It seems like we fought a Civil War over a state's ability to nullify federal
law. What's your next suggestion when Washington commands adherence to national
What position will the D-news take next? Perhaps you will advocate Utah opt out
of medicare. How about opting out of social security? You're ridiculus.
If only I could opt out of S.S. and Medicare! I could have invested my money and
retired a wealthy man instead of having the government confiscate it without my
permission, pay me 0% interest and when I retire, I may get back some of it but
at highly inflated dollars what will purchase some small fraction of what it
would have when the goverment took it! Yes, if only I could opt out! What a
farce for anyone to think the S.S. is a good deal! Only an idiot who can't use a
calculator would think it is a good deal for them. You know, sort of like people
who think Obama's health care plan is a good deal!
Too bad that the Utah version is to lame and weak, catering to the health care
industry. There are no mandates that require coverage for expensive preexisting
conditions. There is no mandates for mental health parity, although this will be
included at the federal level for 2010. What about any mechanisms to control
cost and overhead for these grave robbers? This is nothing more than a state
giveaway to insurance and pharmaceutic at the expense of the people. Modeled
after Massachusetts, which is running in the hole at this time costing the
taxpayers of the state to cough up the difference. Businesses will be allowed to
tailor their coverage without mandates, if they don't want to cover mental
health at the same level as medical care, they can opt out of coverage, period.
This is not reform for the people, just a ploy to say that all people have
coverage, even though the coverage is worthless for catastrophic care.
Whether or not it goes anywhere, it may be an effective tactic in letting D.C.
know that Obamacare is not acceptable in Utah and Arizona, and could well be
adopted, in whatever forms, by other states looking out for their people.
Just a thought.I wonder if Rep Wimmer would have the same ideas if
the State of Utah did not pay for his insurance for himself and his family for
his part time service in the legislature.Can any of you who read
this tell me about a similiar part time job with similiar health benefits at the
same costs? Or is it the case of our legislators taking care of
themselves and their families before the public?
I am a child of God, husband to my wife, father to my children. I am an
American because I believe in the American principals of human society.
Somewhere much further down the list, I am a Utahn, but only because I live
here. Only a fool would not want Health Insurance in this day and
age. However exceptions might by someone so poor that health was not a primary
concern, like the homeless who live on the street and the very rich who can
easily pay cash for the measly expenses of health care.If the
American government was to offer a health care plan, available to all, and the
state of Utah prohibited a person from joining the national plan, I would
probably choose to opt out of Utah. Utah is a state where the individual is
subordinated to business interests, and business interests just don’t have
health care for people as an important concern.While conservatives
often tout individual freedom and liberty, they are often the most likely to
suppress liberty and freedom for the individual for the favor of business
Being able to opt out is important. There is a balancing act between Federal and
State control and when one goes to the extreme the other should respond.States have the ability to opt out of all kinds of Federal programs that
have the force of law behind them. This should be one of them.Socialized medicine is not going to work.
Slippery slope! And being one of those uninsured, it really angers me that the
state of Utah thinks that it can tell me what I can and cannot do in my own
life. If I choose to get participate in this new program from Washington, how
dare anyone including the state of Utah tell me that I can't participate if I
want to. Hypocrites!
You're exactly right that Utah is "often the most likely to suppress liberty and
freedom for the individual for the favor of business profits." One way Utah
suppresses individual liberty in favor of business profits is by imposing a
measly 5% tax on corporate profits. We could have more individual liberty if we
taxed corporations at 50%!
"And besides, all but three members of the House and two of the Senate have no
idea what Utahns want or need."Pray tell, what makes Utahns so
special that a senator from New York or a representative from California can't
understand their health care needs? Do we get special diseases? Do we want to
pay more for our health care instead of less?Could the real reason
for this ridiculous amendment be that the federal system will likely provide
coverage for abortion and other reproductive health services, and that
conservative Utahns want these services to be as unavailable as possible?
why not just drop out of the union? Americansalready believe Mormons are
not really Christians.Why not show them they are right and we do notbelieve in sharing? Republicanism is givingMormons a bad image.
Utahs' legislators are like utahs' church. We need protection from them, not by
them. One of the cornerstones of a proper health care system should be
portability. Coverage no matter where I roam. The people who want to deny us
this, our utah legislators, have publicly funded health care and are on the
payroll of pharmaceutical companies...do you suppose they have our best
interests in mind
This is insane. Utah thinks it is so special, so different, that it can ignore
the needs of the poor and the uninsured. If you want to opt out of being part
of America, start with all the federal money you love to accept. No more money
for research grants at Utah schools, no more money to support light rail, no
more money for I-15 reconstruction. No more money for Hill AFB. No more money
for immigration enforcement efforts. No more money for national parks or
forests. No more money for air traffic control and enhancing SL International.
No more money for Medicaire. Will the Utah system be able to match the federal
system? You are a bunch of hypocrites. This is appalling stuff.
Ultra knows what we want! All liberals know better.(Psst, remember
what the good book says about calling another a 'fool.')
DNews, do you _really_ think that while national political leaders are under
pressure from special interests that our state legislators are not?The facts are plain: The US ranks 37th in the world in terms of the overall
health of its citizens, yet no nation on earth comes even close to the
per-person dollars we spend on health care. Why? Because we stupidly rely on
private health insurance corporations for our health care.The plan
now being discussed in Washington is in reality an exceptionally mild dose of
badly-needed reform and deserves rapid approval.
Many of the posters have misunderstood Wimmers proposal. It is simply to
preserve free choice for Utahns to choose whether or not they want to buy into a
federal plan. Whats wrong with preserving choice? It is much
better than having a health system rammed down our throats that may make us
What if Utah has a better plan than the feds? Why would anyone want to be
prohibited from purchasing a better product for less money provided by the State
rather than the feds? I don't travel out of state for my health
care, and keeping it at the State level makes a lot of sense. I can see where
it would be more responsive to unique needs, and how it could be less expensive
that a bloated federal program where the nearest appeals location would be 3
states away. A federal program would be insulated from complaints
about benefit denials. The State of Utah is much more fiscally solvent than the
feds meaning our own health care would be better funded and less likely to go
broke like medicare. The more I think about it, the better a State
As "RH" alluded to, Utah is not unique in wanting to leave Obamacare on the
table. Some of the posters here on DNews would have you believe that Utah is
alone in this effort. Even IF the movement doesn't gain steam, it at least will
show D.C. that the STATES DO MATTER!I don't believe the "protests" that
are happening at town hall meetings are "staged", I believe the populace is
expressing their displeasure. Part of the reason they might be so upset is that
the mainstream media have been so pro-Obama that folks don't think they're being
"Pushing back against feds?"Where was this guy 8 and 4 years ago?
Regarding health care the battle lines are now starkly drawn. I had hoped this
wasn't so, but it's all too true. On one side we have the Obama administration
which wishes to make health care less a matter of profit maximization at the
patient's expense - that's where I am. On the other side we have the Republican
Party, the right wing talk show crackpots and media combines like Fox and
Bonneville International which seek to serve corporate interests first in health
care. I know who my friends are, and my enemies. You're no friend.
He wasn't elected yet...that's where he was.
Rep. Wimmer is a brilliant mind, and I can't wait to see what comes of this. I
agree we don't need the federal government controlling this for the styates.
There is NOTHING to commend in this Wimmer absurdity. The guy has the cheek to
take public-assisted health care for himself and his family at a fraction of the
cost to the rest of us. Does Wimmer understand the word "irony"?
If goverment programs are so bad then why dosen't Utah opt out of: the US Post
Office, Forest and Park service, Public schools, US Military, Etc, etc., there
are admittly some ineficiencies in goverment run programs, but goverment
programs are much better run, managed and a thousand times more honest than
private sector business, and government programs serve the american people as
citizens as a whole nation and not just the special interest groups that the
private sector serves for the sole purpose of profit for the wealthy big
business. Good government is good for the people and bad for the crooked private
business enterprise. And now you know why the crooks fight government programs.
Reasserting states' rights is the right thing to do. The pendulum has swung way
too far in the feds' favor since the Civil War. Utahns and others who love
freedom should attempt opt out of as many of these federal programs as possible.
And if socialists like UltraBob want to opt out of Utah, then good riddance.
@9:25 a.m"Where was this guy 8 and 4 years ago? "If you're
talking about The editor-in-chief of the Deseret News (who is presumably
responsible for this editorial drivel), he was the head of the Utah Republican
Party. He was complicit in the Republicans' trampling of the constitution. Now
that the other party is in control, he has suddenly had a change of heart about
the federal government. Hypocrisy at its finest.
How five or six liberals dominate the comment boards. Look, this is a great
idea. Rep Wimmer should be commended for his effort. The Obama worshipers need
to quit expecting something for nothing.
The plan is right on. I think that other states would follow Utah's lead If
there is a way to sidestep or refuse the dictates of the federal government
regarding their usurpations of a power not ennumerated to them in the
Consititution, we should seize it with both hands.I would disagree
with the editorialist (Bob Bernick?) however, about forcing everyone to have
health care. We should be free to handle the possibility of ill health and
accident in our own way. The government should leave us alone entirely. They do not have to ensure the security of all citizens from the
cradle to the grave. They cannot do that anyway no matter how many intrusive,
unconstitutional, and draconian, confisctory, freedom-quashing laws they pass.
Private charity and personal philanthropy are compatible with freedom, but such
government meddling is not. Neither is the confiscation of our income and
intrusions into our private bank accouts. All these are nothing less than
wilful deprivations of the most basic constitutional rights of private citizens
and seek unlawful searches and seizures of our assets.
The reason that we want to opt out of Obama care is that it is a matter of life
and death. (Unlike the post office, forest service, etc.) Sadly, we no longer
recognize our country.
The editorial says "Holding out on principle is one thing, but the well-being of
Utahns needs to be the primary concern." What principle is involved? The
Constitution lays out the foundational principles and the amendments add to
those. At the core of our nation is "We The People", not "me the person" or "Us
the State of Utah". The Constitutionally-founded government institutions
provide for our defense and welfare. Elected officials over-reach when THEY
determine the principles to be used for today's politics, whether it be F-22's
or health care or immigration reform. These complex issues must be determined
by the U. S. Government that we elected, which usually means both D&R
involvement. Mr. Wimmer may have a pet principle he wants to use to push his
agenda, but it seems pretty obvious he wants to deviate from the welfare of We
The People of the United States.
You almost got me, Almost. You are no patriot and you are no conservative. Nice
attempt to walk a fine line and sound like you know the constitution, but in the
end you are found wanting. NO conservative who is a REAL conservative would
advocate for a larger federal government. This was not what the founders said.
Read their works. Please show some class and honesty and admit what
you are, not "Conservative Patriot," but "Liberal Marxist."
is a hypocrit, plain and simple. He is given (by the legislature, themselves) a
Cadillac health insurance for part time work. His brother received care at the
Huntsman center (paid for by both charity and other insured people.) However,
he wants to be obstructionist in his actions. Principles, my eye.
Next, Wimmer and the DesNews will want Utah vets to be withdrawn from VA's
socialized medicine and get their own insurance.
I'm very surprised this paper is even considering supporting an individual
mandate. Requiring insurance for cars is one thing; insurance for a person's
health is another. I can choose whether or not to buy a car, I can't choose
whether or not I want to be alive (excluding suicide which 'aint gonna' happen).
Why not require everyone to buy jazz tickets or Honda Accords or diapers or
anything else? Because not everyone wants them. I don't want health insurance
because I'm healthy and can pay for any expenses out-of-pocket.
You said, "While conservatives often tout individual freedom and liberty, they
are often the most likely to suppress liberty and freedom for the individual for
the favor of business profits." What are you talking about? Your idea of
"liberty and freedom for the individual" is nothing more than using government
force to make others pay for your expenses. That is not "liberty and freedom"
but simple legalized robbery. Please explain to me why I should be
forced at the end of a gun to pay for something, anything, for you?! You seem to
think that if it comes from government then it is free. You would never think it
OK to come to my house and demand that I pay for your health care. But you sure
think it is OK for government to do it for you. You, sir, are a thief! And I am
ashamed to think that you are an American!!!
The Post office loses millions of dollars every year while their private
competitors make a profit by being efficient and well organized. The government
can't run anything well and why should it, it has no reason to do so, it has no
competition! Competition is the fuel of good business and efficiency! Obama's
plan does not have competition, that's why it is really really a bad idea for
I think that's wonderful that Utah politicians (even though they don't have more
skills than the average Utahn) are taking this stand. And I hope that the
proposal includes the statement that Utahns should not have to pay the tax hike
that will fund the ObamaCare Bill. I think that we should all read the Health
Care Bill, even though there are several versions and even though most of the
Congressmen and even Pres. Obama has not read it all. We should know what's
going on. The government will tell us how to raise our children on P. 838 of
one of the Bills. The administration ovbiously wants to run every aspect of our
lives and butcher the economy.
WHy are liberals so dead set against individual choice?THey are
agains school chpoice, vouchers,'They are agains health choice,
rthey want government to control all, and make aALL the decisions,They are against individuals securing their future, all must be part of Social
Security, where governnet takes from your paycheck, and basicly keeps it, but
if you are lucky you may get some of back at a very BAD interest rate.And there are many other examples of deprivation individual rights and
property, by liberals.SO WHY do liberals hate individuals and
choice,And ALL for BIG CENTERAL GOVERNMENT controlling everyone
I learned in my 4th grade history class that once Americans refused to allow
huge government control over their lives and were free people! As a result, we
had the great American revolution to throw off big government oppression! We
called these people patriots! Today, we have so many Americans who seem to
insist that the government control their lives, make all their choices and force
them to do the government's bidding. We used to call people like that slaves or
at least subjects! What has changed about Americans? How can a nation of
volunteer "slaves" ever be free again? Perhaps it is time for another
revolution? Throw the liberal confiscating, controlling, oppressive bums out of
office the next election! If you won't do it for yourself, do it for your
grandchildren! In the meantime, your government (Obama) is seeking more control
of YOU! Stand up for your rights! The right of self determination! The right to
keep your property! The right to bear arms! The right of self determination!
What kind of person would give that up for a "free" lunch from the government?
To refuse spending your children's money is not absurb, it commendable. Obama
is putting us further and further in debt, and one day the debt will have to be
repayed(China won't be as stupid as the people who lended money to California).
And when that does happen, guess whose tax dollars go up? YOURS! So, If you
want to make today better and not worry about tomorrow, pile on the debt. I
don't care if it's a good idea(it's not by the way), we can't afford it!
I am amazed how many americans want the Federal Goverment to take care of there
needs. I pay for my own health care. We are small business owners, it is
extremly expensive I will agree. We need reform, but NOT socialized medicine.
TORT REFORM. Do any of you understand the malpractice insurance doctors pay?
INSURANCE COMPANIES CROSSING STATE LINES. these are idea's for real reform. And
by the way: Ulta Bob, I am curious, do you not want business in America to
succeed? taxes at 50%, are you serious! When have you ever been employed by
someone just because they wanted to be nice..The incentive to stick your neck
out and supply jobs in America is called PROFIT!!!! I am so sick and tired of
people making business owners the bad guys!
If we want to exercise our freedom from tyranny and enjoy liberty where we can
make our own decisions on how to best serve our interests and spend the fruits
of our labor, we must wean ourselves from the notion that everything must be
provided by the government (federal, state or local).Wimmer's plan
is a good start."Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" does
not translate to a nanny state to wipe our noses and wash our hair and feed and
cloth use and buy us cars. At least is not not mean that until recent years.Give me back my FREEDOM!
I want the federal government to succeed because I don't trust the utah
What's so great about being a conservative? It is no better than being a
liberal. Give me the middle, where we can make practical, pragmatic decisions,
not based on some ill-understood ideology.
It is ridiculous to compare Auto insurance to health insurance. Driving a car,is
a privilege, not a right. If you are uninsured, you harm others financially. If
you lack health insurance, you choose to suffer the financial loss. Life,
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights. I do not want another tax in
the name of heath insurance!!!Mr. Wimmer and the Feds need to stay out of
... lie under the surface. You cannot legislate common sense and decency.
Beware of extremes on either side, be they liberal or conservative. Extremism
screams of selfish, narrow-minded, hidden agendas. Beware! Make a stand, yes,
for what you believe in. But realize that a person has made no moral choice if
the decision is not theirs. The more we require things as a government, the
more we give away our freedoms to someone with a hidden agenda. Be it Bush or
Obama, they both bow to the same powerful people in the shadows. Stop wrapping
yourselves in the false security of standing behind your political party! Start
electing moral people. Stop blaming "the other side" for all your woes! Big
government is bad, and Bush was just as bad as Obama is; the paint job looked
different, but under the hood they have a lot in common. Start thinking outside
the "blue" and "red" boxes, or this country will continue to sink fast in this
pathetic two-party system!
"If you are uninsured, you harm others financially."That applies to
health insurance as well as car insurance.
For those who think that it is individual choice - lets say that you have been
trying to get the on the state's medicaid program because you are poor - no job
due to layoff recently end up in the hospital, lots of tests, doctor's visits,
and one heck of a large medical bill to pay all because you were denied any
government type of medical insurance. Even the hospital's social services won't
help you. Yes there should be a nationwide health plan but with each
family or individual having the option of joining or not.My friend
has serious health issues and no insurance. She does however now have a large
medical bill and no insurance although she applied for medicaid and was
denied.So many think that medicaid is for the poor - it isn't
because even the poor don't qualify for it unless they are disabled, under 18 or
The country is socialist. The government owns banks, auto manufacturers, and
now medical. They confiscate wealth and regulate all activities. The die is
cast, the path is set. What will happen? For a number of years,
the government will stumble along, the people will suffer, there will be no
innovation, the standard of living will fall. The oligarchs will ride in limos,
and buy people at cheap prices.Then, of its own weight and
corruption, the government will fall and the assets will be sold off.
Not bad comments on the whole.I would make one adjustment. I would
say"The banks own the government" rather than the reverse. Who owes who?
You owe me, I OWN you.
Utah is so progressive!
Utah needs to change with the rest of the world. We are a part of this great
country, whether we want to think so or not. So if Utah decides to keep
its own health plan, and perhaps never try to cut down on carbon emmissions, or
develop alternative energy, etc . . . Well then we become a state of weird folks
who close themselves up within a protective wall, incapable of dealing with the
other parts of the world - whether it be in business or art or wherever. And
while the "evil" feds cannot bring anything in, the wall is so impermeable that
no "good" can get out. And we are left to suffocate in our own carbon
I know President Obama has said you can opt-out of the Federal Option and stay
on your private insurance (if the insurance company still exists and you, or
your employer can still afford it).What I wish I could opt-out of
was PAYING for the Federal Option (whether I use it or not).SURE you
can stay on your private insurance. But then you get to pay for BOTH! Sure I
want to start paying for TWO insurance plans, the one I use and the one I hope
my employer never forces me to use.
Did we learn nothing from splitting the school district? In the health care
scenario, the Federal Government is the rich east side district. Utah would end
up being the poor west side district that would have to RAISE TAXES to make up
for the money they would no longer get from the Feds.So this
legislator wants to raise my taxes for what? So we can "make a point" that Utah
is sovereign?Please! If you want to be a pouty little kid... do it
on your dime, not mine!
Me thinks, that Civil War is just around the corner!
What if? | 8:08 a.m. How dare you even wonder "what if" something
done locally could be BETTER than what the Great Obama proposed?Don't you know EVERYTHING Obama proposes is better than anything ANYONE could
ever do?Stop questioning. Just go back to sleep and accept whatever
the Feds offer you. Remember, whatever Obama says is best, resistence is
futile, you will be assimilated.
To 8:08: I support President Obama's health care initiative. I give him very
high marks for putting it all on the line to fix health care. This is one of
the reasons he ran for the presidency. He's a resilient and gutty guy. That
said, do not infer that I worship him. I have problems with him particularly in
the area of foreign policy. There are many of us who approve of what Obama is
trying to do with health care simply because we believe it must be done, not
because we are Obama groupies.
'How dare you even wonder "what if" something done on the national level could
be BETTER than what the Glenn Beck proposed?Don't you know
EVERYTHING Beck proposes is better than anything ANYONE could ever do?Stop questioning. Just go back to sleep and accept whatever Fox News Friends
tell you. Remember, whatever Glenn Beck says is best, resistence is futile, you
will be assimilated.'Just make sure you don't check for yourself,
though--the government might take over your computer! Yikes! Better to just
believe him; much safer that way.
Those on the left need to consider that though turning over healthcare decisions
to the government may serve them well today, politicaians like Obama (who are
willing to run the printing presses day and night to pay for this stuff) will
not be able to sustain this. We will eventually have to elect leaders who will
face the facts of life and either reduce what the government option will pay
for... OR raise taxes on more than just one class of Americans to pay for it.When a more budget concious administration takes over... your healthcare
benefits may be severely limited. But once you give this decision making power
over to the beurocrats you can't take it back. THEY control it.Do
you want an anti-abortion appointee running Health and Human Services and
deciding that the government option will not cover or allow abortions? Once you
give them the decision power waht are you going to do about it?Once
you give them this power they can choose to cover things you don't believe in OR
NOT COVER things you think are critical.No one can guarantee
Democrats will remain in 100% control of the government forever.
Utah has already done small businesses a tremendous dis-service with respect to
health care insurance, as it requires those with State contracts exceeding
several magnitudes to cover their employees AND dependents. We know which
legislators crafted and railroaded this bill, which is currently effective, and
which was only released within 90 days of implementation. Knowing that over 85%
of Utah jobs are provided by businesses with less than 50 employees, are we
going to stand by for MORE?
Switch a few words | 12:27 p.m. What has Glen Beck proposed?Lets see if you know what your talking about or if your just caught up
in the daily leftist talking points.
If we start opting out of everything that the govt. proposes, would it be ok if
I opt out of paying state and federal income taxes?
Perhaps, if the Utah Constitution is amended in this way the Federal Government
will opt-out of locating the IRS center in Ogden and the Air Force base in
Layton. Perhaps, the federal government would opt out of letting
the public onto land owned by the federal government.Perhaps, they
would opt out of providing NIH, NSF, DOE and other grants to Utah institutions
of higher education (the U, USU, and BYU all collect these dollars to fund jobs
here).Perhaps, they would opt out of paying money from the
Department of Education to fund the schools in Utah, which has a higher per
capita student population than almost any other state.Then they
wouldn't end up paying $1.20 to Utah citizens in wages, road building costs,
insurance costs, and such for every dollar they collect in taxes.Perhaps these opt-outers should opt out of driving on roads created with
Federal money? or getting Pell grants or federally guaranteed student loans?
Sounds like GWB | 2:35 p.m. thinks we should just be happy the Feds decide to
locate ANYTHING in Utah. And we should just shutup and be happy for the grants
they offer us.People like this will be happy about the new direction
of healthcare in the US. They will love the day when someone in government gets
to decide where new government built and operated hospitals will be built. Any
question where the government built hospitals will be built? With Utah's 4
votes it will probably be Utah and not LA, Chicago, NYC, etc. They will
probably build them in the more rural areas like Juab, Summit County, etc, not
in the big cities (where the votes needed to stay elected come from).I know, I'm just a cynic, but I really wonder how it will go when the
government eventually outlaws the private option and all decisions (of care,
what's covered, where to build government hospitals, etc) is made by people with
partisan interests and the usual "Bring the Pork home to MY STATE" attitude.
Utah will probably make out real well in this type of system.
I grew up in Utah. I live out of state now and visit the Deseret News site
every once in a while just to see what's going on. Some of the
comments on this site are unbelievable to me, not to mention the editorial
itself. Where were all of these self-described patriots when the
Bush Administration and the GOP Congress passed a huge new entitlement, the
Medicare prescription drug benefit that was largely a giveaway to pharmaceutical
companies? Where were they when the GOP and Bush increased the size of the
federal government from 18.4 to 20.9 percent of GDP? (Bill Clinton, on the
other hand, reduced the size of the federal government from 22.1 percent of GDP
to 18.4 percent of GDP.)
A la Reaganite Bruce Bartlett:In January, the Congressional Budget
Office projected a deficit this year of $1.2 trillion before Obama took office,
with no estimate for actions he might take. To a large extent, the CBO’s
estimate simply represented the $482 billion deficit projected by the Bush
administration in last summer’s budget review, plus the $700 billion
Troubled Asset Relief Program, which George W. Bush rammed through Congress in
September . . . Thus the vast bulk of this year’s currently estimated $1.8
trillion deficit was determined by Bush’s policies, not Obama’s....In my opinion, conservative activists, who seem to
believe that the louder they shout the more correct their beliefs must be, are
less angry about Obama’s policies than they are about having lost the
White House in 2008. They are primarily Republican Party hacks trying to
overturn the election results, not representatives of a true grassroots revolt
against liberal policies. If that were the case they would have been out
demonstrating against the Medicare drug benefit, the Sarbanes-Oxley bill, and
all the pork-barrel spending that Bush refused to veto.
re Inefficiency= Government | 6:17 p.m. Aug. 12, ____________________________________The overhead for medicare is
about 1%, the overhead for the average insurance company is about 30%. Would you
rather 99% of what you pay out goes to pay for care or 70%.Government is obviously the way to go.
JBob | 3:57 p.m.It seems rolls change when the party in the white
house changes.A year ago Republicans were saying, "Support the
president, don't protest and question his decisions". Now DEMOCRATS are saying,
"Support the president, don't protest and question his decisions". A year ago everything the president did was fine with one group, now
everything the president does is fine with the OTHER group.A year
ago you were unamerican if you protested the government's decisions. Now you
are unamerican if you protest government decisions, but it's the OTHER side
that's pointing the finger.It's weird but it seems like we've gone
through a 180 degree roll reversal in the past 8 months.
Way to twist everything to make it look the way you want.Bush is NOT
a congressmen, thus he WROTE NO LEGISTLATION, he "rammed" NOTHING through.you MAY blame him for signing,but PUT the REAL and HONEST
blame where it belongs:the LIBERAL DEMOCRAT controlled congress.It's no wonder the generally conservative and right leaning
population must push back against the uncaring and unhearing feds.Feds who NO LONGER believe they are the servant but the master.
I think the GOP and its ardent supporters are going through some collective
issues (see Wikipedia below on projection):Psychological projection
(or projection bias) is the unconscious act of denial of a person's [or group's]
own attributes, thoughts, and/or emotions, which are ascribed to the outside
world, like the weather, the government, a tool or another person or people.An example of this behavior might be blaming another for one's own
failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal
faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and redirect their libidinal
satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another.The LIBERAL DEMOCRAT congress did not pass the medicare prescription
drug benefit, and they were not in power for the lion's share of the expansion
of government under Bush--that was done by the GOP congress.
"The Feds"? Are you kidding me? Who are we, the Confederate States of America?
To those Mormons who would say yes, might I remind you of what the Doctrine and
Covenants clearly states about government:"We believe that all men
are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside,
while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such
governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus
protected, and should be punished accordingly."
True that, although the congress was roughly 50-50 and liberal republican leaned
slighly left.But "Amen" was NOT talking about that bill,and I am NOT sure that most republicans or conservatives were happy about it
either.BUT everyone thought something needed to done about
prescription drugs costs for the elderly.NO liberal democrats of the
congress ever spoke up against it or complained, meaning they must also be
complicit.That said, Bush was rather LIBERAL in the spending he
Its all about who gets the greatest slice of the monetary pie!Utah wants
to build up its own coffers at the expense of its citizens, but walking on soft
ground not to bite the hands that feeds to get the Federal portion. Either way
the poor and needy lose.Its not really about true health care for all, its
really about who gains when it comes to purse strings.Either way the
"doctors" are winners!
I have a question for you who so stridently criticize President Obama on health
care: Would you propose any health care or health care financing reforms; if so
what might they be?
That would be stupid to opt out of any Fed Health care and I oppose it! I see
our state only caring for the wealthy and business community at the determent of
Utah as a whole and the country as a whole.We would be tossing federal
dollars into the wind. Health care is something which must be tackled on a
federal level. We must look at the big picture. Our health care is already a
patch work of insurance regulations put forth by every state. There is too much
leeway and too many people have no access to coverage or are bankrupted or must
turn to raising money locally and through the churches. Health care will
continue to be too expensive and legislature will continue with "talk"
committees that won't produce anything and give us timetables like "10 years
away" for any reform at all, while preserving the corrupt insurance companies
bottom line. We need to join together as a nation to solve our ills, not break
away from the feds. What are we going to propose next in Utah? Breaking away
from the nation to form our own country?
Utah has a proposal for reform? First I've heard of this. Must not be all that
or it's policies would already have been adopted.I'd also like to
thank Utah for attempting to LIMIT my freedom of choice by opting out of a
program that would present a reasonable alternative to the bad joke that is the
While this government control argument is legit. It feels like the abortion
debate, there is no end to it. All the arguing in the world isn't going to
change very many opinions on the matter. Those debates will continue but in the
mean time why don't we try to find some common ground( for some there will never
be common ground, but for most of us I think we can). I am confident we can have
some health care reform without the "patriots" feeling overly controlled and the
"free healthys" getting what they want.Instead of trying to fix
everything all at once which isn't going over very well in the republic why
don't we take smaller steps first like tort reform and a level playing field
with insurance across state lines? Those two measures alone would make a huge
difference and not put us farther in the hole at a time when we need to be much
more conservative with our spending. Yes we need some sort of health care
reform, but we have as a nation much bigger financial problems on the horizon
that will make any reforms a moot point.
@JeppsonThere are proposals out there that many of us could stomach or
support that have to do with rolling back regulations on health that contribute
up to 30% of the overall costs. We also would support tort reform, saving
another $200-$500 billion annually. There are regulations that need to be
looked at at the local/state levels too. Those who oppose Obamacare do it on
principle (not the gov'ts bailiwick or expertise, and heck no on surrending so
much control to an unwieldy and unresponsive ogre) and economics (CBO says 'no
way' that cost estimations are realistic.) Sure, health care can use reform,
but the first step is to cut the fed gov't regulations. Completely opposite of
what Obamacare is doing. Health care includes a morass of networks and parties,
and more complicated than any of us, as well as congressmen, can figure out
completely. We can be grateful in some respects that the conversation is
on-going, but have to hope Obama learns to exit stage left and let experts and
stakeholders figure it out. BLUF: There is no crisis and we CAN afford to take
the time to do it right!
I would like to see Utah refuse to accept the Federal Health Care that is being
offered.It is too extreme, and controlling!! Terrible for care of
the elderly! Like the fellow from England said "Why would we want this kind of
Federal Health Care when we have the best health care on the planet! If it isn't broke, don't fix it!!
The number of Americans that say it IS broken is directly proportionate to the
number of Utahns that say it isn't. Try again.