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Dick Harmon: Utah fans fuel the fire behind heated rivalry

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  • Can't wait
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:14 a.m.

    Man, 5 more days. It's almost as bad as waiting 2 weeks for the Super Bowl! Go Blue!

  • OK it's 4
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:17 a.m.

    But it's still Monday here in Washington!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:18 a.m.

    Harmon you have once again showed what a poor reporter you truly are. BYU shows just as much animosity and hatred as Utah shows BYU. You show us all how blind Cougar nation is, thinking how they are better than the rest of us. I'm amazed...

  • AK Cougar
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:37 a.m.

    Antoher good article Mr. Harmon. The personal interest stories from the players are great in rivalry week. I am hopeful the Jan Jorgenson and the rest of the Cougars have a great game, no one on either side get hurt and they all play very well. Cougars by 3, 24 - 21.

  • UTE 56
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:39 a.m.

    no doubt... Harmon I will never read another "piece" article from you...you are a terrible (Walton) journalist....BYU hates Utah every bit as much

  • Wow...
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:46 a.m.

    Way to cherry-pick those quotes Mr. Harmon. Zoobs have been drinking this Kool-aid for a while. I honestly don't know why they still think, let alone say anything about "caring less." When their actions say SO much more.

    Just last year when I held my nose and went to the U/Y hoop game in Provo, I'm sitting behind some guy with a Y ball cap on that has "4th and 18" embroidered into the back. Are you kidding me?! And, they don't care about the rivalry, right?

    I still see "Harline's still open" coming out of zoob pie holes. I recall some zoobies taking that sign to where the Utes plane landed in Oregon last season before the OSU game.

    Trust me, they care. It won't help them much this year, but they care very much. When they say they don't care, it's in years they know they'll likely lose, like some 5-year-old on the playground.

  • Get out much?
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:56 a.m.

    Attention Dick Harmon: The University of Utah was founded in 1850 under the direction of Brigham Young, territorial governor. To suggest that the coaches at Utah (three of which are former BYU players) spend all year hyping this game due to some pychosis, that it has anything to do with religion, or to be so ignorant to think that any college football fan - let alone a Cougar fan - doesn't get into their rivalry contest for any reason, is absurd. Please stick to politics. Sports is obviously not your thing.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:57 a.m.

    Ahhhhhh, Dick..... Welcome to 2008. The series is tied 10-10 over the last 20 years. The current players wouldn't remember the series being one-sided. The programs have been equal for two decades.

    "Utah's philosophy on defense and offense is designed to take advantage of BYU weaknesses." Ummmm, Utah's philosophy on defense is to stop their opponents. They have 13 of them throughout the year. Utah's philosophy on offense is designed to keep their opponents off balance and to attack their weaknesses. Again, Utah has 13 teams they prepare for.

    Your statement is true for this week. The statement is also true if you switch the school names around. BYU will also attempt to take advantage of Utah's weaknesses.

    If you don't think the Y gets up for the games at the same level as the U then I'm guessing you never played a game of football in your life. Both teams have the same level of passion and are equally motivated for this game.

    Read the blogs and you will find the fans are the same on both sides. It's called a rivalry. This rivalry was once controlled by the U, then by the Y, now it's equal.

    52-33-4 UTAH!!!!

  • Utes obnoxious
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:02 a.m.

    U and Y students mostly come from Utah and are mostly Mormon. The main difference is most Utes live at home with Mom. From outside Utah, you guys all look alot alike. I love the play at religious differences. Big deal from where I stand...

  • Thanks Dick.....
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:15 a.m.

    For once again showing us YOUR true feelings toward the U. of Utah!

    You are absolutely a byu homer and a very poor writer. I for one are soooooo glad you are pro byu and anti Utah.

    The level of passion is equal from the coaching staffs to the players on each team.

    This is byu's BCS game. It's a huge game for them.

    This is Utah's opportunity to go to their 2nd BCS game in four years. It's a huge game for them.

    Wake up and join us in the year 2008. 1984 is nearly a quarter of a century past. Ronald Reagan was in his 1st term as president and none of the current players were born. Utah's domination ended 40 years ago and BYU's ended 20 years ago.

    This game means exactly the same to both teams, period. If you pulled out a GPS and actually found your way to the U, you would find their current players would downplay the rivalry to the media as well.

    Once again, your article reflects YOUR true feeling.

    Your article would have been fine if published in the late 70s or during the 80s but doesn't make sense in 2008.

  • Spot on, Harmon
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:23 a.m.

    Dick is calling it how he sees it. I'm a die-hard Cougar fan too, and it seems the BYU players don't get as fired up as the Utes. I imagine it has something to do with age but Utah has its share of RMs too.

    The fans on the other hand are a different story ... No difference. This is a fun rivalry.

  • Ron
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:27 a.m.

    You forgot to mention the significant body of BYU fans who are sick of being accused of "playing the church card" and "thinking we're better than everyone else". To all Ute fans, LDS and non-: can we stick to football please?

  • Big Mouth
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:31 a.m.

    This player saying that Utah fans hate them because the Y has dominated the U for so long..PLEASE.. the last 20 year has not been domination. actually 2004 is what you call domination, 50+ points. The point is that Utah fans hate any Y zombies because they say dumb things like this, "we have dominated you". IT IS THIS SELF RIGHTEOUS AND ARROGANT attitude that we hate. We Utes trash talk as well, but we don't pretend to be anything but rabid fans. Essays like this Dick, insinuate that the kewgs are so well behaved and non affected, when they have BIG mouths like this jeorgensen dude.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:35 a.m.

    I don't know where you are getting this, BYU fans and players are just as much into the Holy War as the Ute fans. The passion for this rivalry is what makes it so great. Do some research about the rivalry next time.

  • Silly Bravado
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:43 a.m.

    Rivalry week is a chance for the young bucks to lock horns and duel one another with their dull bravado's. Bragging is a young man's game, which lends a flavor of immaturity to many of the posts.

  • The real reason
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:47 a.m.

    Why does Utah hate BYU? It is because of a double standard. If a Utah player spent time in jail,(as some have and probably will again--not a slam, just a fact), it is no big deal.No one expects any better from Utah! At BYU,a player who had these problems wouldn't make the student body, let alone the team. Now before you start throwing names of BYU players who did bad things, I hasten to point out that not only did most of them get booted, sometimes the coach did as well. If a BYU player or fan looses his cool and says something of does something the least bit "inappropriate", everyone from Utah (and other places) points their fingers and shouts, "hypocrite". If a Utah player steps out of line, so what? Why do some BYU fans hate U of U? Have you ever gone to a game in RES if you are a BYU fan? Last time I was there,we are treated to drunk, X rated Utah fans and my family and I vowed never to go back.So much for "hated' rivalries.

  • sob
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:34 a.m.

    the biggest difference is that at res you can get a diet coke, not sneak it in like you have to at les

    by the way i have had a companion smacked in the mouth by a byu coed (no this is not another joke)
    when utes won triple overtime basketball game

    and have seen byu fans throw drinks and a blanket over the head of oregon fans at a game in provo .

    i once heard a man dressed in a blue suit and white shirt and tie yell to a ute basketball player who was black,,, "smile more so we can see where you are"

    boorish behavior is not excluded by the honor code i guess

  • Amused
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:42 a.m.

    What a funny article. I can appreciate that Harmon "bleeds blue" and that is where this is coming from. But really? The writer tries to make an emperical assessment of something as subjective and malleable as which fans bring more vitriole to the rivalry? Not only is the whole premise of this column ridiculous, but the writer then attempts to add varnish to the false veneer by quoting how BYU players "feel" going into Rice Eccles.

    The truth is, BYU has been out of the national spotlight for a long time. True, they had a few weeks this season carrying the banner of potential BCS buster, but that quickly faded. The only real noteriety either school has received came in 2004 and now, with Utah on the cusp of another BCS return this year. Both times the Utes have been the center of national attention, not BYU. So yeah, Utah must envy BYU and that is why they are passionate about the rivalry. If that sort of envy gets a team a BCS bowl win and puts them in position for another--I'll take it, with deleusions of BYU fans in tow.

  • Mark Barton
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:43 a.m.

    When I first started attending BYU in 1989 as a freshman coming from the Seattle area I had never even heard of the University of Utah. I later thought that Utah State and Utah were one in the same school. I attended BYU with several other out of state students who thought the same. That would partially explain to me why the rivalry isn't as big of a deal to BYU students.

  • Proved his point
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:08 a.m.

    The way Utah fans have responded to Mr. Harmon's article proves how overwhelmingly one-side the hatred is.

    btw, I see the Utes are counting the spring 1896 scrimmage in their win total; just shows how deparate they are for any win. When is the U going to stop counting their wins over high schools and intramural teams in their overall record?

    The overall series record is 49-30-4.

  • To U fans: Be afraid, be very..
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:17 a.m.

    U fans are nervous. There is so much riding on this game! I can't remember a game with these implications.

  • Utah Forever
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:29 a.m.

    Jorgensen thank U for going to BYU--U belong on that team.

  • Easy on Harmon
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:31 a.m.

    Once again the inferiority complex of Ute fan is evident by what's been posted so far. Utes define their existense based on their ability to beat the Cougs. Harmon is right, I've been to both stadiums during rivalry week and Ute fan without question is downright hate-filled. It's also important to note here: if Ute fan can't win the game he/she attacks Cougar fan. Anyone remember Ute fan swinging fists at the family of a Y player after a Utes loss in SL a few years back?

    The unfortunate thing this year is the undertones of the Prop 8 passing in CA. The church [and by association BYU] has become a proverbial punching bag for opponents of Prop 8. The atmosphere at the U lends itself more to being a haven to the gay and lesbian lifestyle. It would be unfortunate, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a few signs in the stands expressing the tolerance and respect that is being so graciously showed to the LDS church these days for standing up for their beliefs.

  • Are you kidding me?
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:33 a.m.

    Dick Harmon continues to show his inability to publish a piece of intelligent, objective journalism. If there is a bigger BYU homer out there, I would like to meet him. It's a rivalry game. Ohio St. and Michigan hate each other ALL year long. Auburn and Alabama hate each other ALL year long. I live among Cougar fans. I read the message boards. They hate the Utes ALL year long.

  • Ute Lover
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:40 a.m.

    I live on the east coast and don't get too much coverage of the U or the Y but have loved the rivalry for years. This year is no exception. Its strange how you think Harmon. This years game is big because both teams are good...one team can upset the illogical BCS. One team got clobbers by TCU playing away and the other beat TCU team by few points at home. The results would have been different had the field changed. Anyone should love this years game because it will be competitive. I am not a Y fan because in big games like this, you and your "fans" often show pre-game softness...always saying things like..."oh, its no big deal...just another game"...."Utah takes games like this too serious"....and then get all puffed up when the .500 winning percentage falls your way.

    Not to Harmon and the "Coogie Nation"...grow stones...be fans...pull for your team hard before and after the game...when you win...win like a pro...and when you loose....loose like a pro...its no fun when you act ambivalent pre-game and then change posture only after a win...

    Go Utes....

  • A "sheepish" fan base!
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:49 a.m.

    I don't hate the Ewet's! I hate their fans! Well at least the ones that really think this is about religion.

    My LDS Ewet friends are tolerable and I relish the back and forth with them. It's all about stats, how the year has gone, players that cry, etc. Heck, more than 50% of the Ewet staff, players, school admin, and fans are LDS. So why is this a "Holy War"?

    But SOME non-LDS Ewet fans take this as another opportunity to rag on an institution or throw out insults that have nothing to do with this game of football.

    I've attended the last 2 games and I could not believe the filth coming from the Ewet fans' mouths during and after each game and they had NOTHING to do with football, and everything to do with actual hatred toward a persons religion and their religious leaders. And what does a banner that says "Hey Beck! I gave your Mom an STD!" have to do with football?

    Yes I would say that there is equal "hatred" on both sides, but at least BYU fans channel their hatred toward football instead of personal insults.

  • Blue Ute
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:53 a.m.

    Dick is right. I grew up around here and graduated from the U and then moved back East for 22 years. We had a Utah Banner and a BYU banner for our house and we would root for both teams throughout the season and then whoever would make the conference look best by winning the rivalry game. When we moved back a few years ago I felt that things had really changed. Many of the Utah fans I got to know had a disproportionate hate for BYU. While I suppose there are some fanatical BYU fans, the Ute fans seemed to have the clear majority who hate all things BYU. The operative word here is HATE. This year the conference will get another BCS opportunity if Utah wins. ( And BYU stands to get a big chunk of BCS money). So I am counting on Utah to win. But if BYU wins, I have to admit, it will be fun to see all of the sour grapes from the Die hard Utah fans.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:02 a.m.

    Since 1998 the the teams are 5-5 against each other. Since 1988 the teams are 10-10 against each other. I'm pretty sure Utah has stopped looking up at BYU. Still writing Herald pieces Dick.

  • Provo Daily Herald
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:13 a.m.

    I thought I was on the Desnews website not the Provo Daily Herald. Maybe the childish behavior is due to the fact that Utah will soon be headed to its second BCS game in four years. Enjoy Vegas again this year Dick. Maybe you guys can get beat by another mediocre 6-6 Cal team. The mountain west conference title is going to go through Salt Lake and Fort Worth for years to come. Start getting used to it.

  • The Spin Doctor
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:19 a.m.

    Ah another gem from Tricky Dick the spin doctor whose words fall from heaven to my ears like manna!

    Don't worry about the facts. You have all you need to spin the story so that everything is defined by BYU. And he wonders why virtually every team in the conference (or country if they were relevant) dislike BYU?

  • Utah alum
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:22 a.m.

    Both side have obnoxious fans, but Dick, you are skirting the real reason for the animosity. The real reason is that this game is all about school vs. religion. If it were school vs. school, I would gladly root for the U, but that isn't what much of it is about. It is about bashing Mormons. Therefore as a U grad (my wife also) I have to root for the blue. If (I doubt it ever will) change I will proudly wear crimson and white, or is it black and red?

  • Kafusi
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:24 a.m.

    BYU stole utahs D-line coach a few years ago for the sole purpose of preparing to play Utah every year.

  • DWR?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:26 a.m.

    I once had a girl have with me, which afterwards I can only discribe as a D.W.R. (Define WHAT relationship?). There was no relationship - we had gone on a few dates. In her mind, it seemed much more than that.

    Same goes for the BYU Utah rivalry. In all my years as a student at BYU, I never heard anyone talk about the U. No one cared that much about the commuter state school up north, or their "OK" football team.

    But the Utes have never been able to stop talking about BYU. They have a huge complex of small-man syndrome.

    The red-headed step child Utah is getting taken to school by Big Brother BYU on Saturday.

  • Recently became close?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:26 a.m.

    They are 10-10 over the last twenty years. Let's not act like Utah being competitive just started.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:34 a.m.

    I don't know if Utes are more passionate about this rivalry than BYU. I noticed that how my BYU grad. friends always tell me that as well. But I don't think that is the case by reading all the blogs about this game this weekend. It is very heated on BOTHSIDE. I think that is how it is regardless of what they say.

    Go Utes!!

  • ramper
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:35 a.m.

    "There's nothing like this in college football." You are joking right? You need to get out more often. Let's start with Army-Navy, Alabama-Auburn, and on, and on, and on.

  • Are you kidding me?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:37 a.m.

    I still can't believe the stupidity of this article. Deseret News, are you actually paying Harmon to write this stuff?

    "And there is a hype disconnect. Utah feeds off it; BYU manages it." This statement makes me want to throw up.

    After this article, a Utah fan could say ANYTHING and it still wouldn't be as stupid as this.

  • ZEBA
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:41 a.m.

    Harmon, please listen to some sports radio in the state and then I think it is clear that Ute and Cougar fans are pretty close in animosity. This is one reason I stopped listening to sports radio in Utah, because I find the bickering between the fans to be ridiculously insane. I'm one of the rare Utahns that likes to see both schools do well. My bro. who is a huge BYU fan shows a lot of animosity towards the Utes.

    Prediction: Utes - 34, BYU - 21

  • utahcountyute
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:45 a.m.

    Hey zoobs if Harline is still open, maybe he should get a job! Perhaps a Uof U grad can hire him! GO Utes!!

  • can someone in Provo confirm
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:46 a.m.


    that BYU is formerly known as Brigham Young High School?
    Thx

  • Albuquerque Coog Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:50 a.m.

    I believe the reason that there are more Ute Fans in Utah, and especially the Wasatch Front, is that most Utah students are from Utah, they live by their moms and dads, and can't imagine living outside of the 'shadows of the everlasting hills.' Whereas BYU Fans come from around the world and all 50 states, and then return to those 50 states to work and live. They are not afraid to venture outside of their comfort zone. I think both schools are great institutions of higher education and have great fans who support their teams. The difference is that one fan base is local, and one is national/global.

  • Johnny Moser
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:52 a.m.

    Familiarity breeds contempt.

    Grew up in wyoming, torn between brown/gold and BYU blue. Attended games in Laramie, SLC and Provo. Found that the fans in SLC and Laramie to be the most disrepectful and vulgar people I had ever meet on earth at that point in my life, and they still rank right up in the top 5 today.

    It is ok to have passion about a sporting event, but when it is taken to the level that is too often seen in Laramie and SLC, when you offend and belittle, its time to grow up and get something in your life that matters.

    Maybe that is why the "laramie finger" was not be unexpected last year. That is why the cops will have to escort fans out of the stadium on saturday and why we will probable hear about several assault charges filed from within the antics of sports enthusiasts.

    A week from now it won't really matter.

    GO Blue. 28-24.

  • BYU @ PSU
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:54 a.m.

    First of all, I remember well the time when this was a lopsided rivalry (and I'm not much older than many of the current players). Much of that 10-10 split record has came in the late 90s to early 00s when the Utes made up some ground and beat BYU several times. And certainly the coaching staffs are old enough (some were even players) to remember when the rivalry was more onesided than it is now, so I think Harmon hit that one squarely on the head (not to say that that is the only reason the rivalry exists, by any means). Secondly, I think Ute fans do have a lot more vested in the rivalry. When Utah loses, there are people calling for the coaches head, regardless of how the rest of the season went. When BYU loses, the fans are crushed, but they don't try to fire the athletic department. It seems that the success of Utah's season (for the fans) is determined by their performance against BYU. Whereas BYU fans measure success on more of a national level. Losing to Utah wouldn't preclude a bowl game and top ten finish, for example.

  • Bob2
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:00 a.m.

    You and Mr. Jorgensen's theories make about as much sense as saying, "BYU has simply thrown aside passion for this rivalry because they are so hopelessly behind the U since it began. They just gave up caring because it hurt too much to look at that disparity." Utah OWNS this rivalry, but I would not be so stupid as to suggest that the average Y fan cares about that on this Tuesday morning.

  • Outside Utah -Cougar
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:07 a.m.

    I got more excited for the BYU ASU games being from Arizona until that one day I took my 16 year old brother up to Rice Eckles Stadium for the BYU Utah game. Then it changed... I entered a stadium filled with hate like no other stadium. I had seen BYU play in many other venues and this venue had the intensity and dislike for another team I have never seen. I've been to Texas/OU, Michigan/OSU, ASU/UofA games and I had never seen this level of hatred and disrespect for the opponent. My 16 year old brother was hit in the head with a bottle as we sat in the U section (scalped tickets) and my eyes became open to this hatred from up north. The language was unreal with more Fbombs than I heard in a full week at the inner city basketball courts of Chicago. I learned that day how much this game means to the U fans. The number of out of state Cougars is easily 5-10 times the number of out of state Utes. That day made the rivalry for me. I like to see Utah lose now just because of the disgusting/low class behavior.....

  • Not again
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:10 a.m.

    Another holier than thou, we are better than you, prideful attitude coming from someone associated with BYU. Not very becoming from a unbiased reporter.

  • Don't Care?
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:17 a.m.

    Last year's basketball game at the Huntsman center, Zoob fans were chanting "4th and eighteen". So you are telling me that they don't care? Please.

  • Texas BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:17 a.m.

    Just want to remind the Utes, regardless of the outsome of Saturday's game:

    one team has a national championship, one team doesn't.

    Just wanted to remind you.

  • Wow Dick!
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:32 a.m.

    Wow Dick! Have you ever read the stuff BYU fans post on your comment pages? This is not a one way street, there are idiots on both sides of this rivalry.

  • Hey DICK!
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:34 a.m.

    Look at how many stupid coogs have commented on your page, and then tell me who has more passion in the rivalry. When utah won 4 years in a row, ute fans didnt say anything or rub it in to coog fans, we just acted like we had actually won a game before. But I have heard harline is still open, and 4th and 18 almost every day since they have happened.

  • As If a Stirring up were needed
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:39 a.m.

    Wow. This article seems to be an attempt, a good one, to get us all worked up to hate each other more. Is that really necessary? These are great games to be a part of. That is why they sell out before the season even gets going. The players and fans look forward to it all year. There have been some good ones. This year is shaping up to be a "heck" of a fun one. I remember a couple years ago sitting in LES through the cold snow and rain to watch the Utes walk all over the Cougars. My son was loving it and I was hating it.

    I just hope the powers that be will move this game from the MTN to a Network where more can watch the game.

  • McKay
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:39 a.m.

    The funny thing is that at the 2 Utah games I watched this year, I saw signs and posters taking shots at BYU... that's what an inferiority complex looks like Utah fans, and that just validates Harmons point, at least in regards to the fans.

  • ROFL
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:40 a.m.

    So Cougy Country shakes there head in bemusment and wonder why Utes can't stand them? Let's try the holier than thou stance from the players and the fans. I am LDS and I love this week simply because I love listening to the Cosmo Crazies try to shrug off a loss as if they didn't care or if they win all the chest thumping they do. Dick Harmon is just getting ready to sound like he's on the high road if they lose.

  • Buster
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:40 a.m.

    Utah's fans, palyers and coaches infereiority complex is self-created.

    You guys have a good team this year.

    Be proud of them, win or lose.

    And really, you can't act all surprised and dumbfounded if they lose. bYU has a good team also.

    It all comes down to how they play on this particular Saturday.

  • To: anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:45 a.m.

    You're "amazed", I'm really amazed at comments about how BYU fans think they're better than everybody else. If you feel inferior don't blame it on BYU fans. Feelings of inferioty don't come from others, it comes from within you. Wearing red can also make one feel inferior.

  • Goes both ways
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:46 a.m.

    "Anyone remember Ute fan swinging fists at the family of a Y player after a Utes loss in SL a few years back? "

    Yep, and I also remember reading about a Utah fan being head-butted by a BYU fan at last years game. It goes both ways, and there's jackhole fans on both sides of the rivalry. People need to quit trying to make the other team's fans out to be depraved demons (or portray your side as haloed angels), since anyone with half a brain can see right through that nonsense.

    I've had season tickets at RES for 10 years now, and have never once seen anything like what many BYU fans claim happens on a regular basis. Although I have to admit some of their descriptions of the drunken, X-rated debauchery that supposedly goes on at RES make me a bit jealous. Are Utah fans more rowdy? Probably. Is the language a bit saltier? Sure (we don't all live in the Utah County bubble, and many of us are - gasp - non-LDS!). But RES is no worse than any other college stadium I've ever been to.

  • Proper Perspective
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:46 a.m.

    This is not a Holy War, it is a game. It is fun, a lot of resources are poured in, but completely non-consequential.

    War is what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, or perhaps that conflict between good and evil. Missionaries prosyletize for 2yrs representing the good side etc.

    This is only a game.

  • Pathetic
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:48 a.m.

    As amazing as this sounds, I'm actually mesmerized by this Dick "Cougar-Club" Harmon article. You would think that after 30 years of his distinguished career covering the same team I'd know what to expect. To all Cougar fans, and media fans like Harmon, this article is why your team is hated anywhere they go, not just up on the hill. No other team has the arrogance and high-horse attitude towards every opponent, even one that is about to achieve what Bronco and his clones live for, a trip to the BCS.

    Dick, ever listen to sports talk radio in the state of Utah? I do, every day, and during rivalry week there is no more hatred from Ute fans than Cougar fans, it's a very equal balance. Growing up this was a fundamental argument of BYU fans, Utah cared more. Funny, but I was at the game down south last year and watched BYU fans storm the field and carry Brian Kiel off on their shoulders. I also watched BYU players storm the field two years ago, including your god-like coach. Guess you forgot those games. Your saying those games meant nothing huh, another crack reporting job from Harmon!!!

  • Re: Texas BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:49 a.m.


    there are always some who want to live in the past, deny the present and not looking forward...

  • Rich
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:49 a.m.

    I guess Mr. Harmon does not want to hear my stories as a Utah Fan living in Provo.
    I was pushed by a 50 year old man for standing up and cheering as Utah Completed a pass. It was disgusting.

    BYU and Utah fans get into this way too much.
    Mr. Harmon, this article is a joke, and is completely one sided, but what ever makes you sleep.

  • Mike
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:52 a.m.

    Absolute rubbish Dick! This is the same old garbage we have been hearing for years--the game means more to Utah than to BYU. If that's the case, why has BYU named every win it has over the past ten years. "Lavell's Last Miracle," "Doink," "Staley Down the Sideline," "Answered Prayer," "Collie 4:18." Utah doesn't name its wins. It just kicks BYU's butt just like it has 9 out of the last 15. And it will again Saturday. Somewhere, John Beck is crying.

  • Re: Sob
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:53 a.m.

    reminds me of the early years of Majerus at the U, and they played Arizona up on the hill... I went to that game and sat by the student section and heard them yelling the N word at the Arizona players throughout the game.. After the game Lute Olsen said the Utah fans were the most classless fans he had ever coached in front of in his entire coaching career. Made me proud to be a BYU fan that day!

  • re: Hey DICK!
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:55 a.m.

    Are you serious? Kind of like the 34-31 T shirts you all wore for over a decade right?

  • Ute fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:57 a.m.

    Albuquerque coug fan - you can keep your Albuquerque! Talk about a horrible place to live. The only reason BYU has fans around America is because of the church. Im glad your rich mom and dad were able to send you to BYU. Thats your parents accomplishment not yours.

    By the way there are Ute fans everywhere. Im representing from the great state of Florida. And I cant wait to support my Utes at RES this Saturday.

    On the bright side maybe Albuquerque coug will be able to see his cougs play in the New Mexico Bowl.

  • Kudzu
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:58 a.m.

    I don't dislike the Utah team. They appear to be a good group of guys and they have played well this year and deserve all the attention they have received. I also do not dislike the Utah fans. I know both of them and they are generally pretty nice people. I just can't stand the BYU/MORMON HATERS, which seems to be the majority of people that pull for the Utes this time of year.

    BYU fans don't HATE the Utes. We see it as a strong rivalry. But most of the Ute fans HATE BYU, or the Mormon church, and it shows in everything they do.

  • KJ in Pennsylvania
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:59 a.m.

    hahahahaha Ute fans are funny.

  • Lost Ownership
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:59 a.m.

    Sorry Utah fans, but the Utes fumbled away ownership rights to the rivalry when the Utes lost 18 out of 20 games from 1972 to 1992.

  • puzzled
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:02 a.m.

    of course this has a byu overtone, and of course cougar fans comment on it...Harmon is the Cougar beat writer! does that confuse you or what? his job is to cover the byu side.

  • Coug fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:03 a.m.

    Thought the article was interesting. I do enjoy your article's, but I personally don't think a Ute fan could hate BYU as much as I hate the utes. Go cougs!

    The perfect season for me would be BYU 12-0 and the Utes 0-12.

  • Classic Ute Fan who doesn't care
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:04 a.m.

    "Hey DICK! | 7:34 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    Look at how many stupid coogs have commented on your page."

    Look at the business as usual. Look at the class. Look at the calling spelling of cougar. Do they not know how to spell, or has third grade creative name calling become the norm?

    Dick's article makes Ute fans angry because #1) He knows how to articulate what is going on, and #2) He is dead on right.

    Only the Utah Fans can change their culture of hatred, but to take it out on Dick Harmon is really not right, it only underscores the reality of the hatred that permeates the Ute fandom.

    Why do Ute Fans need the hatred this year, anyway?

  • Ute fan is despicable
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:06 a.m.

    Ute fans are despicable. Anyone with an ounce of intellectual capacity, knows Ute fan, as a rule, will not hesitate to use vulgarities. BYU fan, won't. Its unarguable! Case closed--Ute fan is despicable and lower class of fan.

  • Holy War ?
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:10 a.m.

    I know what side BYU represents, so can I infer that the Utes are on the opposite side?? The first reference I heard to a "Holy War" was BYU vs. Notre Dame. This contest is anything but a so called holy war.

  • Chuck Farley
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:11 a.m.

    It's simple. It's called an inferiority complex, and the Utes have it.

  • Ben
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:11 a.m.

    Very Interesting. Brings back memories. I enrolled as a freshman at B.Y.U. in 1943. I was given a file card with a piece of wood glued to it. The message informed me that the wood was taken from the goal postw the last time B.Y.U beat the U. in football. (I think the year was 1923) I finished a couple of years and then dropped out for a mission and then work, marriage, and etc. During the work phase I enrolled at the U. of New Mexico. Transferred my credits from the Y. They found a place for all my religion classes. Some were History, some Philosophy, or Sociology. A few years later I transferred to the U. of U. They accepted my U. of N.M. credits, but none of my B.Y.U. religion credits. Not even Scoutmaster Training. Some of my other classes were cut by a third or half. I thought it was interesting.

  • Inferiority vs. Reality
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:12 a.m.

    Inferiority has nothing to do with it, it's called reality. Utah fans are realistic. It's reality that we went to the BCS in 2004 and completed an undefeated season. It's reality that all BYU fans and players talked about since last season's miraculous victory over UCLA is getting to where Utah has been, the BCS. It's reality that come Saturday Utah will complete ANOTHER undefeated season with a win over the kittens and go to ANOTHER BCS game. I give Harmon credit, he's a lot smarter than I thought he was. He's using some reverse-pyschology to cover his jealousy and own inferiorty not only towards the Utes, but also towards Boise State and Hawaii, for they have also accomplished what the Cougs could not, BCS.

  • Really
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:16 a.m.

    Utah gets up for this game as does everybody else in the conference when they play BYU. I would say it's because of BYU's winning records in football, but even in sports where BYU doesn't win a lot the other conference schools love to beat BYU. I wonder why that is?

    For all who talk of Utah's "low class" fans because they swear, drink alcohol, or hate BYU, get out of the bubble a little more. Actually, ask Fisher DeBerry or UNLV about how much "class" BYU fans have. I've personally witnessed both sides showing terrible sportsmanship, at it's core it's only a game, but it sure is fun to cheer for your team. GO UTES!!!

  • Layton Lurker
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:16 a.m.

    Ah, Mr. Harmon -- looking through his blue-tint glasses. BYU's professional shill.

  • Ol' BYU fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:17 a.m.

    I see the Ute fans are going nuts on the Deseret News again. What Dick Harmon is saying is true overall. I'm sure you can find examples of boorish BYU fans and those who use bad behavior. I'm sure it's true. I'm also sure that we can find examples of Ute fans that are boorish and have bad behavior. What I've seen over the years is that the out of state students at BYU are not into the rivalry that much. Also there is an increasing number of kids in the state of Utah that attend Utah over BYU. My son received a scholarship from Utah when BYU wouldn't touch him. There is also an easy way for those who are against the Mormon church to "become" Utah fans as a way of showing their displeasure with the church. There are those Utah fans who only attend this one game and ignore all the other Utah games. True fans would support their team all year and yes, there are Utah fans who do that. The younger fans are the ones who get the most heated and have the most hatred. I like some Utah fans, just not all ot them.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:23 a.m.

    I'll take all ya'll anonymous posts seriously when you have the guts to post your name. Til then, peace.

  • Differences
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:23 a.m.

    The Rivalry is strongest in SLC. Utes and Cougars there hate each other with passion. You grow up being taunted by the other side (I grew up there being taunted by Cougars). So in SLC, Harmon is wrong. In California, Idaho, Cedar City, etc, of course there are not hard feelings towards the Utes. They haven't really experienced the rivalry in those places.

    One other piece of counterevidence: the players from both teams come out obviously more fired up than usual. There are more personal fouls than usual and more trash talk than usual - from both teams.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:23 a.m.

    I have been to games at both venues, as well as other heated rivalries around the country. while at the 2003 BYU-Utah game in Provo, I had a little kid spit on me three times while his dad snickered. It wasn't until other BYU fans stood up for this Utah fan that the guy even said anything to his kid about it. And I heard several f-bombs from byu fans while there. Sounds like a good wholesome family atmosphere. Fans are fans and do stupid things that they do not normally do any other time of the year. Get over it. IF you don't want to hear an occassional cuss word, have popcorn thrown around, then watch it on TV. I must say the most disrespectful fans I have ever experienced were in Wyoming. But, I love going to games in Laramie for the sole reason of watching them all leave with their heads down.

  • RE: Utes obnoxious 1:02am
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:23 a.m.

    Correction: The main difference is that most Utah students have a job.

  • Typical BYU drivel
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:24 a.m.

    Make sure we have a ready made excuse if and when we lose - "Utah cares about the game more than we do." Sure, we're all stupid enough to buy that. Over the years all Ute fans have heard the "we have a national championship," "we've won a Heisman," "Harline's still open," and "4th and 18" comments. For us LDS Ute fans, it usually comes during our church experience. BYU fans care as much, if not more, about this rivalry than Ute fans. Unquestionably, Y fans care more about having their built-in excuses and if that gives Y fans a measure of security in their insecure little worlds, I say let them think Utah cares more about this game. As Dick so eloquently states, it's "probably exactly that way."

  • Stupid Article
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    Dick...This was a stupid story, this was the best you could come up with during rivalry week? Both sides have fire and hate for each other. To say its worse on one side is dumb. Its a rivalry and both sides are suppose to and do hate each other. Find a better story to right than this, youre better than this. Utah fans still chant 34-31, BYU Fans still chant "Harline is still open" and "fourth and eighteen." I can't believe I wasted ten minutes of my life to read this. I want my ten minutes back!

  • Who'll show up?
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    With a lot riding on the outcome of this game for the Utes, I know that they will show up for the game. With BYU, ya just never know. They might come out like a pack of wild dogs and win this one, OR they may play like their at some family home evening two hand touch nerf football game and get embarassed. I have to take the Utes in this one, their at home and there is just too much at stake for the season.

  • Student at both.
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:30 a.m.

    Having attende multiple schools; including Utah and BYU - I find that BYU students are more driven by devotion to their own school, wheras U student are often driven by anitpathy towards the ideology that they project onto BYU. The majority of BYU students are not even from the state of Utah; to them it is just another football game (a student from So Cal is more likely to get psyched for the UCLA game): Although resident BYU fans are another matter.

    I find the whole "holy war" analogy to be deeply offensive: Please do not ever use the term again. The truth of anyones religion or ideology has no relationship to the outcome of this football game.

  • Anne
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:34 a.m.

    Are you kidding me?? I'm LDS, and I think it is horrible that BYU fans are making snide comments about Utah fans that aren't members. And then you will cry and pout when a Ute fan ridicules the church because of some idiotic statement like those in these posts. Hateful, intolerant rants by BYU fans not only make BYU look bad, but the LDS church as well. Life is more then football.

  • Re: Texas Byu Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:35 a.m.

    from crowtonlover

    I guess your piffy comment about 1984 has confirmed that you have no faith that the cougera will win saturday.

  • the difference is....
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:39 a.m.

    when BYU fans chant 4th and 18, we aren't throwing beer bottles at people at the same time. That's the difference between verbal jabbing and physical hatred. Having graduated from both schools and seen the fans reactions from the inside, there really is no comparison. Ute fans tend to get much angrier than BYU fans. Sure, these are generalizations, and there are great and nice Ute fans and there are stupid and angry BYU fans, too (which makes me cringe when I see them). But on the whole, Ute fans hate BYU more than the reverse.

  • Anne
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:40 a.m.

    Mr Harmon: Did you even think about interviewing Utah players in order to achieve a more balanced article? What are BYU fans and players going to say? That they themselves are the problem? I am just hoping that Utah feeds BYU a bit of humble pie this Saturday, although I am sure BYU fans will figure out a way to make it someone else's fault that they lost.

  • Ex Ute player
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    I just wanted to add my thoughts to dick's comment about Ute football players getting up more for this game compared to BYU's players. When I was there (2000-2004) We were prepared and treated this like any other game. Our game plan didn't change just because we were playing BYU. It would be nice if you actually went to Utah's practice to see this first hand but obviously your research is flawed.

  • Better Understanding
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    Utah Fan's have been whining the past two years about losing games they should have won. It's funny, what goes around comes around, as they won two games this year they should have lost. It appears the boys on the hill have a better understanding this year of what it takes to win those kind of games rather than whine about losing them! Having said that, the better team will win the game Saturday, not the lucky one. Stop the whining!

  • BYU fan at Utah/TCU game...
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:55 a.m.

    Dick, please try explaining this theory to my BYU fan neighbor who went to the Utah TCU game in white so he was not part of the blackout and with a TCU sweatshirt. If that is not a Y fan who hates the U then I don't know who is. All I know is you'll never catch me at LES cheering for whoever they're playing unless the Utes are in town.
    Maybe he's the exception to your theory but I have a feeling he's not.

  • Oregoncoug14
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:56 a.m.

    I HATE the Yewts!!!!!!! I hate them, I hate them, I hate them!!!!

  • California Ute
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:56 a.m.

    The Pres of Utah, half the coaching staff, half the players and half the fans are LDS. There is no Holy War. Religion has nothing to do with this. It's a football game. Leave your bigotry at the gate.

    And what is with these out of staters thinking that status makes them somehow superior? Living in a dorm with similar restrictions as a halfway house makes you better than someone who works through college and commutes? That's messed up.

    At Ann Arbor in Aug the Michigan fans were gracious and excellent hosts. There was some good natured cheering and jabs. But ultimately good sportsmanship. However, their hatred for OSU was palable. We saw the vulgar hats and shirts slamming the Buckeyes and they were playing Utah. Rivalries abound in college football. I love the rivalry with the Y but have no use for the vitriol from either side. It's a football game. Let's have fun.

  • bylol
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:57 a.m.

    does anyone relaly think utah will lose?

  • SF Ute Fam
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    Granted, during the 80's and early 90's Ute Nation jealously despised the uprising of the coug program, however this is not true today. Since the late 90's, the football programs have likely been, dare I say, equal! So, you can count out the jealously argument like jan jorgensen's defensive prowess.

    Secondly, a large majority of coug alumni are not from utah. they don't care (or so i hear) about a Utah in-state rivalry when they grow up in boston or southern cal and usually don't hear about the heated rivalry until they show up on campus. although coug fans try not to act like they care about the game, proof will be evident that it is otherwise so come saturday night after the utes come out victorious!

  • UteTy
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    Uh... Dick, if Utah is open to the media, why didn't you try to interview one of their players? Oh, right, it's becuase you are a homer. This Ute will continue looking up to you zoobs from the bottom, despising you for being so righteous and so talented.

  • something to note
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:09 a.m.

    Now I may have missed some and feel free to correct me if I have but here's some of the stuff I've seen in the news the past few years. Against Utah: Football player got caught stealing a snickers candybar and got busted big time for it. Against BYU: Players picked up minors and showed them porn then tried to sleep with them (I think this one is a little worse then stealing a candybar) Against Utah: Gay/Lesbian couples at the U. Against BYU: Couples going to Vegas to get married so they can justify having sex. (you determine which is worse) Against BYU: Student caught dealing meth out of dorms (allowed to stay if I remember right. I think daddy pulled some strings). Lets not forget that there was actually a movie made this last year about how big the drug problem in "Happy Valley" is. Looking at it objectively I don't think it's totally fair to slam the U as the school without morals or standards. Yes one bad apple does seem to spoil the bunch but doesn't it seem like that works both ways war kittens?

  • Michaelitos
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:10 a.m.

    Dick,
    Is this really the best you could do? I've never read a more biased story in the Des News. Both teams want to win. Postulating on who wants to win more is like guessing when the Second Coming will be, fruitless and inconsequential. The only thing you can do is simply get prepared the best you can.

    I only have two things to say to you: Take off the blue-colored glasses, and GO UTES!!!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    hARMON- YOU MUST BE A REPUBLICAN. I haven't heard this much stupid stuff since the election. You also must be a friend of BUTTARS. another person with stupid ideas. I know the deseret news will not print this so I don't know why I wrote it. Harmon- that was the dummest article you have ever written.

  • Rob
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    I am LDS and a Utah Crimson member. I took my family of 8 to the game in Provo a few years back. Heckled all the way to the stadium by Y fan's about how we are going to get crushed. We won, and was heckled all the way to the car by bitter Y fans and students. Y fans have no class as winners or losers. My kids (4 and 5 years old) asked why the Y fans were so rude. Get a clue Dick it goes both ways.

  • Silencedogood
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:15 a.m.

    As someone who has been around PAC 10, SEC and the old SWC conferences I can speak for experience that no other rivalry is filled with so much disdain for the opponent than that of the Utah-BYU football game. I have been to other rivalry games and no where have I been exposed to the enmity and filfthy language than at a Utah-BYU game. I think that Mr Harmon has hit it right on the head that the Utes take this game much more seriously than the Cougs do. I sort of reminds me of the way that the Texas A&M Aggies take their big game with Texas each year. It is important to UT but it is life or death to the Aggies. That is how I sense the feelings of Utes towards the Cougs every year. In years past it has seemed like the only game that the Utes really cared about winning was the BYU game. Go Cougs this Saturday.

    PS I have rooted for the Utes in every game up to this point and now I hope BYU knocks their socks off the BCS Bowl scheme.

  • Son of Bob
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:18 a.m.

    It's an inferiority complex that fuels the U players and fans. "Beat the goodie-two-shoes!"

  • Buster
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:21 a.m.

    "Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    I'll take all ya'll anonymous posts seriously when you have the guts to post your name. Til then, peace."

    wow, you showed eveyoe on this one.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:23 a.m.

    re: The real reason | 1:47 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    >>Why does Utah hate BYU? It is because of a double standard. If a Utah player spent time in jail,(as some have and probably will again--not a slam, just a fact), it is no big deal.No one expects any better from Utah! At BYU,a player who had these problems wouldn't make the student body, let alone the team.

  • SML-PDX
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    I want to see Utah's blood spilled all over SLC and their BSC hopes destroyed! The "Piutes" are overrated!

  • Cougar Fan In Wash
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    Jonny H is still open.....

    4th and 18....

    Just give us another great headline on Saturday. (that is all I ask for)

  • Boo freakin hoo
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:25 a.m.

    Sniff, sniff ... boo hoo hoo ... "I just don't know why those mean old Utes don't like us."

    If you want to know where the antipathy comes from, look no farther than comments like the one Dick throws in here. Listen, I question a "man's" integrity who can be so untruthful about something as small as this rivalry. (Speaking in the grand scheme of things.) A simple perusal of these comments will tell you BYU fans absolutely feel the same way Ute fans do.

    And what's wrong with it?

    Isn't that what a rivalry is? I have plenty of family members who cheer for the other side and we have a lot of fun with it. We know where the lines are, but we embrace the rivalry.

    Dick's comments make me want to vomit. I will never understand why some people prefer self-inflicted persecution, as if he and all the other Cougar fans just sit and take it, tears in eyes, whispering, "I just don't know why they hate us."

    Have a little integrity. Get some cajones and tell the truth. Y fans are as "fully invested" in this rivalry as the U fans.

  • Timely Article, Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    Dick, your article hits the nail on the head. Awhile back, I overhead a colleague say that the BYU-Utah rivalry is the best in the country. I personally think it may be the worst rivalry out there. The animosity and hatred expressed by too many fans on both sides is a sickening indictment and a serious problem that continues to get worse with time.
    Hatred is an ugly, terrible emotion that has no place in a civilized society. If you really care, try looking at the thousands of positive, meaningful things that happen every day on both campuses and you will discover that both are excellent institutions with people trying to learn and do worthwhile, beneficial work.
    Yet we allow the "hate" element to rear its ugly head and dominate the headlines and conversation whenever there is a sporting event between the two. The people on both sides who are willing to promote respect and appreciation need to stand up and become the dominant voice. To those hate mongers who won't let it go, I say don't go away mad, just go away. The world will be a better place without your ugly, miserable diatribe.

  • It's Simple
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:27 a.m.

    Utah fans are NOT fans of the Utes, they are BYU Haters!. BYU fans are fans of their team, not necessarily Ute Haters.

    In other words, the Utes would rather see BYU lose than see their own team win. The Cougs don't care that much about the Utes, just want their team to win.

    Maybe it's the lack of maturity that most Ute fans have.

  • Lew Sefurr
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:28 a.m.

    RE: Holy War ? | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    What about SMU v Baylor? Boston College v Georgetown? Wesleyan v Something something Nazarene?

    I find it funny that the Lord's University is jealous of their secular rival and dying for worldly recognition?

  • C. Rove
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:32 a.m.

    Lets not forget; Utah is a Red state. Arguably, the reddest in the nation.

  • Happy Valley
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:34 a.m.

    coogies - go back to your FHE lesson and shut up. UTAH WINS BIG!

  • Simple Solution
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:40 a.m.

    There's a simple solution to all this vitriol; BYU should drop all intercollegiate sports and concentrate on its mission and the mission of the Church.

    BYU-Idaho has done brilliantly since it did.

  • Ignorant
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    Ignorant article. One way street? Sure. Come live in Utah County and cheer for Utah. byU fans are incorrigible. And let's call a spade a spade, Bronco shuts down media access for two reasons: 1)He can't keep on of his puppets, Collie, from running his mouth, and 2) He's smug and arrogant. This act shows a continued string of his belief that he and his program are better than everyone. I'll tell you this, they're not better than everyone. TCU showed that and the Utes will, too. Enjoy 3rd and the Vegas Bowl. Cal will be waiting there to rock you.

  • re..Silencedogood
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:43 a.m.

    Thank you for helping to reject this article with your closing argument. BYU fans have taken the place of old Utah fans. The only thing they have to cheer for on Saturday is the possibility of smashing the dreams of the Utes. The "Quest" ended with a drumming at the hands of TCU, and now what is left is the reality of a trip to the Armed Forces Bowl vs. the Rice Owls.

    What Utah is playing for is a trip to play with the big boys, remember that "Quest" that wasn't really about football but was really about getting to a BCS game or the season is a failure. Well this season comes down to one game that will define success for these teams. For Utah, win your last game and get a date with the BCS and $4.5 million dollars, don't worry Cougs your school and the other bottom feeders of the MTN West will get some too thanks to your big brothers up north. For BYU, beat Utah and at least they didn't get what you are dying for, again.

    You have expressed the true feelings of reality for all Cougar fans in 2008, thank you!

  • Unbias observer
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    I think the players, coaches and admin people treat this game pretty much the same but from my experiences I think there is more hate from a larger portion of the Ute nation. Two years ago I attended the BSU game in Salt Lake as I did the BSU game in Provo a couple of seasons earlier. At the Utah game as we walked thru the tailgating lot we got a lot of comments positive to BSU but a majority or more than 50% also added some very derogatory comments towards BYU for no apparent reason. This occur before and after the game. At Provo we got less positive comments but I did not hear any fan once say something about the Utah Utes. This is a small sample but I conclude from these experiences that a portion of the premise of this article is accurate at least as far as the fans are implicated.

  • Darrell
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:50 a.m.

    Always good to have a well researched article that is full of facts and figures by that pillar of journalistic quality known as Richard Harmon. Since when do they let a newspaper reporter publish a story based solely on hunches and theories without a single fact or source behind it? Nice.

  • Byu fans are just as angry
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:56 a.m.

    If I remeber correclty a BYU fan attacked a Utah Cheerleader a few years ago. But BYU fans don't hate Utah, I bet he was just trying to see how is day was going.

  • Michael Hall
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:59 a.m.

    When I hear Y fans claim that Utes care more for this rivalry game than any other game in the season, I wonder why the attendance at the recent win over TCU exceeded that of any BYU game. And why Utah wins all their bowl games and BYU loses most of theirs. Seems to me like Utah moves on to focus on the bowls while BYU wallows in their losses to Utah or last second upsets and thinks the season is over.

  • Hello??
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    nearly all of these posts are unintelligent..dick is not saying the U fans are so different than Y fans, he is saying that the U football TEAM seems to get more fired up for the game than the the Y TEAM and that the Y TEAM is not coached to get as fired up for the game....the Y coaches try to treat it like it is just the next game in the season..... This is why every year even when the cougs seem like they will dominate they get worked over and then have to pull off the last second heroics to squeek out with a victory. That is the one reason I like the utes is because they seem to play beyond their own abilities in the big games and this year they've even played good against the weaker teams as well. But if coach lets collie fire up the boys they will take the game and send all those u fans home with nothing but a hang over....go cougars 35-31

  • Give me a break Harmon!
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:02 a.m.

    Utah's offense and defense are designed for the BYU matchup. Come on! Utah loves to beat the cougs, but there are 11 other games in a season. "oh, the rivalry is so one sided. Only Ute fans get emotional about it. BYU is too busy attending seminary classes to experience passion."
    Get Real!

  • Jordan
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:06 a.m.

    Congrats to the Runnin' Yoots for finally having a good season in the wake of the Urban experiment. I think Coach Whit has some of the same magic that Austin Collie has experienced at your expense. I guess it makes sense.... he's a former Cougar. It's nice to see the Yoots finally get up for a game. I feel honored that we can finally help you sell out your huge, massive 45,000 seat stadium.

    The Yoot-Cougar rivalry is like little brother vs. big brother. The little brother lives with a constant chip on his shoulder from an inferiority complex. He'll win the occasional fight by administering a cheap shot below the belt. The older brother, once he recovers from the initial blow, always puts his little brother back in his place, but the little brother's bitterness remains.

    It's OK little brother, you might hit us below the belt this weekend, but just remember your place in the pecking order.

  • FHE?
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:09 a.m.

    Wow! Great use of mockery of the FHE...what's next, mocking the entire Mormon church or just their culture...because of a Private University which is owned by them. I guess when Football takes priority over "Family Time" you have proved that Ute fans are more passionate about their team.

    Have your victories, Utah!

    BYU will stick to our "self-righteous" ways of promoting family and standing for those things which we belive to be right!

    (I know, right now you're thinking...I know a Mormon BYU fan who did...-or- You BYU fans think you're so much better than us)

    It's football; it shouldn't be religion bashing and it shouldn't be personal...it's a game.

    It's amazing to me that the ESA can be filled with Cougar and Ute fans cheering on the Jazz and can have something in common for a night!

    Thanks for the posts of Fans that are fans of a good game of football and not Fans of Hatred.

  • BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:09 a.m.

    im pretty scared for this game. i dont think BYU has the team to do it this year.

  • RE: BYU @ PSU
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    WRONG!! Success for Ute fans is BCS or bust and the only way to get there in the BCS monopoly is through the Y by going undefeated.

    I could care less about winning the MWC.

    If Utah had a loss then the Y game would be the biggest game of the season since you really can't get up for the Vegas Bowl when you've already been to the BCS.

  • B ackside
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    I went to the TCU vs. Utah game. I am as blue as the smurf turf in Idaho but I cheered for Utah to win that game. I celebrated with the Utes as they charged the field and celebrated thier victory. I felt all warm and fuzzy inside as the Utes hopes for a BCS game, national respect and an undefeated season were still alive. I was so happy because this is just as I pictured the season happening. Utah at home against BYU with so much on the line. So much pressure on thier shoulders. Oh how sweet it will be on Saturday as BYU takes away all of the hopes and dreams of the Utes and leaves them devestated on thier own field. No amount of King Louis will save you on Saturday. The Utes defense is going to get tired of seeing Austin Collies butt as he scores over and over. Utes get used to seeing the backside of BYU because after Saturday you'll be seeing our backsides in the polls. Go BYU!

  • Ben
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:12 a.m.

    I went to BYU in the late 1980's. Played in the marching band and had two trips to SLC for the Utah game. From my experience and perspective, the level of hatred Ute fans have towards BYU is very tangible. It easily exceeds the emotion shared by BYU fans towards Utah. I think the operative word here is "Hate." Based on rabid, foul mouthed, obcene, and inappropriate fans, Utah wins that contest hands down. Sure, BYU has some of those types too, but it's WAY less than those type of Utah fans.

  • Looking forward to a great game
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:12 a.m.

    This is classic!!! Always will be. Of course BYU knows its rival. BYU wants to win the rivalry on the field. But Utah takes this thing to a whole new level.

    Moving to Utah in 1996 I had no idea what Utah stood for. I was glad to see Utah do so well in 2004, because until then all I saw was that Utah stood for anything against BYU. I thought, hey maybe some success nationally will help them branch out of their sole struggle for the admiration of the state of Utah. I was wrong. It may be worse. Some Ute fans are more disgruntled than ever and even act like 2004 had everything to do with outshining BYU.

    BYU players don't think anything about their holiness in relation to Utah through the year or during rivalry week. I respect Kyle W. taking a better approach than Urban did. Urban played off misconceptions to rachet this up on a personal level. Lavell & Bronco are more like Kyle. Football is won on the field. No animosity needed. If as a BYU fan I appear to have angst, it is b/c I don't get the crazed perspective Utes have.

  • For the Utah Fans
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:16 a.m.

    Too many of you here suffer from an apparent lack of ability to comprehend what you read. I blame the state education system, but that's another matter entirely.

    Dick was very clear in his distinction between fans and the players. For example, Ute56, which BYU players showed up at the airport in Oregon with the "Harline's still open" sign?

    None. Dick's article was about players...he said outright that fans were another matter altogether. As far as the portrayal of the BYU players, he got it largely correct.

    Too bad for y'all though. It's clearly more interesting to hate, so just dismiss anyone who says anything remotely sensible, or factual, and go one with you sad little life where hating BYU is the highlight of your day.

  • JW Morrison
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:16 a.m.

    If the BYU team that showed up at TCU comes to SL then they will get creamed. If the best BYU team shows up, they still might not beat BYU. I hope that BYU wins but if they don't, then life goes on.

  • UteNation
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:17 a.m.

    Others have already said it, but I think it is worth repeating: this article typifies the arrogance that is BYU (players and fans alike). Statements to the effect that Utah obsesses over this game, while BYU treats it like any other smacks of pretentiousness and sanctimony.

    It is truly sad that BYU fans and players cannot have an honest discussion with themselves that their dislike of Utah is just as strong as that of Utah's dislike of BYU.

    See you on Saturday. I'll be the guy wearing red!

    GO UTES!!!!!

  • Stop the Madness!
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:23 a.m.

    There is far too much hatred right now. I agree with the FHE Post. If you've ever been to an out of state game, fans don't get this way. They LOVE their team not HATE the other (and definitely not the fans)!

    What a great day, once a year to see two great teams battle it out on a football field; why can't people let it stay there? Football has taken a back seat to this rivalry of fans.

    Maybe this year Ute fans can try to better tolerate the cougar fans and be kind end exchange words such as "Wow, that was a sweet play" and next year, the cougar fans can do the same.

    I know it could never happen cause both team's fan bases are to prideful; but overtime, it could restore this back to a GAME of football.

    We are blessed in this country to even be able to watch football at a stadium in a "free" setting. Have you ever thought of 9-11 and other days that could have easily altered the "freedom" of football on a Saturday afternoon. Enjoy it!

    STOP THE BICKERING AND ENJOY THE GAME AND YOUR FREEDOM!

  • Re: Ignorant
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:25 a.m.

    I think Collie has you scared, because he has backed up any and all comments on the field. You can call him names, you can call him arrogant, but you wouldn't bother if he weren't as good as he is.

    He beat you last year '4th and 18' and you can't get over it, and you know he'll do it again. Enjoy your last chance to see him in person, unless you plan on attending some NFL games.

    The Cougs by 2 TDS

  • WE sat
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:25 a.m.

    In the student section at the 94 game at the Y. We didn't wear our Utah gear and we only really cheered when the kick went through at the end. Listening to the crowd during the game made us laugh - they were like any other anywhere second guessing and homering and using LOTS of language the honor code doesn't allow. When we cheered Yergensen's kick we were attacked physically and both our wives were shoved on the ground more than once. WE were hit with more liquor related trash than ever gets into RES since everyone there gets searched. And we hadn't yelled, taunted, or even cheered during the game or been direspectful after the kick. And I see Y fans picking fights by making sure they are "out there" in the crowd's face every other year at RES. There are idiots on both sides but it seems that U fans apologize for their embarrassing few while the Y denies any. That's why the world laughs at BYU and the inflated opinions they have of themselves. Dick Harmon is all of this with a venue and I'm sure he only has a job because he IS a homer.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:34 a.m.

    Hey Yewts.......Harline, Collie and now probably Pitta this year are STILL open!!! HAHA!!!
    GO COUGS!!

  • Giving up already?
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:35 a.m.

    Read the last 10 comments and see how many Coug fans are already making excuses or dismissing a loss on Saturday. I'll give you some credit, at least you're calling your shot early! "You can have your win, but we are still the most righteous people on the field that day." Who are you trying to kid? This game would mean so much more if the Cougs hadn't of gotten kick all over the field at TCU. Instead all it means for BYU is a chance to upset the Utes.

    To Jordan: Pecking order in the past means nothing, just ask Michigan, Colorado, Notre Dame. The pecking order today is your Cougs are an UNDERDOG going into a game with your "little brother." Doesn't speak too highly for you does it according to your own logic?

    To Backside: Did you have to cover your eyes as you typed that? This is how you thought the season would play out? Hah!! Every since your glorious Vegas Bowl victory over and under 500 team, all you and your clansman have thought about is going undefeated and playing in the BCS. The only way your logic works is if you're a UTE!!!

  • Strange rivalry beyond football
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:40 a.m.

    I don't know what it is exactly. I suppose if Utah were given more national acclaim through the years, whether deserved or not, as BYU has been given, then the shoe would be on the other foot. BYU fans would jealously argue that their team deserves more acclaim than Utah. The rivalry would still exist, but that's where it should end--just as football.

    Here's the crazy part: if during the Lavell years, BYU was not doing as well, and not playing and winning big games nationally, whereas Utah under Ron McBride was always ranked, going to bowl games, and then winning against Utah became BYU's biggest possible feat, the Holy war concept would be undermined a little. Why?

    B/c BYU would not be able to attach Utah's winning ways to some idea that Utah must think they are holier and better than everyone. BYU could not do that because Utah is not associated w/ any one religion nor those merits. However, BYU is affiliated directly with the LDS Church. If BYU percieves itself as better in football alone, Ute fans naturally still attach a better (holier) than thou attitude to the BYU fans. That's just crazy! And sad!

  • Transplant
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:40 a.m.

    I am a transplant from Michigan. I have lived and worked here the past 20 years. My team? Yes, the Wolverines! We have our fair share of rivalry games also. I must say though, in the case of BYU-Utah, both sides have their idiots! And I mean, IDIOTS!! Let's bring these idiots back down to earth, before they hurt someone!! (How sad this is true!!)

    Fact: BYU is a hated target week in and week out. (Teams care more about their BYU game than their Utah game.)

    Fact: Utah's overall record in this rivalry is better

    Fact: BYU has won more conference championships (including WAC)

    Fact: BYU got slaughtered on the road to a great addition to the MWC

    Fact: Utah barely survived this team at home. Make one of two easy field goals and Utah would have same record as BYU.

    Fact: Utah barely survived an Oregon State team that hopefully wins the PAC-10 (I can't stand Pete Carroll) Again, would have same record as BYU

    Fact: Both teams are great programs with honor and tradition. Both deserve respect from the other side.

    Take politics and religion out of this rivalry please! Let's call it the "Civil War" instead.

  • Tarheel Ute
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:44 a.m.

    Harmon is probably correct - this year, as Ute fans including myself have had to live with our BYU friends and bloggers for the last two years. BYU fans in general have been smug... until losing to TCU and their BCS aspirations. Now for BYU fans as well, the Utah-BYU game and rivalry takes on added importance.

    The national disgrace as represented by the BCS will not allow a one-loss MWC team to participate. A BYU win translates into a Boise BCS invite. BYU and Utah football feeds off this rivalry year to year if for no other reason the BCS bowl system is such a sham.

    For my part, I would for more enjoy and respect a win on Saturday, against BYU, rather than a subsequent bowl win, regardless of were Utah ends up; if nothing more than out of respect for the rivalry and to overturn the results of the last two years. I for one am not overly proud to admit this.

    Regardless, if BYU or certainly Utah is invited to a BCS, I root for either, as the acknowledged and deserving representative of the MWC. Both will have certainly earned it on the field this Saturday.

  • reason
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:44 a.m.

    I hesitate to write anything thoughtful in a forum like this, but here goes.

    I am a life-long Ute and and active LDS member. I love my school and love my church. I think both sides (but mostly BYU fans) are to blame for the religious-related animosity in this rivalry. Nothing is more off-putting than self-righteousness. Here is an example:

    Shortly after my mission I went to a Utah-BYU basketball game at the Marriott Center to cheer for the Utes. While I cheered enthusiastically for my team, a kid of about 14 turned around and said to me, "You're just jealous because we're more righteous than you." I kid you not. This kid knew nothing about me, but had the gall to make that stupid statement.

    Another off-putting attitude among BYU fans is the idea that no good Mormon would choose the U over the Y unless they couldn't get in. Well I had no problem getting into both, but I chose the U. I went on to grad school in the Ivy league. Yet some BYU fans still make those ignorant comments to me.

    Dick H., look in the mirror to learn the reason for the animosity.

  • Hero of Canton
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:48 a.m.

    Categorically the worst article in this newspapers history, Dick Harmon needs to stop pretending and go back to the Daily Garbage where his writting style can be fully appreciated.

    BYU fans are by FAR worse than Utah fans, there is not a Sunday that goes by that I don't have to hear someone espousing how great 'The Lord's University' is and how the players are role models that should be put on pedastels as examples of who the Lord helps in times of need. Give me a freaking break lil' cougie fan, your bringing of religion into this is ridiculous and makes you all the more of a joke to the rest of the known world.

  • Cats
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:51 a.m.

    In answer to Dick Harmon's question about why Ute fans get more emotional, I think I can give some insight.

    I attended both schools. I actually attended Utah longer than I attended BYU. I know just what goes on in both places. I can state, unequivocally, from personal experience that at BYU, the attitude toward Utah is a really strong rivally. At Utah, the attitude toward BYU is hatred and religious bigotry. I know this from personal experience.

  • Mr. BYU
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:52 a.m.

    Say what you want boys and girls but there is a lot of truth to what Mr. Harmon says! About half of the Utah fans are LDS and don't make a big deal about the religion aspect, but most of the other half does make religion an issue.

    There are Ute fans that accuse BYU fans of a "holier than thou" attitude just because they have certain standards that they are trying to follow in their lives.

    Then there are BYU fans that want to generalize and say that all the Ute fans are have few standards when we know that can be false.

    As for the rivalry, I remember when year after year it was a fanny kicking given to Utah by BYU almost every year and I really enjoyed it. Hats off to Ron McBride who got Utah competetive...and then he was shown the door! Nice treatment! Utah has made it competitive ever since.

    Go Cougs!

  • Civil War
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:53 a.m.

    I agree with "transplant." There are too many idiots on both sides of the ball, as it were. Let's call this rivalry the "Civil War." I know there is already a "civil war" in the SEC, but I think the name really fits this BYU-Utah Rivalry. Think of it, Brother vs. Brother (litterally), North vs. South, etc.

    Maybe a name change in this rivalry game would take the politics and religious aspect out of what is really supposed to be a form of entertainment. Yes, have passion for your team! Yes, support them no matter what...Die Hard!! But please, be respectful of the others accomplishments! Be proud even of what the other side has, and will continue to accomplish! But the signs and insults of pure hatred are definitely uncalled for! Both sides need to relax, take a deep breath and chill a little. The outcome really isn't the end of the world. Both sides care about their families. Both sides value education. Both sides deplore terrorists. Let's not turn into what we deplore! Have fun at the games! But watch your mouth, there are children present! That means you Mr. BYU and Mr. Utah Fan.

    Go Utes!

  • Classless Cougars
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:54 a.m.

    Offering up a church house parking lot to Utah fans for their tailgating party.

    Will the Y's lack of class never end.

    And the whole cheerleader story... Did we forget it was a male cheerleader? Can we understand that maybe he was part of the problem, or was he an inocent little lamb?

  • Quotes
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:58 a.m.

    I love how this game means more to Utes than Cougars, yet Coug fans are the only group who comes up with catch phrases from the past to trash talk about. Yes, Harline and Collie were open, but get over it. I guess Ute fans should throw these out there:

    "Yergensun just kicked a 55 yd FG in your stadium to shut you up!"
    "Remember that shutout, when BYU played anyone who volunteered at QB but couldn't muster a point at home!"
    "How about the time our DT, Steve Fifita, ran right down your throats for a TD to cap an embarrasing blowout at RES!"
    "What about the time our back up QB playing his first game every put up 41 points in LES and beat the great John Beck!"
    "Remember the Fiesta Bowl, and all those Coug fans who traveled to experience something they will never have!"
    And on Saturday, "Remember the time Utah beat the Cougs to finish undefeated and get to the BCS, AGAIN!"

    You Cougar fans are right, this really does feel good to reminise!

  • Texas Ute
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:01 a.m.

    I felt this article was very one sided! Where are the quotes from Ute players and coaches regarding the rivalry.
    My wife and her family are die hard BYU fans. I myself support Utah. Since being married, 7 years, I have always watched these games being the only Ute. I have never been treated so badly by family/friends than I have during and directly after the game. This rivalry is a huge deal for these BYU fans. For 4-5 hours a year I am not an in-law, I am the enemy. Even my wife treats me differently during the games.
    I do agree that Ute fans are, unfortunately, more harsh when hazing BYU fans. I look forward every year to the game, but not to the abuse I take from family and friends during the game. GO Utes!!

  • Not Just Utah!
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:03 a.m.

    BYU fans from Utah hate Utah just like Utah fans hate BYU, but 67% of BYU students are not from Utah and weren't raised in the heated rivalry; therefore, they do not share the intensity that "Utah Natives" people have for this rivalry. This is why BYU fans in general don't hate Utah as bad as Utah hates BYU. BYU is actually hated more by everyone in the conference for a variety of reasons(22 conference championships since 1974, religion, arrogance, traveling fans, ect...) I went to the UCLA/BYU game last year at the Rose Bowl and trust me it was very intense because 1/3 of the crowd was BYU and the mormon insults never stopped.

  • Angry Ute fans
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:07 a.m.

    Don't blame Harmon.

    He pointed out something we already all knew.

    It's up to you guys to change your culture of hate.

    It could start with, when one of you Ute brothers moves over the line of fun rivalry, to classless profanity, ask him to mellow a bit.

    Maybe ask him to drink responsibly.

    Instead of bashing Harmon for telling the truth, change the truth.

  • How Does Harmon Know?
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    Harmon says that the Ute players are much more invested in hating BYU, than the BYU players are in hating Utah?

    As a credentialed reporter, Harmon certainly has access to all locker rooms in the conference. But I don't think anybody would be surprised to learn that he spends the majority of his time in BYU's locker room.

    Given that, how accurately is he able to measure the level of hatred for BYU among Utah's players?

  • Who let the bigots out?
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    Rivalry week is a good chance for any person or group to show their animosity toward Mormons. Unfortunately, some people feel that the Holy War can be used as a medium to spew hatred and bigotry. Because the U of U is not officially associated with the Mormon church, those antagonistic to the church tend to cheer for the Utes. This is unfortunate, because there are many faithful Mormons associated with the U but they get a bad rap because of those that join with them to belittle BYU and what it stands for. I think it will be a good game - but let's keep the Mormon bashing to a minimum please.

  • Frank Castle
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:13 a.m.

    re: FHE? | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    >>Wow! Great use of mockery of the FHE...what's next, mocking the entire Mormon church or just their culture...because of a Private University which is owned by them. I guess when Football takes priority over "Family Time" you have proved that Ute fans are more passionate about their team.

  • Nostracougus
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:15 a.m.

    Reading all the slurred posts from Ute fans on an article that has a lot of truth in it is exactly why BYU fans will take so much pleasure in not only denying Utah's BCS bid, but dropping the Utes into the third-tier Poinsettia Bowl.

    It's gonna happen, Ute fans. You might as well start booking your San Diego holiday vacation.

  • An objective Utah fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:15 a.m.

    As an objective Utah fan I can say, objectively, that BYU fans are the most self rightous fans on the face of the planet. Also Utah fans are always loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, and kind. I think that should put an end to this discussion.

  • Special Guest
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:16 a.m.

    If religion is going to be brought up in this "football discussion"...

    Christian football goers everywhere believe in a little saying "WWJD"

    As Christians wait for a second coming and nobody knows when it is...

    I hope it would be on a Saturday afternoon in late November when the cougars and utes are playing.

    How embarrassing for everyone involved in this "brotherly love".

    It can't be called a "holy war" if there is nothing holy about it!

  • SPELL CHECK...???
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:18 a.m.

    What is the BSC? The Beer Spilling Championship? I will take this article seriously when Dick Harmon learns the difference between the "BCS" and the "BSC"...

  • Concluded
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:18 a.m.

    After I read this article I didn't agree with Harmon, I thought the hatred was more or less equal.

    After reading all the comments... Its sad but true, Utah does have a complex going on.

  • I hate Utah because..
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:20 a.m.

    they drink beer and smell bad when drunk. Here's hoping the alcohol carries you through the BCS hangover. Sober school 28. Drunk school 3 only because of an amazing kicker.

  • Last year...
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:22 a.m.

    Maybe Dick should dress in Red from head to toe next year and sit where I did last year in the student section at the Y. After the 4th and 18 play, I was mobbed by students who felt it was "loving" and "classy" to yell in scream in my ear as they pushed me off the bleacher.

    I can still hear the love ringing in my ears.

  • D. Mallard
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:23 a.m.

    After watching the respective Press conferences, last night, it never ceases to amaze me how Mendenhall can be so pollyanna & arrogant all-in-one; Was he tutored by Roger Reid & his 2 brats?

    K-Whit looked incredibly incomfortable and was pragmatic as well as complimentary towards the darkside for whom he used to play.

    With the exception of a few knuckleheads, The secular-progressives on the hill seem to have better perspective towards the whole shootin' match

    I'd bet even if Utah loses they get a 2nd tier bowl; The Alamo, Insight, or Poinsetta against Okla St or Mizzou. Whereas, the Y heads down to the DFW to revisit the scene of the crime to see Donny & Marie.

  • Looking at it Logically
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:24 a.m.

    Myopic Ute fans may not accept this, but a BYU victory Saturday will be the best thing for the Mountain West Conference in the long run.

    Yes, the short-sighted will clamor that that will leave the MWC without a BCS team this season (although not a definite at this point). I say look to the long term.

    If Oregon State wins out and the PAC-10 takes two BCS berths (one by a team that was not only blown out by Penn State but also with a direct loss to Utah), and the MWC gets shut out the league will have all the evidence it needs that the system is unfair. (Something we already know.)

    The MWC is being talked about nationally as the third or fourth best league in the country. We have three teams ranked in the top 17 -- yet the PAC-10, clearly inferior to the MWC -- will get two bids?

    That fact will gain a lot of national attention and will do more to change the selection process (maybe by creating a play-in game with the WAC, than anything the Utes could accomplish by getting in this year.

    Lose one for the league, Utes!

  • Nathaniel
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:24 a.m.

    Dick Harmon must not read the comments on his own articles. He must not listen to sports radio either. Maybe in 1985 the cougars, fans, and players didn't care much about the rivalry, but they care a lot now.

    Sometimes the best evidence is the lack of evidence. All Harmon can muster to support his point are some quotes by Jan Jorgensen and Bronco Mendenhall playing down the rivalry. Really Harmon? You couldn't find just one more player to give you a quote about the rivalry?

    Likewise he makes no attempt to get the Ute side of the story. I'm certain if I interviewed some Utah players, I could find a couple to play down the rivalry.

  • Dick "Kindling" Harmon guilty 2
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    "Rivalry coverage will likely dwarf news on the economy, our new president-elect and the war on terror."

    Overstated. Over exaggerated. It's people like Harmon who "fuel the fire," for better or for worse...

  • Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:26 a.m.

    I'm glad that the U players and fans are passionate about this game and that the U coaches prepare for BYU. It will help the team play better and win the game. Since neither the players or coaches at BYU care as much about the game, you and they have a built in excuse when the Y loses.

    From a lifelong Utah man and a holder of degrees from both schools, Go Utes!.

  • Wanna $100
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:26 a.m.

    I'll give $100 to the first person who reads this comment. If you have read this comment, you're probably a Ute fan with nothing else to do but read 100+ lame comments on Dick Harmon's annual rivalry article. Get a life... and a job.

  • Whoa Nellie
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:27 a.m.

    Transplant got it right.

    Here are a few more facts:

    The majority of fans of both teams have class.

    The majority of posters on any newspaper article are a very small minority of the fan base and are classless, including me. We are all biased and proud of it.

    There will always be people who are dignified in their conduct at games and at all other times. There will always be people who act like idiots all year long but more so during the season of whatever sport is being played.

    There will always be people who act dignified most of the year but this week they're all fans.

    Now let's be civil in all our communications and may the best team win, as long as that team wears blue.

  • Hate overrated
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:29 a.m.

    This Hate thing is whats overrated. Seems a little to much political correctness or simply politics has made us fans far too sensitive.

    Utah fans don't really and truly hate BYU, their fans or the religion it was founded anymore than BYU fans hate Utah, considering the striking similarities.

    If some fans from both sides have a hard time with a few unruly, drunken or even outright belligerent bloggers or fans at game time - so be it or get over it. I have seen bad representation by both. But by in large they represent the exception not the rule.

    But even at its worst, football fan hatred is simply a more virulent shortterm display of football clan-like behavior; that once the game is over, for most becomes a talking point or a statistic.

    Now can we just all get along.

  • Y, bother.?
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:31 a.m.

    It really is so hypocritical for someone who has covered the rivalry for so long to write and or take your approach in this article. BYwho fans have all the guile,loathing, and spiteful feelings towards the U as ute fans do for them. It truly is what dresses this rivalry to be whatever you want it to be, whether you see it as hate-filled, intense, heated, or at times simply funny and enjoyable.

    Y fans start posting on Ute articles from week 0, its hateful, annoying, and makes me smile in disgust but i have grown to except it as part of our tradition of college football in the state of utah.

    People who ridicule those of us for venting our dislike and 'hate' for the other team, stay off the boards and don't listen to sports radio. I can hate who ever i want and i HATE BYU. Its fun to get worked up over a game and or a rivalry, nobody is getting killed over it. And if your skin is that thin, verbal abuse in this arena will probably get you cut!

    Utah 34
    BYU 24

  • Jahahahahahahah
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:31 a.m.

    I love to read how the Newties cry... go buy the Trib if you don't like DN!

  • Ridiculous
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:32 a.m.

    Funny that BYU fans don't want to get ripped on for their religion, but love to rip on Utah fans who like to have a drink! The biggest difference between a Utah fan and a BYU fan is appearance and reality. Ute fans don't have to hide who they are, if they want to grab a beer before the game great. BYU fans on the other hand have to sneak that sip of Caffeinated Coke or Coffee in the morning. What a way to live, always in hiding. BYU fans always complain about their beliefs being brought to the table on every issue, those should be private I agree, but with the other and want to dictate how the rest of the world lives. Prop 8 ring any bells! "Let us believe what we believe, and here is a list of things you are allowed to believe and live with." Mormanism 101

  • To Be Very Affraid
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:41 a.m.

    The last time the Utes played a game with such implications was in 2004, and Utah put up 50 points against BYU.

  • I want $100
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:41 a.m.

    I'll take that $100. I'm a BYU fan, but I could use the $100.

  • HARMON
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:42 a.m.

    The Utes will prevail since they are living right on and off the field (see TCU)...I can't believe I share the same last name as that BYU homer.

  • Buster
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    to:"Frank Castle | 11:13 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    re: FHE? | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    4 words; Fireside, TCU game, results."

    The fireside is a great teambuilding activity, and makes football more than one dimensional. It also gives fans the opportunity to see the team as a group of people, not just helmets with numbers.

    TCU game. Up to this point in Utah history, I think many Ute fans see this as one of the biggest games their team ever played. What they forget to realize is that this game was played in Fort Worth Texas, while the Utah players were all quietly tucked into bed, in their homes. What kind of smack is it to talk about another teams accomplishments?

    Good luck to Utah, they have a good team. BYU does too. They have their share of common opponents that Utah did NOT fare as well against.

    This game will be a coin flip. I see the real difference maker as how Austin Collie reacts to all of that unnessary whining (Including Dougie Robinson) last year. If he has a career game, it could mean the difference in the outcome in BYU's favor.

  • Objective Reporting?
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:46 a.m.

    Ever since Harmon reported the breaking news on 1280 the zone at the end of 2004 that, Kyle Whittingham was taking the head coaching job at byU, I try to pass over his articles. Biggest biased byU homer they let post articles in the Deseret News. Dick, thanks again for reinforcing my decision to usually skip your articles. . . . .unless I want a laugh.

  • $100
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:47 a.m.

    Ute fan here. I'll take that $100. I'm looking to buy some shirts that represent the type of year my Utes are having. Something that says we've played every team on our schedule, have beaten them all, and will now be playing one of the big boys in the BCS. I was thinking about something like "Quest For Another Perfect Season and BCS appearance," but that might be too long, maybe just "Quest For Perfection!" Any ideas where I could find such an item?

  • Diehard BYU fan w/o hate 4 utes
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:49 a.m.

    This game has been in the making for some time. In recent years Utah has had a good team, but with injuries and what not, it hasn't quite put it together. The Utes play with a lot of heart and they are winners. They are to be reckoned with, even favored this year.

    But BYU has been a pretty good team over the last few years, too. Utah needs this particular win, because BYU should be even better next year, while Utah loses most of their strengths. It should be a great game this year with the team Utah brings. But Utah manages to make it a great game most years, regardless. If either team lets me down, I will be disappointed. The rivalry game has spoiled me. Can't wait for another great one.

    These are two great teams who get crazed fan bases as a result, along with all their trash talking. Lucky them. Lucky us. But when it is all said and done, I just want to see the team I am a fan of win the football game. A Championship is on the line. Hate has nothing to do w/ it for me. Go Cougs!

  • Hate or no hate
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:51 a.m.

    Whether there's an equal rivalry all depends on your definition of hate. I hate the U as an athletic institution in the sense that I always root against them. On the other hand, that's the extent of my hatred. Many ute fans, on the other hand, get personal (maybe it's the beer) enough to shout racist or bigoted phrases towards fans or players. They also "hate" enough to get physical (maybe it's their way of reminding themselves how tough they are) by punching or shoving other fans. Wrost of all throwing beer and urinating on other fans.

    Think about this: if I parked my blue byu-stickered car at Rice-Eccles, I'd probably find a window smashed out after the game. Ok, not probably--that actually happened to a friend. Isn't that a different level of hate?

    Face it, Utes--too many of you have serious anger issues, and can't the game from what it is: a game.

  • BYU fan that roots for Utes
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:53 a.m.

    As a fanatical BYU fan I can honestly say that I root for Utah in every other game except when they play BYU. On the other hand I do know of Utah fans who wish ill to BYU every game of the year.

    Short Story-
    Utah ladies (fans) coming to BYU home games just to mock, curse at and give inappropriate gestures to BYU fans. Mind you, BYU was not playing Utah. When woman my grandma's age go to home BYU games just to do this you know they are drinking the haterade just for hate sakes.

  • CrimsonUte
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:56 a.m.

    Players from both teams get into it - you can tell by the bone-headed penalties both sides commit every rivalry game.

  • Fans...
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:57 a.m.

    The reason ute fans hate BYU fans is because of the fans themselves... I don't know if there is a less educated (football) group of fans in the nation. I know BYU fans who still believe that the officials gave TCU the game. They go by the mantra, "ref the game honestly but do no harm to BYU!"

    GO UTES!!!

    BCS!!! THIS IS OUR DESTINY NOT YOURS!!!

  • Re: $100
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:58 a.m.

    I've already staked my claim to that $100! By the way, I'm die-hardest of BYU fans, but that was funny. That is what the rivalry and all its talk should be about.

  • Re: Re: Ignorant
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:59 a.m.

    Collie's backed up everything? Short memory you have. Sound familiar..."We're gonna put a, put a hurt on 'em." If a 52-21 drubbing is putting a hurt on a team, please come hurt us again. The kid's braindead.

  • Pukes
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:01 p.m.

    Your team is going to lose last second again this year, and I will laugh in all your stupid Puke faces.

    Go Cougars

  • RE - Texas BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:02 p.m.

    It must be nice living in the past but what have you done recently? As for Dick Harmon, are you really that blind? There must be poor visability in "the bubble".

  • Outsiders
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:03 p.m.

    The BYU student body is predominantly non Utah Mormons. The Utah student body is predominantly Utah Mormons, regular non Mormons and a few anti Mormons. However, most of the Utes are from Utah where more of the BYUers are from outside of Utah.

    This game only has a holy war aspect for the anti Mormons and those who react to them.

  • The difference is Utah residents
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:07 p.m.

    No one can speak with any definiteness about which side cares more (and only can speak from their own set of experiences), but from my own personal observation, growing up in Utah must have something to do with it. My husband is from Utah and he and his siblings attended the U. They constantly feel the need to make fun of me for attending BYU. My family is from outside of Utah and my siblings and I attended BYU. My family never cracks on Utah. We couldn't care less. I am so grateful I am not from Utah and didn't get caught up in all of this stupidity.

  • This just in..
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:08 p.m.

    Local grocery stores in Utah County have announced a shortage of Jello due to the high demand for this weekends game. Smiths has requested that people discontinue their search for Jello until further notice. Until you've heard otherwise, continue your consumption of Hogi Yogi. Don't forget to pop your collar and wear your braided belts.

  • Stupid article
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:09 p.m.

    What a stupid article. Dealing with a chapter in Utah football from when I was less than 5. Yeah, that's why we don't like BYU. Hey Dick, maybe BYU doesn't like the U for all of those years that we wasted them back from 1900-1960. What a stupid comment, can't we just print the Austin Collie quote of the week instead of this thing?

  • Where's the logic?
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:12 p.m.

    @ looking at it logically

    That could be the most rediculous line of logic I've ever heard. Typical of a BYU fan.

  • LDS Ute Fans and BYU fans...
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:12 p.m.

    The reason some Ute fans have more "hatred" in their hearts...perhaps is because many of the non-LDS Ute fans are not religious or God fearing- which means their spirit is dulled and contention thrives. BYU fans and LDS-Ute fans want to win just as badly, but understand that there is more to life, and are more grounded in more important things...therefore they generally don't act out of line like their Ute-fan counterparts.

  • Easy everybody
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    I seem to remember a few weeks back reading comment boards and listening to radio shows. That when BYU was undefeated so many of there fans were actually believing that if they go undefeated they deserve a chance at the NC. When TCU exposed them they said TCU will kill Utah. That didn't happen either. Now it's anyone in the top 10 will kill Utah. So which is it. I am getting confused. Oh well I guess your bowl game will be at RES this saturday. At least you won't gamble this saturday.....

  • Bombadil
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:21 p.m.

    I think the interesting thing about the article is that it is obvious that when BYU comes north, the fans, atmosphere and stadium are in their heads. Jorgenson admitted it. Mendenhall closing practice to media proves it. He knows this team is made up of head cases. As an LDS Utah fan, being stereotyped as a drunk disgusts me. It is also obvious that BYU isn't as good as Utah this year. But, it's a rivalry game, and anything can and will happen. My prediction is the porous BYU secondary will not stop Utah enough, and the U's defense will make enough plays to hold the Y off. The reality is that most BYU fans this year have had to switch to rationalization and party spoiling because their expectations were destroyed. Thus, lots of "either way we win, either conference co-champ and we beat the U or a million dollars." Actually if you lose, you lose. Deal with it. We've had to for the last two years.

  • Ridiculous Part Deux
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:25 p.m.

    Yo, Ridiculous ...

    Show me a Ute fan who can stop at one drink and I'll show you a Ute hoops victory over Southwest Baptist.

    Ooops.

    There are idiots in the stands at all games. It is just more noticeable at Utah because the stadium is much smaller and there are always a lot of empty seats.

    Besides, you can't justify the drunken, profane chants that emanate at Rice-Eccles. It is disgraceful.

    I mean, the fans at Rice-Eccles must be drunk -- how else to explain all those fools that storm the field after even the most mundane victory. (We just beat Weber State -- storm the field!)

  • Chuck
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:27 p.m.

    To:"$100 | 11:47 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    Ute fan here. I'll take that $100. I'm looking to buy some shirts that represent the type of year my Utes are having. Something that says we've played every team on our schedule, have beaten them all, and will now be playing one of the big boys in the BCS. I was thinking about something like "Quest For Another Perfect Season and BCS appearance," but that might be too long, maybe just "Quest For Perfection!" Any ideas where I could find such an item?"

    Try a store with a fiction section. Unless you want to wait until Saturday, and not just wishfull thinking. Then you can print how you lost your last two games of the season also.

  • Just a BYU student
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:28 p.m.

    I got interviewed by KSL radio yesterday walking around campus. I thought the guy was going to ask me something intellectual about the game. As it turns out, all that he wanted was smack talk. He wanted to hear a few classless BYU fans make idiots out of themselves and stir the pot. I said "I don't think the U needs anymore reasons to beat BYU this year." My friends made similar comments. "This is the worse smack talk I've ever heard," he said. All that I could tell him was that I hate the U. I respect the U, but I hate it.

    I've grown up in Utah, and I've always hated them.

    The two first things I learned about football, BYU has a great team, and BYU fans hate Utah fans.

    Don't say BYU fans don't care about it more. I care about this rivalry win just as much as my crazy Ute counterparts.

    Let's be honest, there's only one game this year fans have REALLY cared about. Think about it, after every win it was "see you on November 22."

    This is big for Utah AND BYU.

  • Easy Everybody?
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:32 p.m.

    Every single Cougar fan I know was rooting for Utah to beat TCU. I don't even live in the U.S., so I can't speak about the local talk radio, but everyone on the boards was praying mighty hard for Brian Johnson's two minute drill. People rooting for a TCU mauling of Utah would clearly have been clueless as almost all Cougar fans knew that TCU had to lose to allow us a share of the MWC title. That may be the difference; Cougar fans tend to be more rational and root for their MWC league mates when it's appropriate whereas all of my Ute cousins only want to see Cougar blood spilt, even to the detriment of their own team's strength of schedule.

  • re:Easy everybody | 12:15 p.m.
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:33 p.m.

    "That when BYU was undefeated so many of there fans were actually believing that if they go undefeated they deserve a chance at the NC."

    I think it was interesting how Kyle claimed on ESPN that the Utes deserved a shot at the NC too. BYU fans are "self righteous", Utah fans are arrogant.

  • Mark in Peoria
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:34 p.m.

    "Dick Harmon" is not synonymous with "true journalism." Pretty much every one knows that. This is simply a fun article from a blatent BYU fan to fuel the fire. and it's worked. It's like the guys on NBC who were secretly hoping Obama would win the race....

    If Harmon were a true journalist instead of an op-ed writer, we would have seen several quotes from Ute players and coaches during the season regarding their hatred towards BYU...but there is no evidence! No quotes from the Utes! The more likely thing here (and I have no evidence either, which gives me similar credentials to Mr. Harmon)...is that the Ute players and coaches NEVER mentioned BYU until this week.

    Let's face it, Harmon lives in a fantasy land (Orem area I think).

    BTW, what are the chances BYU fans are stereotyping Ute fans? Pretty classic.

    No prediction for this game, cuz' them cougars have tore out our hearts the last two years---and anything can happen on rivalry weeK!

    Go Utes!

  • AzByuFan
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    There is no doubt more animosity coming from the Ute side. In other rivalries are based more on Geography. In the Holy War emotions are expressed outside of football. It divides among religious lines and amongst the LDS community. The most hostile Utes are the ant-LDS and LDS who were not accepted into BYU. And yes, from the early 70s to the mid 80s it was lopsided. The few wins by the Utes during that period were upsets.
    I have been to all stadiums in the MWC sans TCU and other stadiums. The Utah game has the most animosity with Wyo coming in 2nd.
    The animosity is stronger on the Ute side, the comments here speak for themselves.

  • C Note
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:37 p.m.

    All the BYU fans can split the 100 dollars down in LV & still come back w/ $98 & change.

    Bottled water on the strip isn't free.

  • Good logic
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:38 p.m.

    I think the earlier post about the university demographics hit the nail on the head. Only 31% of BYU students are from Utah, and I'm assuming (couldn't find info on it) that more Utah students are from Utah than that. BYU students don't understand the rivalry and its history as well as more Utah students, who have grown up with it more. That tells me that Utah fans and students are more appreciative of what this game means than BYU fans and students. That's why it means so much more to them. I grew up in Utah and Idaho, and went to BYU and am getting a J.D. at BYU, so I know what this game means, so it means a lot to me, and I am just as passionate about the rivalry as Ute fans are. But I seem to be part of the minority at BYU in that respect. I'm just saying that more Ute fans have a deeper connection to the rivalry than BYU fans. Anyone disagree?

  • P.S. to Good Logic
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:41 p.m.

    I found the info on how many Utah students are from Utah (residents v. non-residents): 24,558 are residents, compared to 4,061 non-residents. So yeah, most Utah students are Utahns, while just under a third of BYU students are Utahns. Hmmmm. So which school do you think has more "Utah Mormons." (Yes, I did. Let 'er rip, everybody!)

  • Kevin Nash
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:41 p.m.

    re: Outsiders | 12:03 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    I agree w/ the fact the most Y students are LDS & from out state primarily Cali & some from ID.

    Think about this; Where would most of us be w/o a Utah Mormon somewhere in the family tree or elsewhere?

  • RE: LDS Ute Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:42 p.m.

    I'm an LDS Ute fan, and I have heard some of the worst swears, and most vile, hateful comments from BYU fans who'll be in church right the next day. This attitude that LDS is just better is the reason I stopped being a BYU fan in the early 90's. When it comes to football, fans, attitudes behavior all go out the window.

    Yes perhaps, we dont' drink etc..., so what is our excuse for acting so horrible? Get off the high horse and realize that it's just a football team, not a banner for the LDS religion.

  • To Ute Fans
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    I went to both schools. The Ute fans tend to get more fiesty over the rivalry, just look at the derogatory comments and which fans they represent. Relax Utes. If you have high blood pressure I suggest taking up another interest. There a quite a few Utes who are not necessarily cheering for Utah rather against BYU.

  • 78Coug
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:55 p.m.

    I agree with "Cats". I'm a BYU grad and about 25 yrs ago attended a U of U Institute activity with a friend. They didn't know I was a BYU student and I couldn't believe the absolute derogatory comments that were continually being made about BYU. Some were so negative, I wondered if we were of the same religion!

    It's one thing if you cheer for your school, but another if you hate another school because of what they try to stand for.

    The bottom line is there is actual hatred from some of the Utah fans as a result of the religion factor! As a result of that hatred demonstrated by many Ute fans, some BYU fans being human don't want to put up with it so fight back. And unfortunately a small few instigate problems.

    TO: "WE SAT": I'm sorry you experienced what you did in LES. If I would have been there, I would have proceeded to protect you and your wives-that was uncalled for!!

  • I feel sorry for you
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:56 p.m.

    After reading this article and some comments I honestly feel sorry for a lot of the BYU fans. It seems that you live a life of contradictions, and live in fear your whole life. I am LDS, but I don't understand the mentality that everyone is out to get you because of your religion. Y fans like to say that the game is a chance for Mormon haters to come out and chear agains the LDS university and act like there are millions of people cheering for Utah (contrary to the normal 20-30 people that are usually claimed by Y fans). I guess it is just the culture that exists in Provo. I hate your fans for a lot of different reasons, none of them involve where you go on Sunday.
    For the article. It is embarassing to think that the Des News will print something like this. I realize that it was probably done to promote traffic to the site and contraversy. I understand that. In fact, there are a lot of papers that do it. The problem is that when a paper allows complete opinion and speculation, it is called a tabloid. It is sad really.

  • Church Going UTE Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:57 p.m.

    Dick,
    Get real, You have got to have blinders on to say that "Ute fans get up more for the rivalry game than the BYU fans". I was reviewing our Stakes monthly calendar on Sunday, and guess what the entry read for Saturday November 22nd? (Yes, this is the Stake calendar for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints - the entry is entered by Church leaders). It read, "November 22nd UTAH vs BYU GO COUGS". Yes Doug, the Church calendar said "GO COUGS". And your trying to tell me that BYU fans don't get up for these games. I hate to go to Church in November because sometimes thats all I hear "GO COUGS this and GO COUGS that". You are wrong, the COUG fans "Get up" for this game.

  • ???
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:57 p.m.

    Journalism is all about balance and objectivity.

    Arguments: 1, Utah cares more about the rivalry than BYU

    Cougars quoted: 2, Jan Jorgensen and Bronco Mendenhall

    Utes quoted: 0

    Wow, what a thoughtful, illuminating article!

    Go Utes!!!

  • righteous coug
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:57 p.m.

    As a BYU fan, I have always suspected I was a much better person than any Ute, and thanks to Mr. Harmon for confirming that suspicion.
    While being much classier and better behaved than the Utes, I still have no idea why they hate me. I guess I'll have to manage it instead of use it as fuel. Like Sister Janet Jorgenson said, "you will have to ask the Utes why they hate me." In the meantime, I guess I will have to settle for being perfect.
    Much love,
    typical coug

  • Holy War
    Nov. 18, 2008 12:59 p.m.

    The Holy War is absolutely a spot-on name for it and I hope no one ever changes it.

  • BYU
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:00 p.m.

    Don't mind BYU, just can't stand the fraction of them that are classic zoobies. As long as I don't meet them, it's a pretty civil deal.

  • Both sides hate each other
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:02 p.m.

    I am a BYU graduate that grew up in California. I didn't know much about the rivalry when I first began attending BYU. However, after going to my first BYU-Utah football game, which BYU lost, it did not take me long to start hating the Utes. I got particularly irked by some Ute fans who were razzing me with a big "Choose the Red" banner. Let's be honest. BYU fans hate Utah just as much as Utah hates BYU. Let's not pretend that one side is more civil than the other or that one side gets more pumped up than the other. There have been enough close games and losses on both sides the last few years to fuel this rivalry. Bring it on!

  • Re: Righteous Coug
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:10 p.m.

    You don't understand why the Ute fans hate you so much? I can gib=ve you my reason, "you always buy out all the twinkies at the store" and I can't find any to buy when I shop for my Aunt Emma.
    GO UTES!!!

  • A BYU/Utah History Lesson
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:12 p.m.

    The Twilight Zone (pre-1922):
    BY Academy 3
    Utah 2

    Since BYU didn't become a university until 1903, this time-period is disputed. BYU doesn't count it; Utah does, but they also count an April scrimmage in 1896 as a real game.

    The Dark Ages (1922-1964):
    Utah 34-2-4

    Utah had been playing football for 30 years when BYU started their football program and met Utah for the first time in 1922, with Utah winning 49-0. BYU tied Utah in 1928, 1938, and 1941, but didn't win their first game until 1942, 12-7. Soon after, BYU suspended their football program for the remainder of World War II. Too bad, Utah had their worst team ever in 1943, 0-7, win 5 shutout losses and an average score of 5-42.

    Utah won 19 conference championships, played in the Sun and Liberty bowls, finished #14 in the AP poll in 1964, and won 64% of their games (239-127-21).

    BYU, meanwhile, won 41% of their games (137-199-23), no conference championships, no bowl games, and no rankings.

  • Mike R
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:15 p.m.

    Y fans do get up for the game. Y players don't seem to.

    I went to Ricks and then to the U and my favorite T shirt to wear at the U was, "My favorite teams are BYU and whomever plays Utah." Even though I attended the U, that sentiment has not changed.

  • Some Things are Stupid
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:18 p.m.

    BYU Fans are snotty, stuck up, self righteous hypocrites. Ute Fans are drunk, crude, and vulgar hypocrites. Does this sound familiar?

    If you have a terrible experience with some fans. Blame those specific fans, not the entire fan base, and certainly not the opposing team and coaches. That is just stupid, literally.

    I belive that most BYU and Utah fans have more intelegence and class than that.

  • BYU fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:18 p.m.

    I think the passion in the rivalry splits 50-50. Though i am a BYU fan I don't hate the U too much, I'm glad that they have such a good program, and combined with BYU the state of Utah deserves a lot of credit for it's football programs.
    the term "holy war" on the other hand is the STUPIDEST thing i've ever heard! I hate it when people say that, espeically media people.
    This game is going to be great, wish I had tickets.
    BYU 21
    utah 17

  • Alex
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:23 p.m.

    What might gall some bitter Utes about a BYU Alumnus and Fan like me is the fact that I don't apologize for my love of BYU. Call me stiff, call me closedminded, call me self-righteous. Whatever.

    Look, I have good friends that are Utes, but as friends, we have proper respect for each other. Sure, we tease, we really do respect each other and there is no bitterness there.

    On the other hand, there are a few too many bitter Utes with a chip on their shoulder, that have this "more broadminded than thou" attitude. I have to admit, at times it is tempting to do something provocative just to help them enjoy their hate a little more. It seems to give them something to live for. And why not, the bitter ones don't want any reason to like anybody from BYU anyway.

  • Ref: Inferiority vs Reality
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:27 p.m.

    BYU's goal is not to go to the BCS. Utes fans and Boise State fans are satisfied with going to the BCS and happy to go back there, but BYU fans want to travel somewhere where utes and broncos have not been and that is back to a National Championship which neither team has done in the past. Set your sights low, a BCS, and be happy for achieving that low horizon. BYU is going to always shoot for the top and since it happened once before, it could happen again. The inferiority comes from utes fans setting low unimaginable goals and then failing to acheive them.

  • Pancho
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:29 p.m.

    Dick......From my perspective you have portrayed an accurate view of the Blue/Red Rivalry - Unfortunately, based on a quick read of your readers comments, you are "reaping" the vitriol for your "on-point" assesment.
    I am a resident transplant from my home state of Colorado, a graduate from Utah State, and have resided in this great State since 2001 as part of my profession. I am formost a cougar fan, but also root for the Utes outside the rivalry game.
    My background has provided my with a differenct perspective surrounding the "interesting' side of human behavior that is generated by this rivalry.
    I once socked a drunk Ute fan in the nose for urinating on an elderly cougar fan at RES; Likewise, I have watched in amazement as a cougar fan sat in prayer prior to the famous "4th and 18" play.
    God Bless us all, Dick.......but some of us really do need to get a life.
    Gracias for the great article

  • TRUE UTE FANS
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:33 p.m.

    I was at the Beavers game and saw the supposedly devout Ute fans leaving the stadium as fast they could with three minutes left in the game. Fortunately, the Ute players are quite the quitters that their fans are. Sad that only a small portion of the ute fans got to see a truly miraculous finish and victory. I felt bad that the player saw their supposedl devout fans bail on them when things looked dim. But that's ute fans for you.

  • I like it
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:35 p.m.

    Ha ha! "More broad-minded than thou." Classic. I love it.

    Some Ute fans think BYU is full of ignorant, self-righteous snobs.

    Some (albeit probably a smaller number--in my experience, much of the BYU student body simply doesn't care) BYU fans think the U is full of foul-mouthed drunks.

    There are truths to those statements, but only small ones.

    I had the privelege of attending LaVell's last game at Utah, and the Ute fans around us couldn't have been more gracious and sportsmanlike, even while passionately supporting the Utes. I wish I could say the same for some of the Utah State fans at this year's BYU-USU game.

    Here's the point. We all love football and there's no reason why this game has to be about anything more than football, and for the most part, that's the way it is.

  • Yo Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:36 p.m.

    Thanks for the article.......

    I will never read another one of your articles again.

    These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.

    ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE!

  • Game Day
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:45 p.m.

    Game day is right around the corner. Utes are going to parade their stuff and knock the stuffin out of the Cougar doll. Big sister will cry her eyes out.

  • BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:48 p.m.

    The reason that BYU fans hate Utah and Utah fans hate BYU is becuase they have had so many close games. I don't hate Utah becuase I think they are a bunch of bad mouthed drunks, and most Utah fans I know(and I grew up in salt lake so I know a lot) don't hate BYU becuase they think we are self-rightous and arrogant. We just like calling people names. We hate each other becuase the games are always so close. So would everybody please stop arguing and just them play. GO BYU!!!!

  • Stuck in 1984...
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:48 p.m.

    @ Ref: Inferiority vs Reality:

    BCS? We need no BCS!

    Regards,

    Ute envy

  • frothing at the mouth
    Nov. 18, 2008 1:54 p.m.

    Wow there are SO many frothing-at-the-mouth yoot fans posting here. DH hit a home run with this one. Way to go, DH! Five pages of comments and still growing. Keep up the good work!

    Even though yoot fans do get a lot more worked up over the games than we BYU fans and they do hate us whereas we do not hate them, I do feel very sorry for them because of what happened to their library one time. You see, there was a fire in their library and all 11 books were destroyed. The really sad thing is 5 of them hadn't been colored in yet.

    GO COUGARS!!!!

  • Peewit Fans
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:01 p.m.

    "Any man that judges by the group is a peewit."

    --Buster Kilrain "Killer Angels" by Michael Shaara

    As a Utah Alum, avid BYU fan, with mixed BYU/Utah alum parents, I grew up in Utah with an appreciation for the rivalry.

    Believe me, the rivalry hasn't always been so acrimonious.

    Blame it on LaVell.

    He turned a mediocre team into a national power, and in the process, turned the rivalry on its head.

    Utah fans who were used to dominating BYU were suddenly thrust into the unfamiliar role of whipping boy.

    BYU fans who had become numb to the annual beatings suddenly saw their team administering the annual beatings.

    It was natural for Utah fans to react with bitterness, and for BYU fans to respond with smugness.

    Utah finally became competitive again, even surpassing BYU in some respects and the rivalry heated up.

    Throw in the Mormon haters, yes there are those who aren't really Utah fans, but simply dispise BYU and anything else even remotely connected to the LDS church, and the volatile mixture began to brew.

    The rivalry has been reborn, with teams that are finally competitive.

    It's too bad that some fans just can't appreciate that!

  • Wayne Rout
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:05 p.m.

    Here's the deal... after this game, win or loose, I'll be pulling for Utah in their bowl game. Win or loose, the Utah fans will be pulling for whom every BYU plays. Cougar fans generally are comfortable with who they are, Utah fans are insecure and filled with doubt. The thing that amazes me is how fast the season has gone. After looking forward to this game for months, it is sad that it will soon be history. I hope that the Ute fans can be good sports and enjoy the game and show good sportsmanship. Who will win...we'll know all too soon.

  • LDSUTE
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:06 p.m.

    Love the church, can't stand the Y. The same arrogance that got the church booted from several states still exists in zoobie land. I guess BYU lost to TCU because Austin Collie yielded to temptation and broke a commandment that week. By the way, where is Lenny Gomes employed?

  • BYU needs to get fired up!
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:08 p.m.

    I'm a cougar fan and can honestly say that it seems every year that the Ute players are more fired up than BYU players. I think this is the reason that the cougars have not been able to crush Utah in years that it should have. 2001 is a good example of this, 2006 is an even better example. Why was it that the 2006 cougars, who in it's 8 previous games beat their opponents by an average of 30 points, had to come from behind to beat Utah in the final seconds? I can tell you why...lack of emotion!

  • Utah fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:09 p.m.

    Whether Harmon is right or wrong, my fellow Ute fan's defensiveness on the issue isn't helping the cause. We all know Harmon is a blueblood, and that's fine, but Ute fans' scathing comments about him and BYU fans in general only lends validation the inferiority complex theory. Just let it go. We should be above that.

    To the gentleman who not so subtlely claimed all U of U students still live at home: Please, tell me what's so adventurous about moving 30 minutes away to Provo and being among people who abide by the same rules issued by your parents even when not under supervision.

  • Amen.
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:09 p.m.

    First off, I'm sick of all the Ute fans commenting here. Deseret News is BYU zone -- go read your Tribune or something, or deal with the fact that the DN is going to favor the BYU opinion.

    Second off, there are no true Ute fans. There are true blue Coug fans, and then Coug-haters. Nobody loves cheering for a stepping stone, so get a life and leave Harmon alone.

  • Alex
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:15 p.m.

    Yo Dick:

    "These few paragraphs sum up why so many people dislike BYU.

    ABSOLUTE ARROGANCE! "

    Apparently we are not as humble as you are. Utes like you are so far advanced above our arrogance. Have patience, please. Show us lowly arrogant BYU snobs, pray tell, how we can ever hope to achieve the humility that you so bounteously exude.

  • Reed A Lott
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:15 p.m.

    re: Some Things are Stupid | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    Well. Utah fans anyway.

    re: frothing at the mouth | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

    A BYU fan who knows what a library is? I'm impressed or is it your calling to make sure everything back by the end of block time?

  • TucsonUte
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:16 p.m.

    If the DN sports writers were sitting around making bets on who could write the most inflammatory article for this week's game...Dick Harmon is the winner.

    I don't believe Utah fans take the rivalry more serious than BYU fans. Every-time I wear my U of U hat in public in Tucson, BYU fans come out of the woodwork and give me a hard time. All my buddies that are BYU grads usually send me an email each season before the game to remind me that BYU is going to beat the Utes. Once, as I suffered thru a 55-7 drubbing (wearing red) at Provo in 1983, I recall getting verbally abused (minus the swearing) all game by Y fans (even the old ladies). At every family reunion I attend-- it is the BYU fans that bring up the rivalry first. I even had to put up with BYU fans in 1988 whining while sitting in the U of U student section during a 57-28 Utah win.

    The only indifferent folks in Utah to the rivalry are USU and WSU alumni.

    A sportswriter friend in Utah told me once "it's not the BYU players or coaches I dislike--it's their fans.

  • King
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:19 p.m.

    BYU OR UTAH? Ask any team or group of coaches who they would want to play anytime, anywhere! Unanimously the answer would be BYU! Hands down! Everybody wants to play BYU, either out of RESPECT or HATRED, period! Utah does not have that kind of RESPECT! That's why they hate.

  • Stuck in 1984...
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:21 p.m.

    @ frothing at the mouth:

    Where can I find the Rameumptom?

    Regards,

    Self Righteous

  • Henry Drummond
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:22 p.m.

    I remember the days when for BYU to only lose to Utah by two touchdowns was considered a "moral victory". Then BYU went on a run where a BYU win was almost automatic. Now things are a lot more even.

    I would also agree that BYU fans don't get into this as much as Utah fans. I think that is because BYU fans are just so dog gone special, and special fans would never rag on their opponent or do anything to spoil their image of specialness.

    At any rate I would like to follow their special example and wish them a truly special time playing UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl while we play on a real team on New Years day.

    Go Utah.

  • History Lesson
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:22 p.m.

    What happened to the rest of the BYU/Utah history lesson? Did the DN red pen it?

  • Journalist
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:24 p.m.

    This was a column. A column is a piece of work giving opinions and observations of the writer. A column is not require--nor usually desired--to be piece of objective journalism.

  • Cougs care somewhat
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:26 p.m.

    After reading the article and some of the comments, I have 4 things to say:
    1-BYU fans care about the rivalry but not as much as Ute fans because: (a) half the Y student body comes from outside of Utah like AZ and CA, where the rivalry is meaningless; (b) many Ute students applied to the Y, and went to Utah after receiving the Y's rejection letter, so they have an axe to grind; and (c) state residents who are LDS and didn't attend the Y (see b) resent sending a portion of their tithing money to support BYU.
    2-Ute fans feel marginalized by the suggestion that Y fans don't care as much...time for some therapy.
    3-Utah will likely win the game due to its speed on defense and bruising running backs, but if the game's close at the end, the Y will have a distinct advantage as long as Brice McCain remains on the field.
    4-Even if BYU managed to pull the upset, I hope they don't get invited to a BCS Bowl--it could get ugly.

  • U're supposed to win!
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:29 p.m.

    Times have changed. Since the end of the Lavell era when there wasn't much character difference between BYU and Uni. of Miami football players, there is no doubt that Utah now has access to a broader range of athletes than BYU--speed kills.

    The honor code that Mendenhall actually enforces trims the talent pool available to BYU while Utah can draw on a broad range of athletes regardless of their personal vices.

    Additionally, although burdened by misinformation and exaggerations, Utah does not have to deal with the stigma of being perceived as an all-white institution to the same extent as BYU. Consequently, Utah fans are understandably ashamed, confused, and bloodthirsty when a bunch of slow prudes defeat their superior, mary-jane smokin, amoral athletes. Based on speed and strength that is the essence of success in college football, Utah should win on Saturday but, yet again, will not. Like they say, "When you do what's right, good things happen." Cougars 27, Utah 17.

  • Utah/BYU History II
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:31 p.m.

    The Age of Enlightenment (1965-1971):
    BYU 3
    Utah 4

    In 1965, BYU started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking Utah's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the first 50 years of the rivalry. Utah won the next four games, and then LaVell Edwards became BYU's head coach.
    The Cougars Rule (1972-1992):
    BYU 19
    Utah 2

    In 1972, a man destined to become a living legend in college football took the reins of the BYU program. During the next 21 years, LaVell's teams won a National Championship, 15 conference championships, played in 17 bowl games, won 74% of their games (191-67-3), won the most lopsided game in BYU/Utah rivalry history, 56-6 in 1980, won a Heisman trophy and numerous other individual awards, beat defending champion and #1 ranked Miami, and finished ranked in the Top 20/25 ten times.

    Utah, meanwhile, won 45% of their games (106-130-3), no conference championship, no bowls, and no rankings.

  • Mike Johnson Fallon NV
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:32 p.m.

    Re: Amen. The Deseret News belongs just as much to the Utes as it does to the Cougars. I have never liked the Tribune anywhere near as much as the Deseret News. The Deseret News covers the Utes. It is a Salt Lake paper. This article is about Ute fans. Why don't you go back to the Provo Herald? The Deseret News is pretty balanced between the two schools because it knows that its readership is split in its loyalties. The Provo Herald and the Salt Lake Tribune readers are not.

    Secondly, I am a true Ute fan who does not hate the Cougars. I have two bachelors degrees from Utah and a graduate degree from BYU. Note, there are as many Cougar fans who hate the Utes as there are Utah fans that hate the Cougars.

    BTW, having spent years at both schools and having read thousands of comments this year and in previous years, I can truthfully say that BYU fans stoke the fire on this rivalry as much as Utah fans. This includes the author o "Amen." who appears to be more of a Ute hater than a true Blue BYU fan.

  • BYU/Utah History III
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:32 p.m.

    The Age of Paradox (1993-2008):
    BYU 6
    Utah 9
    In 1993, Utah started a string of 3 straight wins, breaking BYU's dominance and more than doubling their win total from the last 20 years of the rivalry. Since then, weve seen many memorable games between these teams, with both teams enjoying the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, characterized by sayings like 34-31, Harline is still open, and 4th and 18.

    BYU has won 65% of their games (130-69), 7 conference championships, played in 9 bowl games, and finished ranked 5 times, with their highest finish #5 in 1996 (14-1).

    Utah has won 68% of their games (128-61), 4 conference championships, played in 10 bowl games, and finished ranked 3 times, with their highest finish #4/#5/#6 in 2004 (12-0).

    Overall
    BYU 494-371-26 (57%) , 23 conference championships
    Utah 593-417-31 (58%), 25 conference championships

  • Losers
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:32 p.m.

    If BYU has any trouble with Utah they can just call in some of those UteSmashing Babtists! Remember that game!!!!!!!!!!

  • They Want to Play
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:35 p.m.

    The reason the big schools want to play BYU is because it translates to a "W". Thank you. CHIRP CHIRP.

  • I went to the U of U and BYU!
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:41 p.m.

    I went to both schools, two years at Utah and two years at BYU. And yes, Utah hates BYU more than BYU hates Utah. I have no bias what so ever. It's just true.

  • Fiesta or Poinsettia
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:53 p.m.

    The Las Vegas bowl plans to invite BYU, whether the Cougars win or lose on Saturday.

    Utah will likely play in the Fiesta or Poinsettia Bowl.

    That will change if BYU plays in a BCS bowl.

  • BYU/ Utah Fans
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:56 p.m.

    Are the exact same. Except Y fans do it without the beer.

  • Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 2:57 p.m.

    Did you seriously just write this article? How do you stil have a job? This is the exact reason I can't stand DNews sports. You morons really are in a bubble, all the BYU fans I know hate the U. Thanks for proving how ignorant BYU fans are.

  • Alex
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:00 p.m.

    I am a BYU fan to the core (4th generation to be exact...it's in my genes), but I have to confess something. I applied to Utah for graduate school because they had a good program for my field (Gasp). Yes, there you have it. I said it. So, relax some of you.

    Just because I am longing for our Cougars to utterly murder you on the football field doesn't mean I don't have proper respect for your school. It is your football team and some of the bitter fans that need a good spanking.

  • Ready for the Game
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:04 p.m.

    Can't wait for the game Saturday. As a BYU fan the only thing I can really say is that I hate Utah...yea, hate is definitely the emotion. I hope they lose every game they play. Really, I do.

    I loved the days back in the 80s and part of the 90s when BYU would put up huge points against Utah. Loved those games. The past 2 years have been great too. Winning in the last few minutes is a great way to cause Utah pain and anguish. Loved the "boinked" field goal game too. That was great fun. Still makes me smile to think of it.

    Unfortunately, Utah is pretty good this year. I'll hope for the best, but I have no disillusions of a blowout. I'd love to see Utah's current kicker boink a field goal late in the game.

    Even if Utah beats BYU on Saturday, I still hope they get thrashed in their BCS bowl. I'll cheer for whoever they play against. I can't help it.

  • Re: $100
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:08 p.m.

    I think I got one for you...
    How's about t-shirt that has "U got Perfection! 2008"
    Let the U is ofcourse bolded red, and "got Perfection! 2008" are also red.

    SoCalUtahFan

  • C L
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:09 p.m.

    I have been a loyal Cougar fan for years, but I have to say, I am also a Mtn West Conf supporter, and for this game, sad to say, I hope the Utes win, because I want someone from the MWC to go to a BCS bowl game. If BYU wins, very likely none of the MWC teams will get that chance; so I am rooting for the U this time around, even though it really rubs me the wrong way. I do think this rivalry goes too far sometimes, as Hate is never a good thing, and has no place in athletics or anywhere else.

  • Dick Harmon
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:09 p.m.

    is clearly stuck in the past. Utah fans have moved so far past BYU being their "bowl game" that BYU is now almost irrelevant, other than being the final stepping stone to another BCS appearance

  • afrank
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:09 p.m.

    This is ridiculous. It's football. Get over it and start enjoying what life has to offer without it.

  • Hey Dick!!!
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:13 p.m.

    If Byu players don't care about this rivalry, then why did your beloved Jon Beck Cry like a baby after Utah beat them? Why are Byu fans headbutting utah fans and not to mention tackling our guy cheerleaders? Why are they still talking about Harlin "still being open" when none of us can figure out who Harlin even play's for anymore? The point is, that if Byu actually cared more about their bowl game than their rivalry game with Utah, then maybe they would actually win more than 2 bowl games in a decade. Dick I'd have to say that you did a great job BSing this article, because it doesn't matter how long you've been writting in Utah, you obviously have no idea what the heck you are even talking about. Stick to doing what you're good at, being BYU's mascot. You unbiased Piece of...

  • Not an Einstein!
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    "This is the exact reason I can't stand DNews sports."

    Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

    Everyone knows that Dick Harmon is a BYU homer, so for someone who constantly returns to the DN to read Dick Harmon's column suggests:

    1. He's a BYU hater who simply uses Dick Harmon's column as a dependable blog to spew his hatred.

    2. He's a Utah fan who's simply a glutton for punishment.

    3. He's a BYU hater/Utah fan who fits Einstein's classic definition.

  • Publius
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    All you have to do is read the comment section to see what Harmon is getting at. It's not that BYU fans don't care. It's that, on average, they just behave a whole lot better.

    I am a University of Utah alum, and I wish the team well on Saturday. But I don't set foot in RES anymore because the behavior of so many Ute fans is so dismayingly borish. I'm not saying that their isn't poor behavior on both sides. I am saying that, on average, I think the behavior of Ute fans is worse. And it's embarrassing.

  • Alex
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    C L:

    "If BYU wins, very likely none of the MWC teams will get that chance; so I am rooting for the U this time around, even though it really rubs me the wrong way. "

    It should.

  • It's the Logic, Stupid
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:23 p.m.

    To Where's the Logic:

    You wrote: "That could be the most rediculous line of logic I've ever heard. Typical of a BYU fan."

    Interesting that you found the logic the most "ridiculous" you "ever heard." I take that to mean you had to have someone read it to you?

    Typical illiterate, Ute fan.

  • great article
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:24 p.m.

    Way to push buttons Dick! I love it! Utah fans can barely breath. It so easy to get red fans in a tail spin.

  • Bulls-eye
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:27 p.m.

    Dick, you certainly hit the bulls-eye with this topic. All the posters only prove the point you were trying to make.

    Poor, Ute fans still can't grasp the difference between a column and a news article. And someone really should explain to these people what a beat writer is.

    Besides, I heard a rumor that you tried to contact a few Utes for this article, but they were all busy urinating on pictures of Max Hall. (And yet, the Ute honks still can't grasp that the rivalry is a bigger deal for them than the Cougars.)

    Enjoy the Poinsettia Bowl, Ute fire-stokers!

  • FRutes
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:32 p.m.

    Everyone is missing the point. The last twenty years may be even in number of wins, but during that time, BYU has typically been playing for another conference title while Utah was playing ONLY to beat BYU. Therefore, the wins over the last two decades on the Utah side are considered bigger achievements to Utah than BYU wins to coogs. Put another way, even when BYU lost to Utah, BYU usually finished ahead of Utah in the conference race which still gave BYU bragging rights. Can anyone show me over the last 20 years how many times Utah finished ahead of BYU in the conference ? hardly ever.

  • Re: Hey Dick!!!
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:39 p.m.

    You have no idea what your talking about!!! Harline is better than Alex Smith in the NFL (and Harline has been on just practice squads) Your beloved Alex Smith just stole a ton of money from niners? that is the team he plays for isn't, haven't noticed his INT's lately, must not be playing. What a waste of a player by drafting Alex Smith, he's horrible... The New Ryan Leaf = Alex Smith

  • Probably, Exactly?
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:39 p.m.

    We are so glad to talk about this game instead of the pathetic president elect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I thought Todd Christiansen was a HOMER. This journalist, and I use the term very loosely, really did his homework. He talked to Jan (even more pathetic) Jorgensen for his in depth insight and non-biased reporting. Use this article as a resume for CNN or MSNBC. Keith Olberman will be waiting to invview you. OH, I forgot, the SL Tribune has more people reading than watching Keith Obama Olberman.

  • The Game
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:41 p.m.

    Yale-Harvard is THE Game. Utah is local and BYU is more national, but neither have significance. The Game (No need to repeat Yale-Harvard since everyone knows the teams.) is played with intensity, cleverness and respect, not seeing who can be more low rent. No event in RES matters. Go Bulldogs!

  • The Cheese
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:45 p.m.

    Harmon is right - I am an LDS U fan and hate all things BYU, probably more than any Y fan hates the U. I'll admit it - it's 100% true.

    Will someone please tell me why it is a bad thing to passionately hate your rival?

  • BYU Alumn
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    I'm embarrassed that a BYU player would discount his rival's accomplishments. BYU needs to remember that the rivalry is even over the past two decades with most of the momentum being on the Utah's side.

    In particular, we still haven't broken into the BCS and Utah, if they win,will have done so twice. We can talk all we want but we have to remember that until we have perfect seasons and BCS Bowl wins, we are not dominant.

  • The SCC/Big 12 / Big 10
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:52 p.m.

    laugh at your pitiful conference!! Man, that is one thing I miss moving to Utah, is the chance to see a real top team play. Y/U are okay, but nothing compared to Texas, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma... etc... Sorry, but you guys are second rate compared to those programs.

    You can deny/hate/ spew facts about how you have beaten our bottom dwelling teams... you would never beat these top dogs, at least not this year!

  • I'm ready too...
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    I appreciate the honesty of the y fan above who admits to hating the U. I think that is great - that's what a rivalry is.

    I'm sure that I hate the y just as much as he hates the U. I smile everytime byu gets beat in whatever it is. I love it when your team loses - it's even sweeter when it is the U handing you the loss.

    This should be a great game - both teams are very good a combined total of 21 and 1 (it's great that the y has the loss). However, I don't remember a game between them when both teams were so good.

    I do of course hope that the U beats them severly and it would be icing on top if we could injure of few of their players along the way.

    Go UTES!!!

  • Rick Harmon is a Rick
    Nov. 18, 2008 3:55 p.m.

    I just cancelled my subscription to the Deseret News after reading such an idiotic article. I like reading the Church News on Saturday but will simply borrow it later.

    There is just as much dislike (hate as you say) from BYU fans as there is from Utah. I don't know that anyone truly hates anyone but rather dislikes the other a few times per year. If we hated, we would take action. We would move, burn and hurt each other. This won't happen here.

    Rick is a homer. Please give me a chance to write for Deseret News. I know my articles would be more biased. Time to quit and go work for the Daily Herald. They love a homer.

  • To FRutes
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    Utah's win over BYU to go to the BCS in 2004 trumps any BYU win over Utah for a conference title. Sensible BYU fans understand that.

  • Bleed Blue!
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    When BYU beats Utah on Nov 22 the following will be lost from Utah's dreams: BSC Bowl Game hopes, gone! Mountain West Conference Champions, lost! And for the third year in a row BYU will have the bragging rights! Thats a lot to lose Utah in just one game, sorry. Go Cougies!!! Brian Johnson is way over-rated, fyi.

  • Aaron
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:08 p.m.

    The non lds Ute fans hate BYU because of the mormon thing. The lds ute fans don't necessarily hate byu, but dislike them. I think its funny that their tithing money goes to the university, not the athletic department, but every where else. The Byu fans hate the utah fans for being hated. Does that sound good?

  • RE: bylol
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:10 p.m.

    Yes, I do and by a lot! Watch and see.

  • The SCC is laughing?
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:10 p.m.

    Is that mighty Spokane Community College?

  • Re: The Game
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:11 p.m.

    Yes, Harvard vs. Yale is a wonderful rivalry. Those in Crimson are just and true, while those who wear the block "Y" are known as feeble and lame. Hmmm... sounds familiar, eh?

    Go Crimson! Go Utes!

    - Ute alum 88, Harvard alum 92 (happily rejecting BYU both times!)

  • Bleed Blue!
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    First off Im a Cougar fan and always will be!! I was always taught to hate Utah since birth and have always hated Utah. This game is what college football is all about. And its going to be great when BYU comes out with yet another win. Lick em Utah! Go cougies!!!

  • ** Yawn **
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    All I had to do was read the title of this article to know everything it said, what insightful, exciting journalism, way to go Harmon. In the days leading up to what many believe will be the most exciting MWC game on record, this is the twaddle you come up with.

  • Get off of your Pedistal
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:28 p.m.

    BYU fans, you really need to get down off of your self righteous puffed up pedestal and get into reality. Your fans are just as rude, ignorant, and mean as Ute fans. Those of you who say that I have been to both stadiums and the Ute fans are meaner are stupid, of course they were as I am sure you were wearing BYU paraphernalia at the Y game, idiot! Reality is fans on both sides can be rude, ignorant, and mean.

  • BYU fans are so kind
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    My family recently moved here so I could finish grad school at the U. We live in Utah County and my kids have been razzed by both kids their age and adults about their liking of the U. In fact one of my daughters went with the young women to a BYU game (SDSU) this year and she felt bad that no one was cheering for SDSU and not really liking BYU she proceeded to cheer for them. What is appalling is that these so called pleasant and kind fans threw water bottles at her, called her names, and were flat out ignorant. She is 14. I could not believe that someone would pick on a 14 y/o girl. Personally, I like BYU, I just like Utah more. What I cant stand are the whiny BYU fans that act like their crap doesnt stink. Some of you talk about the rivalry only being one sided, well, when I wear my Ute cap or shirt to University Mall; I have all kinds of crap thrown at me. It only looks one sided when you refuse to look in the mirror.

  • Cougar man
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:43 p.m.

    While there are definitely idiots on both sides of the rivalry, the lone fact that the overwhelming number of responses to this article have come from Ute fans speaks volumes to the validity of the article.

  • Inside Source
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:46 p.m.

    My father's ex-business partner, who I know personally and spoke with about this, is an executive at FOX Sports in the College Football division that manages the relationship with the BCS.

    He confirmed that they have discussed at length that if Utah wins on Saturday, they will put them in the BCS title game versus either Alabama or Florida (depending on who wins between them on Dec6).

    How awesome will it be if Utah wins the national title!!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:47 p.m.


    Re: Re: Ignorant | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    Collie's backed up everything? Short memory you have. Sound familiar..."We're gonna put a, put a hurt on 'em." If a 52-21 drubbing is putting a hurt on a team, please come hurt us again. The kid's braindead.
    ______________________

    You're absolutely right. That's almost as stupid as, say, claiming you're going to win the Heisman.

  • Self Righteous
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:49 p.m.

    I have often heard that word thrown around and frequently aimed at BYU or the LDS church. I have often wondered what does it mean and why would someone chose that word? After much contemplation and observing people, I have come to the conclusion it is a slam word used to demean anyone who is more successful at living certain principles than themselves. If I chose not to live up to certain higher standards of personal behavior, and I feel guilt, when I see someone who is more successful at living up to standards than myself, I might use that word to discribe the more successful person. Lately however, I have tried to re-think my jealousy and my personal behavior. Rather than demean a more successful person than myself, I now try to emulate their behavoir in my own life. Guess what happened? I too have been called "selfrighteous" by people with whom I have politely declined participation in their inappropriate behavior. So much for being "selfrighteous".

  • Spell check
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:51 p.m.

    And if you can't find a "pedistal" to get off of, then, oh, well, get off your pedastal.

    Your Ute education is showing.

  • Thanks Cougar Man
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:52 p.m.

    For Proving the point about BYUs arrogance. You truly are a cut above. Be careful not to scratch our chin on the ceiling.

  • Sam the Butcher
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    Re: Probably? Exactly?

    Yo, Dude, Inspector Clouseau just called ... you're under investigation for murdering the English language.

    Could you possibly post something that makes less sense?

  • Up set Ute
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:58 p.m.

    LOL Listen to all these up set Ute fans.

  • No hyporcrites
    Nov. 18, 2008 4:59 p.m.

    I have wasted about an hour (slow reader) reading all these blogs. I have learned one very valuable thing from this: All the hypocrites are from BYU! Utah doesn't have any! I have thought about this and can only conclude that the reason is that at the U of U, all behavior is acceptable and equal, therefore,no hypocrites! At BYU everyone is a hypocrite if they can't walk on water and they cheer for their team! I get it now!

  • FL UTE
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    Mr Harmon...

    An idiotic take on the nation's funnest rivalry! YOur view: Devils on one side, Angels on the other. Reality: It's a mix on both sides.

    As for the game, look for the UTE Defense to shut down the coogies run game, but the excellent BYU passing game to gets it's licks in. A close game, with the RED defense bending but not breaking, BJ and Ute offense keeping things close, and King Louis making the difference in the end.

    Utah by 5!

  • Re; Self Rightous: 4:49
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    What exactly were you trying to prove? Were you trying to validate those who have used the word? Who are you to say that you are better at living any gospel principles? Who are you to judge that you are living a better life then another? You see, you have made the point of the ones who have used the term without even intending to. BYU fans like to use statements like the Lords school or term Utah as the devils school someone told my kids this. My kids once told this friend that the Prophet at the time (Pres Hinckley) graduated from the U. Her friend said, Well he later repented. You see, BYU fans get the self righteous label, not because they are living right, but because they act like they are more righteous because they are Y fans. BYU fans bring the religion thing on themselves. Its not a wonder why non-members hate the BYU.

  • What I have learned ...
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    What I have learned from reading these boards :

    * All BYU fans are self righteous jerks that think their football team is better than it actually is and anyone who is a BYU fan can't see the forest for the trees.

    * All Utah fans are in your face beer-drinking (or apostate) loud mouth jerks that think their football team is better than it actually is and anyone who is a Utah fan can't see the forest for the trees.

    I am glad that we all have grown up and act like the adults we are by not making wide blanket statements about groups of other people. Hooray for humanity!

  • Bwa-Ha-Ha
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:04 p.m.

    Thanks, Inside Information, for making my day. That is the funniest thing I've read in this entire thread.

    At least we now know why this guy is an "ex" business partner to your dad. He was probably carted off in a strait-jacket.

    It would truly have to be a doomsday scenario, where every favored team to get in lost in their league championship game. As it stands, the NC game will match the SEC (Alabama or Florida) vs. the Big 12 (Texas Tech, Oklahoma or Texas). USC would get in before them, too.

    This absurd talk will be even more funny when BYU wins on Saturday. Then the Utes will fall from the National Championship game to the Poinsettia Bowl with one loss.

    Go FGS!

  • Re: Spell Check
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:06 p.m.

    You're a loser and an embarrasment to the Cougar nation.

    Go Cougs!

  • Bundy
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    The fact that Ute fans are providing more fire for the rivalry than BYU fans means that we need to step it up! Common BYU fans, where is your passion!?! This is a rivalry for heavens sake!

    Don't try to take the high road; don't try to put things in perspective and say 'it's just a game.' Being a real fan isn't just about an irrational life-long loyalty to your team; it is about hating your rival with all the passion you are capable of.

    You don't have to hate Ute fans as people. Show respect for them as people, but show complete disrespect for their team and their loyalty to that team.

  • H8 Red
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    Ute fans love to hate. They find affirmation at their blue-jobs and in their redneck lives by hating. They should all change their first name to Darth.

    ;)

  • RE: Spell Check
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:08 p.m.

    Would you like a star for catching a simple spelling error? I did not realize this was a spelling test. You must be such an intellectual giant, congratulations. Now you might want to get back out and deliver the pizzas before they get cold.

  • Mr. Cougar
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:09 p.m.

    Dick Harmon is an embarassment to BYU. As true blue fans, we hate when you write articles meant to incite and create jabs. It's heated enough without your journalistic views. Please stop writing these articles.

    Go Cougs!

  • re..Self Righteous
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:09 p.m.

    You're correct, that is a very good definition of what being self righteous means, internally. The problem people, not just Utah fans but fans and non-fans from all over the world, have with the LDS church and BYU is that they love to tell you how self righteous they are, and how you are not. Has nothing to do with jealousy of how you live your life, it has to do with the basis of your post. The fact that you have to tell all of us just how well you live your life according to your own standards is called being self righteous outwardly. Please, fill free to live to whatever personal standards you wish, but I and many others don't want to hear about it, don't want to live that way, and don't need you looking down your nose at us for not living up to your standards. Perhaps a little more contemplation might be in order, but this time keep it too yourself, and be as self righteous with yourself as you wish.

  • win or lose we still win
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:13 p.m.

    If we lose this game to yewtah it will be because Bronco let them win in order to send an MWC team to a BCS bowl and get some BCS money for our conference. (Note: Bronco will NOT - solely out of pure kindness and pity - ever admit that this is the case)

    If we beat yewtah it will be because Bronco decided he'd rather get the win and to heck with the money.

    This game is a win-win situation for BYU no matter how you look at.

  • Harmon vs Rock
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    You attack Harmon, but forget about Brad Rock. Does this mean Harmon is more read than Rock? (shush, don't tell Rock)
    Brad Rock is the biggest Ute fan in the media and all of you attack Harmon for being a BYU fan?
    The Red Herring is alive and well, not only in politics, but now in sports....I won't even go into talk-radio and all the jabs taken at BYU and its fans.
    The irony is amazing. Go read a few Brad Rock articles, people, then come back here and comment.

  • Re:....Self Righteous
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    You can analyze and intellectualize it all you want but the fact remains that when a group of people say they are more righteous because of a football team, there is a problem. That in my mind is being self righteous. Now, not all BYU fans do this. In fact, I respect the ones that separate Church from football. I dont know what you are talking about but I am talking about football. What does going to church, reading the BOM, taking a dinner to a needy family, or living right in any manner have to do with football except maybe help Austin Collie catch a TD pass? It doesnt, so leave religion out of the game. If you want to talk defense, offense, or game strategy then that is legit. But to condemn me and tell me I am going to heck because I like the Utes (which has happened many times) to me epitomizes self righteous behavior. Reminds me a bit of Rameumpton (spelling may be off and I noticed we have the spelling police out in full force) if I ever saw it.

  • Won or Lose 5:13
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:40 p.m.

    Yea like any coach would purposely loose a game. Get your head out of the clouds. If Utah wins, it will be because they are the better team, if BYU wins likewise it will be because they are the better team.

  • BYU Nerds & Utah Bullies
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:43 p.m.

    Harmon nailed it, Utah always comes out so fired up and ready to play and BYU doesn't. Utah always plays BYU hard, even if BYU is supposed to be way better, but BYU doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly. Just look at the TCU game. TCU shocked BYU with their emotion and how fired up they were.

    As for the fans, BYU has a nerd contingent and Utah has a bully contingent. Both sides have nerds and both sides have bullies; but BYU has a lot more nerds and Utah has a lot more bullies.

  • Re: win or lose 5:13PM
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:44 p.m.


    I love it!!!
    Kewgs already make some excuses for BYU losing.
    Nice try.

  • Wongchongchewy
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:48 p.m.

    Wait a second...you ARE going to Heck if you like the Utes...been doing some good ole coug missionary work on my brother but he's a goner.

  • What is BYU?
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:53 p.m.

    Is BYU a real school? I have never heard anything about them except for an occasional basketball bid and the football game this year.

    Is it a 4-year university or a community college?

    Out east

  • Did I just read.......
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:56 p.m.

    a Prop 8 take? How did a law that was past in california pop up on a UTAH vs BYU message board? Good job coog fans. Are ute fans going to be caring "Pro Choice" signs as well? Stay on topic.

  • SR Burton
    Nov. 18, 2008 5:58 p.m.

    Is this a result of native Utahans being of inferior intelligence? Why is it that out-of-state affiliates from either school, don't get so caught up in the social ramifications of either team losing this game? As an alumni of BYU, I will certainly be rooting for the football team to win, but if they lose, I won't have any trouble sleeping for the next 7 nights. Then I will be rooting for UTAH to win their BCS match up. Why is it that a bunch of supposedly lower IQ jocks and coaches generally tend to show more maturity than these obviously low self-esteem, frustrated fans? Maybe, it is because they really do understand the game of football and realize it is about Football and University and not about success in life. Having lived in the shadow of the Oregon vs Oregon State rivalry, I can understand rivalry, but you people sound like a bunch of spoiled little brats that never grew up and never will. Maybe, it's the right wing bastion of conservatism you dwell in, because some of you sound as if you just walked of the Rush Limbaugh show. Get a life!

  • Why?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:06 p.m.

    The Ewts, and most others, hate BYU for the same reason the French, and most others, hate the USA. Ponder that.

    I expect Utah to win. I'll live with that and wish the Ewts the best in their BCS game.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:08 p.m.

    WOW - I'm from Las Vegas - by the way - it's a big city south of you guys. I tell you that because it sounds like a bunch of twelve year olds on this blog. Outside of Utah - people don't care what religion you are unless you are gay/lesbian and from California. WHY are you guys so polarized on religion - if you are LDS show that you are by the content of your life. And those not LDS - get a life and live it and let other's live their own as their conscience dictates. I couldn't even begin to think about living in UTAH for the mere fact of the LDS/NON-LDS stigma. Sounds like a lot of Utah's residence have self-esteem issues. Live your lives as your conscience dictates and try to contribute positive energy to life in whatever philosophy you wish to have direct your life. UTAH - LDS & NON-LDS get over yourselves and live a good life!

  • Self righteous
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:10 p.m.

    Your fans our more obnoxious than our fans, blah, blah, blah. I grew up during BYU's big run and had classy BYU fans calling my home to trash talk every time the Y won. My dad was the Bishop and our ward members would rub it in and crack U of U jokes from the pulput on Sunday after the game. Both fan bases are made up of rabid fans, some of whom are classy and most of whom are boorish. I sure hope Harmon is right and the Y is thinking that this game is just another scrimmage. Maybe Max Hall will skip the game and go to the mall instead.

  • Love the rivalry
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:14 p.m.

    ...though some of you people are total loud-mouthed losers. I mean, it's just a football game.

    Grew up loving the Utes, but went to BYU and hope the Cougs pull it out. But, I do cheer for the Utes in every other game. Makes us all look better.

    Let me just reiterate how annoying the extremes on either side are. Don't believe me? Read 90% of the posts above. Get a life people.

  • Re: Re: Self Righteous 5:01pm
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:29 p.m.

    Right on point. I have extended family, in-laws, ward members, etc. who are avid Y fans. My experience has been that they, BYU people, judge me in accordance with THEIR values. My in-laws...I have been told how many kids to have, how to spend my money, that I am inferior to them because I graduated from the "U". It was made very clear to me that I was to follow my brothers'-in-law example/lead. We learn in kindergarten to pick on the one who is different, right? These are specific examples of the broader picture of the other groups I listed above.

    What I have learned is that it's nothing more than their judgment of me based on their own criteria. Non-compliance with their values, and I am the one who is out of step/different.

    What I don't get is...what is the genesis of this behavior and why is it so common among BYU people? I have not yet figured out if people with personalities like this are attracted to BYU like a fly to a garbage can, or, if after being affiliated with BYU, people develop this type of personality. Chicken or the egg.

    Thoughts?

  • To "out east"
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:38 p.m.

    You're a dork. I grew up in the East and nobody... I mean NOBODY knew a thing about the u. But everyone had heard of BYU, mainly thanks to Jim McMahon and Steve Young.

  • Re: Why?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:39 p.m.

    What an irrational comment. What is your basis for such a statement? Do you have one or is it just your way of being irresponsible?

  • Heisman
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:42 p.m.

    Just noticed that Brian Johnson is on this week's Heisman Watch List. See FOX Sports.

    Congratulations, BJ!!

  • To: SR Burton
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:56 p.m.

    Commenting is boorish?? Then you comment?? Vocabulary isn't intelligence.

  • Why hate?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:57 p.m.

    A lot of things had to happen for Utah to beat TCU. It was a miracle that they did. I am so glad that Utah beat TCU so that BYU still has a chance to pull off their own upset against Utah this Saturday. If a team like TCU can lay an egg and give the game to Utah like I was hoping, then why can't a team like Utah fail to put away a team like BYU?

    I'm a fan of the game. I just want what is best for my team. If Utah wins, then I hope Utah represents BYU well in a BCS game. If BYU wins, that is always the best outcome for me, regardless of BCS implications (that are lame and unpredictable anyway). Don't hate me for making it all about BYU.

    If you are a real fan you'll do the same for your team. I'm biased and think BYU has been the better team to cheer for over the years, and I expect Utah fans to be just as biased for Utah. This year, I will never forget BYU's domination of UCLA. Not sure, this rivalry game can be any more memorable. We'll see!

  • Alternate Reality?
    Nov. 18, 2008 6:57 p.m.

    We read angry, hate-laced comments from BYU fans on newspaper commments sections. We watch BYU party like it's 1999 when beating Utah. We listen to Bronco tell reporters he has prohibited his players from talking about the Utah game after the Air Force game. We have BYU fans tell we Ute fans the last two years, how now the college football world is the way it is supposed to be, because BYU beat Utah. And on and on and on.

    Then the Dick Harmon's of the world write stuff like this? Seriously, what alternate universe are these guys living in?

    Recently, it sure seems like the anger and bitterness of BYU fans toward the U has gone through the roof. If the U wins on Saturday, earning it's SECOND BCS bowl, to BYU's ZERO, look out!! That anger will go through the roof next year!! Holding such a superiority complex towards your rival has got to be pretty tough to deal with when they've achieved once- or possibly twice after Saturday- what you can not achieve yourself.

    Awesome. The BYU fan bitterness, anger, and hatred towards the U is icing on the cake of another great Ute season!! Go Utes!!

  • Dick is a Homer
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:04 p.m.

    Dick is a homer and he will get his on 11/22 when the sky falls on him and his kitties. Then what will he be writing about?

  • I'm LDS
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:11 p.m.

    I grew up a BYU fan. I am a memebr of the LDS church in good standing. Articles like this fuel the perception that BYU fans are self righteous.

    Dick, think before you write. You are hurting the image of BYU and the church. I could tell you stories about BYU fans that that would make you cringe... but then again you would probably look the other way.

  • Probably?Exactly?
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:22 p.m.

    To Sam the Butcher

    Re-read the article. Paragraph 5. I was quoting the buffooooone who wrote it.

  • Hey Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:22 p.m.

    Why no mention in your article about the BYU fans that dumped soda, hot dogs etc. on the Utah players in 1994 at LES stadium following Utah's win?

    Why no mention of the BYU fan that tackled the Utah cheerleader at LES a few years later? Nice balanced reporting Dick!

  • Saturday Post Headlines
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:27 p.m.

    McCain Picks Hall To Spoil Cougs Day. Isn't this the way it should end? Redemption is sweet.

  • Bedtime
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:34 p.m.

    for all of the children who have been blogging here all day.

    Almost 350 posts, and well over 300 of them (Utah and BYU fans alike) are the written equivalent of a bunch 2nd graders sticking out their tongues at each other.

    It would be interesting to read something remotely approaching a critical analysis of the actual game, but that is apparently beyond the mental capacity and maturity level of this crowd.

    -----------------------

    Both teams are good, but neither team has played their best, yet. Utah's defense is great, but their offense is spotty. BYU's offense is great, but their defense is spotty. Special teams are good for both teams. Utah has a great kicker. BYU has a good kicking game and has been very good at blocking kicks. Punting has been excellent for both teams.

    If BYU plays with the fire they had in the third quarter at Air Force, the Cougars have a chance.

    If they don't, the Utes will have a field day.

    The Key to the Game will be:

    Turnovers

    the team that is +2 in turnovers will win.

  • OhioCoug
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:47 p.m.

    2 years ago I was interviewing at a professional program at the U during rivalry week. Plastered all over their school newspaper was something about a Find Cosmo Scavenger hunt. They had a pistol held up to the side of a cosmo cougar doll and a bullet hole with blood (ketchup) pouring out the side of his head. That was the school paper! The Ute fans are definatley a lot more passionate/mean spirited about this rivalry. BYU never felt so intense during rivalry week. There is more to life than football. Except for this week.

  • Dick ran out of things to write
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:55 p.m.

    Looks like he's just trying to stir the pot.

  • Ben
    Nov. 18, 2008 7:58 p.m.

    I totally agree that the Ute fans are the guys who take this seriously. I am a BYU fan but I also like the Utes. It kind of puzzles me when I hear Ute fans attacking BYU. When they attack BYU they are attacking one of the main teams from their conference, and hence attacking their own strength of schedule. I hope that BYU and Utah both kick some butt in their respective bowl games.

  • re: to FRutes 4:01pm
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:01 p.m.

    "Utah's win over BYU to go to the BCS in 2004 trumps any BYU win over Utah for a conference title. Sensible BYU fans understand that."


    Doesn't trump BYU beating utah in 1984 to get the #1 ranking going into their bowl game and then being unanimously voted #1 for the National Championship.

    Sounds like you need to do a little more research before posting a dumb comment, junior. Sensible ute fans understand that.

  • Dick
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:09 p.m.

    If you want to advance the image of BYU and the church to a better level, you can't write stuff like this.

  • re: to FRutes 8:01 pm
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:10 p.m.

    1984 bowl game? Ah, yes...the Holiday Bowl against 6-5 team from Michigan. Unanimous vote, you say. Oh, that's right, it was unanimous because everyone else had lost that year. So, today we have the BCS to ensure a fiasco like 1984 never happens again.

    Even head in the sand BYU fans understand that.

  • Dick Dork
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:11 p.m.

    You need to go back to writing for the Herald. How can the DN be a real newspaper with your dribble in it all the time.
    Maybe years ago this might have had some truth to it - but anytime players and fans of the Why say, "it is just another game" I know they are lying. Get over it Dick and the rest of the Why groupies - it is a rivalry just as much for the Why as the U now.

  • Got game
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:13 p.m.

    I look forward to this game ever year as do many of you. I can't remember why I dislike Ute fans so much and only cheer for the Utes to have a good record so that when BYU wins it hurts even more. Only deer hunting weekend rates higher on my entertainment scale than this game. I don't feel compeled to bad mouth any specific person or groups from U of U. I just know I hate you on game day. The game will be great no matter which way it ends up. Sunday I will speak to my neighbor agin and I will be counting the day's until next year. Until then Utah good luck in the Vegas bowl. BYU will play very well in a BCS bowl. Yes that is what I said. Mark my Word. BYU by 55.

  • re: Bedtime
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:16 p.m.

    I'm glad you're going to bed. Your post was very whiney and immature.

    GO UTES!!!!

  • Big Pepsi
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:16 p.m.

    Go Hurricane beat JD. Fridays game is going to be better than saturdays game. BYU will spoil the bcs hopes for the utes. Utah has no DB's to cover Collie PERIOD. BYU 37 Utah 34.

  • Funny
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:18 p.m.

    The more and more I read and hear Cougar fans and writers talk about how much more important the game is to Utah the more clear it becomes that this is just an effort to talk themselves into believing it. The talk of Utah looking up at them from the bottom for so long and blah blah blah. What they dont realize is that most college students (even in the state of Utah are under 25 years old. If you look at the last 20 years I think the rivalry is 10-10. It sounds to me that this is a play to the over 40 Cougar nation that still remembers Bosco and Young and their National Prominence. Too bad it doesnt work, not that it is all the Cougars fault. The Mtn Channel has killed all national exposure to some great MWC teams in the past 5 years. In its place is the Wac playing on ESPN and Boise State is reaping the rewards. Thanks to our conferences fearless leader Thompson for ruining a great football league.

  • The best ever.
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:19 p.m.

    BYU is the best because it has as many conference championships in the last two years as the Utes have in the last 44. Congrats you won 4 in a row during the darkest years of BYU football since before Lavell. Wait for Bronco to put 19 of 20 wins against the Utes to start his career just like Lavell did.
    PS you already got your first win so looks like the next 17 will be all BLUE

  • Good Point DICK
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:19 p.m.

    You are right. If Jan Jorgensen says the Ute fans hate BYU more than BYU fans hate Utah, that must be so. He's a completely objective third party.
    Hey Dick, Try this sometime just for giggles. Go a game in Provo, or actually you might be recognized by your Cougar pals, so send your wife or kid to a game in Provo wearing Ute gear. Instruct them to say nothing, do nothing, just sit and watch. Do you know what things will be said to them? It's not pretty on either side of the rivalry. But I guess some crappy journalist that "bleeds blue" shouldn't be considered objective.

  • Re: Re: Spell Check 5:06
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:29 p.m.

    Are you kidding me...

    Cougar NATION
    "The WORLD is our campus"
    "The Daily UNIVERSE"

    Is there ANYBODY out there in BYU-dom who sees how utterly STUPID this is???? And you are proud of being a part of this non-sense??



  • Karl, VA
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:32 p.m.

    I just wish the game was on a real television station, and not "the mtn". If you are trying to raise the profile of the conference, it's probably not too productive to broadcast the games on a network that is inaccessible to most.

  • BYU fans have strong emotions!
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:36 p.m.

    Sorry Dick, but I don't hate the Utes, I just hate to LOSE TO THE UTES!

    Your opinion was probably more accurate in the late 80's. I was a frosh at the Y in 1988 and Utah was definitely another game. I don't think that I even watched it. But my roomates had friends at the U and you would have thought that they won the Superbowl. I think that I started hating losing to the Utes that year.

    1994 was the worst. Yorgensen hit from 55 and some Utah cheerleader planted the U flag at the fifty while some U fans stormed the field and tried to tear down the goal posts. I really hated losing to Utah then.

    Every year I know the Y will win...unfortunately half the time I have been wrong. We are going to win this week too, I can't wait for Saturday!

  • Yewt stat
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:37 p.m.

    I predict the score to be 23-5 BYU. NOT the score of the game, but actual championships in history. That is real, not made up. Nuff said Yewts.

  • REALLY?
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:39 p.m.

    5? That is real? 5? In Utah history? WOW.

  • Tradition
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:44 p.m.

    Nice. They won half their championships in the Urban "Era". What a joke the Yewt program is.

  • Brothers and Sisters
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:44 p.m.

    Come on-can't we all just get along --it is just a game. I was in Elders qorum this last week and we talked about loving our brothers, even if they are ute fans. We know that BYU is the Lord's sschool because everyone's tithing goes to support us. I am not sure how you can be a member in good standing and support the U. They stand for everything the church is against. But we still need to love them. Remember we are to preach to the sinners not to the flock.

  • The Honest Truth
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:54 p.m.

    Eight years ago I go to RES for the BYU/Utah game. In front of me was a 10-11 year old boy, all dressed in blue cheering his head off. A nice 34-27 Cougar win up on the Hill (Utes scored twice late to make it look meaningful, after the game was decided). One apparently drunken Ute student kept yelling at the young boy to shut-up and sit down...It went on for most of the first half. Across the aisle from me were all Ute fans. Good guys, respectable fans and one of them had had enough. He stood up, yelled at the Ute student that if he didn't sit down and shut up he was going to come down and beat the...well, you know how that went. Anyway the student sat down and not another word was said by him.

    The honest truth is that there are great fans on both sides of this rivalry and sick/disgusting fans on both sides of this rivalry. More of the latter on the Ute side... I will be at RES and in the middle of the Crimson Club, in blue, with CC friends in Red. How many in red will be nasty?

  • Proof
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:55 p.m.

    "Anonymous | 12:18 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    Harmon you have once again showed what a poor reporter you truly are. BYU shows just as much animosity and hatred as Utah shows BYU. You show us all how blind Cougar nation is, thinking how they are better than the rest of us. I'm amazed..."


    Just read these boards and you tell me who shows the most animosity. Harmon is absoulutely accurate. Ute nation is incredibly blind. Just look at the Ute trolls in here. This is a Cougar board believe it or not!!

  • re:Inside information
    Nov. 18, 2008 8:59 p.m.

    I can validate your claim:

    My aunt Harriet, knows the woman who knows a butcher, who's son-in-law knows Kevin Bacon, whose agent represents the Fox Executive's towell Boy and he has said that win or lose, Utah will be in the National Championship game, and win or lose that game, Utah will be crowned National Champions.

    After the NC game, the University of Utah football team will fly to Washington DC where they will all be sworn in as the new President of the United States, then on to New York, where the team will then become the United Nations.

    After taking over the world, they will fly to the planet Tihsllub where they will rule the Universe and Kyle will be crowned Miss Universe, and he plans to destroy all worlds except for the planet Earth, and all will be commanded to kneel for the Ute Football team, and all Utah fans will get a job at Fox Sports and ESPN, which will both become the University of Utah TV network, which will show the BYU-TCU in perpetuity, as that game is the greatest game Utah has ever played.

    This is fact. I have verfied it. I'm a UteFan.

  • Nathaniel
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:01 p.m.

    Utah has 26 conference championships in football. I have no idea where the number 5 came from. I guess if statistics don't help your argument, you just make up numbers.

  • Utes have more, here's why:
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:17 p.m.

    It's because of BYU fans like a high school classmate of mine, who after The Coogz lost a bowl game said in all earnestness: "the Lord just wanted to keep them humble."

    I can still hardly even fathom such a statement.

    May the Utes kick the Coogz' sanctimonious keisters every time in every sport forever and ever...

    Amen :-)

  • Former BYU Fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:23 p.m.

    I grew up attending BYU home games with my dad. After my mission however I became more aware of how people outside the church percieve us (Mormons). I became more troubled with how some BYU fans claim one set of principles but live another (at least on game day). True, there is no shortage of embarassing Ute fans, but they don't claim one thing and live another... like the BYU hoops fans that spew profanity toward my family at 9:00 Saturday night and can be found in Priesthood meeting at 9:00 Sunday morning.

  • Re: Nathaniel
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:27 p.m.

    It's actually 25 conference championships in football. I have no idea where the number 26 came from. Utah won 10 championships in the Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference, 5 in the Big Seven Conference, 5 in the Skyline Conference, 2 in the WAC, and 3 in the MWC. 10+5+5+2+3=25.

  • RE: Brothers and Sisters
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:30 p.m.

    The anti-LDS, pro-Ute faction that continues to post as if they were "self-righteous" BYU fans are PATHETIC.

    The problem with posting on the D-News is that you do not know who is posting. One can claim to be a BYU fan and then make comments that portray the image of self-righteousness. Or a BYU fan can post pretending to be a Utah fan in order to make Ute fans look ridiculous.

    There is no integrity with many of the posts here because there are no controls, But then, how do you make someone display integrity??? Not very easy.

    At least on the Salt Lake Tribune you have to use the same name each time you post, so other posters learn what side you are really on.

    Looking forward to a great game this Saturday, whichever team wins or loses.

  • re:Nathaniel
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:31 p.m.

    My bad, I meant 5 in the post civil war era, I guess those championships in horseshoes in the 1860's are part of your storied history. My apologies.

  • old news
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:36 p.m.

    I wish I had a nickel for the old-"cuss out my family on saturday, in priesthood on sunday morning" line. Former BYU fan, you obviously have some personal vendetta, like all bashers do. If, in fact, you really were a fan, we don't miss ya.

  • Come on
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:37 p.m.

    Nothing is said at the pulpit, in the stake calendar, or during high priests group that diminish or disparage the U of U.

    It's silly to think these urban legends are true.

    Ute fans use imagination to take up the space in their brains where the logic functions would normally take place.

  • How many did you attend?
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:41 p.m.

    How many of those 10 Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference championships did you see? How about those 5 championships in the Skyline Conference?

    And BYU fans are accused of living in the past??? At least I was there for the BYU national championship and will NEVER forget the excitment of the whole year!

    Those are good memories, but we all know that it is all about what you have done for me lately. So here's to a Cougar blowout on Saturday!

  • re: Nathaniel
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:42 p.m.

    If my parents named me Nathaniel, I think I'd be a Ute fan too. Right after i punched myself in the face.

  • I'm a BYU fan.
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:46 p.m.

    I watch BYU, I watch Utah, cheer for both, and would rather see a team from Utah win the conference over a team from Texas or Colorado.

    I cheer for BYU when they play Utah, refuse to make up third grade names by mispelling Utes, and will be at RES Saturday.

    I don't wear BYU gear, and I don't wear shirst with Hollister and Abercrombie and Fitch Emblazoned across the chest.

    I refuse to be a member of a cult, be it BYU football, or any college sports team.

    I'm there for the game, and hopes it all works out for both teams.

    I loved the NC game, I loved the Fiesta bowl. I wish Utah could win a NC, but I want BYU to win another.

    I go there expecting BYU to win, and will be happy if they do.

    Win or lose, I'll come home to a nice home, beautiful wife, beautiful daughters, won't talk about the game, because none of them care.

    I will go to church on Sunday, work on Monday, and get on with my life.

    Cultist's on both sides need to get a life.

  • Middle man
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:50 p.m.

    Ya so i'm a utah state fan (insert joke here) hahaha ya. being so ,however, has given me an outside look at how both sides act. Here is how i see it. Both sides are even. If a utah fan says something then a byu fan will come right back at them. it's not like BYU fans just sit back and say "choose the right." It's very heated for both sides and everybody makes a fool of themselves. it's what a rivalry is. If it were any other way it wouldnt be what it is. In my eyes this article is completely uncalled for. It's all good fun. And i love watching it unfold on game day.

  • re: 8:44 pm post
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:51 p.m.

    I don't have any problem with LDS fans who love the Utes or teams other than BYU. I do have problems with the Utah LDS fans who sits quietly by as a small percentage of their fans, clearly anti-Mormon, bash OUR religion - all in the name of sports.

    I understand the LDS-bashing by the anti-Mormon crowd. It is the silence of the active-LDS-Utah-fan who allows his religion to be trashed that I do not understand.

    So call me naive . .

  • Y v. U
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:54 p.m.

    Who U like?
    Y!
    Y?
    Y not Y? U like U?
    Do like U! Y U like Y?
    First U. Y U like U?
    U on first! Y on second. That's Y do like U, not Y.
    U Wrong!
    Y wrong?
    U on second. Y on first! That's Y do like Y, not U.
    U wait!
    Y wait?
    Saturday U see who on first and Y.

  • I'd Like to Know....
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:54 p.m.

    Why, if the U has a very large LDS number of students, is the U generally seen as "the heathen school"? Is it because many of the LDS UofU students are the "come to church once a month" kinds? I'm being serious here...

    And, let's get real, it is painfully obvious that a huge, HUGE chunk of Utah students literally revel in the "heathen" image.

    If both schools were started by the SAME LDS prophet (Brigham Young), why is that?

    Wouldn't it really be some Mormons vs. more Mormons?

    And I'll admit, I spent my freshman year at the U, graduated from Weber and I STILL pull for BYU.

    Go Cougars!!!!!

  • RE; I'm a BYU fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:55 p.m.

    Most intelligent post of the day.

    Thanks for putting it in perspective.

  • re: BYU fan
    Nov. 18, 2008 9:56 p.m.

    You spent an awful lot of time on that LONG post to tell us how you don't care. If you really didn't care, why did you waste all that time telling us? U make me want...uh I just threw up in my mouth.

  • Re: The Honest Truth
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:02 p.m.

    The answer to your question depends largely on your own behavior.

  • Dustin
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:05 p.m.

    Way to write a one-sided piece masquerading as an actual unbiased fact-reporting article. Maybe next time interview a Utah player to get their opinion. It may be the exact opposite of Janet Jorgensen's.

  • Fun rivalry?
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:06 p.m.

    I love this rivalry, but when it turns to name calling, religion bashing, and violence, I'd rather not see it happen. It's like Christmas shopping at Walmart on Black Friday--not worth it!

  • Evidence: BYU' arrogant attitude
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:11 p.m.

    1- This article

    2- BYU students who refer to their school as Harvard of the west

    3- Posters on this story who put down Ute fans for living at home while they attend school - like me (not all of us have the benefit of Daddy's $)

    4- Austin Collie's rationale for last year's victory "living right" as if BYU players lived right and the Utes didn't. Using Austin's logic I guess TCU is more righteous than BYU this year.

  • Homer
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    Dick Harmon fuels the fire behind heated rivalry.

  • Conference Championships
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:39 p.m.

    If you think the MWC and WAC conferences are obscure, try the Skyline, Big 7, and Rocky Mountain Conferences. Most people have never even heard of those conferences, let alone know which teams were in them.

    All but 5 of Utah's conference championship were won before 1964, in conferences that 99% of the current BYU and Utah fans couldn't name without having the list in front of them.

    The number of teams in those early conference varied, sometimes year to year, but many years Utah only had to win 3 or 4 games to win the championship. In 1944, Utah and Colorado were the only teams in the Big 7 conference; they played home and home and Utah finished 0-2 in the conference. Only once did Utah win 7 conference games in a season; 3 times they won 6. All of their other conference title were won with 5 or fewer wins.

    And how many times did winning those championships result in a bowl game or a national ranking for Utah?

    Twenty championships: one bowl game, 1939 Sun Bowl, vs New Mexico. Never even a sniff at being ranked.

    Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

  • Bob
    Nov. 18, 2008 10:55 p.m.

    Who owns this paper again?

  • not so fast my friends
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:20 p.m.

    It is good to see some rational people posting. No doubt there are boneheads on both sides. The main difference however, is the hate. Obviously there are posts by people who perpetuate the worst in this rivalry. I am Cougar fan and alumni. As a student I participated in a student exchange with the U for a day and I can tell you I have never been treated more rudely or disrespectfully than I was that day. There is a difference between good fun and nastiness/hate. Many of these posters sound just like the ones on the prop 8 sites. Enough with the holier than thou attitude espoused by U fans toward BYU. These are false traditions handed down from generation to generation. I heard that same propaganda from friends that went to the U and USU, but I never saw or heard that stuff (Lenny Gomes excluded - made me sick). I am not saying it does not happen, I just did not experience it. If it were happening I would not tolerate it. Some of the posts sound a little too "overdone" to be legit. Here's to a fun rivalry. Have some class! Go Cougs.

  • Hi
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:23 p.m.

    5 more days to go

  • RE:Rick Harmon is a Rick
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:54 p.m.

    Good for you! Stay off the boards as well! If you do not like what a paper publishes, don't read it and definitely don't subscribe. I doubt DN will miss you! I doubt you even had a subscription. Tiring to read all the comments about Dick's articles and "the bubble." What do Newties do the rest of the year when they don't have Harmon and BYU football to insult?
    And you wrote "Please give me a chance to write for Deseret News. I know my articles would be more biased." I think the word you were looking for is "unbiased", or did you mean you wanted to write even more biased material?
    Good article Dick!

  • ER
    Nov. 18, 2008 11:59 p.m.

    I think there is a disconnect going. Yes, Ute fans there is a heated rivaly and the outcome of the game DOES matter to both schools. You seem to think what Harmon is trying to say about what is felt by many BYU fans is that we don't really care. That is not his point nor most of the feeling of the BYU fans. It is that I want to talk trash about football, I want to debate who is better and what record is more....so on and so forth. What I don't want is for Ute fans to take shots at me and who I am off the field. I am a Grad of the U and have been embarrassed by many of the fan's behavior at the games. IMHO getting drunk, harrasing fans with foul language and throwing stuff at me does not make an enjoyable football game, nor does it engender respect on my part.

  • RE:BYU fans are so kind
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:02 a.m.

    Good fiction writing, the "14 yo daughter" bit almost made me cry... she went to a BYU home game and because she found no SDSU fans, she suddenly started to cheer for them??? Gee gosh! Why not send her to a Utah game to cheer for the visitors too... Give me a break! And people throw things at you in the mall because you wear a Utah hat??? Give me a break!

  • I'm a BYU fan
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:13 a.m.

    re:"re: BYU fan | 9:56 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
    You spent an awful lot of time on that LONG post to tell us how you don't care. If you really didn't care, why did you waste all that time telling us? U make me want...uh I just threw up in my mouth."

    Where in my post did you read that I don't care. I think I made it clear that I do care. Feel free to post back and show where it says I don't care.

    I just do not let it take over my life, I do not hate, I enjoy the games, like I have since the late 70's. I just don't want to join a cult movement to be able to enjoy college football.



    In the meantime, I hope you have a better day tomorrow, because it looks as if your life right now sucks.

  • Poor Picked On BYU
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:14 a.m.

    It sounds to me like BYU fans have a bit of a persecution complex. Poor me, Ute fans are so mean to me. I think I will cry in my cheerios. Get over yourselves, its a game. It should be a good game. Quit the whining and buck up little campers.

  • Huh?
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:35 a.m.

    I guess it depends on whether you're from Utah or not. I'm not, my roommates aren't, and to tell you the truth this game isn't any more important to us than the last one. I guess I can understand where the people from Utah are coming from. I'm sure it's no different from the USC-UCLA and Cal-Stanford rivalries that I grew up with. It just kind of seems like the BYU fans that are from Utah get a lot more into this than the ones that aren't. The only thing that bothers me is whenever I'm put in a situation where someone (from either side) brings this whole thing up and I have to try and explain why I don't care while they look at me in a state of disbelief (which then turns to anger).

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:49 a.m.

    re:"Poor Picked On BYU | 12:14 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
    It sounds to me like BYU fans have a bit of a persecution complex. Poor me, Ute fans are so mean to me. I think I will cry in my cheerios. Get over yourselves, its a game. It should be a good game. Quit the whining and buck up little campers."

    Have you missed all of the Ute whines on this board?

    Talk to your Ute brothers.

  • CougarKeith
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:28 a.m.

    The Reason "Ute Fans" get so fired up is a "revenge" feeling they have, almost as much as I can't stand Notre Dame, haven't liked them at all since Joe Montana was there, even then I didn't like to see them win. I have been a BYU fan since the 70's when I lived in Western NY. I wasn't even a church member then, I just liked to watch them, they became one of my favorite teams! Now having been a season ticket holder, I live and breath BYU Football! My driveway is a BYU basketball decorated foul line and 3 point line. I wear BYU something 360 days of the year probably. My SUV has BYU plate holders, window stickers on all 4 sides and even a "Chrome Cougar" affixed to it. Rivalry week it dons Cougar Flags on each passenger window. I have my BYU football helmet on top of the entertainment center, and other paraphanalia throughout the family room, den, and I have a BYU decorated bathroom, not to mention 3 BYU refridgerator magnets! I love BYU sports especially Football! We can still pull out a BCS birth if we can cream Utah this week!!! Go Blue!!!!!!!!

  • Utah fans
    Nov. 19, 2008 6:45 a.m.

    Utah fans are nuts. I have one in my neighborhood who has a large U on his rooftop and tells everyone how much he hates / loathes BYU. He tries to bring it up at every opportunity and comes off as a huge dope. He doesn't seem to realize how much he alienates other people... even those who are just neutral. He really does himself a disservice by acting the way he does. His children act the same and then have problems at school being picked on etc. Just enjoy the game and have a great time. Don't be a nut about it. Please.

  • RE: UTAH FANS
    Nov. 19, 2008 7:36 a.m.

    Don't be jellous just because that guy has a good reason to run his mouth. Utah is 11-0 and soon to be 12-0. So stop whyning and let me guess you have a big Y on your house. do you remember this UTAH 13 TCU 10. and BYU 7 TCU 32
    GO UTES!!!!!!!!

  • THE GAME
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:22 a.m.

    The question was asked if "anyone thought BYU would win vs Utah"? Actually,the problem for the Utes is that everyone (almost any rational thinking person) expects them to win. That is the problem for the Utes. They're expected to win and win easily. The pressure to win when you're an underdog or in a pick'em game with little to gain or lose is fun. The utes; however, have everything to lose (BCS to Poinsettia Bowl) if they don't win. Doubt this game presents much "fun" for them. It will be interesting to see if the Utes can overcome the expectations game.

  • Nathaniel
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:39 a.m.

    I guess I did not realize that conference championships don't count if Deseret News readers have not watched them all. Nonetheless, Utah has 26 of them:
    1912, 1919, 1922, 1926, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932, 1933, 1938, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1947, 1948, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1957, 1964, 1995, 1999, 2003, 2004, and
    2008(1 game left to play to see if it will be outright or a shared championship)

    The seventies and eighties were pretty bad, but otherwise Utah has a long history of being a contender.

  • Shoulda been: TCU 16 UTAH 13
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    For Ute fans who think that the results against common opponent TCU are the trump card and bottom line, please think back on the two barely missed field goals by TCU.

    Rather than thumping their chests, the Utes should be humbly acknowledging the vagaries of good luck.

  • RE: Yewt stat
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    I did not know we had 5 conference championships? That's because I really don't care just like I don't care if the Jazz win the division. Its about BCS 2-0 on Saturday not the Vegas bowl. The TDS can have the Vegas bowl.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:00 a.m.

    re:THE GAME | 8:22 a.m.

    The Vegas line is Utah by 6 1/2.

    Not everyone expects the Utes to win.

    re:RE: UTAH FANS | 7:36 a.m. "Don't be jellous just because that guy has a good reason to run his mouth. Utah is 11-0 and soon to be 12-0."

    Where do these Utah fans get their arrogance, their sense of "self entitlement"? I'll give you that Utah is good. BYU is good also. I just hope RES doesn't have that same sweet sound of silence when the clock reads 00:00 like the last time BYU played there.

  • RE: Why hate?
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    Why not!! I hated the TDS ever since I was a kid and hate them even more after I graduated from the U.

    "I hope Utah represents BYU well in a BCS game."

    What?!? Don't worry Utah will represent UTAH just like we represented UTAH in 2004.

  • RE: The best ever.
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:21 a.m.

    Thank you Cleo for those predictions for the next 17 years. Here's my predction BCS Utes 2 TDS 0 after Sat.

    Now I can't speak for all Utes but I was at the BCS game in 2004 nothing and I mean nothing else compares unless its the national title.

    Since, the odds of a non-BCS team winning a national championship are as a black man being bishop pre-1970s, I will take the 2004 win over Vegas bowl any day.

  • re..Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:30 a.m.

    I was at that game two years ago, and there wasn't complete silence. There was a team of crazed Cougars storming the field in all directions, including a coach who portrays himself as a robot with no emotion. Also a group of BYU fans running onto the field to celebrate. But wait, according to the Cougar fans on this blog Utah fans and players take this rivalry more seriously than their Cougs do right? Not too mention last year as crazed Cougar fans stormed LES field to carry Brian Keil off on their shoulders, I was there also.

    What's the truth here Cougs? Do you really cherish the rivaly with Utah, hate their fans and players, and are "Fully Invested" with complete "Position Mastery" into this rivaly? Or do these games really just mean another game for you as Dick "Cougar Club Lifer" Harmon is saying? I think recent actions from your team and fans, including on this blog, have completely discredited Mr. Harmon and his attempts to downplay Saturday's matchup. Could that be a twisted plot by him to lessen the pain of defeat upcoming!!

  • RE: Conference Championships
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:37 a.m.

    If you want to compare apples to apples then then why are you comparing BYUs national title with Utah's BCS 2004?

    When was the last time a national champion beat a 6-4 team for the title? If all things equal my prediction the 84-Y does not make the BCS title game

    I do you dem apples.

  • Johnny Utah
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:42 a.m.

    re: Shoulda been: TCU 16 UTAH 13 | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

    >>Rather than thumping their chests, the Utes should be humbly acknowledging the vagaries of good luck.

  • Really there
    Nov. 19, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    "re..Anonymous | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
    I was at that game two years ago, and there wasn't complete silence. There was a team of crazed Cougars storming the field in all directions, including a coach who portrays himself as a robot with no emotion. Also a group of BYU fans running onto the field to celebrate."

    Don't pretend you were there when you weren't.

    There was a slice of BYU fans in the SW visitors seats that were screaming, but the sound was quickly muted by the blasting quiet of the Utah fans.

    They did not storm the field.

    The Ute fandom was SILENT. Looking opening their mouths as if to speak, but no sound coming out, except the loaded Ute fan next to me, red sweatshirt, cowboy boot, mullet and all who about every two minutes would yell out "You beter be careful what you wish for!!!" (yep, didn't make sense there either). Otherwise, nothing, just a blank stare and a glazed look.

    I was there (not the Ute pretend there). I know what it was like. Imagine all these boards with silly Ute posts just disappearing. It was like that.

  • re..Really There?
    Nov. 19, 2008 10:48 a.m.

    I believe you're mistaken. I was speaking of the game at RES, not the version you have recreated on your NCAA 2007 Playstation 2 consule.

    The argument of your post has been conceeded, the Utah fans were stunned and disappointed, almost as much as when a back up QB named Ratliff scorched the Cougsand the mighty Jon Beck for 41 points at LES in his first career start, but I regress.

    The point being brought to attention in the article is that to your clan this game means little more than last weeks game vs. Air Force, yet means the world to the Utes. If you'll kindly grab a copy of the Harline catch from You Tube you can watch the glee and histeria as your Cougs STORM the field after winning a game that supposedly means little to them. Then again in 2007 as your crowd STORMS the field to carry off Brian Keil.

    The silly posts on this board are from disillusioned Cougar fans who cannot acknowledge their reality. Come Saturday Utah will have 2 BCS trips, BYU 4 Vegas Bowl trips. Nuff said.

  • Nope, really there
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:08 a.m.

    "I believe you're mistaken. I was speaking of the game at RES, not the version you have recreated on your NCAA 2007 Playstation 2 consule."

    Sorry, no playstation (I have a life).

    Reality is what it is.

  • tinticfarm
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:17 a.m.

    mute fans are the most foul mouthed, cheap wine drinkers in the world. I hope the temp. at game time is below freezing so I don't have to smell the body odor of the mute fans.

  • Well said
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:52 a.m.

    Great, we finally agree. Reality is what it is. 12-0 equals "True Quest For Perfection Attained", 10-2 equals Vegas Bowl, again.

  • Cougar Student but Ute Supporter
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:53 a.m.

    Are you serious? 400 comments on this silly topic?

  • Utah Man
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:56 a.m.

    I really don't care if BYU doesn't care as much about this game. We care, and that is why we will be at the Fiesta Bowl (or Sugar Bowl) and you will be playing in Vegas, yet again.

    The Cougars are going DOWN on Saturday. Have fun in our house where you don't have to sneak in a real Diet Coke. Enjoy.

    GO UTES!

    The Lord is a Utah fan this year! The Church is true and so is the U! Down with BYU!

  • hmmmmmm?
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:44 p.m.

    "Well said | 11:52 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
    Great, we finally agree. Reality is what it is. 12-0 equals "True Quest For Perfection Attained", 10-2 equals Vegas Bowl, again."

    12-0, 10-2 is reality?

    Ute logic at work.

    Are the Utes 12-0 next year also?

    Why not 13-0 with a NC, or even 14-0, after Utah beats the Superbowl champion and becomes King Overlords of the Universe?

    Has Utah ever lost a game in the Utah Man, sir's, minds?



  • re: Thanks Dick....@ 1:15
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    I find it hilarious that a Ute called Dick a poor writer then follow it up with this eloquent example of Ute writing skills.
    "I for one are soooooo glad you are pro byu and anti Utah."

    I for one are sooooo.....? I for one AM sooooo glad Dick Harmon knows how to write.

  • re:Utah Man
    Nov. 19, 2008 12:47 p.m.

    "The Lord is a Utah fan this year! The Church is true and so is the U! Down with BYU!"

    Wow, imagine a BYU fan saying the same thing.

  • RPJ
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:06 p.m.

    Intesting how many have reacted to Harmon's article. A lot sounds like gnashing of teeth. I would have to agree with his comments about the feelings of the U vs. the Y.

    I received a BS degree from the U of U. and didn't know much about the "Y", except the vitriol I heard from students, most of whom were from Utah and lived with their parents.

    I then attended the Y and received a PhD. While there I actually heard little about the U, except when we played them in football or basketball. But, for the most part, it was normal rivalry sort of stuff. There was no vitriol or venom.

    After 30 years, I have just moved back to Utah. I am amazed at the real bitterness that seems to exist among U fans. I can't figure it out. Maybe most still live with their parents!

    P.S. To those of you who have posted here who are over 9 years old and have IQs above single digit: Thanks. To the rest of you ... why not read a book, take a class, get a life?

  • Quest for perfection
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:17 p.m.

    HAHAHAHAHAH.....that must still just sting all you zoobies who bought into it, the least they could've done would've been to put that tag on a good Cougar team instead of one that was destined to lose 2 or 3 games. Quest T-shirts available NOW IN RED! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

  • re..hmmmmm?
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:23 p.m.

    Sorry, but what exactly don't you understand? Not sure I can dumb it down any further, but I'll give it a try.

    2008 Football Records, 11-23-2008

    Utah 12-0, after defeating the mighty Cougars. Headed for the Sugar bowl to play current #1 Alabama and earn more money for one game than BYU has earned in every bowl game in their history combined. Don't worry, we always look after our little brothers down south and will share some of that, just like in 04.

    BYU 10-2, after losing at RES. Headed for the Vegas Bowl versus a very average Pac-10 team, but at least it should be a win. "Quest" denied, dreams crushed, delusional fans back in Vegas where the "Quest" began last year. I'd say start a new "Quest" for 2009 but that potential game versus OK sort of squashed that didn't it!

  • Road Apples
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:26 p.m.

    A BCS bid is not a national championship!

    Every college fan, with the exception of a few Utah homers, knows that.

    The calibre of teams that BYU competed against in 1984 are the same calibre teams that Utah competed against in 2004.

    1984 Final AP Top 10
    1 BYU
    2 Washington
    3 Florida
    4 Nebraska
    5 Boston College
    6 Oklahoma
    7 Oklahoma State
    8 SMU
    9 UCLA
    10 USC

    2004 Final AP Top 10
    1 USC
    2 Auburn
    3 Oklahoma
    4 Utah
    5 Texas
    6 Louisville
    7 Georgia
    8 Iowa
    9 California
    10 Virginia Tech

    The same can't be said of the teams Utah faced when it won most of its conference championships from 1900 to 1962, and the teams BYU and Utah faced in the WAC and MWC conferences, when BYU won all of its conference championships.



  • CROWTONLOVER
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:53 p.m.

    If BYU fans think that there will be anything close to what they call "fair officiating" in this game, they are sorely mistaken. The Conference wants their BCS money and Utah is their meal ticket. BYU has no chance at making it into a BCS game. The blowout at TCU, along with the lackluster performance against a winless washington team, was enough to commit post season suicide. I trust the MWC officals will make sure that throwing millions of dollars away in favor of a BYU will not happen. If the situation was reversed and BYU had a chance to go to a BCS game, the officals would treat them the same way.

  • RMC vs WAC
    Nov. 19, 2008 1:56 p.m.

    Utah's first conference championship:
    1912 Rocky Mountain Conference - 5-1-1, 4-1
    1 of 5 conference games on the road
    *Wyoming
    *Denver
    at *Colorado Mines
    Montana
    at Colorado
    *Colorado College
    *Utah State

    BYU's first conference championship:
    1965 Western Athletic Conference - 6-4, 4-1
    4 of 5 conference games on the road
    at *Arizona St.
    Kansas St.
    at Oregon
    San Jose St.
    at *Wyoming
    at Utah St.
    *Utah (H)
    Colorado St.
    at *Arizona
    at *New Mexico

    Nobody could reasonably argue that Arizona and Arizona State weren't considerably more difficult opponents than Denver and Colorado Mines.

  • Carnack the Great
    Nov. 19, 2008 2:50 p.m.

    "re..hmmmmm? | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
    Sorry, but what exactly don't you understand? Not sure I can dumb it down any further, but I'll give it a try.

    2008 Football Records, 11-23-2008

    Utah 12-0, after defeating the mighty Cougars."

    Try dumbing it down for me just a step further.

    How do you know who wins the game this Saturday?

    Teach me, master of the unknown.

  • Utah
    Nov. 19, 2008 3:18 p.m.

    I hear the Ute's have been attending thier meetings and such so maybe some magic will happen in thier favor this year?

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 3:36 p.m.

    What all you BYU fans need to stop doing is running your big mouths and let the players do the talking. I'm tired of all this we're going to win and all this stuff. We need to all remember this UTAH beat TCU and BYU didn't so JUST STOP RUNNING YOUR MOUTHS. oh and right on to the guy with the U on his roof.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    What all you Utah fans need to stop doing is running your big mouths and let the players do the talking. I'm tired of all this we're going to win and all this stuff. We need to all remember this BYU beat UNM, and Utah pulled by in a squeaker. No phantom late PI flag on a way underthrown ball, and going for the extra points against OSU, or the two missed 30 yd FGs by a freshman TCU kicker and Utah is 8-3 so JUST STOP RUNNING YOUR MOUTHS. oh and right on to the guy with the Y on his roof.

    How funny you will all look after the game, red sweatshirts that smell like mothballs and cheap tequilla, as you open your mouths, and no sound come out. Remember, your mommies have all of your rooms all decorated in red with a big U on your beds so you can have a nice rest.

    Getting your heart torn out by your rivals is going to be tough. Especially after all of your lame trash talk. It will be sweet at 00:00 to hear the cougar fight song played.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 19, 2008 5:03 p.m.

    jan obviously needs a boy name. his statements are false. over the last 20 years its 10-10... he calls that looking up?? and you could never tell that mr harmon is biased... oh wait.

  • davidutefan
    Nov. 19, 2008 5:38 p.m.

    You kewg fans can talk about the hate filled Ute fans all you want to but, I've been a season ticket holder at Utah for 14 years. During that time, I've been given the finger and called names by TDS fans at RES. I've watched TDS players climb into the stands and try to fight ute fans at RES, and I've seen a TDS fan at LES jump out of the crowd and tackle a ute cheerleader for running with a ute flag(and subsequently having the crap beat out of him). Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I hate the TDS fans because they are obnoxious. If it weren't for them, I probably would have no more animosity for the team than any other. I don't like any team but my own. TDS fans just make it easy to hate their team.

  • Re: David
    Nov. 19, 2008 7:40 p.m.

    I have attended most games in LES and have never seen anything like what you have described. Not one time! I think you must be hallucinating. I can tell you if any person did the things you said happened, they would be arrested or at least ushered out of the staduim and if a student, they would be diciplined. Next time you attend a game, try going sober, please!

  • and again ute fans...
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:34 p.m.

    BYU 52 utah 17

  • mongo
    Nov. 19, 2008 8:56 p.m.

    Zoobs are the worst fans. When I was 8 years old attending a game at the former cougar stadium I had tomatoe sandwiches and tortillas thrown at me for cheering for Oregon.

  • Re: Re David
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:09 p.m.

    Yes, this happened. It was about 9 or 10 years ago. The Utah cheerleader was running with the flag and a BYU fan jumped out of the stands and tackled him. The best and most pathetic part about it was that the BYU President blamed the situation on the fact that the Utah fan had a flag and somehow egged the fan on...?

    Google it buddy, happened in 1999.

  • BSU 57 utah 7
    Nov. 19, 2008 9:10 p.m.

    nuff said, end of story.

  • Jared
    Nov. 19, 2008 10:15 p.m.

    Brian Johnson better bring his A game...or this one coudl be a disaster. If he plays like he has at the end of almost every game, Utah could take it. If he plays how he has played early in games, it could be over in a hurry. GO COUGARS!

  • Teej
    Nov. 19, 2008 10:23 p.m.

    Weird. Pressure, media attention, player and fan chatter during a week leading up to a huge and hotly contested rivalry game?!?!

    I am sure that its all hugs and high fives leading up to Michigan vs. Ohio State or Notre Dame vs. USC. Come on Dick and Jan! Football is a man's game. Man up. Deal with the chatter.

  • Cougar Realist
    Nov. 19, 2008 11:10 p.m.

    Given that TCU thumped BYU and outplayed Utah, only to lose, the case can be made that the Horned Frogs are really the best team in the MWC this year.

    But TCU was manhandled by Okalahoma, you say. Anyone care to venture a guess how either the Utes or the Cougars would have done against the Sooners.

  • 3-Peat
    Nov. 20, 2008 6:05 a.m.

    Look guy's, Dick's just calling it how he sees it so give the dude a break. I am a BYU fan and I'm LDS but I dont think I'm better than anyone...I just think the Cougs are better than the Utes. Is that so bad? Oh, and if you think there was no crap talk after Utah won a few years back your out to lunch! The only thing that shut that down was the back to back Holy War wins by BYU. Oh and to the guys comment above, we have more passion.

  • To Road Apples
    Nov. 20, 2008 10:19 a.m.

    I appreciate you pointing this out. It is what I have always argued, too. In 2004, Utah did exactly what BYU did in 1984, went undefeated. BYU was just fortunate enough that the BCS didn't exist in 1984. hanks for proving there are BYU fans with brains.

  • Apples To Apples
    Nov. 20, 2008 12:02 p.m.

    "When was the last time a national champion beat a 6-4 team for the title? If all things equal my prediction the 84-Y does not make the BCS title game"

    1984 when BYU beat a 6-6 Michigan Team. So let's not act like Michigan and Pitt are any different

  • Pompous
    Nov. 20, 2008 12:18 p.m.

    What a pompous story...BYU gets accused of carrying the "holier than thou" attitude because of comments and stories like this one.

    I understand that money talks and that the majority of your readers are cougar fans, but when you are so ignorantly one sided it amazes the few people that aren't cougar fans and causes them to never read your stories again. At least try not to look so obviously one sided, leave that to the opinion section.

  • Mr Wonderful
    Nov. 20, 2008 2:51 p.m.

    What at Gasbag! It's propaganda stories like this and BYU fans that make everyone hate you, not just Ute fans. You make it easy to hate you. I remember attending several games in Provo and BYU fans were uglier, nastier, foul mouthed as one could imagine. Do you remember the BYU fan who attacked the Utah cheerleader in Provo and got his face smashed in. The AD at BYU blamed Utah for the BYU fan attacking. BYU fans give Mormons a bad name!

  • Provo girl
    Nov. 20, 2008 3:26 p.m.

    I'm a Cougar who married a Utah man, and for 30 years I've attended Utah games with season tickets. Every year that BYU came to play Utah, it was the same....drinking, offensive and vulgar language and over the top hatred toward the LDS and BYU's program. So many Ute fans are out of control drunks.....writing offensive language on their buses, clothing or whatever. Utah's coach is a class act and a friend of the family, but some of the fans are out of control and ruin it for the rest of us in the stadium. Utah needs to come up with a better way to keep alcohol out of the stadium, and civility and clean language in the fans! BYU fans my be obnoxious, but at least they're not drunk and the language isn't dirty! Go Cougars! (sorry honey...)

  • UteswilldestroytheY
    Nov. 20, 2008 3:29 p.m.

    Perhaps it's all the lame rerun games of yesteryear that show up all over the TV during the year focusing on BYU's glory daize that fuel the animosity torwards the Y. Plus their general arrogance of being spiritual elitists down there. I hope they get their A#$ kicked by the U.

  • Re:Albuquerque
    Nov. 20, 2008 3:30 p.m.

    Wow! So you think moving from Albuquerque to Provo, Utah is a venture! LOL And just because you had a spanish class with some kid from Russia doesn't make you cultured. Get a perspective pal!

  • Knight
    Nov. 20, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    So I get tickets to the 3-0 game at Y-ner stadium from a friend of mine who is a member of the Y-ner club. My 9 yr old son and I all decked out in Utah Red find our seats about 30 rows up and the 40 yard line we sit next to another Utah fan but everybody else are of course all Y-ners and immediatly the Y-ing began and it went on and on. Now they may have been calling me a fetching fetcher but the meaning is the same. We traded barbs for about 3 quarters then when the main Y-ner could not get the better of me he began in on my 9 year old son asking if I was his real Dad, if I was his big brother because his Dad was in jail, and if he was the first surviving abortion. He got his wish because we went to sit in the high corner of the stadium which was empty (I thought Y-ner stadium was always full) before I did go to jail for beating this guy senseless. You cannot tell me they are pure or the rivalry does not mean much to them.

  • Just a thought
    Nov. 20, 2008 8:06 p.m.

    Thankfully, I've been out of state all week and missed out on most of the blather from both counties. (Since I have to return tomorrow, I checked in-sort of like an innoculation with the strain.) For some reason this rivaly seems more childish on both sides.

    One thing I like is that once the U started to load their team up with returned LDS missionaries, like BYU, their record improved markedly--especially against BYU. That must be a real bitter-sweet thought for the many loyal U fans who hate the LDS church--and use this game as an excuse to give voice to their religious hatred....

    (For those surprised to learn, or say "ah hah" when they find evidence, that Harmon has a blue bias, well, sorry, I can't help you out other than to tell you to stay out of the Cash cab-you won't do well. They don't ask questions where the answer is obvious to everyone.) I hope this is a high scoring game--more fun to watch.

  • Lamont Cranston
    Nov. 20, 2008 9:09 p.m.

    re: Provo girl | 3:26 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

    I have been to Football & basketball games at both schools. Quite frankly, Fans @ the Marriott Center are the worst of all 4 venues.

    When in Jr High & HS, I attended a numerous games @ LES (in the S End Zone no less) which influenced my decision where to attend college. Needless to say, I spent 4 years dodging bikers around the Olpin Union Bldg. Popcorn popping... and Rise & Shout are tied for 2nd of my all time favorite songs... everything else (Even Country) is tied for 1st.

    Provo Girl; I dare you to go into your Husbands Priesthood meeting in say February and see if you can differentiate between Red & Blue. I'll bet ya you can't.

    Simply put, There are fools clad in both red & blue. Its all a matter of perception & what you will not tolerate.

  • To: Knight
    Nov. 21, 2008 7:47 a.m.

    Yea you're right. There are a dozen or so byu fans who make the other 60,000 plus look bad unlike the 30,000 Utah fans who make the dozen or so good ute fans look bad.

  • BYU/Utah
    Nov. 21, 2008 8:26 a.m.

    Hey, alot of the BYU people are from out of state and they really do not care in general about the U of U except for when the U has a good football team, like this year and some other years in the past when they also had a great football team. There is more to the hatred from the U of U than they are willing to admit. BYU is another world different from any other place and the U cannot relate with it. BYU has a certain formality that appears as self-righteous to outsiders, but Utah has a casualness that appears unimpressive to outsiders. It's kind of like you have to have been in each world to understand it and not judge it.

  • tangentially ranting
    Nov. 21, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    The only rivalry that can equal the so called holy war in the fact few people care about is Stanford/Cal.

    It'd be one of these Bay area schools that is the Harvard of the West not the Y as some repressed people here in Zion erroneously believe.

  • Ri-Dick-ulous
    Nov. 21, 2008 1:13 p.m.

    Can someone get this guy a tissue?

    The best part about this article trying to paint BYU fans as non-haters, is all the hateful comments that their fans have posted after it :)

    As a Utah fan living in Provo, I've seen way more "hate" then you could handle Dick, ever since BYU took that fateful trip to Texas. Somehow every coug fan I know made that game about Utah.

    Passion? Animosity? You think these don't exist in both valleys?

    It's a rivalry Dick. That's what makes it so dang fun. Sometimes it gets taken a little to far, like when a coug fan jumps the fence to attack a Ute cheerleader maybe ;) but it goes both ways, and smart football fans on both sides know this.

  • decisions
    Nov. 21, 2008 7:34 p.m.

    I remember being in the middle of deciding what school I would be attending when I went to a BYU/UTAH game at the Y a few years ago. A BYU fan (one of those fans that thinks this is just another game and hates the hype) came out and tried to jump one of the U cheerleaders waving a flag. The cheerleader reacted by putting the man in question on the ground with his fist repeatedly.

    I looked around (I was in the Y section thinking that I might go there) at about 65,000 fans with their eyes glazed over in shame. The Y players stopped playing and lost after the beat down. I also made my decision.

  • Re: Texas BYU fan
    Nov. 21, 2008 11:16 p.m.

    that was bull, anyone knows that. They didn't play a team with a winning record that year.

    Weak sauce. Keep living in the past

  • Ref: Decions
    Nov. 22, 2008 7:04 a.m.

    And now with your Ute degree your favorite question is: "Would you like fries with that?"

  • To "Ref: Decions"
    Nov. 22, 2008 11:01 a.m.

    Haha dude I go to BYU, but I'm betting that guy with the degree from Utah at least knows how to spell the word "decisions."

  • Ref: decsions
    Nov. 22, 2008 11:23 a.m.

    Actually I employ a bunch of BYU clones like you. You guys are great at sticking your nose to the grindstone and looking good, just not very creative.

    I think you should say a little prayer in your heart every time you send one of your reports as a .pdf (10 to 1 you are an accountant or some low level clerk) thanking the man from Utah that created it.

    After that, you might say another one, every time you use Photoshop, making the ultimate coug: knee socks of Robbie Bosco, body of steve young, arm of Ty Detmer and headband of Jimmy Mac. or some trite thing like that.

  • MGL
    Nov. 22, 2008 11:48 a.m.

    who cares! go Texas Tech!

  • Uuuugh...
    Nov. 22, 2008 12:18 p.m.

    I stick up for him, and then he misspells it 20 minutes later...

  • Mark My Words
    Nov. 22, 2008 1:17 p.m.

    BYU is going to pull off the "upset." Sorry to ruin your season.

  • What is your Word now..
    Nov. 22, 2008 8:22 p.m.

    48-24.. did you mean BYU fans would be upset at the end of the game?