls, a playoff system should be
instituted by the NCAA that allows the Butlers and VCUs to have a shot. Lower
division NCAA teams have playoffs and it works just fine. The phony argument
that players don't have the time simply is not true. It is all about the big
boys and the bowls getting rich off an unjust system.
Conference champions plus five in a 16-bracket, placed by the draw. The plus
five could be seconds in their conferences. Use the major bowls as the last
games, four weeks and its settled on the field.
TJ,You really believe BYU's road to a BCS game is easier than the
Utes? Let me explain why you're wrong. You say you see us losing 3 to 4 games
a year. I agree that will be likely for the first several years. Even with
that we have a shot. If those 3 or 4 losses come in non-conference games or
against teams in the North Division, we can win our division and play in the
Conference Championship game. We win that game and we're in.
TJ,This is the BYU part of my response to you:Now, let's
look at BYU's chances. First of all, show me in the BCS bylaws where BYU is
given a shot at a BCS game... Oh, that's right, they're not. Only the
mid-major conferences and Notre Dame are specifically given that, if they are
ranked high enough. So BYU has no guarantee no matter how highly they are
ranked. The first hurdle BYU has to get over is playing the right teams at the
right time to be ranked high enough. The second hurdle will be teams like Boise
State, Nevada and Hawaii who will get an at large spot ahead of BYU by virtue of
the BCS rules. So BYU can only get in if none of the mid-Major conferences or
Notre Dame qualify. I see those as longer odds than what Utah has.
Bluto,Do you really believe BYUtv was created for sports? Even once
BYU breaks out of the MWC and all its events can be shown on BYUtv, would you
care to guess what percentage of the programing will be sports related? So
saying BYU sports has its own national network is stretching the truth quite a
Mormon Ute;Point is taken and has some validity but; Utah has to win
enough games against the southern division opponents to get to the conference
championship and they then have to win the conference championship game. They
also could go 11-1, losing to a division foe that goes undefeated in the
division and still be left out. This will be an extremely hard road to travel
successfully. If BYU has a very good season they could go undefeated in the next
year or two and end up in the same place.I honestly hope that Utah does
this as I am a fan of their coach and thier players. It's the bottom of the
barrel 5% of the fans and their lack of class that I have a problem with.Nothing against the Utes but I am really hoping that this all becomes
irrelevant and the BCS is shoved back under the rock they came from so the top
16 teams can play for a real championship in the near future.
Mormon Ute U simply got lucky; right place at the right time.Using the same criteria BCS criteria, BYU would have played in at least
5 BCS games by now if the BCS had existed since 1980, and there would have been
no chance for jealous Utah fans to whine, because BYU would have beaten
Washington or Oklahoma or Nebraska in the championship game.The
Pittsburgh team Utah beat in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl would have been stomped by the
Michigan team BYU beat in the 1984 Holiday Bowl.BYU earned its place
by convincing the majority of voters from all 5 major selecting organizations
that BYU was the most deserving team to win the Major College Football National
Championship in 1984.BYU finished 1984 on a 24-game winning streak,
including road wins over two Top 15 teams, and back-to-back Top 10 finishes;
Utah has never come close to matching that.For winning a BCS game,
you're one of four teams to get an Orange, or Sugar, or Fiesta, or Rose Bowl
trophy.For finishing #1, you get a Crystal Football National
Championship Trophy,and inclusion on the list of National Champions!
Spent a week in Arizona visiting relatives and they had 8 days of articles
outlining the corruption of the Fiesta Bowl. IT was not pretty. And who has
the BCS asked to investigate the Fiesta Bowl as to whether it should remain on
the the Championship Bowls, non other than another Bowl President. What a bunch
of baloney. The former Arizona State Attorney General and the
Fiesta Bowl lobbyist did a week-long investigation and said nothing was wrong.
It was not until the assistant to the then President of the Fiesta Bowl talked
to the new President of the Board and told him they were being led astray. They
brought in an outside group and they uncovered corruption and misuse of funds.
$33,000 for a birthday party for the then President Junker. The corruption went
on and on. They need this same group to investigate every single
BCS game and I think hey will find essentially the same stuff. The
NCAA is supposed to oversee this stuff, but the NCAA is the President of the
Universities. The majority got together in a back room and rammed this Money
rainfall for them down the throats of the others.
Wow first revisionist future now revisionist past, you have quite a talent for
spin Snack PAC.
"The Pittsburgh team Utah beat in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl would have been
stomped by the Michigan team BYU beat in the 1984 Holiday Bowl."snatchpack,If I'm not mistaken Pitt had a winning record and won
the Big East. Michigan on the other hand ended up 6th in the big 10.Not sure if pitt would have been "stomped" by a team that shouldn't
have gone to a bowl game.
Mormon Ute"BYU had the good fortune of being voted national
champion before the BCS existed. In those days it was entirely up to the AP
voters"In 2003, USC had the good fortune of being voted
national champion DURING the BCS era. Today, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, it is still
entirely up to the AP voters!The AP has absolutely no connection to
the BCS.USC didn't even play in the BCS championship game.Interestingly, it's the AP poll that Utah fans use when talking about their #4
and #2 "BCS teams" in 2004 and 2008. If Utah fans were intellectually
honest about the BCS, they'd be using the Coaches poll, the official BCS poll,
which only ranked the Utes #5 and #4.USC earned its 2003 AP National
Championship in EXACTLY the same way BYU earned its 1984 AP National
Championship, by being ranked #1 in the final AP poll.A fact that
even jealous Utah fans can't dispute, they can only try to spin.
Harmon sure likes to complain...let me guess:his knee is
down....BYU would be national champions if they weren't so admirable
in having such a strict honor code...BYU would be in the Pac-12 if
they were allowed to play on Sunday, instead of just practice and have coaches
shows on sunday.
"If I'm not mistaken Pitt had a winning record and won the Big East.
Michigan on the other hand ended up 6th in the big 10"Since
when have records ever been the only deciding factor?Utah(9-4) 0UNLV(2-10) 27Pitt 2004 finished in a four-way tie for first in a
very weak seven-team Big East conference.Michigan 1984 was a MUCH
better team and would have stomped Pitt 2004.
Mount Olympus Utah fans simply like to whine about championships
Utah "deserved" to win, but didn't, and a championship BYU did win,
but didn't "deserve" to win in the crimson-colored glasses world of
Snack PAC,Pure speculation on your part. You cannot say BYU would
have ranked high enough in the BCS system to have played in 5 of their bowls,
because you don't know. Unless you've done all the math, and there's no way you
could dig up all the right numbers to do it. Some of the systems they use to
rank the teams didn't exist. As for winning in the Championship game, again
just pure speculation. Not even based on any fact. Let's stick with facts.
We've played in two you've played in zero.More speculation about
Pitt vs. Michigan and there were plenty of teams across the country that were
criticizing BYU's win over Michigan as not being National Title worthy.
Michigan wasn't even ranked in the top 25 going into the game with a 6-5 record
and BYU barely beat them. We dominated Pitt in 2004. As I have said before BYU
doesn't have one of those crystal trophies either and has a hard road to getting
anti BCS,I really don't see what relevance USC has in this
discussion. I simply pointed out the fact that BYU won only because the BCS
didn't exist and didn't manipulate the system like they do today. Today, the
system is designed to keep that from happening. So for BYU fans to claim they
have an easier road to a title is wishful thinking. The BCS was created to keep
BYU (and other mid-majors) out and the people who control it will do what it
takes to keep it that way.I'm not spinning anything at all. If you
research the actual records, you'll see it all in black and white. I didn't say
what we did was better than what BYU did. I said we had no chance at the title,
because the system now prevents it. The system is completely different now and
the coaches poll is only one small aspect of the BCS ranking. So don't go
getting all upitty on me.
Dick Harmon is one of the better writers in the greater Provo area (it's not a
stretch to consider him one of the better writers in Utah county). He
constantly has interesting things to say. Why can't he weigh in on the BCS
system?I remember back in my glory days when I was on campus I saw
him scarfing down some frosty, smooth ice cream at the BYU Creamery and I was
too scared to approach him for an autograph. I've regretted my temerity that
day for nearly 15 years. He is as much a legend in the discipline of journalism
as Rick Steves is in the world of travel.As for the BCS, I hope that
TUN (Team Up North) sticks to their guns and follows the movement to abolish
this corrupt system. Now!
Granted the Utah Football program has enjoyed success the past 10 years mainly
because of the spread mickey mouse offense of Urban. It is just a matter of
time before defenses catch-up to offense, thus enter Norm Chow. To my point, I
really tire of the Utah - BYU comparison, yes they were in the same conference
and ony 35 miles apart - end of discussion. Before Utah was on the football map,
BYU was winning year after year. With a strong fan base especially in the
West, the PAC 10 was licking their chops thinking of the possibilities of
including BYU, the only problem who could they team with to move from the WAC?
little brother up North wasn't very goood in football. BYU has been more
interested in teaming with Utah than the other way. BYU also has the NO PLAY
rule on Sunday. BYU travels well away, but visitors have issues traveling to
Provo because of smoking, coffee, etc. BYU is better off teaming with other
religious schools albeit Catholic majority, still a good situation. Utah is
better off too, no longer BYU's little brother.
4blade2007,And your characterization of Utah as the little brother
is partly what generates so much animousity from Ute fans. Not from me, because
I don't let it get too me, but the arrogance of it really gets to a lot of fans.
So if you want civility out of Ute fans, tone down the arrogance.
All ranking, and that includes computer rankings, are biased by peoples
opinions.We need to get away from opinions and settle things on the
field. Basketball proves that the prevailing opinions never match the outcomes
of games. Ohio State would have been crown basketball champion this year if we
leave it up to opinions.16 team playoff, with all conference
champions invited. That would leave 4 at large bids. Surely the best team in the
land would be included with that many invites.
Why can't Utah do it like Oregon? Well for starters Oregon has Nike.
Further, they have a lot of good QBs not to mention deep talent at just about
every position. Utah could do well in the PAC BUT they would have to
do really well at recruiting vs the rest of the PAC. It remains to be seen how
effective Utah will be at recruiting vs USC, OR and other PAC teams that rise to
the occasion. WSU gets lucky about every 30 years. The same is true for the AZ
schools. BYU on the other hand is following the BSU model which has
proven fairly successful. Play a couple of good teams and beat their 4 and 5
star recruits with 2 and 3 star recruits. Also manage to win the rest of your
games with half or more of those being weak schools. It is unlikely
BYU will go undefeated against MS, TX, UT, CF, ORst and TCU. However, that
schedule is easier than the one UT faces next year. Utah's lack of
quality depth is a major problem until the get the quality depth that OR has.Utah could get lucky. So could BYU.
"BYU is better off teaming with other religious schools albeit Catholic
majority"4blade,BYU is entering a hornets nest.
Trust me when I say Catholics party like no ones business. Within a year your
going to long fondly on your trips to Laramie.Catholics gonna eat u
Mormon Ute"As I have said before BYU doesn't have one of those
crystal trophies either and has a hard road to getting one."Actually, BYU has an exact copy of the same Crystal Football Trophy that
Auburn received for winning the National Championship this year.Stop
by the BYU Sports Hall of Fame to see it sometime. While you're there, you can
also see a real Heisman Trophy.Utah's BCS trophies represent a real
accomplishment, but they pale in comparison to the creme-de-la-creme of major
college football which you'll find in BYU's trophy cases.
oh my,I just had my post banned for using the "z" word.LOL!
Mormon Ute"I really don't see what relevance USC has in this
discussion."It's very simple. Utah fans complain that the BCS
prevented the Utes from winning a national championship in 2004 and 2008. The
truth is, the BCS had nothing to do with Utah not winning a national
championship.The BCS didn't prevent USC from winning the AP NC in
2003.The BCS didn't prevent Utah from winning the AP NC in 2004 or
2008.andThe BCS wouldn't have prevented BYU from winning
the AP NC in 1984.The BCS is no more relevant in deciding the AP
National Championship today, than it was in 1984.The ONLY criteria
for winning the AP NC is finishing #1 in the final AP poll. It doesn't matter
who you played, what bowl you played in, or what your final record was. In fact,
you don't even have to play in a bowl. The ONLY criteria is finishing #1 in the
final AP poll.It's completely up to the AP voters to decide which
team is selected #1.
I can't honestly figure out why fans of the Team in Provo care about the BCS.
The Cougs have never even come close to a BCS bowl. Remember, the 2008
"quest" for perfection fell miles short. Another team you may have
heard of went to the BCS for the second time that particular year to complete a
"perfect" season culminating with the destruction of Alabama.If anyone should be complaining it's the Utes. Two national championships
rightfully belong to us and we all know it.So Team in Provo, quit
worrying about the BCS. It's not for you. Play as hard as you can and maybe
you can make the Kraft-Hunger Bowl or maybe even the New Mexico Bowl again.
Bugoff,Look at Oregon's history. They haven't always been at the
top of the PAC-10. it has only been in recent years that they have risen to the
level that they are. They haven't always had the depth or the talent. Just
like all conferences, different teams emerge over time.Also, what do
you think Utah has been doing for the past 10 years? Beating 4 and 5 star
talent with 2 and 3 star. Ron McBride started it, Urban Meyer ramped it up and
Whit has continued it. I see the lower level teams in the PAC-12 looking a lot
like the lower level teams BYU will be facing.I believe we'll prove
we belong in the PAC-12 and I hope BYU has success as an independent.
@Mormon Ute"I hope BYU has success as an independent."You're the bigger man. I hope the strange experiment to go independent
fails miserably. I hope to see the Team in Provo go crying back to the MWC with
its tail between its legs begging to be re-admitted.
anti BCS"The BCS wouldn't have prevented BYU from winning the
AP NC in 1984."I beg to differ. If we use your logic BYU would
not have been NC in 1984. Strength of schedule plays a big part in today's BCS
rankings. In 1984 not one of BYU's opponents finished in the Top 20. BYU may
have been invited to a BCS game but not the NC game. In the history of the BCS
the AP vote has never differed from the recognized BCS champion. So BYU would
not have been the NC in 1984.On the other hand if the 1984 system
was in place in 2008 Utah might have ben the NC. Like BYU they were the only
undefeated div I school in the land. BYU definitely benefited from the voting
system in the 80's, while Utah did not in 2004 and 2008. Let's just say they
both had great teams in their respective years.
You can say whatever you want, but don't count on it.BYU is going to
be very successful as an independent.btw, a "perfect
season" ends with a national championship.Anything less, is
less than perfect.
TrueBlue,Ah, but that is not true. BYU has an AP National
Championship trophy. It is shaped like a football and changes color some years.
It has been gold colored, silver colored and bronze. I'm not sure what color
it was in 1984, but it was not crystal and never has been. The crystal trophy
is the BCS national championship trophy and BYU doesn't have one. Auburn
University got both of them last season.
anti BCS,One problem with your arguement. In 1984 the AP National
Champion was considered THE National Champion. In 2004 and 2008 the BCS
Champion is considered THE National Champion. So there is the difference. You
make a good point that it is all based on opinion. That is the very reason I
favor a full blown playoff. In absence of that, the only way to get to the BCS
title game is by being part of a BCS conference. Good luck to BYU getting back
to number 1 in any poll. It won't be any easier for you than for the Utes.
Either way the BCS is a terrible system and it has to go. A playoff has its
downside too, but just like March Madness think of how exciting that format
would be. Not to mention the lucrative payouts!
Mr. Harmon:Please don't encourage supporting the government's
attempts to force a college football playoff. Except in a few isolated cases of
fraud like the Fiesta Bowl, there is nothing illegal about how money in college
football is distributed; the "powers that be" should have every right
to charge the prices they do, and nobody is being coerced to pay them. Nobody
is being robbed. There are no funds being forcefully or unknowingly removed.
They have every right to make the decisions they do, strange as they seem to us
fans who want a playoff. If the Department of Justice were to impose the
majority's will on the current system, it would be taking away their rights to
run the system the way they want to, and THAT would be an injustice. After
that, what's to stop the government from, say, ousting you as a sportswriter if
the majority of the public doesn't like you? If fans don't like the current
system, then they should stop supporting it themselves by not consuming it,
instead of calling on the government to solve all their problems by taking other
people's rights away.
FloridaUTE"In the history of the BCS the AP vote has never
differed from the recognized BCS champion."2003 BCS National
Champion - LSU2003 AP National Champion - USCUSC was ranked #1
in both the AP and Coaches regular season final poll, but didn't play in the BCS
championship game.The AP Poll has been running continuously since
1936. BCS rankings have NEVER even been considered in the AP poll, not in 1939,
not in 1984, and not in 2008.Voters in the AP poll are free to use
whatever criteria the choose to rank teams.----------------------Mormon Ute"One problem with your arguement. In 1984 the
AP National Champion was considered THE National Champion. In 2004 and 2008 the
BCS Champion is considered THE National Champion."Sorry, you
don't have a clue what you're talking about. The official NCAA website lists
BOTH the BCS champion AND the AP champion.BYU was not only the
national champion in 1984, the Cougars were the CONCENSUS National Champion,
selected national champions by all five major organizations that selected a
national champion in 1984.
The press picked the National Championship in 1984 and they still do today. The
bcs, not using caps deseret news, has the bcs national championship bowl not the
undisputed National Championship. In 2008, Florida was still the disputed
National Champions until the polls came out. Even then, Utah still got a lot of
#1 votes when they finished #2. The bcs has not done anything to help declare
the real National winner.
Mormon UteBYU has FIVE National Championship Trophies from 1984
including:AP - Associated Press FWAA - Football Writers
Association of AmericaNFF - National Football FoundationUSA/CNN -
USA Today/Cable News NetworkUPI/Coaches (which is now the official BCS
championship poll)The Coaches trophy on display in BYU's Sports Hall
of Fame is identical to the crystal football trophy Auburn received in January
2011.You can call me a liar, but I've seen it with my own eyes.Feel free to visit BYU's Sport Hall of Fame anytime to see it for yourself if
you don't want to believe me.And the NCAA still recognizes the AP
National Champion as being just as legitimate as the BCS champion.From the Official NCAA Website:FBS Championship HistoryYear
Champion Selecting Organization 2003 LSU BCS 2003 USC AP, FWAA 1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI 1984 BYU AP, FWAA, NFF,
USA/CNN, UPI 1983 Miami AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI Voters in
the polls in 1984 did consider strength of schedule, just like they do today,
they just didn't use secret computer formulas to make the calculations for them.
The BCS was supposed to match the clear #1 versus the clear #2 to decide a clear
national champion.It's almost never worked, because there's hardly
ever a clear #1 and a clear #2.If it had been Texas (with TCU's
record) beating Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl, instead of TCU, we could have easily
had another split national championship, just like we had in 2003, with Auburn
winning the BCS championship, but Texas winning AP championship.
anti BCS"Voters in the AP poll are free to use whatever
criteria the choose to rank teams."Regardless of 2003 BYU would
not be the "National Champion" in 1984 under the current BCS/AP
system. Look at the facts. Unlike 1984's AP voter, today's voter puts SOS into
consideration. BYU did not have a single opponent finish in the final Top 20 at
the end of the 1984 season. Five point win over Hawaii? Three point win over
Wyoming? Five point win over AF? Beat a 6-5 Michigan team in a bowl game on
Dec.21? Come on dog, it was a hack job and you know it! BYU was voted the NC
that year because they were the only undefeated team in the land, pure and
simple. If Washington would have played BYU in the Holiday Bowl instead of
playing in the Rose Bowl we wouldn't be having this conversation. BYU benefited
from the pre-BCS system in the 80's and Utah did not in 2004 and 2008.
Mormon Ute"The crystal trophy is the BCS national championship
trophy and BYU doesn't have one."The crystal football trophy in
BYU's trophy case is identical to the crystal football trophy Auburn received in
January.The trophy consists of a Waterford Crystal football affixed
to an ebony base, and carries a value of over $30,000. The winning school
retains permanent possession of the trophy, as a new one is awarded every year.
The football portion of the trophy weighs approximately 8 pounds and together
with the stand, it weights about 45 pounds and stands 34 inches tall. It is
handmade by an artist in Ireland and takes nearly 3 months to complete.Its current name is actually "The American Football Coaches Association
(AFCA) National Championship Trophy (or The Coaches' Trophy)," which was
given this permanent name by the association in 2006.In 2009, the
AFCA issued the trophy to schools whose teams were voted number one by the
Coaches' Poll in years before the trophy was issued.Quite obviously,
the AFCA respects the championships won by teams before the BCS every bit as
much as they do the champions of the BCS era.
4blade2007"...BYU is better off teaming with other religious
schools albeit Catholic majority...."Something wrong with
Catholics?That quote is bound to end up in the office of every
University President and Athletic Department in the WCC.How will the
WCC schools and fans react to BYU"s "we look down our nose at
everybody"?How do the BYU administration and fans react when
they perceive they are treated that way?Exactly.What
goes around has a tendency come around.
Snack PAC | 2:25 p.m. April 14, 2011,Wow.In order:If you mean Utah "got lucky" when they got BCS bowl invites,
the "luck" was going undefeated. Utah has done it twice in the last
seven years. BYU hasn't done it in the last 26.If the
"luck" is the Pac 12 invite, the media had been talking of the
possibility for a few years. Since the formula for non-BCS teams to
get a BCS bowl is an undefeated season (even media darling Boise State didn't
get one last year after going 11-1), BYU wouldn't have been invited to one BCS
bowl, let alone the "at least 5" you suggest.I watched the
1984 bowls. BYU struggled to put beat a 6-5 unranked team. Both Washington and
Oklahoma looked much better to me than the Cougars did.Who knows -
other than you, I guess - who would have won between the 1984 Michigan and 2004
Pittsburgh teams? Even bringing it up sounds pretty silly.But what
really disturbs me is that 13 other mouth-breathers think your comments were
worthy of praise.Again, wow....
FloridaUTEThere is no such thing as a BCS/AP system.The
AP is completely separate from the BCS. It doesn't use the BCS computers and it
doesn't use a formal SOS of any kind.Washington didn't play in the
Rose Bowl. Washington beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl. Washington and Nebraska
both received invitations to play in the Holiday Bowl, but both chose to play in
higher profile bowls for more money instead of playing the #1-ranked team for a
chance at the national championship.BYU would have gladly played any
of the other Top 5 teams - Oklahoma, Washington, Nebraska (Florida was on
probation and didn't play in a bowl) -- but BYU wasn't given that
opportunity.Was it BYU's fault that pre-season #3 Pittsburgh, which
BYU opened the season with on the road, tanked?btw, BYU destroyed
Washington 31-3 in Provo in September 1985.BYU was voted #1 in 1984
because BYU was the most deserving team in 1984.
It's like we never left Jr. High. You hate the popular crowd unless you are in
it. Utah and TCU got invited, so now they are part of the "in" group.
I would love to believe that the government steps in and stops this garbage,
but I think it will probably be about 30 years down the road.
'90CougarYour whole premise is flawed. I could point to dozens of
national champions who struggled against inferior opponents, in several games
throughout the season, and still won a national championship.The BCS
formula for a non-BCS team isn't undefeated, it's highest ranked non-BCS team
ranked in the Top 12.In 1979 (11-0, ranked #9) 1983 (10-1, ranked #9) 1984 (12-0, ranked #1) 1985 (11-2, ranked
#9) 1996 (13-1, ranked #5)BYU would have been that team.
Mormon Ute again guessing on what may or may not be true. Either way you are
never not wrong, especially when you are splitting hairs or thumping your
scriptures dogging someone because they aren't the walk-on water fan you are."It is shaped like a football and changes color some years. It has
been gold colored, silver colored and bronze. I'm not sure what color it was in
1984, but it was not crystal and never has been."I am looking
at a picture on my iPhone that I took this past fall on a rainy day at the
School down South. I almost had tears in my eyes remembering back to that cold
and foggy December day in 1984 when Bosco courageously secured that Coaches
Trophy, which by the way is crystal. The other trophy is bronze. Either way,
they are both National Championship trophies of the non-gymnastics type. Oh, and
they are two steps away from a Heisman trophy. You really should stop in for a
tour that will clear out cobwebs that you may have, Brother Mormon Ute.
'90CougarHere are the records of Utah's 2004 regular season
opponents.7-53-83-85-67-56-62-94-74-77-55-6Three teams with winning
records; one break-even record.Now compare that to BYU's 1979
regular season opponents.6-53-82-96-57-3-14-86-64-7-17-46-68-3FIVE
teams with winning records and two with break-even records, including a 63-14
road win over an 8-3 team with a much better record than anybody Utah played in
2004, including their bowl opponent.BYU finished the 1979 regular
season 11-0, ranked #9.Utah finished the 2004 regular season 11-0, ranked
#5.Utah's BCS busting 2004 team simply had fortunate timing. They
didn't do anything that BYU hadn't done 25 years earlier.It's
amazing how many mouth-breathers have bought into the Utah 2004 BCS hype.
@ I still can't spell BYU: "Two national championships rightfully
belong to us and we all know it."Dear Sir or Madam, Who is
"We All"? A friend of yours?1984 National Championship
Trophies in the Hall of Fame case at the School down South: 2Football National Championship trophies that the "University of the
Prophets" rightfully won, but are being held at other schools until a frat
can get them back: 2Actual National Championship trophies up on the
hill: 10* * Gymnastics (women)Okay, you win. You have
more trophies than BYU. Go Lady Utes, sorry, Red Rocks! (Who by the way had
more fans at one meet than the basketball team got in the whole season.)Ask Mormon Ute, he will tell you. He had two of the four comments on
the little article about the Utah Red Rocks advancing to the Nationals.
@ There You Go AgainEasy does it big fella, easy does it. It's not
like 4blade2007 is going to investigated by the Vatican. They have much bigger
fish to fry (you know what I mean). And I'm sure all the WCC presidents don't
care much about all of us have to say on these comment boards. I don't think
4blade2007 was taking a jab at Catholics. Take a chill pill and love, forgive
and forget. That is what all good Christians do, right?
anti BCS,Not so fast, my friend!In 1979, Florida State
was independent, or "non-BCS." They were ranked higher than BYU.In 1983, Miami was independent, and ranked higher than BYU.The 1984 BYU team was obviously the highest ranked "non-BCS"
team.In 1985, both Penn State and Miami were still independent, and
both were ranked higher than BYU going into the bowls.In 1996, BYU
was the highest ranked "non-BCS" team.So, of your list of
five BYU teams, only two were the "highest ranked non-BCS team" in
their respective years.Like shooting fish in a barrel.....Don't misunderstand me. The five teams you listed were all very good football
teams. But only two of them would have met the CURRENT BCS criteria for an
invite to a BCS Bowl.The BCS system is flawed, and I would like it
to be gone. But it isn't as flawed as most of you think it is. There are some
teams out there who can make a legitimate complaint about being excluded from
year to year, but the last BYU team that can even come close to making a
reasonable complaint is the 2001 team.
I think both sides of this argument just proved that the AP and BCS
"National Champions" is a joke. We need a playoff.If BYU had
the chance to play in a 1984 playoff, most polls agree BYU would have won. It is
not BYU's fault they didn't get the chance to play the top teams.If Utah
had the chance to play in a 2009 playoff, most polls agree Utah had a shot until
after Florida scraped by Bama and Utah destroyed Bama. This makes no sense. It
is not Utah's fault they did not get a chance to play Florida.Both systems
are flawed.And 2004 was a rip off since the Big East even got into the
Fiesta Bowl. Utah proved they should have had a real opponent.BYU and Utah
are both deserving of more than they got.
Don't give up the fight Dick Harmon. And Utah fans shouldn't either.
Utah'95Sorry, if you're going to apply BCS era rules to 1984, you
have to apply current BCS alignment to 1984, otherwise it makes no sense at all.
The Big East didn't exist as a BCS conference in 1984, and SMU and TCU were part
of the SWC which imploded before the BCS existed.
TrueBlue,The AP trophy BYU has in their case was created long before
the current crystal BCS trophy was even thought of. If anything, the BCS trophy
is a crystal copy of the metal version (whatever the color) that the AP has
handed out for decades before the BCS. So, I was simply correcting your
misstatement. If you believe I was calling you a liar, so be it. I'm just
correcting your statements with facts.You fail to prove that the
Utes were given as much of a chance at the championship as BYU had. The facts
are that in 2008 the Utes finished as the only undefeated team in the country,
just like BYU did in 1984. We beat more highly ranked teams on the road to that
undefeated record than BYU did in 1984. We absolutely dominated a team that was
ranked #1 before they lost the SEC championship game. So don't try to minimize
our accomplishment with your arrogant claim of superiourity based on the 1984
championship game. It was a different time with different rules and BYU would
have no better chance today of winning it than we had in 2008.
Okay, we're arguing over semantics about what kind of trophies BYU has in their
case. The bottom line is the same opportunity is not available today to any
team outside the BCS conferences as it was to BYU in 1984.Many of
you misunderstand my motivation in pointing this out. I am not trying to dimish
BYU's title. I was cheering for them that year as well. As the only undefeated
team in the country under the system that was in place then, they deserved it.
What I trying to do is defend my team against so many BYU fans who try to
diminish our accomplishments in the last 10 years and claim that somehow were
don't deserve recognition for them. Many of you claim we haven't earned our
place in the PAC-12. No, we have not won a national title in football, but we
were not given the same opportunity BYU had in 1984, because the rules were
changed to prevent it.Now we have a real shot at something bigger,
if we elevate our game sufficiently. So don't bring the clouds to our day in
skywalker,How many of you BYU fans have downplayed our win over Pitt
in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl out of jealousy over us being the first to break into
the BCS? How many of you BYU fans downplayed our win last season over #15 Pitt
when their season tanked? I'm not saying it's right, but you are whinning about
people giving back to you what you dish out.
Troll nation, angst not. Stop stomping around scraping your nuckles, gnashing
your teath and pulling out all your hair over your percieved BCS slight!Here's a way to get through it, just think of the BCS as just a big
honor code office. Then tell youself "if you don't like the rules don't be
part of the organization. You can thank me later!
Several of you are now making comments about gymnastics and our titles there and
then throwing my name into that conversation. Look at my comments. Have I ever
been disrespectful to BYU or its 1984 championship? Have I ever claimed we have
won more titles than BYU? Have I ever claimed we won a championship in
football?I have merely stated we deserved a shot in 2008 and the
current system prevented that. I have also stated that BYU won their title
under a different system. I have also stated, based on the strength of schedule
component in the current system, that even if BYU went undefeated now they
wouldn't get a shot at the title. That's not disrespecting BYU, it is merely
stating they are in the same boat as the Utes.I am happy to be a Ute
and proud of my teams success, but I don't engage in putting down my opponent to
boost my team and I'd appreciate it if those who do that would leave my name out
Riddles in the Dark,My comments were in rebuttal to what anti BCS
said in his post: "The BCS formula for a non-BCS team isn't undefeated,
it's highest ranked non-BCS team ranked in the Top 12....BYU would have been
that team."The research I did indicates that BYU WOULD have
been that team in 1984 and 1996, but WOULD NOT have been that team in 1979,
1983, and 1985. "That team" would have been Florida State in 1979,
Miami in 1983, and Miami in 1985.I'm not trying to diminish the
accomplishments of BYU football teams, just fact-checking what a fellow poster
"just think of the BCS as just a big honor code office. Then tell youself
"if you don't like the rules don't be part of the organization."bleedcrimson,Perfect. I think the tds can get thier head
around this concept.
Mormon UteThe AP trophy is not the Crystal Football trophy.Read the post by Solomon the Wise; that should clear up your confusion.BYU actually has FIVE national championship trophies in its trophy case,
one from each of the five major organizations that selected a national champion
in 1984. All five championships are recognized by the NCAA on its official
website:NCAA FBS Football Championship HistoryYear Champion
Selecting Organization 2003 Louisiana State BCS 2003 Southern
California AP, FWAA 1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches 1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches 1983 Miami
(Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USAT/CNN, UPI/Coaches AP - Associated Press
Coaches - AFCA Coaches' Poll (the Crystal Football trophy)FWAA -
Football Writers Association of America NFF - National Football Foundation
USAT/CNN - USA Today/Cable News Network Your
"correction" was incorrect.As far as the AP national
championship is concerned, the exact same opportunity exists today that existed
for BYU in 1984. USC 2003 is proof of that. The Trojans won the 2003 AP National
Championship without playing in the BCS championship game. LSU and
USC shared a split national championship in 2003.
Utah'95Your problem is you misapplied your fact checking. If you're
going to apply BCS rules to 1984, you have to apply current BCS conference
alignment, otherwise the comparison makes no sense.For example, the
SWC, which included Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, TCU, and SMU, would
certainly have been a BCS conference in 1984, but it went out of business before
the BCS was created. In your scenario, Texas, Texas A&M, Arkansas, TCU, and
SMU would have been considered non-BCS teams in 1984 because they weren't in a
BCS conference? Florida State, Miami, and Penn State are all BCS teams based on
current BCS conference alignment.
TrueBlue,I concede on the trophy arguement and regret ever getting
into that. There are way too many different trophies handed out each year.
Just one more reason why a play off is needed.Now to counter your
contention the BYU still has the same opportunity that it had in 1984 to get an
AP title without the BCS title. First, you use USC as your example and I must
say, no disrespect to BYU, but in tradition, history, recruiting, talent,
coaching, schedule, and basically any other way you look at it USC has a higher
level program than BYU. So comparing to them isn't going to get you much
mileage. Let's use the Utes 2008 season as a better comparison. In 2008 we
beat 3 top 20 teams (BYU, TCU and Alabama) in going undefeated. All of those
teams were ranked in the top 20 when we played them and were still in the top 20
at the end of the bowl games, but no title was given us. So BYU will have to
beat more than 3 ranked teams to even be considered. They didn't have to do
that in 1984.
Mormon UteThanks for conceding the trophy argument.As
far as the AP national championship, you're correct, USC does have a much richer
tradition, but circumstances change from year to year.The problem
many fans have with understanding college football history is they usually don't
understand the background. Seldom does any team come out of nowhere to win a
national championship in the polls. With preseason polls, a new pecking order is
established to begin each season. It's nearly impossible for a team that starts
out unranked to surpass teams that start in the Top 10 and remain undefeated,
especially when those teams at the top are considered "traditional
powers" like Ohio State, Texas, and USC.The thing that fans who
only look at BYU's 1984 regular season and bowl opponent fail to understand, is
that there was MUCH more to BYU winning the 1984 national championship, than the
1984 season... (continued)
(continued)BYU's 1979, 1980, 1981, and 1983 seasons were just as
much responsible as 1984.In those years leading up to 1984, BYU
established a national football reputation which made 1984 possible.In 1983, BYU stumbled in their first game, then steamrolled through the rest
of the season, beating two Top 15 teams on the road and finishing #7 in the AP
and Coaches poll on an 11-game winning streak.The momentum from 1983
quickly propelled BYU back into the Top 10 early in the 1984 season. After that,
BYU just kept winning as other teams took themselves out of the national
championship race.When BYU finally rose to #1 at the end of the
regular season, BYU's schedule was heavily scrutinized for over a month before
the final polls came out.To say that BYU's SOS was not considered in
the final polls is completely inaccurate.BYU may not have been the
best team in 1984, but the Cougars were the most deserving team to win the
TrueBlue,You are right about the body of work idea and I would never
seek to diminish BYU's accomplishments in consistency and excellence over they
years. What I have trouble with is the Cougar fans unwillingness to
achknowledge a great accomplishment by an opponent in a system that is purposely
flawed to give certain teams the upper hand.Should the Utes have
been the champs in 2008? I think so, but what nobody should argue against is
that we should have had the chance to prove it.
Mormon UteI agree, the whole idea of using polls and bowls to
determine a national champion is a flawed system with inherent biases.In 1984, BYU should have been given a chance to prove themselves against the
#2 team.In 2004 and 2008, Utah should have been given a chance to
prove themselves against the #1 team.In reality, the BCS was not
created to determine a true national champion, it was created to protect the
power and financial interests of the Big 10, Big 12, SEC, ACC, and PAC 10
conferences, Notre Dame, and the bowls. The Big East was only included to give
the BCS conferences the majority they needed to maintain control of major
college football.It's ironic that a playoff would produce at least a
half billion more revenue than the BCS and a true national champion, but the BCS
presidents won't even consider a playoff because it would destroy their
monopolistic control of major college football.
All of the Utah-BYU banter aside, the BSC is bad for sports due to the lack of
fairness in many ways. It needs to go away and a playoff system is a more fair
way for a true champ to be named.I hope for Utah's success as well
as BYU's. It is good for all of us, like it or not. It will be fun to play
earlier in the season, hopefully from this time forward.
TrueBlue,Ironic indeed. It really sheds a lot of light on their
true motivation. Of course this past summer a chink in the armor of their
unified voice appeared when the PAC-10's efforts to raid the Big-12 were foiled.
They obviously only vote together enough to keep their stangle hold on the
power and the money. Hopefully the discontent in the ranks will continue to
fester and grow to a level where the BCS alliance will eventually weaken enough
for the university presidents to make a move. The Fiesta Bowl's troubles have
added additional cracks that hopefully will grow.
To Mormon Ute - As a BYU fan, I appreciate your comments, and find them
reasonable even if somewhat biased in favor of your team. Good for you and your
loyalty. At least your comments aren't ridiculously trolly, like some (cough
Hedgehog! cough cough). Seems you have healthy respect for BYU's
accomplishments, as I do for Utah's. Anyone thinking Utah's BCS winning seasons
were not highly impressive are basically bias-blinded morons.While
not necessarily morons, I'd say those who believe the Michigan team BYU beat in
1984 was the same team that went 6-5 through the regular season is ignorant of
the facts. That Michigan team started the season dominantly, as an NC
contender, but lost several games after injuries to key players. By the time
they were rested up for BYU, it was a fully healthy Michigan team. Despite
cheap shots that injured Bosco, BYU still pulled it out. It was an incredible
win over a VERY good team. The next game, BYU pummeled Washington to open the
season, when everyone thought BYU would be taught a lesson by the REAL 1984 NC.
BYU was fully deserving in 1984.
DSB,OK, thank you for the spin on the 6-5 Michigan team. They may
have been highly thought of in the preseason, but for whatever reason, they
managed to lose 5 regular season games.They may have been a very
good 6-5 team, whatever than means. But they never should have been the
opponent of the team defending their #1 ranking in bowl season.The
BCS is many things, and a lot of them are not good or fair. But at least it
assures that an unranked #1 won't face an unranked 6-5 team for all the marbles
ever again. BYU deserved a shot at Washington or Oklahoma, and vice versa.
@FloridaUTE | 8:51 p.m. April 14, 2011Let's just say they [BYU and the U]
both had great teams in their respective years. Thank you! Let's
enjoy our own successes and applaud others when they achieve as well. The mark
of greatness is... when a game ends, the opposing teams (having played with
sportmanship) congratulate each other on a well-played game, and everyone goes
home satisfied that he/she/they did their best.Let us enjoy our
respective teams successes and really get our pants in an uproar by the things
in life which TRULY matter...college sports (fun as they are) aren't in that
'90Cougar - no spin, just facts. And, I don't dispute that BYU should not have
been playing any 6-5 team, regardless of how good they might have been at the
time of the bowl game. Michigan wasn't just thought highly of in the preseason,
they opened against reigning NC Miami and beat them. Injuries destroyed their
season. That's not "whatever reason." Great players in key positions
is THE reason teams win football games.I agree the BCS system would
have prevented the injustice of BYU playing a 6-5 team. That was never my
point.My whole point is that it's ignorant to say "BYU barely
beat a 6-5 team in its bowl game, so their national championship is not
legitimate." The recuperated Michigan team BYU played that night was
hungry to redeem their season and to humiliate what they considered a wannabe
program, and could well have beaten either Washington (although, admittedly,
they did lose a game to Washington earlier in the year, when they were still
healthy, by about the same margin they lost to BYU) or Oklahoma at that time.
Spin however you like, just don't be ignorant.
In the past I have always felt that the BCS system was very unfair but now that
Utah is part of it I feel much better.