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'Party' at Capitol protests Buttars

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  • Why is it that when...
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:22 p.m.

    "activists" throw a party, (could be 5 people, could be 500) it is covered extensively by the news media? Yet when normal people throw a party, nary a word is said about it.

  • Buttars
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:29 p.m.

    Only Buttars could cause this type of ruckus. Is Buttars Backlash the Musical up next? I'm waiting for the Southern Poverty Law Center to crown him a "racist threat" to the country...
    he'll be in good company...Colorado City and the FLDS.

  • Breck
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:34 p.m.

    It's too bad that such a small percentage of the population gets so much play in the media everytime they get offended. What's offensive is that the LGBT crowd want to take away the rights of those who elected him by demanding his resignation. Apparently, they think the first amendment only applies to them.

  • Party on!
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:34 p.m.

    I'd rather party with the gays than scowl with the Ruzicka-bots!

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:40 p.m.

    The liberal left is sick. Appoint Buttars King and we could have a moral America!

  • Mark
    Feb. 28, 2009 4:55 p.m.

    This is wonderful.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 5:10 p.m.

    I don't know when Aaron Falk stopped by the Buttars-palooza rally but his count of the crowd was far off reality. At about 2 p.m., when the largest crowd was present, there were between 1000 and 1200 people present. I understand the Deseret News is undergoing some debate about the direction its news coverage. Hopefully, one of the choices isn't making things up.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 5:15 p.m.

    rolls eyes and moves on.

  • Hey, Message board censor:
    Feb. 28, 2009 5:26 p.m.

    I hope you are hourly, not on salary. You are going to get rich off of this article.

  • Rich
    Feb. 28, 2009 7:21 p.m.

    I was there, and there were at least a thousand people there.
    I hate to break the this news to all the conservative "religious" readers of this paper, but the LGBT movement is a civil rights issue, and you all stand on the wrong side of the issue.
    MLK marched so that we all have equal rights, and here we are in 2009 still trying to implement equality.

    I know where I stand, I just hope the Mormons wake up before they hurt more people.

  • East Coast LDS
    Feb. 28, 2009 7:40 p.m.

    Drag queens sell newspapers!

  • Great Country
    Feb. 28, 2009 8:04 p.m.

    Mormons this mormons that, look at yourselves if you want to talk about hate. The mormons just like any other religion have their rights too!!! Majority of Americans are with the churches on this one. The mormons are a different people, but much more honest and hold higher standards than most people in this corrupt world. All of you Activists are annoying!!! You don't want equal rights, you want preferential treatment on everything. Your reactions to Proposition 8 speak volumes to your characters. We, Americans, also need to wake up to the socialism that is taking place. Nationalization of everything, just what we need, more government power. The people are what matter, not the corrupt government system. We all need to stand as one voice and not allow our country go down this path of communism. It looks good at first, but just wait if it keeps going. Russia, here we come.

  • Breck
    Feb. 28, 2009 8:23 p.m.

    You think it's just Mormons that are against government legitimizing the LGBT agenda? Ballot iniatives against gay marriage have won every time except once, usually by 60% or more. What irritates the common sense majority is how liberals, who can't get laws changed legitimately, try to do end-runs around the constitution by manipulating the judicial branch. In this day and age the majority's rights get trampled on more than the minority's.

  • @Breck
    Feb. 28, 2009 8:38 p.m.

    I tried to resist but I have to ask. Do you really know that little about our form of government or do you just hope the rest of us dont know anything about our form of government?

  • Breck
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:18 p.m.

    Please enlighten me on where I'm wrong. Judicial activism is unconstitutional, if that's what you're referring to. Since you chose not to be specific, I'll assume that you're the one lacking in the knowledge of our form of government.

  • Equal Rights
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:30 p.m.

    As one of those hateful biggot Mormons I say we as Latter Day Saints be kind to everyone and show commpassion to the gays as President Monson asked us to. But never let your guard down in the battle for freedom and saving the constitution. Everyone should be treated fair and if gays don't like our religion they are free to join another and leave us alone.
    Butters words were taken out of context. He was refering mostly to the extremist group. Like the one that disrepectfully protested at President Hinkleys funeral. I think any good gay person would be embarrased by this evil group of people. But the angry mob who threatened to burn the LA Temple down are out of control also and should pay fro their crimes.

  • Idaho Girl
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:46 p.m.

    Maybe you all missed this, but the gay rights legislation that Buttars was protesting is actually backed by the Mormon church. Mormons want gays to have more rights in Utah. They just don't want them to get married.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:53 p.m.

    The SL Tribune reported that over a 1000 people attended. The Des News estimated it at '300 or so'. Why such a discrepancy?

  • We're all so over this...
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:54 p.m.

    Really??? We're still talking about this?

    This topic is getting so old.

    Keep milking it--media--maybe you can drag it out for another year.

    Don't you have any real news?

  • Hey "Equal Rights"
    Feb. 28, 2009 9:56 p.m.

    I was at the protests at the LA mormon temple. No one threatened to burn it down. The protests were loud and angry but completely non-violent. You're putting a rumor out there that has absolutely no truth to it.

  • The problem is
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:01 p.m.

    Mormons don't want them to get married. Not in the courthouse, not in the park, not by a sea Cap in a boat. no walking down the isle, no standing before a justice of peace. no flowers, no rings, no something borrowed,blue, old or new.
    The mormons want to control everything. WHy can't the be content in saying Gays will never ever get married in our church buildings, in our temples or by our clergy. and be done with it. Why are they such an unpleasant bunch?

  • @The problem is
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:11 p.m.

    Very well said.

  • ya think?
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:15 p.m.

    Why do mormons think gays want is to join the mormon church?. Perhaps all the gay folks want is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Is that really so unreasonable? Oh, i get it. Mormons believe that only god's children are bestowed with these inalienable rights. God save them all.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:32 p.m.

    none of us gays want to join the mormon church. How about you leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.

  • Larry
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:35 p.m.

    We love the gays but hate their sin. That is a bit hard to do but we try. I believe gays choose their lifestyle and want to be able to "marry" so their lifestyle will be acceptable and therefore silence those who believe otherwise.

  • Breck
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:40 p.m.

    Mormons don't want to control everything, we just want to have our equal say. Liberals just want to marginalize religous beliefs as irrational. Sixty to seventy percent of this country are against gay marriage being condoned by the government. The problem is that those on the side of gay rights don't have the decency to respect our views as anything but bigotry and hatred.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:46 p.m.

    oh, Larry. Living too long in a theocracy will warp your brain. Trust us, we don't want you to love us. We no more choose our homosexuality than you chose your heterosexuality. You're spouting religious propaganda. Here's some more for you: "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

  • Milt
    Feb. 28, 2009 10:49 p.m.

    The past few days have been interesting. Someone once said ,"that some attention is better than no attention." I would say the gays have really taken advantage of "Buttar's Blunder's" to voice their feelings. There have been some "enlightening" comments which ever side you are on. I suppose that since the L.D.S. conference is coming up, the gays will get their signs etc. ready. One of the comments that I thought a little humorus, was the one about Noah. The question was how the gays would have come out when Noah was taking the animals two by two. I guess the gay animals would have been standing in the rain. Peace.

  • @ya think?
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:02 p.m.

    "Mormons believe that only god's children are bestowed with these inalienable rights."

    As a "Mormon" I wouldn't disagree with this statement. One of the most fundamental doctrines of the Church is that ALL men and women are children of God. This doctrine is not partial to any race, creed, culture, gender, moral standing, etc...

  • JB
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:02 p.m.

    I took a psych class at a liberal university back east. My prof was very liberal. She really hated it when I asked if there was proof that homosexuality was genetic. Finally she admitted that there was none.

  • @Milt
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:05 p.m.

    your joke makes no sense.

  • @Milt part 2
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:14 p.m.

    ...if there were gay animals, did they choose their homosexuality as you likely believe humans do?

  • to JB
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:16 p.m.

    you are lying and everyone on here knows it. That is unless you went to your liberal university back east sometime in the 50's.

  • JB
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:29 p.m.

    To the comment at 11:16; amazing that you are calling me a liar. What a nasty thing to do. The other 120 people in the class heard it and were shocked because the professor personally believed it was genetic.

    The professor also taught us that it was considered a mental illness to believe that homosexuality was wrong. I then asked her if that had always been the case and she said that in the past it was considered a mental illness to feel homosexuality was fine. She said the criteria used was the opinion of the majority. So a person, without changing their opinion, would be considered mentally well in the 70s and mentally ill in the 90s. Weird world we live in.

    If you don't believe me, open some text books.

  • To JB's attacker
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:30 p.m.

    "to JB | 11:16 p.m. Feb. 28, 2009 - you are lying and everyone on here knows it. That is unless you went to your liberal university back east sometime in the 50's."

    OK, genius, where's the scientific proof you claim to have that homosexuality is 100%, undisputably genetic?

    Time to put up or shut up.....

    Come on, we're waiting.

  • another jab at Milt
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:39 p.m.

    so the joke is funny because the gay animals were excluded from the ark and perished? Or did you want them to be paired up with their straight counterparts so when the ark landed those forced families were ruined when the gay animal ran off to search for his own kind? There are many modern examples (ducks, geese, penguins and cows to name a few) of homosexual animals and yet somehow they were able to survive the great flood. So many seriously ridiculous possibilities but what they all have common is the underlying homophobia of the author who just thought he was repeating a stupid joke.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:46 p.m.

    it's time for you to open up some text books. Preferably some current ones. No one said that 'homosexuality is 100%, undisputably (sic) genetic'. Do you believe that heterosexuality is 100%, indisputably genetic?

  • from the Guardian UK
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:58 p.m.

    'US researchers are finding common biological traits among gay men, feeding a growing consensus that sexual orientation is an inborn combination of genetic and environmental factors that largely decide a person's sexual attractions before they are born.'

  • The Guardian UK article
    Feb. 28, 2009 11:59 p.m.

    was dated December 1, 2008.

  • In Defense of JB
    March 1, 2009 12:00 a.m.

    "Anonymous | 11:46 p.m. Feb. 28, 2009 - it's time for you to open up some text books. Preferably some current ones. No one said that 'homosexuality is 100%, undisputably (sic) genetic'. Do you believe that heterosexuality is 100%, indisputably genetic?"

    Quit trying to change the subject, Anonymous. JB @ 11:02 very clearly said that a college professor he knew was forced to admit that homosexuality has not yet been proven as being purely caused by genetics and then "to JB" at 11:16 kindly called him a liar and said that "everyone here" knows it.

    In other words, "homosexuality is 100% genetic".

    So, again, I ask, where's your PROOF?

    And, no, you may not talk about science and heterosexuality because that's not what's under fire here....it's homosexuality, so don't change the subject.

    So...quit dawdling. Where's the homosexual scientific proof?

  • JB
    March 1, 2009 12:01 a.m.

    re: Anonymous at 11:46,

    You seem a little confused. I'm not going to argue with you because it would be pointless. I wanted to share that info and yes, I haven't been in college for nine years but I've kept up on the issue.

    The reason I brought it up is because some liberals make comments on here about how indisputable it is that gays were born that way. This has not been proven. We all have various urges, some act on them, some resist. I have a close relative who was gay for years and is now very happily married with a child. Many of you say having homosexual urges cannot change. Facts say otherwise. Now go ahead and rant; it won't change the facts and you won't frighten me into agreeing with you with abuse and labels.

  • more for JB
    March 1, 2009 12:02 a.m.

    While sexual behaviour may be chosen, the preponderance of researchers say attraction is dictated by biology, with no demonstrated contribution from social factors such as parenting or other factors after birth.

    A host of studies since the mid-1990s have found common biological traits between gay men, including left-handedness and the direction of hair whorls. The likelihood that if one identical twin is gay, the other will be also be gay is much higher than the "concordance" of homosexuality between fraternal twins, indicating that genes play a role in sexual orientation, but are not the entire cause.

    "In the past decade, I think the pendulum has swung more toward biological theory and biological causes," said Richard Lippa, a psychology professor at California State University-Fullerton

  • and one more
    March 1, 2009 12:02 a.m.

    Sven Bocklandt, a geneticist at the David Geffen school of medicine at UCLA, is bewildered by the argument that people choose their sexual attraction. He said that virtually every animal species that has been studied - from sheep to fruit flies - has a small minority of individuals who demonstrate homosexual activity.

  • Joke
    March 1, 2009 12:04 a.m.

    Get a net and a cage! The gays had a party involving the anti American people. The anti human rights people tried to demonstrate their contempt for others opinions. They were successful and have proven they are mindless, intolerate people. Nothing new here! Get a LIFE and accept others beliefs, if the gays want such considerations.

  • Bias
    March 1, 2009 12:22 a.m.

    Almost anything can be proven by research, depending upon the bias of the team involved or their backers. The UK is becoming extremist in their liberal views. There was a report I heard years ago showing twinkies were good for kids. Later, it was learned that a sugar company had paid for the research.

  • Heterosexuality and genetics
    March 1, 2009 12:26 a.m.

    Heterosexuality has an undeniable genetic component: X and Y chromasomes.

  • Boyd
    March 1, 2009 1:32 a.m.

    I'm constantly amazed whenever Christian folk want proof brought to the table that homosexuality is genetic. Um ... you want the LGBT crowd to prove that their supposed "affliction" is genetic, while they simply have to accept that your supreme deity has already passed judgment on homosexuality and deemed it an abomination?

    I mean, I'm all for religious freedom, and all for faith in whatever power you see fit, but as for me and my house, I have faith in the United States Constitution, which is being run over roughshod by a majority playing wounded victim. I hope these things will correct themselves, although it seems the judiciary is the only recourse for the minorities in our land of the free.

  • Chad
    March 1, 2009 2:06 a.m.

    If homosexuality is genetic, it is a dead-end genetic failure. Other genetic traits that essentially guarantee that those genes will not be passed on die out over time, or are called syndromes or diseases.

    Arguing that it is genetic and must therefore be accepted always makes me laugh. A genetic imperative of all species is reproduction. Doin' it with something that won't create offspring is an evolutionary dead-end, and not worthy of support, except consolation for the terminal condition.

    Great, let's all celebrate the genetic dead-enders and treat them like the rest of us who will actually contribute to the gene pool and society moving forward through marriage and children.

  • The Truth
    March 1, 2009 7:16 a.m.

    Homosexuality, if allowed to spread and become rampant, certainly would be this nation's undoing. God protects this nation, it is a promised land and a protected chosen land to those who keep God's commandments. But when a majority of the people disobey God's commandments and turn to evil ways, such as homosexuality which is an abomination in the sight of God, then God will withdraw his protection and that nation will dwindle and crumble into ruin. This is the lesson taught over and over in the Old Testament and Book of Mormon: Nations prosper when a majority of the people keep God's commandments, and dwindle and perish when a majority of the people do not keep God's commandments. So Buttars was right in the sense that if homosexuality perversions spread and reach a critical mass in society and culture, then watch out this nation's end draws near.

  • glendenb
    March 1, 2009 7:34 a.m.

    This discussion went off in an odd direction.

    The consensus in the medical and mental health community holds the sexual orientation is an inherent trait of a person's identity; the ethical standards in the mental health community state that the goal in treating glbt persons is to help them lead an emotionally healthy life as a gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender person.

    To put it another way, being attracted to persons of the other gender (heterosexual), persons of both genders (bisexual) and persons of the same gender (homosexual) are all within the realm of normal, human sexual orientation and experience.

    Asking "Is sexual orientation genetic?" misses the point. The question of causation arises only because there are persons who falsely assert sexual orientation is entirely a matter of choice or that being non-heterosexual is a psychological maladaptation or illness. A minority of persons have always been non-heterosexual. The question of our day is we as a society will integrate all persons into the full life of the community and that being glbt persons are full members of the human family with the same feelings and rights.

  • Byron
    March 1, 2009 7:58 a.m.

    Keep up the good work Mr. Buttars, you are just saying what 90% of the people want to say but don't know how or haven't got the guts to say it.

  • Contribution made
    March 1, 2009 7:58 a.m.

    Re Chad: And don't forget that the propagation of the species contributes to global warming, war, and stresses on earth's resources.

  • Biggest Threat
    March 1, 2009 8:04 a.m.

    Re Golden Calf: You are right about the Golden Calf except that all sorts of debauchery was occurring, not just homosexuality. In our modern day society, the golden calf is money, television, the internet and the debauchery is pornography. Buttars has it all wrong. Gays are not the biggest threat to American Society, it is internet pornography.

  • To be expected
    March 1, 2009 9:40 a.m.

    The response to Senator Butters remarks is hardly surprising given the record of intimidation, insults, extreme reactions, and attempts to silence disagreement by those who sympathize with the gay rights agenda. One such example is the ongoing hatred and threats used against the LDS church and anyone else who voted their conscience during the proposition 8 initiative in California. For instance, they have posted blacklists online of those who supported the prop. 8 initiative. There other examples of such hatred and intimidation (see The Perils of Raising the Title of Liberty, Maurine Proctor, Meridian Magazine, and Owner says Proposition 8 Opponents Hacked in to Web Site, Carrie Moore, Deseret News, 11/13/08). Senator Butters voiced an opinion that dissented from the ideas of the gay agenda, and thus hes become a target of their unrelenting attacks. Their motive is nothing more than to scare anyone who would disagree with them into silence. Its interesting that those who scream for tolerance the loudest are those that are the least tolerant among us.

  • @The Truth
    March 1, 2009 9:47 a.m.

    Arguing your point by citing scriptures or your personal religious beliefs is like the other side arguing from emotion and citing their junk science. If you want to add something constructive to the debate then it has to be done using sound logic that most other people can relate to. There's plenty of reasons for people to be against society condoning homosexuality without bringing religion into it.

  • Stenar
    March 1, 2009 11:57 a.m.

    There were more like 1,500 people there, NOT 300. The Tribune reported over 1,000. Why is the Deseret News trying to downplay the turnout?

  • The Bible is just a book
    March 1, 2009 12:35 p.m.

    Please stop referencing the Bible for facts and proof. You look foolish to anyone with a degree higher than an associates from Stevens-Henegar.

  • A Threat to our community?
    March 1, 2009 12:46 p.m.

    They are if they threaten our ability, and the ability of our political leaders, to have freedom of speech. The "progressive community's" behavior (as they wish to be called) says more about them than what they are saying about Buttars. I agree with the ACLU--we shouldn't silence Buttars because in doing so, we set dangerous precedence that any and all voices can be silenced if they are voices of inconvenience to our public bullies. Yes, that is exactly how I see the "progressive community"--political and social bullies. Who will protect us from them?

  • Guy
    March 1, 2009 12:59 p.m.

    Lame. What a thing to spend time on.

  • John Charity Spring
    March 1, 2009 3:15 p.m.

    Why is modern media so quick to publicize events in which people engage in outrageous behavior to get attention? Our society must return to the values that made this Country great: charity, temperance, and respect for others. A failure to do so will just make existing problems worse.

  • Being Gay
    March 1, 2009 4:06 p.m.

    Being gay has to be biological. Why else would a man or woman choose to be gay? So that society can harass them, beat them up, make fun of them, and deny them jobs, marriage, etc.???

    I would not choose to be gay. It obviously is biological. No one in their right mind would say, "Gee, let me be gay, they seem to catch all the garbage society can throw their way. Please let me humiliated, tortured, and killed for being gay. Thank you Lord."

    Illogical. Gayness must be biological if you just think about it for a moment.

  • re To be Expected
    March 1, 2009 4:21 p.m.

    i agree 100%

  • re: Bible
    March 1, 2009 5:34 p.m.

    This shows that there are two languages being spoken in mainstream America. One is the language of those who believe there is a God and an afterlife, right and wrong, and those beliefs influence every factor of their lives. The other language is those who believe this life is it, nothing more, no God, no absolutes only relativity, and those beliefs influence every factor of their life.

    Without acknowledging this reality, the two sides will never effectively communicate. To say that someone cannot factor the Bible into their discussion is to say that person and everything they believe is without consequence. Acknowledging disparate beliefs, but allowing for the difference is called respect. I respect the rights of gays to believe differently than me. However, many gays do not respect my right to disagree.

    Belittling the other side and pretending that no educated person is religious does not help build bridges.

  • AB
    March 1, 2009 5:54 p.m.

    To the bible is just a book: Sounds to me as if you think having a degree higher than an associates makes you smarter than God! I feel so bad for people who put so much value on how smart they are given how many degrees they have. I am sure God thinks this is hilarious!

  • Bill
    March 1, 2009 6:54 p.m.

    It is so funny that the LDS Church teaches its members to get the highest degree of education possible. It also teaches its members to read the best books. Some of the greatest scientist of this time are currently sitting as members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church. Yes, those who favor homosexuality as biological dispute anything these men say just as when we use these mens expericences to cite what is known. Homosexuality is a CHOICE. Yes, you may have same gender attaraction but it is up to you to CHOOSE to act upon that. Animals are put here on earth to be acted upon where as Mankind is placed here to act.

    We are of higher intelligence than any in the animal kingdom. Yes, I know all about how this animal has this degree of intelligence and so on but the fact is they are acted upon. They go strictly by INSTINCT. Man does not go by INSTINCT alone. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

  • tired of the dbl standard
    March 1, 2009 9:38 p.m.

    It seems its OK to scream and yell your opinion as long as its not a conservative opinion.

  • @Breck
    March 2, 2009 8:20 a.m.

    we have thre branches of govornment and that includes the courts, the courts play an important role of protecting indivudal and minority groups rights from the will of the majority. It is not activism to do so it is a basic function of our government.

  • re: Being Gay
    March 2, 2009 8:28 a.m.

    By that argument, why would teenagers choose to become pregnant? So that they can drop out of high school, live a life of poverty, and have their children grow up to be a drain on society? Hmm, and yet, teenagers get pregnant. Must be beyond their control.

    Not saying I understand anything about the causes of homosexual tendencies, but I am saying that behavior is always a choice.

  • BackFire
    March 2, 2009 9:18 a.m.

    This is becoming a circus. The gays are not helping their cause by parading a bunch of drag queens out at a party. They want to be seen as 'normal' and 'egual' yet whenever there is a 'whatever a palooza' going on they make every point to show just how different they are. I am not for gay marriage but do support the governor and the LDS church's position that approves of civil unions and such.

    If you want respect, stop parading around in your underwear and perhaps someone might just listen.

  • bandersen
    March 2, 2009 11:00 a.m.

    Noticed how the media and the homosexual community shifted the argument away from whether homosexuality is an abomination (sorry, I haven't been through enough sensitivity training on my terms) to whether Buttars said a few words that hurt feelings or were "intolerant". I think that this is a moot point with many utah citizens. They just want people to obey the law. The real threat from these groups is that as they try to embed corruption into our our legal system, we will stand idly by and watch. The fact that it is even a part of public debate shows slippage in our culture.

  • mark
    March 2, 2009 1:02 p.m.

    I know my way around the MAJOR LGBT forums, and the vast majority of them had ads announcing Buttars-Palooza. That means 80% of LGBTs NATIONALLY heard about this event. 5 to 9 per cent of America is LAUGHING at Buttars and Utah.

  • in a sorry State
    March 2, 2009 1:05 p.m.

    I think this rally should become an annual event.

  • crazy
    March 2, 2009 1:19 p.m.

    watch Religulous. You guys are too hateful for words.

  • One Life
    March 2, 2009 2:13 p.m.

    A Philosopher once said, "To each of us is given a life, to live with Honor, and to Pass on having left our Mark." Very few of us leave much of a Mark on the land other than that of our "Seed."

    How sad it is that those who have the "same sex attraction" will leave nothing. They pour their "Seed" away because of their vain beliefs.

  • changed my mind for me
    March 2, 2009 2:13 p.m.

    I was siding with the against-buttars crowd until this.

    Now I must admit that Buttar's might have been spot on!

  • @anonymous 5:10 p.m.
    March 2, 2009 3:02 p.m.

    I was there in support of the rally around 2:00 pm when "the largest crowd was present" and there was not even over five hundred people there. There were more than I expected but certainly not over 1000. And BTW he got his numbers from the Utah State Highway Patrol which was doing crowd control up on the hill that day.

  • east tex
    March 2, 2009 3:25 p.m.

    The same old tired arguments justifying bigotry were used in the '50's pro segregation rally's. Desegregation will destroy the fabric of society, our country will go down the path of destruction, I have heard it all before growing up in East Texas in the '50's. I saw upstanding religious folks hurl insults and more at African Americans marching for equal rights. It seems nothin has changed, there is always a boogie-man to bring the tribe together in a us against them campaign.

  • Kevin Olson
    March 2, 2009 3:25 p.m.

    The day shall come when Evil shal be called Good, and Good shall be called Evil.

    That day is today.

  • Michelle
    March 2, 2009 5:20 p.m.

    I think this is a good thing. Buttars is one of the most offensive people in office today. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but he doesn't need to be so disgusting about it. Let's bring equality to this nation!! Isn't that what America is about? It should be.

  • mark
    March 2, 2009 7:25 p.m.

    @JB
    Brain autopsies of known gay men have found more connections between the two hemispheres than straight men.
    Did I chose that too?

  • mark
    March 2, 2009 7:26 p.m.

    chose should been choose in last post

  • re: Bible just a book
    March 2, 2009 9:39 p.m.

    What a totally ignorant and thoughtless statement. To the billion Chistians world wide the bible is NOT just a book and I am sorry to burst your bubble of ignorance but the very definition of moral and imoral behavior would be meaningless without the bible. Without a moral standard we sink to the "animal level" and society quickly disintigrates. Jesus Christ gave commandments not to bring misery - but happiness and unlock the destructive chains of sin. There are MILLIONS of people in the world today whose life has been transformed by reversing their sinful life and following the teachings and commandments of Christ. It would be good for you to know a few of these folks and then you would understand that the bible (and the Book of Mormon) are much more than just books - they are records that many have given their lives for because of the absolute importance they have on the happiness of the human species.

  • Remember
    March 3, 2009 9:24 a.m.

    There are more people of the "Gay" lifestyle in the USA then there are "Mormons" lifestyle in the USA. Who is in the minority?

  • RE: re: Bible just a book
    March 3, 2009 12:40 p.m.

    The United States is not a theocracy founded on Christian principles. For all of you who have found jesus, and it makes you happy, great for you. Really really great. Now keep your book out of the state. I don't need the bible to tell me something is wrong that I know is wrong.
    As for the Majority argument, this is put out by people who do nut understand how our government is organized, BRECK, that means you.
    If the legislature elected by the people passes a law that is unconstitutional, it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the Judicial branch to shoot it down.
    If a referendum passes that is unconstitutional, it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the Judicial to shoot it down.
    the judicial protects the rights of everyone, not just the majority in power.

  • Ted
    March 3, 2009 1:44 p.m.

    Why is it that the lunatic fringe in any movement seems to spew hatred and misunderstanding towards another group. Does the fringe doubt their own validity? I sort of smile though at those who quote rule of law and that would protest the way someone voted or on which side they stood. Prop.8 was an initative that was voted upon. Why did the gays boycott those who voted against it? Why does some of the religious right bash the gays. Does that not totally go against what each side "says" that they stand for? I think its okay to express opinions, but you can literally feel hate oozing out of some.

  • @ another jab at Milt
    March 3, 2009 2:17 p.m.

    Could you enlighten me a little more on the gay animals? I thought geese were hetro and mated for life. I also suppose that there were some gay people in Noah's time who weren't able to make it on the ark. I can't see what Milt said that you would think offensive. If gays got left in the rain, so be it. Alot of folks think gays are out in the rain now. Some think that gays are more out of it than Buttars. So see, everyone "chooses" what they will think. If you choose to be offended, you will be.

  • Southern boy
    March 3, 2009 2:50 p.m.

    I have lived in the West for several years now. When I was growing up in the South, gays did not dare come out of the closet. Had they done so, they may have been invited to go alligator hunting late at night, and you can guess who might have been the bait. I think here in the West you do have alot of rights and you are more tolerated. I don't think that you will ever get the understanding that you are asking for. You are making a declaration in a most fundamental and sacred area, that you have deviated from the norm. Please undertand that when you refer to sex, people get the most awful and unatural visualization. I think we should all have tolerance for each other. I was just trying to explain what I think are some of the reasons for intelorance.

  • Milt
    March 3, 2009 3:18 p.m.

    I thought I would jump into the frey again. I have a gay cousin named Ned. Ned is a real good guy and the family enjoys having him around. However, Ned brought his "friend" to our last family outing. They walked off down the creek away from the family and were apparently hugging and kissing. One of the small children came running and said, "Uncle Ned is kissing another guy." What are we supposed to tell our children. I cannot in good conscience ever tell a child of mine that that is natural or that the Lord wants us to live that way. I can say don't mind what Uncle Ned does. Needless to say, I think Ned will be welcome at family parties, but not the gay friend. Even if I am trying to be understanding, it doesn't to go over well in our family, and it is extremely hard for young children to understand.

  • What?
    March 3, 2009 3:21 p.m.

    Latin drag queens? You can't just make this stuff up, it's too weird. Can you be a drag queen and not be perverted? Seems impossible. Wish I would have been their for the show.

  • Loretta
    March 3, 2009 3:24 p.m.

    What about a gay sponsored easter egg hunt to ease the tension and build understanding. We could hold it at Liberty Park and I think I could likely get the eggs donated. You all tell me what you think and I'll bring it up at one of our forum meetings.

  • Lem
    March 3, 2009 3:38 p.m.

    I am a veteran of many civil rights activities and marches. I do not think that I have ever felt closure like I have since President Obama was elected. Although I know there is still hatred among some, I think the American people have spoken, and I think we can all hear it loud and clear. My advice to gay rights activists would be to be the bigger people or person and don't do things like boycott on Prop. 8. Be visible, let your voice be heard, chose your time and places. Above all, there are always some who are difficult to control and hurt more than they help. Be pro- active, let people see a tolerant face. Do some good things for the community, like sponsoring food drives etc. Things that are positive and will make people see that everyone can do good. The job is to persuade, you can't force. Just my thoughts.

  • Nat
    March 3, 2009 4:26 p.m.

    Mark,
    What are the "more connections" between the hemispheres in the brain in gay men saying?

  • mark
    March 3, 2009 8:16 p.m.

    @Nat
    That there are cofirmed biological differences between gay men and straight men. It may also explains gay men being more creative accessing both sides (subjective and analytical halves) easier.
    This biological difference MEANS being gay is not something someone chooses, you are BORN that way.

  • @Lem
    March 3, 2009 11:12 p.m.

    Love it. So true. If my mind wasn't made up before all these protests, it is now.
    I went to Buttars house to talk with him about his comments. I heard his phone ring off the hook and saw two faxes come in with hate written all over them. I was pretty convinced by the time I left who the victim was. And it wasn't the people dancing at this party.

  • KRB
    March 4, 2009 1:41 a.m.

    Amen to the Golden Calf

  • California LDS
    March 4, 2009 9:08 a.m.

    Hey "Equal Rights"...You're absolutely right. No threats to burn the LA Temple, but it's okay to write and destroy other people's property. Vandalizing is acceptable right? Give it up! sore losers.

  • Church believes biological link
    March 4, 2009 12:48 p.m.

    What has previously posted on these boards:

    "As a student volunteer, I worked in the BYU Psychology Department/Clinic-sponsored research studies and I can assure you that these electric-shock therapy experiments to try to cure homosexuality DID HAPPEN! I was a volunteer helping out with no less than 3 separate studies, each examining aspects of homosexuality, its origins, and its modifiability. The results of these studies were communicated to Salt Lake and the Brethren, and it is because the results indicated that homosexuality may be inborn and is extremely resistant to the most powerful forms of electro- and chemical- therapies that the Brethren have taken the official stand they have taken. Officially, same sex attraction is NOT a sin! Only homosexual behavior is considered sinful in the Church."

  • Alford
    March 4, 2009 1:08 p.m.

    @ Church believes biological link.
    I question your data somewhat. Maybe you didn't use a high enough voltage.

  • Simon
    March 4, 2009 1:21 p.m.

    Dear Gay Folk,
    I think you have a cause, and everyone should have a right to live and enjoy life. I really don't appreciate the comments that some of you have made against Mormons. I also don't care for the snide comments that some have made against the gays. Historically, I don't believe that gays have suffered what the Mormon's did, especially in their early history. I agree with Lem. Quit shouting and show kindness as I'm sure many of you do. Why is it that many can converse with out trying to insult, but some can't seem to help themselves. I think that is true on either side of this discussion.
    A Catholic in Baltimore

  • Sam
    March 4, 2009 1:30 p.m.

    Hey queermark,
    You do a diservice to the gays. You express you opinions in the most infantile way on this board. I really believe gays have a cause, but you are not helping. I think I know you! Are you the guy that comes to McDonalds in South Salt Lake for breakfast every morning in your motorized chair with the whip antena and the triangular flag. I think I also saw you at Liberty Park. I'm going to come introduce myself next time I see you.

  • STEVE-O
    March 4, 2009 4:23 p.m.

    This is not a homosexual vs. religion issue. It's supposed to be a human rights issue.... right?
    Lem is completely right! Do what you have to do to be heard, but don't spread more hate and disagreement. Do good in the community, support each other, and understand that not everybody will agree with you along the way.

  • jim
    March 4, 2009 4:55 p.m.

    I agree with Steve-O. This isn't a issue about homosexual vs religion. It is about a man who exercised his 1st amendment right to free speech. He represented himself, not a religion. Which just goes to show that that free speech is not free and never has been.

  • Anonymous
    March 4, 2009 5:35 p.m.

    @sam
    I am also not in a wheel chair, I walked just fine.

  • Alvin
    March 5, 2009 11:57 a.m.

    Gay's keep saying that there is no choice in being gay. I think that there is always a choice with what you do with it. What about the majority of nuns and priests that have taken vows of celibacy. Do you think that their natural urges just went away? I think you can say that it is too high a price to pay to not follow the natural instincts, but I don't think that you can ever say that there is not a choice. I believe that there are some who choose gayness because because they like the life style. I think there are many who feel persecuted for the life style. Just my thoghts.

  • Not relevant
    March 5, 2009 3:43 p.m.

    I've scanned a few comments and noticed that many are arguing over if having gay urges is 'genetic' 'inborn' or not. I find this to be a ridiculous thing to argue about. It's not important where the urge comes from. Some people are born predisposed to anger and rage, some are born with addictive tendencies. Just because someone is born with a predisposition towards something, doesn't make it right to act on it. Is it not important to learn to have self-control and to master the natural man? If you're born with gay urges, that is your cross to bear. I pray for you. We all have things to overcome in this life.

  • J
    March 5, 2009 6:50 p.m.

    A question for those who support the GLBT:

    Assuming that the drive to Homosexuality is genetically hardwired, would I assume wrong that when we can genetically alter an individual the Homosexuals will be the first in line to be changed to Heterosexual?

  • Did he say that?
    March 6, 2009 4:42 a.m.

    Did the guy in that article say that racial inequality was a threat to the US? Do these people realize that a black man was elected president? The whole racial discrimination thing needs to go away now. The US has shown we don't discriminate anymore. Get a new cause.