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4 Layton Walmart employees fired after disarming gunman caught shoplifting

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  • RRB SLC, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:09 p.m.

    If Walmart can't judge this on circumstances, then they lose my business. As a customer in the same position, I hope there are people around like these men who judge the situation correctly.

    These are security people, correct? Does Walmart have that little faith in their training procedures?

  • lib1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:13 p.m.

    Very sorry to hear this. Courage, loyalty and quick thinking are at a premium nowdays - I'm sure these men will find better jobs in the near future.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:21 p.m.

    I am a big supporter of Walmart, but this is outrageous!

    Being fired for acting in self defense is totally unacceptable.

    I hope they get a really vicious wrongful termination attorney to sue Walmart for millions.

    I salute these brave employees for their heroic and instantaneous response to a life threatening situation which successfully prevented a criminal from killing any of them, or getting away. (The latter clearly a secondary benefit from their primary action.)

    To the Walmart big wigs who fired them at leisure based on "policy" and not a careful review of the actual situation as it unfolded in mere minutes- you just lost this customer. I don't want to shop where employees are mistreated.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:22 p.m.

    Walmart is crazy. THEIR employees were at risk. This is the idiotic type of policy that makes one wonder how Walmart remains in business. I hope these four find work at a place that does care for their employees. Each should be given a medal.

  • scambuster American Fork, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:30 p.m.

    Perhaps it is time to boycott Walmart until they re-instate these employees to their former positions. If Wal-mart is worried about money (lawsuits) then hurt them in the wallet by not shopping there.

  • geezergary Salem, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:36 p.m.

    I think a Walmart boycott would be in order.

  • happytobehere Alpine, Utah
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:38 p.m.

    I really believe defending one's life trumps company policy. What idiocy on the part of Walmart. I will be writing their corporate office next...

  • MiddleRight Orem, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:40 p.m.

    Walmart has Green lighted the criminal to to do anything they want.

    I will stop going to Walmart until they dig their head out. This is ridiculous.

    Walmart has been making a lot of stupid mistakes lately.

  • grj Bountiful, ut
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:46 p.m.

    No further reason to ever go to Wal Mart again. It's been borderline for me for a while, but their callous disregard for these dedicated employees has cost them my business.

  • happytobehere Alpine, Utah
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:48 p.m.

    Just got done writing to corporate on their website.

    I will be contacting the regional supervisor next.

    I encourage you to do the same.

  • Walkerwg Duncan, OK
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:52 p.m.

    The Walmart Execs are exhibiting typical liberal stupidity, demanding irrational passivity. When your life is on the line, the minutia in some irrelevant policy manual is the last thing you are going to be concerned about. Get real Wal-mart!

  • Monsieur le prof Sandy, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 10:53 p.m.

    Policies are general recommendations that hold true for a majority of instances. They protect both the customers and the employees. But they are not iron-clad laws of the universe. It appears that some close-minded underlings are afraid to analyze the situation and make a logical decision. Sam Walton is probably rolling over in his grave.

    I hope they reconsider and hire these men back. Until then, I'll do my shopping elsewhere, where they treat their workers with respect.

  • attentive Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:06 p.m.

    Lori, Justin, Shawn and Gabriel are all too cool for Wal-Mart anyway. I'm glad they did what they did to save their own lives and I wish I were in a position to hire each and every one of them for a top supervisory or CEO position. They've got what it takes to improve any company that employs any of them.

  • Ralph1 Ogden, Ut
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:16 p.m.

    I just wrote corporate too, just like Happytobehere did. I let them know my thoughts on this matter. One thing I know, and that is corporate takes their comments seriously and they do read them. I just hope they listen to them and the messages inside of them.

  • jazzlover Highland, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:20 p.m.

    This is absolutely absurd. There was no justification in Walmart firing them when their own employees lives were on the line. Get real!

  • dave31 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:23 p.m.

    Perhaps these heroic people should have received a "slap on the wrist" for running afoul of the policy in the company handbook. They then should have received a commendation for the brave action they took in preserving life and property. I also will no longer be shopping at WalMart until I hear that this injustice has been rectified.

  • Legal? Saint George, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:30 p.m.

    Walmart's actions are unbelievable!

  • beetdiggingcougar Provo, UT
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:39 p.m.

    I wrote them as well. Click on "Contact Us" on the bottom right corner of their website and make your voices heard!

  • Brian Wasilla, AK
    Feb. 9, 2011 11:54 p.m.

    I feel so much safer knowing that if gunmen are wandering around my local WalMart that their security people will not bother them.

  • newhor1zons Riverton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:05 a.m.

    So WalMart would have fired the people who tackled the gunman in Phoenix who shot the Congresswoman??? I hope these people win a huge award so that they can live a lifestyle that does not include shopping at WalMart. Their actions were at least self-preserving and at most heroic. This means that WalMart is the exact opposite of heroic.

  • Scott1 Draper, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:41 a.m.

    No, please don't write to WalMart. Let them fall on their own sword. They have stepped on way too many people on their way to the world's largest retailer.

    Their years-long PR campaign is hilarious. Have you ever seen a company spend so much money on promoting what a fair organization they are? Their advertisements say one thing while their actions frequently say something else. They are a wolf in sheep's clothing that has a long record of treating their employees poorly. Sure, give a $1,000 to a local school or $5,000 to save the Sugarhouse fireworks, all while stepping on employees and small businesses. Nevermind their frivolous firings of long-time employees getting close to collecting a pension.

    Walmart is a crock.

  • Middle of the Road Home Town USA, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:46 a.m.

    Duh, This policy they have really refers to NON-Security personnel, right? If these employees are given the charge to protect the rest of them, then the "policy" does not apply to Security employees. It's a fine line to draw here, and I agree that Walmart is out of line in the firing of these brave and courageous employees.

    It says that it is okay (instead) to risk lives for a shoot-out waiting to happen. It is obvious and a no brainer that the number of employees there to help keep the thief at bay was the "safety" to help them execute a successful result and have the police take over. It was a split decision and it worked.

    It is too bad that these employees were terminated for their heroic efforts. I think the rule should not apply to the security personnel and should be judged by each case and instance.

    No blanket rule should apply in the way it all prevented another "Trolley Square" massacre.

    If Walmart is willing to make these employees take all the risk then fire them, something wrong here. And I don't need to shop there either.

  • TaipeiModerate New Haven, CT
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:54 a.m.

    Not defending Walmart's actions, but their policies exist because of the effect of current tort law.

    They will fire anyone that violates them because they have already run a cost-benefit analysis and believe that they will lose more money from lawsuits for wrongful detention of mistaken-shoplifters and employees actions which escalate gunman-type situations leading to deaths and injury.

    They know that a few people will get mad when four men are unfairly dismissed, but these strict policies will deter future "heroes" from getting in the way of thugs and costing the company more money.

    You'll all still go to Walmart to buy cheaper stuff.

  • HaroldTheCat Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 3:32 a.m.

    The president of the United States gave Sam Walton an award some years ago. I would love to see the president of the United States give an award to each of these people.

    Time to get the picket signs out. Perhaps if enough picketing goes on, Walmart will re-hire these people, give them a sizable bonus and reform their policies to include common sense and reasonableness.

    It seems when I shop at Walmart some of their employees act like robots. I will no longer shop at Walmart.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:28 a.m.

    I am pro Walmart, but they are making a very serious mistake here. They are very stupidly confusing protecting merchandise with defending one's very LIFE!

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:27 a.m.

    I wrote to corporate, my local store, and the Layton store expressing my displeasure with the handling of this case and letting them know that I would be shifting my purchases to their competition pending a review of the case. Walmart has been losing market share to Target, the Dollar Store, and others this year. So, an additional drop in sales for Utah stores should catch their attention.

    I think we as consumers have more power than we think. If sales at our local Walmart stores dropped 10% this week, I guarantee that store managers would be on the phone with the Layton Walmart manager as well as corporate to get this thing resolved.

    The other thing to do would be to use social media to make this thing go viral. Post the story to your Facebook page.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:28 a.m.

    Well, that about wraps it for me.

    Wal-Mart, don't expect my business until you reverse this clear injustice.

  • SittingReading Sandy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:28 a.m.

    Sadly i understand where Walmart comes from in this situation. Although those four did the right thing morally, the bigger problem occurs when a group who tries to do it fails. Walmart needs to maintain consistency.

    It doesn't make it a good thing, it just makes it the way it has to be. Would you suggest that we try criminals different based on what their reasoning is? If a man steals a laptop because he needs money for his family, does that suddenly make it okay?

    If they had failed to subdue him, such as his finger was to tightly held to the trigger, how many would have died? If they hadn't fired them, and other employees found out, what happens when the next person decides they can disarm a robber and send the man on a shooting spree?

    Considering that Walmart waited an entire week to fire them, i think that they actually did consider letting the situation slide, but decided they had to maintain a consistent approach. They were all LP associates and knew the rules. It is unfortunate and i hope they get new jobs, but there it is.

  • patriotandmore Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:38 a.m.

    Another reason I won't shop at Walmart.

  • Chickenchaser Centralia, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:02 a.m.

    If indeed the criminal did say "Don't make me do this . . .let me go . . ." perhaps these heroic chaps should have been fired. But how many killings have taken place at Wal Mart stores? If the bandit had been released to the street there is a good chance there could have been a killing. A thirteen year old girl from South Salt Lake was killed in Port Orchard, Washington along with a so-called accomplice three weeks ago. Tie these loose ends together and reason dictates that Wal Mart is faced with tough choices. Methinks they made the wrong one this time. After all if they reported the incident to police and a chase ensued the outcome could have been more deadly for more innocents.

  • mountain man Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:05 a.m.

    I've always been a big fan of walmart. However, this story makes me think twice about shopping there. What other stores would have fired these employees.

  • fanUVU Orem, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:17 a.m.

    Assuming the news article reported the facts accurately, I cannot go to WalMart now, knowing that they restrain their security people from protecting even themselves and allowing violent crimes to be committed. I do not feel safe. There are other good discount stores out there. So long WalMart.

  • Max Syracuse, NY
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:19 a.m.

    So at Walmart if someone pulls out a gun you are just supposed to stand there and let him shoot you? If you try to protect yourself you get fired? There are too many dead people who tried that. These guys are heros for not letting this man out into the store where he could have taken hostages when he saw the police outside waiting for him. I am amazed at Walmart's lack of judgement here. I will certainly think twice before shopping there again. With a policy like that, I have to wonder if I am really going to be safe there. Who knows how many lives they saved by their quick thinking. I would hire these men in a minute if I were in a position to do so. I hope they find good jobs quickly. They certainly deserve it.

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:22 a.m.

    I wrote to Walmart too. And, I will stop shopping there until further review of the case.

  • RSD Pepperell, MA
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:24 a.m.

    What a shame these good people wasted so many years of their lives with a company like WalMart. A company that doesn't care about it's employees certainly doesn't care about it's customers, so it won't miss me.

  • Paul in MD Montgomery Village, MD
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    This is the kind of blind adherence to rules and policy with no regard for circumstances and common sense that leads to children being suspended and expelled for bringing toenail clippers to school (and yes, that has happened).

    As someone else pointed out, corporate policies are guidelines to give decision makers a road map, but if they don't look at the individual situations they become mindless automatons who aren't worth the paper their paychecks are printed on.

    WalMart's lost my business for the time being, and I have tons of choices here in Maryland. In the same shopping center as our local WalMart we have Target, Kohl's, Marshall's, Home Depot, Best Buy, Boarder's, Michael's (craft store), Giant Food, Blockbuster (for now...), and a whole host of smaller stores and restaurants. Frankly, our WalMart is so disorganized and crowded (before people even walk in) that I rarely go there anymore anyhow. It just isn't worth the tension it gives me.

    With this incident on top of all that, I've got no reason to set foot in WalMart at all.

  • Hanksboy Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:41 a.m.

    Walmart has lost my business unless/until it corrects this huge miscarriage of its brand of justice. Businesses must have policies and procedures but I've never seen a successful business that did not build in some flexibility. A thanks with a reminder of policies would have been appropriate here. Recent news reports say Walmart is already losing customers; things like this will hasten its demise.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:42 a.m.

    Policy is much more important to Wal-Mart than people have ever been. Wal-Mart doesn't look at the situation and take the appropriate action. They never have since Mr. Walton passed away. In this case, even though the employees know the store policy on shoplifting, that policy didn't apply in this situation as they were not in the typical shoplifting environment. The employees were complying with the policy in the office, with witnesses when this identified shoplifter pulled a gun. Wal-Mart never thought about this situation when they wrote their policy, 4 employees in a room with a shut door and a man with a gun not having the item he was in the process of stealing. How were the employees going to comply with the policy when what was happening wasn't part of the Wal-Mart procedure? Wal-Mart doesn't think of their employees but have the appearance with a boiler-plate policy they have no matter what the situation. Wal-Mart has a lot of great employees but those employees work for not a great employer.

  • All Knowing Spring City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:43 a.m.

    WalMart -- GET REAL!!! Your actions only promote this kind of lawlessness. Protect your employees and customers, yeah right. How many customers would have been protected at Trolley Square if a gunman would have been allowed to continue unchallenged. Sadly, in today's world anyone needs to be able to protect themselves and in WalMart's case here, their employees (especially asset management personel) have the responsibility of protecting their customers. Police cannot be expected to be at all places at all times (that would mean an extreme police state which violates everyone's rights) and our ultimate safety depends on ourselves and other responsible citizens with whom we are in public contact with.

  • David B. Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:55 a.m.

    If these people released the subject per compnay policy they would be dead period! These people did the right thing in this instance.They took away a weapon away from an unstable man saying if you let me go I won' do anything. As a retired police officer once you make that decision to disarm the subject you've got to do it with vigor and enough people.Otherwise known as a swarm technigue.I commend these people for their swift action and judgement! They did save lives!

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:58 a.m.

    Walmart needs situational responses to violations of their rules. It sounds like a shoplifter can grab something and unless the cops stop them, it's a race for the door. Under this scenario, there is no need for security, just spotters. This is an example of poor management practices. And isn't it great having so many guns out there, ready to be used when someone gets annoyed over anything? Unfettered gun practices is going to lead to a lot of problems. It is backwards and, frankly, barbaric.

  • billybubba South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:01 a.m.

    This is also policy at Home Depot. In training we were told not to even follow or confront would be shop lifters because it could put the employee and the store in a bad situation. I did not agree with this at all. But congrats to these 4 employees for doing the right thing.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:02 a.m.

    This is another perfect example of what is wrong with our little politically correct society.

    Once again it is the victims fault, that this nut job shoplifted, it's their fault that he carried a firearm, it's their fault that they were in his way, it's their fault for protecting themselves.

    I bet Wal-Mart offers this shoplifter gift cards and a written apology for his inconvenience.

    As a consumer, I demand that Wal-Mart re-instate these employess and compensate them for the time off and give them gift cards and a written apology.

    I'm not worried about the criminal.

  • Craig Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:05 a.m.

    Criminals know that stores have a policy of letting them go if they produce a weapon. We all pay because of the higher prices past on to us to cover their losses. I hope somebody will employ these people as they show the kind of character that makes a great employee. Stores need to send a message that shoplifting is unacceptable and will be met with the strongest resistance.

  • musiqmike Brigham City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:21 a.m.

    I couldn't say it any better than those who have already posted. Just want to add my support for the former employees and the life-or-death decision they made. Gee, I wonder how any of the Walmart big-wigs would have handled a similar situation? They'd either have to fire themselves or, most likely, they'd have to have their "soiled" clothing professionally cleaned after letting the gunman get away.

  • Walt Nicholes Orem, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:21 a.m.

    Now I face a big decision. Walmart has openly declared that if a gunman comes into the store he rules the store until police arrive. This I can't accept.

    My choices: 1) Get a concealed carry permit and arm myself whenever I enter Walmart. 2) Stop entering Walmart.

    A quick check of my records show that I spend between $8000 and $10000 every year at Walmart. I used to tell salesmen that if I couldn't get it at Walmart I didn't need it. Groceries, clothes, electronics (3 big screen TVs,) gardening, automotive, and etc.

    Walmart, you need to reverse this policy. You just made your stores MUCH less safe.

    (I mean, why did that guy think he could shoplift Walmart with a gun in the first place? Walmart's misguided policy, that's why.)

  • Name Already Used Fort Duchesne, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:23 a.m.

    I just sent my opinion about the firing to the Walmart Web site. I gave them my disdain concerning concerning their "McCookie" cutter policy. I also requested that they not reply with a "McCanned" response. Perhaps the women that fired them would have felt differently, had the gun been pressed into her back.

  • Florien Wineriter Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:26 a.m.

    The Walmart supervisors displayed the incompresensable consequences when rules and regulaions over ride good sense and wisdom!

  • ephazi Bluffdale, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:30 a.m.

    Dear Walmart,

    These men are true professionals and executed their position of employement with superb conduct. I think that it would be wise to hire more gentlemen like these to protect other shoppers. In fact, they didn't have to do their jobs at all! Asset protection? What is it? Sounds like they did their job perfectly.

    V/R
    SSgt Peterson

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:39 a.m.

    A couple of years ago my brother-in-law stopped a rape in progress in the back room of the store where he works. He was stabbed in the shoulder, but he wrestled down the rapist and held him to the floor until the police got there.

    His company presented him with an award and gave him tickets to the Super Bowl. I'm sure they had similar corporate policies to Walmart, but they knew when to make an exception. He saved that woman's life.

  • bjdoc Vilnius, Lithiuania
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:39 a.m.

    I have always referred to this place as "CHINA-MART" now this proves they act like the Chinese secret police. It is time you Americans wake up and stop selling our future to China. When was the last time you found anything there not made in China with Communist Slave labor, to unfairly compete with American workers. Often you blame Obama on the economic crises. Look at whom you support, by where you shop. bjdoc living in Europe

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    Perfect. Walmart generally has employees who are missing teeth and they fire these guys who appear to have something going for them.
    I hate Walmart and do anything I can to avoid shopping there. This just makes it even less likely I'll ever go back.

  • Red Smith American Fork, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:58 a.m.

    Shop at Target.

  • TexasMom Flower Mound, TX
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    The problem here is with a "zero-tolerance" sort of policy. I understand Walmart's policy and agree with it. However, real life is rarely simple or uniform and each situation needs to be looked at on its own merits and specifics. It doesn't sound like they even took the time to fully investigate the incident which leads me to believe it was a zero-tolerance sort of thing.

    I highly doubt that once the gun was shoved into the man's back, the employees were still concerned about the laptop and doing their employee duty to protect the merchandise. There comes a point when the person in the situation has to have the decision making ability to preserve their life and the life of those around them. That should be a huge consideration.

    In the end, they did what they thought was best in that particular situation and it turned out well. Good for them. I suppose Walmart has a "right" to fire them but if I were a business owner in the area I would seek out these people and hire them!

  • Balan West Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:04 a.m.

    This is a joke - and the final straw. I will no longer spend my hard-earned dollars at Wal-Mart again.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    This is the result of firm guidelines which generally DO make sense but make no room for common sense and unusual circumstances to allow an exception.

    Thus you have children expelled from school for bringing a knife to school - even though the knife was plastic to be used in peeling an orange. Or a child expelled from school for bringing drugs on campus - even though the drugs were Tylenol because the student just had their braces tightened.

    The irony is that in the oh so recent past, two people died at a Washington Walmart. In that instance, in hindsight, it sounds like there was no violation of the Walmart policy. But a Walmart shopper died anyway.

    Circumstances. Common sense. Employees and shoppers were already at great risk. Better to have used the experience to reinforce corporate procedure and training.

  • CP Tooele, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:12 a.m.

    I just sent my comments to Walmart's Corp. Headquarters as well concerning this just as happytobethere did. I think what they did was just terrible.

  • Whos Life RU Living? Ogden, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    Here goes Wal-Mart again with their crazy conservative values!

    Why did someone blame this on Wal-Mart's liberal values?

    Why do people have to classify an action either way?

    Maybe this was just against corporate policy and the supervisors are doing what they are told?

    This should not be classified as liberal or conservative values being trampled on, but just a bad company policy that should probably change to a more case by case determination. If I owned a store I would hire those guys for security.

  • walkingdowntown Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:25 a.m.

    Let's see, their choices were to disarm him in a secure room with limited possible victims, which they did admirably, or let him out into the store where their were probably thousands of people who could have ended up victims.

    I am NOT going to shop at a Walmart again, because I don't want to end a victim due to their policies.

    These people did a good thing, I am sure there are any number of places that would love to have heroes as employees.

  • VOTAR West Valley City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:26 a.m.

    I concur: Walmart should reverse this decision, rehire these courageous people, and review its security policy.

  • scottpehrson Monticello, utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:30 a.m.

    If I lived in Layton I would be at the front of a boycott to get these people rehired....this is exactly what is needed by everyday people. Criminal types would think twice if they had to anticipate someone defending themselves very often. More of us should have concealed carry permits and use them.

  • happytobehere Alpine, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:33 a.m.

    I understand the legal risks that Walmart is under...so I have a solution:

    Fire them to avoid the possible lawsuits and to be compliant to policy,

    then REHIRE them with a HUGE raise in salary.

    Come on, Walmart, be a little creative here...its time to "Live Better"

  • bucko Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:38 a.m.

    I agree. Forget Walmart. Rules are more important than common sense and natural valiant instincts?
    Best of luck to those brave employees!!!

  • justamacguy Manti, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    Sam Walmart would roll over in his grave if he read this. Sam was a strong supporter of gun rights and the American way. You used to read "made in USA" signs all over Walmart until Sam died.

    This is a classic example of what is really wrong with America. We sanction criminals and kill our heros.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Excellent public relations move by Wal-Mart.
    I am certain that the will not mind that I just emailed this story (URL) to three major news web sites including one owned by Matt Drudge, another called hotair dot com started by Michelle Malkin and one in my area called Orbusmax.

    I really think Wal Mart needs some publicity just now. It could really help their business.

    I recommend that we all help to get the word out.

    Free publicity for WalMart, what could be better?

  • New Yorker Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    This employee error could clearly could have been handled with other, less drastic remedies. For example verbal reprimands and training. The real failure here is Wal-Mart's because whatever the previous policy statements were or whatever the prior training was, it was less-than-effective for multiple employees. Wal-Mart could fire the manager or human resource people for being less-than-effective. Maybe if we get this onto Facebook, we can make a big enough deal about it to help these people out.

  • Sunshine Girl Hurricane, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    I feel so bad for these people. I avoid Wal-mart as much as possible anyway, but this will for sure keep me away! If all the criminals did not know before, they all know now....Wal-mart is free game! Go steal all you want. I don't know who in their right mind would continue to shop there knowing that it will now be the go to place for criminals. Shop at Wal-mart and ur putting yourself in danger! Invest your hard earned money with a company that cares about their employees and their customers . Good luck to these four people. I hope a better future is around the corner for all of you!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:54 a.m.

    Wow. A lot of Wal-Mart shoppers posting here. If, in point of fact,all those claiming to be Wal-Mart shoppers (that will NEVER shop there again) really are. So, question for you: Why did you shop at Wal-mart in the first place? Probably because they have what you are looking for at cheaper prices than elsewhere. Otherwise, why would you shop there?

    So, go ahead quit going to Wal-Mart. They won't feel any impact on their bottom line. You, however, will pay more for the same items elsewhere. And, maybe you're ok with that. Yes, you're ok with increasing YOUR cost of living in order to symbolically punish Wal-Mart.

    Look--protest is ok. Write letters. Make your voice heard. Form picket lines if you like. But pay more for the same goods at another store? Especially in this economy? Please. That's calle cutting off your nose to spite y our face. It's not as if you are wealthy with money to burn. If you were, you wouldn't shop at Wal-Mart to begin with.

    You pretty much think the way that people at Wal-Mart dress.

  • hansentw San Antonio, TX
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    Walmart's new security personnel hiring process:

    Issue two coconut halves to each security person hired, so when they are threatened, they can clap them together and "runaway!"...

    Ridiculous.

    Local stores and Target will be getting my business from now on. This is just the final straw in a HUGE basket full of such straws.

  • Macaw Herriman, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    It's not safe for other employees and customers to disarm an armed man? So if they had let him go, running through the store with a gun in his hand, that would have been safer? Come on Wal-Mart. That's just crazy. These guys deserve a raise!

  • apocalypse now Woods Cross, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:05 a.m.

    I work for Loss Prevention for another retailer. We do have similar policies about how and when you can stop and detain a shoplifter. If a weapon comes out you have to let them go. However, based on the situation the employees found themselves in it sounds like their quick thinking and action adverted a catastrophic outcome.

    Walmart doesn't really want employees that are quick thinkers, or that even think. They want all decisions handed down from the top.

  • amst plano, tx
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:09 a.m.

    They did what needed to be done, if they had all been shot everyone would have asked why didn't they do anything better fired for doing whats right.

  • MaryAnn North Bend, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:11 a.m.

    WalMart just lost my business. I have seen gunmen shooting wildly inside stores as an escape method. These four men protected themselves and everyone in the store. And they probably saved this man's life from a police shooting outside the store. WalMart should be ashamed of themselves for putting liability insurance ahead of common sense and good reasoning. My business is going elsewhere and I have been a long-term customer of Walmart and defended them, up until now.

  • S Ahiwlsa Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    Go to the company website and let them know your opinion of their handling of this case. We brought success in the donation to our food pantries, we can get justice in this situation, too.

  • Sunshine Girl Hurricane, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    @ Chris B
    NEWS FLASH Wal-mart is not the only discount place in the world! People can shop lots of other places and not have to pay more!

  • kemitc Nashville, TN
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    Walmart has a history of this. These guys not only save the lives of a fellow employee, but also of customers. Walmart is nothing but an origination of thugs. Any other company would be glad to have employees like these. I stopped shopping with them years ago. They harm communities and the environment.

  • SL Rexburg, ID
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:31 a.m.

    Walmart should be ashamed and embarrassed. Boycott them, especially this particular store. Citizens in the area should picket the place.

    As Flight 93 during 9/11 showed us, we are increasingly a society in which regular citizens must step up and help enforce the law and protect others.

  • CB Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    I hope that these employees find work in a better place. I don't think that I would want to go back to WalMart. These were not just employees, they were long term workers who had sacrificed for this company, who have now been shown the kind of total lack of consideration for their time and effort. I wouldn't want to be just a name of a piece of paper, and apparently that was all Walmart employees are. Some companies consider their employees 'family'.

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:38 a.m.

    Stop Shopping Walmart!

    Here's why--

    1. Walmart policy puts (NON-police) employees in direct "personal-contact" with shoplifters. The store policy dictates they are immediately in danger.

    2. Walmart policy should be to follow and call in the shoplifter and have no contact at all. Thus providing no opportunity for ANY escalation.

    3. Walmart then does not stand behind their employees, and dumps them like trash.

    4. Had these employees done a blind follow, and even reported a car license number, there would have been no contact and no gun pulled. Walmart created this situation by their own policy.

    I no longer have need to shop at Walmart. Target or any other store will do. I shop at Walmart for home and work, but until Walmart makes it right with these amazing employees, I will NOT spend another DIME at Walmart! Promise!

    I hope the public will get behind these heros!
    CWEB, Orem, UT

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:42 a.m.

    Sunshine Girl | 9:23 a.m. Feb. 10, 2011
    Hurricane, UT
    @ Chris B
    NEWS FLASH Wal-mart is not the only discount place in the world! People can shop lots of other places and not have to pay more!

    No kidding. Then why are they shopping at Wal-Mart in the first place? Did you even read my comments? Or, are you a typical Wal-mart shopper?

  • Mountain Bird West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:47 a.m.

    No matter how thin you slice meat there's still two sides. There has got to be more to the Walmart side of the story we're not getting, because, on the surface, it looks unthinkable to fire these employees. I would have done the same thing they did. Yes, they have a policy in place, but it appears from this story that circumstances arose that didn't fit the policy's intent. Ironically, there's so many Walmart employees that don't care. Four that do, just got fired.

  • Clark Holladay, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:48 a.m.

    Here's what I sent Walmart on their corporate websight.

    I just read a newspaper article about you firing four employees for making your Layton store safer for me as a customer. They disarmed a convicted felon before he could run thru the store waiving a loaded and cocked semi-automatic pistol and before he could get in a gun battle with police in the parking lot. Your bureaucracy makes the federal buraucracy look downright sane by comparison. Since you value silly rules over sane action and my safety as a customer, I will think twice before shopping Walmart again

  • grammasmitty American Fork, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:51 a.m.

    I was a Walmart employee for a short time and discovered almost immediately that they are NOT a good employer. I left them, but have continued to shop there because the people who work for them need the jobs. But this is over the line. No one should be able to dictate that a person cannot act to protect their life when there is no other option, as seems to be the case here.
    I, too, hope they are able to take it to court for a fantastic settlement.

  • Hairy Reasoner Springville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    It sounds very noble, but I simply don't believe that all of you who have sworn off Walmart will really stop shopping there. You'll be back. I know it and Walmart knows it. You're not going to suffer for these ex-employees. Your indignation will fade and you will be back.

  • Scott1 Draper, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:02 a.m.

    @ Chris B at 8:54.

    My wife and I have not shopped at Walmart for years knowing that we pay more at Harmons. I think Harmons quality is better, but even if it were the same as Walmart, sometimes you just have to do what is right. The bottom line is not the only thing that matters; sometimes you have to look at the greater good and support businesses that treat their employees better. Walmart succeeds by bringing in shoppers that are not very familiar with their inner workings and only care about the bottom line. You may pay less at Walmart, but you pay more in taxes to support the Walmart workers that Walmart encourages to seek government assistance.

  • lsslc Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    I don't need Walmart to survive, thank you very much. I prefer Target and I hope Target reaches out and hires all four of those fired from Walmart.

    That policy is totally for Walmart's legal protection. In life threatening situations, people do not think about policy #589 section b. They act on instinct and when everything works out for the best, policies should not be used against employees.

  • DR Hall Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    To me Walmart has shown total irresponsible action. To wait until a gun man kills you before you can protect your self is totally unacceptable. And the number of illegal immigrants they hire to save money is very wrong. I think I will no longer buy any thing from Walmart. There is no safety at Walmart anymore. I agree with the rest of the of the comments.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Walkerwg said, "The Walmart Execs are exhibiting typical liberal stupidity..."

    Did you really use 'Walmart' and 'liberal' in the same sentence? Walmart is a corporation, above anything else, and their main purpose is to make money. Their otherwise ill advised policy reflects their idea that no one should do anything that someone else might interpret as being a harmful act or an act that led to someone getting hurt. Doing nothing, in their minds, is better than doing something that might be dangerous. These employees have far more courageous than the corporate lawyers that wrote this silly and stupid policy. Please do not ever try to accuse Walmart of being liberal...or liberal policy of having any resemblance to Walmart policy. You can't get any more conservative than Walmart. Conservatives can have bad ideas too, whether or not you want to accept that.

  • Magaju win Scottsbluff, neb
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    So your in a contained area, where there is no room an armed man to go. You know how to disarm him and take him down as his gun is in your face....

    With what happened in Arizona with the senator and many others harmed and killed including a child, walmart is willing to allow this to happen in their own store too. How much are you willing to lose if you work for walmart or even visit a store? Your own life including your childrens too. I think not.

    I do not want to risk my life in a walmart store knowing that those who could save the lives of many might now do nothing because they risk being fired???

  • Dee R. Darling Holladay, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:19 a.m.

    Unbelievable! Four employees responsible for the security of the store confronted a dangerous criminal in an area of the store away from the public, disarmed him and held him until the police arrived. Their actions saved a possible firefight in the shopping area of the store, an ugly shootout in the parking lot, and who knows what else, where hundreds of people would have been at great risk. So, the company fires them. Perhaps the management needs some training in how to react to situations like this. For example, instead of firing these people, the manager might have said something like, "What you did was technically against company policy, but that heaven you had the courage to do what you did."

  • BP Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:25 a.m.

    Absolutely ridiculous! I'm glad I don't shop there anymore.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    When I read this article I think of the Supervisors at Walmart who made this decision to fire them. IT reminds me that not all fruit loops come in boxes.

  • Original Carbon Copy West Valley, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    Sent to Walmart:
    I am angry after reading of the dismissal of 4 employees at your Layton store. I am proud of their actions, disgraced by yours. Would you rather have a store full of dead employees and customers?
    To paraphrase your company response- "your actions have led me to no longer be a customer of your company"

  • azgal Buckeye, AZ
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    AP09 is what needs to be fired, not these 4 heros. If they cannot act to defend their own lives, as well as those of all the remaining people in the store, especially against a person who's clearly up to no good, then WALMART is in the wrong!

  • aj6145 clearfield, ut
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:56 a.m.

    Somebody hire these guys. They're heroes!

  • aj6145 clearfield, ut
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:00 a.m.

    If police officers said they did everything right, maybe Walmart should review their policies and get in line with what police deem "everything right"

  • RagnarL4 Tupelo, MS
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:12 a.m.

    Wal-Mart is not the enemy here, folks. It's your blessed US government again.

    The government is no friend of Wal-Mart in situations like this. Employee sues, government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout. Criminal sues, and government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout to criminal. Collateral person gets hurt and sues, government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout to collateral.

    Wal-Mart pays. Victims pay. Taxpayers pay. And they cumulatively pay far more than the perpetrator of all this: the criminal. And we call this justice.

    It is reason in government we need here, not ire against Wal-Mart. A reasonable government would result in reasonable policies at Wal-Mart.

    To those four guys who value their life above all and who have more self esteem than the government wants them to have: NICE GOING!!! THANK YOU!

  • AggieNation St.George, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    Walmart absolutely does not have the market cornered on low pricing. Smith's has consistently competitive prices, and if you actually take the time to comparison shop, you will realize that Wal-mart uses store-positioning tactics in order to "gouge". They have good deals on the aisle ends, and then have retail price items as you go down the actual aisle, which often cost less at a K-mart or Shopko. My wife and I found a baby carrier and stroller combo (exact model) at wal-mart and compared it to K-mart. Guess what? We saved $20. Don't be a fool to the marketing ploys Wal-mart puts up. Shop other stores.

  • Dorothy Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    I haven't shopped at WalMart since December 2007 for many reasons. They just added one more. I give my business to Target and dollar stores. I hope these four find work at Target, a company that truly values its customers AND employees.

  • Sparky908 Yakima, WA
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:29 a.m.

    This has nothing to do with these people defending merchandise, it was a matter of who was going to come out alive. This was a split second decision that was made on the scene. Everyone came out alive, no one was hurt, criminal is being prosecuted. Walmart certainly is missing the point on this one.

    I will withhold my business from them till this is corrected and yes, they will hear from me.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:32 a.m.

    Hire them back.

    Immediately!

  • stuff Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:34 a.m.

    These guys are HEROES! I've been mostly avoiding walmart for a year or so and will continue to do so. There are alternatives, i.e., Target, etc. I'll also be sure to 'carry' if I go to walmart now that we know they allow armed felons to roam their store with violent intent. At least I can try to protect myself and a few others around me. If they then don't like me as a customer, then that would be fine with me.

    These guys have every right and obligation to protect their own lives and they are commended for trying to protect customers.

    And, walmart is definitely a 'liberal', 'progressive' company. It works much different today than it did originally under Sam Walton.

  • Pianoman99 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:42 a.m.

    i turned in my two weeks notice yesterday at wal mart! whoo!

  • Ray73 Bluffdale, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:52 a.m.

    They wern't in violation of company policy until the gun came out. What were they supposed to do at this point that the gunman placed them into a deadly force situation?? Walmart has rules to protect their employees, but how do you train for this type of situation when your life is on the line. Walmart deserves all the criticism they are getting on this one.

  • desnews88493 Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:03 p.m.

    This case is about self-defense. Nothing else. When the suspect pointed the gun, Walmart's contradictory loss prevention policies and the protection of the merchandise suddenly became irrelevant -- the only thing that mattered was the four employees' inalienable right to defend themselves.

    Walmart's hypocritical reasoning is that the policy is "designed to protect employees and make sure they dont put merchandise ahead of their own safety" -- yet their other policies direct the loss prevention team to confront a suspect and take him into a backroom without waiting for police. Because any suspected shoplifter could be armed, ANY interaction WHATSOEVER with a suspect is arguably putting merchandise ahead of safety. It's all a matter of degree.

    To truly put safety ahead of merchandise, the loss prevention team in any given situation should do NOTHING except report the matter to the police and let police confront the suspect off of Walmart property. Why have the confrontation off of Walmart property? Because inviting police onto Walmart property to confront a suspect could also potentially endanger Walmart employees and customers -- since it raises the risk that a potentially armed shoplifter would start shooting at police.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:04 p.m.

    Wal-Mart likely will never understand the Utah mind set of doing what is necessary when it is necessary.

    I don't know how a wrongful dismissal suit would go in the courts based on law, but based on what is right, they have a home run.

    I hope an employer would see these folks are stalwart workers who exercised excellent judgement and action and give them better jobs.

    I've never liked Wal-Mart's business model and this incident adds another reason to continue to shop somewhere else.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    Walmart's message to criminals: You're safe conducting you business with a gun here and we'll fire any employee who dares gets in your way.

  • EgbertThrockmorton Layton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:15 p.m.

    Gentlemen:
    Remember that your JURY is in the Court of Public Opinion. Take this case all the way to formal litigation here in Utah. I seriously doubt Wal-Mart will triumph in your case for wrongful termination and security negligence. So, Wal-Mart "policy" is to take a suspect into a "secure area" but once he produces a weapon in said secure area, you cannot defend your self? How does that square with the legal liability Wal-Mart has to protect it's customers? Obviously, Wal-Mart is self-insured, and THAT is what the Corporate types at Wal-Mart are truly afraid of, a massive penetration of their own stop-loss. Go get 'em boys. You've got a good case. Hit all the talk shows, keep this in the media's attention, because in Wal-Mart's eyes, it IS all about the money they will lose to you guys. Nail them. I won't shop at Wal-Mart,until this is resolved in favor of these four men, who because of Wal-mart's flawed security "policies" were placed in harm's way,and forced to choose between their own lives, and continued employment.Stupid Policies.

  • Mary E Petty Sandy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:16 p.m.

    I just shared this Deseret News story's URL link on my Facebook page, encouraging all of my friends to "read and do more than weep!" I encourage you all to do the same.

    Kudos to those 4 brave men who undoubtedly saved the lives of the Walmart shoppers who were blissfully shopping outside that closed door while these employee heroes were doing asset protection of Walmart's greatest asset, their shoppers!

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    Walmart is making China rich and China in turn is using all that money to build up their military. Keep shopping at ChinaMart!

  • kariw Roy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:32 p.m.

    We appreciate the intentions demonstrated by our associates in this situation, but the actions taken put their safety and potentially the safety of our customers and other associates in jeopardy, Walmart spokesman Dan Fogleman said. In their roles within the store, they were aware of our expectations regarding safety and, unfortunately, their actions have led to them no longer working for the company. - Walmart

    I do not see how the actions taken by the employees put the safety of customers in jeopardy. If anything, they saved the customers! I guess I assumed incorrectly that store security was there to protect the merchandise AND the customers. Wow! I hope that the brave employees either get a lot of money from a lawsuit or they get re-hired with a pay raise...though they probably would not want to work there anymore anyway.

  • Dorothy Provo, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 12:33 p.m.

    It was three men and one woman, not four men.

  • ronsplace36 clearfield, utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    so first walmart fills their stores with crap made from China costing american jobs.And now they are using this as an excuse to fire americans from their stores who kept an armed gunman from going thru their store and posibly shooting any number of customers on the way out that were in his way good job walmart ill do my shopping elsewhere thank you and i bet they hire migrants to replace them no habla

  • kariw Roy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:20 p.m.

    "walmartstores (dot) com/contactus/feedback (dot) aspx" - this is where you can contact Walmart corporate office to voice your complaints. I just gave them a piece of my mind and I hope many others will do the same! I'd post my message to them here, but it turned out to be 2800+ characters...much too long for this comment thread.

  • kariw Roy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    I found this on a Utah criminal defense site: "Self-defense is rooted in the belief that people should be allowed to protect themselves from physical harm. This means that a person does not have to wait until he or she is actually struck to act in self-defense. If a reasonable person in the same circumstances would think that he or she is about to be physically attacked, a person has the right to strike first and prevent the attack. However, people defending themselves cannot use more force than is reasonable -- if they do, they may be guilty of a crime."

    Walmart should not let their "employee law" rule over what the state laws say!!!

  • h3tec Ogden, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:27 p.m.

    Well, another reason to leave Wallmart alone. I have never been into a wallmart, I will never go into a wallmart. I don't support Chinese products. If it's made in America I will support it.

    Sorry these guys prevented folks from being injured, they are heroes. You wally world management folks are completely off on this one...

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:28 p.m.

    RagnerL4 said, "The government is no friend of Wal-Mart in situations like this. Employee sues, government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout. Criminal sues, and government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout to criminal. Collateral person gets hurt and sues, government ensures Wal-Mart makes big payout to collateral."

    Sorry but you have it backwards. Whenever ANYBODY sues, it is a civil matter and the award is set by the jury - you and I. Let's not pretend that government is everybody's friend but let's not make everything "the government's" fault. Wallmart makes a legal decidion based on awards granted by the public - the juries. Let's take the credit where it's due.

  • pikap1868 Layton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 1:35 p.m.

    I didn't read all of the comments but I have the feeling I'm in the minority on this one. These four knew exactly what's supposed to be done in that situation but they chose to do the opposite. They did act courageously but also foolishly. When that guy said "come on guys, let me go", they should have said "ok, have a nice day..." No life is more important than a cheap laptop.

  • Amazedallthetime Muskego, WI
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:12 p.m.

    I just contacted Walmart Corporate about this. I hate shopping at Walmart anyway, but this was the icing on the cake. I will continue to drive past Walmart to shop elsewhere. I think what these men did was commendable - not a reason to fire. That shoplifter was taking the employee hostage! He could have been killed, etc. This kind of garbage ticks me off to no end. Thank goodness these were brave men, not cowards! They saved at least 1 life that day. I consider them as much heroes as the people who stormed the cockpit of the plane that went down in the field on 9/11.

  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:16 p.m.

    I Hope Target has 4 Jobs, because there are 4 Heros looking for work.

    Apparently Wal-Mart's idea of Security and Safety means when a Gun is produced Run Like Heck.

    I believe that perhaps they saved lives their own as well as others, both in the store and outside.

    Also where the heck where they going to flee to.

    Every situation is different and some are outside the Scope of Weritten Policy.

    Is it the ability that employees that have the ability to thing and act on their own, that slipped through the interview process, that bothers Wal-Mart.

    That Common Sence, trumpted written policey and a Convict cought robbing the store, was not turned loose in the store with a gun.

    Is Not the purpose of an Assest Protection person to Protect Assets. Shot Customers are Not Assests any longer.

    Yes a customers can be considered an assest, prohaps the most vital one. They need protection and to feel safe.

    With Sam Walton this would Not have been an issue and perhaps a little side bonus.

    If a Gun is produced and you take the the man/women down, that is the proper thing to do.

  • TwoCents Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    Wow! I worked in retail, and we had similar rules. A manager or the loss prevention department could stop a shop lifter, they were pulled back to a room, and the police were contacted. Other employees were invited to witness the proceedings, and I was chosen to do so a couple of times.

    Knowing the rules, and just imagining that situation I hope that I would work with people brave enough to stand up like this. I can't imagine even considering the option of just stepping back and letting the GUY WITH THE GUN walk through OUR CUSTOMERS on his way back to the car. Who knows what could happen.

    Thanks WalMart for caring about your own cooperate butts above that of your customers/employees. Glad to know that you care. I understand avoiding lawsuits, but you have to take a case by case basis.

    As for those 4 fired: BRAVO!!!! You are awesome people, and deserve better than WalMart.

  • Happy Valley Hillbilly Alpine, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:23 p.m.

    Other than Wal Mart "spokesperson" Dan Fogleman, the identities of those who ordered the firing of these employees are conspicuously absent in the story. DesNews writer Adams might have dug a bit deeper in researching his story. Surely the four workers can identify the person or persons behind this ridiculous action, and the public should know as well.

  • Fairenough4U Draper, utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:36 p.m.

    This is a real dilemma for you conservative corporatists who worship Walmart. Where are you going to buy your 55-gallon drums of Mountain Dew?

  • MCKat Murray, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:38 p.m.

    Unfortunately, since Utah is a "right to work" state, an employer can fire an employee for any reason, including a stupid or ridiculous reason, so long as the employer doesn't fire the employee for a prohibited reason (such as being of a certain race, gender, religion, or age). Utah's conservative, anti-union law will undoubtedly shield WalMart from suffering any legal consequences for their action. Sucks to be an employee in Utah.

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:39 p.m.

    Being fired for defending your life when someone with a gun physically attacks you is outrageous. Wal-Mart is so stupid here, they should promote these guys as heroes for protecting their lives and those of all the customers of the store that could have been shot as this guy ran out.

    Good thing is, any jury will want to really stick it to Wal-Mart after hearing this story, so these guys will probably be millionaires once they take it to court!!!

  • ST Layton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    Walmart and Dan Fogleman - get a CLUE !

  • Rich in California Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:47 p.m.

    Walmart's response to this incident is inexcusable. I have already been shopping at Walmart as little as possible, owing to their business and labor practices, but this is the last straw.

    I've written to Walmart's corporate site expressing my displeasure and telling them that I will NEVER, EVER shop at any Walmart again unless they make things right by these four ex-employees. (And yes, I do mean it, and no, I won't be going back after a while on account of their low prices.)

    I've also written to Whitehouse.gov, suggesting that the President should publicly acknowledge the heroism of these four people in risking their own lives to protect others in and around the store.

  • Anon 64 Oahu, HI
    Feb. 10, 2011 2:54 p.m.

    This is what happens when you do not have a Strong Union.

    Are Wal-Marts Rules Pre or Post 9/11.

    Does the rule on this matter Protect or Endanger Me The Customer.

    Just for the giggles.

    I for the most part love Wal-Mart, except for the Sunday Shopping thing, which I do not do anyway.

    I would love to have a store in their general area that either sells what they do not sell, or gives far more selection and quality.

    I would have loved to have had My Custom Table and Bench Store right near them. Even if I had just gotton 1/100th percent of their customer volume in the drift, I would have been a happy camper and a rich man. I made and sold Middle and High End Custom Furniture. Wal Mart did/does sell a Table I made mass produced in a kit, but the lumber is poor and the quality is not so good.

    What I would Not Do Is Fear Them.

    This was wrong and proof That Employees Need Unions.

  • essay Redwood Valley, CA
    Feb. 10, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    I can understand how this violates company policy, but just because it does, doesn't mean it warrants automatic termination. Each case should be looked at individually and judged by the merits of the circumstances, rather than the apparent blanket termination.

    Hopefully the publicity this action generates will allow those former employees to get even better jobs rather than box store security. This may be a blessing to them.

  • bobosmom small town, Nebraska
    Feb. 10, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    Someone very close to me works at walmart and has expressed the concern about it scares that someone would come in and do the same situation here. I know they have there corporate polices etc but what would you do in the same situation? Many a person either employee or customer could have been killed. I dont think it was right for them to be fired because they probably saved lives.I think it should be handled on a case by case basis. If I had a gun pointing at me Id probably do the exact same thing the 4 Layton employees did. What were they supposed to do? Sit there and take it, I think not.

  • 59state Sunnyside, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 3:52 p.m.

    Just another reason not to shop at Wal Mart. It sounds to me like they really do not care about the employees safety just covering their own rear. From the way the article sounds, if the men had not taken action they may have been shot anyway.

  • Tom Waldron Herriman, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:02 p.m.

    Walmart's policy notifies every would be breaker of the law that they now have the upper hand as a perpetrator. For my own safety, I will now shop elsewhere. Adios Walmart!

  • NedGrimley Brigham City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    Seriously?? Do any of you wonderfully noble "I'll never shop at WalMart again" folks think any retailer has a different policy? Check into Target, Smith's or any other large retailer and you'll find they all stand behind the policy of "Give them what they want, get them out of the store and don't try to be a hero." People's lives are far more valuable than ANY money or merchandise.

    Now, whether the immediate circumstances of this incident justified either the actions of WalMart or the employees involved is impossible for any of us to say, while seated in our comfortable armchairs. And I don't intend to stand up for or disparage either side, since I wasn't there.

    But, realistically, if you think changing to another retailer means you'll find a different policy enforced, you're deluded.

  • Magaju win Scottsbluff, neb
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:31 p.m.

    I would like to thank those men there in Layton that saved the lives of many people including my children and my grandchildren who visit that said store. with their quick thinking and knowing what security people are suppose to do, stopped someone from making a simple procedure that turned into a possible killing spree and nipped it in the bud. That I am truly greatful for. having worked with these people it is sad that walmart would terminate them.

  • shellperson Centerville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:35 p.m.

    I read the story several times before I believed it. I have lived eight decades and have never seen amything this stupid. Arkansas should be ashamed to have Walmart HQ there.

  • ldinkley00 Sunset, Utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:47 p.m.

    I hear that after 6 months they can be rehired BUT they have to start at the bottom and work their way back up the ladder.
    This is so wrong! Injustice at it's best!!!

  • LKM70 centerville, ut
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:50 p.m.

    I am shocked at all the narrow minded comments. Do you really think that a company as big as Walmart did not do a complete investigation? I'm sure there is a video of what went on in that room. The only people that put them in any danger, were themselves.
    Walmart seems to be everybody's favorite whipping boy.
    Apparently the news media has a copy of the "APO9" stating what Walmarts policy is.
    One of the "breaches" of the policy, would have prevented the situation from escalating in the security office if it had been followed in the first place. Corporate secuity policies are put into place to protect the employees and the general public when they are followed properly.
    Policy is policy, not a recommendation, leaving no room for gray area.

  • libertarian Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 4:51 p.m.

    The total stupidity of wallyworld simply can't be overstated. I'm sure this has something to do with lawyers.

  • DavisMan Clearfield, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:08 p.m.

    Well, just one more reason to shop anywhere but Walmart. If Walmart doesn't even care about the safety of their employees, do you think they care about their customers?

  • JRJ Pocatello, ID
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    So just bow your head and allow the run-away foolishness to continue on? Great job, guys. I'm sure you'll get better jobs right away. And as for me, what little I shop at Wal-mart is about to become even less. I'm sure they won't miss my piddly little bit of money, but principle is everything. If I don't hold the line here, where will I? Good practice for future political correctness decisions.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    Reason number 28 I won't shop at WalMart!

  • wYo8 Rock Springs, WY
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    just look at their years of service. Walmart does like to get rid of people after so many years. Break a policy doing and looking out for the public and it became an easy way to terminate these great people.

  • CAVALIERCOUGAR Midlothian, VA
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    I have a lot of very reliable second hand knowledge of the female exec who fired these guys.She has destroyed a lot of lives of former Walmaret employees.She has threatened people with termination if they didn't rat on other employees she had targeted for dismissal. She is despised and feared. I buy very little at Walmart anymore,but that's also for their "why buy it in the US when we can buy it in China" policy.Remember their phoney buy USA campaign of past years?

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    Feb. 10, 2011 5:50 p.m.

    I will be doing what I have already been doing, avoiding Walmart. I have heard so many stories of employees being treated like purchased robots that I have no respect for the policy makers of this overgrown bloated retailer. Like most of the rest of the respondents, I hope these four employees find fantastic jobs elsewhere.

  • byufootballrocks Herndon, VA
    Feb. 10, 2011 6:03 p.m.

    I'm done shopping at WalMart.
    That's the most ridiculous firing I think I've ever come across.
    You don't scrap a 12-year employee and other seasoned veterans of a company who were making a judgement call under duress and stress when people's lives are at stake.
    How about a little maturity?

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:18 p.m.

    Associated Press Article from Sunday's DN:

    "Over the last year, revenue at Wal-Mart stores open at least a year has fallen by an average 0.75 percent each quarter, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers. Revenue rose by an average of nearly 1.7 percent at Target, 8 percent at Costco and 5.9 percent at Family Dollar"

    Wal-Mart knows about Peter's principle and this incident helps reinforce that.

  • hapticz New York, NY
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:24 p.m.

    Home Depot hardware/improvement store has same policy. Recently an associate observed a guy walking out in Waterford Ct store without paying for some stuff, he followed the guy out, took down the car plate number and a week later HE was canned for doing that! The shoplifter guy got away with the stuff too! Talk about a sick society! Corporate nutcakes are in charge!

  • Blaine Cedar City, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:30 p.m.

    I have always considered Wal-Mart's ban on employees possessing self-defense firearms while on the property to be juvenile and a slap in the face for the employees. I am done shopping at Wal-Mart until these heroes are reinstated with no loss of pay and the entire Wal-Mart system drops its ban on employees carrying arms were allowed by law and changes it's stupid policy that prohibits employees from using good judgment when faced with a threat to their lives. The person who made the decision to fire these 4 men should be fired.

  • Dixie Dan Saint George, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:48 p.m.

    Wal-Mart was absolutely correct. The last thing any store needs is a "shoot out" in the store. The down side of letting this person escape is miminal compare to the potential of a fire fight in the store.

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:54 p.m.

    I'm appalled at Walmart's lack of wisdom. How many stores have four employees that would put their lives in jeopardy to do what is right? Very few. I'm a shopper of Walmart but after what they have done I'm going to find another place to shop..I hope these four guys find a good attorney who isn't afraid of Walmart and take them to the cleaners. Walmart has shown how absolutely stupid and uncaring they truly are. I hope the boys win the suit. I'm proud of them for their bravery - they saved many customers from being shot because you don't know what that lunatic could have done. Good for the boys....shame on Walmart.

  • Warrik Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 7:58 p.m.

    It's too bad that Wal-Mart has forgotten about the ideals that Sam Walton had when he started it. It used to be that Wal-Mart cared about people, but any more it seems that all they care about is making money and to heck with the customer (or thier own employees)

  • Rickety Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 8:26 p.m.

    I would imagine the gunman would have grabbed a hostage if confronted by the police. These employees probably saved the life of a Walmart customer.

    What is this company thinking?

  • Kearns_Dad Kearns, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:00 p.m.

    I'm done shopping at Walmart and Sam's Club.

  • Slim Shady 801 Bluffdale, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    To all of you people in Utah that think unions are stupid.....this is the reason why unions were created. When you deal with situations like this as an employee, you need protection. Pro Union....and proud of it.

  • R.Burgandy Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:51 p.m.

    I will not go shop at Walmart anymore!! Back to Smiths and Macy's for us!!

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 9:53 p.m.

    Displaying a gun and taking a hostage with a loaded weapon at point-blank range are two different situations. No one in the room was trying to be a hero to save a $300 computer.
    Walmart's own rules created the situation. Employees are not allowed to take down, search and handcuff a customer in the aisle of the store. Following procedure, they took the suspect into an isolated room at essentially "caged" him.
    With a loaded gun pressed up against an employee, the perp was not likely to simply run out of the store. He would have kept his hostage and possibly freaked out and pulled the trigger.
    This was not a "displayed a weapon" situation. It had already escalated beyond that point.

  • James G. Herriman, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:36 p.m.

    It's not like they went to the sporting goods dept and loaded weapons to apprehend the criminal.

    I hope these men get nominated for a Civic Medal of Valor or some other type of civic commendation for their actions.

    Thank you for your valor.

  • JD8 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 10, 2011 10:56 p.m.

    All I can say is that I am going shopping tomorrow, and Walmart just made a loyal WinCo shopper out of me... maybe they should put the people they fired in charge of the company...they seem to have more common sense than the people in charge now. Ridiculous!

  • Oregon Ute Hermiston, OR
    Feb. 10, 2011 11:15 p.m.

    So what you are telling us Wal-Mart is that if you want to shop lift, make sure you have a weapon, then you will get away and nothing will happen. Not shopping at Wal-Mart anymore. WinCo is so much better anyway. I think a reward for your employees is much more in line with what should be happening.

  • Rebecca Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 12:11 a.m.

    Walmart wants its employees to die for company policy? This is not a warzone, and no employee volunteers to be held at gunpoint and shot.

    These employees handled the situation admirably and should be rehired with pay compensation and a public apology. The woman who fired them should be transferred. Walmart has lost my business.

  • M. Butler Brooklyn, NY
    Feb. 11, 2011 7:37 a.m.

    I've been in Walmart three times in my life. And I'll never go there again.

  • Clark D Houston, TX
    Feb. 11, 2011 9:30 a.m.

    Patriots to your fellow man would be the community not only boycot that store, but set up a demostration in front of the store and discourage trading there until they reinstate these employees. Criminals such as this could very easily taken a hostage and even shoot someone. Remember 9/11 when the passengers of the plane chose to defend their country. Walmart puts other local businesses out of business. Not a patriotic company. Clark Potter

  • Lucy Phoenix, AZ
    Feb. 11, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    I never liked Walmart anyway. This is a great excuse never to go in that store again. Target treats their employees much better.

  • Edmond Dantes West Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    I love Wal-Mart. They did the right thing in this situation. To expect employees to risk their lives for any merchandise in that store is absurd. If someone is stealing something, or threatening others, call the POLICE. Don't expect some "security" or "loss prevention" staff member to intervene. There is a reason police officers are also called LAW ENFORCEMENT.

  • LKM70 centerville, ut
    Feb. 11, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    Someday I hope the truth of what REALLY happened in that room comes out. These four employees know the truth. It's too bad they feel like they need to blow up the facts just to get a reaction from the press and their readers.

  • BOY BLUE South Salt Lake, UT
    Feb. 11, 2011 7:20 p.m.

    They could not run to the door when the suspect draw the gun and standing at escape route of these security guards who want to get out and cool down.. This is terrible policy to follow when you are trapped in the small room with gun pointed at your head. Maybe it will take a killing in security holding room would make them to change the policy.

  • CWEB Orem, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:28 a.m.

    MESSAGE for:

    "Edmond Dantes | 9:56 a.m. Feb. 11, 2011
    West Jordan, Utah
    I love Wal-Mart. They did the right thing in this situation. To expect employees to risk their lives for any merchandise in that store is absurd. If someone is stealing something, or threatening others, call the POLICE. Don't expect some "security" or "loss prevention" staff member to intervene. There is a reason police officers are also called LAW ENFORCEMENT."

    YOU missed the point ED...(I like the name ED--makes you sound soooo intelligent...)

    So, ED, the employees were NOT supposed to only call the police, they were supposed to confront the guy, drag him into a private room, and there be in a situation, with NO police...to have a gun pulled on them...

    So, ED, they are just lucky the freak'n idiot wasn't MORE desperate...and shot them all in the face!

    So, ED, then we'd be reading about families with no MOM, no DADs and wondering why nobody DID anything.

    So, ED, pull....you....head....out!

    And spend your money somewhere else.

    But, ED, if you have to wear shorts & black sox...keep going to Walmart.

  • duane_n_va Vernal, UT
    Feb. 12, 2011 1:13 a.m.

    For everyone that is saying, "Sue Wal-Mart" just know that this is where the stupid policy comes from. We are living in a society that will allow criminals to sue shopkeepers when the criminal is injured during the commission of a crime and those settlements pay far more than 'wrongful termination'. If the gun had gone off and injured anyone in that room it would pay more than 'wrongful termination'. Wal-Mart cannot win in these situations. So go ahead and boycott if it makes you feel better, as for me and my house we will continue to shop there until the company finally crumbles from the weight of its adversaries.

  • Rich in California Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:13 p.m.

    If there were anything other than lawsuits or boycotts that would make any difference to huge companies like Walmart, I'm sure people would be happy to do those other things.

    As it stands, four good people were fired for having the bad luck to wind up in a no-win situation, and it may well be the case that the only thing that will get through to the people in charge of the company is something that hits them in their stock portfolio -- actions too expensive for them to write off as part of the cost of doing business.

  • Magaju win Scottsbluff, neb
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:21 p.m.

    these men and woman did the right thing. Does anyone remember 911 at all or have a clue how the hostages on the air plane did nothing and the planes went into twin towers? It was because of what the policies the air lines had. Do nothing let the gun weilding men do what they want and you will be okay?? hmm how about what the one plane where the hostages took charge and stopped the plane from hitting the white house? would you say they were wrong too for not following policies. These people had training they knew the situation and also knew the police were outside and if this man did get out that possibly more lives would be lost. Can you truely say that they did wrong. I Can not, knowing that my grandchildren has another grandmother that works in that store and could have been there at that time it happened. do you think if they did nothing that my grandchildren where Safe? I doubt it and would not want to bury a grand child like what happened in Arizona. Thank you

  • pua151 Childersburg, AL
    Feb. 12, 2011 12:35 p.m.

    To all you who have decided to stay away from Walmart, then this is a good time to start shopping at thrift stores such as; Deseret Industries, Alabama Thrift Stores, Savalation Army, & many more that are out there supporting very good causes. Walmart should be ashamed of themselves for firing these employees. Customers were not harmed in this situation because it was a controlled environment. These employees were not just thinking of themselves but I'm sure the customer's welfare was at also on their minds.

  • vick07 hurricane, utah
    Feb. 13, 2011 10:47 a.m.

    There must have been a complete investigation into the situation. Walmart would have had access to cameras that the general public does not. They would have had statements from all involved as well as police reports. They would not have made decisions without considering all the evidence. After reading the story, watching the interviews and reading the police report I realize there is more to the story than I thought originally. Plus we the general public are missing the video aspect as well. It is impossible to make a educated judgment on walmarts decision without having access to all the information that walmart officials did.

  • Rich in California Palo Alto, CA
    Feb. 13, 2011 8:51 p.m.

    Saying that Walmart must obviously have made a thorough investigation and "would not have made decisions without considering all the evidence" is meaningless. Until and unless said additional evidence is made public, no one can reasonably be expected to simply ignore what is known and give Walmart an unbounded benefit of the doubt.

    Of course, I assume Walmart is not going to go public with extra material, since the corporate lawyers are presumably insisting that company officials should say nothing pending an anticipated lawsuit.

  • vick07 hurricane, utah
    Feb. 14, 2011 3:50 p.m.

    I would like to see all the evidence in this case before making a decision. But thats not going to happen. All I can do is look at the interview on ksl and read the police report on ksl as well and make my own decision on what might have happened. Only the associates involved and the investigating officials will have all the proof in the case. Without all that information I do not see how anyone can say who was right or wrong.

  • Spot Light Beverly Hills, CA
    Feb. 22, 2011 6:28 a.m.

    What would Sam Walton Say?

  • peacemaker Provo, UT
    Feb. 22, 2011 10:18 a.m.

    Bye Bye WalMart!!!!!!

  • MenaceToSociety Draper, UT
    Feb. 22, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    That's corporate America for you.

  • emp1 Provo, UT
    Feb. 22, 2011 12:02 p.m.

    So let me understand...
    You are fired because you avoided a tragic situation and if someone pulls a gun, you are supposed to back away.
    So Walmart? How do you do that??
    Most likely the Manager had it against the employees and wanted to find an excuse to fire them. I have heard from employees working there that Walmart is a bad place to work. They just confirmed it.

  • dueling banjos salt lake city, ut
    Feb. 22, 2011 2:08 p.m.

    just know the policy going in no more double standards...think before you leap ...respect the company ask questions ..nothing new could be taught in school..wana job keep it ..some times i want to blast off too but must be the money

  • DavidH Meridian, ID
    Feb. 22, 2011 2:27 p.m.

    Everyone should e-mail Wal-Mart and tell them that, unless they reinstate these guys, you will not shop there for a month. Then tell them how much that is worth. If you say that you won't shop there forever, they know that is not going to happen --everyone comes back eventually. When you give a specific time and amount of money you spend, they will get a more precise picture of how much it is going to cost them.

  • apocalypse now Woods Cross, UT
    Feb. 22, 2011 4:50 p.m.

    Re: Proteos

    You can't just throw a statement out there and call it a fact. We don't know what this man's intentions were when he brandished the gun. Here are some facts.

    Walmart's policy prevented these guys from handcuffing the suspect and searching him for a weapon.

    It also trapped the four of them in a tiny room with the gunman.

    When he pulled out the gun just how were they supposed to disengage and retreat to a safe distance?

  • JP Chandler, AZ
    Feb. 22, 2011 9:33 p.m.

    I've had a gun pulled on me before, shoved right in my face. In a situation like that it's hard to think at all, let alone consider company policy. Any action that resulted in zero injuries is a good action. You can second guess what they did all you want, but you don't know how it would have turned out.

  • SLC gal Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 23, 2011 10:29 a.m.

    Mar. 12, 2008 - two monsters run into a Family Dollar waving loaded guns like lunatics. Not even five minutes later, the store manager is dead.

    They didn't mean to shoot him, but they murdered him. I wish we had had people there that night like these Walmart employees in the right place at the right time, who could have stopped the incident from escalating.

    I make this point to point out the main thing, that guns kill, and two, this could have turned out much worse if those four had not been heros, and allowed that lunatic to run loose in the store.

    Bad things happen when loaded guns are around.

  • vick07 hurricane, utah
    Feb. 25, 2011 5:15 p.m.

    For everyone posting: they feared for their lives......gun pointed at their head...gun in their back....he was going to kill someone.... Read the police report of the incident that is linked on ksl and see what the associates gave as their statements about the incident. The Police report states:

    It should be noted that all the loss prevention associates told me that they personally felt that the suspect did not want to harm them with the gun. They told me he never pointed the gun at them... the suspect was using the gun to intimidate them so they would not prvent him from fleeing before police arrived....although the suspect was resisting he was not trying to actively harm anyone he was simply trying to break free so he could flee.

    Plus everyone is stating if they let him go he would have had to run through the store to get out...The exit door is about 8 inches from the security office if the office is at the front of the store.

  • vick07 hurricane, utah
    Feb. 25, 2011 5:27 p.m.

    I will continue to shop at Wal-Mart and I am grateful for their policy on violence. There isn't one thing sold in Wal-Mart that is worth the life of an individual. Wal-Mart "security" is there to prevent loss to the company, not enforce the law. They probably aren't even called "security." I would bet they are called "LOSS PREVENTION." If someone is threat to customers , call the POLICE. Don't expect the "security" of some store to protect you.