He denies allegations and has relaunched economic project
I'm afraid if the truth truly does come out Mr. Koerber will spend some time in
Bluffdale. However, as convincing and charismatic as he is, he will probably
profit starting the "Captive Capitalist Project". As the Captive Capitalist, he
will establish the principles of prison prosperity (i.e. faith begins with
self-interest, people are assets etc). On the side, he will establish Convicts
Capital where he will convince twelve inmates to collect cigarettes from their
friends with a promised return of a case a month. The money will be milled into
equity like concrete court-side real estate. Of course using other young naive
convict's credit scores (pay 'em a pack), lease options to buy,125% LTV, throw
in a luxury car. This and more combined and a film venture cannonizing the
father of cancer sticks, "marlboro man--the founding father and cancer
capitalist." Of course his understanding of the maximum security laws of the
prison will absolve him from any wrong doing and leave his multi-level friends
dealing with the smokeless inmates fury. Just a bad business venture (rob peter
to pay paul, llc) and immoral collective authority destroying his personal
freedom and prosperity.
Aren't Social Security and Medicare the biggest Ponzi schemes in the world?
Previous investors are paid off with the money of new investors... Why
isn't the US attorney's office prosecuting Federal elected officials for running
multi-Billion dollar Ponzi schemes? Hypocrits.
right? He was divorced in November and now remarried -- and HE has the kids???
And with all of the investment money he attracted, he would have to be one of
the greatest salesmen (or con-men) to come along in a very long time.
Is this a case of a duck syndrome? If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck,
walks like a duck, then it must be a duck!
How much did you personally GAIN or LOSE in this "legitimate investment"?If others lost their money and you gained, that says it all.If you lost yours also, maybe you would be vindicated.Bottom line,
did you profit from this venture or not?
Is the news still writing about this guy, and giving him the chance to preach
FYI- The Utah State Prison is actually in Draper, Utah and not Bluffdale, Utah
as one contributor stated.
Who in their right mind would marry someone facing 200 years in jail?
He used the commitment pattern on me, I'm ready to write a check to him right
Would you buy used car from this guy?
This is NOT a case of duck syndrome. No criminal case is. If the guy says he
didn't do it, it's up to the Gov't to prove it. And if they can't, he's NOT
GUILTY. So look to the Govt's actions and discern their motives: if their case
is strong, they should respect the system, keep quiet, and prove up their
accusations in court.Just put yourself in this guy's position;
anyone can be accused by the Gov't of anything. That's why the Bill of Rights
spends so much time on criminal issues, because we all deserve a fair trial. Let this guy get his.
I live in Alpine just off Healy Boulevard. I wonder when they are going to come
and get my neighbor who has been running a real estate Ponzi scheme?We have all heard it right? 3% a month? Promises promises and all he has
done is take everyones money and forget to pay the 3%/month that he owes
everyone.No harm in that right?It is not all his fault
though. People need to get a clue when you get approached with these promises
of obscene profits.
You are correct, however, as our "Free Capitalist" friend is facing federal
charges, he will be sent to a federal prison and not a state prison.
Hind Site is 20/20. How can someone in good conscience who burned through $120
million and have nothing to show for it believe he did nothing wrong.This man is the smoothest of smooth. You won't find a nicer, friendlier, more
intelligent, talented thinker and orating deceiver. A business man he is not.
Whether his intentions in the beginning were right or wrong, what
has resulted is tragic. He destroyed my neighborhood and has bankrupted the
lives of many. Shame on us for thinking this man had a better mouse trap.
Shame on him for creating a false mouse trap.
The government is not on trial here, but this man is. Blaming the government is
his only defense. Someone repentant would admit guilt and try and make things
right. This man is such a good deceiver he has deceived himself
into believing that taking investors money and losing it sometimes happens when
the economy drops off. So, if this is not a ponzi scheme, where did all the
money go? A person can't spend all this money on cars, homes,trips, friends
cars, friends houses, other businesses, and expensive adoptions. Where is the
money? Most of it must have paid the 3% ponzi return. I know
people who put money into this man's quagmire after his equity mill was shut
down, not knowing it was shut down. Where did that money go? They would
certainly like it back. I know people who lost their entire life's
savings thinking their investment were safe because real estate was backing it.
I know people who believe this man is innocent and I know people who
can see through the lies.Let's get on with the trial!
He can blame liberals. That always seems to work in Utah.
There are people who hold promissory notes signed by Mr Koerber, many for
hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hope he plans to repay his debt to these
individuals with proceeds from his current and future enterpises.
Claud's problems are:Claiming high rates of return.Not declaring
losses in a timely manner.Lavish spending on personal property.Those issues have nothing at all to do with good old American Capitalism.
When you hear the following:"3%/month return on your investment""bridge loans""we usually don't accept investments below
$100K (or whatever amount) but since you know (me or friend x) we will make an
exception for you to invest""we have closed investments but will
make an exception for you""if the loan fails we take the asset,
liquidate it and give the investors the money""this is really a no
lose investment"These are the signs of a ponzi scheme. Pick the
product whether it be real estate or whatever and put the these words around it.
Scams.You are in one and you don't believe me?Go ask
for your investment back IN FULL and see what they tell you.You will
quickly find out they are robbing peter to pay paul.Run don't walk
away from this stuff and it is all over the Wasatch Front and everyone thinks it
can't be them that gets victimized.If you choose to ignore the facts
that I have laid out then you will be a victim of your own pride that is telling
you right now that your are too smart to be duped.
There are always at least two greedy people in a scam, the scammer and the
person willing to give them money on a promise of getting rich. Buyer beware!!
True words of wisdom.
The fact remains that Mr. Koerber owes people money and needs to repay. Too
many lives have been ruined and some will live the remainder or their lives in
extreme hardship. I don't think selling one or two exotic cars counts as
This guy will get his in court if found guilty.All the greedy people
who tried to make a bunch of money off smoke and mirrors?I guess you
got yours as well.When will you prideful greedy people ever
A follow up to my "Greed" post.A fool and his money are soon parted.
So what value has Rick actually produced? Can anyone name a prodcut or service
that actually worked?Losing $100 million of other people's money is
what politicians do. He should run for office. He'd fit in great in the Obama
if this is federal court than he will probably only have probation like the Ross
lady in Davis School district infamy and the Native american grave robbers in
what happend today in court? anything?
Thanks to the author of "Captive Capitalist" above--one of the funniest things I
have read in a long time.Laugh out-loud funny!It even
caused me to wake up and turn my brain on!
I am so proud to live in a time when people who post on discussion boards think
we should just do away with juries, and judges, and defense attorneys. I
figure, if all that is said in these comments are true, lets just let the
prosecutors allegations be facts, sentence this guy to the 240 years and get on
to the next criminal they have in their sights. Also, it is so
heartening to know that if someone has a business venture that fails (if that is
what happened in this case) that they are to be assumed a criminal. Thank God none of you have a hand in the justice system, or at least I should
pray. If he's guilty, let him pay. If he's innocent let him walk.
As a citizen I say, let him stand trial. As a reader of the news I say, if I am
ever on trial for anything I hope and pray none of you (well with a few
exceptions) are on the jury.
Hey Rick, er, I mean So ProudNo one is saying that we should do away
with juries, judges, and defense attorneys or that a failing business should be
crimianl.However, you need to read the indictment. Rick's not being
indicted for running a failing business. He's being indicted for tax evasion and
fraud (that's lying and stealing).I for one can't wait until he's on
trail. Once the truth comes out a jury won't have a problem sending Koerber to
jail for the rest of his natural life.
I find this interesting. No one thought is was a Ponzi scheme when they were
getting paid 3% for all those years. The market takes a dive the investments are
lost and everyone starts crying. It is called an investment. There are risks
involved. Those who invested should take accountability for their choice and
decisions. Quit being victims. My money was lost just like everyone else. Quit
crying and figure out a way to make it back.
I agree with the earlier writer, the government runs the biggest ponzi scheme
there is. Just look at their income tax ponzi scheme in addition to social
security and medicare.
When Rick explained his business to me before the big crash I tried to explain
to him that it was a Ponzi scheme.The only way his business would
survive (the way he was running it) was to continue to attract new participants.
His vision didn't allow for my perspective.Rick tries
to come across as a moral winner. He cheated on his first wife (with his
current wife) and is trying to teach others how to live a principle-based life.
Sorry - I don't buy it.
Is it just me or is there practically no new information in this somewhat
lengthy story? This repeated a few facts that have been publicaly available for
months and allowed the Great Spewer of Words to (once again) rapid-fire his
usual round of excuses. Check your time-line, Rick. Your ponzi scheme fell apart
more than a YEAR before the real-estate and financial melt-down. It fell apart
because you were running out of useful idiots in Utah County to rob.
In response to this comment:"We have all heard it right? 3% a month?
Promises promises and all he has done is take everyones money and forget to pay
the 3%/month that he owes everyone. No harm in that right? "It is not all his
fault though. People need to get a clue when you get approached with these
promises of obscene profits."Yes, the greedy idiots who trusted this
snake oil salesman were IDIOTS to trust this obvious liar (I can say that
because I heard the pitch early on and knew that it was a ponzi scheme
INSTANTLY), BUT that does NOT make it their "fault." A woman who dresses in sexy
clothes does NOT ask to be molested. An idiot who trusts a crook with his money
is NOT asking him to make ponzi payments with it. This crime is the "fault" of
one person and one person only: The crook.
You all have good points, on both sides of the equation. The problem
for me comes in the lack of tangible evidence being cited - at all. Burn him at
the stake if he's guilty, that's fine. But everyone is so intent on a witch hunt
to protect the little guy while there's no verifiable evidence as the basis of
your opinions. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to EVERYONE.)For my
part, let's wait to see what evidence is presented at the trial, THEN make a
decision based on reasonable evidence, not emotional vomit that we're convinced
is evident.I just pray that our judicial system is based on
verifiable, reasonable evidence. I would hope you'd ask the same natural right
if you were ever on trial, whether you deserved to be or not.
Most of the people who invested with Rick borrowed money that they lied to get.
I think that everyone who invested should stand trial and have to prove that
they did not lie, cheat, or steal to get the money they invested. Or they need
to shut up, quit crying, and move on. For the people who lost their life
savings or the people that could afford "the borrowed money" without lying, you
were duped by a very good salesman. So I have mixed feelings regarding your
case. But why would you give up enough money that if lost, would ruin you? Maybe
you needed to learn a lesson. If this guy was really buying real estate,
wouldn't some of the money still be tied up? That's what I don't understand (if
he did what he said). It looks like a mixture of subsidizing losses with the end
resulting in a ponzi scheme. The guy thought he could pull out of this with his
wits, how does that saying go...good intentions paved a road somewhere.
I'm hearing a bunch of pathetic sounding comments here. Did everyone really
think the market would go up forever. People were irresponsible, risked more
than they could afford, and are now acting like whinny children who just had
their ice cream fall off the cone onto the ground. The way I see it, if Rick
was really guilty he would already be in jail, but the way things are turning
out it looks like they are really stretching evidence to convict an innocent
businessman.If any of us ever make any money, you can bet that they'll be
trying to convict you of one thing or a other.
There is plenty of blame to go around. But Rick was telling people that their
money was going to be used in a certain way and that it would generate
income.Instead, he used the money to live a profligate lifestyle and
used revenues generated by new entrants to pay the obligations.He
had an obligation to be honest with everyone with whom he was contracting. He
wasn't and he still refuses to be honest about his life and his businesses. He
pretends he is being honest and forthright - but he is spreading half-truths.
Maybe he believes them - but it isn't true.
Saw It Coming, you have absolutely no proof to back up what you are saying. All
if it is based off of hearsay and speculation. If you have real evidence, then
show it, otherwise, you're just part of an angry mob with nothing better to do.
I don't know everything about this guy; but I know for a fact he made profit
some of the time. I paid $1,200 to advertise on his radio show and around $6,000
in educational courses/seminars. That money for me was well spent as
I think I got more value out of it than I put into it. I made around $10k in
sales directly from the radio spots and I believe I'll make millions over the
course of my life from the invaluable lessons I learned from his paid
seminars/coaching.This isn't an endorsement of Rick, it's a witness
that he made a profit at least some of the time. $7,200 from me and I was only
around the group for about a year. That's just a drop in a $100M bucket, but I
heard the group had like 10k people as members... I'm just sayin'...
@Ellis Wyatt: The $7200 he received from you was revenue, not profit. To assume
profit would be to say that what he paid for the radio and to put on his
seminars was less than what he got for it. Who can say that for sure?
@Huh: LOL!Indeed, no one can say for sure what it cost him to get that
revenue from me. Here's what I know. I paid $1,200 for a radio spot that ran
twice a day for a week. His show's producer spent 30 minutes with me putting it
together and almost no time to put it in its lineup along with dozens of other
radio spots. I'm not positive that the other spots paid as well as I did, but
with four advertising spots run during each of six to seven commercial breaks 20
days a month. You do the math and determine the likelihood of
profit. Although it isn't illegal to lose money in business ventures, it is
illegal to never intend to profit and only borrow money to propagate the
illusion. 4 spots, six times daily, 20 days a month= 480 spots. Cut the total
spots in half to be conservative, 240 spots at $600 each (I had two) totals
$144,000. If he charged everyone the same as me including his other companies
that advertised, that's $288,000 a month.
The seminar that cost me the most was a personal coaching program. It's been a
while so I don't remember the specifics, but I paid somewhere around $4,000 for
the course. 40 others were there too who all paid the $4,000 tuition. Rick
lectured for like 16 hours with breaks for lunch and dinner (not provided). That
was day one. Day two was a month later and was another 16 hours. Aside from that
there were two or three conference calls in following months that lasted for an
hour each.Rick did three intensive courses like this. $4,000 each
for 120 people (40x3) equals $480,000. Not bad for ~40 hours of his time. What
is that $10,000 an hour? Sure he provided the classroom (which had other
purposes on regular days) and advertised for the program by sending out emails.
Had a few staff members assisting. Paid power and heat bills.I don't
get it. Are you all just haters? The more I calculate what I know about this
guy, the more sense his side of the story makes. He looks like a legitimate
businessman to me.
Wow, I should wake up before I do math.My radio spot ran twice a day
for a week meaning I bought 10 spots, not two. Each costing $120. Redoing the
math for $120 radio spots x 480 spots = $57,600 a month. I still think that's
likely to be profitable especially including how even having a radio show is
good P.R. and advertising.
I heard one of his cronies pitch me the basic concept of what they did and I
agree with the thoughts that many of the investors are guilty of the same things
they are condemning Rick for. Lying to borrow money from a FDIC insured lending
institution is a big crime. Stating income, claiming owner occupancy, padding
funds in order to qualify for mortgages that weren't obtained honestly... I have
no idea who this Rick guy is and have only heard about him a couple times since
I don't live in Utah so I don't know what his intentions were. Lastly, so many people here mention that their lives were 'ruined' by these
financial losses. The earthquake survivors in Haiti and Chile don't even whine
so loudly about the loss of life and property. It's money, not life. It's time
to remember that those two are not the same.