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Immigration bills putting Utah Latino community on edge

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  • Carson Provo, UT
    Feb. 14, 2011 8:52 p.m.

    "We have to understand that there is a lot of people scared and afraid in our community," Yapias said.

    Yes and most of them are "we the people" who are afraid that our elected officials are going to continue to let Illegals get a free ride while we the citizens of Utah pick up their bills! We want Rep. Sandtroms and Herrods bills passed now. Continue to email the Utah house and Senate demand that they fix the Illegal problem this session!

  • legalman Tooele, UT
    Feb. 14, 2011 9:07 p.m.

    Why do they always try to make it a race issue. It's about coming here legally and obeying the laws of the United States. Just because most of the illegal aliens are Hispanic shouldn't give them a free ride on American resources because of their race.

  • amsterdammer Sandy, Utah
    Feb. 14, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    I came here in 1964 from Holland, had to wait 2.5 years to get my VISA, spoke very little English, no job, no credit. I had 15 dollars and a place to stay for two weeks. I did not receive any government benefits. I had no health insurance. I worked and went to school. Nobody provided me with a translator, and there was no state or federal agency to give me anything. I just worked and was glad to be in the United States. If an individual commits a crime, that crime needs to be reported and the criminal needs to be punished - that's the law. So it is with illegal presence of anyone arriving and staying in the US. I resent the Spanish language on all packaging, on signs in stores, and now some cities want to have traffic signs translated in Spanish as well. I hate listening to Spanish messages when I call a large company. I have nothing against anyone who comes here legally, just like I did. I love Mexican food and the Mexican culture. My stand has nothing to do with having a white culture only.

  • Durfee Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 14, 2011 10:41 p.m.

    What's the deal with trying to blackmail the LDS church? These are probably the same people that are always whining about the separation of church and state, but now they think this tactic will help them get their way. I thought it was interesting that Mr. Lopez-Vargas says that Mormon missionaries are treated with respect in Mexico and that "We would like to be treated in the same way here in Utah." Does Mr. Lopez-Vargas realize that those missionaries are in Mexico legally? They actually went through legal channels to obtain appropriate visas. I would certainly hope that any immigrant that is here legally would be treated with respect. Those that are not here legally are breaking the law. That has nothing to do with race.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 12:07 a.m.

    As long as the citizens of Utah don't care about our jobs being taken, our children in High School not having any work, construction workers thrown out of the workforce, crime and violence coming into Utah and our taxes being used to take care of the illegal alien population then we don't get threatened. As soon as Americans stick up for ourselves and country we are called names and spit on. Our legislators lives are being threatened and our way of life is being changed. Do we go hide in our holes and them exploit the American Citizen? I think not.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Feb. 15, 2011 1:08 a.m.

    Picardi's "totally white" outburst is just uncalled for.

    There are people other than Latinos and whites in Utah. The Native Americans were there before anyone else. The fact that Picardi can act like there are not Tongans and Vietnamese in Utah, as well as Kenyans, Sudanese and Nepalese is interesting.

    Beyond this there are Latinos in Utah who are legal residents of the US. In fact there are Latinos in Utah who were born in the US, including Latinos in this situation who are adults.

    There needs to be a compromise, the drag them out and round them up like animals approach is not good, but making baseless accusations that there is an attempt to expel all Latinos and make the state all white (as if somehow one leads to the other) just need to be avoided.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Feb. 15, 2011 1:13 a.m.

    The majority of Mormon missionaries in Mexico are Mexicans. Whether they are treated with respect is probably a disputable issue.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Feb. 15, 2011 1:16 a.m.

    Where are the liberals who always complain about enforcement being on the backs of immigrants and not company owners? Why are they not out in force praising Herrod's bill?

    Personally I think what we need is to reform the immigration system. Amsterdammer should also realize when he came to the US the immigration system was racist, with huge quotas for Northern European countries that were never filled, and virtually no chance for immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe with immigrants from Africa and Asia almost totally banned.

  • Bryan Syracuse, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 2:02 a.m.

    Illegal aliens SHOULD be afraid of getting deported! They knowingly chose to break the law by coming here, and in doing so they should face the consequences. For them, the consequences should include deportation.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 5:03 a.m.

    Uncontrolled, unmonitored "immigration" is actually just invasion. We're spending $2,000,000,000/week on the other side of the planet invading other countries that are supposedly a threat to us--yet we let the cheap-labor lobby and the cheap-liberal-vote and bawl-baby lobbies convince us that we have no need to worry about the invasion of our own homeland. We have to be some of the naive and gullible people in the history of the world.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Feb. 15, 2011 5:45 a.m.

    "...a Latino activist delivered a letter to Salt Lake City's Mexican Consulate urging Mexico's president to suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until the LDS Church takes a stronger position on immigration."

    Perhaps a better idea would be to get signatures to take to the Consulate to urge Mexico's president to take extreme measures to deal with drug cartels, government and police corruption and fix economic failures that induce those from Mexico to want to come to the US in the first place.

    100% of US citizens and Mexican illegals would sign that petition.

    It is not the LDS Church's fault there are immigration problems.

    It is the Mexican Government's problem that people want/feel compelled to escape their dysfunctional country.

  • Craig Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:05 a.m.

    It just shows what a mess society becomes when there is no respect for the law.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:23 a.m.

    "We would like to be treated in the same way here in Utah," Lopez-Vargas said.

    Does this mean, that Mexicans will start printing everything in English? Will I get free medical care in Mexico? Will I be allowed to buy property in Mexico? Can I cross the border whereever and whenever I want to? Can I drive in Mexico without a license? Will I be able to buy a home and house 3 families in it? Will your schools be forced to teach in English? Will I get scholarships to Mexican Universities? Will the police not rip me off and demand money from me? Can I drive an uninsured car in Mexico with no penalties?

    As long as you want US citizens to be treated the same, let's make sure we're being treated the same.

    So Mexicans are no longer able to practice their beliefs in the US. Since you can focus on a religious group and deny them their freedom of worship....

    If you want to play hard ball, we certainly can play hard ball. Trouble is for you, the US holds all of the cards.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:26 a.m.

    "These bills are all targeted to our Latino brothers and sisters. It's time we called a spade a spade," he said. "They're trying to make this a totally white society with totally white workers."

    Utahns are on edge. Until the Hispanic community wakes up and realizes we are not going to open our borders to them, and let them control out immigration by coming when they want, there will be contention. Respect the country, the people, and start telling people to come here illegally. It is the illegal actions were resent, not your ethnic group.

    People from other ethnic groups and races come here illegally also, but not in such numbers. And most Hispanic's are white also.

    I have Latino family, we are legal, we do not fear. It is law enforcement you fear, because you know you have done wrong.

  • ardmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    I am saddened by the many comments I have read on this article. It may be an unsafe assumption, but I assume the majority of these comments come from LDS people, as that is the demographic for this paper. Shame on you for not following Christs teachings...are we not all brothers and sisters? how can you let politics and "borders" override your religious beliefs? We are taught to love our neighbor, not support racism through legislation.

    Regardless of your "political party", LDS members should take a step back and really ask what would Jesus do...maybe do some research in the scriptures about charity and the united order...and pray that we can all be equal.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:48 a.m.

    windsor, it's the Mexican government that encourages illegal immigration. And tells the people to send the money home to their families. It makes me wonder if the war on the border is just wagging the dog.

    I don't see US business moving out of there.

  • Nell Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:08 a.m.

    The law is the law. I am an immigrant myself but I came here legally. I believe in immigration, but the legal kind, not the creeping illegally over the border and expect to get away with it.

    Seasonal Migrant workers with correct papers is also a good idea, that way they are here LEGALLY.

    This business of taking away LDS missionary visas is not the way to do this. The missionaries are there legally for a period of time then they go home. Illegals come here and stay illegally.

  • Dektol Powell, OH
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    Criminals SHOULD live in fear of getting caught and prosecuted.
    Those here legally and those who became US Citizens legally are shamed by these whining criminals who think the laws should not apply to them.
    Find them, prosecute them, dump them in prison and then deport them after their prison time. Get harsh and maybe the numbers will get lower.

  • gramma b Orem, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:13 a.m.

    @ardmore. Our religion does not require us to be patsies.

  • skiutah American Fork, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:26 a.m.

    The LDS Church's 12th article of faith says "We believe in...sustaining the law." There is no way they are going to come out in support of illegal's.

    Amsterdammer - you are spot on. All good things come through some form of sacrifice and you are a good example.

    What illegal's need to accept is that they are illegal. Period! Go home...come back legally...live ever happily.

  • Jazz Bass Man Wellsville, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    So what exactly does the legal mexican community have to fear from Mr. Sandstrom's bill? Can one of these la raza members who are advocates for illegal activity explain that? Now the ILLEGAL population should be afraid, but illegals can coe in any race, ethnicity or color. These radical communists who try to play the race card need to find a new scam, because the race thing is just tired and old.

  • joelwisch Albuquerque, NM
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    a Latino activist delivered a letter to Salt Lake City's Mexican Consulate urging Mexico's president to suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until the LDS Church takes a stronger position on immigration.
    ==========================
    All over this country, the 'Latino' activists threaten. They don't attempt to show us how things will be better... they threaten. It is sad.

  • Marie12 Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:49 a.m.

    1. Read article of faith 13: Be good to all people.
    2. Most latinos in Utah are LEGAL!
    3. Do not generalize that latinos are all illegal. It is not right!
    4. Yes, we can follow the law but in a logical civilize manners, no drowning specific ethnic group.
    5. These people did not come today, they came many years ago and Why now? This is our outcome of using them to do cheap labor, now we want to get a rid of them. We need to pay our own consequences of pride, laziness and human exploitation.
    5. Mexico is a big country, 28 millions live only in Mexico city, but some of us think that the whole country live in Utah. We have very few Mexicans.
    6. Eye for eye and tooth for a tooth - What we give returns back to us. If we flame hatred; hatred would follow us. If we send love; love will follow us.
    7. Who are we to judge them? We are all children of God.

  • Dan Walters La Quinta, CA
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:50 a.m.

    "Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: Those who should get in, get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave." - Testimony of Barbara Jordan, chairwoman,U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. U.S. Rep. Barbara Jordan, (D-Texas), made the above remarks as part of her testimony to a House of Representatives subcommittee on the Judiciary, some 20 years ago.The Commission's recommendations included mandatory electronic verification of legal employment eligibility "employer sanctions can work" Jordan said. On public benefits Ms. Jordan's Commission recommended against eligibility for illegal aliens"except in most unusual circumstances.""Deportation is crucial," the Presidential Medal of Freedom award winner also advised. Ms. Jordan reflected the views of vast majority of Americans who are still waiting for equal protection under the law-justice-in their own country.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:56 a.m.

    If it is putting illegals "on the edge" that is good.

    If it is putting illegals "on the bus home" that is even better!

    "Latino leaders" who are supporting instead of condemning illegal immigration should be deported too.

  • tom_e Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    @ardmore - Please go back to Sunday School and read the Book of Mormon about foreign invaders.
    They were slaughtered - we are a lot nicer.

  • tiger1 New York, NY
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    These comments here remind me of the Pharisees in ancient times, hypocrits type of people, very religious, but unable to exercise a higher law. The LDS church certainly can have a more active role in the immigrants's plight, there are lots of families at stake here.
    During S. Kimball's tenure the undocumented were allowed into the fold, and the latinos in this country have grown tremendously, not only in UT but all over this country. Minorities may remain strong in their beliefs, but the new and prospective converts are not blind to what is going on. It is in the spanish networks, day and night. This bill does not give a good image to good state of UT.

  • Speak English - USA West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    I am tired of hearing about the Utah Compact. It has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
    1. Federal Solutions - the feds are not doing anything, that is why we have to act now!
    2. Law enforcement - you can't choose which laws are more important than others..... they are all laws!
    3. Families - I agree, do not separate families of legal immigrants. But if you are here illegally, you have no say.
    4. Economy - we are a welcoming state, just make sure you do it legally when you come here!
    5. Free society - Yes, immigrants are blended in our society, and they will continue to be a part of Utah. However, this is about ILLEGAL immigrants.

    The whole compact is a joke, it is cleverly worded to preach to immigration. That is jim dandy! But this issue is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION folks!

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:26 a.m.

    Legal immigrants have no need to be on edge. Thank you for respecting this country and our laws.

    Illegal "immigrants" need to be on edge, just like any other criminal that breaks the law. Obviously they know they're doing something wrong, if they're on edge. It's not like they unkowingly paid their coyote money to smuggle them across illegaly, thinking that is normal and okay.

    If latinos want to know how it feels, then we need to start taxing residents in latin countries to cover the cost of their people that enter this nation.

    Next time there is a disaster we'll hold back aid. Because we are just hateful people anyway. No reason to help them.

    Marie- The people signing the petition are latin and are sending to the Mexican console. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean illegal Sudan refugees are signing it.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Show me where it says that people should steal (jobs) lie (stolen ID, I-9's) covet (wanting others citizenship).

    It's much easier to chastise than to argue the issues.

    Some Hispanic's are not giving a good image to the world of our (Hispanic) culture. Walk in righteousness, and counsel others to do the same. We are responsible for this mess, and we hurt others by encouraging them to break the commandments and come here illegally.

    The Spanish networks are not for the legal and honest, but the criminals and those looking to follow in their steps.

  • riverdayz Salt Lake County, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    @ardmore
    Last November the church made a statement saying "We respect a government's rights to enforce it's laws and secure it's borders" (I tried to post the link as a reference but KSL blocks links)
    That is not supporting illegal immigration as you are trying to claim. The church teaches to obey the laws of the land. I believe illegal immigration is against the law of this land.
    That is what this is about,living in the country illegally! Quit trying to be holier than everyone else, that is against your religion...in case you forgot! And quit trying to bring religion into it,vas it is an irrelevant argument.

  • gramma b Orem, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    Latinos have sneaked in in larger numbers than other groups. They now attempt to use that fact as a defense, claiming that any attempt to rid the country of illegals is "racism," and crying about the impact on "families." It reminds you of the old story about the man that murdered his parents, then begged the court's mercy because he was an orphan.

  • one day... South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:52 a.m.

    Most of the people here said that is not about race, but at the same time you talk about the latinos taking your jobs, getting benefits, making the economy worsed...the latinos makes the us worsed and all that bla, bla, bla...
    I know it sounds bad, but all of you sound like the germans against the jews, the right word nazis. they were thinking the same thing! the only thing that is missing for the latinos is to start wearing the david's star on their shoulders.
    For this reason the US will fall more and more on this hole...

  • lawenforcementfromAZ Glendale, AZ
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    It's so sad to see how our nation is being torn asunder. As a retired law enforcement official, I am appalled at how many try and defend and even encourage the breaking of our laws! Please, try and truly understand the issues:

    1.Mexicans and So Americans are not the only ones coming accross our borders: we know that people from nations that are hostile to the US come accross illegally every day.
    2. Only 20% or less of those coming accross the border are caught; the rest get through; that can total over a million a year.
    3. Mexico encourages illegal immigration as money sent to Mexico is their second highest source of funds next to oil.
    4. Lastly, it's about politics anc money.

  • ardmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    To those who have responded to my original post with responses of the 12th Article of Faith. First, know the history that was written in, a response by Joseph Smith, showing that the church is not trying to be a threat against the Nation when there was concern over that.

    Additionally, what about members of the church in other countries with evil dictators? are they supposed to just fall in line? those members in Germany during Hitler's regime, were they supposed to as the government said? We support and follow JUST laws, those that are congruent with the gospel.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Dan Walters @ 8:50 am has a fine comment.
    When you review the commissions studying the problem over the years (1981, 1994, 1997 and the 9/11 Commission) you have the same song:
    -Border security
    -Better employee verification
    -Visa control
    -Deportation
    -Cooperation between local and federal agencies

    But it isn't PC to carry out the recommendations. Votes and campaign money always get in the way.
    This is clearly too big a problem for government, sort of like slavery. And that didn't end well, did it?

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    @one day...,

    Some of us Hispanic, and we know we comprise the largest group by far, also we are the most vocal. Most important is that the article is referencing a person asking Mexico to react to Utah laws. That might be why people are commenting about Latinos.

  • John C. C. Payson, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:28 a.m.

    Thanks, ardmore, for reminding us that there is more than one law at issue here. If they are not compatible we must change one of them. I am surprised at how many wish to change the law of God.

    If any of you support LEGAL IMMIGRATION then consider streamlining and enlarging the visa process. With cruelly strict quotas and red tape, we turn our backs on our neighbors--refugees from poverty, crime, and corruption, including the ones NOW WAITING FOR LEGAL ENTRY.

    Support legal immigration, or at least temporary work visas. New workers stimulate our economy, create more jobs than they fill, and pay more taxes than the undocumented (who already pay a lot of them).

    Waiting for some improbable, theoretical, and constantly moving target of "secure borders" equals indefinite delay of needed reform. Our ballooning border security budget should focus on drugs, gun smuggling, and anti-terrorism. We don't need protection from workers. Picture in your minds thousands of poor, ethical workers, wishing to help dig us out of recession, wasting away as we turn our backs on them.

    Who is your neighbor? Make our law compatible with God's law and we grow together.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    AW Dang! I can't imagine why illegal aliens are nervous. If I was a fugitive from the law I am certain that I would not be nervous at all. I certainly could sleep at night.

    NOT!

    Get real.

  • klangton Akiachak, AK
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:39 a.m.

    Dear @ardmore,
    It is disappointing that this sentiment exists alongside a very religious population. That someone would respond that "Christ was not a patsy" causes one to question where some get their perspective of who Christ was or what he stood for. Does loving all men make you a patsy? I cannot imagine him advocating to keep good people out of our country or kicking out good people that are here. It is impossible to justify the attitudes many have with the teachings of Jesus.

  • owlmaster2 Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    I hope that the white illegals from Canada, Great Britain, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand that have made their way to Utah for a church are all caught and sent packing.
    I know of some and I can guarantee you I'll report them immediately after any immigration passes.
    If it's good for one, it's good for all.

  • L Central Utah, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:46 a.m.

    "Meantime, a Latino activist delivered a letter to Salt Lake City's Mexican Consulate urging Mexico's president to suspend the visas of Mormon missionaries until the LDS Church takes a stronger position on immigration."

    I hope the President of Mexico is smarter than that. The missionaries are there temporarily and legally. They will be released to go home at the end of their mission.

    Those who are hear legally despite the color of their skin, if they are good and honest citizens, are welcome by me.

    On the other hand those who are here illegally, regardless of color or national orgin is a law breaker and should be dealt with for his crime. I don't care if he is a white man from France or someone who is tan from Mexico.

    While it may seem to some this is "anti-Mexican" it could be because there are many more from there who have broken the immigration laws than those from France. It is them that have caused the proble, not me, and not the LDS Church.

    Again I think there ideas (about blackmail & missionaries) will do more harm than good ! He should send another message canceling the idea.

  • Alfred SLC, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    "...Rep Chris Herrod would suspend the business licenses of companies with five employees or more that hire illegal immigrants. But the committee amended it to companies with 15 or more workers."

    Is this a joke?!! I would guess that over three quarters of illegals who have jobs in Utah (or, for that matter the US) are hired by companies who have 15 or less workers.

    The fact of the matter is no illegals should have jobs in America... that's according to federal law. And, also according to federal law, a person cannot harbor an illegal.

    We need enforcement of E-verify. We need to challenge all illegals and turn them over to ICE for deportation. We need illegals to go home and stop taking Americans' jobs. We have about 15 million unemployed Americans sucking up billions in unemployment benefits... billions we don't have and must borrow. We need the approximately 10 to 15 million illegals to go home and free up those jobs for the American worker.

    Any legislation that allows illegals to stay here and not be deported is amnesty. In which case we may as well hand out citizenship papers at the border.

  • ardmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    @alfred

    "any legislation that allows illegals to stay here and not be deported is amnesty. In which case we may as well hand out citizenship papers at the border."

    What would be wrong with that? If they opened the borders, would you still have a problem with immigration?

  • Miss Piggie SLC, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:23 a.m.

    @ardmore 7:38 a.m.: "LDS members should take a step back and really ask what would Jesus do..."

    What Jesus would do? I'll tell you what Jesus did... he drove violators out of the temple... with a whip. That's what Jesus did.

    ------------

    @Nell 8:08 a.m.: "Seasonal Migrant workers with correct papers is also a good idea, that way they are here LEGALLY."

    Not a good solution because fully 40 percent of those who come with work/student visas actually overstay their visas... the forget to go home when their visas expire.

    --------------

    @Dektol 8:10 a.m.: "Get harsh and maybe the numbers will get lower."

    Getting harsh is the only way to discourage illegal immigration. If we don't make it undesirable to come here they will continue to come. Anything short of deportation is amnesty.

    -------------

    @Marie12 8:49 a.m.: "This is our outcome of using them to do cheap labor..."

    Labor is cheap because illegals come here and drive wages down so low that Americans can't afford to take the jobs. They can make more on unemployment benefits.

  • ardmore Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    @ Miss Piggie -so you are comparing those who defiled a sacred temple with those who jump a border for a better life. Sorry, but I don't think that is a fair comparison...

  • Neanderthal SLC, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:41 a.m.

    @John C. C.:

    "If any of you support LEGAL IMMIGRATION then consider streamlining and enlarging the visa process."

    Visas are part of the problem... Those who come here legally on visas forget to go home after their visas expire. At which point they become illegal.

    "With cruelly strict quotas and red tape, we turn our backs on our neighbors--refugees from poverty..."

    We have our own poverty. We currently have 15 million unemployed who will soon run out of unemployment benefits. Then they will be in poverty.

    "Picture in your minds thousands of poor, ethical workers, wishing to help dig us out of recession, wasting away as we turn our backs on them."

    We don't need help digging out of our recession. What we need is for illegals to go home so that our own unemployed can get back to work and get our economy going again.

    "Who is your neighbor?"

    But we don't want our neighbor to the south to be in our laps.

    "Make our law compatible with God's law and we grow together."

    Go to YouTube 'Immigration Gumballs' to see why we don't need any more immigrants.

  • OLD-GUY Central Utah, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    @"I am saddened by the many comments I have read on this article. It may be an unsafe assumption, but I assume the majority of these comments come from LDS people, as that is the demographic for this paper. Shame on you for not following Christs teachings...are we not all brothers and sisters? how can you let politics and "borders" override your religious beliefs? We are taught to love our neighbor, not support racism through legislation.

    Regardless of your "political party", LDS members should take a step back and really ask what would Jesus do...maybe do some research in the scriptures about charity and the united order...and pray that we can all be equal."...

    If I understand you. You are saying I should love my neighbor even though he is a criminal. I should hatr the crime & not the person. So I love him BUT I feel he should be punished for his crimes. It doesn't matter if it is blocking my drive with too many cars or entering the country illegally. It has nothing to do with race, religion, or national origin. If I comit crimes, I expect to be punished!

  • C. Darwin Sandy, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    Did I just read what I thought I read??? Mike Picardi called 70-80% of Utahns racist??? Picardi, you have just turned my resolve against illegal aliens into steel. Never have I been insulted like this.. Whenever the losing minority can't come up with a superior argument they resort to the racist card. This is what the majority of Utahn's want, legislators better pay attention and pass the toughest illegal alien legislation in the nation.

  • MurrayGuy Murray, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 11:52 a.m.

    @ ardmore, I think Christ said it best when he said render that which is Ceasars unto Ceasar, he was advocating the rule of law along with the rule of God, also those of the LDS faith believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and SUSTAINING THE LAW. Hate is wrong certainly, wanting our laws and our rights upheld by those elected by the will of the Citizen's of the United States is not.

  • JanSan Pocatello, ID
    Feb. 15, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    re: ardmore @ 7:38
    Your comment made me burn!
    "follow Christ teachings" how about "Render unto Ceasers what is Ceacer's" Do you really need this explained to you???? And YES he did say that.

    What about the Article of Faith telling us to "honor and sustain the law".. I guess in your oponion that only applies to leagal citizens.

    You say that we should love everyone... why does that ONLY apply to us?? Is is LOVE to come into our country 1lleagely? Is it love to mock our flag, to tell our children that they cannot wear shirts with flags on it to school because it hurt Mexican kids feelings? Is it love to drain our resorces so we cannot take care of the aged and children? Is it love that hospitals are closing because the Mexican illeagals don't pay their depts? The list can go on and on... Why is that it is all right for them to trounce all over us and our country ... but we must only show love and forgiveness... how long has it been sence you read the Old Testement??? Maybe if you want future understanding you should start there!

  • mammalou Somewhere in the USA, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    admore you are scaring me......now you think you can speak as to the "real" meaning behind the article of faith.....I think we had all better pray for you. You may issues bigger than "immigration".

  • DixieAggie St.George, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 12:44 p.m.

    Deportation is costly and unrealistic. Illegal immigration is a problem, but the focus is always on the Mexicans. What about the Canadians? Yes, there are illegal Canadians who look and speak (mostly) exactly like white Americans. They are overlooked. Mexicans are an easy target for the fear which the Great Recession has cast over the eyes of all America's citizens.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Feb. 15, 2011 12:55 p.m.

    The Church has never claimed that the 12th Article of faith is grounds for penalizing those who have crossed borders without full authorization.

    Undocumented immigrants are allowed to hold callings, recieve temple reccomends and so on. Many people here need to read counsel against steadying the ark and remember that it is not their place to counsel the brethren or attempt to speak for the Church.

    The Church clearly stated that making it possible for working parents to live with their children needs to be a goal in our legislation. The comparison of a woman who flees Guatemala to avoid being raped by the death squads that were auxiliaries to the US backed regime and a murderer is just sickening.

    The Helmuth Hubener example is also worth considering. Hubner is held up as a hero for standing up to the Nazis, but he broke the law. Thus claiming "I support the law" is not legit. This is especially clear when the question at hand is what the law should be. Trying to earn a living is not a crime.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 1:15 p.m.

    If one closely examines the Church's response to the incredibly Machiavellian Utah Compact, he or she will realize that the Church actually does a very wise thing: it endorses the message that the Utah Compact PRETENDS to advocate, one of tolerance of LEGAL immigration, but rejects the actual, CLOAKED message of the Compact, namely tolerance of ILLEGAL immigration.

    The authors of the Utah Compact know that the discussion at hand necessarily requires making a distinction between legal and illegal immigration, since as they also know perfectly well, the topic of discussion is NOT legal immigration, but ILLEGAL immigration.

    But the authors of the Utah Compact very cunningly and deliberately refuse to do so. Instead it seeks to convince the people that there is no moral, legal, nor Constitutional difference between legal and illegal immigration.

  • Janell Ventura, Ca
    Feb. 15, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    I think we are losing sight of what is important in this story. The article said that Harrods bill had the language changed from "shall" to "may" enforce the law! And it was the same with Sandstrom's bill.
    Folks, they just gutted those bills.
    Isn't allowing law enforcement to look the other way when it suits them how we ended up with all these illegal aliens?
    If we want to really make a change, we need to find out who else is on these Committees and make it CRYSTAL CLEAR how we feel about allowing law enforcement to turn a blind eye to illegals while we (the tax payers) have to foot the bill AND have our wages driven down.
    Can someone find out who is on these Committees and post it, along with contact information.
    WE NEED TO ACT. NOW.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 2:00 p.m.

    If the Illegals are nervous...GOOD...the leges is already working~

  • JanSan Pocatello, ID
    Feb. 15, 2011 2:22 p.m.

    I just spent a little while reading in the scriptures about stuff relating to this. In an above comment I quoted the famous "render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's (Matt. 22:21) was intrested to note that it is also in the D&C 63:26. I found in all the scriptures both ancient and modern that there are indeed scripture telling us to obey the law of the land.

    I know that the Lord has told us that we need to be compassionate and loving to our brothers (and sister's) But, He has also told us to "love the sinner and not the sin" Therefore, I see no problem in fighting for my citizen rights against those that I feel and putting them to risk (remember the Title of Liberty BofM). No matter how you cut it these people have been and continue to break the laws of this country. I can love them, I can feel for the woes that brought them to this action. But I can also fight for what I believe is right. I am NOT a bad person or a bad LDS for feeling as I do.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 5:11 p.m.

    Sanctimonious exhortations by the Sandstrom crowd that exploit the law to justify the unseemly mistreatment of others strike me as woefully out of focus.

    Implicit in the Sandstrom campaign are a lack of empathy for others, a paranoia expressed as a need to protect oneself at all costs in a world viewed as hostile and threatening, a blurring of the distinction between fantasy and objective reality, an unawareness of the meaning of deception and a certain shamelessness. Not by chance are these qualities also attributes of an Egocentric consciousness noted at the maturation level of a ten-year-old child. In adults they appear as arrested development, often tied to cultural factors.

    Sandstrom's punitive plan to purge our society of all undocumented foreign "devils" is counterproductive in every way to jointly resolving our immigration problems while meeting our immigration needs. Far better suited to the task is a more maturely inclusive and honestly informed approach firmly set on the principles of compassion.

  • danaslc Kearns, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    So they are threatened and the death threats start. Today they are trying to pass a guest worker program in Utah. Time to get on the phones and call your representatives. A guest worker program is against the Constitution and these legislatures know this but they don't care.

  • orcaone Lehi, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 6:10 p.m.

    Time after time our law makers announce they are going to do something about illegal immigrants and time after time they fold or compromise. How about our law makers actually represent all the legal citizens of Utah and not just special interests. Read, business/illegal immigrants. If they can't or won't pass laws that will be inforced we need to rid
    ourselves of these so called law makers in the next election

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 6:22 p.m.

    Although not always recognized, compassion is the core concept of virtually every major religion.

    When a jewish rabbi known for his mastery of Torah was challenged to enunciate the law, he responded simply by saying, in effect, not to do anything to your enemy that you would not want done to yourself. All else, he said, was commentary.

  • Alfred SLC, Utah
    Feb. 15, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    @ardmore: "If they opened the borders, would you still have a problem with immigration?"

    Yes. Foreigners would pour in, competing with Americans' for jobs and drive wages down. With that and other factors, we would rapidly become a third world nation.

    See YouTube's 'Immigration Gumballs' for details.

  • eddiec Orem, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 8:07 p.m.

    Amsterdammer I understand were you are coming from I am a hispanc that has been here since 1966, sometimes we think that the rest of the people nned to go threw what we went threw to make it fare but the fact is that there are over 12 million hispanics here that might be a reason why some places are thinking of having signs and other things in spanish, I am sure that there are signs in english in your native Holland and it is because it is the universal language. Well spanish is the second so why don't we just think about solutions and not just complain. Yes all hispanics should try to learn english so they can comunicate with others but I think that as long as they do not comit crime and are just working hard we should try to help and find solutions. Thanks

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Feb. 15, 2011 10:43 p.m.

    riverdayz: This article is about taking visas away from LDS missionaries (that makes it religious) because the government of Utah wants people to immigrate legally.

  • crackerjack Provo, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 6:56 a.m.

    @dixieAggie Eisenhower and Truman both rounded up illegals and sent them home by the thousands it is doable and we should be doing it! NOW!

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 16, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    To honestly cite the 12th Article of Faith of the LDS church as divine sanction for the unconditional purging from our country of 12 million or so undocumented human beings is to me shocking.

    If such thinking is truly typical of the level of LDS theology (and I hope it's not), I would question the value of LDS missionaries anywhere.

  • RichardB Murray, UT
    Feb. 17, 2011 7:28 a.m.

    Why can't they accept our laws? Why is everything such a drama?

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Feb. 19, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    mammalou: The meaning of the 12th Article of Faith is very clear.

    Ajax: The Articles of Faith are for everyone. The illegals don't need to be here taking jobs ss benefits or any benefits for that matter from American citizens.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    Feb. 24, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    danaslc: being here illegally is against the law but the illegals don't care.