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Utah Jazz: Hawks defense baffles Jazz

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  • Lucky If They Go 2-3
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:22 p.m.

    I said before this trip that the Jazz would probaly go 2-3 on this roadie, but quite frankly they will be lucky to get that. Now it looks more like a road trip of 1-4 is more likely. What a sorry bunch!

  • Ugly
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:25 p.m.

    Shame on you Jazz...that was the ugliest game I did ever see.

  • Give ALT credit
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:26 p.m.

    They completely throttled both DWill and Boozer. They also totally disrupted the Sloan offense. It was pathetic.

    When Maynor came in the offense ran. Sloan experimented with line ups but for the most part the shooting was poor but the defensive intensity picked up.

    The fast pace of the 3rd Q blew the starters out.

    Sloan's offense is worthless on the road. It gets disrupted and he/DWill do not control the pace of the game.

    That is partly Sloan's fault and it is partly DWill's fault. The rest of the team had no intensity with the exception of AK and Fes. Both of them played well. Maynor played well.

    Sloan did switch to a zone and that worked. But then he went man to man again and it was pathetic again. I do not understand Sloan sometimes.

    This one is more on the players than Sloan but his offense is fragil and easily disrupted.

    Another lanky quick team that the Jazz do not match up well with. The inside game did not work, shooting was poor. Maynor, Fes and AK could run the offense. Where was the rest of the team and Why?

  • PurplePeopleEater
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:27 p.m.

    Looks like Sloan decided to let his starters rest in a forgone conclusion game. Might as well. The Jazz aren't going to win every road game on this trip.

    D-Will should play better against the Bobcats Saturday night. Not sure about Booz.

    This road trip is a bad time (or maybe in the long run a good time?) to be introducing players into the line-up for a team that was clicking while shorthanded.

    This road trip is going to be interesting.

  • I see a pattern
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:35 p.m.

    it is also in the 82game data on 5 man combos. The starters can't run the offense on the road so they shoot jump shots.

    AK and Maynor can run the offense together. When Fes comes in the offense also starts running.

    That shows in the combo data and it showed strikingly well tonight.

    Sloan's favorite combo (his starters) is only good against certain types of teams. They get killed on the road by tall quick defenders.

    Maybe he should start adjusting his combos for the strengths of the other team.

    Part of this is on the players. They need to spend a day shooting FTs. The starters also did not hustle at all.

    I really do blame DWill for some of the bad road record. He sets the pace. He runs a slower pace on the road. How come Maynor can run the offense and DWill can't?

    Yes I know ALT put a tall guard on DWill. The ALT coach knows how to coach. He knows how to disrupt Sloan's offense.

    There are reasons for the pathetic patterns. Sloan and DWill know what they are but will not say on camera.

  • The patterns have implications
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:43 p.m.

    Sloan should think about playing Maynor and AK a lot more if DWill can't run the offense. Fes needs to come in fast and play long if Boozer is throttled. Boozer can play with Fes in.

    Sloan's offense is worthless if it can't be run.

    There are times when it will only run if you have the combo of Maynor pushing pace with AK as point forward. OR Fes as the old throwback C which changes the inside game so that it starts to work.

    Sloan should know what he is doing. Why does he insist on playing his favorite combo knowing it is not going to work and is not working. He did put the 2nd unit is fairly quickly and he did play zone but he has got to be smart enough to know that if the starters did not work in Q1 they are not going to work in Q3.

    Does he ever learn? Where is the benefit of 20 years of coaching?

    The players did start playing D and that worked for a while but where was the intensity in the first Q?

    Some of the players just dog it. The team pays.

  • Gretkzy
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:52 p.m.

    i wish Greg Miller would sell the Jazz and buy an NHL hockey team. hockey is such a much more interesting sport than manball.

  • To me it is clear
    Dec. 18, 2009 8:54 p.m.

    The road woes are partly the players. Enough of them just go thru the motions and plan on turning it one in the last 8 minutes if it is close. That fouls up the whole team and negates those who try hard.

    Part of the problem is Sloan and his set rotations. He just does his normal routine knowing full well it is a bad match up and that WILL NOT WORK and then makes no adjustment until it is hopeless.

    For cying out loud. Sloan has coached for 20 years he know what is going to work and what will not and why before the team ever takes the floor.

    Try making a change in the line up for each team. You might win. You know you are going to lose by doing what you do before you do it. Why do you do it? You can't be that dumb.

    The right defenders totally negate DWill and Boozer. At that point it is over because Sloan will never adjust fast enough even if he does the right thing eventually.

    It is mostly a matter of getting out coached. The smart coaches rely on Sloan patterns and slow reactions.

  • Nevada fan
    Dec. 18, 2009 9:09 p.m.

    Is Okur even trying to play defense? If he is, he has to be the worst defender in the NBA!

    Sloan: He just sat there with his mouth wide open during the melt down. Even the commentator's were wondering why he didn't call a timeout. They also commented on all the points that were scored in the paint. Ever heard of the 7 footer that weighs 300lbs by the name of Fes. Yes he does make mistakes, but he changes things in the paint. I wonder why he is put in when its too late?

  • What is with the 23 TOs?
    Dec. 18, 2009 9:24 p.m.

    ATL has a real coach. He prepared his team to disrupt Sloan's tired old pathetic fragile offense.

    Sloan had no answer. Actually he did. He played Maynor with AK and it worked.He played zone and it worked. Then he went right back to what he started with and it did not work. He made no real adjustment. He just did his normal rotation.

    ALT actually had a game plan and totally disrupted Sloan's routine. ALT got into the passing lanes and stole the Jazz blind. They knew what the Jazz were going to do because Sloan and the Jazz are about as predictable as a well rehearst script.

    One team has a coach and one team has a robot. The coach won. Sloan might adjust next game but don't bet on it.

    ALT's coach used Utah's passing game and assist ratio against them. They took Utah's strength and negated it.

    That is what real coaches do. They exploit weakness and the make strength weakness.

    That is what Sloan does not do. He just has a system that many teams do not plan for.

    That is why we want a real coach and adjustments.

  • CP3 > dwill
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:12 p.m.

    So the night after Charles and Kenny deem dwill the best point gaurd in the NBA he lays an absolute egg and CP3 beats the nuggets with 30 points 19 assists.

  • No point
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:13 p.m.

    to this anymore. We all come and complain and hope for the Jazz to change something but face it they never will. Sloan will never change. O'Connor will still do nothing to make the team better. The Millers will always be intimidated and scared to do anything about Sloan running the team into the ground. And the Jazz will not win a championship this year nor next year nor the year after that. As much as i hate to admit it. The Jazz are a second tier team. And they will win some good games but lose some very bad games. Reality Bites

  • JazzHater72
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:30 p.m.

    You gotta love it baby!!!!... We love it when ya lose... So lose some more please!!!

  • Jazzhater72
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:35 p.m.

    Oh yeah and Go Charlotte!!!

  • Stop and think about each
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:40 p.m.

    Player. They have been hand picked by Sloan and really are not that good. Each one has serious limitations. If the Sloan system is disrupted they are just not good enough to play jungle ball and win. They are totally dependent on the system.

    The system is easily disrupted. DEN figured it out last year. Other teams have picked it up.

    The system is a lot easier to disrupt on the road due to the way the refs call games.

    The vaunted Sloan system is a major liability as are many of the players if the system can't be run.

    DWill is supposed to be a super star. However, he gets shut down by big guards and can't handle small quick ones.

    Boozer is great when the system works but he is undersized and a bad fading jump shooter when defended by tall athletic PFs.

    Okur is a Euro C. He also is not that quick or a banger.

    Brewer is a non shooting (slashing) guard.

    CJ is talented but erratic. He may do better with a gun team.

    AK is playing out of his best position. He plays 4 for a gun team better.

  • Think2
    Dec. 18, 2009 10:52 p.m.

    Korver is a shooting specialist but slow defender (tries hard).

    Millsap is an undersize PF who can rebound well but fouls a lot (getting better with his moves and shot).

    Mathews is a rookie with a lot of talent and no experience. Same with Mathews.

    Fes and Koufos are still big projects. Price is insurance.

    How many of these players would fit well on a contender?

    With the exception of Mathews and AK none of them play D well.

    DWill probably could start for a contender. AK is a generalist who would come off of the bench on most contenders. Boozer would not start for most contenders as he is not long enough nor good enough at D.

    The rest are specialists. They only fit the Jazz or would be specialist role players.

    Sloan has created a team that is only good when his offense is functioning. Too many teams have figured out how to stop his offense dead.

    The Sloan's show is obsolete. Further, his hand picked players have to many exploitable weaknesses to make it work long enough to advance in the playoffs.

    He makes the playoffs but can't advance.

    Get a real coach/system.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 18, 2009 11:18 p.m.

    This is all that needs to be said because anything else I say about Sloan will be edited as this is not a free country.

    In the 3rd Quarter reading th Box score; Atlanta outscored the Jazz 23-6 in 6 minutes. Horford was boarding, scoring outbacks, short shots. Marvin Williams was doing whatever he wanted.

    Was that not Brewer man? Where was Okur defensively?


    If you want 2 players that are best to be dealt there may be at least the Brewer possibility.


    Incidentally, To Sloan and his "you know whos" during a 23-6 run, not A) one timeout called by your "man" and 2) no subs as in no Fes althoughly clearly Atlanta had a walk inside layup drill or volleyball DVD

  • Ak Fan
    Dec. 18, 2009 11:42 p.m.

    Jazz got players just cannot have good chemistry and coach. You just cannot live in feudal era.

  • jbra80
    Dec. 18, 2009 11:50 p.m.

    Well i'm glad I didn't see this game. Looking at the box score is even painful. Sounds like a few bench guys did alright, but not much positive to say about this.

  • todd to jbra
    Dec. 18, 2009 11:54 p.m.

    I am emailing Nunn on this more info go into to the Jazz Oracle by tomorrow on his site

  • Board sums it up well tonight
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:24 a.m.

    Coaches stay around long enough and the ship will eventaully sink...in athletics, business, government, it all works that way. The systems eventually get figured out and the vibrant younger opponents take over. It is even common in nature.

    Jerry, are you sorry you stayed around so long?
    Tell us. then do somethi8ng about it.

    PS We love ya Jerry..so retire. It is time for you
    to start enjoying life on the farm. Greg won't fire someone like you who watched him grow up. He has respect for you.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:30 a.m.

    Who can get more out of this squad than Sloan?

    I already have John Lucas, Avery Johnson, Rick Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer, Reggie Theus, Tim Grgovich. That is just the appetizer not even to the main course yet.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:35 a.m.

    Notice the photo on your right of Fesenko putting a thought into Jeff Teague's mind.

    When you are playing a team like Atlanta with athleticism and plays long, the Jazz should have just lived with a zone. However, Zones can be creative and effective, so many defenses box and 1, 2-3, matchup like Boeheim team at Syracuse.

    Sloan makes not one change in the 3rd quarter until the game is out of reach.


    Watch the 2 minute video available online on Highlight package, and watch Okur and tell me if he is making any effort.. Whoever said he does is not telling the truth.. talk about a "one trick pony"

    Guess what though we extended his contract...

  • todd on houdini proposed deal
    Dec. 19, 2009 1:02 a.m.

    He mentioned, Boozer, AK and Miles for Rudy Gay and Gasol.

    Most agreeable. However, I agree Boozer and Okur together are not effective. Boozer like him or not still has numbers among the best power forwards around. Instead of Boozer, maybe throw in Price and Brewer.

    Brewer to me is underacheiving because inconsistent with his skill set. The jumper is still faulty. Now that Memphis has improved to (11-15) they are making progress so I doubt any trade can be made they would agree to.


    I still say a solution is Golden State or the Wizards teams that have nowhere to go period. I am thinking of Caron Butler. I cannot believe they will not shake up the roster. One must remember Flip Sanders had to inherit this squad and not exactly his own.

  • dwill rocks
    Dec. 19, 2009 1:12 a.m.

    Was anyone surprised by the jazz performance tonight? I hope not because I don't see this changing. As long as we have okur and boozer on this team it's going to be the same old. They provide the worst interior defense in the league. Boozer needs to be gone before the deadline. If they wanna package him with okur I'd be happy too. Problem is no one wants boozer for 12 million a year. It will be hilarious if he ends up walking after this season because he's going to take a big pay cut.

  • Jazz Coop
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:07 a.m.

    SLOAN at Pregame: Hey phil, you have those tapes of the hawks you were telling me about, I didn't have a chance to look over them, i hope you scouted them, i didn't.

    Sloan after the first six minutes:Hey, it looks like ak is making a difference, hey, I better take him out before the guys get close.

    Sloan at halftime: I know okur is getting abused inside, and that by all means, ak47 should be in the starting lineup, and I should probably start fez the secondhalf too, but, its going to take alot of effort for my starters to undo my total lack of preparation, and I'd rather watch them burn so I can blame it on them later. since i have no game plan or offensive scheme, or any idea of how to disrupt the hawks, for example, I could call a timeout and tell dwill to dribble baseline, but i won't, . ill try to pretend like im not having fun watching you guys burn as the hawks outscore you by 30POINTS in 6 minutes.

    really, is sloan for real? what a total lack of preparation, along with incompetent game managment.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:25 a.m.

    I used to be Jazz cop, after last night, I don't want the legacy of my monniker tarnished, its time for a change, i'm fez pop, i'm going to change my monniker because sloan stinks.

    can anything really be said about sloan after last night?

    why isn't ak starting?

    why does he burn this team, over and over? Wouldn't it have been better to makes some subs, try to give the starters a chance in the last five minutes,
    tahts the kind of game it was last night,
    instead, burn baby burn.

    sloan better be looking at tapes of charlotte and coming up with a game plan,
    it was obvious he did nothing to prepare for the game last night,
    get rid of him
    i probably know more about the hawks then he does,
    and thats not a good thing.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:37 a.m.

    Sloans lack of preparation is almost as apalling as his game managment.

    he could've saved the game by keeping ak in, like the whole game.

    he could've saved the game by starting fez in the second half

    at the half, i thought, the best way for the jazz to get ten quick points is start fez, have some energy, get ten quick points, then pull him. thats what i would've done.

    but i thought, thats too much to ask for sloan, at least i was sure he'd start kirilenko. i thought that would at least keep us close.

    sloan blew the game, sloan, not williams, owes everyone an apology, not only for last night, but for the last twenty years, i like the apology from williams, but i want one from sloan, sloan is dogging it twice as much as any player.

    what kind of coaches watches his team burn like that? not a good one.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:51 a.m.

    On the upside, my boy fez got some minutes, hes getting a chance to loosen up, the jazz second unit worked the hawks second unit.

    i liked mathews contribution so far, but you have to wonder, how long will he be in the starting lineup, i don't think hes just "earned" his starting role, i think hes earned time in the rotation so far, thats all.

    this is what the starting lineup should be:

    fesenko
    boozer
    ak47
    korver/brewer
    williams

    those five give us the best chance, i put a / between korver brewer, i think korver is the longterm starter, brewer should start in the meantime, both deserve to start.

    how long will okur start? crying out loud. id hope that last night would send him to the bench, along with his body of work the last two years, i doubt it. okur can be a good backup, i'd bring him off the bench, give him 25 minutes off the bench, start korver and have okur off the bench,
    thats what Id do!!!

    this is what sloan will do, nothing, including scouting on other teams, nothing,
    watch corn mayber, thats it.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:58 a.m.

    Just putting ak into the starting lineup would help alot, sloan is just going to wait until there is no chemistry with ak and the starting unit, then he'll do it and blame ak for it.

    theres no good reason, since last year, that ak hasnt been in the starting lineup, we have plenty of guys off the bench now, start the five best players for crying out loud,

    sloan is trying to do it like poopyvich, it works for the spurs, bringin manu off the bench,
    okur can be our man off the bench, instant offense, start fez for crying out loud, give us some defense, or at least the hope that we might see some.

    a coach could use last night as an excuse to bench anyone, he could bench okur because of last night, will he? no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    right now is as good a time as any to make some changes to the starting lineup.

    starting ak47 is a no brainer, and it should've happened since last year. the jazz are better with him in the starting lineup.

    i'd try that for now.

    with plans to start fez down the road.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 4:16 a.m.

    If I were sloan, i'd immediately put ak into the starting lineup, move brewer to starting guard, this shouldn't cause much ripples in the locker room.

    In the next few games, I'd then switch korver in at starting guard.

    I'd keep okur on a very short leash, i'd make it known to him that his starting job is on the line, that unless he steps it up, he's going to get jerked around and played in unusual positions, positions where he won't kill the team, because hes killing us. yeah, fesenko isn't the answer right now, neither is millsap, but fesenko would be starting for me after about twenty more games, based on last night, theres good reason to think he should start right now.


    is sloan even aware of who the bobcats have on their roster?
    does he have a game plan?
    I doubt it, his modus operandi is to blame the players for his lack of preparation and management,

    williams apologizes, man, that hurts, what does sloan do,
    blame the players, watch the team burn,
    man.

    sloan owes us twenty years worth of apology.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 4:40 a.m.

    Cha is going to have a game plan, probably alot like atl. they are going to attack okur and expose the jazz weakest link. thats the word on the street.

    is sloan going to have a counter plan of attack.

    is he going to anticipate how cha will attack okur? how they might attack boozer, or any of the other players? does he have an answer, no!!!!!

    can sloan take advantage of the fact that the game plan is attack okur, and use that as leverage, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its not okurs fault, hes got alligator arms, and hes slow running the court, like, all the time, for no good reason?

    theres places in the game for okur, he can be instant offense, he can be effective, but if hes getting attacked, if the game plan is attack okur, thats what happened last night, they expose okur, open up the outside and hit 3's, once okur gets exposed, he needs to be pulled. you can't keep him in the game, come on sloan, get with it!!!!!!!!!!okur gets attacked on a regular basis, and it kills the jazz, but its sloans fault!!!!!!!!

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 4:47 a.m.

    Okur gets attacked because he's slow and soft, he might have a better idea of whats going on than fez, but it don't matter, teams usually have their way with okur, at least with fez, the other team is going to have to play smart ball to take advantage of him, and its not going to happen every time down the court as it does with okur. plus, its easier to stomach fez making a mistake, than okur just getting abused.

    come on, okur is instant offense, the jazz need defense, when is okur going to start playing defense, tonight? every game? the fact is, i think he tries, he's too slow, which you wonder why? but ontop of that, he's not long enough.

  • scodyshootfight (KC)
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:01 a.m.

    Proposed deal? You cannot trade Boozer, AK, and Miles for Gay and Gasol. AK and Booz make WAAYYYYY too much money for that trade to even be legal. Even if the NBA did allow that trade, why would Memphis give up Gay and Gasol for AK and Booz, especially when they already have Zach Randolph on their team?

  • John Wicks
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:07 a.m.

    D-WIll thinks he is an all star with 2 whole points. This team needs a shakeup in the worst way. Just goes to show CP should have been taken as the Jazz point guard. The one we have now is just an egotistical loser. The whole situation is just plain pathetic!!!

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:09 a.m.

    the hawks have done a good job of building on their success, when they play with that kind of energy, they're tough to beat, for anyone.

    the jazz have done nothing to improve for the last two years, fez should've been playing since last year, okur has hurt this team far more than he has helped it the last two years, its time for okur to find some minutes at the backup,

    how long will it take sloan to realize hes an idiot?

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:14 a.m.

    @dwill rocks

    Theres got to be about 30 teams in the league that would love to pay boozer only 12 mil a year, get a clue, boozer will get a raise next year, boozer is an allstar, and if sloan plays it right, boozer is one of the best pf in the game today, and easily gets 20 and 10 every night.
    problem is,
    sloan is a botch job waiting to happen.

  • Cowboy Joe to Todd
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:19 a.m.

    The salaries don't match up for your trade scenario. At least make a trade up that works.
    Todd what are outbacks? And how did Horford score them. Did he get gift cards to the outback or what?
    Get a life man and only post once or twice.

  • Fez Poop
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:22 a.m.

    One last comment, i liked how sloan pulled all the starters at once, woodson counters by pulling all his starters, this is still the third period, instead of putting boozer and dwill back in the game, slaon just gives the game away, the whole fourth quarter is both second units,
    what a waste, this is what fans pay to see, sloan botching games, all his talk about staying competitive, it sure didn't look like he was trying to win the game last night, what a joke of a coach, i've seen enough, hes got to go, him and okur, bye bye.

  • dave
    Dec. 19, 2009 8:24 a.m.

    notice the caption on the photo. I don't see Milsap in the picture. I see AK and Fez. DNews should hire me, at least I know who the players are and can read the jerseys.

    As for the game, I didn't see it and am glad I didn't. I probably would have just turned it off. Just like Jazz players turned their game off. Just like Sloan turned his brain off. Most sports analyst thought the Jazz would lose, but to not even show up, I don't think anyone could have predicted that. Although we could predict Sloans coaching and substituting.

  • Bench the Starters
    Dec. 19, 2009 8:29 a.m.

    Jerry should start:

    Maynor - PG
    Price - SG
    Miles - SF
    Kirilenko - PF
    Fes - C

    Then maybe think about bringing in the rest. At least then maybe we will see some effort. The starters should be penalized for their lack of effort and giving up. Jerry should also bench himself and let Phil run the team.

  • Remember This
    Dec. 19, 2009 8:37 a.m.

    This a team molded and put together by Sloan and O'Connor. No inheiratance here. This team was traded for drafted and signed by those two men and their seconds. The blame lays right where it should. As for the Sloan offense, well if he's such a good coach of Hall of Fame stature why doesn't he have more than one system to go to when things go in the gutter? Nightly match-ups are what this league is all about! Your system and players stink Sloan! Get out of the way and let new blood develop a new look team PLEASE!

  • Houdini to Todd
    Dec. 19, 2009 9:10 a.m.

    Plenty of blame to go around,including coaches,other than Matthews,Maynor,AK and Millsap,and a lot of that was garbage time,no one came ready,period,trying to run with the Atlanta`s and Phoenix`s is like giving a suicidal person a loaded gun.WON`T WORK,we need a shooting guard and a center plain and simple,Memo is not a center,fes is a project,and we don`t have a decent shooter that`s reliable,and I`m tired of "waiting for "MILES" to "DEVELOPE" not gonna happen,trade for Gasol and Gay,send either Memo or Boozer,Miles for sure and throw in a handful more if you need to.Keep D,-will Millsap,Matthews,the rest ADIOS

  • tony
    Dec. 19, 2009 9:21 a.m.

    Jazz fans need to wake up and smell the coffee. You people blame your coach and some of your players as if the hawks had nothing to do with your team losing last night.

    The hawks are a very good defensive minded team, so whenever your team come to play, they better be prepared to go to war. The hawks are very athletic and capable of shuting down any team on any given night.(Our stats don't lie)

    Since you people are complaining about Boozer and D.William are not getting the job done, how about sending them to the ATL for Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby. I can live with that trade. Can you?

  • re scody shoot fight
    Dec. 19, 2009 9:22 a.m.

    why would Memphis make that trade? they gave Pao Gasol to the Lakers,why won`t they give us a couple of players??

  • Carl
    Dec. 19, 2009 9:59 a.m.

    I can't help but wonder what these guys are doing while out on the road. Partying perhaps??? In any case, their heads are sure not in the game. I'm sick of seeing opposing players blow by Jazz defenders on the periphery and drive unopposed all the way to the basket and then on the other end the Jazz just walking around or standing around on offense. As talented as he is, D-Will starts trying to make it a "Williams-Boozer" game and forgets the other players. No wonder they stand around. Anyway, they all play like they have cement in their shoes.

  • B.R.
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:05 a.m.

    Boozers lack of defense has been totally exposed playing next to Okur. Fes should start with Booze and bring Okur off the bench with Milsap. Fes starting would set a defensive tone down low.

    Maynor pushes the ball and gets us into our offense quick enough for it to have a chance of working. I do not know why D-Will is so insistant on walking the ball up allowing the defense to set.

    Sloan is really struggling coaching right now. It doesn't seem like he is in control of his team. He doesn't have any solutions. He doesn't trust his bigs enough to turn to them for help. Has he forgotten the importance of defense in the paint? His System and use of available personel is very questionable right now.

  • todd to cowboy joe
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:25 a.m.

    I have a life, but why not talk with your friend Greg and get change. After all, you told all of us how the Jazz were moving to Boise

    By the way Joe, I will post when I want, whatever I want. You take things way too personally, lightening up would be superb idea. Maybe, Greg told you at the Gym today his long term plans

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:42 a.m.

    There is a difference between being critical of a player over just thinking the player is worthless and needs to go.

    DWIL is an example: I would not trade him. Yes he has faults defensively and recognition. Yes, he slows down the game too much. However, you will not get a better player there.

    The former Jazz Cop could not have said it any any better. I am tired of Okur masquerading as a Center. If you are going to make a trade, you will have a better chance with Brewer, Miles, unfortunately Maynor, possibly AK if for another expiring Salary and Okur. Any trade I would try and make using this type of combination for a good Solid big#2 or to play as a #3 and a Center.

    Houdini's idea about Gay and Gasol I like a ton.

    The Warriors, Wizards, Sixers, Knicks and Toronto mainly would be the teams I would look to see if a trade scenario would work with someone coming back who could truly help us. Bosh, Maggette, Butler, Jamison are some of the people I am thinking of.

  • D-Will was a joke!!
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:48 a.m.

    You can see the signs everytime it happens and it usually begins with D-Will WALKING THE BALL UP THE FLOOR.

    It all goes down hill from there. Zero early offense--nothing to spark his team into playing defense.

    Then after he lazily plodded up the floor he forced passes into players who were not open which resulted in repeated turnovers.

    D-Will WAS CHECKED OUT LAST NIGHT.

    IF I DID NOT KNOW BETTER I WOULD SAY HE HAD NO INTENTION OF WINNING THAT GAME.

    Not even a mild effort.

    Jumpshots only.

    Allstar?

    Great/good players have bad games but at least they still try.

    I seriously did not even see him trying--worse than that he did not even look bothered by it as he sat on the bench for most of the game.

    When a backup rookie PG runs the offense better than our supposed allstar PG--you know something else is up.

    Maybe the Barkley interview stirred up some old feelings?

    Time to make a deal for some pieces that can win on the road. Boozer/Okur have to be worth something right now.

    Have to trade one or the other--they can't coexist.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:49 a.m.

    Last comments for now: Of Course, Brown is going to attack Okur. After all, he does KNOW MEHMOUT QUITE WELL DOES HE NOT?

    There are many coaches around the league who I think would drool with the talent on the Jazz roster and have ideas how to utilize it.

    I will say this and truly believe it, someone different from our head guy would turn CJ Miles into a polished, mature, all around responsible player ready to get to all-star level. The player would work hard for this type of coach to elevate his game. Knowing no changes will be ever made there except for Phil Johnson in 2 years followed by Ty Corbin, we need to explore trades.

  • Miles
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:51 a.m.

    Houdini, Jerry showed that he is a one trick pony. He can't adjust to the defense because he only has one offensive scheme. Totally exposed.

    CJ can't help this team the way Jerry substitutes him. Shooters need to get in a rhythem. Jerry needs to wake up soon or the season will be over. When Jerry plays CJ over 20 minutes, Jazz win. When he plays him under 20 minutes, Jazz lose unless it is feable NJ.

    Korver is useless.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:53 a.m.

    By the way a birdie told me, after the Jazz suffer a meltdown, where today are all of the "Sloanaholics" that only post when another soft article about how great Jerry is here appears on the boards.

    People that have been hibernating at Jellystone Park come out of the woodwork waking up same time with Yogi Bear and his girlfriend and Ranger Smith

  • I know you Sloan loyalist
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:53 a.m.

    don't want to hear this but this is not just a player problem. Sloan is getting out coached. Either he can't adjust his system so that it works, he is getting mugged and stiffled by coaches who know how to disrupt his offense.

    OR he does not know how to get the players to implement his system. One or two players not doing what they are supposed to will foul up the system.

    OR he is just not willing to make the adjustments, like jerking the right players and inserting the right players (won't change rotations).

    Sloan has 20 years of experience with his system (and others). He has had problems with the execution of the offense for 2 or more years. It is the same team. He should know how to fix this or his system is worthless.

    Look at the teams he has lost to. Many of them are not better teams. Look at his wins. The only reason he beat LA is because the Jazz hit from the outside all night long.

    He does not control the team or he is out coached or both. Some night it is probably both.

  • B.R.
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:59 a.m.

    @ Bench the Starters

    Hey I think you might be on to something here. I would like to see it for a few games just to see if it would work.

  • Chemistry Problem
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:10 a.m.

    There is a chemistry problem between Sloan and the VETs. Sloan knows he is dependent on the Vets for the most part, Boozer especially, Okur and DWill. He knows he is going to play them and give them special treatment.

    Look how he kissed up to Boozer and ruined the season last year just before the playoffs. Further, Boozer had already said he was opting. There was no reason to start Boozer except Sloan wanted to.

    Sloan is hostage to the VETS. He kisses up. On the other hand when the team hits a well coached team and starts losing Sloan does not make the adjustments that would win.

    The players know it is lost at that point and just start mailing it in. They know they are going to lose no matter how hard they play so they pad their stats. They are not dumb. They know what coaching changes need to be made and know that they will not be made.

    Why bust you end for a lost cause? Pad your stats and wait for Sloan to retire. You are getting paid anyway.

    None of them can say it is Sloan's fault. None of them will.

  • Ugghhh!
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:19 a.m.

    Seriously! At what point does it become the coaches fault that the Jazz can't win on the road in 3 years? Apparently in Utah Jazz management land never. Sloan had a great run, but it's time to step down.

  • Sloan has 2 wining
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:35 a.m.

    road records in 20 years. Now that is a pattern.

    Sloan modified his system last year when Boozer was out and Millsap could not run Boozer's play. We know he is fully capable of adjusting when forced to.

    His system is flexible enough that he can adjust and beat teams like LA, ATL, ORL. Those are the phototypes of the modern NBA contenders. However, the key word there was ADJUST.

    That word is not in Sloan vocab or he would have more than 2 wining road records.

    Starting Fes and playing Okur and Millsap together with Brewer could be a big winner. Fes/Boozer need a good outside shooting guard. Okur could open it up for Millsap/Brewer.

    Instead of trying to get every 2/3 playing time try taking the best match ups every night and playing one or two of the 2/3s every other night. That way they will get enough minutes in the games they play to actually get into the flow.

    I am not sure about a big trade. The Jazz are capable if Sloan makes the right adjustments. Sloan may be gone in a year? Trade then. New coach, system and players.

  • It is not just Okur
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:45 a.m.

    Sloan has not come up with an answer (that he likes)for tall athletic teams. He ran two answers last night and they worked but he stopped and went right back to what could not work. The zone worked. ALT did nothing to bust it. There is more than one zone. Try using a few.

    Fes/Boozer is usually a good combo. AK/Maynor is another.

    DWill/Sloan have to control pace. Almost all of the bad Jazz losses involve the wrong pace.

    Can Sloan control pace? Other coaches seem to do it. It is done in the playoffs.

    When the inside Sloan system game is broken there has to be a plan B. Sloan does not have one. The players start shooting out side when the inside is impossible. That is not a plan. That is the only available option in the Sloan nonplan.

    That last one is the key. Sloan refuses to develop an alternative plan for teams his system has no hope of beating because they kill the inside game.

    HOF coaches are not one trick ponies. I have yet to see Sloan ever make serious adjustments and stay with them when they work.

  • todd from santa ana
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:58 a.m.

    According to ESPN the Magazine, the Pistons I read this morning are seriously interested still in acquiring Carlos Boozer in exchange for Richard Hamilton and or T. Prince.

  • Siler
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:00 p.m.

    I just read Siler's blog. He has some interesting comments and quotes.

    Sloan had to know that his usual routine was not going to work against ALT long before he got on the plane. He did absolutely nothing to adjust or prepare for ALT. He knew he was going to lose and lose big. He did nothing to prepare a game plan except blame the players for giving up on an offense that they can not make work against teams like ALT.


    Fire Sloan and let one of the assistants run the team for the rest of the year. If the assistant can fix the problems keep him. If not then get a new coach with a new philosophy and a new group of players to match the coach.

    This has gone on for years. Sloan knows how to prepare and adjust and won't. It is just that simple. At least give this team a coach that will give them a chance to win.

    Eating Sloan's salary extension is the best money the Jazz can spend at this time.

    How long can Jazz management pretend things the emperor has clothes?

  • Uk Jazz
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:20 p.m.

    Looked like a team that had lost before the game started tonight....

    No belief.....

  • Missed
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:27 p.m.

    Oh, the Jazz played a game? You will have to forgive me for being unaware. Since I don't have FSN in my home, I had forgotten that Utah has a team. By reading this story, perhaps they don't. I guess I'm really not missing anything.

  • IPCC
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:30 p.m.

    Seriously, we need to bench the starters and fire sloan before this road trip ends. Get rid of O' Conner too. We need a complete overhaul.

    Look at Phoenix, they got rid of their GM/Coach, traded away key pieces of their team and got Shaq. It doesn't matter that they didn't make the playoffs last year. At least they had change.

    Then we need to give billions, nay, trillions more to our government to fix global warming.

  • Whenever
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:35 p.m.

    the opponents put a big guard on DWill and it disrupts the system Sloan should

    a. put in Maynor (or possibly Price) and move DWill to the SG.

    OR

    He should insert AK to help run the point.

    If that does not work then Fes needs to go in to get the inside game going.

    If that does not work then he needs to put in enough outside shooters that he can open up the outside.

    Other teams know Sloan will not adjust intelligently but will just insist on beating the whole team on a rock.

    They must laugh out loud when the see the Jazz/Sloan on the schedule.

    Miller should privately tell Sloan he has 1 month to fix the Jeckle/Hyde problem or he is gone.

    Put in one of the assistants for Sloan for the rest of the year. If that does not fix the problem abandon the Sloan system and get a real coach.

    If Sloan won't adjust to win then he should join Avery Johnson. They may be good coaches but what good are they if they refuse to use the talent that they have in ways that will win?

  • Re Houdini trade
    Dec. 19, 2009 12:57 p.m.

    "get rid of everyone except D-will,Millsap and Matthews" in addition to those I`d keep Brewer,Maynor and Fes,maybe Koufos,all are bargains and worth a good look,but I agree the rest can get lost now

  • Hugh G. Hater
    Dec. 19, 2009 1:44 p.m.

    Trade talk is worthless unless the player in question fits into Sloan's system.

    Yes, we need a shooting guard to keep the defense honest. Which I also think, imho, would help Sloan's system survive against athletic teams. Yet, the Jazz can't find such a player.

    Jerry Sloan's job is not to win games. It is to play his system. Either that or act like a stroke victim.

    Sloan isn't the only issue, he is just the biggest one. Where is this team's leader? Where is all the $$ going?

  • cortblack
    Dec. 19, 2009 2:41 p.m.

    What a good guy Williams is for apologizing to fans. I was very impressed by this act of respect for the fans that support them. Thank you DWill for representing us! Hope we play better tonight!

  • Stortmort
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:12 p.m.

    Yes D-Will said that he was "sorry" and I would have to agree, he was. He looks like he's gained some weight and doesn't move very fast. Maybe Barkley and him ate too many Pizzas the other night when all the allstar talk was going on over in the studios.

  • Alien
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:16 p.m.

    @ Utah Jazz

    Take me to your leader. Oh,you don't have one? Oh my!!

    Maybe you should let Eric Maynor be leader.

  • 20 years
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:19 p.m.

    If the Jazz have only 2 wining road records over seasons that is a statistical inditement of Jerry Sloan and his philosophies and system. Statistically Sloan is a bond a fide loser. Who causes his teams to lose on the road.

    This is not a matter of changing players. He lost all of those years with some great players. Changing players will not make any difference.

    This is an inditement of the Jazz organization and owners. Any coach who post a losing road record 9 times out of 10 is abusing thier fan base.

    The Organization/Owners and Sloan all know he is not going to produce a winning road team.

    Run a sign (nonparametric) test on Sloans road record. That is prima facia evidence that Sloan is the cause of the road record.

    The biggest lie is for Sloan to claim he does not know why Utah loses on the road. He and the organization know. The player know (but can't say). The fans just keep lapping up the lame exuses like "small market" or "did not execute". The players get blamed.

    Sloan is the primary reason this team does not win.

  • Playoffs
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:27 p.m.

    Sloan knows right now that whoever the Jazz play in the playoffs will put a big guard on DWill and disrupt the system so that it is a liability.

    He however will do nothing now to prempt that problem.

    Why not cross train CJ or Mathews at PG and move DWill to SG? CJ and Mathews are tall enough that they can't be posted like Maynor. The 2 PG approach breaks most teams.

    Why not get Fes ready to start with Boozer so that the Jazz have a chance against tall fast defensive teams? Okur and Millsap play better together anyway.

    Sloan has known exactly what is wrong with this team and how to fix it for years and has DONE NOTHING. All we heard was continuity. Well we have continuity and we are losing to tall athletic teams and bad teams that can play zone.

    What else is new.

    Sloan will run his same old tired unadjusted offense with all of its weaknesses into the playoffs and then wonder why he got beat and will then try to do the same thing next year.

    What does it take to get the Millers to have some common sense?

  • RE: Miles
    Dec. 19, 2009 3:42 p.m.

    Korver "is" worthless, I agree. He's way over paid. so is Kirilenko, so is Okur, so is Milsap. The only difference is they are not worthless. (well maybe Okur is this year.)

  • @ Miles
    Dec. 19, 2009 5:37 p.m.

    Who are you? Where are you from? Did you ever play this game? Anywhere, little league or what? Whats your attraction with C.J.?

  • Miles
    Dec. 19, 2009 6:38 p.m.

    My real name is Hasan,I`m from Pacoima,Cal,moved to Ogden 2 years ago.I played pee-wee ball in Cali,was not very good,I tried out for the junior high team but got cut,I really don`t know what it is about CJ I quess I just like him cause he`s so cute and cuddly.Thanks for your interest

  • Doug
    Dec. 19, 2009 7:18 p.m.

    Lets throw the baby out with the bathwater. Get over the loss and move on. All the crying is not going to speed up Okur on defense.

    All the wannabe coaches are going to put Fes in for 6 quarters when he can't play 2 in a row as he is questionable physically.

    Boy oh boy we are trading Boozer, AK, Brewer, Price Korver and changing KOc and pitching Sloan out the door. Perfection is expected and anything less will not be tolerated by this group.

    The Jazz have played better in many games but guess what Boozer is not hurt, we will be winners in the next game or the one after and we just whipped the Magic and Lakers. We have a good team but we lose from time to time. If you can't live with that then move on.

    We have some smart players and hopefully they will learn something from the loss. Things they won't learn by winning, we just don't want to be the smartest team in the league by learning those things every game.

  • Ed
    Dec. 19, 2009 8:47 p.m.

    Thanks Doug. Your perspective is rational and realistic. And I agree with you.

  • Mials
    Dec. 19, 2009 10:15 p.m.

    Whos this C.J.?

  • todd to "sloanites" ed and doug
    Dec. 19, 2009 11:03 p.m.

    You guys are perfect worthless examples of what I talked about. The only times you post is after the Jazz win a game.


    No one asked for Fes to play 6 quarters or that the Jazz cannot lose a game.

    The issues "realistic not Snow White" we have every reason to be concerned about.

    The Jazz basically "have held serve" on this road trip. I figured a (2-3) trip and would be happy with (3-2).

    The Jazz talent is better than New Jersey and Charlotte so should beat them.

    A win in either Orlando or Miami would make this a good road trip.

  • BigJazzFan
    Dec. 20, 2009 2:46 p.m.

    I beginning to think Dave Rose or Stew Morrell could do a better job than sloan.

    And they will actually prepare for teams.

    Sloan is a one trick pony, he has his system and when that fails he is helpless as a baby.

    Sloan is the worst game-time coach in the league.