The more people hear from Paul Mero, LaVar Christensen, Stan Rasmussen and the
rest of that bunch, the less impressed they're going to be. These
guys have been trotting out the same old arguments for years now, and they don't
seem to be coming up with any new ones.The old arguments rely on an
audience that is scared to death of the word "gay" ... and that audience is
shrinking. More and more folks will begin to recognize that the way Sutherland
describes gay people is bogus, that it doesn't sound anything like the actual
gay people that we know.These guys want to pretend we're arguing
about the definition of marriage. Guess what? Gays and lesbians who want to
marry are motivated by the same things that make straight folks want to marry.
How hard is that to understand? Anyway, Sutherland has already now proven that
this is not about marriage. Those guys are opposed to any and all advancement
in rights for gays.
I was at the debate but the reporter must not have been there. If a debate judge
would have awarded points, the Sutherland group would have won on every point.
They presented fact and evidence. For instance Christensen didn't say of his
opinion that homosexuals are rife with disease, a UofU prof expert was quoted
from scientific evidence. To every point of fact that gays offered nothing but
emotional indignance. The gays in the audience were rude and that whole side was
an in-your-face crown, defiant with the attitude that you'll do as we say or
we'll hurt you. I've concluded that reporters long ago left the world of
journalistic skills and fact reporting and certainly are not the smartest people
on the planet.
I've read both sides and am strongly in support of the Sutherland Inst. The
reason the "same old" arguments have been used is becuase we're not the first
generation to face this issue. Other generations have simply understood better
that sexual orientation is a choice and that it goes against natural laws.The search for the "missing homosexual gene" is exactly that, still
missing and uproven along with the beastiality, pedophilia, and adulter
It's disgusting that this debate even had to take place. Shame on all of you
who share the anti-gay sentiment in this community.
Chino Blanco: The more people hear from Paul Mero, LaVar Christensen, Stan
Rasmussen and the rest of that bunch, the less impressed they're going to be.
I disagree. The more I hear from them the more impressed I am. The
more I hear from gay activists and see their disgusting behavior toward those
who disagree with them, the less inclined I am to support their causes.
Jesus Christ loved all people. The haters in this argument do not reflect His
Re: how sadI could just as easily say shame on you for supporting
this debauchery and societal poison. This argument is going to go on
for a looong time.
Um...How Sad? You just kind of proved Not So's point. Yes, this is an
emotional issue, but it's primarily a legal issue, which requires evidence and
sound methodology. The fact of the matter is that children do best in a
traditional family with a biological mother and father - study after study has
confirms this. (One that immediately comes to mind is that girls do better in
mathematics if their *fathers* are engaged in their lives.) Traditional
marriage is the best means society has to protect the most vulnerable population
- children - and that is weakening on many fronts. This movement isn't
"anti-gay," it's pro-marriage and has been seeking to reduce divorce and single
parenting in addition to prevent a radical redefiniations of marriage.
It doesnt really matter who won the fact is why should anyone judge the way one
lives their life? Who or what gives anyone the right to control another. If I
came into someones home and forced my beliefs what would happen? Would you
fight to keep your beliefs or follow mine? The LDS of all people should
understand being ostracized, or are you just hippocritical, are we to judge? Why
do we use what suits us from the bible and choose to ignore the things we dont
like. Is it right? If a church, a private institution, doesnt like gay
marriage then excommunicate them, that simple, thats the extent of your rule but
to force religious belief into the lives of people that dont believe in your
religion is ridiculous. Once again religion crosses its boundaries into state
issues. Our religion is OUR BELIEF, an individual trait and choice. Let people
chose whats best for them in their lifestyle not yours. If you think I am
wrong, then invite me over to force my beliefs onto you and your family. Think
The Common Ground Initiative is right on one point: I have thought about and
discussed the topic of gay marriage/issues when I never really thought about it
before.However, I am tired of the gay/lesbian community's unending
efforts to force me to accept them and their lifestyle. "You're going to have
to accept us. You're un-American if you don't. You don't have Christlike love
if you don't see our lifestyle as acceptable."I am not a hater. I
love my gay and lesbian friends. But I do not agree with their lifestyle and I
do not agree that gay marriage should be legalized.In America,
you're allowed to have your own opinion. Let me have mine.
I am done with unsubstantiated claims that gay and lesbian parents are inferior
to straight parents. Read a study before you lie again. Here are some:1.
Gay/lesbian parents report no greater stress than heterosexuals, and children
are not adversely affected by being raised by homosexual families 2005 Lambert
S. Family Journal: Counseling & Therapy for Couples & Families 13(1): 43-51. 2."Gay and Lesbian Families: What We Know and Where to Go From Here" 2004
Wainright J. Child Development 75(6): 1886-1898. 3."Psychosocial
Adjustment, School Outcomes, and Romantic Relationships of Adolescents With
Same-Sex Parents" 2003 Golombok S. Developmental Psychology 39: 20-33. 4."Children with lesbian parents: A community study." 2003 Millbank J.
Australian Journal of Social Issues 38: 541-600.5."From here to maternity:
A review of the research on lesbian and gay families." 2002 Vanfraussen K.
Journal of Reproductive and Infant Psychology 20: 237-252.
14. American Psychiatric Association resource document on controversies in child
custody: Gay and lesbian parenting, transracial adoptions, joint versus sole
custody, and custody gender issues." 1998 McNeill K. Psychological Reports
82:59-62. 15." Families and parenting: A comparison of lesbian and
heterosexual mothers" 1998 Parks C. American Journal of Orthopsychiatry 68(3):
376-389. 16."Lesbian parenthood: A review of the literature" 1997 Brewaeys
A. Human Reproduction 12:1349-59 1997 Brewaeys A. J of Psychosomatic Obs and Gyn
18:1-16 1997 Patterson C. Advances in Clinical Child Psychology 19:235-282.17. "Children of lesbian and gay parents" 1997 Tasker F. Journal of Divorce
and Remarriage 1997 28 (1-2) 183-202. 18."Young People's Attitudes toward
Living in a Lesbian Family: A Longitudinal Study of Children Raised by
Post-Divorce Lesbian Mothers" 1996 Allen M. J of Homosexuality 32(2):19-35. 19."Comparing the impact of homosexual and heterosexual parents on children:
Meta-analysis of existing research" 1996 Golombok S. Developmental Psychology 32
20."Do Parents Influence the Sexual Orientation of Their Children? Findings from
a Longitudinal Study of Lesbian Families." 1996 Patterson C. Journal of Social
Issues 52(3): 29-50. 21."Lesbian and gay families with children:
Implications of social science research for policy" 1995 Bailey J. Developmental
Psychology 31(1): 124-129. 22."Sexual orientation of adult sons of gay
fathers." 1995 Flaks D. Developmental Psychology 31(1): 105-114. 23."Lesbians choosing motherhood: A comparative study of lesbian and
heterosexual parents and their children." 1995 Fowler G. Family and Conciliation
Courts Review 33(3): 361-376.24."Homosexual parents: Implications for
custody cases" 1995 Tasker F. Am J of Orthopsychiatry 65:203-15.25.
"Adults Raised as Children in Lesbian Families" 1995 van-Nijnatten C. Medicine
and Law 14(5-6): 359-368. 26."Sexual orientation of parents and Dutch
family law." 1995 Victor S. School Psychology Review 24(3): 456-479.
27."Lesbian mothers and the children: A review for school psychologists." 1994
McIntyre D. Mediation Quarterly 12(2), winter, 135-149. 28."Gay Parents
and Child Custody: A Struggle under the Legal System" 1993 Patterson C. , Annual
Progress in Child Psychiatry and Child Development 33-62 29."Children of
Lesbian and Gay Parents" 1992 Baggett C. Law and Psychology Review 16: 189-200.
30."Sexual orientation: Should it affect child custody rulings." 1987
Kirkpatrick M. J of Homosexuality 14:201-11. 31."Clinical Implications of
Lesbian Mother Studies" 1986 Green R. Archives of Sexual Behavior 15:167-184.
32."Lesbian Mothers and Their Children: A Comparison with Solo Parent
Heterosexual Mothers and Their Children" 1986 Kleber D. Bulletin of the Am Acad
of Psychiatry and Law 14(1):81-87. 33."The impact of parental
homosexuality in child custody cases: A review of the literature" 1983 Golombok
S. J of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 24:551-572. 34."Children in
lesbian and single-parent households: Psychosexual and psychiatric appraisal"
1982 Green R. Bulletin of the Am Acad of Psychiatry and Law 10:7-15.
Catch and release, Jesus does love all but when you appear before his judgement
bar and have not repented of your sins, we'll see justice and mercy in action,
irregarless of how much he loves you.
Rob: You are trying to force acceptance of your beliefs on the rest of society.
Of course, we can't be forced to practice homosexuality, but the demand that we
accept homosexuality as normal and fine goes aginst everything we believe and it
influences our children to accept things we don't believe. As it gains more
acceptance we will see more public display of homosexual acts and our children
will be affected. Gays & lesbians are free to call us homophobic and belittle
our beliefs. They can protest against our church and businesses or individuals
that dare to support traditional marriage. They can spew hatred all over the
place, but if we dare to speak up about our beliefs, it is called hate speech
and politically incorrect.
thank you I have been beating this same drum for months but they do not listenm
they seem unconcerned by the truth.
I love how much sense being infinitely punished for finite "sins" makes. You
"sin" for you sixty or so years on earth? You're going to be punished for
Both sides of this argument are ignoring the most important point. If our
society is to remain strong, we must ignore modern media's emphasis on immediate
self-gratification at any cost. Our schools must return to the teaching of old
fashioned values such as patience, civility, loyalty, fidelity, and respect for
If Sutherland Institute is so intolerant, why did they host the event? Why did
they invite Equality Utah to participate? I appreciated Mero's comments. His
comments needed to be said. He made a lot of people uncomfortable, but in a good
way, I think.I appreciate the fact that two sides of the debate
could come together and talk about the issues. What would a debate be if one
side didn't really know what the other side was thinking. Why should one side
tippy-toe around the issue. Let's get the issues out there and let's talk about
them. And that's exactly what they did. It was clear there was
mutual respect on both sides of the debate. It was also clear that neither side
agreed with the other, but that's why it was called a debate. Cudos,
Sutherland Institute forever! How can gays call themselves normal? In what class
or species do we see reproduction with two daddys or two mommies? Did any gay
get to this earth from a gay union? Look at nature folks. You are denying the
natural order of things to try and justify your "condition."The rampant
disease among homosexuals should give a clue. If it was totaly left to the gays,
the human race as this earth knows it would cease to exist. God didn't create
two Adam's in the Garden of Eden, or two Eve's. Get a grip! Where is the
discipline?The pink illusion that you are living will render you weak and
morally deficit. This is meant as truth not intolerance.
Call it like it is. You hold hate in your heart for 10% of every child GOD (&
mostly) straight couples created. It's appauling. These people from
Equality Utah aren't even asking for marriage. And why would they? They've
been shunned by mainstream folks for so long - why would they want to be
anything like us? They simply want to take care of each other - they want basic
SIMPLE protections that still aren't as good as what my husband and I
automatically got when we were married. Basic rights. They deserve that
and so much more.
If marriage needs to be strengthened, is it not more reasonable to encourage
marriage - real, honest, stick-with-it-through-thick-and-thin, all your life
marriage - to either gays or straights? Faithful marriage cuts down on disease
- if that is someone's concern. Kids get totally messed up when parents
divorce. People who "don't need a piece of paper to validate [their]
love" are the ones who have a bad attitude toward marriage. Why should
shack-ups get the benefits of the common ground laws instead of couples who are
actually committed to each other?
Who are you to say there aren't same-sex couples who are committed? This is a
perfect example of the blanket judgement that many citizens and many legislators
automatically give. How unthoughtful to a long term relationship that has gone
through all the trials that we all deal with. Whether or not you agree
with same-sex marriage, these relationships deserve respect. They deserve to
care for each other and follow through on the promises they've made to each
other.God knows we see enough two week marriages in the world. But we're
reading stories in the media all the time about long term committed couples who
are raising children and living life. ...not unlike the rest of us.
Giving rights to LGBT people, and even legalizing same-sex marriage does not
mean anybody is "forced to accept homosexuality". It does not mean the
government or anybody else is legitimizing or endorsing gay relationships.
Those who claim such are perpetuating lies and fearmongering.Religion is legal. Does that mean that anybody is forced to accept any
particular religion or to practice it? Does that mean that the government
endorses any particular religion? No, it does not.Alcohol is legal.
Does that mean that anybody is forced to condone drinking or to drink
themselves? Does that mean that the government endorses drinking? No, it does
not.Stop the bigotry and lies, and stop making LGBT people
second-class citizens to make yourselves feel superior. It's cruel, harmful and
Sorry gay/lesbians but homosexuality is 'un-natural' affection for the SAME sex.
If that's thetype of 'relationship' your choose, I DON'T CARE BUT...and
this is a big BUT...don't try to force me to believe it is 'normal' or a
relationship I want taught to my children and grandchildren as 'NORMAL' or under
another label as an 'alternative lifestyle'. And I don't need some religious
leader to teach me this. The parts just don't fit and neither does the
lifestyle. Two gays or lesbians in a committed relationship is exactly that. It
isn't a marriage and should never be.
Each of you please read "Sick of lies" and stop acting as deities here on earth
and as eternal judges. Accept human diversity as human and realize you are
humans -not Gods. Leave judgement to a benevolent Almighty.
Each of you please read the comment of "Sick of lies" and cease attempting to to
be deities and pass eternal judgements here on earth. Accept yourself as humans
and accept human diversity as human. Let a higher benevolent God pass