Homeowner blames a 'small-minded individual' for blaze
You mean this can go two ways? And naturally this is probably national news that
proves Mormons are bigoted homophobes and violent too! Couldn't
possibly be someone who is just tired of the bigoted anti church hateful
rantings of the gay community..now way.
You're right. This totally justifies all the hate and bigotry thrown at the LDS
As a beer drinker, I'd like a copy of that sign.
Sorry to say that there is no proof for anyone to claim a Mormon did this. I
understand why ONE would do this...but I also understand why someone against the
LDS Church would too. Also, be careful using the word bigot.
Anyone who likes the LA Lakers watch out because Bull fans are going to come
picket in front of your home until you change your mind.Anyone who
prefers Coke as opposed to Pepsi watch out because Pepsi lovers are going to
hunt you down and bug you because they think pepsi is better.Anyone
who likes grape jelly not peach be prepared to have a ton of peach lovers
throwing peaches at you and call you names because apparently no on can have
differences in believes in the country. People donated money to
support prop 8. Lots of different people from all walks of life. It was voted
on. It passed....
There is very little that is clear in this article. Whoever burned the
signs clearly committed an act that should not be tolerated. I wish
church members had more patence, more love for their enemies, and lived up to
Jesus' admonition to pray for them that despitefully use us more. Of
corse, there is no evidence that the person who started the fire was a member of
Because taste in sports team, soft drinks, and spreadable sandwich condiments is
completely analogous to who you're born attracted to.Do you people
ever think before you post?
America,land of the free? hmmm only for some people is the way it tends to be,
if you follow all the rules and do as you are told
Thank you hmmm. You make a really good point. By the way it was not the mormon
church that started all of this. It was the catholic church and christians
Who cares who started what????I'm sick and tired of this soap opera. Every
person has the right to express their ideas and preferences period! Stop
attacking others for their beliefs and whatever or whoever they voted for...
let's move on with life now.
who cares, its just a burned sign. And if LDS people were the cause they need to
wise up. Acts like this just give anti-pop 8 people more publicity then they
The signs should not have been burned and whoever did it, LDS or not, should be
ashamed. The people who made the signs have the right to make their voices heard
as well. There have been stupid actions performed by only a few on each side of
the issue and, unfortunately, it's smearing the images of both sides. But I
agree. The public wanted it put to a vote.... they got it. Gay marriage is
banned in California. Move on.
Hate is toxic. You think the LDS Church would have learned that by now. The
Prop. 8 battle is going to haunt the Church for years to come.
Everyone should agree that it's wrong to torch people's signs on their own
property, regardless of what the signs say. But then again, a lot of
things that should be obvious apparently aren't--like the irony in gay rights
people accusing Mormons of hatred and bigotry as they threaten our tax-exempt
status and shut down our temples. Or the difference between 19th-century Mormons
polygamists wanting to be left alone and gays wanting official governmental
endorsement of their unions. Or the blatant bias in how the major news networks
are reporting this. How many of the protestors really try to understand
the Mormon viewpoint? How many of them have gone to the LDS Newsroom website and
read the interview with Elders Oaks and Wickman?
I bet they burned it themselves just to get press coverage. It worked.
@HoaxKnowing the tenants there, I can assure you it was not their
I find it so sad that some would blame the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day
Saints for what the people voted on. Marriage between a man and a woman is
ordained by God. It is just that simple. Clearly all this anger and hatefulness
is not the way to go about a disagreement with a law and comes from a source
that is not of God.
News flash!Disagreement does not equal hate. I've had disagreements with
my wife but I've never stopped loving her and I've certainly never hated her.How sad it must be to see the world through a lens where anyone that
disagrees with you is interpreted as hateful. What a confused and pitiable
world view that is.
If it was an LDS person or persons who did this, shame on them. If it was not
an LDS person, shame on them. If it was someone on the No on 8 side, shame on
them.The pro 8 signs in California have pretty much vanished from
sight now, and the no on 8 signs live on. Wonder where all the yes on 8 stolen
and defaced signs ended up, besides the ones I constantly saw crumpled up in
gutters? One trio of teenagers was caught in the act with 53 stolen yes signs
in their car on one night. Oh, by the way, if the person(s) go on
the lawn to burn signs, steal them, or deface them - an additional charge of
trespassing on private property is applicable.
Hope the Salt Lake police remember to add trespassing to the charges if they
ever find these people. Also, what about malicious mischief, or intent to
incite a riot or something. There should be plenty of good stuff to charge them
with. Don't forget to watch the protesters too, if they set foot on private
property - get em!By the way, I voted yes on 8, but couldn't afford
to donate. However, two wrongs will never make a right. I urge all who believe
in the yes vote to simmer down and let the out-of-control element in the
protests shoot themselves in the foot.I am proud of my membership in
the Church. It means a lot to me. I also became a citizen two presidential
campaigns ago, and exercised my right to vote every time an election was held,
and have been called to jury duty FOUR times in that time. I should not have to
feel frightened because of the vote I cast, or simply because I am a member of
A staged events to make LDS look bad. The beers should be a clue. Not only
stupid but just plain tasteless. LDS memebers would never be involved in this
action. Get over yourselves antis.
My 80 year old mother's "Yes to Prop 102" sign in Arizona was ripped and thrown
all over her yard 4 times before the election. She just kept taping it back
together and putting it back in her yard.
Bullies. They are grown up bullies. If you cross them, they will beat you up.
So you'd better just agree with them now, and give up your lunch money, and save
yourself a beating. Don't ever try to be yourself with your own opinions,
because they will call you names and give you a hard time, the tolerant, loving
The pest comment is from the 6:07 commentator. Why have there not been
articles about all the vandalism and detruction of Yes on 8 and Yes on 102 and
similar signs? I guess it is because the newspaper would turn into a sign
vandalism register if that was the case. This sign burning is news because
destruction of the antis signs are so rare. However, it is not even clear
who put up the sign that burned , let alone who burned it.
Re:Matthew,News FlashThis specific disagreement has ended up in a
hateful and angry manner. and that was the only thing I was referring
to.Disagreement should be only that a disagreement, but when you factor in anger
and hate you see the the awful lengths people will go to. I think you took my
comment(on one incident) way out of context, and have assumed my outlook on the
world is pitiful.
Again this was not a staged event, and what does the fact that there are beer
bottles or funny stickers on their door have to do with this hate crime. I
find it shameful for the deseret new to try to assassinate the character of the
people that live there, who are friends of mine and very good people. Sad
to think that one of the people that live in that house is ex-military as well,
poor guy put his live on the line for our right to the freedom of speech just to
have someone burn it in his front yard. This was a Shameful act and even
more shameful for the commenters who have called it a hoax and went about their
day with their blinders firmly attached.
Hoax. Antis trying to make us look bad. Shameful. Beer in the vicinity should
tell you lds are not involved. Antis and non-members have no standards. You made
yourselves look bad with this one.
The beer bottles were remains from a party from the weekend that didn't get
cleaned up. Think it's a hoax all you want; Feel free to talk to the people
dropping off their kids at the school nearby that witnessed it.
I am actually more disappointed in those who burned those signs, I would compare
it to bombing abortion clinics. I am totally against gay marriage and find the
behavior of the gay population very hateful and selfish. But I also find
retaliation just as bad, what does that accomplish, but showing weakness to a
weak group. Whoever did this needs to grow up.
Why isn't all the anti-LDS stuff being called hate crimes? Like the death
threats on the internet against Mormons, etc. If half of this protesting was
being done to the gay community, or another "squeaky-wheel" group, the jails
couldn't hold all the people the police would be bringing in!
How is this even newsworthy? We have a crushing economy, wars on 2 fronts, a
newly elected president and the Des News is printing a story about a home made
sign that was lit a blaze. The fire crew that was passing by didn't see anybody
close to the scene. It's not like this thing could flame on for hours like a
forest fire. Its duration would be seconds at best. Ironically the hammer was
left in the front yard and nobody answered the door?? It doesn't take Sherlock
Holmes, not even Larry Holmes, to tell you that the perpetrator lives at the
house, didn't answer the door, and is trying to frame his LDS neighbors. Please
print something news worthy. I am begging you. PLEASE
Why is this a religious issue. I'm not religious at all but I can still figure
out that gay marriage is wrong for society.
These antis should have to to pay for the firemans time let alone shame they
tries to put on LDS. This is sad.
It sounds like, in your opinion, Christians and Catholics are different than
Mormons. And I thought Mormons claimed to be Christen... not by their actions
in California and not by your own statement as a Mormon. Your church cannot
have it both ways.
To"Another Comment" Thank you for your comments!I am proud to be an
LDS and a faithful support of my Leaders. As a naturalized citizen of this
great nation, I am proud of that too! It is heart broken to watch the Church
been attacked but we will prevail.
There are a lot of possiblities who the culprit(s) are, but these signs sounded
like the types used to protest. You have to ask yourself how would someone get a
hold of such signs? Would they make them just to burn? No, because burning them
would destroy the words, so your point of LDS people having hate would be
missed. Besides, these kind of crimes are usually not premeditated, they are
impromptu. My guess is that protestors were looking for a way to get rid of the
signs they had used the day before.
As a LDS member i say bring it on. How can we as members of the LDS church
expect that standing up for what is right will be easy when it was never easy
for our Savior who DIED FOR WHAT HE STOOD UP FOR. Get ready for the end of the
world, and the opposition we WILL face. This issue and ones similar are what we
can call a weeding out process; it will determine those who really believe what
they say they do. All of this is predicted in the BIBLE, read the story of sodom
Way to be objective in your reporting, Deseret. Could you describe that sinful
abode in any more graphic detail? That sounds almost as terrifying as any given
street one could walk down in Salt Lake.
I feel bad for the poster of the sign, and I feel worse for the burner of the
sign. This is the kind of stuff that happened just before the fall of Sodom and
Gomorah. Greece and Rome began the practice of Homosexual marriages and they
soon fell. Here we are in America, the greatest nation in the history of the
world, and what are we on the brink of? This is so sad, but the mainstream says,
The Gay Community has rights! Sure they have rights, but the thing is this, they
don't have the right to impose their will on the majority! Those who do not
repent, and who are not prepared will suffer, even some of the righteous will
suffer, but the good news is those who choose the right need not fear, those who
have their food storage, need not fear, those with strong families need not
fear, and those who "fear God" need not fear. Remember always who is in charge,
and that all is in the hands of god. Always count your blessings, always know
that God is in supreme control, and have faith. Always have faith and you will
Shame on those who burned and tore up the signs. But the question remains: Who
gives rights? God. God gives rights. "All men are endowed by their creator
with certain unalienable rights. . ." Government protects these. Ours is a
representative government and has constitutional protections of the right of
free speech. If those who are affected cannot speak, how are they to be
represented? All individuals and organizations are affected by laws and
judicial decisions. Governments are influenced by private individuals and
public and private organizations all the time. Why, then, do those opponents of
prop. 8 wish to silence, through intimidation, and lawsuits, the voice of
opposition? Is this not a free land? Are we not all invited to come to the
table to discuss the issues? If a group, religious or not, represented by their
government is denied access to the political process, as the opponents of 8
would like, then we do not have a free country and the rights of all people are
at risk. Religiosity of a participant in the political process has nothing to
do with the issue. All groups should speak, and should be protected in their
right to do so.
One single sign critical of the LDS church is burned and it generates more news
articles than all the articles ever written about the tens of thousands of 'Yes
on Prop 8' signs that were vandalized before the election. Hmmm...
I'll bet he did it himself to get attention
at a time when america is about to hit poverty and war can brake out. we are
worried about some funny sign in some ones yard that got burn because a couple
of teenagers just wanted to have some fun. waste of time.
A cheap cardstock sign goes up in smoke and it makes the news. Was there really
nothing more important to cover? Hungry children? Elderly people
in need? Lost employment? Something?(Incidentally, some kids rang
my doorbell and ran away a few nights ago. It wasn't covered in your paper.
So the guy who owned the house said the fire was "obviously done by a
small-minded individual with no concept of freedom of speech." Obviously HE is
the small minded one for posting such a childish sign like that in the first
When property damage is inflicted on LDS churches, the LDS faithful bigots cry
out "Look how horrible and intolerant the gay community is!"But when
an LDS bigot burns these signs, they say "Don't blame the entire church for the
behavior of one or two people!"Hypocrisy, thy name is Mormon!
I am sick of this, gays are attacking the church and it is not a hate crime,
however if something negative is said against gays then look out!
"[W]e simply want the church to keep their ideas of morality on the
pulpit and not in legislation."In other words, "We don't want the
Church to practice what it preaches. That's just not fair."
I think we can all agree that this sort of behavior should be condemned and
discouraged. It doesn't seem likely at this point that we will ever know who
did it, and I don't think it does any good to throw around unfounded
accusations. To anyone, from either side, even considering doing something like
this: DON'T. This will only provoke an escalated response, and we don't want a
repeat of Haun's Mill.
Call the ACLU
I find it interesting that there are many, many stories about GLBT protests and
boycotts and letters and everything. If I look really hard, I find the
occasional story about "Somebody's anti-LDS or anti-Prop 8 sign got stolen or
vandalized."For the most part, the retaliation against the
retaliation has been minimal to non-existent. I'm very glad for that. I disagree with homosexuality/SSM. I also disagree with people who feel the
need to vandalize anything or persecute anyone who does not agree with them. I
rather firmly believe people do not have to agree in order to get along.Just my 2 cents' worth.
As a proponent of Proposition 8, I am also a huge supporter of free speech. A
person should be allowed to place opinion signs on his or her property, and he
should have the right to wear badges or T shirts that say, "Gays are deviant,"
"Giving in to homosexual urges is a sin," "You aren't born gay, you choose your
sexual preference," and "Gay marriage jeopardizes society." Should teachers be
allowed to teach such things? Should newspapers be allowed to write such
things? Don't forget that the gay coalition did not want Dr. Laura to have free
speech because she did not think gay sex was healthful or normal. They forced
her off TV. I think I'll start a mini-boycott of my own. From now on I won't
buy or watch anything produced by anybody who is pushing the gay agenda. Elton
John, Ellen, Rosie and the rest of you, goodbye.
I'm betting it was a young person who did this. One of those teenagers that
walks the neighborhood at night with their friends and feels personally insulted
because someone said something against their church, and doesn't know how to
respond like a mature adult. They probably had no idea their actions would do a
million times more damage to the church than a silly yard sign.Whoever burned the sign needs to come forward, admit to it, apologize, and
accept the consequences.
Does the fact that beer bottles were strewn about the yard reveal anything?
What LDS goes around swigging beer, littering yards, and burning signs? Someone
please save us from the assininity of it all.
The statement from the article,"we have a secular government and in order for it
to continue to protect our constitutional rights churches must not take an
active role in politics," is simplistic and ridiculous! Separation of Church and
State does not mean that a church can't weigh in on political issues of moral
importance, especially if the law can have future ramifications on judicial
interpretations of laws that can affect the churches members and their freedom
of religion. That would be inexcusable of them not to act. That is what is
expected of the churches leaders. What if there was a proposition that you
believed was unfair toward the gay population and a church spoke out against
that proposition. Would that be acceptable? Wouldn't it hold extra weight coming
from a church on a moral issue? Sorry, but you have to allow churches to weigh
in on political topics otherwise religious people don't have anyone advocating
for them. There are a lot of not-for-profit organizations that give their
opinions on issues in the community. Why should churches be any different if the
law applies directly to them and could have legal ramifications in the future.
linda,ordained by god? i worry about folks like you ,just cannot think for
yourself .the bible, book of mormon ,koran ,all writtin by man to control man
and it has worked on you.educate yourself
people who don't have stong feelings, now do. You lost get over it. How dare you
protest at a place of worship!! Have you no shame?! The church didn't violate
the "seperation of church and state". The LDS church is not trying to become a
part of the government. There is nothing illegal with any organization letting
it's member know where the head stands. Imagine if the IRA took a stand on this
issue, would you call them out? Maybe you should try to imagine the LDS church
as a straight organization and you might get it. This is what is wrong with our
justice system, how much does a sign cost? Especially a handmade sign? $2 maybe
$5. The court costs for the lawsuit will be like $800, maybe more. I sure hope
my tax $$ is wasted on a frivolous lawsuit. It was probably dumb high school
kids that wanted to burn something and saw the sign and had an oportunity to do
it. Who didn't do stupid things like that in high school? Grow up this is a
non-story, how about we make them a new sign instead of have it go to court?
It's ironic the sign holder talks of "small minded people with no concept of
free speach". Not quick to take a side, I wanted some info on what effect
mormon's had on the vote. My research indicates that: Mormons make up less than
2% of the population of California. There are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a
total population of approximately 34 million. Mormon voters were less than 5%
of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the
rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of
the total Proposition 8 vote. In fact, if Mormon's didn't vote at all the vote
would have still passed.The rest of the 97.6% of the people that
voted yes were Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist, Black, Hispanic, Athiests, and anyone
who exercised their right to VOTE however they so choose. The gays lost, yet
they can't accept it and are quick to single out the mormons. This
coming from a beer drinking non-mormon who is tired of the gay/lesbian lobby
being intolerant of other's beliefs--when what they are asking is for others to
be tolerant of theirs.
It is not worth your freedom to damage someones property. If you are a young
person, wake up to what is right and wrong and learn how someones property is
sacred. How much blood has been spilled for this individuals free speech? It
is sacred and to be protected. If you are an adult, you missed something
somewhere in your life. Think long and hard and get some help. I hope you will
be held accountable for this and it will be a benefit to you. If you are not
held accountable by the law I pray that you will repent and ask forgivness of
this person you wronged.
@CougarKeith -I don't know where you got the idea that Rome or Greece practiced
same-gender marriage. Also, homosexuality did not bring about the fall of
Rome.Here is what is accepted as the reasons for the fall of the
Roman Republic:Internal turmoil provoked in 133 BC by economic
stagnation in the city of Rome, slave revolts without and dissension in the
military precipitated a period of unrelenting political upheaval known as the
Roman Revolution, the Late Roman Republic, or the Fall of the Republic. In
essence, the republic system of government underwent a painful and violent
transition from irresponsible oligarchy to a more accountable autocratic form of
government. It is possible to discern a pattern in the devolution of legal,
constitutional authority in the Republic and to identify FOUR steps to the
collapse of Republican authority.1. THE RISE OF POPULAR TRIBUNES 2. THE RISE OF PRIVATE ARMIES 3. THE FIRST TRIUMVIRATE 4.
"obviously done by a small-minded individual with no concept of freedom of
speech."I love that quote. Is this not the exact same thing the
Church and it's members exercised in supporting Prop8. Free Speech.
In addition to our stated rules, any comments containing threats or references
to violence of any kind will not be posted. If the trend continues, all comments
will be barred from this story.
This is unprofessional biased Journalism. You mentioned twice the beer cans
everywhere---which had absolutely no relevance...as well as the got satan
sticker. How was any of that relevant to the story---in which someone set fire
to something which could easily have spread to a house and killed people. Maybe
the person who wrote the article was the one who set the sign on fire.
gus and matthew... thank you. you are the example i want to show my children.
you are grown adults and are able to agree to disagree without name calling and
violence. i appreciate your example. if we all believe in "a" god,
and that god loves everyone, gay or straight, then why are we -both sides- so
mean to each other? please, let's set a better example for our children.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to
say it." - Voltaire
"How dare you protest at a place of worship!!"As an LDS person who
voted against prop 8, my ward building has not been a place of worship for about
4 months. It has been prop 8 headquarters.Our first three
testimonies at our lsat fast and testimony meeting were all about prop 8.
Couldn't tell you how many more, as I had to leave.
"Why is this a religious issue. I'm not religious at all but I can still figure
out that gay marriage is wrong for society." Why is this a
black/white issue. I'm not black at all but I can still figure out that
inter-racial marriage is wrong for society.
"I find it so sad that some would blame the Church Of Jesus Christ Of
Latter Day Saints for what the people voted on. Marriage between a man and a
woman is ordained by God. It is just that simple. Clearly all this anger and
hatefulness is not the way to go about a disagreement with a law and comes from
a source that is not of God. "Some people don't believe in your God.
Some people don't believe in any God. This is their society as well as yours.
If you lived in the middle east you might understand the problems of
having a "God-based" government. But then of course, you have the "true"
religion and they don't.
does anyone think the owner of the sign started it on fire? would be a great way
to get some press time.
Why do gay people demand that religious people should stay out of politics? In
a way, the philosophy held by many gays is its own secular religion. But we
don't insist that they stay out of politics. Many of their
political beliefs derive from their sexual preference, some of mine derive from
a belief in God. Why should I confine mine to a pulpit while they are free to
voice theirs in the public sphere?
"There is beauty all around when there's love at home."Attack the
structure not the individual. A little more love, a little more tolerance,
The separation of church and state clause in our constitution was put in place
to prevent the government from controlling the church like it had in England
(The Church of England). It was not put in place to prevent religious thoughts,
symbols or morals from becoming part of the laws voted on by the people for the
people.Our country's first laws were based on the 10 commandments
and our fore fathers were very religious God fearing people. If our fore
fathers were allowed to influence the government under these same premises why
can't people today do the same?I like the statistics above from
Scott-I did some brief fact finding and see them to be sound approximations.Also if religion is not supposed to be a part of all this conversation
then why are we discussing the question on whether Gays can marry? Marriage is
a religious institution that over time added elements of a civil contract. This
civil contract provides rights/responsibilities to the individuals. Check in on
the religious aspects of a Catholic or Mormon marriage and you'll see that they
recognize the civil license and the religious ceremony as separate entities.
Other religions may be similar.
Does anyone know if this should be classified as a hate crime?
Scott- thank you! Very good post, I think the LDS faith is just th prominent
face involved in the argument in this area, thus the easiest target.I remmeber hearing the other morning of a Book of Mormon being burned at a
temple, where was Mr' Free Speech in this case? Why was that not condemned by
the gay advocates as a violation of their beloved "free speech for all
policy?"Because they agreed with it- talk about hypocrisy!
RE: LindaIt is "Just that simple" for you as you view this issue
through your dogma. Other view the issue differently. What I find simple is how
YOU view things.
Yes, churches should stay out of politics, except when governments take on
inherently religious issues such as marriage..
Could be attacked for sharing this, but the owner of the signs did the damage.
You know this how?
The problem with people using religion as the basis for opinion on this subject
is that those not of said religion can't or don't follow the same thought
patterns and won't see or accept your point of view. I myself am against gay
marriage on the level of it being bad for society as a whole. If you disagree
with me than just look at what has been going on lately in Sweden or any of the
other Northern European countries that have legalized gay marriage and really
all other forms of partnerships, aka. plural wives, husbands, multiples of both,
etc. Do some research on them and see if the results of those policies are what
you want here. Unfortunatley, I don't think anyone of the anti-prop 8
persuasion will be willing to accept the evidence as it is presented. One of
the great (sarcastic) things of human nature is that we tend only to accept
evidence that supports our point of view and throw out all other evidence as
Let us not hyperventilate over this violation. One day we might look back to
these as the good ole days when all they did to us is deface some of our
property and burn signs. This sign burning isn't worth getting exercised about.
Here's what is great. WHen Bergstrom wants his signs up, it is free speech. When
the church shares its view on marriage, it is hate-speech.Pick a
After reading many of these comments, I am not surprised that the FBI reports a
6% increase in violent acts against homosexuals and a decline in all other hate
Allow me the right to follow your 11th article of faith:We claim the
privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own
conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where,
or what they may.My God allows for gay marriage. Why won't you
allow me to practice my beliefs?
the LDS church was forced clear out of the country by bigots and yet we were
allowed to grow and thrive. if we don't learn the lessons of history and maybe
more to the point the lessons we teach in church on sunday, what kind of a world
are we creating. God gave us agency for a reason and when we seek to take agency
from one person we risk our own. I personnally don't care how you define
marriage but when we create systemic obstructions to equal protection under the
law for all our citizens we have to ask what happens when we are the persecuted.
the love christ asks of us is simple and pure and offers no option for bigotry.
in times of trouble...well you know the rest!
To the 10:23 commentator, I felt the statement about the sticker on the
door was given to indicate that the signs were probably posted by a resident of
the house. Placing signs in front of someone else's house is not an unheard of
We will, but we also will expect you to follow the 12th article of faith (can't
pick and choose - all or none)12 We believe in being subject to
kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining
the law. Most interpret that the laws of this country always denied
gay marriage, squeeky wheels allowed the courts to trample on this
interpretation. And how does this country work - it allows the people to vote
on clarifications and after proposition 8 passed it is now more clearly defined
that in California it is against the law.At no point has someone
stated that you can't worship your God how you choose. But being married isn't
how people worship their God. It is how they religiously commit to someone on
this earth. Not to their God. If someone stayed single all their life because
they didn't find the right partner they are no less capable of worshipping their
God than someone who is married.
To say that churches can't be involved in the political process is absurd. They
as an entityand as individual members are as viable in the political
process as anyone or any other entityor organization. And as far as a
legislatingmorality; our whole legal system and laws areall based on
morality. Is it moral or immoral tosteal from someone? Is it moral or
immoral tokill someone? Get the point. All our laws arebased on
Freedom of speech is sacred. Let's respect it, defend it, and exercise extreme
care and thoughtfulness in how we personally use it.
So, there were too many crimes against Yes on 8 signs to even make the news, I
guess.But, one guy gets his sign burned and gets his OWN story. Awesome.
It is always the extreme actions of the few that make the news. I believe that
in reality the vast majority of people on both sides of this argument have been
calm, civil, non-violent and respectful, it's just that you don't hear about
those people in the news.LDS members have every right to campaign
for what they believe in and those who disagree have every right to voice their
opinions as well.I was alarmed to see that a different story on
desnews had to have it's comments closed because there were threats being made
in the comments.I hope that people on both sides will come to
understand that everybody is entitled to voice their opinion without being
subjected to threats, violence or property damage.
Dear Jeremy,Please remember that many Christians and most Mormons
don't believe people are born gay. We all are born with tendencies that are
shaped by our choices and environments. While I have TREMENDOUS sympathy for
gay people, I do not condone their actions, just as I don't condone the actions
of liars, thieves, adulterers, abusers, etc. I know that sounds harsh but like
I said, many of us think this behavior is a sin. I myself am not perfect so I
would never cast a stone at another. Just understand that we will never accept
this behavor as normal; that's why we can't be for same-sex marriage. I will
never accept abortion, euthanasia, or same-sex marriage. I don't hate people
because of their beliefs but I will not be forced to accept them either.
You can worship whatever God you want and if you believe he is agreeable to
same-sex marriage, more power to you. That doesn't mean I can't vote the way I
see fit. That has nothing to do with how you worship.
Iman AND vegas jeff: having different views from other people is fine but it is
not fine when these differences turn into any type of hate crime. Believing in
God does not make anyone a SIMPLE minded or an uneducated person.FYI
IF we are going to discuss this.... try to keep race out of it. Gay's are not a race. it's a group of people with common feelings. weather i agree with it or not. does not make me a racist or not.
I am saddened to know that my children are watching our voting
process in America. If the majority votes win and the out come is not the way
you wanted, you have the right to throw temper tantrums, vandalize property,
tattle tale to the media, and basically whine ,complain, and cry until you get
your way.I also want to add name calling. I have to explain to my children that
adults do not always act like adults,sometimes they act like three year olds.
Grow up and except that the majority ruled.
i dont know why everyone's targettng the LDS church I'm pretty sure 53% of the
californian population IS NOT LDS. It was clearly a widely and deeply felt
issue. IT seems to me the LDS church was encouraging its members to exercise
their democratic right to stand up and educate their peers on important issues.
Its far too easy to pick on the LDS church. Vandalism of anyone is not
acceptable regardless of which viewpoint you agree with
The separation between church and state was intended to keep governmental
infiltration and control out of churches. It was never intended by our founders
to keep God and his commandments out of the government. Our laws are based on
Judeo-Christian values. The Ten commandments have been part of and influenced
our nations values since it's beginning. Our belief in a Supreme Creator and our
trust in His guidance is so valuable to our nation that we printed it on our own
money. We live in a day that our constitution hangs as a thread. We
cannot allow secular progressives to continue to change our country to their
idea of what America should be. Judges who legislate from the bench are
overriding the rights of the moral majority. We need to stand together to
protect the ideals and values of a country that was founded by men who were
guided by a supreme being, who were divinely inspired to Declare our
Independence and write our Constitution. If we do not fight and defend our
freedoms we will loose them. We may be taken over from within. Don't buy
into the big lie that takes God out of our great democracy.
RE:TicketHolder | 8:40 p.m. Nov. 13, 2008 How is this even newsworthy?This maybe doesn't seem like the most newsworthy event, however, when
the rights of the people are in danger (especially on something so fundamental
and critical to our country and freedom) I would call that newsworthy. ps. Maybe they forgot to put their hammer away. Maybe they were just making a
point. Maybe they were trying to frame their opponent, etc... You are jumping