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Protest: Is public land really public? Government accused of chasing away recreationers, oil industry

Government accused of driving off recreationers, oil and gas industry

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  • Public lands belong to all
    Feb. 7, 2009 4:35 a.m.

    It's because of irresponsible use of public lands that have generated laws to keep motorized off road vehicles off them. Being one with nature is shanks and ponies, not race bikes and 4 wheelers tearing up the terrain creating land erosion and destruction of the already fragile ecosystem. If you want to train a child to be a dirt biker then do it in control areas, not the open fields. Retstictions and laws come about becasue of irresponsibilty and abuse, not to keep people out. People can still use the public lands, they just can't and shouldn't be allowed to destroy it so others can't enjoy it.

  • I believe
    Feb. 7, 2009 5:37 a.m.

    The Constitution, Civil Liberties and Civil Rights!
    I am 70
    I found out when I stood up for my rights, I became a Felon, No FREEDON OF SPEECH
    Utah does not know who the Public is.
    Public Lands are State Lands
    State Lands are owned by the Public.
    Not Utah !!!!!!
    The States share belongs to the People.
    The PEOPLE do not have a POLICE FORCE working for us
    They are working for the CITY , City Robin Hoods
    They are sucking blood like a Orgsanized Gang with the States permission
    Just ask the Attorney General
    He is proud of the POLICE, Who does he work for ????????
    Utah is not America, I might as well be Cuba or M exica
    How about Germany in the 1930's?

  • johntvalentine
    Feb. 7, 2009 5:56 a.m.

    Can anyone out ther tell me how our Federal Goverment. Can dictate, against our beloved CONSTITUTION. Telling the STATE OF UTAH and it's honorable citizenry. You can do this. You can't do that. Enough is enough. America wake up. When good people do nothing, evil people rule !!! The people of the STATE OF UTAH, do not, need a king. Public land is still the public land of Utah. Their is great wisdom, when the citizens of the STATE OF UTAH. Make the dicision. What to do with Utah's public lands. Where is LIBERTY??? Where is STATE FREEDOM??? A word to the wise is sufficient.

  • Terry
    Feb. 7, 2009 6:29 a.m.

    I agree

  • Dave
    Feb. 7, 2009 7:24 a.m.

    The schools will just have to cram more kids into class rooms and pay lower wages. At least for the next 4 years.

  • Paul
    Feb. 7, 2009 7:33 a.m.

    Actually, I'm kind of glad Karl can't just pull over anywhere he feels like it and go riding his motorcycle. I've been too many places where the hills and land is just torn up by all the ATVs (it is more difficult to identify motorcycle tracks, although I see those in odd places, too.)

    What I would be concerned about is, if the State takes over, they'll just break all the land up and sell it to the highest bidder. Forget being able to go places you used to. Now, you'll have to either join a club or maybe even not be able to go there at all. Utah will become just like most of the States to the East of us - locked up.

  • stevo
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:31 a.m.

    Noel is cheerleading for the rape, ruin and run crowd. Poor folks can't drill in super sensitive area, poor folks can't run their atv's over everything. Noel shoul move to Texas where there is very no public land...maybe he would be happy!

  • Lionheart
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:41 a.m.

    If this little band of eco-dictators had their way, Americans would be penned up in urban chicken coops with little ticky-tacky trains and buses, and only the elites would be given licenses to go onto public lands. Welcome to Solent Green and the anti-human contingency.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:58 a.m.

    Boo-hoo! Off-roaders have lots of room to roam. Just because they can't tear up new places, they cry and whine. Selfishness.

  • Cut fences
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:18 a.m.

    I live in the north west corner of this state. Most of the land here belongs to ranchers with very little BLM land and our biggest problem is all the "off road enthusiasts". They cut fences and break gates letting the cattle out on the highway and ride their ATVs all over private property and when confronted they always say "This is public land and I can ride here if I want". Since it takes the Box Elder county deputies a minimum of 45 minutes to get out here and trespassing is a low priority for them they know they can break the law without much to worry about.

    These are the same yahoo's that say they are upset cause they can't ride where ever they want? they already do, wether its public land or private, they dont care. They are only concerned about riding their ATVs whenever and were ever they want. Your rights be damned.

  • Tab L Uno
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:21 a.m.

    Maybe we could let Native Americans decide how the public lands are to be used, they seem to have reached a closer relationship to it.

  • "eco-dictators"
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:26 a.m.

    I've never seen such a group of people who hate the idea of "stewardship" so much as people who comment on this site. Why does Utah love corporate interests so much, and hate the idea of land being protected from being overrun by them? What is the big rub against clean water, air, roads, and feeling safe with the things you consume; the things that corporations have zero interest in protecting? You people are very strange, considering you actually have to live in this world.

  • Pay to play
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:32 a.m.

    A nice piece of one-sided puffery that couldve been written by the oil and gas industry. Maybe it was. At the very least the reporter couldve told us how much Malone was paid for his flakery and by whom.

  • Jan
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:43 a.m.

    There is a plethora of ATV trails that interconnect the state. Many cities have designated ATV routes so that the riders can go into cities. I went on these trails for the first time near Beaver, Ut to Bryce Canyon last summer without loading the ATV into a trailer. I suspect a lot of money was spent on these routes. What makes me mad is the guys statement that he should be able to let his kid off the side of the road to ride his motorcycle. Give me a break! I own some farm property where riders felt they could just tear the place up (especially during mud seasons). Trash was strewn everywhere and the ruts motorcycles and ATV's left are awful! I like the public lands landscapes. I want things to be preserved for future generations. I don't know if I can hang onto my farm (development, taxes), but I am happy we have public lands that preserve the beautiful! Stay on the many trails we have now folks! Mike Noel, Karl Malone-get with the times!

  • Jim Trenholm
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:47 a.m.

    I attended the rally after delivering the following letter to Governor Huntsman's Office. Other addressees included Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, Forest Service Chief Gail Kimbell and Intermountain Regional Forester Harv Forsgren:

    We, The Stewardship Group, understand the 2001 Roadless Rule as being unnecessary and unlawful, in violation of National Environmental Policy and Wilderness Acts. In 100+ page rulings (2003 and 2008), Federal Judge Clarence Brimmer, twice so wrote. Governor Freudenthal is in agreement wilth Brimmer.

    "ROADLESS RULE IN LIMBO" seems to be true because George W. Bush and his appointees neither agreed or disagreed with Judge Brimmer. It appears the 2001 Roadless Rule was kept around to fight over.

    Please declare all roadless area inventories moot on National Forest lands in Utah. As a former Forest Service road engineer, I am available to assist in "Caring for the Land and Serving People."

    Jim Trenholm
    Counselor/Mediator
    www.uccr.net
    The Stewardship Group
    Roy, Utah 84067
    801-731-4817

  • tk
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:48 a.m.

    I suggest a full court one-on-one tournament to 21 between Malone and Redford at the Energy Solutions Center. Winner takes all. I think that would be a nice solution to our energy.

  • sosad
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:55 a.m.

    I think these comments are so one sided because the rest of us are still recovering from the shock "change" of this last two weeks. I'm not sure I'll ever be the same person I was. Is there someone out there who needs a worker for his or her campaign? I will work tirelessly and I can start tomorrow.

  • Brian
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:59 a.m.

    Hmm, let me guess, the ever-articulate former Jazzman said something like this: "Karl Malone will drive his big truck where Karl Malone wants to drive his big truck."

  • ATV, irony or hypocrisy?
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:03 a.m.

    What ever happened to Utah being a law-and-order kind of place? Last I heard, trespassing on private property was against the law, as was riding ATVs on no-motorized-vehicle public lands. I wonder how many of these same off-road vandals are clamoring for the removal of illegal aliens from our fair state (whose crime, incidentally, is the legal equivalent of trespassing)?

    As for the scuttled lands deals, it was common knowledge that the Bush administration was trying to shove those through in last-minute auctions that could be overturned once the new administration took over, so those bidding on the parcels should have known it was a risky buy to begin with.

    Small pity indeed, for people whose only idea of enjoyment requires noise, exhaust, and wanton destruction of sensitive terrain. Also for all those poor oil companies who thought they were getting a sure thing, even though the newspapers all said otherwise.

  • UtahMike
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:13 a.m.

    I can't believe Malone now shills for crazies like Noel and the USA-ALL crowd. These people only care about their own interests and have no appreciation that public lands in Utah are exceptional and deserve thoughtful stewardship. These clowns want to turn the whole state into an industrial park.

  • Earth
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:18 a.m.

    After a drive through Nine Mile Canyon to see what all the fuss is about I've come to the conclusion that in spite of the fact that we "need" oil and gas development, there has to be some oversight. This amazing canyon that has more known petroglyphs than anywhere else on earth is being destroyed by the development of gas and oil reserves for greed and profit. The Utah public are the big losers, allowing this industry to trash this earthly treasure. There has GOT to be an agreeable compromise for us all.

  • to ATV, irony
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:22 a.m.

    to say "it was common knowledge that the Bush administration..." is like saying the war was for Cheney - you lose all credibility right up front. Find out the facts about those so-called "last-minute" auctions, and if you can stand the truth, you'll have to muster up an ounce or two of intellectual honesty. That's all we ask. But from the remainder of your comments, I'd guess your mind and "sound-bites" are pretty well made up.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:24 a.m.

    Public lands are public only until the environmentalists take charge and kick everybody off the land. Wilderness designation is the worst thing that ever happened to this planet; it keeps everyone off the land except the young, the mobile, the wealthy. The handicapped can't use it (no motorized vehicles), the elderly can't use it (no motorized vehicles), it can't be farmed, mined, harvested, or otherwise utilized for our common good. It sits there, useless, for the special appreciation of a handful of eco-freaks.

  • dick labbatt
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:32 a.m.

    These are the same Tree Huggers,That build a huge house,on animals winter range, then complain about the deer eating thier bushes.Remember Public land use is for all to enjoy no matter what your activity.We pay are taxes too .Go back to Califorina! We never had a problem till you people moved to Utah.

  • Ralph
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:44 a.m.

    There needs to be strict regulation protecting public lands from ignorant poachers with their disregarts for nature and others right to enjoy the land as God intended.

  • Public pays but not owns land
    Feb. 7, 2009 11:19 a.m.

    Public lands are called "public" because the public pays for the land via taxes. Public lands are owned by governments as corporations, and the governments sets the rules for use of the land. The people do not own public lands. A more accurate term would be to call the lands "government lands".

  • territalks
    Feb. 7, 2009 11:25 a.m.

    i have to agree with the person who said that public lands are no longer public when tree huggers take over.how about we let the voters decide?

  • Fed Up
    Feb. 7, 2009 11:52 a.m.

    To: dick labbatt | 10:32 a.m. Feb. 7, 2009 :
    Typical Utah rant...
    Californians should move here and bring jobs and money then sit down and shut up or get out.
    Choose one or the other, you don't get both.

  • Two Sense Worth
    Feb. 7, 2009 12:00 p.m.

    Research the experience of Lindsey Williams, an ordained Baptist minister for 28 years, who went to Alaska in 1971 as a missionary and was chaplain for the Transalaska oil pipeline. Find and read The Energy Non-Crisis by Lindsey Williams, in which he reports extreme government interference.

  • corey
    Feb. 7, 2009 12:05 p.m.

    Finally stars like Karl Malonestand up and help out. Thanks Karl. soon there will be no place for recreation. We also need drilling both oil and natural gas.For the security of our country and not to mention JOBS that are created.Environmentalists EXTREME ones need to face reality.They want us to live in mud huts with no toilets and walk everywhere.I love Utah as much as anyone,but hard working people need outdoor recreation.Bill clinton and Obama have never set foot in beautiful southern utah.They need to leave us alone!

  • dick labatt
    Feb. 7, 2009 12:22 p.m.

    To "fed up" don't know what you're talking about. I don't want your California jobs or your money. How about sticking to the subject matter. P.S. That's why California is going bankrupt.

  • UintaBasinite
    Feb. 7, 2009 1:08 p.m.

    I live out here smack dab in the middle of Utah's oil patch. So unlike you metrophyles, I know what I'm talking about.

    Yes, we sorely need to become energy independent. But, not at the cost of irreparably scaring and damaging the land, watershed, archeological and anthropological treasures.

    I saw how both large and small companies moved in here the past two years and set shop up in anticipation and solely on the basis of Bush issuing his last minute executive orders and edicts to allow oil/gas leases without proper and LEGALLY MANDATED reviews of the impact of those operations on land, water table and archelogical sites... NONE WHATSOEVER! Their gamble has now put them tough out of luck.

    As for Constitutional meaning of 'people,' 'States Rights,' etc., well... that all went out the window when the United States didn't allow for the Constitutionally allowed and under-Law pursued secession of the South from the United States. By the United States (i.e. the Union) imposing its will, through military force, upon the South, war resulted, because abolishonist religious fanaticism imposed itself on the South... the entrenching of American Centralized Federalism, the antithesis of StatesRights!

  • the mon
    Feb. 7, 2009 1:31 p.m.

    Some of us find these places spiritual. How would you feel if someone were to treat you cathedrals with such disrespect. We the people of Utah have some of the most awe inspiring landscapes in the world. Lets keep them that way for our future generations to enjoy. The wilderness is the only thing left worth saving!

  • Nine Mile Canyon, etc.
    Feb. 7, 2009 1:41 p.m.

    Yes, Nine Mile Canyon is a sensitive area. Bill Barrett, who is doing much of the drilling in that area, has gone to great expense and effort to lessen the effects of trucks driving on the roads. He has paid for special coatings on the road to keep down the dust. The speed limit is greatly reduced and controlled. He's re-routed the road to go around sensitive areas. The Deseret News has published articles regarding these efforts, such as "Lawmakers Support Tavaputs Drilling Project" on Sept. 18, 2008. As some of the commenters on that particular article said, the oil and gas industry is essential to the economy of the Basin area of eastern Utah and western Colorado. Someone was worried about dust on the plants. One good rainstorm takes care of that, as well as the dust on the petroglyphs, which have weathered decades and maybe centuries of wind, dust, and erosion. Responsible drilling does not harm the environment, and provides a living for a large number of people.

  • Ron Toomey
    Feb. 7, 2009 1:47 p.m.

    There are many responsible ATV club's and individual off road rider's that love to see this great State on there ATV's. Like anything else a few irresponsible people ruin things for all. I challenge all off road vehicle users to show respect for the area's that they ride, so that we can continue to ride and allow future generations the same pleasure. Also the oil drilling issues should be dealt with separately.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 7, 2009 1:54 p.m.

    Funny. I have seen more of Utah than most. I have never been kicked off land by environmentalist. I am descended from a 1.2 million year linage of bipeds. I was taking my first steps at 18 months. By time I was eight I could do 10 mile solo hikes. It took no gas to walk. Walking never cost taxpayers. Walking didn't require thousand of dollars in machinery. I'm walked barefoot, in shoes, boots and sandals.

    ATA's are elitist. No anyone can tear up their little patch of earth without buy a ATV, trailers and a truck to tow this junk.

    It was driving around Utah that made me stop using my 4X4 Toyota. I saw the ruination of the land over time. It was immoral. I couldn't be part of this criminal activity so I stopped driving jeep roads figuring if I want to see something I had better walk to see it.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 7, 2009 2:20 p.m.

    I moved to Utah because of the great abundance of outdoor activities for me and my family. I like to
    ATV ride all over the wilderness. I have never cut a fence, rode on private property or dis-respected private land ownership. I never leave anything behind except track. I believe that those who cut fences and leave gates open should have to pay the price, fines, but don't punish all of us who respect the public land.

  • Mr. Irony
    Feb. 7, 2009 2:48 p.m.

    It's no fun to live in Utah if you can't ride all over it and mess it up.

  • Geezer
    Feb. 7, 2009 4:10 p.m.

    Funny how the major oil companies won't touch this with a 10-foot pole. They leave it to local oil drillers to fight against protection of the land, so the big brand names won't be tarnished. And the manufacturers of 4-wheel drive vehicles like Toyota are staying out of sight. They know it's bad for business, so they let the Utah ORV folks do their dirty work.

  • the truth
    Feb. 7, 2009 4:14 p.m.

    I believe James Madison and Thomas Jefferson said(and warned us) it best:

    "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite."
    -- James Madison, Federal No. 45, January 26, 1788

    "I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground that 'all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states or to the people.' To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power not longer susceptible of any definition."
    -- Thomas Jefferson, Opinion on the Constitutionality of a National Bank, February 15, 1791

    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
    -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to E. Carrington, May 27, 1788

  • Multiple use
    Feb. 7, 2009 4:16 p.m.

    I enjoy riding ATVs. I also like hiking in pristine areas where few people go. It seems to me that we have enough public land to have lots of different uses on it.

    You can have a 1 million acre parcel and ask an environmentalist how much of it should be set aside for oil exploration, for recreational vehicle use, for paved roads, and for private businesses. The answer seems to be always the same - ZERO! They think every square inch should remain in an undisturbed state and the only people who should be able to see it are those who can do so without ever leaving a trace that they were there.

  • READ the Constitution
    Feb. 7, 2009 5:05 p.m.

    For all the wingnuts above who somehow think that Congress - and the rest of the federal government - does not have the proper constitutional authority to regulate the use of federal lands, I suggest you read the Property Clause of the Constitution, Art. IV, 3, cl. 2.

    "The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."

    If you want to read a definitive interpretation of this clause, I suggest you look up Kleppe v. New Mexico (U.S. Supreme Court, 426 U.S. 529 (1976)).

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 7, 2009 5:23 p.m.

    ATV's are much like drinking beer in Utah. You can't drink beer in public parks because of a few fools who caused trouble. You can't lite fireworks because of a few who started fires. You can't take you dog for a walk in canyons east of Slat Lake they might hurt the watershed. Welcome to the world, the rest of us reside in.

  • Thinkin' Man
    Feb. 7, 2009 5:27 p.m.

    I cheer for the protestors. We need to reign in out-of-control Federal bureaucrats who know nothing about Western lands and have probably never been here. They are simply power-hungry, and do these kinds of things because they think they can.

    Those who live on the land should have the greatest say in what happens on the land--not D.C. lawyers.

  • RE: READ the Constitution
    Feb. 7, 2009 6:52 p.m.

    Utah is NOT a territory.

    All lands in Utah belong to utah,

    But the Feds keep wanting to take Utah's lands by executive decree and at the behest of environmental wackos.

  • Thank God for Federal bueaucrats
    Feb. 7, 2009 7:03 p.m.

    I remember driving up to Willard Peak from Mantua (Box Elder County) in the 1970s with my dad. We made it in an old Ford Station Wagon with little problem. A couple of years ago I tried to take my own family up there in a Subaru Outback and we couldn't make it, the road had been so messed up by ATVs. The places I used to camp around Dock's Flat have all been trashed.

    I appreciate that there needs to be areas for people who ride four-wheelers and motorcycles to enjoy themselves, but leave the rest of us some pristine areas to enjoy for ourselves.

  • Maloney is full of baloney
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:01 p.m.

    Now that Bush is out of the way, thank goodness someone is looking out for our wilderness areas. We can't afford to have kooks like Malone and the rest of you anti-environmentalists tearing up the land and selling it off like slices of pizza to greedy oil interests.

    To those who feel otherwise.. deal with it for another 4 years!!!!! We had to live with the Bush administration's retarded environmental decisions. Now you get to live with ours.

  • UintaBasinite
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:23 p.m.

    To: Geezer,

    Many of those independent oil/gas companies you talk about are either autonomous subsidiary companies of the large brand-name oil companies, or independents who have non-disclosed contracts with the big boys doing their bidding. Not always, but mostly so.

    Nine mile is an independent company that got most of those lease rights through Bush's circumventing lawful and regulatory standards, who has already existing arrangements with Andrako gas (a very large independent natural gas explorer/driller) who in turn is getting all the Basin's natural gas linked into the national Big Boys distribution grid which will subject all this gas to the outrageous speculation that's been part of our economic woes, that continues to drive the windfall profits of the big gas companies, while the damage to environment, watershed and national treasures get raped, pillaged and damaged by the so called 'small independent gas companies.'

    Believe me, the independent gas companies cannot exist without the big boys being deep into their operations. It's the fact that they are 'independently' owned that keeps the shenanigans out of the public eye and scrutiny.

    Big, little, independent or publicly traded, they're still the same.

  • Boozer
    Feb. 7, 2009 8:46 p.m.

    "Right now, I can't take my kid off the side of the road and teach him how to ride his motorcycle unless it's been designated by the federal government as an open area" - Karl Malone

    That quote perfectly sums up what is wrong with some (not all) ATVers. A hundred years ago, I can see Malone's grand-dad saying "Right now, I can't take my kid hunting elk unless he gets one of those government licenses". The arrogance that assumes you can do whatever you want, wherever you want on the land that belongs to us all, is what got us here in the first place. It's an entitlement attitude.

  • Blame Bush
    Feb. 7, 2009 9:07 p.m.

    Bush had 8 years to open up these lands for auction, but only does so in the last weeks of his presidency.

  • More Truth
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:38 p.m.

    Congress has no power to own land other than the specific types of land enumerated in Article I Section 8. Only land for the District of Columbia, forts, magazines and other needful buildings. The power to regulate property given Congressin Article IV Section 3, is merely that power incidental to Congress' role as disposer of the property that came into the federal government's hands through various means. Congress has no constitutional authority to hang on to all the millions upon millions of acres of BLM and Forest ground. I'm not saying that ground not remain public land. I'm saying that title to the land should be conveted to the respective states. Then the states can hold onto that ground as public lands. But there's no constitutional authority for Congress to hold title to the ground, unless it's part of the District of Columbia, or forts, magazines and other needful buildings, and only then after a State's legislature agrees.

    The Kleppe decision does not alter this truth. All Kleppe stands for is the proposition that as long as the feds own land, Congress can regulate it. But Congress must dispose of it. The truth.

  • Congress Tear Down That Wall
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:46 p.m.

    Show me where in the Constitution that Congress has the power to own all these BLM lands. No, Article IV Section 3 cl. 2 is not correct. That section merely makes Congress the branch of federal government - as among the three - the one to do the actual disposing of property. Remember people, territory came into the hand of the federal government in different ways over the last two hundred years. But the only power the Constitution gave Congress with respect to land in general (other than the District of Columbia, forts, magazines and other needful buildings) IS TO DISPOSE OF IT. Yes, Kleppe is right, that during such time that Congress holds title, then Congress has the say. But Kleppe begs the question, whether Congress may simply hang on to the land or should Congress dispose of it.

    This is a union of separate stand alone states. This is not some big facist nation with 50 mere servile provinces. Notice its United States of America, not United Provinces of the Nation State of America. The Feds exist to serve the states, not vis versa.

  • States Don't Grovel
    Feb. 7, 2009 10:56 p.m.

    States are not mere geographical units of one large monolithic nation state. The Federal Government was chartered by the States, not to take over the States, but to serve the States by peforming several strictly limited powers deemed best to be exercised on a federal level.

    States, stand up to the feds. Congress and Obama have trampled the Constitution with their bailout and stimulus bills. Such deficit spending is illegal. Why do states and cities grovel at the pig troth. This is deterioration of states rights, slowly and surely. Our nation is sinking to despotism, socialism and State servitude of federal bureaucracies. States are the last thin blue line against Tyranny. These massive trillion dollar spending bills loom like a thick black evil on the land. It's a terrible usurpation of power found nowhere in the constitution. Where in the Constitution does it say that Congress may dole out a trillion dollars. That is socialism. All I can say is help. Our country is being ravished right before our very eyes. The enviros, the democrat wackos ramming this spending. Dark forces are gatering on the land. America is in trouble. More and more judges are liberal legislators. Tyranny.

  • Obama I Know Your Deception
    Feb. 7, 2009 11:05 p.m.

    The jackals and hyenas of the enviro left are circling, and marching to the direction of their overlord Obama. They are like those hideous armies of half dead creatures who marched on the righteous people in Lord of The Rings for the big battle. Obama is leading a carefully crafted, purposeful, malicious campaign to tear down America, take away her greatness, and make America into a mediocre socialist state. The jackal enviro groups smell blood. They are on a grim march, with their blood lust goal: the annihilation of americal western rural civilization. They will relentlessly march until rural civilization is extinct. That is their malicious and evil goal. Give public lands to States to run and manage. Federal ineptitude and bloated bureacracies make the simplest solutions take months and years to carry out. A big bloated monster, is the Federal Government. My bloood run cold as I think about the legions of ghouls and fruit cakes who make up the national wilderness lobby; their blood lust, again, is the killing off of rural western American civilization. We know your game. Bring it on leftists. This is cultural war.

  • oh the irony
    Feb. 8, 2009 12:17 a.m.

    The Bush administration did not rush into action in trying to auction off the 77 parcels of land. This has been 7 years in the making, which I'm sure hardly anyone realizes. This issue also goes beyond atv trails and motorcycles, this deals with rs2477 roads in the state, which everyone has used at one point or another. The rs2477 roads of the state lead to resources that lie on school trust land. If the environmental nut jobs let us go there, use our resources, the education department would be wealthier than anything in the state with the royalties they'd receive. Smarter kids equals smarter technology, but oh well who cares. Zero population is what this earth really needs right???

  • Environmentalism
    Feb. 8, 2009 12:24 a.m.

    Environmentalism is not an ideology, it is a religion that instead of worshipping the Creator, worships the creation

  • Re: Environmentalism | 12:24
    Feb. 8, 2009 11:10 a.m.

    Environmentalism is a religion if Rush Limbaugh is a religion.

    The contraposition of your statement is that anti-environmentalism is the worship of evil men who would destroy the creation that you rely on to survive. Acting like stewardship is "radical", is where true nuttiness exists.

  • Eco Destroyers in Utah
    Feb. 8, 2009 11:36 a.m.

    Representative Noel and those who share his ideology do not seem to possess much in terms of values or intellectual horsepower. If ATV users in general were responsible, there would be far less regulation of their activities. Regulation is a response to wanton destruction of scenic values and resources that is rampant all over this state.

    Furthermore, the thinking of this "no restrictions" or "no holds barred" group is so contradictory that it is comical. They only want their "no restrictions" philosophy adopted as it relates to the environment, but they seem to believe in regulation and laws elsewhere. What if we applied the no laws/no rules philosophy everywhere? No rules for the banking industry? No drug laws? No speed limits? No enforcement at the U.S. border? No tax laws? The philosophy of those that have no regard for the environment is as bankrupt as today's financial industries.

  • Re Nine Mile.
    Feb. 8, 2009 12:32 p.m.

    If you think that responsible drilling will not harm the environment, rake any flight over southern Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado and look out your window. It is amazing that all of this responsible drilling can be seen from for mile and mile and mile and miles and mile and mile and, miles. Get the picture?

  • Wow
    Feb. 8, 2009 1:53 p.m.

    Love all the constitution experts here. Just remember that it is YOUR interpretation and only an interpretation, unless it is backed up by rulings from the supreme court. Just because you feel that the constitution says one thing doesn't mean it does. If it were that clear we wouldn't need the courts to do anything more that judge criminal cases and we would only have 2 seperate but equal branches of government, the legislature and the executive.

  • To Re Nine Mile
    Feb. 9, 2009 10:20 a.m.

    Yeah . . . So? You can see what? Dirt roads? So?

    You enviro-bullies have dreamed up a constitutional right not to see any sort of development or any activity you disagree with. I've got news for you, pal, there's nothing like that in the Constitution!

    You've overplayed your hand. The protesters are now on the other side. At the end of a single Obama term, the Nation will be so outraged at the negative effects your communitarian socialism has had on the economy -- and the environment -- that your sacred cows, the National Environmental Policy and Endangered Species Acts will be scrapped.

    And we'll return to the rule of reason.

    It can't happen too soon.

  • cows
    Feb. 9, 2009 11:45 a.m.

    As someone who raises cattle on BLM lands I can tell you that many recreational users cause much damage. They tear up the land until there is nothing left and they harass, steal and ocassionaly kill wildlife and domestic livestock in their pursuit of fun. I understand public lands are public but if you want to ride your motorized vehicles take it to somewhere that's already torn up and be respectful of the people who make their lives off that land.

  • To cows | 11:45
    Feb. 9, 2009 12:36 p.m.

    Just so's you know -- you're next on the enviro-wacko agenda. They won't be happy until there is no ranching on any public land. And, I'm sure I don't have to tell you, they're nearly there with the increases in fees for grazing leases you've seen over the recent past.

    It's only a matter of time before they insist fees be raised to the point it makes ranching public land prohibitive.

    As bothersome as the four-wheelers are, they're your allies in this fight.

    The war is over access. Recreationalists want some. Enviro-wackos want none.

  • justwondering
    Feb. 9, 2009 1:30 p.m.

    When I read some of these, although I personally agree, the scools mustof bin ovrcrouded in their day two.

  • Belva
    Feb. 11, 2009 8:21 p.m.

    I love the environment and I love atvs. I raised my kids on atvs. I just want to say I have never gone off an existing road or trail. I have never ripped down a fence or gate. I don't want to make new trails or roads. All I ask is that the existing routes remain open. All I ask is that my grand-children get to enjoy the sport I love so much. All I ask is that my not so young, not so healthy, aging friends be able to enjoy the back country that would be shut off to them if they had to access it on foot, still have the oportunity to see public lands in their OHVs. I am for multi-use of our public lands. I am also for protecting our lands. This is not a contradiction in terms.