Its an easy solution. Throw those that hire them (illegals) into jail and the
illegals will move onto greener pastures. They might even go home.
This poll proves one thing:That Dan Jones asks confusing
questions......how else can you explain the swing in polls?Dan asks:
Do you support or oppose an immigration bill requiring enforcement by local
police? Well of course your going to get a controversial outcome?Why not ask : do you support Illegal Immigration?and then
lets see where the concensus lies....How about it Dan Jones...the democrat who
never saw a liberal agenda he didn't like....
Laws change.(Child Labor Laws) They come and go. (Native American Treaties)
What is good and right in one generation, turns out to be bad in another.
(Slavery) And then there are those unintended bad consequences when we have
tried so hard to do the right thing. (Welfare Entitlements)Such is
the case with current Federal Immigration law. It is broken, busted, and full of
unintended bad consequences. Utah has the right and obligation to
take the bull by the horns and rein in this bad law by implementing good State
law that is reasonable, practical and humane; one that will document workers,
even those who are currently working and subsisting in the dark underbelly side
of society. We have a tradition in Utah for innovation, creativity,
wisdom, humanity,and being our brother's keeper through replacing the bad with
good. I know we can do this in 2011 and come up with a good immigration
solution. I personally favor the principles in the Utah Compact and
am encouraging my Senator and Legislator to implement good worker law that
promotes economic prosperity, freedom and public safety for all who work and
live in Utah, citizen or not.
Who was short-sighted enough to make guest workers illegal in the first place?
The Compact is flawed, It suggests that immigration is a solely a Federal Matter
but if you study the 1836 US Supreme Court case NY vs Miln and read the opinions
of Justice Henry Baldwin, and others you will see that immigration is a State
Issue and not a Federal issue.
Perhaps a new state gun would solve the problem. Or a day to honor Ronald
Reagan. Or, a pronouncement that our government is a republic.
Reasons it is so tough:1. Federal Gov has created the issue.
A. Won't take action on border (easy to fix) B. Won't develop a simple
immigration program to meet our nation's needs. c. Handed out ITIN tax
numbers for years-- thus,encouraging many illegals to come and work.
D. Won't simplify a solution for illegals to fix their illegal status.2. States/citizens have benefitted from the presense of illegal
immigrants.3. Most Americans are sympathetic to the needs of the
poor and those actually willing to work.4. Outdated use of Social
Security numbers for Identification--this should be stopped immediately.5. Our nation NEEDS migrant workers to fill many jobs/positions that
Americans WILL not do. When was the last time you saw a white kid who would
pick strawberries or landscape a yard? Most white kids now think they should
make $25/hr out of high school. (Parents fault) What white person, normally,
wants to change sheets in a hotel? Not many. If YOU are honest, you'll admit
there is a need, and the Federal Government won't change fast enough to meet
Sandstrom's bill, revoking the drivers privilege cards, revoking in state
tuition, and pass Herrods E-verify bill. Along with the rest of Utah signing up
to secure communities, and we start enforcing laws, without undo harm. No one has a right to give away American jobs in this country. Their coming
for our jobs (Robles) show they have no intention of assimilating and becoming
citizens. The jobs are gone, it's time for the guest workers to go home.
What is the point of making and having laws in any country if they aren't going
to be enforced? Law makers (politicians) aren't going to bat for us; they're
trying to stay in office and collect the big paychecks so they can live above
what the rest of us know as reality. Elected officials are elected on their
promises and they are not keeping them nor making good on the promises and laws
that are already supposed to be in place. Whether state of federal, the laws
are all being ignored or changed to fit whatever the politicians believe will
get them re-elected.
The state has no right to legislate, we're told -- unless it's the Mero-Robles
bill. Then it's okay. Sure.
The polls mean nothing to me -- the questions are couched with the intent to
confuse and to improve the likelihood of certain outcome. But
doubtless the astonishing level of corruption in this state, and the thick,
relentless fog of propaganda lies that are spread by people who know they are on
the opposite side of the law and Constitution, is causing considerable
@Mary E PettyI know you've been asked this before but I have yet to
see a direct response to this question.Other than the lack of
enforcement of current immigration laws, what part of those laws, in your view,
are broken?I tire of hearing this vague "broken" claim
with no substance to back it up.
@CWEBWow, a bit racist towards whites are we? I know
plenty of "white kids" who do landscaping, even some who have started
there own landscaping businesses. You may have seen them. Their the ones
pushing the lawn mower at their neighbors house. Your arguments are ridiculous,
white people won't change sheets? Are you kidding me? Maybe in bizzaro world.
Your argument about illegals doing jobs that Americans won't do is tired and has
been proven wrong again and again. Check the construction industry where
Americans are unemployed at a level much higher than the national average while
employers hire and pay illegals under the table wages that equate to what a
normal worker would make minus income tax, social security, unemployment
insurance, benefits, etc, etc.Pray tell where exactly U.S. Citizens
have benefited from illegal immigration? I would love to see the study. That
must be why Arizona is so up in arms about the subject. Not because it has been
a drag on their state in about every way possible. No, because in bizzaro world
states try to remove anything that might benefit them.
Enforcement is the solution.
We want an enforcement solution, amnesty is not a solution, it just keeps
putting a real solution off to the future. We tried it once and it did not stop
the problem, it just made it worse. It's finally coming out that
most people here illegally don't want citizenship. Most in the legal Hispanic
community have known that for years, but no one dared speak out, because those
favoring illegal immigration used citizenship as a discussion point. It is about
taking jobs. Undercutting America's entry level workers and building up a big
fat nest egg at home. CWEB, our country has a solution for those
here illegally, it's called legal immigration. There is no reason our country
should change our laws to accommodate those who break them. If a person wants to
be a citizen, they will wait. If they want a job, go home and apply for a work
visa when they become available.
Enforce exiting law. It is not broken it is unenforced.
This issue is not that difficult. "Enforce existing laws"! If the laws
are unjust in the eyes of the people of this country then we change them. That's
why we have elected officials. The only percieved injustice in the laws for
illegal immigration as they stand are by those who are here illegally and by
those that benifit from them being here. If we the people removed corrupt
politicians, stop spending money at buisnesses that have illegals on the work
force and spend no more money on media that support illegal immigration the
desire for illegal immigrants to come here would be greatly reduced.
Certainly Utah has no right to make immigration law. It does, however, have the
right to control employment within its borders. Get Herrod's eVerify law
passed. Make it stick and make it apply to all businesses. Hire an illegal and
either pay a big fine or lose your business license. It may be that simple - if
an illegal can't get a job, then maybe they'll go home on their own. If they
won't leave and break the law, put them in jail and then deport them. If
businesses want foreign workers, make them use existing Federal programs. Duh.
The solution is......."Enforcement"!
I live in Southern California and would like to share with the people in Utah
what Illegal immigration has done to this state. We are overwhelmed with Illegal
Immigrants. Our schools are severely overcrowded and the quality of education
has dropped dramatically. Crime committed by Illegals including
carjackings,identity theft, hit and run, drug trafficking, murder and assault
has increased tremendously. People who are working in the construction
trades,the service sector,manufacturing and transportation and others have seen
their wages plummet and businesses who employ U.S. citizens suffer while those
who employ Illegals prosper. Illegal Immigration is eroding the tax base here in
California. Illegal Immigrants pay little or no taxes and create enormous social
financial liabilities for our state. Illegal Immigrants drive down wages and
therefor lower tax remittances overall. Illegal Immigration is costing the
California taxpayer BILLIONS every year in lost revenue! I hope and pray that
Utah doesn't become like California because we are in hopeless economic and
rapid social decline. Be careful.
I'm surprised at this one:"Seventy-one percent support creating a
state-issued work permit for undocumented immigrants to allow them to stay here
if they have a job and agree to a criminal background check."How was this actually phrased in the survey?If an illegal
immigrant has a job, isn't s/he taking money under the table (tax fraud) or
committing identity theft already?
Utahns want immigration solution, just not sure what it is, yet these
constitutionalist Rush Limbaugh wannabee's rednecks can't figure out that they
still say President Lincoln once walked three miles to pay back a penny. That
makes him the last president to do anything about the debt. The debt that
illegal immigration puts us all in. HEY Utah, unless and until we face up to
the severe violations of our laws and do everything possible to put a stop to
them, we will never solve this problem or the cost problem. According to an
estimate of the Pew Hispanic Center, in 2005 there were an estimated 75,000 to
100,000 illegal aliens living in Utah. In 2004 alone the taxpayers of Utah spent
$184.4 million per year on illegal aliens and their children in public schools.
The projected annual fiscal costs to Utah taxpayers for emergency medical care,
education and incarceration resulting if an amnesty is adopted for illegal
residents in 2010 was $417,000,000. Water is already a scarce resource in this
desert state, and the increased demand generated by population growth is
exacerbating the problem. REPORT, then let ICE deport. Hows that?.
E verify doesnt work for independent contract work which is exempt under the I 9
presently so please get your lawmaker to amend his bill to include all work.
This is your construction, landscaping, etc work and if you dont have illegals
doing any of this work; CO will be happy to send you ours.Real ID
comes in May and when you need a passport to get on a plane, a federal building
etc like NM and WA; well you can deal with that pain of a neck since the feds
like to know who is who.
If Utah panders to illegals one more year and that's all it will take, we will
have Chaos on our hands. California is broke, Las Vegas is broke, Arizona is
tightening their belts on illegal immigration. Illegals love sanctuary cities.
The illegals are already moving her and expecting welfare and jobs. How are we
as a state going to be able to adjust to a bigger population of them. Fix it now
or it will just get uglier next year. Politicians of Utah needs to be realistic.
They don't live among us do they?
Danasic:We are all going broke due to illegals but UT, NM and WA are
worse off due to their own faults of encouraging illegals to come.Time you got rid of some of your lawmakers like CO will do in 2012 as we have
lawmakers here the same ones by the way, who want in state tuition but wont pass
I cannot honestly believe there is another pro-illegal immigrant article in the
paper today. Unbelievable!The Utah Compact is a good document that
talks to the legal immigrants in Utah. I agree with the basic concepts of the
document, but am 100% against illegal immigration.Why are lawmakers
trying to skirt around existing laws? I continue to read about how passing a
work permit for illegals will help our economy. So are you telling me that we
should ignore current law and allow illegals a free pass because somehow you
believe it will benefit us economically? No way.Enforce the laws
that are in place, get illegals out of our state!
To Mary Pity: we are still waiting to hear from you, what in our immigration law
is "broken" or is a "bad law"? You are probably like many
other people who just repeat what the pro-illegal propaganda says: that the law
is broken, that we are racists, bigots, intolerants, etc, etc. Please get your
facts straight. I am a proud legal immigrant, and I have always felt welcomed in
Utah. We do not welcome ILLEGAL immigrants. Do you understand the difference?
"Utahs want immigration solution, just not sure what it is" ---- are
you kidding me??? Try looking at the above posts. We want the law enforced!!!!
Deseret News, you are losing all credibility on this issue. Your lopsided
pro-illegal reporting is obvious!
The poll questions are confusing because the word "immigrants" did not
always clarify between "legal" and "illegal".I support
the Utah Compact because it has compassion for LEGAL immigrants and our own
citizens. Racial profiling is not a solution if our own citizens are to be free.
Black and white, all or nothing laws tie the hands of law enforecement. Plus, the reciprocity laws of other countries are stiffling
International business for the US and charities and missions. The US needs to
be more open to legal immigration so we can get back to business.
Razzle2, with over 1 million people each year admitted legally (not including
work and school visas), how much more open can we be?
So much talk about enforcing the law, I had no idea how many law abiding
citizens we had here in the US of A, yet the crime rate in this country dictates
a huge amount of hypocrisy. In other words if its a law that will rid the
country of someone that is diffrent with a diffrent language and skin color we
are all for it 100%. If its drug use, drunk driving, fraud, traffic violations,
cheating on your taxes, not paying child support etc etc.... well those are bad
but we dont judge.
@Dan Walters 8:01. Good comment. Everyone I talk to from California says the
same thing. Due to the politicians there allowing the whole state to be a
sanctuary state they have only one solution and that is bankruptcy. Even now
the state is giving IOU's for refunds. What's next, a California currency? The
big question now is whether BO will attempt to bail them out which means our tax
money going there to do it. Their politicians are to blame. Let's support our
Reps who are trying to avoid the same thing happening here.
Hugo, this is not about racism. This is about treating people the same. Why on
earth should illegals be treated differently from legal immigrants? We paid our
dues, waited in line, and followed the rules to get our green cards. Why should
we reward people who try to cheat the system? They willingly break our laws -
they cross the border or overstay their visas, commit identity theft, take jobs
without DHS authorization, and the list goes on and on. They should face the
consequences of their actions, not get a reward.
Pretty simple (and said before). If there aren't jobs the illegals will go home
/ not come. We need laws that force employers to verify the
citizenship of their workers and strong penalties for the ones caught breaking
the law.Then the illegals will self deport.
the big problem is the rich get richer and this was a grand plan for that
...chicken meat factories ..when it was the boom even here in utah...nobody
complained only the citizens who couldnt compete on the bids. Then we blame
these people to dare to dream...don't believe me on was the only english speaker
other than the boss as we built house after house...didnt the creator mention
charity but this state is racist anyways...always has always will...i say think
Missouri as thats gonna be a tuff state and i look forward to a new house then
cuz i take good care of as you all migrate
The poll must have been conducted in an Hispanic communities.The
simple point of fact is that all illegals want is to be here and have a job.
That's a worthy goal except...1. We have no jobs at this time for
them. We have 15 million unemployed Americans who are sucking up billions in
unemployment just sitting around the house in their easy chairs watching Bay
Watch, Jersey Shores, or reading the online DNews. These people need to get to
work. And they can't if we have illegals grabbing up their jobs. Not only that
but illegals drive wages down to what one might expect of a job in Mexico...
pennies an hour.2. If illegals are allowed to stay here either with
some kind of work permit or for other reasons, it will only invite others of
their brothers and sisters to sneak across the borders to enjoy the same
treatment. Illegals must be deported to stop this merry-go-round. America is
for Americans, not for the rest of the world no matter how needy they may
@John C. C.: "Who was short-sighted enough to make guest workers illegal
in the first place?"Guest workers make themselves illegal... by
overstaying their work visas. They forget to go home when their visas expire.
Making them illegal.-------------@VST:
"Additionally, even the absence of a direct conflict between state and
Federal law, a conflict exists if the state law is an obstacle to the
accomplishment and execution of the full purposes and objectives of
Congress."That's nice... But there's no conflict between
federal law and the recent Arizona law or Utah's Sanstrom bill because this
law/bill merely aims to enforce federal law, not challenge it. And, the will of
the President on immigration (i.e., curry immigrant votes) is not the will of
the Congress... which is set forth in law.--------------@CWEB "5. Our nation NEEDS migrant workers to fill many jobs/positions
that Americans WILL not do."There's no job on the face of this
earth that Americans won't do... if the wage is high enough. And why are
Americans not willing to take some jobs? Because wages are too low... Because
immigrants come in and drive wages down.
Thanks Dan Walters @ 8:01 a.m., for laying out what immigration can do to a
state. It makes sense looking at what is currently happening in Mexico, from
whence most immigrant come. It appears that California's huge debt problem is
substantially exacerbated by the influx of immigrants from south of the
border.---------------@Madden: "How was this
actually phrased in the survey?"Doesn't matter so much how it
was phrased in the survey. It merely matters to whom the survey questions were
posed. I suspect that the survey questions were asked mostly to Hispanics.---------------@Proud to be American: "Why are
lawmakers trying to skirt around existing laws?"Why? Because
they are trying to curry the vote of the immigrant.--------------@JBrady: "...with over 1 million people each year admitted legally
(not including work and school visas), how much more open can we be?"Go to YouTube and view 'Immigration Gumballs' to see what uncontrolled
immigration will do to this country.
@VST | 6:50 p.m.:"But the Court has ruled to have ALL
immigration law be directly controlled by the Congress and enforced by the
Federal officers (not the states) for execution of the "...full purposes
and objectives of Congress..."All immigration law IS controlled
by Congress.Illegals are not 'immigrants." They are, for want
of a better word, interlopers... law breakers from another country. Are
interlopers covered by Federal law? I don't think so. I could easily imagine
that illegal immigrants covered under federal law would be limited to those who
entered legally but overstayed their authorizing visas. Just sayin'.Further, the Arizona law and Utah bill merely address the conduct of illegals
in their respective states. Things such as driver licensing and instate
tuition. Which, let's hope, they have a right to do.And still
further, Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act law authorizes
the Fed to enter into agreements with state and local law enforcement,
permitting officers to perform immigration law enforcement functions. Under the
law ICE provides training and authorization to identify, process, and when
appropriate, detain immigration offenders they encounter during their regular,
daily law-enforcement activity.
287(g)was passed two years ago. Our attorney general wrote a letter telling the
Federal government under what circumstances Utah would work with them. The letter killed 287(g) in this state, except for Washington and Weber
counties. 287(g) has been greatly scaled back by Obama, allowing
many people discovered by local enforcement to stay. We have a
Federal government that is not protecting it's citizens jobs. That's why states
are forced to deal with the problem. By a large majority, Utahns want
VST, robbing a bank is a violation of Federal banking laws, what is your point?
Worker programs are called visas, we have had them for decades. They
are based on need, not demand. These guest worker bills will only give amnesty
to lawbreakers who came here for our higher paying jobs. If they want to work in
this country, they need to go home and come back on a worker visa when they are
John,Don't know why this is so hard for you to understand:Legal immigrant = good, makes positive contributionIllegal alien = bad,
foreign thief/criminalThat's what the people of Utah, and in fact
most Americans are saying. Why cannot you acknowledge it?
The reason the immigration laws are broken is that they only allow a trickle of
legal immigration from our southern neighbor, Mexico, when we need - not a flood
- but a good solid stream.People come here - at the risk of life and
limb and/or after making outrageous payments to coyotes - simply because of the
disparity between our two economies is so extreme.The difference in
per capita income (Gross Domestic Product) between the US and Mexico is greater
than that between any two nations sharing a land border in the entire world -
with only two exceptions: North vrs South Korea and Isreal vrs the
Palestinians. People in Mexico want to come here for the same
reasons our forefathers chose to do so. They would get in line to come....if
the line were big enough to present a decent chance of success.They
come here illegally and live like fugitives instead.They are our
neighbors....from just down the Continent ...of this single promised land.Take a few minutes and read what Jesus said about neighbors.(e.g. The Good Samaritan.)Jesus was hated for what he said about
neighbors...and enemies. Are you a good neighbor?