The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
'Lobbyists are not allowed inside House and Senate chambers during the
legislative session, but text exchanges between lobbyists and legislators gives
them access and power that would be unseen by the public under HB477.' -
Article *'E-mail raises new questions about influence of Herbert
campaign contributions' - By John Daley and Lisa Riley Roche - DSNews -
09/28/2010Line: 'SALT LAKE CITY Gov. Gary Herbert "should
remember" that the construction company boss on his meeting schedule is a
$50,000 first-time donor who wants to talk "about transportation
construction and issues within the state." Herbert gets $50,000
in donations. The donor gets a I-15 contract worth $1.7 billion. Also, HB477 would PREVENT email searches, unless justification was given and
fee's were paid.... just 6 months after the emails raised
questions about, said donor and it's effect.
Isn't this legislation in conflict with Federal FOIA acts anyway? Won't the
state waste hundreds of thousands of our money defending this bad legislation in
federal lawsuits? What a stab in the back by our corrupt leadership. Et tu
I don't think Utah republican politicians understand their voters very well. I
have liberal leanings but I grew up in a conservative gun wielding household and
one thing that I know about Utah republicans is that they hate government
secrecy just as equally as liberals. When my dad and I agree that a bill is
altogether evil it truly must be.Just tell me how and where to sign
this petition and I'll bring my whole conservative family with me.
Jordan High School. Tonight 6 p.m.
"The enemy of my enemy is. . ."Interesting how a common enemy
can bring opposing sides together. It looks like the legislature has done
exactly that. The only winners will be the lawyers (as usual) as the lawsuits
I never thought I'd see the day when Utah government become self serving.
I can't believe I'm typing these words. But I am actually agreeing with Ross
Anderson on this. There I did it. It's typed out. This might be the only
common ground that I will ever have with Ross.Government needs to be
transparant and open to the public. I'm not saying national security and their
personal private conversations. But, for the most part we should have access
and knowledge on how decisions are made and who is influencing those
decisions.At the same time, even politicians need the ability to
have a private conversation that is not broadcast to the world. But, if they're
accepting bribes and making deals, we should know about it.If they
wanted to debate a topic and get their thoughts and ideas together, that should
be private. If they're meeting with a lobbyist then it should be public...It will be interesting to see how they divide what is public and what is
Delaying the implementation date of HB477 was totally meaningless.Scheduling a work group do discuss HB477 is meaningless.Calling a
special session to repeal it NEXT WEEK would be a step in the right direction.
If Rocky Anderson and the Democrats are in favor of repeal, we know that repeal
will be bad for Utah.
I think the government should be able to hide whatever they want from the
public. They know what's best for the people. If they say we don't need to
know something, I'm sure it's for a very good reason. I mean, they would never
do anything sneaky or underhanded. Seriously, why this lack of trust for our
fine politicians? I just don't understand it! I love living in the United
States of China.
'If Rocky Anderson and the Democrats are in favor of repeal, we know that repeal
will be bad...' - Wayne Rout | 3:33 p.m. Isn't that WHY Utah got
Herbert, who signed HB477 into law. Preventing transparency from lawmakers to
you.... and why George W. Bush was elected, and signed the Patriot
Act, TSA? Which allows the goverment to do warrentless searches to
your property, emails, phones and person? Just keep voting that 'R'
Wayne, when exactly did complete secrecy and darkness in government become a
I'm sure there is a fan of HB477: The Kremlin. This bill sounds like Soviet
Union-esque government secrecy and corruption. Buttars had an issue with what
type of government we are. Maybe the legislature thinks we are a Soviet
socialist republic? The Utah State Socialist Republic (USSR)?
You know something is wrong with a bill when you have Rocky and the Tea Party
and the Women League of Voters shaking hands. Wake up legislators. This will
be an election issue. Did you or did you not vote for this bill? We
(Republicans and Democrats alike) will not forget! If you voted for it and
chose not to do anything you will be replaced. We need to make sure that the
voting records are clear.
Every legislator that passed this better get voted out.Either they
were scared to vote their conscience or they were too dumb or lazy to understand
what they were doing.Now we are going to waste way too much $$$ on
this mess when it could have been going to our schools where it is desperately
needed.Time to clean house.The pride cycle is coming
around full circle once again.
You know how you know you're wrong? You've got Rocky Anderson and the Tea Party
joining forces against you... I think hell just froze over...
Don't stop with the repeal of the bill, go after the guy who wrote it and those
who supported it too! It's time people sent their lawmakers a message that they
can no longer act without impunity just because they have an "R" (in
Utah - or a "D" by their name in States controlled by the Dems). It's
a good lesson why people should think before they vote and consider the person,
not the party. Problem you get with a supermajority is that those in power
start to think they can push forward any piece of legislation they want and no
one, no constituent will say a word about it! Its wrong for all parties to
think this way. It's why a balance to be struck when voting in State elections
is a good thing. Too many people head to the polls with their blinders on and
punch the strait ticket. No matter what your party affiliation is, this is
wrong! Vote the person, not the party, and don't give any one party that much
control and power! Remember vouchers? Those lawmakers still think you were
wrong about that.
I never thought I would agree with Rocky Anderson about anything....I guess I
was wrong. This bill needs to be repealed. The state legislature have totally
over-reached. It's time for a few of them to lose their jobs.
What a bunch of stand up dudes. They got a B+ and those gosh darn teachers are
causing our society to collapse...so back off people!!!
When you have the vast majority of the electorate disgruntled with a bill,
there's a serious problem with the bill. It was passed along with immigration
reform, which I honestly think was meant to overshadow the HB477 passage.
Luckily, we have not fallen for it. I will be signing this petition, and I
sincerely hope they are able to gather the necessary signatures.
So...Carl Wimmer and Rocky Anderson are together on this.The End Is
Near.I am still against HB477, but when those two, ah,
"colorful individuals" are on the same page on anything, it's enough
to make any sane person think twice.
The comment made it will blow over in a week is history.You career
politicians are coming to an end and quickly.Americans have had enough of
your one sided voting with total disregard for what the people of Utah want.
Your dictating days are over.
As it is, Utah enjoys an international reputation as the fraud capital of the
country. HB116 helps to cement its reputation as the political corruption
capital as well. Why am I not surprised by HB477 now? They go hand in hand
Leave it to the Utah Legislature to make me wanna agree with Rocky Anderson.Now I gotta poke a fork in my eye...bahdo the right thing
R's in Utah. Repeal the stupid Law...don't waste a stupid amount of money on
this...cause you'll lose. You have better things to worry about...like how you
can shove more children into classrooms..
Lobbyists must be kept out of the capital.Everything must be transparent to all
that way we can act(the people). The more the gov't is secretive in their
dealing the worse it gets for the people then the people have no recourse.Heck
does it really matter anymore? They're going to do it anyway whether we like it
Lockhart's latest comments. . ."Lockhart would not directly
answer two key questions about the bill specifically, who was behind the bill,
and whether she regrets how HB477 was handled."She also stated
on television interviews that she ran on a transparency in government platform
(as did Herbert) and believes she has honored that platform. Then she says
"I am a process person". . .I take that to mean she was happy with the
process HB477 took.Now Herbert is saying he felt uncomfortable with
the process and uncomfortable with the product.Then another
legislator says what is now happening is "good" and exactly what he
wanted to happen by promoting the bill. . . Liars are liars,
regardless of how they want to spin and oh, how the spinners are at work
now....all in a shameless attempt to save their political careers and that even
includes a family member of ours.
The problem we have is this: We say whatever the Dems are for we are against.
Then, if the Dems become against it we say we are for it. -- What
we should be saying is: These are my values, these are my principles. I will
individually look to see if a suggestion is supporting those. ----Openness and transparency in Government has always been a valued principle
by Repubs and Dems. This time in our legislature the Democrats
'stayed the course' and voted for keeping openness and transparency while our
GOP representatives swam like flemings in the wrong direction. Powell makes a point we've all known happens: Legislative Leaders do pressure
legislators to vote in a particular way at times. Why should that ever occur?
My legislator may be voting against their constituents will.
Sure don't want to display my ignorance, but I was also sure the legislature
would kill this bill and have the sponsor's funeral the same day. Then again
this reflects the secrecy notion so patently safeguarded in Utah.Are
we being driven toward business as usual policies just like D.C.?
Congratulations to the fine people of Utah of all political stripes and
backgrounds who are raising their voices against this ill-considered piece of
I will be happy to sign this petition - btw, when are we going to start a
petition to repeal HB 116, the bill that grants illegal aliens work permits
after paying a fine and opens the door to importing workers from Mexico?
All this fuss, and all the while many of our elected representatives had heard
the cry of the people and took action to police themselves. Yes, for some they
had second thoughts; my Senator called for pulling it back early and admitted
"we got it wrong". We the people have over the past years allowed
our representatives to believe they were making the right choices because we
were silent. We complained to each other, at the water cooler, but we didn't
engage in actual conversation with these people. They are human beings and do
make mistakes, but it is OUR JOB to communicate to them on a consistent basis
what we like and what we do not like. We walk into the booth and
elect them, then walk away and never talk to them again until the next campaign.
I'm pretty sure that if I was voting during the session and no one called me to
tell me what they wanted me to do; I would believe that the people just agreed
with me. IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY, as their boss, to give them periodic reviews
and instructions. That's what bosses do.
If this bill were voted upon by the people of Utah it would go down in a
devastating defeat, yet our representatives voted for it..Go figure. How bout
the Gov, he signs the bill then says now he doesn't like it?. The Speaker of the
House has set new standards in double talk that may never be equaled in the
annuls of Utah history. When ploiticians will not even name the person who wrote
the Bill what does that tell you..But rejoice they gave themselves a B+..
Psst Pagan, I didn't know if you knew it or not but George Bush hasn't been
President for quite a while. The guy in the Oval Office now is much worse
though.I have never agreed with Rocky Anderson on anything until
now. Shame on our legislators..shame on you.
'Psst Pagan, I didn't know if you knew it or not but George Bush hasn't been
President for quite a while.' - JNA | 9:51 a.m. So, JNA, that means
Bush didn't sign the Patriot Act into law now? Cursory Wiki search:
'The USA PATRIOT Act (commonly known as the "Patriot
Act") is an Act of the U.S. Congress that was signed into law by President
George W. Bush on October 26, 2001.' The 2001 Republican controlled
congress. The constant claims that Obama should 'fix' our
problems... means that Bush LEFT them for Obama to fix. Cut and run
much? You try to IGNORE who passed the patriot act, while trying to
say that OTHERS should fix it. Shame? Shame on those
who CREATE problems and then run away. Shame on those who try to DEFLECT
responsibility for something they created...onto others. Shame on those
who claim to SERVE the public, and then work so they don't have to ANSWER to the
public. Trying to forget Bush are we JNA? Republicans
voted Bush into office...twice. And voted for Herbert...who signed
It's good to see the people band together to try to stop the things believe
in.My hat is off to you, and I hope you the people of Utah can get the bill off
(on Passing This bill) "has given us the opportunity, the great opportunity
to have this discussion, to engage the public."--Speaker LockhartWell Thank you Ms. Pelosi!And I always thought our Legislators were to
engage us in conversation and then represent us. But it looks like the way it
works is they pass legislation and see if we care enough to engage them...Where do I sign?
What a different cast of characters. I'm with them on this one. Secrecy is for
the underworld, unless it involves national security.The only time secrecy
for the dems is a noble thing is when Obama gets to have private conversations
on his blackberry with rev. wright, Bill Ayers and others. Well, at least
in this instance we are on the same page.
JGatesUt, You're right, the legislators should listen to what the people
say and if we remain silent we are partially at fault for their errors.
However, in this case the people DID speak loud and clear about this bill (in
the short time it was unveiled until it was too quickly passed). The Gov.
certainly knew how the people felt, seeing as he watched a demonstration
on the Courthouse steps and received a tremendous amount of email opposing
it.Yet, he signed it anyway. I found it extremely insulting that the Gov.
claimed he signed it so there would be time to "discuss" it afterward.
In plain English, taking time to talk about it really means that they will let
you rant and rail about the unfairness of it, but then they will go back smugly
to their cushy offices, thinking they have condescended to listen to the will of
the people, but change nothing and the let the law stand, as is. I'm
proud of the Utahns who have stepped up to the plate to repeal the law and those
who will sign the petitions. Now if we can only do the same for hb116.
where is the petition? Is it in central Utah?
We need to investigate this session of the legislature for criminal and ethical
wrongdoing. Writing unconstitutional laws for the benefit of your corporate
donors is wrong. Proposing laws that were written by lobbiests from a 501c3
group is illegal. Our lawmakers have unapolagetically joined lobbiest groups and
pass laws for their benefit. They belong in prison.
You want to know what happens when the legislature recognizes that they have
done something stupid, and that a referendum will embarrass the legislature and
reverse something they want? Just look at the ethics reform
referendum. The legislature "triangulated" the effort by passing
their own "ethics reform" to take the air out of the citizens
referendum. The legislature then changed the rules and laws around the
referendum process, making it more difficult to successfully carry out a
referendum and get it on the ballot.Our legislators think we are
stupid. They think that we know nothing, and that we must simply trust our
legislators...they will tell us what is right, what is good, and what we should
do. "Here, watch what my right hand is doing" while the left hand is
taking money and power from citizens. Just watch for the
"changes" that will occur to HB477 before the referendum is completed.
Legislators will try hard now to protect their power, their status, their
positions. They will work very hard to make us forget their arrogance.Tell me where to sign this referendum. After that I will vote against any
legislator that supported HB477.
I will be voting against our current governor as well.
Our elected officials knew this was wrong, and that is why they snicked it in
and rushed its approval. Everyone that voted for this measure should be
recalled as they are representing themselves, not the people that elected them.
The whole process of this Speaker of the House made any other legislative
positive action for naught. There are too many questions why she fast-tracked
and slammed dunk this HB477. Is it her husband's influence? Is it the Tea
Party's influence, is it the Eagle Forum influence? One has to have Integrity
and Honesty to maintain an open and honest discussion with the public. To
withhold information and the process from her fellow legislators is a disgrace
to the process if she wants to maintain a civility with her party. It is more
than a party aspect. Utah is know for honesty and openess in our process. She
has made it so legislators are now backtracking to maintain their own descency
and honor, now that the quick process is unfolding. If you do 99 good things and
the next one is egregious to the public and openess and Integrity of the system,
the B+ you gave yourselves, to the C Dr. Jowers gave to F- is a failure for any
other part of the legislature. Trying to save any part of this HB477, if there
is a sponsor will be a failure.