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Brad Rock: Max Hall: a fixture in rivalry lore

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  • RR
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:54 p.m.

    I like how you liked it! Everyone in any rivalry dies to say this about their rival, but you know they don't really mean EVERYONE at the school. We need to realize this. He was hating the stupid ute fans doing constant stupid stuff, which is maybe 5% of the total fan base.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 9:58 p.m.

    It will never really matter who won the game now will it?

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:05 p.m.

    Max Hall will spend the rest of his life trying to live down his irresponsible comments.

  • John Gillmore
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:08 p.m.

    I don't think these kind of hateful statements make life more interesting, be it in football or life. I think what Max should have talked about after the win was that it was an emotional win for him since his family had been traumatized (sexually harrassed, beer poured on them) by Utah fans. He could have used this as a way to educate the public on what he had been through. Rather than celebrate this escalation in words, we should all use this incident to take the time to recognize the serious nature of a potentially growing rift in these 2 fanbases, and what that may signal for the entire state in terms of peaceful coexistence of people of LDS and other faiths. This needs to be talked about, now, often, in a constructive way. It is time for the peaceful, mature citizens of Utah to come forward and address this issue. Perhaps I should be writing for Deseret News if my awareness of this is not common among it's journalists.

  • The Truth
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:18 p.m.

    "In all this, Hall did more damage to his own image than he ever did the Utes."

    That's the most true sentence in this whole article. Hall now cements his checkered legacy at BYU by blurting out thoughtless words that will live in infamy. And this after one of the poorest games of his career.

    Sad stuff. Had he only kept it to the beer-throwing idiots that bugged his family, that would have been understandable--even worthy of applause and further discussion. (Something--anything?--needs to be done about the out-of-control fan behavior from Utah and BYU fans alike.) But he overreacted, blasting an entire athletic program and academic institution alike. His apology was too little, too late.

    Does anybody win when this whole thing turns nasty?

  • Chuck Anderson
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:33 p.m.

    Where was this "fire" and rage before the game ? Would the words have been as colorful had the outcome been different ? Weak, go figure

  • Larry Corry
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:40 p.m.

    I agree with John Gillmore, as most sensible people and U and BYU fans will, and I say to the columnist that he should have a guest commentary by John Gillmore where he can suggest some highly positive things that can be done by the majority of the fans, coaches, and players to have a friendly, if not LOVINGLY, (sure that sounds too syrupy for most manly jocks) relationship that is permanant and especially strong during the rival weekends and days. I believe something like this has started when LaVell & Urban were there!!!

  • Great article!!
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:52 p.m.

    Brad Rock, you nailed it on the head. As media members, you love Hall's comments. They give sports radio and sports columnists something to get reactions to. It sparks the rivalry.

    But, you also shared the personal perspective - that Hall will regret this when he's looking for a job and comes across somebody he indirectly offended. And don't think it won't happen.

    Even outside of the career element, he's going to face the fact that he'll be more remembered for his lack of self-restraint, his reprimand, his comments then he will his performance in big games. He'll eventually have to explain to his kids about why articles were written about his lack of sportsmanship when they look his name up on the internet.

    Max Hall - I originally felt you embarrassed me as a Y fan. Now I see that you just embarrassed yourself.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 30, 2009 10:56 p.m.

    I went to BYU and it embarrasses me that TCU, who beat the tar out of both BYU and Utah, handled themselves with more dignity and class than both of these two teams (not to mention the fact that they also showed superior football skills).

    There’s nothing like two bitter rivals bickering about a name calling incident like a bunch of play ground kids while they jockey for 2nd and 3rd place finishes in their division. They should both live by the rule - “never complain too much in life because 90% of people don’t care and the other 10% are glad you have your problems.”

  • The power of the media..
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:02 p.m.

    ...keeping a non-issue alive and kicking. Way to go.

    At some point the media needs to step and take responsibility for stooking the fire of this rivarly as evident by the way they are jumping all over themselves to report, write, publish, and write some more about these comments.

    No, it is not the media's fault for what Hall said, but it is their fault for making such a big deal about what a QB said concerning his rival school. What is the issue...Hall hates the U..so what, so do I and I have several friends who have openly told me they hate BYU. So what. I am not offended about it. It's just their opinion. No big deal. As these comments by Hall are no big deal. Why don't we just let it go and enjoy the game for what it is.

  • Cpatterson
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:05 p.m.

    Has everyone forgotten Eric Weddles comments about BYU a few years ago after the Utes won?

  • iTAKE IT BACK
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:06 p.m.

    i SAID i WOULD GO TO THE BOWL GAME AND CHEER FOR MAX RIGHT UP TO THE POINT HE APOLOGIZED. I DONT NORMALLY GO TO BOWL GAMES BECAUSE THEY TEND TO LOSE.
    THAT APOLOGY SAVED ME AT LEAST A GRAND.
    THE REAL APOLOGY SHOULD COME FROM SOMEONE ON THE HILL TO MAX AND HIS FAMILY AND ALL THE REST OF US WHO NO LONGER ATTEND GAMES AT THE u BECAUSE OF THOSE SAME SO CALLED FANS?

  • Bob in line
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:10 p.m.

    All the nobility aside I have loved the Lenny Gomes quote since I read it way back when. How freaking classic!

    I know, I know, we are suppose to be all noble and above the fray. I played rugby for BYU back in the day and the only game I have ever played in (just over 100 games between college and semi-pro) that was ended early due to fighting was one against Utah. Not our best day but what you gonna do? Let the other guy hit you in the mouth?

    In any case, Hall shouldn't have said it. And if you are going to say something make it entertaining like the Lenny quote. "You'll be pump'n my gas!" How many times have I told that to my brother-in-law, never mind Utah won the game.

    It is a rivalry that we love to hate. Get over it.

  • Hall selfish and bigoted
    Nov. 30, 2009 11:33 p.m.

    Hall thought this game was about him, not BYU or it's football team. His selfish attitude took attention from a great performance by team. His bigoted remarks, that painted all of the University of Utah with a single brush stroke, would have made Archie Bunker smile with joy. As an adult he should know better, don't give me this "kid" stuff.

  • Can't we all just play nice?
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:10 a.m.

    I realize that I should probably follow my own advice since I have strong hatred for certain teams in other sports, but I've never taken anything to this extent and it saddens me to see this take place among two high-profile schools in the state of Utah. I actually like both teams believe it or not and hope that someday we can all just congratulate one another for each other's sucess and be gracious in both victory and defeat. That is how the Lord would want it, right?

  • The power of the media?
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:17 a.m.

    This was an amazing comment: "...keeping a non-issue alive and kicking. Way to go. At some point the media needs to step and take responsibility for stooking the fire of this rivarly as evident by the way they are jumping all over themselves to report, write, publish, and write some more about these comments."

    Have you seen the comments on every one of these stories? That is the PUBLIC. It is YOU. Media my foot. We the people have the power in this day and age and we have demonstrated that we care about this story. Go check the "most popular" list on this website and "most commented" if you doubt it.

  • Rock...when is it EVER..
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:56 a.m.

    acceptable to express hate for anything or anyone, especially if you are from a religious school like BYU? For you to endorse this and thank Hall for his hypocrisy and immaturity for the sake of the rivalry does not do anything to tone down the negative hate. Any rivalry can continue its intensity without the hate, which in Hall's case was out of control.

  • LOL
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:23 a.m.

    Today I had to listen to all my Ute fan friends tell me-with a straight face, mind you, that they don't "hate" BYU. "No, we don't feel that way, we don't say that" etc, etc, I had to laugh. Two days ago it was a common, ordinary word in this rivalry. OF COURSE WE HATE EACHOTHER, PA LEASE! BYU/UTAH is a synonym for HATE. But apparently now if you say it, you're unforgiven.

  • Ummm
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:26 a.m.

    Ummmm, has anyone read a BYU/UTAH blog lately. You say "I hate you" to the other side in a blog and you'll get laughed out of it for being too nice!

  • Scoobie
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:39 a.m.

    I have to agree with some of these fans. I would have much rather seen Max have channeled his disdain for the incidents poured out on his family last year on the football field...it would have had a greater impact. It's unfortunate that he's about to close his BYU career on such a negative note. The wrong forum at the wrong time. Had he waxed the Utes and then referenced that he was somewhat driven and motivated by the events involving his family last year, then it would have been a great personal exclamation point to a nice college career. Now it's going to cause a stir and just magnify the problems of alcohol at U sporting events. All it's going to do is make it worse.

  • AK Cougar
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:55 a.m.

    It is the rivalry and the media and Brad Rock love to keep the dead horse kicking. Time to give it up.

    The BYU - Utah rivalry is a great ones in college football. I too wish it was more civil.

    Max, the one thing I will remember most about this game is seeing 2 Utah defenders (names forgotten) run into each other while Andrew George catches your pass and runs 15 yards untouched into the end zone in OT to win the game. Great way to finish your senior year.

    Now Cougars, go win the bowl game.

  • Brad You Rock
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:33 a.m.

    As usual. You nailed this on the head. It is halarious because his statements is what most of the players wanted to say instead of their normal Sunday School comments acting like they are gracious. You are not gracious in a bloody battle that takes place among rivalry schools. It was obvious from the get go of Utah storming out on the field before the BYU seniors were done and fights breaking out then. His blood was obviously still boiling and probably had been awanting to say this for years as most players that play for either team. Its just a game. His temperment was high from a very poor performance that almost blew up in his face. Give him a break out there. Most all of you felt the same way about Red or Blue. It is an awesome RIVALRY. It is America. Let him speak his mind for a minute and let it go.

  • Hall's legacy
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:11 a.m.

    Leading up to this game, many said that Hall's legacy would be solidified by the outcome. He may be the all-time winningest QB and 3 10-win seasons, etc. But we will only remember him as "I HATE UTAH!"

    Unfortunate for him, that's all we will remember him bye. So long Max, don't let the door slam on your way out!

  • As a Utah fan, I am not offended
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:36 a.m.

    Yes, there are inappropriate, mean-spirited Utah fans, particularly where BYU is concerned. I am not proud of it, but I am very limited in what I can do to change it.

    Max Hall's statements say more about him than they do about the "whole university and their fans and organization." I hope his apology is sincere. Unfortunately, as the Lenny Gomes quote illustrates, he will have to live with those words for a long time.

    Those of you who applaud Hall for his hate-speak, take a close look in the mirror. As a BYU graduate and lifelong member of the LDS church, I know you were taught better.

    I look forward to next year's game. Hopefully we will all behave and speak more appropriately.

  • actually
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:42 a.m.

    It seems that the media is more at fault: when they use words like "holy war" to inflame a rivalry to sell papers - they are the problem.

    Hall did the media a favor. But I have more repsect for a young man angry over his family's abuse than the press who profits on faux indignation.

  • look in the mirror
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:14 a.m.

    He was definitely out of line. The funny thing, though, is how he's been castigated in the online discussion boards by the same people who do the same thing every week. What did Hall say? That he hated the Utes and then made blanket statements about their entire fan base. Um, that's what ALL the obnoxious posters post on discussion boards each week on both sides! People who are criticizing Max need to look in the mirror and see if they are doing the same thing, only not in press conferences and behind the anonymity of screen names.

    So I agree, he was wrong, but I hope everyone moves on and forgives because he didn't do anything more or less than what dozens and dozens of fans do on the discussion boards each week.

  • BYU@PSU
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:19 a.m.

    I'm a BYU alum and am currently studying at Penn State. After Hall's comments (which I personally agree with, for the most part), I wondered what kind of reaction I would get from students and co-workers here who follow college football and know that I am a BYU fan. I was surprised to find that they were surprised this was even making the news! The general consensus is something along the lines of "Your starting quarterback hates your bitter rival? Isn't that what you want?" Several of them even wished that Penn State players would make statements about Ohio State/Michigan/Iowa with the same emotion and hatred in hopes that it would make Penn State play better against those teams.

    It seems to me that the only reason that this is news is because it is happening in Utah and, more specifically, Hall is a BYU player (while a similar news articles would be written if a Utah player had made the comments, I believe that it wouldn't have garnered as much attention and supposedly done so much "damage" to his legacy and career).

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:42 a.m.

    This is all so entertaining!

  • afghanistan
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:52 a.m.

    big deal , did he kill anybody? Not that he's a rocket scientist..he just plays a kid's game for a kings ransom there are much more important issues than tissues!

  • Time To Stand Up
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:20 a.m.

    It's time for BYU fans to put their morals where their mouths have been for years. Max Hall's conduct (on and of the field) on Saturday was a disgrace to his school and his church.

    When Tom Osborne (Three national titles) coached at Nebraska any player caught swearing on the sideline automatically sat out the next game. BYU coaches and players have never come close to his example of sportsmanship and class.

    I love BYU, but the sports department continually disparages the great things that the University accomplishes and stands for. If enough alumni stand up and call for action, maybe they will listen. SIT MAX HALL FOR THE BOWL GAME and show that, BYU doesn't tolerate this kind of behvior.

    Doing nothing proves that, at BYU, winning football games means more than the standards of the church.

  • papa K
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:26 a.m.

    love it! Spot on!

  • Stop the Hate
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:32 a.m.

    Stop the Hate

    Go Utes!!!

  • help
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:46 a.m.

    There's sports hate, which we have felt but which isn't substantial in the end. Then there's "I need a therapist hate". Max sadly falls into the latter category.

    Sports hate disappears after a big win. Real hate shows up an hour later in a press conference.

    Rock may be right that this is good for the rivalry, whatever that means. It is certainly not good for Hall. Kid needs help.

  • LIke a Ute fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:48 a.m.

    I am shocked and appalled that Max would suddenly act like a bad Utah fan.

  • People In Utah - Get Over It
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:02 a.m.

    This has been the dumbest episode of over exagerated media exposure I have ever seen. You people should see how rivalries really go. So he said he hated Utah and said they were classless. BIG STINKIN DEAL! You goody little girls and boys need to read how other rivalries express their content for the other side. Just look rivalries like OSU vs Michigan, Clemson vs South Carolina, Florida vs Georgia and the list could go on and on. Emitt Smith once stated that he hated playing Georgia because the stink of manure that came from the stands and campus made him ill. Oh and by the way he did not say manure. Clemson fans used to cut chickens heads off and spread feathers on the road leading to Howard Stadium before the Carolina game. GET OVER IT. You people, including the media, are acting like a bunch panzies that got your feeling hurt because big brother took your toy away. I just laughed when the MWC reprimanded Hall. For what? Speaking his mind? What Hall said is not that bad and believe me I have seen a lot worse.

  • Re: actually
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:05 a.m.

    I guess you're right. Since the media wants to fuel the fire, I guess I have no choice but treat fans of my rival team with hatred.

    Or, I could take ownership for my own behavior, and treat people like they should be treated.

  • Scoreboard
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:10 a.m.


    Utah 2 BCS
    BYU still dreaming of making BCS one day...2034 (50th anniversary of the so-called NC)

  • Trent Read
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:25 a.m.

    The rivalry should be fierce and heated. It makes it more fun. But it shouldn't be so bitter and so lacking in civility. Hall's comments are just a product of a situation that school and athletic department leadership have allowed to continue. Urban took it to a new level, but Whit and Bronco seem to really not like each other.

    Our current president is a Ute and theirs is a Cougar. Their coach was a Cougar and ours went to a PAC 10 school and has no strong reason to dislike the U. Again, I like the heated rivalry. It's more fun that way. But the leadership of both Universities and programs should do more to inject civility into the rivalry. It starts with the leadership.

    Additionally, both fan bases need some education in sportsmanship. BYU fans need to learn not to "boo" their own team (Bronco still has a chip on his shoulder about that). They also need to not shake their keys when they are ahead or chant overrated. You'd rather your opponent be highly rated, it makes the victory more of an achievement. U fans are even worse IMO.

  • Truth
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:31 a.m.

    It's sad to know that Hall's career, and character, I might add, have been negatively defined by a few minutes after the victory. The truth is, he lost, and lost big. He may have won the game but lost and injured everything else about him. Sad! Sad indeed! He would have been the bigger individual and bigger player had he taken the higher road. Some serious pep talks by coaches, administrators, staff on taking the high road should be part of the game preparations for this rivalry every year.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:35 a.m.

    SCOREBOARD!

    That's now been 3 out of 4 years I can say that!

  • Cougar Nate
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:39 a.m.

    I agree with the Penn State guy. Morgan Scalley said he hated BYU and everybody just blew it off. It is a doubled standard, get over it you cry babies.

  • Brad Rock:
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:40 a.m.

    a fixture in pointing out the obvious...

  • Re: The power of the media
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:44 a.m.

    Nice comment Gordon.

  • Kryptonite!
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:54 a.m.

    If hate is kryptonite to Utes,

    Then beer is kryptonite to Cougars

  • @ Time to Stand up
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:55 a.m.

    Um, check your background facts, Tom Osborne was one of the worst sportsman there ever was. Just look at former player, Lawrence Phillips, for an example of Tom Osborne's legacy. During that time period, WINNING, was the only thing on coach Osborne's mind. He didn't sit Phillips down after beating a female student...the police did.

  • KIB
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:58 a.m.

    Why is the focus solely on Max Hall? When the U of U band played throughout the ceremony while BYU tried to award blankets to seniors in 2005, that was classless. The fan's behavior towards his family WAS classless. Why isn't anything written about how U of U fans treat other fans? And BYU fans aren't the only ones who are treated poorly at the U of U. There is a problem that should be addressed.

  • Hall
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:02 a.m.

    Just said what everyone else thinks, I don't think all of you Ute fans are classless, just the majority of you.

  • DUSTY
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:19 a.m.

    I graduated with my undergrad from BYU and my grad from Utah. I really do fell like it just doubles my sports base. I can cheer for whoever's playing. But Max Hall...hmmmmm. Did anyone else notice he was scared the entire game? I mean Unga can run the ball all day without a pass from Hall, but Hall's number was not called all day. Besides the two short TD passes, did he throw any other pass that game. He was SCARED!!!!!

  • Reality
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:22 a.m.

    For those who genuinely hate the U, Hall's comments were not too offensive. For me and I think the majority of fans on both sides, there is a great deal of passion but in no way do I truly hate anything about Utah. Obviously there are fantastic fans, coaches, students, etc at the U.

    Hall's legacy already had a few asterics because he played so poorly in most big games and had a tendency for turnovers. He actually didn't play well in this game. His comments will only add more negativity to his legacy and if anyone can be the all-time leader in wins and still have a big, fat asteric next to it - it unfortunately now is Max Hall.

    For me though, the most troubling thing about his comments were the glaring lack of self control. The kid is not going to be a pro QB so he is going to have to make it just like the rest of us. No matter how old we are we still make mistakes. But its clear Hall needs to learn some self control to have success in the real world.

  • Winner or Whiner?
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:24 a.m.

    Max Hall is the 'winningest' QB in BYU history.

    OR

    Max Hall is the 'Whiniest' QB in BYU history.

    Take your pick. Brad Rock...'the rock monstah' feel free to use that one in the future if you would like.

    My bumper sticker says 'Honk if you intercepted Max Hall'. I cannot wait to see the next 'Hall inspired' bumper sticker on my car.

    Go UTES!

  • Apologize
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:30 a.m.

    Everyone wants an apology, so here is mine…

    I APOLOGIZE

    …for thinking University Ave. is still a public road when lined with hundreds of red clad Utes.

    …for driving through the gauntlet of obscene signs, gestures, and jeers.

    …for stopping when the crowd closed the road in front of me.

    …for exiting the car when my car was hit.

    …for not enjoying being jostled like a pinball.

    …for feeling dirty when fun loving Ute fans uttered unrepeatable phases questioning my heritage.

    …for pulling a key seeking Ute fan out of my car.

    …for ripping the door closed from the grip of Ute fans.

    …for locking the doors while the car was rocked from side to side.

    …for phoning the Provo Police to ask them to detour drivers from the public streets so others would not have to apologize like myself. The recorded call bears witness of my mistakes.

    I credit two “classy” Moses like Ute fans that parted the “Red Sea” to give me deliverance.

    Oh yes, one more apology… my misguided support for Utah in the Sugar Bowl and any other game. I am sincerely sorry for that, and it won’t happen again anytime soon!

  • RJ
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:46 a.m.

    I quit listening to radio sports talk shows for several reasons. The banter is usually an insult to intelligence, and the combative build up to the local games. I feel the media does much to incite this type of haggling among both batteries of fans. Unfortunately, a few knotheads get carried away, like those who offended Max's family a year ago. Further, I got tired of listening to voices behind the mask of call-in shows express their hatred for BYU. What nonsense! to reference hatred for an institution that has done absolutely nothing to injure them except exist as a strong rival in sports competition. Cooler heads at the U still recruit LDS athletes!
    There are a lot of words that express negative feelings, the most abused is "hate". "I hate spinach, or I hate being bald, etc." The word is rarely accurate in it's application. It is too easy to say, "I hate", rather than think of other appropriate references to negative feelings. So, does Max really hate? I doubt it, just an unfortunate and impulsive use of the wrong word.











    , while few of the that is perhaps reason to hate.

  • Classic rivalry talk
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:49 a.m.

    What would a good rivalry be without a few comments like this? This is good stuff.

  • Hero
    Dec. 1, 2009 9:57 a.m.

    Lenny Gomes will always be my Hero and now Max Hall has elevated himself to Hero status in my book!

  • Wrong
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:16 a.m.

    A couple of comments suggest that Hall's comments are run-of-the-mill for football players against rivals. Not true. I have attended SEC games for years and follow the media coverage closely, where there is even more football passion than anything I ever observed in Utah, and Hall's comments are extreme - no matter what these BYU apologists say otherwise. I thought the reprimand was appropriate and Hall's apology, although obviously not heart-felt, is probably as good as it is going to get for now. This was a great article - a fun, whimsical look at the absurdity in this silly game we take way too serious.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:21 a.m.

    I played for the Y back in the late 60"s. I remember they put us on the student side of the field. We were constantly attacked. Once to the point where some players went into the stands and took off their helmets and had to defended themselves. That was a classless act then and they haven't stopped to this day.

  • Just a thought....
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:38 a.m.

    We've up'd our standards....so,......

  • Hall a winner
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:43 a.m.

    Max Hall - 2, University of Utah - 1

    Bronco Mendenhall - 3, Kyle Whittingham - 2

  • True Blue fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:57 a.m.

    We won the game, that is why I went to the game and that is what I will remember.

  • As a Mormon
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:19 a.m.

    As a Mormon, I am thoroughly embarrassed at my fellow LDS members who are continually calling someone else "classless". This goes against everything BYU and the Church stands for.

    We are being hypocrites ourselves in doing so. Please stop the negativity and finger pointing, it is a terrible reflection of our Faith.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:22 a.m.

    I attended a Utah BYU game with my family several years ago. What yu are tolerating is ridiculous. I grew up in Bufflo NY and at 18 I knew that the attitudes I grew up with were a part of my character development for today. In my youth I had 21 fist fights at bars and just jumping people in other frats, once I was beat to a pulp by 2 cops when I was hancuffed that was what I deserved. I knew what it was like to have to muster up the feelings of hate, as artificial as they were, for the moment. I will tell you rigt now WHAT HAPPENS AT THOSE GAMES IS NOT RIGT. They are the same feelings I had in that very ugly culture I called mine. You are wrong about tolerating the BYU UTAH rivalry attitude just like I was wrong then.

  • bottom line
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:28 a.m.

    Maxie after a cup of postum in the CFL will be counting tree rings w/ Lenny Gomes.

    Maybe, Sean Smith will let him look at his Super Bowl ring in a few yrs.

  • Max Hall Fan
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:35 a.m.

    Honestly, I don't think Hall did any damage to his own reputation. We all know that many Utah fans are verbally and physically abusive. Max may have overstated his case (slightly), but his "clarification" and "apology" certainly remedied that problem. It's well past time that Coach Whittinghma encouraged his own fans to exercise a little self-control.

  • Henry Drummond
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:39 a.m.

    I hate to see Max go out like this. He won the game but lost the respect of most of his own fans. I'm also disappointed in Bronco who speaks so eloquently about leadership but who can't seem to demonstrate any when it is needed the most.

  • Ben
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:40 a.m.

    People are missing the big picture here. Schools like Notre Dame and BYU go out of their way to point out why they are different and have higher standards than other schools. This is often interpretted by other schools as self righteousness. So when BYU players don't measure up to the standards they trumpet, it is more of a story because of the pedestal they place themselves on. I agree with a previous emailer who lauds TCU for their behavior. Perhaps LDS folks from both BYU and Utah can learn from their Christian friends at TCU.

  • @ bottom line
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:50 a.m.

    Who's sean smith? Are you referring to Alex Smith, or Steve Smith perhaps. You are a real U fan.

  • Personal message to Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:59 a.m.

    I don't care what you said Max, you're still one of the greatest QB's to have played in the state of Utah! You've earned you right to say what you feel, whether it's right or wrong. And the only classy people from any school are the ones who will accept your apology and move on.. Keep your chin up young man, you have great things ahead of you!

  • Wise one
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:15 p.m.

    I think that the primary motivation for Hall's rant was six picks at the U game last year, not the six pack "spilled".

  • No question....
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:40 p.m.

    that Max's rant had more to do with how mad he was after last year's game, and that he had to sit and stew about it for a year.

  • re: @ bottom line
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:43 p.m.

    Sean Smith was a cornerback for the utes last year starting for the Miami Dolphins. You should know, he picked off max hall, but so did three other players

  • Me, Myself and I
    Dec. 1, 2009 12:59 p.m.

    The bottom line is no matter how much you don't like the other team you don't act like Max Hall did. Specially after a win. With around 30 career wins he acted like he'd never been there before. Seriously a time that should have been celebrated with teammates family and friends was wasted and in my opinion tarnished forever. His five minute rant will be remembered by most people outside the rivalry more than his accomplishments and accolades. He has forever marred anything he has done over the past 5 years at BYU. No apology can undo what was said, no amount of remorse can take back the hate filled rhetoric. Good luck to both BYU and Utah as they represent our state and the MWC in their respective bowl games.

  • Re: Winner or Whiner?
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:13 p.m.

    Dominoes let's you put bumper stickers on their delivery car?

  • "People say there's no
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:14 p.m.

    backing down in this rivalry." People, what people? So if you can find anyone with one opinion or another than it must be right/true?

    Media nonsense.
    Every once in a while it's not bad to have a little hate incident--a little rudeness, a little uncivil behavior. "He forgot to mention their heritage or their I.Q." Just once I would like to see someone in the media not stir things up just to create more controversy. Oh, that's their job. Terrible, none of the media types could hold a real job, they just like to stick their nose in other people's lives. Just a bunch of gossipers. They're totally classless.

    Now you know how Utah families and fans must feel Mr. Rock.
    So other rivalries in the country are a lot worse? We have all seen a lot worse? Well, if other people are doing it, then it MUST be OK.

    Been to a little league soccer or baseball game lately? Parents out of control. The actions and words that go on with children right there watching. We must/will be held accountable for the effect we have on others.

  • Lenny Gomes/Gregory
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:25 p.m.

    The ironic thing with Lenny Gomes/Gregory, is that while I (a Utah grad) am making $140,000+ a year, he is hitting up Coach McBride for a job at Weber State. Obviously he didn't get the job.

    The lesson is regardless of which school you attend, when you're in the public eye, watch what you say. You set your self up for a big fall in addition to making a fool of yourself. I guarantee there will be some Ute fans still mocking Hall for years to come at every rivalry game. If he had kept his mouth shut, the victory would have done all the talking.

  • wet
    Dec. 1, 2009 1:42 p.m.

    It's said that QBs get too much credit for a win and too much criticism for a loss.

    In this case, Hall deserves ALL the criticsm.

  • Mike
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:48 p.m.

    So what? My favorite teams are BYU and anyone that plays Utah. Big deal, and I graduated from the U.

  • Double Standard Self-Imposed
    Dec. 1, 2009 2:53 p.m.

    Bishop Bronco himself has said that he wants the program to be some sort of spiritual beacon. Silly, of course, but he is the one who is setting the higher standard. The rest of the world sees football for what it is: just a game, a form of entertainment. So long as Bronco and his stripling warrior players keep insisting on holding their team up as some sort of spiritual beacon, then they will be held to a higher standard. Football and religion don't mix. Both are great and have their place, but they don't mix. Hall's comments would not receive the same attention at another school because other schools are not stupid enough to declare that they are spreading spirutual messages. Ironic that Hall's comments came probably less than 24 hours after some testimony at a fireside. The hypocrisy is impressive.

    I was not offended at all by Hall's comments. I agree with the author of the article: it is wonderful! I am disappointed that the Utes lost, but adding this gem to the rivalry lore almost makes the loss worth it. Hall's legacy: mediocrity and mouth.

  • Max Halverson?
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:00 p.m.

    Will Hall need to change his name too?

  • Andrew George
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:18 p.m.

    I've been running since Saturday night and no Ute has caught me yet. Can I please stop running now?

  • Yeah baby
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:26 p.m.

    2-1 vs classless u!

  • sob
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:39 p.m.

    i will keep trying des news

    it seems from this whole thing that there are sure a lot of people who find their self esteem tied up in sporting events, which of course change outcome from year to year. so many feel great as people because their team won or, feel terrible about themselves because their team lost.. it think there should be more to life then that.

  • To Double Standard
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:43 p.m.

    Yes, how utterly foolish for a religious institution to proclaim higher standards than a public school. The nerve!

    You are absolutely correct that any and every team and organization at BYU is held up as a spiritual beacon. I believe it was Christ that imposed the "light on the hill" standard for his followers. If BYU considers itself a Christian university, they should strive for nothing less, even if imperfect humans attending the school do and will always make mistakes. It is absolutely appropriate that Max Hall receive negative attention for his remarks, even if he wouldn't at other schools, because they do not reflect well on the high standards we profess, but often do not achieve.

    It certainly doesn't make the standard, or the declaration of the standard, "stupid." You are right to point out the hypocrisy of doing firesides, then using the most vile profanity from the sidelines (how many of you caught that on TV?) and the foolish rant after the game. Bronco should constantly insist his players abide by the very lofty standards they preach at those firesides.

    Eliminate the hypocrisy by throwing out the bad behavior, not the high standards.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:51 p.m.

    Good luck getting hired anywhere in the State of Utah, Maxine. I don't even think Burger King would hire you to manage the fryers after your comments.

  • Mr. D Vader
    Dec. 1, 2009 3:56 p.m.

    Many fans are stepping to the dark side letting the anger and hatred flow!

    I just miss the good old days of watching a football game with my family and eating out afterwards. Now there's so much poisonous contention. Remember these kinds of things occurred in Wyoming and Las Vegas also with the justification that Cougar fans do it too. Yea right! Cougar fans get drunk and throw beer on people. Oh!!! Fan rioting occurs out east also. Go to a game in the southeast and see how fans go crazy there. That justifies fan profanity here. Cougar fans do it too, it's not just us! Fans can't even wear a spirit shirt without profanity being thrown at them. What's our society coming to? Luke!! Use the force and save us.

  • gdog3
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:01 p.m.

    A Ute perspective here. I was not offended by Max's comments although I think they lacked class. Nevertheless, I don't really think any less of him. That said, I didn't think much of him before Saturday night.

    It's not that I hate Max. I just don't find his personality engaging. His attitude from what I can see is based on fear. Plus his play on the field sparks no thoughts of greatness despite his number of wins. Max is fearful in big games. The cougars won in spite of him on Saturday.

    Sure I am a Ute and I am going to be hard pressed to be to fond of any cougar. Funny thing though, I am actually somewhat partial to Austin Collie despite his boneheaded remarks along the lines of magic happening.

    The culture in Provo rubs me the wrong way. That's fine, many adopt it and find peace. Bottom line, I don't relate to Provoites. Many of them don't relate to me and many a Ute. Thus, our fringe dwellers pour beverages on people (beer, sasperilla, whatever).

    Lessons can be learned by Max and all of us concerning hate.

  • Bort
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:07 p.m.

    So Max Hall will go through life having Ute fans hate him. Whoopdeeedoooo! What is different than before he made the comments? What's sad is that the fans of both teams are still arguing over this incident and Max Hall is the one who has moved on with his life.

  • Dan
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:24 p.m.

    I think that if you get offended by Max Hall's comments, and think that he hates you personally, you need to get some perspective in life, and you're just as much at fault as Max was for saying it. Go ahead, ask President Monson if he was offended and feels hated by Max - better yet, ask him if he cares if Max hates him - I'm sure he's not one bit worried about it, and neither should any of the rest of you. I'm a U grad, and I think Max said what was on his mind - good for you Max!

  • Rivalry gone wild
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:30 p.m.

    When the word "hate" is used when talking about a rivalry it will eventually suck all the fun out the once friendly rivalry. Hate seems to be the word used alot these days by both Utah and BYU players and it needs to stop. This is football for pete sake, not al-Qaeda we are talking about. Hate is destructive and demeaning and denotes something much deeper than football rivalry and I'm afraid the BYU Utah game has sunk to the hate level among players and fans which is too bad. A "good rivalry" is one in which players shake hands before and after the game and honestly enjoy talking to friends on the other team. Also fans from both camps can sit together and enjoy the game and NOT get into a fist fight or throw beer and use vulgar profanity after the game. There is "fun" trash talking and there is "ugly" trash talking and 7 personal fouls during the game make it clear which one the players are using. I played football and baseball in HS and College and I understand competition and I also understand when a rivalry has gone too far.

  • Lowell Fitt
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:32 p.m.

    I find it very interesting that in the comments from the several articles I have read, the only ones that I can really respect are from those who have identified themselves by name. Interesting that Max Hall is perfectly identifiable and was willing to stand personally behind his comments and will take the heat as some suppose. But, with very few exceptions, the fans who have posted opinions, many hateful, prefer to express them anonymously, presumably to avoid having to actually be held personally responsible for them - real cowardly stuff if you ask me. I have pretty much avioded reading the posts after articles because of all the anonymous hate. Unfortunataly this behavior is not only in sports rivelries but sometimes in technical discussion groups I subscribe to. I long for the day when we were all identifiable in our interactions and greater civility was the norm because of it.

    I am sorry to say that due to many of the rude and hateful posts directed at identifiable individuals by anonymous posters that I have read from Utah fans - primarily after articles on BYU, I tend to feel much as Max does.

  • Bryan
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:37 p.m.

    What? The yapping dogs incessantly nipping at the heals of great men for years finally get kicked over the neighbors fence and they don't like it?

    Haha! The Utes are everything Max Hall said they are.



  • Witkin Creek
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:38 p.m.

    The truth Max Hall spoke should burn on in the consciences of biggots and hippies (aka, Ute grads) for decades to come.

    The truth cuts deep. Classless. Period.

  • To: To Double Standard
    Dec. 1, 2009 4:50 p.m.

    I agree that the university should have high spiritual standards. I am LDS and agree with those high standards. My point was that the football program (not the whole school) should not be held up as a spiritual beacon, as it is anything but that. The football program should be treated for what it is: entertainment for the students and local fans, like a movie or going out to eat. It is a game and nothing more. The problem is that Bronco sees his position as coach as a "calling" and is operating under the farce that the football program is somehow going to bless lives spiritually. That is what I find stupid. The university does and should have high standards, but it should also recognize football for what it is.

    It would be wonderful to eliminate just the behavior, but football is not an area where religion and great behavior thrives. Bronco and others need to simply realize that football and religion don't mix, acknowledge that the team is just there for entertainment, and play hard and try to win. The spiritual beacon stuff is a farce and just leads to embarassing hypocrisy.

  • What I don't get
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:01 p.m.

    is maxi pad bashed cougar fans as much as he did Utah and they are to nieve or dumb to get it. The truth hurt Max, he was an average QB by BYU standards regardless of records who never played well in big games. (If you think he played well against Utah you are crazy look at his stat line) His own coach did not trust putting the ball in his hands with 1 minute left to play so he let the clock run down, let Utah tie the game and took his chance on a short field in overtime. His touchdown pass was a horrible decision that luckily for him resulted in the TD, he forced a ball into double coverage, had the defenders not peeled eachother off it is an incompletion or worse a pick. So now instead of going out on top, he goes out looking the fool, regardless of the situation at last years game (not saying it did or did not happen) he showed his true colors, it is often said you don't judge an athlete by how he handled a loss but a victory. No mental toughness! Bad Sport! Cry Baby!

  • Weirdness
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:04 p.m.

    It seems like many Zoobies think that they go to God's school and that they are fighting for God with their sport's teams (ridiculous, I say!)but it somehow turns many of them (not all) hateful and very defensive. It's very weird. I see this with many Utah Jazz fans as well (I suspect they are former Zoobies). They get very ugly and defensive over basketball. Is insecurity deeply rooted in the LDS faith? Or do these people just have so much pent up angst that they need to let it out during sporting events? (I mean that seriously, not to just be a jerk)

    They are all just games, people. God doesn't care who wins a silly game.

  • BYU fans, also hateful
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:09 p.m.

    It is frustrating as a BYU graduate to sit here and read these posts all by BYU fans pointing fingers saying Utah fans are the only classless ones. Are you kidding me? Calling someone classless is classless. Why is no one getting that? Plus, the commenter above calling Utah fans biggots and hippies? If Utah fans are biggots, what does that make Max Hall? Think before you speak.

    Further, I would also argue that many of my BYU associates have never left the state of Utah, trust me, if you think SLC is hippie and liberal, you've obviously never been to Berkley, Boston, NYC, and even Park City probably seems wild to my fellow Provoites.

    Cougars - grow up
    Utes - grow up

  • Pesticide
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:13 p.m.

    WHO'S SEAN SMITH ???? COME ON NOW. ALEX SMITH, STEVE SMITH, JOSEPH SMITH. ALL GREAT UTAH SMITHS. SEAN SMITH WILL SURPASS THEM ALL IN GREATNESS.

  • Why is anyone defending him?
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:16 p.m.

    As an LDS person, we ask tolerance of our beliefs and that people not paint us with a broad brush when they know nothing about us. Yet, Max Hall has done the very act we despise to others, and many are defending him saying it's ok. It's not ok.

  • Ivan M.
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:20 p.m.

    Hall's hate stems from vicious and unscrupulous attacks against his family.

    Utes hates stems from pride and/or their dislike for Mormons.

    No high roads were taken here...but which one may seems to some degree justifiable?

  • BYU folk like Max
    Dec. 1, 2009 5:21 p.m.

    are classless fools. As soon as they stop talking, maybe they will hear the laughter coming from everyone else. I have never had a worse experience with intolerance, ignorance, arrogance, and outright shameful hatred than I did dealing with the LDS culture. Shocking to me as I was expecting otherwise. I guess this football rivalry and self-righteous attitude is just another manifestation of deeper problems.

    I'm not from Utah and don't care about this rivalry much, but I'm sorry to say that Max's silly rant did not surprise me in the least. Any wonder why the Y is received so poorly? Not after dealing with the culture. Too bad...

  • I think it merits attention
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:17 p.m.

    I personally thing Max's statements merit the negative attention he is receiving. How selfish of him to ruin a highlighting win and rob his teammates of the attention and celebration THEY earned, not him and his dismal performance.

    As a Utah graduate and fan, watching the rivalry game is a tradition I participate in with friends year after year (both BYU and Utah fans alike). This year's game proved to be yet another nail-biter and while I was sad my team lost, I had a great time watching and hoping they would pull it off.

    When I first read Hall's statements in the paper, in that moment I was offended because I loved attending the U and all my experiences there and have dear memories at my alma mater just like any other graduate. I also don't disparage other universities (including BYU), have a successful career, volunteer 2x per month and donate to charities regularly. I have also attended numerous football games at RES and not witnessed the behaviors described by BYU fans.

    So, if this means I'm classless, I'll take that over Max Hall's affections any day.

  • Chad S
    Dec. 1, 2009 6:31 p.m.

    Hey, Rockmonster. It's writers like you that fan the flames of hatred in Utah. How does that make you feel? I guess you're okay with that. Journalists just get to hide behind the cowardly veil of "journalism" and "report the story." You're lame.

    BYU 26 - Utah 23.

    Forever.

  • Gah!
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:02 p.m.

    To those of you that keep on defending Max because his family had beer sprinkled on them....

    Have you guys seen the pics of Kyle Whittingham's wife and daughter being terrorized at the game? His daughter is in tears while a crazed Zoobie is lashing out (and people try to hold him back). Your fans are not perfect. They throw food and drinks, and cuss, and even assault people. No sports team has perfect fans. There are enough crazies to go around. So get off of your self-righteous little horsies already. What's class is Kyle Whittingham not getting on TV to whine about how classless Cougars are for terrorizing his family. Max Hall is classless. Stop defending the slimeball, please.

  • Stop the Hate
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:26 p.m.

    When will somebody stop the Hate?

    Go Utes!!!

  • Disguisting Rivalry
    Dec. 1, 2009 7:48 p.m.

    As a Ute fan, I am disgusted by how some fans and players of both teams now and throughout the years have made this rivalry so hateful and downright dirty! This rivalry throughout the years has gone from bad to worse to dirty from attacking players to attacking their family members. Some of you fans who take this crap personal and serious need professional psychological help! If you were to attack me or my family because of a football game, I'm gonna make you wish you were never born, you attack me and my family and your team wins and you still act like an idiot, I'm gonna make you wish your mom and dad never met to give birth to you. For those of you who consider yourself religious and holier than thou, take a page from the bible. The devil is winning and you have made him happy than a redheaded stepchild by taking this rivalry to serious and acting like idiots! I also believe some BYU players and fans are upset because you haven't been to the BCS and won, and Utah has. Keep your heads up, but don't act stupid!

  • MAX HATES ME ... WAAAH!!!
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:19 p.m.

    Not that I care.

    ????????????????

  • A Real Winner
    Dec. 1, 2009 8:57 p.m.

    I watched the game...bottom line, both teams played poorly. Utah beat themselves with the penalties. Max Hall played terribly! Then his Oscar performance at the end of the game...please! A real winner would have had the decency to not trash their opponents. His apology was ridiculous, we all know he didn't mean a word of it. He just did it because the big shots at BYU made him. He should be benched for whatever bowl game BYU gets. He may be the all time winning QB at BYU, he is also the poorest excuse of an athlete at BYU. If you watch films of some of the best athletes of all time, you will see they demonstrated sportsmanship and would congratulate their opponents in defeat. Max Hall won the game and is such a poor athlete that he had to trash Utah. Sorry dude, you aren't as good as you think you are

  • To Double Standard
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:24 p.m.

    I couldn't disagree with "To To Double Standard 4:50" more. I know that under Lavell Edwards, many, many people's lives were blessed immensely, even though he certainly had some knuckleheads go through the program. BYU football, as every program at BYU, should be held up as a spiritual beacon. We should expect our athletes to represent our religion, values, and God himself with the very highest of integrity and moral character, win or lose. If the football team doesn't live up to it 100% of the time, well that may be chalked up to human imperfections. If, on balance, the football program is not a positive reflection on our church and people, and cannot be fixed, they should discontinue the program altogether.

    If the eye offend, pluck it out.

  • Max Hall...
    Dec. 1, 2009 10:59 p.m.

    Max will be remembered in one of two ways...some will remember him for being the winningest qb in byu History and others will dwell on his mistake of ranting about his hate for Utah. I for one will choose to remember the positive... Max not only is the winningest qb in byu history, he also lead byu to two wins in three years over utah. As for those that will always remember his mistake and never forgive or forget, well your a bunch of hypocrites. We have all done and said things that are just as bad and probably some things that are alot worse then Max. Max has apologized and moved on, its time for everyone else to move on as well. I will choose to remember the game for how it was won on the field, instead of how the media is blowing up Max Hall's comments to be much bigger then they really are.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 1, 2009 11:42 p.m.

    BYU fans are no better than utah fans. They spill soda instead. I have been mistreated at every BYU game I have attended but i got over it. A year is a long time to hold anger in or to pretend to say something in the heat of the moment. lol The family of Utah's coach was assaulted at the BYU game too. I dont hear any apologies from max hall about those fans.

  • To Anonymous
    Dec. 2, 2009 1:33 a.m.

    Please get your facts correct before you make such statements! The Utah coach's family was not assaulted! They were near an area where trouble broke out. The reason for the altercation was a Ute sideline person took a cell phone away from a BYU fan that was taking pictures. The cell phone was not returned! A cameraman that was close by filmed the whole thing. The sideline person too, told him he could not take film of the Ute fans. Law enforcement people reported that the Coach’s family was not attacked and it is an on going investigation.

    One thing that is not a falsehood, BYU 26 — Utah 23 and Andrew George is still running!

  • A great new phrase...
    Dec. 2, 2009 8:50 a.m.

    We all have our favorite phrases to sum up the TDS - Utah rivalry games.

    This year will see my new phrase:

    "Max Hall's mouth is still running..."

    Max, the Utes will always love you.

  • New Mantra:
    Dec. 2, 2009 9:32 a.m.

    Max Hall is still hating ...

  • Oh Righty Then...
    Dec. 2, 2009 11:43 a.m.

    I here from an inside source that Hall is not well respected or liked much in the locker room. Good thing he is married so that he goes home after practice or a game. I like the fact that he has to live with this comment for the rest of his life. If I was a BYU player, I would have a good talk with him and let him have it. Good thing there is repentance and forgiveness however there is no FORGETNESS. Live long in your embarrassment.

    Although, if I was a coach at the next level, I might take a chance on him just because he is not afraid to open his mouth. If only he was as tough as he talks.

  • Anonymous
    Dec. 2, 2009 11:51 a.m.

    Well in my opinion I think Max Hall is the Whinest QB in the State of Utah.

    I think they should have had Riley Nelson play, he has the potential to be a heisman Hall has a long way to go!

    Never really cared for BYU and with Hall's comment he changed my mind to ALWAYS hating BYU!

    Riley should have just stayed at Utah State so he didn't have to waste a year of watching interception after intercption all year.

    GO UTES!

  • You'll go down in history...
    Dec. 2, 2009 4:11 p.m.

    I'll love Max. He was a pretty qb.
    Thanks for the wins. 3 years of 10 wins. I love it. I don't know if our program/community/church has the talent to take it to the next level.
    It's hard to win bcs.

  • re Rock:
    Dec. 2, 2009 5:03 p.m.

    I am shocked you are surprised! BYU handled this exactly the way I thought they would...ignore it! Way to represent the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Thanks again BYU

  • SLC Guy
    Dec. 3, 2009 2:45 p.m.

    Put simple, "If you don't have anything good to say...". He represents everyone at BYU, and I doubt they all feel the way he does. Max should have known better than to shoot his mouth off. He may be a great quarterback, but he's deffinitely still child-like in his behavior. That was emotional and unprofessional.

  • too much fun
    Dec. 4, 2009 11:41 p.m.

    But seriously, doesn't the fact that we have thousands of posts on here kind of say we all take football a little too seriously? Come on we have to admit it :)