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Big Brother is coming: NSA's $1.9 billion cyber spy center a power grab

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  • Tai H.
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:18 p.m.

    What's to discuss here? Pork, pork, pork!

  • Re: Tai H
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:38 p.m.

    You have no idea what your talking about. While there may be INCREDIBLE inefficiencies with the NSA, this mission is critical. Cyberwar is exactly that, a war that rages that no one really knows about.

    Buck up, a Cyber 9/11 or Cyber Pearl Harbor is coming.

  • JMT
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:57 p.m.

    The response from 10:38 is what I would expect. I have long said that the Democrats have Welfare and the Republicans have warfare.

    It doesn't matter how ineffecient the welfare/warfare program may be, the end justifies the means. Doesn't matter how many billions are piddled down a rat hole in post-Katrina New Orleans, keep spending money on it. Same here.

    And yes, another hurrican will come; another terror attack will come.

    Pork, pork and more pork. Though since this is Utah, home of the Republicans, this is good pork. It entails warfare.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:58 p.m.

    if it does come then great we can pass a whole bunch of freedom stripping laws that will cost endless amounts of money.

    In the end it wont matter the US will be so far in debt just like Cali noone will accept our IOU's.

  • Tai H.
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:10 p.m.

    Well then, I hope the NSA is reading this post.

    The NSA is incompetent and unprofessional. The money spent on this ridiculous complex could have bought some pink flamingos for every mobile home in Midvale.

    Keep taxing and keep spending. This project is right out of the pork barrel.

  • Can you say nuts?
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:27 p.m.

    The location is setting on enough power to run the city.

    Are they just not saying that, or did they for get about Saratoga Hot Springs?

    I realize 111 F isn't 212 F, but that is the tip of the volcano.


  • Great thinking......
    Dec. 20, 2009 12:39 a.m.

    Just one EMP from a nuke blast in space and poof, 120 acres of paper weights. Or maybe a powerful sun spot. Or just maybe, the boogyman will come out of his cave in Afghanistan to come and get us. You know the one, the same one another 3 letter agency (CIA) failed to get when cornered at Tora Bora. Or maybe a well placed C4 on one of the new power transmission lines now being strung. Give me a break. The NSA can't even protect us from MS13, Bloods, Crips or any other terrorist group.....err....gang inside or outside of the US. I would rather see the money spent on sealing the borders and I don't mean just the cyber sealing of our borders. Just keep on going NSA, spend it like you have it. I guess the "boogyman" worked for dubya.....

  • Dell
    Dec. 20, 2009 6:53 a.m.

    Actually there are ways to shield sensitive electrical material from a nuclear EMP, not cheap, but Faraday Cages or alternating steel and graphite layers work. The also keep out cell phone and other EM radiation presumable protecting the data against unwanted leaks.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:04 a.m.

    It appears that some of you are afraid of your shadows.

    I'm wondering how many jobs this will bring to Utah? What kind of money will this project and then the operation of the center add to our local economy?

  • Every despots dream come true.
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:06 a.m.

    The article says: "But it's not the sort of power trip that keeps civil libertarians lying awake at night." Want to bet? What could one do with 35 megawatts of power?

    The thought of giving the NSA even more POWER to filter through all of our web traffic, emails, and browsing habits doesn't exactly help me doze off to sleep any easier.

    Oh, that's right - only foreign hackers and criminals need to worry about being snooped on.

    Well with our Big Brother passing around 500 new laws and regulations each year, I'm sure we are all criminals by now.

    Look up the "Einstein" NSA projects. -And that's just what they are willing to talk about.

  • Bob Kjar
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:34 a.m.

    Well it looks like our young AFJROTC cadets at Clearfield High School, winners in the Air Force Association's Cyber Patriot competition, will find gainful employment in Utah.

  • Here is Wisdom
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:59 a.m.

    Does anyone remember that during the last cold snap we were told to conserve power? How is this new spy center going to get power when there isn't even enough to handle a cold spell along the Wasatch Front?

  • Here is more Wisdom
    Dec. 20, 2009 8:12 a.m.

    JMT, so what kind of spending is not pork and does not benefit someone, somewhere?

  • Best laid plans.
    Dec. 20, 2009 8:13 a.m.

    No matter how well you plan there is always a hole in it. And someone will find it.

    As for an EMP taking the building our of commission it's not likely, I'm sure the whole building will have EMP and bomb shielding built in it. Only a near direct hit would put this building out of commission.

    With this building in Utah it also makes us a prime target on an enemy's hit or bomb list.

  • WOW
    Dec. 20, 2009 8:21 a.m.

    Look at the airconditioning system on top of that building. It's third of the size of the building. I wonder how far down that building goes in the earth to need a system that big? The building is likely EMP proof. The money spent is a drop in the bucket to save a life. I just wish they stop spending to save our automakers and banks and close our borders. The billions spend could have given everyone FREE medical. The banks and automakers would have regrouped and operated once again only a lot better.

  • Rick
    Dec. 20, 2009 9:40 a.m.

    Nice to see the government making use of our abundant coal generated electricity.

  • DP
    Dec. 20, 2009 11:08 a.m.

    IF "ENERGY IS THE PRE-DOMINANT ISSUE" = THERE IS, of course, the "HATCH" geo-thermal and wind energy plant near Milford [in Beaver County] - which since last Spring has been selling "clean energy" to Anaheim and Disneyland, CA! UNLESS: That Milford [non-nuclear] alternative energy plant is 'a base' from which energy can be generated for an eventual high-speed rail service in this State? CAN UTAH GOVERNMENT[s] ACTUALLY 'plan' that far ahead?

  • DP
    Dec. 20, 2009 11:16 a.m.

    For "Bob Kjar" - US Air Force is NOW 'ramping up' its 24th Air Force "Cyber Command" at Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX.

    Also: The Las Alamos National Labs in New Mexico is deep into cyber-security issues, too, with its highly touted "Road-runner" high-speed, super-computer suite.

    In Las Vegas, NV @ the Smithsonian's Atomic Testing Museum - on October 20th - I heard an amazing CYBER-SECURITY briefing from a Las Alamos official!

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 20, 2009 12:59 p.m.

    Tell the Feds they can build it when they start paying us for all of the land they have locked up in Utah.

    Land that should be used to pay for our schools.

    Meanwhile our kids sit in outdated buildings with no classroom funds and the biggest class sizes in the country.

  • justired
    Dec. 20, 2009 2:44 p.m.

    yes, how about all this coal-fired electical generation capacity that cannot be replaced or added to.

    but what really bothers me is the history of gov't secret project spending. they can spend 1.8 of the 1.9 billion and then cancel the project.

    utah is so unimportant on the national political scene, if it was really something good, it would have gone to a state with more political clout.

  • One could argue...
    Dec. 20, 2009 3:56 p.m.

    ...that big brother has been in Utah ever since Brigham young brought his flock there.

  • ECR
    Dec. 20, 2009 4:06 p.m.

    12:59 - So you think the federal government should pay for new schools in Utah while the rest of the country has to pay for their schools with local taxes. Isn't that a bit presumptuous of you to assume that taxpayers in other states should pay for your schools? Buck up buddy and pay for your own. And by the way, the federal government hasn't "locked up" any land that isn't theirs.

  • wandrew
    Dec. 20, 2009 4:17 p.m.

    Sorry Mr. editor, but as Libertarian Party Chair, I can assure you that this IS the kind of power trip that keeps civil libertarians up at night. I personally do not want our "pretty great state" overrun by spies and thos in the government who think we are all up to something suspicious. If we aren't targets now, what will it take to make us targets?

  • Dan
    Dec. 20, 2009 4:24 p.m.

    Can I have a job application? When do they start interviews?

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 20, 2009 4:59 p.m.

    ECR,

    You sound completely clueless on the topic.

    Do a little research about how much land the feds have taken from the state of Utah by locking it up. Now it can't be developed and the children of Utah suffer the consequences.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 20, 2009 5:01 p.m.

    I agree with the poster that commented about the federal land grab in Utah. One of our senators or representatives should be pressing this issue every year. When Clinton grabbed southern Utah land it just made things even worse.

    Who can step up and pursue this?

  • JMT
    Dec. 20, 2009 5:32 p.m.

    What is not pork? Do you have any idea what this money is being used for? It is another 'black budget' program and even the supporters agree that NSA is very wasteful, though since it is defense related...spend ahoy!

    How much of this capacity is going to be used to continue spying on American citizens without a warrant? What is the information being used for? What checks and balances are on this agency? While this isn't quite as bad as Wash DC completing the Ronald Reagan bldg before Congress even knew it had been budgeted, it is close.

    Everyone knows it is comeing, everyone has ideas as to what the NSA does, very few can tell of the need for any type of capacity. This is like the US Navy building more nuc carriers, the Air Force fighting for another 187 F-22's, the Army having the FCS cancelled only to restore it via subprojects funded in other areas.

    Sorry, simply slapping "national defense" or "security" on a project neither makes it useful or sacred. And when we are buying things of questionable or ill-defined worth, it is pork.

  • Aaron Scott
    Dec. 20, 2009 5:49 p.m.

    Utah deserves every horror it receives. I fled my home for the sanity of Wyoming 22 years ago because the Powers That Be in Utah care for nothing but money, money, money (oh! and development, of ANY sort) and care nothing for what used to be The Place. No pity for you guys, here. You Asked For It as the old show was named.

  • The jobs it will bring...
    Dec. 20, 2009 6:17 p.m.

    ..are akin to a phone calling center. Row after row of poor college kids eavesdropping on conversations instead of calling you during Sunday Dinner. Not many engineering or computer scientists. As mentioned in the article, return missionaries seem to fit the bill well -- willing to work for dirt, no degree, likely know another language, don't question authority. Sounds like Utah was a good pick.

  • 120 Acres in Size????
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:04 p.m.

    Let's put 120 Acres in size of this facility into perspective. That's the equivalent to 30 Nimitz class aircraft carriers parked side by side. If you have ever seen a Nimitz class carrier, it's huge.

    I think that we should focus on ridding our country of the true terrorists that are abundant now. Like stated in an earlier post, GANGS! I don't fear Al Qaeda! I fear Al Gangsta! I highly doubt Al Qaeda will do a drive by in my neighborhood, but Al Gangsta will! I bet NSA will not help us rid ourselves of the gang problem. Al Gangsta accounts for far many times the deaths in the U.S. than Al Qaeda ever will. Al Gangsta has cell phones, but I doubt NSA will impact them.

    Just wait until this monstrosity goes online. Our power rates will be raised because of the huge demand of power this behemoth will require.

  • Cruisingfool
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:23 p.m.

    If you got Windows 7, get rid of it! Billy Gates and the NSA designed it.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:50 p.m.

    More lies going out and more lies coming in.....Lets let the youth and disadvantaged have some health cover and more education instead of..."oh no they got weapons of mass destruction" lies..... at the cost of 1.9 billion...This is pre- Obama trash

  • AHHHHHHH!
    Dec. 20, 2009 7:51 p.m.

    We're all going to die!

    Eventually.....

    After we have been spied on and have nothing left to hide.

  • Big Brother is Coming?
    Dec. 20, 2009 9:14 p.m.

    He's already here. Been here for a long time. Current occupant of the White House will abuse the power, to our loss. Previous occupant of the WH abused the power, to our loss. Current occupant's philosophy will cripple our freedoms with this BB.

  • Here is wisdom once again.
    Dec. 20, 2009 10:08 p.m.

    While everyone on this forum is arguing the rights and wrongs of this NSA spy center, let us not forget that China is not resting on its laurels. It is okay to debate, but let's make it quick.

  • Perplexed but happy
    Dec. 20, 2009 11:03 p.m.

    What are super computers made of that they take this much power to operate?

    Microprocessors, especially the RISC kind are quite energy efficient?

    I am perplexed.

    That said I'm happy we have a resource such as the NSA to be the ghost fly on the wall among the terrorists of the world, so we, if we choose, are not caught off guard.

  • John Connor
    Dec. 21, 2009 12:39 a.m.

    Could it be possible that they need the power because they are planning to develop or construct a system for monitoring cyberspace that uses artificial intelligence. Here's hoping they don't name it Skynet.

  • Probe me! Probe me!
    Dec. 21, 2009 7:39 a.m.

    There's a lot of paranoia about this, and yet most of us give up far more information to Google than the NSA ever would ever probe.

  • DP
    Dec. 21, 2009 7:49 a.m.

    From one of my two earlier posts yesterday = Are the Mainland Chinese attacking our U.S. electronic & computer infra-structures?

    ABSOLUTELY, THEY ARE!

    The Las Alamos National Lab official's briefing I heard in Las Vegas (on October 20th) stated this = The U. S. banking, electrical grids and computer networks are being hit 5,000(!) times per hour(!), per day, 24/7, EVERY DAY.

    THOSE ARE JUST FROM THE Peoples' Republic of China.

    [Over Thanksgiving weekend on C-SPAN: Georgetown University's primary 'cyber-security expert' then testified: "There are more vicious & successful [un-named] countries hacking our networks, than are now operating within the PRC - which recently announced delegating its actions to the PLA = Peoples' Liberation Army"]!

    Despite U.S. Ambassador Jon Huntsman, Jr.'s "spin" on successes alleged in President Obama's mainland China forays: I looked un-successfully for ANY[!] indication[s] that "cyber-security" was an issue raised in Beijing, nor those curious Chinese naval operations being conducted [under rock fortresses] in the vicinity of Hainan Island - which are a reported focus of US military intelligence now.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 21, 2009 9:53 a.m.

    Twitter was attacked over the weekend and brought down for a couple hours by the Iranian Cyber Army.

    For those of you that are too ignorant to understand the warfare that is taking place in cyberspace RIGHT NOW, please shutup.

  • So, DP......
    Dec. 21, 2009 9:55 a.m.

    What you are saying is that the PLA will have another infinite cache of information coming out of Camp Williams? After all, 99.99% of the electronics they will be using will have been made in China.

  • Not just cheap power...
    Dec. 21, 2009 11:03 a.m.

    The NSA won't "tip their hand", but don't forget the abundant supply of intelligent, honest potential employees who will work for cheap to stay in Utah.

  • Amerikagulag
    Dec. 21, 2009 11:20 a.m.

    We've met the enemy and the enemy is YOU!

  • Ian
    Dec. 22, 2009 2:00 a.m.

    USSID 18 is the Bible for anybody NSA. It is hammered into the heads of all involved and places extremely stringent controls on who we can collect on. If you're paranoid about the NSA listening in on you, read this document online and realize that it is preached to the signals intelligence corps constantly and we adhere to it like good LDS folk adhere to the words of the prophet.
    As a returned missionary AF officer working as part of the NSA, I've seen nothing that anybody from Utah should have any worries about. There are lots of black-box ops that take place that I wouldn't know about. From what I've seen though, the NSA places EXTREMELY HEAVY restrictions on collections on US persons. I believe there are too many good people (lots of former missionaries) working at the NSA to allow any breach to happen on a widespread scale. As it stands now, I feel comfortable in my work and don't worry for my countrymens' privacy being intruded upon.

  • Rocky Mountain High
    Dec. 22, 2009 10:07 a.m.

    Get ready for higher power bills. A couple of weeks ago Rocky Mountain Power asked everyone to conserve electricity, that demand was too high. So if we are often maxed out on electricitiy now, how can the power company meet the needs of this power hunger complex?

  • Church State Separation
    Dec. 29, 2009 10:42 a.m.

    So, the Mormons are going to be the one basically to run this behemoth. And the LDS missionaries have expanded their mission on spying on us to further the Church. God save our country.

  • Ron Paul 2012!!!
    Dec. 31, 2009 12:04 p.m.

    For: Perplexed but happy

    RISC chips are not energy efficient especially when you get into the multi-core processors. They suck huge amounts of energy. I believe Sun is not designing 16 core processors. When I was involved we were up to 8 cores.

  • Chris
    Jan. 2, 2010 10:39 a.m.

    All I can say is - be ready to get the hell outta dodge. I don't want to be one of those on the "potential terrorist" list. Think "Minority Report".

  • Jess
    Jan. 2, 2010 8:12 p.m.

    Re. Church/State separation. It never ceases to amaze me that almost any article on almost any subject promotes Mormon bashing in the DN comments. What a shallow life some people live when all they live for to is try to find ways to criticize the LDS church. Grow up.

  • Not Jess
    Jan. 2, 2010 8:25 p.m.

    Jess: Many people bash the KKK, the Nazis, Socialists, Commies, radical Islam, athiests, etc. So what? Are some groups too good for bashing?

  • Anonymous
    Jan. 2, 2010 10:28 p.m.

    Edison was a thief who stole the best ideas and the life from Tesla!