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Readers' forum: 'Pride' an oxymoron

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  • No Standard of Decency
    June 11, 2009 1:18 a.m.

    The publication of this letter tells us more about the owner of this newspaper than the letter's author tells us about reality. To be sure, the world is full of those who are misinformed, ignorant, and bigoted. The shame is that this newspaper would choose to print these words. The LDS Church and the gospels are founded upon love, not the bigotry of this letter. The day will arrive when even this Church will respect the love of every neighbor.

  • Linguist
    June 11, 2009 4:53 a.m.

    I am a gay man, and "pride" has always struck me as something of a misnomer for what the Gay Rights Movement is about.

    Rather, it is about the removal of the incredible stigma and animus that society has placed upon good, decent, innocent people who realize, usually at a young age, that they are gay.

    It's about no longer being ashamed of what is essentially a morally-neutral trait. It's not good. It's not bad. It's no worse than being color blind or being short. It just is.

    I am not promiscuous. I am not at risk of HIV. I have a strong sense of what is good and what is evil, and I live my life with a strong moral compass guiding it. I am in a loving, committed relationship for many years.

    That the letter writer feels I pose a threat to anyone suggests just why the "pride" movement arose--to counteract the demonization of good people by some who simply don't seem to know better, but who should.

    Gay "pride" in an essentially neutral trait that no one chooses? Maybe not "pride."

    But "shame"? That would be far more inappropriate.

  • the pointless rampages go on
    June 11, 2009 6:12 a.m.

    The author seems to be under the impression that if you rampage on with the same lies long enough people may just start to believe them. These same false claims have been made hundreds of times on these threads and shown to be baseless as many times. This is beyond silly at this point. Its like talking to a brick wall. The truth is easily accessible for anyone that really wants to know the truth at this point it is just willful ignorance.

  • Joseph
    June 11, 2009 6:33 a.m.

    Reynolds amazes me with his insecurity. I'm sure that someone else's sexuality threatens his. He needs to attack someones choice rather than be secure in his own. Reynolds, live and let live.

    Marriage and the family appear to be more affected by the straight community with their abuse and divorce. Heterosexual couples choose not to have children all the time, is that a threat to the family?

    EVERY gay person that I know was born to a straight family. TO me that doesn't jibe with what Reynolds is fearing.

  • By all means...
    June 11, 2009 6:41 a.m.

    By all means we don't wish to encourage monogamy amongst homosexuals!

    But, is alcoholism, STDs, and gambling problmes amongst heterosexuals roots in the people they love?

  • jr
    June 11, 2009 6:58 a.m.

    I know of a gay man that is raising his 5 children because the mother is incapable, these children are well rounded. He even takes them to LDS church etc and is President of the PTA in his school area. What damage is he doing to his family and community? He's a lot better father than many that are married to a woman

  • george hofer
    June 11, 2009 7:10 a.m.

    Do they teach you in church to be this angry and spiteful?

  • All
    June 11, 2009 7:21 a.m.

    Every gay person in town gets up every morning to scan the opinion pages. Names like linguist only makes me more ill. I think there is an organized front by the gay community to challenge all letters and posts to the DN.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 7:22 a.m.

    It's true. Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, along with lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, and envy.

    Guilty as charged. Clearly, we gay citizens need to cease feeling pride in who we are.

    Now onto the other six: lust gluttony, sloth wrath and envy! Sin hunters, man your stations. We're huntin' heretics!

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 7:27 a.m.

    It may be beyond some folks comprehension, but the comments written in this letter are exactly why there's a gay-rights movement. Enough is enough.

  • Right on Reynolds
    June 11, 2009 7:43 a.m.

    Right on Reynolds. Thanks for having the courage to call it like it is. I only wish they taught those things in church George to balance out what is being fed to our children. Perhaps they teach that in the faith you belong to.

  • @All
    June 11, 2009 7:48 a.m.

    Are you for real? Your right its a grand conspiracy, dont worry we already know how you are and where you live and we will be sending you decapitated toaster.....please get over yourself.

  • Ernest T. Bass
    June 11, 2009 7:55 a.m.

    Please tell us how gay marriage has a negative impact on humanity, children or a family.
    The right-wing religious wing nuts will ruin this country.

  • WC
    June 11, 2009 8:13 a.m.

    Ignorance.

  • PS
    June 11, 2009 8:14 a.m.

    Deseret News - this letter is homophobic and hateful. It is in lines with a racist letter of the 50's. It is shameful you would publish such filth.

  • Disgusted
    June 11, 2009 8:16 a.m.

    DNews - have you no shame? No standards?

    Foaming-at-the-mouth bigots like Mr. Reynolds are a dime a dozen, especially here in Utah, and I'm not surprised by his rant.

    What _does_ surprise me, and disgust me, is that the folks at the DNews feel that such childish garbage is worthy of ink and paper.

    Are there no DNews staffers who wonder what on Earth they're doing with their lives when they see what kind of hate-filled tripe their employer publishes?

  • Bucky Jay
    June 11, 2009 8:16 a.m.

    Reynolds says, "Same-sex marriage is a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God."

    What's dangerous are those individuals who think they know the law of God and rebuke those who dissagree with them.

    Reynolds, you are keeping up the proud tradition of an intolerant and unempathetic world view that contributes to war, genocide, hate crimes, etc.... "the golden rule" wasn't lost on you eh?

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 8:17 a.m.

    "Can there be pride in the high rate of alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide among homosexuals?"

    I will fully admit there is a higher rate of these things in the gay community - but did you ever stop to think it might be because of the hatred and bigotry espoused by people like you?

    I know many gay people who have been kicked out of their homes as teenagers - no support from family and certainly no help from the community - like you and this paper.

    YOU are the problem. BIGOTS like you.

    And I don't go around saying that people from Provo are "a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God." But maybe I should.

  • wrong again
    June 11, 2009 9:15 a.m.

    "Same-sex marriage is a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God."

    Wrong Reynolds. You've been listening to too much Limbaugh, Beck and Fox.

    Hatred for your fellow man is "a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God."

  • ?!
    June 11, 2009 9:16 a.m.

    The Taliban would agree with this letter.

  • Pearly Gates
    June 11, 2009 9:28 a.m.

    When you meet St Peter at the Pearly Gates, be sure to show him (with great pride!) your hate filled letter of bigotry.

  • @no standard of decency
    June 11, 2009 9:38 a.m.

    "when EVEN this church will respect the love of every neighbor." Wow, what do you know of "this church" and love of neighbors? I have seen so much good and love spread by "this church" that it leaves me amazed! "this church" has done and will continue to do more with its financial resources for the good of mankind than any other organization on the face of the earth, all while the naysayers keep brayeing negativity at the miracle of it all.

  • Sally in England
    June 11, 2009 9:53 a.m.

    I think that this letter must be a joke, know body really thinks this way, surely! Reynolds has just made up the most controversial letter and sent it out just to get a reaction.....right? PLease tell me that I am right! Anyone?

  • Re "No Standard of Decency | 1:1
    June 11, 2009 9:54 a.m.

    No Standard of Decency | 1:18 a.m.

    The DMN publishes opinions that I find offensive all the time. Try to grow up and be more mature about it. It's just one person's opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but try to deal with it.

    The decision to publish this letter, while offensive to many, does not tell you anything about the ownership of the paper.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 10:26 a.m.

    "this church" has done and will continue to do more with its financial resources for the good of mankind than any other organization on the face of the earth,"

    Show me where they loved the gays that were stricken with AIDS. I have never seen where the church helped those people financially or gave to help find a cure.

    Do you have to fit into the LDS model to get financial aid from the LDS or do they help all God's children without judging?

  • NOT ABOUT HATE
    June 11, 2009 11:02 a.m.

    gay supporters always like to jump to the HATE word anytime anyone questions their twisted behavior. They love to label anyone as a HATER who disagrees with their wrong minded view of the world. By falsely labeling people gays think it helps to further their cause - which it doesn't. The reality is people don't HATE gays. People do disagree that homosexuality is normal and should be given special rights. Democracy is all about debate and democratic process and it is the gay activist movement who was doing all the hating and abusing after prop 8 passed in California by the democratic vote of the people.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 11:33 a.m.

    It's beginning to get harder and harder to find something nice to say about the Right.
    I must thank them all for reminding me to keep focusing on compassion.
    Father forgive them - they know not what they do.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 11:37 a.m.

    "People do disagree that homosexuality is normal and should be given special rights."

    I am gay and I admit that being gay is not normal. Neither is being left-handed or red headed.

    Being different or abnormal is not a reason to deny anyone the same rights that you have.

    What "special rights" do you think gays want?

  • Naruto
    June 11, 2009 11:58 a.m.

    Judging people is also against the word of God, and a danger to everyone.

  • 5N
    June 11, 2009 12:02 p.m.

    I do not see 'hate' in this letter and I'm not apologizing. Gays use the label of 'hate' towards others who disagree with them, so they don't have to look at the truth about themselves. Its' called 'silencing your conscience'. Instead of owning their own filth, they deny it by pointing the finger at others to make themselves feel better. I saw this letter as nothing more than a display of truth for all to see. If gays have nothing to hide, they would have no problem with it.

  • All sin is prideful
    June 11, 2009 12:05 p.m.

    Pride is a negative word that denotes arrogance and an attitude of 'entitlement'. It is the handle that fits all sins.

    The more egregious sins are accompanied by the greater pride. I can hardly believe the hubris that accompanies the haughty speeches of homosexual activists. I'm glad the God of Nature rained hard on its local parade of arrogance.

    Yet pride comes before a fall. I would that homosexuals would change their ways. Most of us would, I believe, do not have a vindictive feeling when another recognises a fault and abandons it.

    Do you see the look of arrogance on the face of gangsters, and murderers when you see their mug shots on the local news? They have, I suppose, to nurture a feeling of superiority to enable them to go through with their total disregard of the rights of others. Those "rights" do not entitle anyone to change the meanings of basic words like "marriage" or to force the majority to accept the strange desires of a certain minority who wants to turn all values upside down.

  • Realist
    June 11, 2009 12:08 p.m.

    Reynolds makes a great point! I know a gay man who left his wife with 5 children under the age of 9 and moved to SF to find himself. 7 years later still no word from him or a dime to his kids......You out there TIM!

  • BTW
    June 11, 2009 12:14 p.m.

    You need some serious help, I feel sorry for you."This Church" needs to do more to help people like this be more tollerant.

  • re:jackhp
    June 11, 2009 12:30 p.m.

    you're confused. Disagreement is not hate. This letter never once used the word "hate" nor did it imply any hate toward gays. The letter rightly pointed out the fallacy of the politically correct term "gay pride" and how homosexuality does indeed produce sky high suicide rates as well as AIDS and other infectious disease along with the severe social ills that accompany it. These are not opinions - these are facts and they have nothing at all to do with hate. It is convenient but also childish to label someone as a hater just because they disagree with your point of view.

  • Confused
    June 11, 2009 12:33 p.m.

    Anon 10:26

    Better go do some research before you spew your anti LDS garbage. Whenever there is a disater the LDS church is there(even before the Red Cross) with clothing, blankets, food and water.

    The LDS sponsers missions for people who build schools, teach locals hygene, drill wells for fresh water, etc... Again Service my friend.

    As for the HIV, The LDS church has given money to research facilities to help find a cure.

    I find it highly amusing that you call anyone that questions Gays as "HATERS" and yet, you spewed HATE out for one organization that truly does help others in time of need.

    Do the research and open that closed mind of yours.

  • @REALIST
    June 11, 2009 12:36 p.m.

    Straigh men do it too. My dad left my mom for another woman and I haven't spoke to him since. Gays and straigts both do it. And it's bad either way.

  • Confused
    June 11, 2009 12:36 p.m.

    If this country truly does have "Freedom of Speach" then why are so many bashing one person right to say what he feels?

    I have been at the "Pride" parade and quite honestly was offended by what I saw and heard.

    Just like the gays, the Straight people have a right to express their opinions..

    Is not this what makes our country great?

  • if you want to talk hate..
    June 11, 2009 12:39 p.m.

    if you want to talk hate then look no further than the HATE and WRONGS that have been heaped against Ms California by GAYS and their supporters. They finally took the crown off her head and all of this because she didn't agree with their twisted politically correct version of the world. Yes, let's talk about HATE but let's also put it in its proper focus and identify who is REALLY the haters and hypocrites -THE GAY ACTIVISTS!!!!

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 12:56 p.m.

    Confused,

    No one is bashing anyone's right to say anything. No one has a right to have their hateful opinions published in a newspaper. And if they do get them published, they certainly don't have the right to not get blowback.

    Confused? Yes, you truly are.

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 12:58 p.m.

    Anon 12:39 p.m.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. She lost her crown because she didn't do her job. It had nothing at all to do with her opinion about same-sex marriage.

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 1:08 p.m.

    Nice! Questioning whether this letter lives up to the standards this paper supposedly purports is grounds to be cenosored. Thank you D-news for proving my point!

  • @jackhp
    June 11, 2009 1:15 p.m.

    Read between the lines. They were looking for a reason to take the crown. This has everything to do with her gay marriage position.

  • avt
    June 11, 2009 1:42 p.m.

    Gay pride is indeed the opposite of what homosexuality is. I have a homosexual son. We have loved him without conditions, but the cost to him, his ex-wife, and my wife and I has been enormous. I have contemplated suicide, because there are no answeres from science or the LDS church. My wife and I, my sons ex wife and others have suffered for years with depression and anxiety because of the spriritual consequences of what happened. The writer of this letter is right, the truth is homosexuality is a serious sin, which causes widespread unhappiness, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and sometimes leads to death. My son is on his 2nd partner, if you exempt a period of time when he had hundreds of sexual partners. We all feared he or his wife may have aids. My heart still goes out to this community and my son, but there is nothing happy or "gay" about homosexuality.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 2:19 p.m.

    "I find it highly amusing that you call anyone that questions Gays as "HATERS" and yet, you spewed HATE out for one organization that truly does help others in time of need."

    I am anonymous at 10:26. There is not one word about "hate or haters" in my post. Are you reading things into it that are not there? All I asked for is for you to show me where the LDS church gave to help those with AIDS or gave to help find a cure.

    You have told me that they did, but I still have not seen where or when. Did they? Please cite to whom and when. Thanks.

  • @if you want to talk hate..
    June 11, 2009 2:26 p.m.

    "They finally took the crown off her head and all of this because she didn't agree with their twisted politically correct version of the world."

    Miss California was fired by Donald Trump for not showing up to her assigned appointments and for not keeping her part of a contract. Gays had absolutely no control over this at all.

    Talk about twisting facts to prove a point. Brother! You take the cake.

  • All sin is prideful
    June 11, 2009 2:46 p.m.

    I think you maybe on to something, are you able to turn that same lens on your own behaviors coming on here and passing judgement on the homosexual community as sinners to full of pride. You have heard the old saying when ever you point at someone there are three fingers pointing back at you right?

    You may want to consider letting go of your sinful pride and let god decide what is sin.

  • @if you want to talk hate..
    June 11, 2009 2:50 p.m.

    right it had nothing to do with her refusal to honor her contractual agreements including not showing for scheduled appearances. I guess taking personal responsibilities does not apply to the Christian right.

  • @12:30 p.m.
    June 11, 2009 2:53 p.m.

    being gay produces AIDS, alcoholism, suicide? really? show me the causal relationship. What evidence do you have of cause and effect?

  • @1:15 p.m.
    June 11, 2009 2:54 p.m.

    you mean read into it what I read into it right? or do you actually have proof of your claims.

  • @you want to talk about hate
    June 11, 2009 3:01 p.m.

    Maybe you should go back and read the articles pertaining to Miss California. You would first realize that Donald Trump gave her a second chance and she squandered it. Second of all, I saw nothing saying a single gay person had anything to do with the decision to de-crown her. She made her bed, now she has to sleep in it.

    I agree it was a boneheading thing for whats his face Perez to say the crap he has said, but his opinion had nothing to do with that situation.

  • Spaghedeity
    June 11, 2009 3:05 p.m.

    Interesting... I recently submitted a post that was published then removed, so I can only assume was deemed offensive to the admins.

    The post was simply a response to many of the above comments which claimed that what is being said doesn't constitute "Hate".

    I rephrased some comments almost word for word, but instead of targeting homosexuals, I directed it towards Mormons.

    Apparently the comments above are acceptable attacks against homosexuals, but when said against Mormons they are too inflammatory to post.

    Hypocrites.

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 3:18 p.m.

    avt,
    Sounds to me the LDS Church is more likely to be the cause of your unhappiness than is his being gay.

    Would everyone have been happier in the long run if your son had lived openly as a gay man in a long-term, monogamous same-sex "marriage" rather than being pressured into getting married to a woman and having kids? Be honest . . .

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 3:46 p.m.

    re 2:53 p.m.

    You're going to have to define "causal" for these people. They truly have no logical reasoning ability whatsoever.

  • jackhp
    June 11, 2009 3:55 p.m.

    Spaghedeity,
    Get used to it. I've been railing on these guys for their selective and biased censorship almost since this forum came into being. Not much has changed.

  • mark
    June 11, 2009 4:27 p.m.

    Looks like the bigots on the D-news editorial board are at it again, imagine deciding to print this letter.

  • @246pm
    June 11, 2009 4:31 p.m.

    God already "decided" and made it clear what is sin and homosexuality is sin. You can read that in the Old or New Testament any day of the week.

  • Removed posts
    June 11, 2009 4:40 p.m.

    I have had several post removed, including posts that were too blunt about homosexuals.

    I think it depends who's on at the time. Best time for conservatives seems to be during the day, night time for those honoring homosexuals and atheists.

    There is more hate, more insults, directed at conservatives than others, and dilike of homosexuality does not constitute hate.

  • @4:31
    June 11, 2009 4:46 p.m.

    Your argument is so flawed it is hilarious. Until you follow the Old Testament to the letter, then you have NO place using it to judge other people. And on that topic, who translated the Old Testament? And do you only use the Old Testament because it has the only "translated" reference to homosexuality?

    After reading it myself, I could see how many of the so called "homosexuality is wrong" passages could be contrued many different ways.

    But I am sure I am just justifing my evil view, and you will not be disuaded about the 'sin' I am committing.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 5:00 p.m.

    @246pm | 4:31 p.m. June 11, 2009
    "God already "decided" and made it clear what is sin and homosexuality is sin. You can read that in the Old or New Testament any day of the week."

    God ALSO decided that the judging would be his. He did tell you not to judge unless you wanted to be judged with the same amount of knowledge that you judged others. You better make sure you know EVERYTHING there is to know about how people become homosexual before you start throwing judgements around, shouldn't you?

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 5:26 p.m.

    The freaky Religious Right never quits do they?
    I wonder if they all own guns and know the Holocaust Museum killer?

  • intelligence gap
    June 11, 2009 6:23 p.m.

    what is really funny here is that not one person seems to have picked up on the fact that the letter writer clearly has no understanding of the word oxymoron.

  • Linguist
    June 11, 2009 6:37 p.m.

    "All" wrote, "...Names like linguist only makes me more ill. I think there is an organized front by the gay community to challenge all letters and posts to the DN..."

    With respect, I really am a linguist.

    As for being part of some "organized front," no, I belong to absolutely no gay organizations. None.

    But when I wake up and read the newspaper and have my wonderful, committed, monogamous relationship with the person I love called "a danger to humanity, the family, children and is against the law of God," I feel a moral obligation to speak up and tell the truth. And, again with respect, none of that could be further from the truth.

    I am not an alcoholic, have never taken drugs, am not suicidal, and am at lower risk of HIV infection than any heterosexual who is not in a committed relationship. What would you have me do: nod and say, "Oh yes, this person who doesn't know me from Adam obviously knows more about me and my life than I do""?

    Sorry. I do not know whether this writer "hates" or not. But he doesn't know the first thing about my life.

  • Linguist
    June 11, 2009 6:48 p.m.

    avt wrote, "...My heart still goes out to this community and my son, but there is nothing happy or "gay" about homosexuality."

    With respect, gay people are just people. We live our lives, often against enormous odds, given the stigma assigned to innocent gay people by elements of society.

    I spent many years struggling, trying to understand why God didn't answer my calls for Him to "change" me and make me heterosexual. For the record, I remained celibate the entire time.

    I was very lonely, and very unhappy. My prayers were eventually answered. Through introspection, observation and much reflection, I came to the conclusion that, although my sexual orientation was apparently fixed, that didn't mean I couldn't live a good, moral and full life.

    I fell in love. We have been together for many years. He was there for me during the saddest days, when first my father and then my mother died. He is also with me on the happiest days, including the day when we were married in the most wonderful religious ceremony ever.

    I am blessed. And that give me great joy. I wish for you as much joy in your life.

    Peace.

  • Anonymous
    June 11, 2009 7:12 p.m.

    to 1:18
    You are soooooooooooooooooo wrong. It was founded on polygamy. No moral standards whatsoever!

  • Sally in England
    June 12, 2009 6:24 a.m.

    To AVT, I think the reason you and your family have been so depressed about your son being gay, is your reaction to it. Had you of embraced your son's sexualty from the beginning, he maybe wouldn't have felt the need to marry a girl and have children. This is the problem, many LDS boys are what they are, gay. But parents and church leaders make them feel inadequate if they don't follow the norm. Mission, temple marriage etc. The problem I am afraid is you. My brother is gay and has known he was gay since he was 15. As a family we accepted this and we accepted the few partners that he has had over the years, no more or no less than any hetrosexual young man. Tere has never been any depression in our family about his homosexuality infact we never think about him being straight or gay, he just is who he is, a successful university professor. I hate to say this, but you as his parents have let him down, not the other way around.

  • Provo Utah?
    June 12, 2009 10:43 a.m.

    Consider the source from whence this letter came.

  • RE: Anonymous | 5:00 p.m. June 1
    June 12, 2009 5:10 p.m.

    Your attempt to use scripture is wrong on two points:

    POINT 1:

    Judging is NOT wrong. What Jesus gave us was warning that YOu will be judged by the same measure you Judge by, this is neccessary so YOU are NOT also guilty of the sin of hypocrisy. So, judge righteously.


    POINT 2:

    Scriptures from the NEW testament (the_OLD_testemant_is_quite_clear_to_God_it_is_an_abominaton) clearly show that like any and all immorality, immoral behavior including practicing homosexuality, is a sin:


    Romans 1:26
    For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
    1:27
    Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

    1 Cor. 6:9
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    NOTE: Effeminate is the Greek word malakov meaning...
    "soft, soft to the touch/ of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness"

  • Where is the love / Mormon Pride
    June 15, 2009 6:52 a.m.

    Change the name to any other group and this would have never been printed. If it had, even more readers would be outraged at the claims.

    The "Days of 47 Parade" is similarly the "Mormon Pride" parade. Yet no one complains about them celebrating their culture and contributions.

    Mr. MacKay can find what he wants to find. Personally, my husband and I are:
    15+ years in a committed/monogamous relationship
    No alcoholism.
    No drug use.
    No Suicide.
    No AIDS or any STD.

    Mr. MacKay has no facts proving that Marriage Equality is a danger to anyone, in fact treating everyone equalty benefits all of society.

    Whomever your god that promotes discrimination and prejudice, it is yours, and the government should not be denying fellow citizens of their civil rights and government granted benefits based upon another citizen's religious choice.

    Where is the love in this letter? Utterly absent.

  • Brad
    June 15, 2009 8:29 a.m.

    It amazes me that the letter writer can decry the "alcoholism, drug abuse, and suicide" among gays but cannot pause to even consider that the condemnation and marginalization of gays that he advocates might just have something to do with that.

  • Arbitrary
    June 15, 2009 10:22 a.m.

    Gay people are not asking for special rights, just the same ones you have and please don't give me that tired tripe of they have the same rights because they can marry someone of the opposite sex.

    You all have the right to marry the one you love. This is the right that is being denied to gay folks. This is all they want.

    In some countries your spouse is picked at birth. Imagine having to marry someone you don't love and worse, you are repulsed by him or her.

  • HappyHeathen
    June 15, 2009 1:49 p.m.

    I have gay friends. Some are committed like Linguist (6:48 p.m. June 11, 2009) and some are single still struggling with how they should proceed with their life. Pretty much the same story as the general population. None of them fit the description of the original letter writer. And I care for them just as much as I do for my straight friends because they are deserving. I wouldnt want them to change who they are because they didnt chose to be gay.


  • Singular Point
    June 15, 2009 3:04 p.m.

    If gays weren't hated by Christians, and other religious entities, perhaps the alcohol consumption and suicide rates would be lower.

    They aren't drastically low anyway.

    There's more straight women than gay men than AIDs.

    There are more straight men, and women, even children, who consume alcohol than gays.

    If you understand ratios, you would see why.

    The face of Christianity, as seen by me at least, is demonic in nature. All you talk of is sin, and how you hate such and such.

    If you were true to your cause, you would thank god for his creation, instead of crying out with hatred, or even worse pity.

    I'm trying as hard as I can to stay neutral here, but the anti-gay view of Christians isn't fair.

    We would respect your place, if you respect ours.

  • re - @246pm | 4:31 p.m.
    June 15, 2009 5:26 p.m.

    ["God already "decided" and made it clear what is sin and homosexuality is sin. You can read that in the Old or New Testament any day of the week."]

    pls explain when you sat down with God and He tol you this. Inquiring minds want to know. Was this over coffee?

    or did you just read it in an old book - ie - your "Old or New Testament", which has unknown origins and may in fact be of fictious authorship.

    Your assumption that if it's in the bible then it's God's word is simply that - your assumption.

    Pls stick to facts, of which you have very few.

  • Jazz Fan
    June 15, 2009 5:43 p.m.

    You forgot to add they are all Laker fans. Pathetic!

  • Anonymous
    June 15, 2009 6:25 p.m.

    Unbelievable! Is Utah a third world country?