And I thought that we had the worst legislators in the country down here in
Arizona. Thank you Utah, for making Arizona look good.
"But the governor says his action has created time for an open dialogue
that he believes will produce a better bill."Baloney! His
action is so that the issue will be dropped from the front page of the news
paper and fade from public interest.Secrecy in government is the
fist step toward a tyrannical autocratic government. It has been said that
watching the legislative process is like watching sausage being made. I suppose
if we knew what goes into sausage we wouldn't want it... Same with some laws.
Someone needs to watch the entire process. The bill that Herbert signed will
put a damper on that process. Not good.
Gov Herbert -Really? Couldn't you think of some other excuse for
signing it or just say that you too do not want your texts and e-mails open for
public view?Do you think we are dumb? Give us more time to talk
about it...if you were serious about that, you would have vetoed it and told the
legislature to start over with serious discussions - not just ram it through.
We see through you, Gov Herbert. Time will tell if this is the straw that makes
you an ex-gov.I am not voting for you.
But a veto would have been even better for "allow[ing] more time to discuss
further changes." You shouldn't pass laws first and then figure out what
they'll actually do later. Figure it out first, then pass, then make changes if
necessary. It's pretty simple.
This bill was rammed through the Legislature without any real discussion or
debate. Now, thanks to Governor Herbert's signature, it's the law of the state
of Utah. The proper course of action for the governor was to veto the bill,
then discuss the issue over the summer and fall, and reintroduce the legislation
in the next session. Unfortunately, there are no brakes on the system in Utah
anymore. There are no checks to the majority rule.
So why couldn't he have vetoed it and said "Let's do the special session
anyway?" By signing off on it he can try to save face with the Republicans
in the state legislature and somehow explain away why he didn't veto it. As a
result, he made everyone made during this process. True leadership isn't afraid
to say no. True leadership gets out in front on issues that no one else wants
to deal with. Time for not only a new state legislature but a new governor.
Just keep explaining yourself Herbert. It dosen't change the fact
that this bill never should have gone through... and only reinforces
that this was the wrong choice that you made... and reinforces the
question of why people voted for you.
Herbert's explanation makes no sense to me.If he disagreed with the bill
he should have either vetoed it outright or pocket vetoed.It's good that
there will be further consideration of the bill this spring but if the further
consideration does not produce a "better" bill then the bill that was
passed and signed will go into effect.
*'E-mail raises new questions about influence of Herbert campaign contributions'
- By John Daley and Lisa Riley Roche - DSNews - 09/28/10Line: 'SALT
LAKE CITY Gov. Gary Herbert "should remember" that the construction
company boss on his meeting schedule is a $50,000 first-time donor who wants to
talk "about transportation construction and issues within the
state." So, Herbert has to also defend the campaign
contributions he got BEFORE the same donors get awarded a $1.7 billion dollar
I-15 project... and then, 6 MONTHS later HB477 would have factually
prevented the release of his same emails. Shame on Herbert. And shame on those who vote for him.
What about the freedom of information act? come on gov do your job and dont do
your job based on winning more votes. serve the citizens of this state like you
swore to do. My taxes along with others taxes pay your wages and keep this state
running so we have a right to see what you guys are doing because we pay for the
phones and the paper. Do your job and stop brown nosing for votes.
Don't blame me for this. I didn't vote for Herbert.
I guess this bill couldn't wait until next year so that it could be thoroughly
researched and all compromises met. What's the big rush??? Who is trying to
hide the next scandal?
Is there any Utahn who is not a legislator, who likes this bill and if so, why?
Utah, Utah this makes this state look like some sort of hard nose 3rd world
country. Come on people we can do better than these corrupt leaders. please.
passing a law so that it can be changed? what I am missing here? I must be as
stupid as the governor thinks I am.Utah, why are we putting up with
No further inquiries will be required. The bill has been signed. There will be
no changes, no debate, no disclosure. Mr. Herbert has assured us all of one
thing, government is not ours to scrutinize or question. Not even the Democrats
voiced concern over this bill. How does freedom die? With thunderous applause by
our legislature as they congrtulate each other on a job well done.
Just like the Federal Healthcare legistation, bad laws are passed and extended
into the future. This is one of the big issues with having a one-party system;
there is no effective counter-balance to stupid laws. This law is
also a sign of a "bunker mentality" and political cowardice. "Oh
no, the scary media is going to tell on me!" What makes the legislature
think that they are special and deserve some kind of protection from the
voters?This is yet another example that both parties are crazy and
need each other to keep from doing something stupid.
It seems like this should be a ballot initiative. If the government is trying
MY access to records, they shouldn't be the ones deciding that. That is similar
to a child unilaterally deciding his parents aren't allowed in his room, and
then enforcing that.
Sign the bill, then claim to work on fixing it? That is completely backwards.
Veto it, then fix it.This sounds shady. Good way for legislators to
use their offices to enrich themselves and their friends with tax payer money
without tax payers being able to find out about it.
This explanation makes absolutely no sense to me. In order to take more time to
hash things out, would not a veto have been more effective? Thank you for
taking time to explain your reasoning, Governor Herbert, but I come away feeling
like Oliver, and wanting to ask, "Please sir, I want some more." The
more being a more substantial explanation.
Where's all the patriots now? eh?
Is anybody surprised about Herbert's logic? Can you say "puppet
majmajor | 1:10 p.m.Just like with the Federal Healthcare
legislation... If you don't like it that much... Elect NEW legislators and
change it!I agree this is not the RIGHT way to do things (rushing
the vote, you gotta pass it to find out what's in it, etc)... but ELECTIONS are
the mechanism designed into our Representative form of government to change
things you don't like. It's the mechanism you use if you feel the people in
office aren't listening to you.
There is no open dialogue or coming to the table unless it occurs before a bill
is passed into law. What we have now are peasant citizens and media members
pleading for mercy from the almighty legislature.
Herbert signed it because no matter what he does - he has an "R" next
to his name which means automatically means he will get elected.That's what happens in a state full of sheeple.
'Where's all the patriots now? eh?' - Duke | 1:45 p.m. March 9, 2011 I'm glad you brought that up. I give you, the Patriot Act. Signed
into law, in 10/26/01 by George W. Bush (Another Republican) it allows search of
private property WITHOUT warrent, or court approval.'The Patriot Act
increases the government's surveillance powers in four areas: # 2 Secret
searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without
notice to the owner. (Section 213)' - ACLUThe claims that
Republicans want to 'protect your freedoms'...rings false when they
1) Create laws to allow unlawful searches to your private property...and then 2) Create state laws to PREVENT email and text message transparency
Explanation? No, Governor, you need to grovel and BEG our forgiveness for this
foolish action. We know what this is really all about, we aren't that stupid.
An explanation would be nice. All we got was another excuse for lack of
transparency. We do know what this is really all about. It's about keeping the
electorate from finding out how things are actually done here in Utah. No wonder
we are the fraud capital of the United States. We need Huntsman back here, the
inmates are running the asylum, and raping the treasury.
Hey wait a seond - Pagan bring up a great point.The Republicans pass
"The Patriot Act" allowing the Government to pry into citizens private
conversations.And now Republicans pass HB477 barring the citizens
access into Government private converstions.We can all see clearly
now who's right and who's wrong.
2 bits | 1:51 p.m. March 9, 2011 Cottonwood Heights, UT No.
You are wrong. I was deployed during the last mass meetings and Utah didn't
allow me to attend mine from outside the U.S. If we don't like the actions of
the elected officials it is our right and duty to remind them that they are
acting as stupid as the other party.The actions of the Dems to push
the Federal Healthcare Law, was as stupid as the Reps actions for HB477.
"Sign and fix." It hurts to think that our state elected officals are
as stupid as the Federal Dems.The greatness of the Federal
Constitution isn't about always being "right." It is to frame the
debate and ensure that a debate occurs over competing interests.What
are you really objecting to?
New slogan for Utah license plate: "Utah: Getting Closer to North Korea
Everyone in Utah must look like a complete fool to the Governor because to stuff
coming out of his mouth about this bill is just nonsense. If you want the bill
to be reworked you would veto the bill, not sign it.Those who
created this bill and those that forced it through as well as the Governor
himself need to be taught that it is government for the people not in spite of
the people. They all must be voted out now.
I have always believed in the "Tooth Fairy." I'm the frog that
eventually died as the heat was applied to the pot of water. Yes, the Governor
should have veto'd it and washed his hands of it. Period. Don't want to use
the Obama phrase of "Change" but unfortunately CHANGE is what we need.
Vote 'em all out this next term. The topic of term limits is for another day,
but I believe in having term limits.
I can't believe the gov. came up with such backward logic (first pass the thing,
then we'll work on it). It's completely ridiculous. Such arrogance, especially after he saw the people demonstrating against it.
The legislature is also to blame, for hiding this bill from the people until it
was time to vote on it. Can someone find out who sponsored and voted for this
LDS Liberal 2:42 p.m.Partisan finger-pointing is fun... but I
wouldn't be so quick to pretend that Patriot_Act is a one-sided Republican
thing. ---#1-Remember... Barak Obama signed the act
back into law in 2010... and the Democrat Super-Majority controlled Congress
extended it and made it back into law when it expired.So it's not so
much a ONE PARTY issue as you think.#2-Also realize that the
majority of Democrats in Congress voted FOR it when it first came up back in
2001. Then when all they had to do was NOTHING... they voted it back into law
again in 2010!---You and Pagan like to play this
"Blame it on the Repug" game... but it doesn't work when you use such
lame examples (or examples you don't know the real history on).DEMOCRATS... are the reason the Patriot Act is LAW TODAY!---I acknowledge Republicans also play a HUGE roll in the Patriot_Act being
law today... But you gotta acknowledge the DEMOCRAT'S roll voting it into law...
if you're going to be a blamer. Democrats don't have clean hands on the
The governor didn't expect the public outcry against this bill. Whow, he didn't
expect the public outcry against vouchers but the people's voice was heard
during the referendum. So how is the people's voice going to be heard this time?
The governor should have vetoed this bill and let the legislature overide his
veto but now it's law and whatever changes are made still won't reflect what the
people think. Why because there seems to be a disconnect between what the people
want and what the legislature votes in. I wish there was some way to
get the people to remember stuff like this during the election so their voice
could be heard and they'd elect someone that truly represents them instead of
someone that represents delegates and happens to have an R beside their name.
@Furry1993: Nobody voted for Herbert. He snuck in the back door when President
Obama stole our Governor to make him ambassador to China. He was a nobody
before that and should become a nobody again with the next election.
Welcome to Communist Utah!
I sent my email to the Governors to complaint and for him to reconsider not
signing HB477 and the automated response I recieved from the Govenors office was
"Governor Huntsman appreciates your comments and wants to thank you for
your email."Governor Huntsman? I suspect my email is still
floating in hyperspace and good ole boy Governor Herbert never got my email,
probably because he doesn't care. I will never vote for him again.
If you are angry about Gov. Herbert's signature attend the "Shine the
Light on Government" RallyUtah Capitol, March 10 - 6:00 PMBring
a flashlight & meet at the fountain.
The bigger the government, the more corrupt it is.REDUCE government
- reduce the tax load.
I was very concerned over the slam-dunk the House and Senate process of the
GRAMA legislation. For a part of the open process of government, I was appalled
at how quick the leadership and members of both the Senate and House kept their
constituents in the dark and was the complete opposite of open and frank
discussion with our elected officials and their supposedly review of their own
process plus the extensive executive government. I just think of the whole
process of the UDOT awarding the Utah county I-15 project and the potential for
the GRAMA law to help defuse conflict that the state had been open with their
bidding process. GRAMA is for our protection, for elected officials, to keep
our government a viable body for the people. I have lived in many countries
that dont have an open process and that is not for the good of the people nor
the government. I was hoping the Governor would use his voice and not be
persuaded to avert an open process such as this past slam-dunk activity.
Isn't this exactly what the Republicans have been squawking about with what the
Resolute Voice | 1:07 p.m. March 9, 2011Salt Lake City, UTNo further
inquiries will be required. The bill has been signed. There will be no changes,
no debate, no disclosure. Mr. Herbert has assured us all of one thing,
government is not ours to scrutinize or question. Not even the Democrats voiced
concern over this bill. How does freedom die? With thunderous applause by our
legislature as they congrtulate each other on a job well done. =============================Oh yes, we did! But our voices are very
small in Utah. I'm rejoicing right now in hopes that the blind may suddenly
begin to see the light.
I appreciate the strategic position the Governor took on this bill by signing it
after having it recalled and amended and now to be studied. But I would have
preferred if the bill had never been dreamed up in the first place as I say that
all of those that voted for it should be ousted just on the principle of
transparency in government. Especially in a State whose residents because of
their faith have a highly principled opinion of ethical behavior and the
knowledge between right and wrong and this was wrong and the State
representatives who voted for it should know that and I am sure they do know
that and I hope that they will now do the proper and correct thing and withdraw
the bill in its entirety and give the public the transparency that they deserve
and are owed by their representatives and senators. This entire escapde has been
atrocious and offensive to the citizens of Utah who depend upon our elected
officials to protect, defend and serve us. Please make us proud to call you our
elected officials once again by abolishing of this bill permanently and not just
by revising it.
Gov. Herbert you just lost my vote at the next election. My representatives
lost their votes from me too. That the Utah legislative branch wanted to limit
access to records because some lawsuits put an undue burden on the staffs who
provide GRAMA records, is about as dumb an excuse as anyone could come up with.
I'll pay an extra .01% in tax to take care of those requests in order to keep
government open and lawmakers honest. For the first time I am a little ashamed
to be a Republican.
Wow! This is very cool. I just read through all the comments (scanned some of
them, but I think I got the gist), and every single one dislikes this bill. Amazing, posters that are left, right, and middle and every single one
of them disagrees with this bill. This is sincerely a good thing.
We, the extremely diverse, and opinionated, posters on the D-news
comment board, have found common ground on an issue! Really, this is
a very good thing. Maybe we can see we have more in common then we think. Maybe
we can find common ground, the things that bind us together and work towards
achieving those things, rather then always focusing on that which divides us. I
bet if we actually looked at things we would discover we have far more in common
then not. In fact I know we do. Remember: united we stand, divided
we fall.I think there are forces out there that would like to see us
divided. We do have more in common then otherwise. Lets remember
that as we discuss the things we disagree on.
@ The Patriot 10:17You took the words right out of my mouth! I consider
myself 'conservative' but labels mean nothing when we can all unite and say that
this bill stinks! "We have to pass it so we have time to fix it?"
Man, there have been times when I thought the government was broken, but it
sounds like it is worse than I thought. Shame on you Utah legislature! As a
registered Republican, I might just actually go to my caucus meeting because I
have some questions I want answers to!
Excuses. Take a strong stand and push back instead of roll over. Oh well, the
consequences of one party rule. Utah is getting what they asked for.
A true leader would have vetoed the bill, stared down the legislature, and dared
them to override it.
This bill is not the result of one party rule. It is a result of a rouge
government, and I think we are all resigned to do something about this.Our representatives just made a huge mistake. Mistakes do happen from time to
time. Now we must make sure they fix the mistake and that they learned from it
so they will not do it again. Speak up loud and clear people. Let your voices be
heard. If we want transparent government, we must not let this bill stand.For those few Democrats in our legislature, here is your chance to lead
out. You have the support of a vast majority of the citizens of Utah behind you.
Start the push to have this bill rescinded.For those few Republicans
that were against this bill, Stand up now and lead the charge to get this piece
of legislation off the books.
I had to dig to find this story Deseret News! How is this not front page
Will all you angry comment makers be at Thursday's 6 pm protest?
Will the Deseret News ask for all the documents and information relating to the
conception,progress through committee(s), sponsors,legislators, Governor,
constituent, public comments re: HB477. Can we see? Can we learn? Last
Reply to EgbertThrockmorton: People were angry at Corroon during the governor's
campaign when they thought he was using dirty tactics when exposing
irregularities of the Herbert administration. Thanks to Peggy for your comment
reminding us how we're going to have to withstand Herbert-logic...
Citizen taxes pay for all the activities and salaries of gov't officials, but we
are not allowed to know what you do?!! Only in Utah have the people given up
their right to be americans. This BULL would not fly anywhere else!We live in a hole literally! Lake Bonneville dried up and Salt Lake remains.
Noting that our families live in this hole: Who brings or allows nuclear waste
into a hole where their family lives? Who allows the development of chemical and
biological weapons in a hole where their family lives? (Dugway, Spanish Fork,
etc !!).With increased nuclear dumping so close to Salt Lake and
Europe waiting to dump here too. I see the need to hide things. Everything I
hear these days seems to make us, THE PEOPLE WHO PAY YOUR BILLS, less
significant!Doesn't my 100K+ in tithing donations over the years get
me some protection? How about my taxes? My good deeds? No? Not even in Utah?!
Honestly?!! Can it be true? 90% of our politicians are LDS? Then who is selling
us out?!!! Where will the toxins go if we have a big earthquake? THE PEOPLE !!! not the money!!!!
Hope Govenor Herbert can get this BAD idea stopped or at leat significantly
changed.Who cam came up with the idea? Was it Qaddafi?