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Utah

Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City

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  • Meh.
    Nov. 7, 2008 2:58 p.m.

    A protest at Temple Square. What's new.

  • Rights
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    Being gay doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years have defined marriage and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of experience. Nuff said.

  • Bored
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:06 p.m.

    Seriously don't you people have better things to do. It's Friday night...time to party! Don't waste it at the Temple.

  • CTMac
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    I for one will be up there to protect the temple gates and walls from being vandalized. Come join me!!!

    The homosexuals in LA sure dont have any respect for private property. What a classless bunch.

  • SoCal
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    Keep it up protestors. Keep showing us how religion has nothing to do with the issue of gay marriage. Keep showing us how respectful you are of the democratic process. Keep showing us how you don't single out one group of people or Church and scream hateful things at them when they exercise their constitutional right to vote. Keep showing the rest of the country what this is really about.

    Keep shooting yourselves in the foot.

  • Californian
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    Thank you to all the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in your help and support in passing Prop 8.

    As we did in 2000, Californias have overwelming choosen to support traditional marriage and rejected the rulings of activist judges.


  • Dennis Jones
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:11 p.m.

    As Elder Packer once stated: "A stately horse, when stung by a fly, is still a stately horse, and the fly is still a fly".

    As a California member of the LDS church, I was proud to donate my time and money to this important cause. I encountered hatred and intolerance from those opposed to the proposition as I made hundreds of phone calls. I had a sign in my front yard defaced. This action did not deter me from my volunteerism.

    The church will continue to grow throughout the world because of its message of love and hope. This issue, which is hot now, will soon cool and be but a memory.

  • 1 Nephi 14
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:13 p.m.

    This reminds me of 1 Nephi 14:13, which says:

    "And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God."

    What do you think?

  • Ashley
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:13 p.m.

    I am a memeber of LDS faith, and the church never tells you how to vote. How can you blame one religion for passing the law. It is the people that passed it not the church. People just want to protest.

  • Sarah
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:14 p.m.

    Whipple also said, and I am quoting from the front page of the Trib, "We want to show we share their [gay Californians] pain, and here, at the heart of the church, we want to stab it."

    Is there nobody organizing a rally to offset the protesters tonight? I would gladly drive downtown to Temple Square to sing hymns and listen to the words of the prophets with other members of the LDS church.

  • What's the point?
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:14 p.m.

    It is not only LDS people who voted YES on prop 8, obviously there are other religions and other moral people who believe in marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN. March all you want, but come on, it's not going to change anything. It's like protesting that Obama won, what is done is done. MAJORITY RULES....

  • one man one woman
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:15 p.m.

    And afterwards are they going to march around the Catholic church and any other religious or private enterprise that was for Prop 8? Now that would show an unbiased hassel of a specific religion.

  • Me
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:15 p.m.

    I guess i just don't understand why they think that it is the lds faith's fault? Are they the only ones that don't support gay marriage, i do not think so!

  • Keep Cali Straight
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    Why the protest after the fact that it passed? If prop 8 didn't pass there wouldn't be a protest. Plus, your not going to change the LDS churches decision.

  • Good for them
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:18 p.m.

    How wonderful it is that a group who feels persicuted against can go and express themselves freely. I wish I could be there, however I live in Southern California. I am married with three children of my own, however I see this as the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s. Fear ruled the day during that time in history and now peoples fear is leading them into a similar situation. Be safe and smart to all who are out there tonight. As long as both sides can keep love in their hearts than this is a good experience for both sides to see.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    I don't agree with them, but they have a right to do this. It's a better idea than the one about boycotting Utah. If that plan is carried out, it will punish people that had nothing to do with passing Prop. 8.

  • jooj
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    I don't agree with the protesters, and I think that they are just as closed minded as any one else, but...

    God bless America and our rights to protest!!

    Free speech for all!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    Have fun wasting your time protesting. Wont change the way the church stands on proposition 8.

  • Wish I could be there to watch
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:21 p.m.

    These protests are always so entertaining.

  • Heheh
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    Yep, blame the church for what THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS feel is right and moral.

    Sorry your activist judges got put in their place.

  • waste o time.
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    Gays want "equality" so they are going to protest and yell garbage at 1 member of a larger coalition. The church's members donated not SLC. I guess they will be walking around every house who donated to the cause. Your "solidarity" will notgain you much support. There are far more people in California who voted for the proposition than there are members of the LDS church. GET A CLUE!

  • Acegrace
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    The Church did not put their funds into this but does have the right to urge us to fight for our values. So individuals donated money and worked on this project in conjunction with other faiths.
    The Church urged civility and said they do not take a position against some things like rights of inheritance or hospital visitation.

    Are these protesters not aware that the LDS were only 1% of the population of California and that the Catholics were equally involved? Are they going to march on the Cathedral in Salt Lake too?



    No, of course, we are the easier target.

  • Scarlet
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    I plan on attending tonight but I want to know if it will be peaceful enough that I can bring my 9yr old son with me.

  • Joe H
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:23 p.m.

    This whole protest makes sense... I mean, half of California is Mormon, that is why the gay ban was approved...

  • Robert Oh
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:24 p.m.

    Thanks you Jacob! OXO

  • Tom in CA
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:26 p.m.

    Prop 8 in CA prevailed, and now the sore losers once again want to throw out democracy. They do not want laws, just their own "rules".

    If you want to place "blame" on the Yes vote, please consider:

    The CA African American community who voted OVERWHELMLY for Obama, voted 80 to 20 against gay marriage, and IN FAVOR of Prop 8 - without this vote the proposition would have lost.

    The Mormons played a relatively small role in its passage, all things considered - and mind you, many Mormons voted NO.

    What say you??

  • Luvswomen
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:26 p.m.

    Right On!! If I didn't have to work I would be there. How sickening, the church calls it's people to back a law in California so they can help to abolish peoples rights. It blows me away to listen to some of the church doctrine that teaches acceptance and forgiveness then this.... I am a straight male that loves women, life and my rights to do and be whomever I want, as long as I don't interfere with others right. I don';t know where the church gets off sometimes, but I feel bad for all the good people that belong to it and really believe it is the true church...because actions like this prove it is not.

  • Wake Up People
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:27 p.m.

    Get a life. Do you really think the church cares if you march around the temple? Being gay is a choice not a right. Too bad it won't be 30 below tonight.

  • Ugly
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:29 p.m.

    This is going to turn ugly as soon as some elderly folks try to access Temple Square and the protesters get in their faces. So what's next...gay marriage supporters standing in front of LDS chapels. The protesters will lose their drive after a couple of weeks and go back to complaining about everything with their lives.

  • Why...
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:32 p.m.

    I guess these folks don't think you should get involved with your community and defend your beliefs.

  • Mark
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:32 p.m.

    Yawn.

  • solo man for equality
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:38 p.m.

    I encourage everyone that wants equal rights to stand up with me and thousands of others tonight. I cannot stand by and watch as my brothers and sisters in the GLBT community are discriminated againgst. I shall stand up and fight for their right to have a loving relathionship as I do with my wife.

  • Dave
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:38 p.m.

    Like protesting will do a whole lot of good. This will backfire.

    By the way. I used to be very sympathetic to the gay community. No more.

    The GLBT community is proving itself to truly be the most bigoted and intolerant.

  • Adam
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:39 p.m.

    I'm having a hard time understanding people that want to be different from what has been established for hundreds of years in accordance to the laws of marriage but excpect to get all of the same benefits. When you chose to be gay you consiouscly choose to give up certain rights and privilages. Either live with the consequences of your choice or buy a island way out in the middle of the pacific and create your own little gay society. Quite trying to be different and fit in at the same time.

  • Chance
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:40 p.m.

    I would like to thank our wonderful gay friends for contributing to our City's revenue by spending money while they are here. Shop away! Protesting is a right, stealing the definition of marriage is obviously not. The people have spoken.....it is democracy at work.

  • Be Real
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:40 p.m.

    Come on, be realistic. This is the second time the voice of the people have said no to gay marriage. Doesn't the gay movement believe in democracy? Maybe all of us that didn't vote for Obama should stage a protest. Maybe we could get some activist judges to override the will of the people and have McCain put in as president.

  • Bayou Vol
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:41 p.m.

    Anyone know if the church will be suing the Gay and Lesbian Center of Los Angeles for the property damage caused yesterday at the temple? Anyone know if the handful of members that were physically attacked will seek hate crime charges against the Center?

  • Michelle
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:47 p.m.

    Why is it not okay for people to fulfill their duties as an American citizen and vote, but it is okay for you to go protest at a place that is sacred for many many millions of people?

    Why is it that you say the LDS church hates gay people and you cry about it, but then you go and are hateful towards the church?

    Seriously...stop for a moment and think. You're being a little hypocritical.

  • Bayou Vol
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    Who's on teh Lord's side who? Now is the time to show. We ask it fearlessly, Who's on the Lord's side who?
    The stone cut without hands to fill the earth must grow. Who'll help to roll it on? Who's on the Lord's side who?
    Our ensign to the world is floating proudly now, no coward bears our flag, Who's on the Lord's side who?
    The powers of earth and hell in rage direct the blow that's aimed to crush the work; Who's on the Lord's side who?
    Truth, life and liberty, Freedom from death and woe, are stakes we'refighting for, Who's on the Lord's side who?

  • Henry Drummond
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    Using political activism to enforce religious beliefs works both ways. What is the difference between using political muscle to "defend traditional marriage" against gays and using political muscle "defend traditional Christianity" against Mormon Political candidates such as Mitt Romney? You have sown the wind and you will now reap the whirlwind.

  • THANK YOU SLC
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    As a straight LDS California resident who feels crushed by the Church's promotion of Prop 8, I want to personally thank all of you SLC supporters of human rights who will be demonstrating. It inspires me and restores some of my faith in humanity to see you making a stand for equality and compassion in the heart of Utah. I will be there with you in spirit.

  • Michelle
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:50 p.m.

    Sarah.

    At 5:30 tonight, there will be people gathering to sing hymns. Wear you Sunday best and a smile. Bring a non-bashing attitude.

    It might be successful. I got a text message about it and it is being passed along to tons of people.

  • Dirk
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:50 p.m.

    Let's just hope that the Salt Lake City officials (unlike those in LA) have the guts to confront and prosecute those who deface the property of the LDS church during these "peaceful protests." The photos of the graffiti sprayed on the fences of the LA Temple really showed the true colors of some of these gay-rights advocates. When your agenda is "tolerance, peace, and love for all who think only as I do," how can you be taken seriously? Those who call all members of the LDS Church "bigots" because they differ on a certain philosophical point - not scientific, mind you - are so blinded by their own religious bigotry that they become almost comical in their pathetic attempts to vilify the LDS Church. Why aren't these people marching around the local Muslim mosques whose leaders strongly condemn homosexuality, or likewise, some of the Evangelical or Catholic churches? It really is perplexing. So much for "tolerance" in the true sense of the word.

  • oh
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:51 p.m.

    at first i percieved then i thought ...there is nothing wrong on both parts ...the lds have taken their voting rigths that they are entitled to..let them be ..the other religions should be talking peace not about or labeling people bigots..there are some very good people in there ..just don't generalize on either side!

  • Ashamed to have ever been Mormon
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:52 p.m.

    RE: "No one on either side of the question should be vilified, intimidated, harassed or subject to erroneous information."

    How disingenuous. After listening to all the outright lies the Church used to promote Proposition 8 here in California, I find the previous statement to be totally ludicrous. Not only did they claim that gay marriage would be required to be taught in school, they also claimed that churches would be forced to perform gay marriages and close their charities. When I realized that the church was willing to lie for the sake of winning, I lost all respect for it.

  • richard
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:52 p.m.

    when are the radical homosexuals going to protest at the NAACP, or the Mexican consulate or the Catholic church, all groups that also supported Prop 8? I guess the Mormon church is an easy target.

  • For What?
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    I don't know what they hope to accomplish. I guess they will show thay they can march till they're blue in the face, tired, cold and it will make no difference.

    I also don't think there is any reason to put on a counter protest. The hardest fight to fight is one where there is nobody to fight back. a counter protest will do nothing but make them more angry. Then when this is all over, the law will still be the law.

  • VOICE OF THE PEOPLE!
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    Give me a break! First of all - this protest is happening in UT???? What??? UT didn't have to go through hours of this campaign and suffer countless offensive behavoir with the opposition!

    Not only that - the "VOICE OF THE PEOPLE" has spoken ONCE AGAIN (jeesh!) ... in ALL 3 states, CA, AZ & FL! ANNNNNNND don't you think that the voice of the people is saying something LOUD AND CLEAR?

    Man! There are a lot of DEAF EARS out there!! Get a life - this is SOOOOOOOOO old now...."after-the-fact". It would be like me standing in front of the white house waiving my McCain sign! Moronic!!!!

  • Yeah Right
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:55 p.m.

    All one has to do is read the comments posted on the other Proposition 8 articles in this newspaper to understand just how mean-spirited and abusive LDS church members are on this subject. Further, the Deseret News was willing to post most of those hateful self-serving and self-righteous posts. Shame on you.

  • Active Citizen
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of those that do evil, but because of those who watch it and let it happen." {Albert Einstein}

    A thank you to all of you who supported Prop 8 and didn't watch it and let it happen. Unfortunately, those that oppose it will continue to cry foul. What's next?

  • Re:Dennis Jones
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:56 p.m.

    I am sure you are a loving and wonderful human being, however do you believe that this will go away? The no to prop 8 crowd views this as nothing more than a civil rights issue. As far as the LDS Church is concerned, does it really matter if it grows or not? Is that the goal of being LDS, to see how many people you can get to join? Since the LDS Church is about Love and Hope (in your words) what part of that is your church showing to the people who are being judged as immoral in your view. One thing that so many religious people don't get, is that you believe that what the Bible says is God's words. How about the people who are not Christian...Buddhists, Hindu's, Jews etc. The gay activists are actively petitioning to have the LDS Church's tax exemption taken away, because they have mixed church and state in this situation. They are fighting for what they believe in. When a church sends out information having members give time and money for pr0p 8, it has then become a political entity that will then be treated as a business not a church.

  • slbison
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    why are self righeous mormons in such denial... until something unfair happens to them?

    very sophmoric...

  • Doug
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    There is a double-standard for gay people to participate in a free speech rally but then condemn the Church and it's members for doing the same thing by encouraging members to speak up on a matter which goes to the heart of the teachings of the Church - marriage and family. In fact, it was decided the way it should have been, by the people - not the courts. There was no constitutional right that gives gays the right to marry. But now there is a consitutional ammendment defining marriage.

  • Elizabeth
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    Gays and lesbians had much riding on the outcome of Prop 8--a big part of their humanity, actually. They are angry, hurting and determined to keep working for a cause they believe to be just. About 160 years ago, a young religion called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was seen as wacky, wrong-headed, even evil. Remember persecution?

    Try walking in a gay man or lesbian woman's shoes for a couple of hours. Gay people have been dismissed, beaten and arrested for congregating in their own bars. They are marginalized and overlooked in many areas of society.

    Member of the LDS Church should, of all people, understand and empathize. You want gays to be all nice and shut up about this vote. They need to vent. It's their right. In another couple of decades younger people will have taken over government spots as well as key spots in the church. Time will soften such hard hearts.

  • anne
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    when my children were little and they had temper tantrums the only thing that consistantly worked was to not react.
    I am sure the proper people have thought out plans for dealing with vandalism attempts on church property.
    We would be better served to let them do their jobs without our interferance.
    The protesters have a legal right to their opinion so long as they don't become violent and destructive. Let follow counsel and not have a hand in escallating bad feelings.
    We have dealt with it before. We can do it again. With kindness and restraint.

  • You lost...move on!
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    These protesters just crack me up. Why can't they accept the fact that they lost, and move on? In California they can register as domestic partners and receive essentially the same rights as married persons.

    The California electorate has spoken. They don't want gay marriage! Just like Obama won the election. Those who voted for McCain, such as myself, have to accept the fact that our candidate won't be taking office. You can't win them all. That's life. Enough from the pro-gay marriage contingent! Accept defeat gracefully, be grateful for what you have, and move on.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 3:58 p.m.

    I can't believe this church supports codifying discrimination.

    it has to be the only western religion that supports actively striking out at a subset of the population.

    as a Christian, I am utterly offended.

  • me again
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    Tonight I am going to protest Utah for being in Utah.

  • for equality, not againgst churc
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    I for one will be down there tonight. not to protest against the LDS faith but to show my support for those of the GLBT community. I have no problem with any religion deciding what they deem to be a marriage for their congregation. But i as an American cannot sit by while fellow Americans are denied rights that are given to me. That is why I will be there tonight.

  • Bob
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    Why aren't the protests occuring in Watts, Compton, East L.A. or Santa Ana. It was the Black and Hispanic votes (70%) that helped Prop 8 pass.

  • Protest
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    I for one will be at the protest to let the LDS church know that they cannot get away with such hatred during these times.
    The people that have commented before me do not understand democratic process, and they truly do not understand equal rights.

  • kyle
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    i live in socal and i can tell you that the protesters at the LDS temple were a disgrace, to put it mildly. They really showed their true colors. Only 24 hours after a campaing where they tried to convince us that gay marriage would have no impact on religion, they've singled out and slandered a religion and apparently filed several lawsuits in an attempt to revoke its tax exempt stauts. All this because members of that church exercised its freedom of speech and lawfully engaged in the democratic process. I suspect these militant gays have set their cause back 20 years by their abhorrant behavior!

  • Lost
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    You lost this member.. Enough of the church messing with other people's right.. It's not even in our state!! Time for the church to do something positive to right this sinking ship..

  • jlc
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:01 p.m.

    Gays don't want special rights they only want the same rights as everyone else. What is wrong with that? How will it have any impact on your life? It won't, so let them be happy and get married as consenting adults. Discrimination is against the law. Prop 8 is blatant discrimination.

  • Re: Rights
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:02 p.m.

    "Being gay doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years have defined marriage and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of experience. Nuff said."

    How about this:
    Being a slave doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years have defined slavery and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of experience. Nuff said.

  • OH
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:03 p.m.

    It is true that the Mormon church did a lot to pass Prop 8, but in the grand scheme of things, the percentage of Mormons in California is probably about 5-10% of the total population. The fact of the matter is that this was passed by the voice of the people in California. The overwhelming majority of the people who voted to pass Prop 8 in California are not Mormon.

    Marriage is from God and it is not our decision to define what it is or isn't.

  • Re: Sarah
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    I'm with you! Hope of Israel rise in might!!!

  • boiseguy
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    protesting at temple square is a waste of time.
    just stick with a lawsuit. A majority vote on civil rights is unconstitutional and it will be overturned as well. Its just a matter of time. And there will be gay marriage even in utah and Idaho and everywhere else soon enough. When that happens, tables will turn, and we'll be seeing ridiculous words and actions by people who are pointing fingers now. People will be free and represented under their government fairly and justly. Prepare your little mormon heads for it. Its going to come.
    god bless

  • Anti-pride
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    Being gay does not define me.

  • Geezer
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    The church will come to regret having pushed for this anti-marriage measure.

  • lin in tn
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    This is a democratic republic. The people have spoken. Let it be.

  • tony
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    Doesn't the church remember what it was like to be an outcast? Even still, romney lost cause he is a mormon republican. Dems are fair and give rights to all, even mormons like harry reid. Thanks to the church for trumping our rights. We now need to push the irs to no longer allow tax exempt status for the church...let's tax their tithing! You will lose temples...you will lose churches...you will lose members. But at least you have rights and deserve them. Just as those who wish to marry. The church should have fought the womens rights of abortion, assisted suicides, and the legalizing of marijuana...those are much worse!

  • Been there, done that...
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:06 p.m.

    The LDS Church is not the only organization which helped Prop. 8 to pass...a coalition of other churces, in addition to the majority of the citizens of California, are also to thank/blame (depending on how you look at it). I am proud for the LDS Church who always sticks up for what they believe, especially at a time when some may view it as unpopular, and anyone who wants to protest integrity will find few who want to listen. The LDS Church, from it's very beginning, has been the target of scrutiny--if you really want to make the Church look bad you should stop giving it so much credit and look the other way--otherwise, we have seen it all before--and it's just old news. One more thing--this wasn't an attack on homosexuality--it is a definition of marriage (I am curious as to why we need to define something that already has a definition ?!?).

  • silent voice
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:07 p.m.

    So why aren't the other religions being attack as aggressively as the LDS church? Sounds prejudice to me

  • Black and Latino Voters
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:07 p.m.

    Although the MEMBERS of the LDS church (not the church) helped to pass this very important proposition, the homosexual movement needs to give more credit to President-Elect Obama and the minority vote (70% of Black and Latino voters supported Prop 8).

    If not for Obama, the number of minority voters would not have voted. Without their votes, Prop 8 would not have passed.

    Why do we not see some protests at NAACP headquarters in California?

    Bottom line, the people's voice was heard loud and clear: Protect families, children, and religious freedoms...

  • C.W.
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:10 p.m.

    These marches are great entertainment value but have little political significance! I wonder if they'd still have their march if no tv cameras showed up?

  • To 1 Nephi 14
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:10 p.m.

    Amen. I too want to join other members at the temple tonight. We must be Christlike though and show strength of resistence to do evil back to those who come to defile the temple. The temple stands for everything pure and holy in this world and is as Noah's Ark with the world mocking Noah and his family as he built it only to pound upon it's doors for deliverance from the floods when they hit. The floods of evil, immorality, and hate have arrived let us now purify ourselves so that we do not drown in them and go to the temple tonight. Let us pray for our enemies and for ourselves that we may be full of charity towards them. I understand their frustration, but my Presidential choice didn't win and I'm not rioting and causing evil to come upon my neighbors for thier opposite choice. My right to have less taxes were taken away by those who voted both in congress and in the state against my wishes and with Obama he's made it clear they will continue to rise, but you won't see me destroying my Democratic neighbor's property over it.

  • Scott
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:11 p.m.

    I'm a member of the LDS church and believe homosexuality is wrong. However, I defend the right of the homosexual community to protest. Its a fundamental part of democracy to be able to have freedom of speech even if you don't agree with them. Second, the LDS church has a right to make a statement against proposition 8, also due to freedom of speech. A rally to offset the protestors is also democratic. However I question motives of people on both sides. Are people wanting to go out there tonight just to antagonize and look for a fight or to, as already said, "protect the temple gates and walls from being vandalized." Police will be there so don't worry about them vandalizing the temple. Both sides need to show more respect and class.

  • Pete
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:12 p.m.

    Proposition 8 was a meaningless exercise. The fact is that marrage is a religious rite and has no place in the government of the United States. Under the Constitution of the United States it states in the first amendment that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". States are prohibited by the Constitution from making laws that the Constitution prohibits congress from making. By codifying marrage the government endorses a religious rite as an official act of the government. What United States governments must do is eliminate marrage altogether from our laws. There is no legal reason whatsoever that marrage should be considered in any Federal or state law or local ordinance. To do so violates the 1st Amendment.

  • jt
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    i am not lds, i am a born again christian and i am against same sex marriage. the lds have some of the most loving families i have ever seen. i do not know much about them but i do know i am 100% with them on this subject. i want to know why they are attacking just the mormon church. that just shows you how uneducated some of these people are. they want to blame someone, so lets get the mormons. well, i won't be there physically but i will be there in spirit to help guard the gates to the temple in slc. your born again friend and sister in christ

  • Chris
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    I don't get it they didn't get it passed so they want to go to court to get the decision they want.

    I believe that the vote of the people should beat a single judge anytime. It was not like 12 people voted like a jury. This was a jury of your peers but the jury was 5 million people voting to keep marriage between man and women.

    You should fight not for marriage right but tax rights as a civil union.

  • Daren
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    I find it interesting that in Arizona the ads against the proposition were all stating that everyone should vote no on the propostion because there were so many more improtant things to be concerned about in our county and the world. Now that it has passed it seems to be the number one issue on the minds of those who opposed the ban.

    You can protest all you want it does not change the fact that homosexuality was, is, and will always be a sin, and will never be condoned by the church. we as a church have endured and worse and I am sure we will endure more ridicule and persecution in the future. All that does is increase my faith and determination to fight against evil. The faithful members of this church know these battles are coming and will not shirk their responsiblities in defense of our creator and his church.

  • Weird
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    Doesn't that conflict with the announced boycott of Utah? How can you boycott Utah and show up at Temple Square at the same time? That community desperately needs an organizer.

  • John T
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    I think the reason the Mormon church is being targeted is because of many people's perception that the church violated the separation of church and state and violated its tax exempt status by lobbying so hard for the passage of Prop 8. I don't think we actually separate church and state anymore. I don't know why the Catholic church has been given a free pass on this one. Too big, I suppose. They were also heavy contributors. Another issue is denying homosexuals the right or privilege to marry for all time regardless of what we learn in the future about human sexuality. We aren't a bunch of Iron Age shepherds lost in the Sinai. I think it's too early to call this one over and done with. Time will certainly tell.

  • Gotta love democracy
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    I hope every one who goes gets a wake up call that It happen in CALIFORNIA. This is UTAH. You guys are off by A couple few hundred miles.

    Oh Yah I heard that the PEOPLE VOTED and the MAJORITY won. Imagine that. Wow that was hard.

    What is so hard to understand that marriage is between a husband and wife? You have mother and a father. Not two fathers. Not two mothers. One Dad and one Mom

  • Jonathan
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:17 p.m.

    It is quite illuminating to see all the kind messages of good will directed towards the people exercising their constitutional right to assembly. It tells me all I need to know about the LDS church.

  • MG
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:18 p.m.

    Next week we need to go to Roam and march around the Vatican. Then we will... where is the Sons of Columbus's temple?

  • Dave
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    Last I checked, African Americans in SoCal overwhelmingly (70%+) voted in support of Prop 8. When's the protest in Compton planned?

  • Explaination
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:22 p.m.

    Good. Excersize your freedom of speach. But if any thing happens to the temple.... Mormons where I am from do have tempers. Just a warning.

  • can du
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:23 p.m.

    Why are gays targeting the LDS church? Deep down, they know. They instinctively know The Temple is both a symbol and a center of a real power. In an odd way, they actually have a testimony that the church really is what it says it is.
    This is yet another extention of what we call "The War in Heaven."

  • Why Now?
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:23 p.m.

    I don't get why marches, protests, and so forth are being called now. Why not last week, before the votes were cast?

    It seems that would have been a better time to galvanize support for the cause.

  • Facts
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:24 p.m.

    Everyone knows that the LDS Church sent out a memo urging its members to support prop 8. Everyone also knows that the church requested members to either call or go to California in order to support prop 8. I live in Southern California so I know these are the facts. I also know that the LDS's members donated nearly 40% of the money that supported prop 8. So if people are still wondering why people are upset with a specific church, it should be no suprise. The LDS Church crossed the line between "seperation of church and state." There is no doubt that the LDS Church got way to involved in a political issue and now they are seeing the results of their actions. It is insulting when people keep saying that the LDS members are only 1% of the population in California or what about the Catholics or Protestans who supported prop 8. We all know this, however other religious groups gave their oppinion and then they stopped pushing the issue in public...the LDS Church didn't. This issue will not go away.

  • Cassi
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:24 p.m.

    I think some of you are being very closed minded about this gathering. People, be they gay or straight, can get together and peaceably assemble with out it going bad. You have painted the people going to this rally mean spirited people and that is not the case. They just want their voices heard. They will go and listen to to some speeches and do some walking. Believe it or not it is a constitutional right for them to do this protest as much as some people would like them to have none. They can gather where they would like and peaceably assemble which is exactly what they will do. There is no reason for such an up roar about the protest. In years down the road the rest of society will realize it is their constitutional right, notice I don't say religious but constitutional, to be married and have families. Just like people realized that African Americans and Women have just as much right as white men this will happen for the GLBT society as well. They will have their day and what a better nation we will be for it.

  • Michael
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:25 p.m.

    Consenting adults have the right to engage in relationships of their choice (even if immoral), but there is no "fundamental right" to have a government of the people sanction or approve a relationship that the majority deems immoral.

    These gay activists don't know the meaning of the word "bigot." They are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that anyone else has a reasonable and sincere opinion.

  • David
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    I am so sick of the protestors. Take your challenges up with the courts. Get off Church property and respect the wishes of the majority. It seems like you have nothing better to do with your time than harrass members of the LDS faith. It will only make the faithful LDS members grow more intolerant of your immoral lifestyle. Get a life. Furthermore, do not vandalize church property especially our temples. How would you feel if your houses and cars and reputation were marred, slandered and defiled. Pathetic.

  • Kate
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    My goodness. Yeah, let's protest one church in a different state because they asked their members to support an issue that this church believes in. Let's negate the freedom of religion. Are you going to protest at the Vatican, too? What about airing a commercial with nuns storming a gay home? I would love to seee little old ladies and some karate moves. At least it would be more true and far more entertaining than the rediculousness of tonight's protest. The only good thing I can see from tonight is freedom of speech. Too bad it will fall on ears that are listening to something much more important: the truth.

  • Blue
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    As a Californian, former Mormon and BYU alumni, I would also like to express my sincere thanks to those of you in Salt Lake City who are demonstrating on behalf of civil marriage equality for all. I am sickened by the ignorant viewpoints expressed on this web-site. I'm sorry I can't be there to join you.

  • Jon B. Holbrook
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have the right of freedom of speech and religion as does any other citizen of the United States. Any group that would try to intimidate or otherwise take away these rights because you disagree with them are, in fact, violating the very principles mentioned in the first admendment.
    Civil discourse on emotionally-charged issues should be the rule. All Churches and other civic groups both religious and secular have the right to speak out on moral issues.
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members have the right to take any legal action to protect themselves against any potential nob violence.
    Thank-You

  • Kevin
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:29 p.m.

    To all those members of the church who think the church leaders made a mistake by speaking out on this subject, it's time to separate the wheat from the tares.

  • !
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    Basically the argument "gay-rights" activists use is that homosexuality is an unalterable characteristic akin to race, hair color, etc. Where did this view come from? It came from those who have such feelings, as a way to justify them.

    But the fact remains that there is no scientific evidence supporting this. And people got along well for thousands of years understanding that guys marry girls, and girls marry guys. Perhaps homosexual feelings come more easily to some people, and maybe it's not their fault; but it is not an unalterable characteristic.

    In most Christian faiths it is generally understood that having such feelings is not a sin - it is acting upon the feelings which constitutes sin. But, again, in the Christian viewpoint, such feelings can and should be overcome. If a homosexual person really wants to change, they can. It is not unalterable.

    Identity characteristics from birth is an easy excuse to accept if you want to rationalize gay marriage. But the whole "civil rights" argument hinges on whether or not it is an alterable characteristic, choice, or decision. I believe that it is.

  • Broad Strokes
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    To Joe H 3:23

    Everybody knows half the population of California is Latino, half is Asian, and half is other.

    Enough hyperbole, and no more stupid comments.

  • Protesting Democracy
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    Let them protest. The last time there was a protest against the Church's own rights in downtown Salt Lake City that also included Frmr. Mayor Rocky Anderson (Main Street Plaza issue), the Church won it's case.

    I suspect the same will happen again. Especially as the protests catch national attention and demonstrate the gay rights activists' very own animosity toward their neighbors.

    Also, over 45% of America didn't want Obama to win, but you don't see them taking to the streets. Democracy prevailed in both cases.

  • Veritas
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the decision to become involved in a political question, it became fair game for political protest. When any church or religion takes a political position, as opposed to a religious position, it opens itself up to political protest. The Church should bear this in mind the next time it gets involved in political issues.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m.

    This is the second time in my life where I have seen the Church express its desire to tell its members how to respond in a political situation. The Church made its self very vocal and opened themselves up to this. If you continually try to keep people down, they will eventually feel the need to respond. This community is expressing their voice in the only way they know how.

    I know people with the Church have been concerned and divided over this issue. Not all Mormons are hateful or fearful of homosexuals. I am sorry that the religion of my birth responded in this way. I hope that the protest is peaceful. The message will be much more successful if it is.

    And, just so you know, this vote on Prop 8 was close. Not a mandate, but a sign that things are changing. Inclusiveness and tolerance are not bad things.
    So are love and compassion.

  • DanO
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    The Church itself might not have donated directly, but it used its vast infrastructure to mobilize others and spread misinformation. Every argument made by the Yes side was debunked by LDS lawyers themselves. The Church deserves the protests just as they did the protests back in the 1970s when they were discriminating against blacks.

  • Fred
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:31 p.m.

    Who cares if they march on Temple Square. The important thing is that the Church helped save the institution of marriage by taking away people's right to marry a consenting adult with whom they are sexually compatible.

  • Randall
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:32 p.m.

    To: Luvswomen

    I enjoy your statement that: "actions like this prove (the church) is not (the true church)".

    How quaint. I am sure that the Lord would have leaders of his true church moisten their fingers and hold them up to see which direction the winds of society were blowing. He would then direct them to change His doctrines so they were in line with what society happened to believe at the moment.

    That doesn't happen to be a church I am interested in. I'm shopping around for something that is fixed and immutable.

    And I am NOT interested in lifestyles that are fixated on morals from the sewer. I AM very tired of the gay community portraying themselves as victims. I've also had it with them trying to take over what is taught to our children in schools. I've seen what has happened in Massachusetts; it is time to stop the gay's blatant attempt to take over our rights as parents.

    Go ahead and have your protest at Temple Square. You are only trying to assuage your collective guilt.

  • Tasha
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:33 p.m.

    I just want to say that the reason the assembly is at the LDS Church is because they donated 21 million dollars against these people. It has nothing to do with people going out of their way to go against the church. It has to do with the church going out of its way to go against them. I think its a strong union of people that will be there and I am very proud that at least the right is still there to have your voice heard. And for those posting the church has never told the members how to vote go and listen to the news! That is exactly what they did this time not only calling for the vote but for members to put in time and money into the campaign!!! Pay attention people. Get out of your sheltered lives and look around you. Preach love and follow up the preaching by the action. Taking something from the book of James but changing up a little bit, "Faith without works is like a screen door on a submarine." Spread the love by works not just talk.

  • Boyd
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:33 p.m.

    The protest, as I understand it, is more symbolic, to show that we won't simply back down after the Proposition 8 vote. Constitutional amendments can be created, but they can also be repealed. Don't expect this to end here. The next election, I won't be surprised if a new proposition shows up on the California ballot to overturn Proposition 8's amendment.

    Much like the LDS Church has conferences, organizing to promote unity, so too does the gay community. I'm going mostly because it sounds like it could be fun. I don't think it's proper to criticize a church, but they painted a target on their backs by promoting Prop 8.

    And the reason I think the LDS Church is particularly singled out is their own sordid history with America and the pursuit of non-traditional marriage.

  • Democracy VS. Equality
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:33 p.m.

    Democracy has spoken. What I can't understand is why those who are gay want to sacrifice democracy for the sake of "equality" (whatever that is).

    Denying the Church and its members the right to voice their opinion on moral issues by right of vote is unconstitutional. Democracy has spoken.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:34 p.m.

    Just like the civil rights movement, gays and lesbians will eventually get their rights, it will just take time. So I don't mind that the church spent so much money on trying to get prop 8 because in the end they will lose this "battle" and the only difference is they will be poor...and for what? So they could get the attention off of their polygamists and onto a diff group?...hmm I wonder...

    And to all you protesters.. You go! :)

  • The Shoe Doesn't Fit
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:34 p.m.

    "Tolerance" for bigotry and the denial of civil rights is NEVER justified. Should the patriots of the American Revolution have just been tolerant? Of course not. Mormons somehow think their own intolerance is justified if it is in the name of Jesus, but plead from "tolerance" from those who oppose them.

  • It's not a 'rights' issue
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:35 p.m.


    I love how the other side is trying to make this a 'civil right's' issue.

    As if being gay is something someone is born with.

  • Freedom of religion
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:35 p.m.

    Why are the gays protesting religion? Is there anyone left who thinks this isn't an attack on freedom of religion? They demand "freedom" but seek to deny it to other! There is a word that describes this kind of behavior, it starts with hypocrite and goes on from there to tyranny and anarchy.

  • Just a Suggestion
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:36 p.m.

    I would really like to know how the Gay and Lesbian Coalition contribute to society. all I ever see is a "take, take" attitude. If they would take the time to go give service to someone in need instead of protesting they would get more respect.

    Also, if they feel persecuted they should pray for those who persecute them. I think some of them say they are religious then they should use adhere to the scripture that states, "pray for those who despitefully use and persecute you."
    I you are sure that God is behind your cause you should not fear to do this.

  • sad
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:37 p.m.

    the gay community feels helpless, but they need to understand that being choosing to be gay, does not allow them to change the way God intended marriage to be. Its like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip. Its like calling trying to give birth through your nose, its just not the way it was intended...... now rights to healthcare are a different story.... now you're just protesting the wrong people....

  • Coach
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:42 p.m.

    It is interesting to me that some of the people that opposed the prop in California did so with physical attacks on women and defacing not only churches but people's cars etc. I was shocked to hear it. My own brother is gay so I have been a supporter for years of him and his rights. The protests, violence, vandalism, etc has pushed the gay movement back decades. Take a lesson from Dr King on how to change attitudes. It is not through name calling and cowardly acts. It is through example, perseverance and love.

  • i SAY
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:42 p.m.

    THE VOTE IS SPECIAL, IF A CHURCH WANTS TO STAND FOR SOMETHING THEN LET THEM...they have soldiers that have given their all so that they could vote..so follow your nose it really nose! and this one smells of counter hate on the protesters part because the VOTE IS THE VOTE. just Ask Obama now live with the vote!!

  • Question
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:42 p.m.

    To the Gay and Lesbian Community:

    I would really like to know how you Gay and Lesbian Coalition contribute to society as a group. All I ever see is a "take, take" attitude. If you would take the time to go give service to someone in need instead of protesting you would get more respect.

    Also, if you feel persecuted you should pray for those who persecute you. I think some of you say you are religious...don't you? If so, you should adhere to the scripture that states, "pray for those who despitefully use and persecute you."

    If you are sure that God is behind your cause, you should not fear to do this.

  • Newly Lost?
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:42 p.m.

    Dude, you have been lost for quite some time. Right this sinking ship? Read the bible... Lev. 20:13. This isn't a mormon doctrine, homosexuality is not a gene any more than taking a goat on a date is due to genetic predisposition. Next we're going to hear you whining about the mormons bigotry against those in love with their barnyard animals.

  • 18,000 Couples!
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:43 p.m.

    There were an estimated 18,000 married same sex couples (36,000 people) who were legally married. Now, with a stroke they are not?

    What would you do?

  • Craig
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:44 p.m.

    The right decision was made to encourage support and protection for traditional marriage. The hate that is coming out from the gay community proves that there is a different agenda that is very destructive. The LDS Church speaks highly of all people but encouraged its members to help with moral decision in protecting marriage.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:46 p.m.

    It really bothers me that the gays are being so nasty about it. It is exactly how they don't want to be treated. I don't know any LDS people who spew hatred like they are doing towards us. It was a democratic vote and they should respect that opinion just as we try to respect their lives. Also, we have given up so much. Just let us have this one last thing. We took prayer out of school, we don't teach creationism instead that man came from an ape, we don't salute the flag or say Merry Christmas anymore. Why can't they respect our opinion? Why can't they listen to our concerns? Just let us have our most sacred right saved. They can be married in the civil courts. Nobody argues that but PLEASE just let us keep our marriage definition.

  • What if Prop 8 Failed?
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:46 p.m.

    So if Prop 8 had failed - the Gay and Lesbian Community was fully expecting all 10 Million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to protest...right?

    And then on Thursday all 1 Billion Catholic Church members - would take over?

    And then by Friday - all the other Californians who voted in favor of Prop 8 - they'd take it on through the weekend?

    OF COURSE NOT! -

    How ridiculous it is to single out a group of people for acting on their freedoms and voting to preserve marriage (especially when everyone knows not all LDS folks voted in favor of the Proposition).

    Of course they wouldn't protest the African American community - 80% of which voted in favor of the proposition - they'd really be called intolerant, bigoted and racist then.

    This all sounds pretty intolerant to me. What about all the theft and vandalism of yard signs - that was all in the spirit of tolerance and love too right?


  • Tom in CA
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    Re: Joe H @3:23

    "Half of the people in CA are Mormon"????

    And you thought Palin was stupid.

  • Being from Idaho I
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    supported Proposition 8 of MY OWN FREE WILL AND CHOICE. So protesters come on down and march around my home. Looking forward to it.

  • Worship
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints said, "It is wrong to target the church and our sacred places."

    Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints targeted the heart of my home and my family when they compelled followers to send money into California's Prop. 8 battle.

    That's right. I have a home and a family and the church decided to protest it--even though I never once denigrated their institution. Not once. I see that people overwhelmingly support the Church's right to infiltrate my home and family, but are afraid that gays will storm their sacred temple? I am ashamed of you all.

  • Protest?
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:47 p.m.

    Since 72% of African Americans and 58% of hispanics voted YES on Prop 8, are they going to Protest the NAACP and ATZLAN organizations as well?

  • Sarah
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:48 p.m.

    Re: Michelle

    Thank you very much! That's all I wanted to know. I'll definitely be there.

  • John Thompson
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:49 p.m.

    I don't understand how the rights of homosexuals can be determined by a popular vote in the way we vote for highway bonds or more sidewalks. No other group in the country has to seek the approval of the electorate for their civil rights. To deny to one group the possibility of EVER marrying (and ignoring the likelihood that we will one day understand sexual orientation better than we do today) does not sound like it will stand up in court. I don't think this is over.

  • Re: Re: Rights
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:50 p.m.

    I can make ridiculous comments and comparisons too. We've had this aspect of society for thousands of years, and now gay rights activists want to change it in less than 40 years.

    Take comfort in how fast things are moving. The civil rights movement was 50 years ago, and now we've got a black man who will be president in 3 months. Do you seriously doubt that homosexual marriages will be commonplace in another decade?

  • Tammy
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:50 p.m.

    Do you know that in Victorian times people used to be jailed for choosing to be homosexual? We've come a long way since then as tolerance and acceptance of the practice are pretty commmonplace. How many TV shows or movies can you think of that involve at least one homosexual couple? However, even though homosexuality may be tolerated, that doesn't mean it should be recognized in the same way as traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

    But precendence isn't the only reason why I think it was important for the Church to get involved with the passage of Proposition 8. It's also contrary to our very beliefs as a Church and might set the precendence for other states to follow, and isn't the point of free speech to stand up for things we believe in? We may not agree with it, but at least we weren't attacking those who choose to practice it. Before yelling about the evils of bigamy, perhaps those sqwakers ought to take a close look at themselves first.

  • Sean
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:50 p.m.

    No one is pathetic, gay or straight.

    I firmly believe that one should never vote to eliminate rights solely on religious beliefs, as we all have the freedom to religious belief and should be respected for this freedom.

    The weekend before Election Day, millions received robo-calls stating how Barack Obama did not believe in gay marriage, but the robo-call failed to mention that he was against Proposition 8 as well. Some people widely believe that this robo-call significantly influenced the black population to heavily vote Yes on 8, and it can be argued that the vote may have swung the other way had this group of people known that Barack was directly against this proposition. The omission of this truth from the robo-call is as bad if not worse than a lie. The robo-calls were funded by Yes on 8 money, and over 40% of this entire campaign it came from Mormons.

    Not to mention businesses financing the No on 8 campaign were threatened with blackmail letters signed in part by the head of the Mormon religion.

    So many people everywhere believe that this religion needs to be held accountable, and I see good reason for this protest.

  • kenny
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:51 p.m.

    The battle is moving from the ballot box to the street.History seems to repeat itself.When the early saints became a strong political power in Navoo and Missouri, the non church community rose up against the saints hence the saints did in fact bring many of their problems on to themselves.I would hope that this will not happen in our days concerning Prop 8.Its one thing to be right but its another thing to be right and cause a riot.We dont know what the oposition is capable of but we will soon find out.Personally I think america is gearing up for a blood bath.Ask yourself "Am I ready to defend my beliefs with a shotgun?"Someday it will come down to that.

  • This is America
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:53 p.m.

    The Church exercised their legal right to campaign against something they saw as bad for America. They did it legally and with class. Remember this is the same country that allowed a church like the Mormon church, to be established, and last I heard, they still allow Mormon missionaries to go out and "preach".

    So why would the church want to deny these protesters their right to do the same thing. Campaign for something they believe is good for America. I just hope they do it with class, which is not what I've seen in the past. (I got an egg thrown on me walking into temple square to go to the visitor center.)

  • Hmmm. . . .
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:53 p.m.

    Wow, this sorta reminds me of when I was little and my little league team won a championship on a last second three. Legit win,but the losers couldn't handle it. On the bright side, it will be fun to see what crazy things Rocky Anderson will come up with to further delegitimize his standing in the world of rational thought. Enoy yourselves.

  • Friend of Church
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:54 p.m.

    As a person of color, I'm discussed that gays would try to equate there situation to be a " civil rights" issue. They have no clue. This a moral issue, which my good BABTIST up bringing agrees with. This is about protecting families and the proper upbringing of children, and not the protecting individuals with serious mental illness. YOu will not change anything by harrassing people, it will just make them angry and they will fight harder to defeat you. I also do not want to hear bigot, and all that nonsense. This protest is about power and nothing else. I hope it snows and snows and snows.

  • Gary
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:56 p.m.

    Gay rights activates can blame themselves for losing the Prop 8 battle. Voters, concerned for their children, saw what happened in Massachusetts when schools forced children to read pro-gay propaganda and parents could do nothing to stop it. They heard about the San Francisco kindergarten class who went on a field trip to see a lesbian wedding and the principal called it a "teachable moment". They probably even read about the California kindergarten class who were given gay pledge cards to sign. All the claims from the NO on 8 people who said this had nothing to do with schools were exposed as lies. Now everyone is witness to what happens when gay activates don't get their way in a fair election. They focus on an easy target, the LDS church, and reveal their own bigotry and intolerance.

  • Ema
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    As a married heterosexual woman, I know I would be outraged if my marriage was put up to a popular vote and then taken away. I just can't understand why so many people think it's OK to vote to take away people's rights. The majority is not always right. If it were, legal racial discrimination would still exist. And yes, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in 1967 wrote that marriage is a fundamental human right, so please don't try to tell me that marriage isn't a civil right.

  • Rights
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:57 p.m.

    This was more about MY RIGHT to have my voted counted. When the Judges THREW OUT my vote in 2000 for their agenda, they said MY VOTE DOES NOT COUNT--NO MATTER WHAT. Why vote if a judge can say "Sorry I don't agree"?

    Prop 8 WILL NOT be overturned, for to do so throws out OUR RIGHTS to elections and places OUR VOTE in the hands of judges.

    Rights? MY RIGHT TO VOTE SUPERCEDES THEIR "RIGHT" to MARRY (US Constitution Art 1, 2, 4, 6,7)

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

  • Sean
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:58 p.m.

    With respect to the voice of the people being heard, -no one- should ever vote discrimination into law or directly into the Constitution, and any time such legislation occurs, it is always declared unconstitutional, because such laws infringe on our equal and unalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, and per our fourteenth amendment to the US Constitution, no state shall "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." There are some very good reasons why we have a judicial branch in the United States, and I can't understand why some people rush to the argument that the will of the people have spoken with respect to this specific proposition when this is in fact an argument inherent in unconstitutionality and therefore invalid to our Country.

  • Cambodian Girl
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:58 p.m.

    I read this article and then I looked at the obituaries to see who died. I thought after looking at their names ...."I am so thankful they are out of this messy world and on to bigger and better things!"

    In the long run, we will all die and then what we did here on earth will stare us in the face. I hope, at least for myself, that I stood steadfast and unmovable in what was the right thing to do and not just what I wanted to do. At least my soul will be at peace.

  • keith
    Nov. 7, 2008 4:59 p.m.

    Wish I could be in Salt lake or in California to support the church and it's position but I encourage all within the vacinity to SLC to be there. It is not the people we hate but what they do that is contrary to the laws of god. We are only trying to save you from your ignorance and teach you that the way of truth and from eternal suffering for a few years of sinful pleasure. Be humble and learn to listen to the still small voice and not the screams of lucifer. Who is on the lord side who? stop kicking against the pricks.

  • tigerlily
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    the church as every right to speak out about gay marriages. we don't have to agree.

  • RE: Pete
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:01 p.m.

    If you read "Das Kapital" by Karl Marx, he said the exact same thing. Eliminate marriage and swear alligience to the state. Are you in favor of Marxism?

    What ARE they teaching in schools?

  • Ricky
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:02 p.m.

    Dear Gay Brothers & Sisters, reason LDS doctrine teaches against homosexuality because of the pre-existence where satan and his angels rebelled against Heavenly Father and 1/3 were cast out of heaven, and lost their opportunity to obtain bodies on earth that could have helped them to progress like our God the Father, but they chose evil. And you gay people are part of the 2/3 who followed Christ and received a body here on earth. we are tested by faith & obedience to all God's commandments. We are a part of God's creation to give bodies to us as a part of the plan of salvation and eternal progression. Satan & his devils are jealous and miserable because you have a body and they are excited to be around & inside you when you commit homosexual behavior. Satan fosters gay actions to attempt to destroy God's plan. Gays who feel gay are not sinners but doing the behavior is wrong. Why some born gay? we dont know, I was born disabled, I dont know but there's a purpose we have to learn to care our bodies as temples of God. Wo, wo, be unto those who disobey God!

  • WIN-WIN
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:04 p.m.

    DOUBLE WIN: I hope they DO boycott Utah--Forever!!!
    WIN 1: Victory on Prop. 8
    WIN 2: They choose to stay away.
    That's a WIN-WIN and it doesn't get any better than that!

  • Those Leaving Over This
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:05 p.m.

    To those leaving the church over this: Your testimonies obviously weren't sufficient to get you there anyway. You have just been waiting for some excuse to leave the church. Hopefully you can change that and realize the truth.

  • Its a Definition
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    The LDS church is extremely tolerant and loving of homosexuals. Prop 8 was about maintaining the definition of marriage (between a man and a woman), which has been established, accepted, and cherished for thousands of years by nearly every human that has ever lived. This is the fundamental unit of civilized society. How can a minority group expect to change such a long accepted definition and fundamental tenet of civilization?

    Homosexuals have rights through civil unionsthose were not affected by Prop 8. If the civil union rights are not sufficient, then homosexuals should focus energy on that, not re-defining marriage.

  • RE: Tasha
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:09 p.m.

    Tasha, the LDS Church did not give money to Prop 8. The members did. Conversely, LDS members also gave to the Anti-8 campaign.

    Religious organizations protesting government legislation is NOTHING new. Throughout history we have seen numerous religious organizations expressing views that would affect the morality of the people. Tasha, this is something called FREE SPEECH. The Church's did not invade civic organizations or schools to foist their views on people, not did governments invade Churches to command assent. Just because one belongs to a Church, does not mean we can not "petition the government for a redress of greivances" as stated in the 1st Amendment. The Government CAN NOT take my rights to be LDS, and as an LDS member I CAN petition the government.

    Take a civics class.

  • Texas Interested
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    If I were in Salt Lake tonight, I'd go down and stand in support of the LDS people.

    If you are in Salt Lake, go now.

  • I want my rights too
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:11 p.m.

    I am left handed, bald and over weight. God made me this way! I want special rights! If you don't pass laws that I can get special rights, I will march and carry signs around your church!

  • DanO
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:12 p.m.

    I hope the First Presidency reads the comments of its membership on these boards. That message of not being contentious is really setting in so well.

  • Annonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:12 p.m.

    The amount of ignorance in these comments is truly mind-blowing. The majority of the people who posted comments about this article have argued that it is unfair for proponents of gay marriage to target the LDS church for their support of Prop 8, because many other religions, races, etc. also worked in favor of Prop 8.

    What you all are failing to realize is that members of the LDS church contributed an estimated $20 million dollars to the Yes on 8 campaign - that is more than half of the total amount of money received by the campaign. Acegrace posted, "Are these protesters not aware that the LDS were only 1% of the population of California..." Yes, the protesters are aware that members of the LDS church are only 1% of the California population. That is precisely whey the LDS chuch is being protested against. We are angry that members of the LDS church contributed over 1/2 of the money to Yes on 8 but make up such a small percentage of Californians. When you look at the numbers and the facts, it's quite easy to see why the LDS church has become the target of gay marriage supporters.

  • Derick
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:13 p.m.

    Its a human rights issue; no one should be treated differently under the law. Thats called discrimination. NO church should function as a political action group as the mormons have done. . I wish I could come and protest!

  • kevin
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:13 p.m.

    Oh it's a choice now?

  • To "sad"
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:14 p.m.

    "God" has nothing to do with this. This is about CIVIL marriage and equality before the LAW for all citizens of the United States. To say "God intended it" is like saying Donald Duck intended it.

  • Let em Protest
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:15 p.m.

    I invite controversy. It is the BEST thing to increase membership. The true in heart will investigate, understand the promptings of the Spirit, and convert. It has happened over and over again since 1830. The more we are hated, the more we are in the public eye, the more public curiosity, the more investigation, and more people are converted.

    We saw it in the late 70's and 80's in So Cal, Nationally with the ERA controversy (similar arguements here as well) and when ever we get FREE NATIONAL PRESS.

    CHEERS TO THE PROTESTORS!!! Smile and Wave everyone

  • Boyd
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:15 p.m.

    @ It's not a 'rights' issue:

    When Mormon people look for someone to marry, this is often done within the confines of the church, is it not? A lot of Mormon people, particularly here in Utah, only want to date other Mormons.

    Isn't being LDS a choice? For further help, since being gay is apparently a choice, would you please tell us when you chose to be straight? If you chose to be LDS, and it's a choice, then choosing to be gay implies that someone had to consciously make that decision. So when did you choose? Because I know I never chose to be gay. It surprised the heck out of me, that's for sure!

  • The Church has gone to far!
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:17 p.m.

    The Church is upset? PLEASE!!!! There is a CLEAR separation of Church and State in this country. No "Faith Based Organization" that receives a "Tax Exempt" status should be making any financial contribution to any Political or Constitutional cause. Leave the financial donations to the people actually voting and not the organization that they are blindly following. I hope to god that we get back to a clear separation of church and state. Without true separations we are no different that the middle east countries whose governments will put a woman to death for getting raped and talking about it.. there is a place for Religion beliefs but when it strips right of people that dont subscribe to it.. its gone too far. Im DISAPOINTED to be a Mormon. The Church should be ashamed and Start Paying taxes just like I do if it wants to play this way.

  • We Shall Overcome
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:17 p.m.

    I love how you all are trying to make this a religious issue, citing "God's wishes' and the "prophet's teachings" bla bla bla. It is not. It is a civil rights issue. Neither God, religion, fairy tales nor mythology have anything to do with the matter.

  • March around their houses? Maybe
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    Doug,

    "There is a double-standard for gay people to participate in a free speech rally but then condemn the Church and it's members for doing the same thing by encouraging members to speak up on a matter which goes to the heart of the teachings of the Church - marriage and family."

    The Church asked us to participate in the electoral process and vote and speak out on this issue. Those who support same-sex marriage aren't asking these protesters to participate in the electoral process and speak out on the issues instead they are asking them to disrupt our right to worship, and prevent us from worshiping as we see fit. Had Prop. 8 failed the Church would never have asked members to join a protest outside of the ACLU and Churches who opposed Prop. 8.

    We respect the right of people to disagree and to peacefully participate in the political process and we would never target those who voted differently than we wanted. This is more than a double standard since we have never done anything like this to them nor would we but maybe we should reconsider that and find out where they worship and live and protest.

  • Stand in Defense
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    Yes, stand in defense of the LDS. Go downtown now and overwhelm the anti-LDS protestors with huge numbers of people, and lots of joy and happiness.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    The church is not being singled out "for speaking up." It is being blamed for the sheets of deliberate misinformation that they distributed as part of their "speaking up" and for the inflammatory untruths they spread to deliberately mislead people. This was not "speaking up." This was nothing less than an attempt to enforce LDS doctrine in the California constitution. And now they are objecting that the thousands of people whose rights they took away are objecting to it. Tough cookies. You can dish it out quite well, so be man enough to take the consequences.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:19 p.m.

    These kinds of discussions are important. And bigotry on either side is unacceptable. More empathy and understanding would serve us all well. Hateful words are not Christian in any way, whether calling gays "pathetic" or mormons "bigots". I am glad to see our democracy is still working well. Let's just keep it respectful

  • I would also support the
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:22 p.m.

    church tonight in SLC if I could. Let's show the world that right has prevailed.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:25 p.m.

    I applaude protets of organized hate.

  • Fresno California
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:32 p.m.

    We live in the United States of America where the peoples vote counts. The people of California have spoken and IT IS YES ON PROP 8. And I couldn't be more proud that it passed. I do not want my kids being taught about same sex marriage in schools. THat is something that should be taught in the individual family and not in public schools.

  • Aaron
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    The 20 million number is completely misconstrued. When people donated to Prop 8 there was no form you filled out for your religous preference. Where ever that figure is coming from is completely false.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    You can't vote on minority rights! This is a Supreme Court issue not a ballot issue! And yes, sometimes bigots are the majority.

  • To: Just a suggestion
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:34 p.m.

    As a physician (who is gay) I laugh at your presumption that gays to not contribute to society.

  • BYU
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    The stand of truth has been erected no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done

  • Fine. Next week is your turn!
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    Veritas,

    "When the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the decision to become involved in a political question, it became fair game for political protest."

    That's fine with me. Post your real name and take a public position on this political issue because then it makes you fair game for political protest.

    Any member of the Utah legislature or state, city or county government who attends this rally will find a thousand people marching around their blocks on next Friday. If they take a position on a political issue it makes them and organizations they belong to fair game including their families.


    "When any church or religion takes a political position, as opposed to a religious position, it opens itself up to political protest. The Church should bear this in mind the next time it gets involved in political issues."

    When any individual or public official takes a political position, as opposed to a personal position, they open themselves up to political protest. Voters should bear this in mind the next time they get involved in political issues because we are coming to your Churches, your places of work and your homes to protest.

  • Mister
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:36 p.m.

    Folks, The tribe has spoken.

  • The dogs bark
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:36 p.m.

    But the caravan moves on...

  • California Father
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:38 p.m.

    This would be a good time for the second coming....

  • Trevor Dowdle
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:39 p.m.

    We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creators plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
    Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
    We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society (Ensign, Nov. 1995, 102).
    My2Cents,What important reasons were given for such a stand on families? What consequences would come to pass in our society if such marriage was accepted endorsed?
    Some, however, have mistakenly asserted that churches should not ever be involved in politics when moral issues are involved. In fact, churches and religious organizations are well within their constitutional rights to speak out and be engaged in the many moral and ethical problems facing society. While the Church does not endorse candidates or platforms, it does reserve the right to speak out on important issues.

  • Which Church
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:42 p.m.

    do you all belong to. Do you belong to the one that thinks it should play the political game or do you believe this on: "Maintain Freedom of Religion
    We Latter-day Saints declare in scripture: "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed [prohibited] in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."
    (Doctrine and Covenants 134:4, 9)
    Your own doctrine speaks out against what your church is doing.

  • AMoyer
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:46 p.m.

    A lot of comments about how the people are somehow unfit to make decisions that should be left to legislators. Consider: We live in a representative democracy. Had the legislature voted no and not allowed the proposition to go to the people, opponents of Prop 8 would have said, "Your elected representative voted against this. That's who represents you, who you voted for." However, in this case, the proposition went TO THE PEOPLE. We don't need to know how the state legislature would vote in our representative democracy, because it has gone to the voters themselves. As far as this proposition is concerned, we know EXACTLY how the majority of voters feel about it, without asking their state representatives.

    Consider also that the turnout was ridiculously high, especially due to the draw of a hotly-contested presidential election. So, a large percentage of eligible voters cast their ballot for Prop 8. I would bet the by-county turnout/vote exceeded the votes in the last election for our representatives.

    I have accepted that a majority of people wanted Obama. Please accept that a majority of people want some protection for the tradition of marriage.

  • Love thy neighbor?
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:48 p.m.

    Kudos to those protesting prop 8 in Utah.

    I dont understand how Mormons can be so close-minded and so judgmental towards gay people.

  • To Anon | 5:19
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:49 p.m.

    I'm glad to hear you're not singling out the Church.

    So, I guess you must be planning some hate-filled demonstrations at the Cathedral of the Madeleine, the First Baptist Church, and the offices of the NAACP and LULAC. After all, there were many more Catholics, Evangelicals, Blacks, and Hispanics, than there were Mormons that voted against Prop 8.

  • Robert R. Weedon
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:49 p.m.

    As a native Californian, I too wish to express our gratitude to the many Saints of the LDS Church who gave treasure and time to uphold the rational and sacred institution of marriage. Sadly, for most gays and lesbians, "marriage" will not solve their problem, just as equality of a "civil union" did not satisfy their desire to be like the norm of society.One more note, if you look at the prop 8 results, it was the afro-american voter, turning out out in record numbers to vote for Obama.These folks voted, almost as a block, in favor of prop 8 to put it over the top.

    As a resident of mid-town Sacramento, I can say folks, we have two very different cultures in our land, a land where "pop culture" now even elects presidents as the office is marketed as a product such as "Rockstar"!

  • Is this the start
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:49 p.m.

    of the lds being the most hated people ..well something has to start it ..only they do have the rigth to vote and that is what is at issue here. not counter hate! Don't give up the right to vote..many lds service people died for it! And I'm for the right of all!!

  • James
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:51 p.m.

    Thank you all Californians who supported Proposition 8! While opponents of Proposition 8 are accusing the LDS church as a villain, exit polls showed that 84% of all people who attend church on a weekly basis voted for Proposition 8. Think about it. Regularly attending church members of all faiths voted to pass Proposition 8 to restore the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Demonstrators may have forgotten all that. The people of California have voted and they voted their faith rather than politics. The opposition has the moral responsibility to uphold the law.

  • Aumacoma
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:52 p.m.

    Just a note to you that support Prop 8 from a religious perspective. In the United States of America we have a constitution that keeps government out of the business of churches and churches out of the business of government (except in Utah). This ensures religious freedom and freedom from religion. Religious involvement in this matter is unconsitutional and unAmerican. This is a civil matter and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion. If any church/religion believes that marriage is between a man and a women it is your religious right to believe as such within a church but it is not the right of churches to make laws based on religious beliefs. That would be a Theocracy not a Democracy that is America.

  • Let's oppose tyranny
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:52 p.m.

    To: I would also support the,

    "church tonight in SLC if I could. Let's show the world that right has prevailed."

    We must defend our rights and stand up for ourselves and if they think they can get away with this they are wrong because there will be members there to see who speaks and next week we will be having a similar march around their places of work, their Church and their homes.

    The article states that Representatives Scott McCoy, Christine Johnson and Jackie Biskupski will attend and speak at the rally.

    If they do decide to take a public position on this issue we should plan an event for next week where we march around their homes on Friday. If the Church is protested for taking a stand as our representatives on religious and moral matters than the legislators are fair game to be protested for taking as stand as political representatives of those who disagree with us.

    Let's show our solidarity and defend our rights against those who would oppress and impose tyranny upon us.

  • Minority?
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:54 p.m.

    Isn't it the gay community and their supporters picking on the minority in this case. I think there are a lot more of them than there are Mormons in this country.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:53 p.m.

    I think the argument that, "the church should use their money on better thing like starving children in Africa, poverty...etc" is absolutely ridiculous. The church does just as much, if not more, as any humanitarian organization world wide.

    I feel that they have every right to make a stance on issues like this that affect the world because they are one of the only organizations that produces results when it comes to making the world a better place. They are the only ones who back up what they preach.

    America should be greatful that there is an organization like the LDS church that actually has a backbone and stands up for what they believe.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:53 p.m.

    Maybe if they had put in this kind of effort during the campaign, they might have won. Now they are just Johnny-come-lately. A little too late to complain.

  • Follow the money
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:54 p.m.

    Strangely enough, people keep screaming about the money, the money. The LA times tracked the money that was donated both in support and opposition of Prop. 8. Opponents gathered more money, 2.3 million dollars more, yet still lost the vote. Maybe this isn't all about who spends the most money?

  • Justin
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:55 p.m.

    I think its funny they are blaming the church for the outcome. There are not enough members in the state of California to pass something that huge.It proves that not only do the church members think that it should no become legal, but also a majority of people in California. All I have to say is have fun protesting. Its just a waste of time!!

  • TrevorDowdle
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:55 p.m.

    Mosiah 29: 25-27
    27 "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land."

    I certainly believe that the church should encourage its members to uplift and support what is good for the society as a whole, encouraging memebers to up hold these values, and share them with others. The same values that have blessed our nation our families and the world for years. Is surely not wrong.
    The acceptance of "such (just one example gay marriage) in society will surely lead to grave consequences that would hurt our family and society as a whole.
    Of course this all depends on the veracity of the Book Of Mormon. So those of you who can't believe this and are losing your testimony of the church I would encourage you to read it. It will help stay on the right path in these perilous times.


  • Re: Blue
    Nov. 7, 2008 5:56 p.m.

    Sounds like you should know better but are rationalizing your actions. It doesn't matter how loud you speak, what's right is right and what's true is true. Someday you'll meet you maker and have to explain. Re-focus on the big picture instead of a few short years here in this mortal life.

  • Outside Lookin In
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:01 p.m.

    If the comments on this board are typical of LDS membership in general, I am even more afraid of them than I was before. This kind of ignorance is downright scary in the 21st century.

  • Tax exempt status
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:01 p.m.

    I get sick of hearing folks say that the church should lose it's tax exempt status. IT'S A CHURCH!!! Churches are SUPPOSED to give direction to their members on moral issues. That's right, I said MORAL issues. If you are going to tell me that gay marriages are a "right" then the gay community is arguing that pedophiles and people who are into bestiality have the same "right". I would love for a gay person to write in here and say that I'm correct on that. Gays are saying they are born this way. Should we establish "rights" for rapists and killers? Aren't they born with the same tendencies towards their actions? It IS a moral issue. Churches are MORAL teachers, although apparently some churches encourage their members to "put their money where their mouth is." If my church loses it's tax status for fighting this gross practice, then I'm ALL FOR IT! I would be happy to pay more in donations and contributions to fight against these kind of issues to keep my children away from them. They are thrown into my kids faces at their young age as it is. I give thanks to a church with standards.

  • All in
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:05 p.m.

    Yeah, I need my rights to. I believe I should be able to legally marry more than one woman. Not only that, I believe I should be able to marry underage girls too. You are denying my rights if you don't let me! Oh and why don't we legalize my cocaine habit too. So quit discriminating against me.

  • Freedom of speech not a statute
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:06 p.m.

    Anonymous,

    "You can't vote on minority rights! This is a Supreme Court issue not a ballot issue!

    James Madison, a Founding Father, said:

    1) "The will of the nation being omnipotent for right, is so for wrong also; and the will of the nation being in the majority, the minority must submit to that danger of oppression as an evil infinitely less than the danger to the whole nation from a will independent of it."

    Thomas Jefferson said,

    1) "[Bear] always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law."

    2) "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong."

    3) "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."

    This isn't a Supreme Court issue nor are your rights violated. Rights aren't granted or taken away by the government. Freedom of speech isn't a statute passed by majority unlike marriage so the latter isn't a right.

  • Vern
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:07 p.m.

    Someone said a while ago: "The moral majority is neither. . ." This makes you wonder - pretty soon, will we be the minority? Then what kind of protection could we count on from on high. . ?

  • shawilli
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:07 p.m.

    I find it interesting that there are some 750,000 LDS members in California and some 35 million non mormons in California. The LDS church does not have enough people to have pushed prop 8 through just by themselves, it seems clear to me that more than just the LDS church members had a hand in getting prop 8 passed. I feel that if the people of California had wanted to defeat prop 8 they had more than enough money and votes to do so, but they did not defeat it, they passed it instead. I think that is is clear that the majority have spoken and that the Supreme Court of California should simply let stand the "will of the people" and let it now become law. I am sad that the LDS church has become a target of those who have decided to protest the peoples vote.
    Shaun Williams

  • 801
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:08 p.m.

    This looks like a test to sort the wheat from the tares from inside the church.

    Those familiar with scriptural precedence will know there are many scenarios just like this. Things will get dark for a time but the other side always loses if we stay faithful.

    Look up the Israeli 6-day war. Faithful should not fear being outnumbered.

  • Yes on 8 in Cali
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:09 p.m.

    Where are they going next? To Oakland and Watts to protest the Black communities for voting Yes on 8? To the Vatican to protest the Catholics? Give me a break! These people play the victim really well, but they are vicious. They don't hesitate to use violence, flip their middle finger, cuss at you, and threaten to burn your churches down if one doesn't accept their despicable life style.

  • ah, no
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:10 p.m.

    That's not "standing up for yourselves," that's singling out on church to spew hatred at, in a spoiled brat attitude about not having enough votes on "your" side. Very sore losers, very bad behavior. How can they expect to be taken seriously when they are so nasty to people?????

  • disgusted...
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:11 p.m.

    WHERE ARE THE CATHOLICS, EVANGELICALS, AND OTHER "CHRISTIANS" WHO SHARE OUR MORALS AND BELIEFS WHEN IT COMES TO MARRIAGE AND FAMILIES???
    oh, that's right, hiding in a hole because it isn't POPULAR right now to stand up for what you believe in...
    And THEY doubt WE are christians!!!

  • If I Only Had a Brain
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:13 p.m.

    You Mormons remind me of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, clicking her shoes together and repeating ad nauseum "I want to go home." Your "prophet" is just the same as the Wizard too, now that I think of it.

  • re: ashamed to be a mormon
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:14 p.m.

    I understand where you are coming from, but you must realize that if gay marriage becomes legal and recognized by the state, then anyone who does not believe in or accepts gay marriage will therefore be punished. The main reasons why the Church fought for this was to protect the religious freedoms of those who do not believe in gay marriage. The Church has stated that they support the rights of gay couples. Gay couples should get all of the legal rights that straight couples receive. But what this essentially comes down to is that the liberal gay community wants to have their practices accepted by everyone, and this is not going to happen. So, long live democracy and the power of the vote!!

  • To Love thy Neighbor | 5:48
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:16 p.m.

    I guess the comedy of your judgmental rant against judgmentalism is lost on you.

    But it is funny to the rest of us.

  • victory
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:18 p.m.

    What an amazing victory for the good of society!! I can't believe that they are trying to compare this to the social rights movement of the 1960s and 1970s. Being gay is not the same as being a woman or being African American. One must choose to be gay (contrary to what any liberal gay person would tell you.) It is the same as someone who must choose to be an alcoholic, or a drug user, or a smoker. Just because you have the temptation to be gay doesn't mean that you have to act out on those temptations.

    The statistic that 40 states have bans on gay marriage now was very encouraging. FAMILY VALUES!!!

  • RM
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    I once attended an open house before a temple dedication on a very cold, blustry day. There were protestors marching outside carrying signs and handing out literature. A recent convert took several cups of hot chocolate and gave it to the protestors because he felt sorry for them that it was so cold and miserable outside. I thought what a act of christian charity! He didn't argue with them or debate them, just gave them hot chocolate.

  • You demonstrate true ignorance
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:21 p.m.

    Which Church,

    "Your own doctrine speaks out against what your church is doing."

    It's no wonder you think marriage is a civil right if you read the Constitution the same way you read this scripture. It doesn't say what you want it to say. Here's why:

    This scripture states that it is unjust to "mingle religious influence" with "civil government" where "one religious society is fostered" and another is "proscribed in its SPIRITUAL PRIVILEGES."

    Separate from that is: "and the INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS of its members, as citizens, denied." Marriage is not a right since rights can't be granted or taken away by Government and marriage was granted by government.

    Freedom of speech, religion, and right to peacefully assemble were not granted by the government but are "enumerated." These rights also are INDIVIDUAL and not collective. Your right to freedom of speech does not mean the government has to print or publish your opinions nor allow you to assemble in Congress.

    Our religious opinions don't give us the right to

    It saying "unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others" means individuals don't have the right to deny freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etc.

  • marcus0263
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:22 p.m.

    We do not believe it just to amingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
    (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9)

    Sad day for the Church to be so hypocritical

  • re: Derick
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:24 p.m.

    The LDS Church, and every other church for that matter, has every right to support, oppose, or fight for any proposed law that may inhibit the ability of its members to practice their religion. The LDS church never comes out for or against politicians. They only focus on the issues that will effect society, and when they see the need to fight for what is morally correct they do with all the boldness and tenacity that they can muster. And if you don't like it, too bad. It is their constitutional right to voice their opinion. It is also the constitutional right of those protesters to go down there and stomp around in the cold and voice their opinion. And it was the constitutional right for the majority of Californian voters to vote for and support the traditional form of marriage (for the 2nd time). I love America, because no where else could people voice their opinions so freely!!

  • Bodymek
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    Thank GOD you fled persecution in OH and KS so that you could come here and deny the rights of others. How DARE you!! It is NONE of your business who anyone marries but theirs. As long as those being married are two adults of sound mind you have no business whatsoever telling them what they may do. It is no more my right to tell you how you may practice your religion than it is for you to tell me who I can marry. This is coming from a straight man by the way. You preach acceptance. So accept. You say you don't judge others. This sounds a lot like a judgement to me. Pick a side and stop crossing the line. These marriages will hurt no one. When will you ever learn that the only one you have control over is you. No one else, and until you learn that all this world will have is strife. Just like you had in Ohio. Joseph Smith being murdered didn't stop your relion. Stopping gays from marrying won't stop the inevitable...so stop trying to fight it. It's against your religion to do so in the first place!

  • Jazz fan in SoCal
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:26 p.m.

    Why are only mormons being attacked. Could it be SATAN.

  • If you say so
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:28 p.m.

    "The LDS church is extremely tolerant and loving of homosexuals."

    Which is easily seen by all of the gay rights now available in Utah..........

  • California Girl
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:30 p.m.

    I live in Orange County California. Plenty of non-mormons supported Prop 8. My Seventh Day Adventist, Methodist, Lutheran, Agnostic, Presbyterian, Baptist & Catholic friends supported this. This is about the People of California saying no to the crazy activist judges. Get Real!

  • To the tyrant who hates freedom
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:32 p.m.

    Aumacoma,

    "Just a note to you that support Prop 8 from a religious perspective. In the United States of America we have a constitution that keeps government out of the business of churches and churches out of the business of government (except in Utah)."

    The U.S. Constitution doesn't prevent a Church from participating in the making of laws that they have to obey and live under also. It prevents them from supporting or endorsing candidates yet we recognize that they have a say on our laws since they have to obey and live under them.

    That's a basic principle of democracy and no idea whether religious, scientific or just plain stupid is excluded from the public discussion.

    "Religious involvement in this matter is unconsitutional and unAmerican. This is a civil matter and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion."

    Churches must obey the law but you forbid them to participate in the government of the U.S but your organizations can do so? That's tyranny!

    "That would be a Theocracy not a Democracy that is America."

    No, that would be if the Church was the government but they are members of this country and have equal rights with your organizations.

  • get a grip
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:33 p.m.

    If you want to see hate speech go to an gay website. They are full of hate speech towards the LDS church. Where is the ACLU when you need them?

    Remember teachers unions contributed to No on 8, nearly a million dollars,these are the people who teach your kids.

    When the courts take this back, not one dime of taxpayer money should be used to fund the homosexuals cause, this is your money. From the arguments here that would be the state fighting against religion and that is unconstitutional.

    The gay movement wants to hijack one of the most sacred blessings a latter-day saint has, that of marriage, and redefine it with what many view as one of the most vial of all human behaviors of homosexual acts. No wonder the LDS are taking a stand. It is a position against the act not the person.

    The track record is clear give the gay activists and inch and they will take a mile, don't open a hole in the wall.

  • Tolerance vs Acceptance
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:34 p.m.

    We will tolerate the gay community, tolerate their attacks against organized religions but we will not accept it.

  • U Made the Hysteria now Deal
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:37 p.m.

    Realy now? The church whipped up the hysteria. Now the chuch has to take some responsibility for this hysteria they caused.
    So what is the next step? Perhaps an economic boycott is in order. SKI TAHOE!

  • Sad news for prop 8 supporters
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:40 p.m.

    It's not over folks. The ACLU and others contend that California's ballot cannot be used to undermine one group's access to rights enjoyed by other citizens.

    They argue that initiatives that make "fundamental" changes to core principles of the state constitution must first be approved by the state Legislature, then sent to voters for passage.

    Take off your party hats. It's too early to begin celebrating your victory for Proposition 8.

  • funny.....
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:43 p.m.

    Could it be SATAN. But true.

  • Re: Economic boycott
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:44 p.m.

    That is funny! You lost the election initiative and you think there are people who will not come to Utah to ski because of it! Probably just the opposite will happen.

  • To Bodymek | 6:26
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:46 p.m.

    How DARE YOU discriminate against me because I'm not an adult. Or of sound mind. How DARE YOU! It's NONE of your business who anyone marries. So don't try to use your religion on me and my goat.

    How DARE YOU!

  • Rights cannot be granted/denied
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:47 p.m.

    All in,

    "Yeah, I need my rights to. I believe I should be able to legally marry more than one woman. Not only that, I believe I should be able to marry underage girls too. You are denying my rights if you don't let me!"

    They want to redefine marriage to include one person and another regardless of gender but they also would not re-define it to include others who aren't gay or lesbian. As it now stands anyone regardless of their race, gender or sexual orientation can enter into a legal marriage as its currently defined by those who are responsible for its creation, the majority.

    "Oh and why don't we legalize my cocaine habit too. So quit discriminating against me."

    This is a different issue. If we chose to make their relationships illegal we would violate their rights. Refusing to recognize their choice and permit them to enter into the legal institution of marriage when they don't meet the definition isn't discrimination because they can always choose to marry a person of the opposite sex and we wouldn't care whether they are gay or not.

    Let's simplify to freedom of speech. Does government have to publish their speech?

  • Boycott
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:49 p.m.

    Money talks....

    More than half the Yes on Prop 8 money came from LDS people--at the direction of Salt Lake City.

    So, boycott the Sundance Film Festival and the ski resorts....That is a lawful response consistent with the First Amendment....

  • Re: True ignorance
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:49 p.m.

    It is funny that when people have a difference in oppinion or if they call something out as confusing, they are all of a sudden...IGNORANT. Homosexuals rights as CITIZENS of our country is being infringed upon by a small group of people who believe they have SPIRITUAL PRIVILEGES.

    "Marriage is not a right since rights can't be granted or taken away by Government and marriage was granted by government." I like this quote alot. Marriage was granted by government and it cannot therefore be taken away...is what you are saying. The courts that overturned this ruling previously were established from.....guess what our government. Our government said that not allowing gays to get married whas against their GOD given rights. This why YES on 8 really doesn't matter in the long run, because the Supreme Court will eventually rule in favor of gay marriage. What would of happened if courts left the rights of blacks in the hands of the majority? They would still be eating in black only diners and walking on the other side of the street. Sometimes it takes someone wiser than the majority to do what is right.



  • Not true
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:50 p.m.

    State recognition of same-sex marriage in no way requires a church or religious institution to recognize or even perform such ceremonies. Legalizing same-sex marriage in California never would never require the LDS church to perform same-sex marriages in its temples against its religious principals - just as Catholic priests never have been required to marry persons who are divorced and Orthodox rabbis have never been compelled to perform interfaith marriages.

  • Right on
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:52 p.m.

    When the voice of the people speaks, let's by all means ignore and try to silence it. Voice of the people? What is this? A friggin' democracy!

  • njp
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:52 p.m.

    It's great to be LDS!!

  • "We the People" have spoken
    Nov. 7, 2008 6:59 p.m.

    marcus0263,

    "We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.
    (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9)

    Sad day for the Church to be so hypocritical."

    See my post at 6:21 pm for a response to this false claim. This scripture does not say what you want it to. It isn't hypocritical since the scripture simply doesn't apply here. Marriage is not a right and can not be granted or denied by the government.

    The government grants legal marriage and can define it as they see fit. The majority, as the government, does not have to recognize your marriage nor does it have to recognize or publish your personal opinions in any official government document.

    It doesn't violate your freedom of speech for the government to publish some over others. A majority of Congress even has the authority to expel members of Congress. Because the majority wants to protect the right of minorities it imposed a 2/3rd's vote on itself.

    You cross the line. The majority agreed not to harm you if we get to govern.

  • Ezra Brown
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:00 p.m.

    The comments here are caustic, cynical and rude. So much nastiness expressed by supposed Christians. Its embarrassing to know that fellow Mormons think and express such deeply hate filled rhetoric toward Gods children who dont think like them. Its like all the Mormons in Salt Lake have been listening to Rush Limbaugh and have become little robots who mimic his foul tone. You sound just like him. What has happened to our church? Where is the Christ-like love toward your brothers and sisters in the community, gay or straight? Im not for gay marriages either, but this outpouring of hatred is embarrassing. Utah Mormons, you keep getting more and more isolated and weird.

  • to get a grip:
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:03 p.m.

    There needs to be one clarification of your statement: "Give an inch to gays and they will take a mile" should be stated: "Give an inch to gays and they will take the circumference of the earth and destroy her in the process."

  • DJ Mills
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:06 p.m.

    Doesn't it sound just like when the legions of hell appeared to Heber C. Kimball's missionary group in England? What else would anybody expect to happen?

  • Glad to be me
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:07 p.m.

    I'm just curious how these lovers of their own kind in the rainbow world would feel about the 98% of the adults in the United States having Heterosexual Pride Day and Month and maybe we too could go flaunt our ungayness and show our love for our partners the same way. Maybe we could all go parade around their places of meeting and worship and prevent them from having their privacy and being able to worship or be themselves. What do think?
    All you hypocrites in the G/L communities, keep it indoors, private and out of my society! Go contribute to society by ending poverty and starvation, spreading the words of hope and opportunity, but for the love of God, stop playing the victim! You are gay. Ok, we get it, But at least 52% of Californians don't think you need to ever show you gayness in public or have rights to the sanctity and blessings of marriage like those who can procreate naturally and not distort their progeny.
    Thank goodness for the LDS Church, Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Muslims and all others who get it. Prop 8 passed. MOVE ON!

  • I'm Betting on the Fat Lady
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:12 p.m.

    Forget what your prophet and your Jesus say. It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. And that fat lady is a lesbian who is just starting to clear her throat.

  • CaliforniaVoters
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:14 p.m.

    Um I believe it was the California voters who turned down propisition 8 for the second time!!! I think the thousands would be better off protesting against those pesky california voters who turn down gay marriage every time.

  • If you continue its a Revolution
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:15 p.m.

    Sad news for prop 8 supporters,

    "It's not over folks. The ACLU and others contend that California's ballot cannot be used to undermine one group's access to rights enjoyed by other citizens."

    A revision is different from an amendment in that it would revise the entire constitution and restructure its government. A revision must change, not add to, the Constitution which means that gay marriage must be explicitly granted in the Constitution.

    "They argue that initiatives that make "fundamental" changes to core principles of the state constitution must first be approved by the state Legislature, then sent to voters for passage."

    Who decides what is a core principle? It seems to me that their argument is that they decide. Marriage is not independent of the majority. It is a institution that the majority created. It is not the same as our other rights.

    You have no more right to enter into legal marriage and compel the government to grant you a license to get married than you do to make the majority publish your opinion in official government documents.

    "It's too early to begin celebrating your victory for Proposition 8."

    I doubt the tyrants will stop trying to make laws.

  • Wrong Place
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:15 p.m.

    Should be protesting the NAACP, and democrat HQ. A huge number of blacks showed up to vote for obama in California, and exit polls show 70% of them voted for the ban. Hispanic catholics also helped push the vote over the top. These are pretty traditional values groups of people still. Unintended consequences they call it. Why is it the left only like democracy when they win? Lose and it's straight to the courts, judges via the ACLU. To hell with the people's vote!

  • KP
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:16 p.m.

    Mr. Whipple--When and where will you be protesting the Catholic church and their involvement in support of Prop 8? As the smoke clears, it is clear that the gay/lesbian community does indeed have an agenda. To all of you LDS members, keep in mind that it was over 10 years ago that the prophet, his counselors and the apostles issued a proclamation to the world on marriage and fmaily. How many of you have received a testimony of the church, made your covenants, raised your hand in support/sustaining the leadership of the church, take the sacrament each week and now claim that the church is wrong? We know who is being deceived, don't we? We are also blessed to know what the outcome will eventually be. Choose your side.

  • to BODYMEC
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:16 p.m.

    "It is NONE of your business who anyone marries but theirs. As long as those being married are two adults of sound mind you have no business whatsoever telling them what they may do"
    Who are you to say that marriage has to be between TWO adults...
    Polygamy never hurt anyone (I'm playing devil's advocate here...)
    That being said...who are you to tell me I can't do meth, cocaine, or heroin...Why can't young adults drink alcohol until they are 21...why can I only drive 65 (or in Utah that's 76) miles per hour...
    WHY HAVE ANY RULES AT ALL? Who are you to tell me what to do?

  • RosaMaria
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:17 p.m.

    As member of the Church we need to be civilized. If we go there mantain the calm. Do not get involved with the gay and their rethoric.

  • Give me a break!
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:18 p.m.

    Gay people quit trying to blame your sins and unhappeness on the LDS Church and try not to be such bigots. If you don't like Utah, MOVE! By, By! Have a nice life. By.......

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:18 p.m.

    To Facts,
    Living in southern California does not give you knowledge of everything. The Church never encoraged members outside of California to participate in this battle, only inside of California.
    Some members outside chose to participate, but the letters were only read in Sacrament meeting in California.
    At least hear in Michigan we were never urged through Church channels to participate with Proposition 8.

  • hum
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:20 p.m.

    This is actually amazing. Never in the church history has its own members demonstrated at Temple Square to this degree and intensity. This is actually historic.

  • I'm ashamed
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:22 p.m.

    I am a CA member of the LDS church who supports the precepts of democracy and protesting is one of those tenets. I may not always agree with the cause but I agree with the right to voice your opinion

    Many of the posts on this article are from members of my Church voicing their opinions about gays and the protesters and I am ashamed to associate myself with those members. I love the Church but the general disdain for others demonstrated by so many of us on this post is abhorrent.

    It's a sad day when members of our Church look down on others who are voicing what they believe to be an injustice and we turn a cold shoulder. Irrespective of their cause, we ought to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Our members have left a black eye on the face of our Church.

  • Gay can drink from same fountain
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:23 p.m.

    To: "Re: True ignorance,"

    "Homosexuals rights as CITIZENS of our country is being infringed upon by a small group of people who believe they have SPIRITUAL PRIVILEGES."

    If you remove marriage from the equation and use freedom of speech as the guide you recognize how ridiculous your claims are. But I guess that the government is required to publish your opinions instead of just not violating your right to do so yourself.

    "What would of happened if courts left the rights of blacks in the hands of the majority? They would still be eating in black only diners and walking on the other side of the street. Sometimes it takes someone wiser than the majority."

    Then the majority doesn't make law and we don't even need to vote. We can just let the Courts pass all of our laws since only those they approve of become the law since they are the lawmakers who want to deceive us into thinking that our vote actually matters and that when we go to the ballot we have a say.

    This has nothing to do with blacks and it is insulting to us to suggest otherwise since none of your rights are violated.

  • anne
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:23 p.m.

    You say we made the hysteria now deal?

    Is this another example of something you were born to?

    Someone/something made you do it? You have no control over your hysteria? You are not capable of exhibiting adult behaviour?

    I am assuming you are adults. Right? Aren't you responsible for your own behaviour?

    You can't be responsible for a black skin. Your behaviour will never change your skin color. And why should it? Skin color has no behavioural aspect.
    If you are truly born homosexual it does not mean you have to live a gay lifestyle. We all have our own weaknesses. We are adults and must learn to deal with those. Not give in to them because we were 'born that way'.
    If members of the church behave in a way that is violent, insulting, misleading for real, then it has nothing to do with the church. It is their individual choice to behave that way. The church has asked us to behave civiley etc. Most of us will. Some may not.
    Can you say the same? I hope so. Let's find common ground. Do not know what that might be but it is out there.
    Peace.

  • Bayou Vol
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:23 p.m.

    Section 501 of the tax code states that the LDS church can spend $225,000 plus 5% of the tithing (and other donations) they receive over $1,500,000. Considering the amount they receive in tithing alone, I am sure that they did not come close to approaching the limit. It sounds to me like what we have is just a bunch of sore losers who can't or chose not to interpret the law. sec 501(H)

    The limits in 501 (c) say "except as provided in sec. H"

  • Oh no!!!
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:25 p.m.

    Prop 8 passes due to a significant effort from the members of the LDS faith. As already stated, many, many other religious, civic, and social groups contributed as well. But the LDS church is singled out. It really is almost funny, and frankly, I don't think it is at all surprising to the members of the church. We get it...you don't like us. That's OK. You didn't really like us before Prop 8 passed, did you?

    The GLT movement is now considering a boycott of Utah. What will we possibly do without the estimated $6B? You know what? Please follow through with your threats to boycott Utah. Don't come fill our ski resorts, our restaurants, our hotels, our members-only clubs that you love to mock. We will be fine without your money and your influence, thank you.

    For those who adhere to the belief in modern-day prophets and ongoing revelation, this sort of behavior is not one bit surprising. We will continue to watch with a steadfast hope.

  • Courts delegate lawmaking to us
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:29 p.m.

    Ezra Brown,

    "The comments here are caustic, cynical and rude. So much nastiness expressed by supposed Christians. Its embarrassing to know that fellow Mormons think and express such deeply hate filled rhetoric toward Gods children who dont think like them."

    I can't speak for anyone else but I have had it with being called names because I want my votes to count and to have a say and not be told "This door is wide open. And it is here to stay whether you like it or not" with an arrogant smirk that these tyrants often find humorous.

    This isn't about their rights because we don't want to violate their rights but their hateful actions are offensive to those of us who care about our right to vote and who think that when we vote it should actually matter. This is a stupid game and the majority doesn't make law and I'm never voting again. I'm done with a system that allows Courts to delegate their authority to make laws to voters and their representatives until they decide to take it back up and nullify those laws they don't agree with.

    Why not just let them do it all.

  • Jeremyinitalia
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:31 p.m.

    No change in rights..the civil rights argument is false:

    Section 297.5 of the California Family Code reads:
    297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same
    rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
    responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
    derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,
    government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
    of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.

  • Joseph McCarthy
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:33 p.m.

    Let's purge California, and then the United States, of all homophobes!!! Let's track down every single person who donated time and/or money to the 'Yes on 8' campaign!! Let's riot and block places of worship that supported this vile, intolorant legislation!!

    Who will join me in my witch hunt against the majority who selfishly wants to retain their rights??! How dare they engage in the Democratic process and pass such intolorant legislation!! Do the homophobes honestly think this is a free country or something?

    Target, track, attack! KILL!!!!!

    Don't forget your torches and pitch-forks! Guns and explosives would ceartainly help! With all those who oppose the gay minority thrusting its agenda upon the majority and forcing all of society to conform killed, we, the gay rights activists, can hypocriticaly draft another amandment to overthrough Prop 8. Then we can, hypocriticaly, can take advantage of the democratic process with none to oppose us!!

  • Vote?
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:33 p.m.

    Vote? What is a vote? I thought it was the right to represent my views as to how my society and its governance ought to proceed. I thought the majority ruled in a republic democracy such as the United States. Hum, rioting against the majority vote. Oh-Oh-No! Ouch,Bam, Oops- sorry, I forgot, I don't have any rights unless they are monitored and approved by such minority violent groups as gays and lesbians.

  • rjf
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:33 p.m.

    There California is about 2% residents of members lds or 750,000. But Residents of African American are more than members lds as about 2,269,200. Why angry protesters stood front of LA Temple. They are blame Mormon or/and other Religions for everything!

  • boycott?
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:35 p.m.

    PLEASE boycott sundance
    Please boycott our ski resorts
    then WE can go!!!

  • Robert Johnson
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:35 p.m.

    The mormon church help fund a campaign based on lies and deceit.

    I hope all the mormons who contributed are proud that their money promulgated blatant lies. I know that Christ would be proud that a people who claim to take his name engaged in such a deceptive and despicable campaign.

  • Watcher
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:37 p.m.

    Job 12: 23 "He makes nations great, and destroys them;He enlarges nations, and guides them.
    24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness."

    And what a state of confusion California is sinking into! The smartest statement I have seen
    by anyone on these forums was from a person who
    said he is training to be a divorce lawyer in California - specializing in gay divorce. He
    expects to make a lot of money.
    God's message is written in nature. Homosexuality
    is anti-nature. Our nation used to keep our most
    precious possession (the Bible) with us always. Then
    we started going after "things" and have left our
    Bible somewhere and forgotten it. God calls us
    back and invites us to seek His Word, and then
    He will give us life abundant.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

  • Aaron
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:37 p.m.

    Mormon = Hate

  • aj
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:39 p.m.

    Cecil B. DeMille once said, "You can break yourself against the Ten Commandments, but you cannot break the Commandments."

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:40 p.m.

    I say do not bother to protest the legislators, work to get them defeated in the next election, but protesting at their homes will do no good.
    I am just wondering if the Utah Democrat Party still thinks it is on the verge of a come back. WIth three of its elected members joining a protest against the LDS Church it does not seem to be working on its get the LDS in line with us strategy.

  • Boycott
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:41 p.m.

    To 7:25 p.m.:

    Utah values stay in Utah; California values stay in California.....California money goes somewhere outside of Utah....Branding of Utah as very intolerant and with a busybody obsession with what others do.....Make Utah very unhip and uncool....Go to Vail, stay in California....

  • Just a matter of time
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:45 p.m.

    Pro-gay judges will fill the courts of our land and they will rule against your Church for "discrimination". You "religious nuts" will lose your freedom of religion! Doesn't matter what the voters say with their intitiatives. Judges who legislate from the benches are running this country now and in the future.You will be forced to preform same sex marriages or go extinct! Other more "enlightend" churches have already caught on. When will you?

  • Maria Sanchez
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:45 p.m.

    I'm a Mormon and grateful that my Church would stand up for marriage as a sacred institution between a man and a woman. It strikes me funny that the gay community are beating their chests trying to make a lot of noise. I was proud to have people of all faiths join in on this issue. It wasn't just Mormons. Anyway, the protests really weren't that substantive. I saw the LA protests. The news reported anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000. Laughable. By my own estimate they had about 800 at the height of their protest. I would think they could do better than that. I actually like the attention the church is getting. I think it unifies the decent people of the world. So a message to the California and Utah protesters - can you get more people out please so our church will get more media attention. Our young missionaries could use the help.

  • If our Church
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:46 p.m.

    is made up of such bigotry, I wonder if it really is the true church? My testimony has always been about how God loves each of us and how we are all part of His family. As our Church as shown such disdane for part of Gods creation, I am sure that many believers are going to move on and worship somewhere else. I for one will be asking for my name and my families names to be taken off of the official records, because I want nothing to do with an organization who deals in hate.

  • Robert
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:46 p.m.

    Please read the Proclamation on the Family. We believe it IS from JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.

  • MaKayla
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:49 p.m.

    MaKayla, would you marry me?

  • Re: aaron
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:50 p.m.

    go down to watch the protestors a while, you will see who the real haters are!

  • LII
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:50 p.m.

    So much is said about "rights". Aren't people with same-gender attraction entitled to marry someone of the opposite gender? Aren't people with opposite-gender attraction prohibited from legally marrying someone of the same gender? Of course, the argument that people with same-gender attraction should be granted civil rights class status has been repeated so often that many believe it's true. But that is still a stretch for most people. We expect people with other compulsions (tendency toward pedophilia, for example) to control their urges. Why shouldn't people with same-gender attraction be expected to exercise restraint? I believe that what this really boils down to is that some people want to somehow legitimize wrong behavior by forcing the rest of us to enshrine it into (marriage) law. Even if that happens, such behavior will still be wrong. As President Kimball once said (paraphrasing), "Even if the whole world believed that homosexual relations were right, it would still be wrong."

  • Will defend my freedom
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:51 p.m.

    Robert Johnson,

    "The mormon church help fund a campaign based on lies and deceit."

    Kind of like the video of Mormon missionaries going into a gay couples house, confiscating their rings and tearing up their marriage certificate. Give me one single incident that this occurred or prove to everyone that those who support same-sex marriage are liars.

    "I hope all the mormons who contributed are proud that their money promulgated blatant lies. I know that Christ would be proud that a people who claim to take his name engaged in such a deceptive and despicable campaign."

    I'm sure he would be proud of you calling us liars for voting and for taking part in the political arena. I'm sure that is exactly what he would do. I'm also sure he would to to places of worship and terrorize those who want to worship in peace like the tyrants did tonight in Salt Lake City and the other day in Los Angeles.

    I hope you are happy with yourself because its obvious that you don't know any shame and don't have a problem using Christ as a weapon against all who defy your tyranny. Give us liberty or give us death.

  • Shaun
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:51 p.m.

    TO EVERYONE MAD AT US MORMONS:

    The more you hate and persecute us for doing what is right and legal under the Constitution, the more we're going to grow in numbers and strength and LOVE towards you!

    You oppose yourselves and know it not.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:52 p.m.

    To the 7:20 poster,
    You seem to be ignorant of Sonia Johnson and the pro-ERA protestors, as well as the protests for Thomas Murphy.
    There is nothing new here, there are many past protests. The rhetoric of the people attacking the church on Prop 8 can be traced through a long history of vitriol in anti-Mormon website.
    I wish we would be more civil in our statements. However, when saying "homosexuality is a sin" gets you denounced as uncivil, it becomes hard to speak the truth and still be civil.

  • Ryan
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:53 p.m.

    Hate = Mormon + Ignorance / False Teachings

  • John
    Nov. 7, 2008 7:54 p.m.

    Homosexual=Intolerant

  • bodymek
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:00 p.m.

    I Want My Rights Too:


    They're not special rights. They're equal rights. Read a book.

  • Boycotting Utah? from TX
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:03 p.m.

    Let's see- we are having a economic downturn. Most people will stay home or in their community instead of traveling. Oh man oh man! Utahans, you have the slopes, the restauarants, the concerts, games, and all of the beauty of the Rockies! Oh Baby Cakes, are you going to have a banner year of money making and enjoyment like no where else. I am sooo envious. And the public areas will be filled with good people of sound values. Oh please- please can I come and partake of your miserable existance without the gay pride and elistist boycotting you. We will "suffer" together on the slopes in white soft powder.

  • Clark Roger Larsen
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:04 p.m.

    I'm looking at Aaron's comment and wondering to myself, "Has he ever met me? Has he ever met my wife or my parents or my siblings?"

    Isn't tolerance and understanding supposed to be a two-way street? Or is that not politically correct? Isn't ignorance something any person can be guilty of, or is it okay for some people to be ignorant, based on what is and isn't politcally correct?

    Aaron, If you were my co-worker or neighbor, I would want to go to know you. I would want to be your friend, and even if you didn't think much of my religion, that's okay. Because true understanding and love comes from reaching out to those different from yourself.

    We may disagree about same-sex marriage, Aaron. But I think we can agree that mutual respect and understanding is something everyone must strive towards, while ignorance must ALWAYS be shunned.

    I pray that all protests, either for or against Prop 8, can be preaceful, orderly, and give people the chance to ask themselves, "What can I do to better reach out, in love and understanding, to those who diagree with me?"

  • Law of Chastity
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:07 p.m.

    Do you know that if people would live the law of chastity, there would be no STD's, almost no poverty, and very little crime? Why don't we all just obey God and save ourselves and others so much misery? If I(the weakest of all who can be called saints) can do it, so can you! Our real enemy is disobedience, not each other.

  • To protesters and LDS members
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:09 p.m.

    To those protesting and supporting gay marriage: The LDS church and other religious entities are speaking out according to their beliefs in what they feel is moral and just for society and before God. They are not targeting the value or worth of a human life, as was the case during the civil right movement. They have repeatedly stated that we are to love and honor every person as a human being. They are speaking out against an issue that they feel is based on morality, not on humanity.

    To the members (not leaders) of the LDS church (of which I am a supporting member): We can support our leaders and stand up for our beliefs without slinging scriptural references directed at those opposing our beliefs. We can civilly respect the gay community's beliefs and offer them the same decency that we are hoping for, even if we differ in the content of those beliefs. Nobody likes to be preached to or told they are evil. Although I oppose the practice, I know of many gay people who are good, decent people in this world. We can extend great love and still follow our convictions.

  • Anti-PC Infidel
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:09 p.m.

    >stand up for our rights

    What? You have the right to change the meaning of a word that billions of people have used in a specific way for thousands of years? WOW! You're pretty special!

  • No Worries
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:12 p.m.

    This will bring far more people to the LDS faith. If gays were marching on the Catholic Church I would be for the Catholics.

  • The truth
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:12 p.m.

    So if prop 8 hadn't passed, and those who lost, started protesting and defacing churches that had helped defeat it, we surely would hear from the Gay Community that the protesters were lawless anti democratic lunatics not willing to abide by the rule of law. If you don't like what the law abiding coalition of citizens from California have legally voted for, then either go somewhere like Europe which embraces Gay marriage or MAN UP and GROW UP. Your feeble attack on the people of the LDS church isn't helping your cause. It's only strenghtening the resolve of the Non LDS millions who supported the proposistion and generating empathy for those willing to voice opposistion. America can clearly see your angry intolerance against the democratic system. Persecution for their beliefs is nothing new. Check your history, because YOU ARE LATE COMERS where angry words, threats and violence are used against the Mormon people. If they can survive being driven from their homes and coming west, this must seem like a walk through Golden Gate Park.

  • Comedy
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:16 p.m.

    I find it funny that people talk about believing in GOD and that the church does not believe in GOD by not wanting gay marriage to take place. It is a teaching in the Bible which causes us to think in the manner in which we do. What Bible are you reading? What gospel do you preach? Why are you so open now to the subject when so many people kept their sexuality a secret? We have always had this stand and will continue to do so. Protest all you want. We are just looking out for you in the first place. How you view that is up to you.

  • Be Still and Know
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:18 p.m.

    Gay people have the right to marry just like everyone else. They just don't have a special right to marry someone of the same sex.

  • lets think about this
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:21 p.m.

    Why should freedom of speech only apply to people of the gay community? These protesters are attempting to take away the first amendments rights of people of faith. They are trying to intimidate people into not exercising their first amendment right, why they exercise their own rights to free speech. Separation of church and state does not mean the people of faith do not have a right to vote or use free speech. Dont take rights away from others that you would not want to have taken from you. I think we should be careful not to take away others rights to free speech even when we dont agree with them. We could start the country on a road the end with none of us having basic rights.

  • THE BOOB
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:22 p.m.

    It's my prop and I'll cry if I want too...Cry if I want too. You would cry too, If it happened to you.

  • Danny C.
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:23 p.m.

    Yeah, they'll come. They'll march. They'll shout and wave their flimsy signs. Then they'll go home.

    And what good will it do them? None whatsoever.

  • JMW
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:23 p.m.

    Ok so I read this post on here
    "I'm having a hard time understanding people that want to be different from what has been established for hundreds of years in accordance to the laws of marriage but excpect to get all of the same benefits. When you chose to be gay you consiouscly choose to give up certain rights and privilages. Either live with the consequences of your choice or buy a island way out in the middle of the pacific and create your own little gay society. Quite trying to be different and fit in at the same time."
    Well didn't the African Americans do this same thing a few years back. They protested and kept fight for things that had been against the accordance of laws for years. Now look at what we have today a Black President. I really think that overtime we will see our society as a whole change and become accepting to Gay's. I don't mean every single person will accept it but as a whole it will be accepted. I do agree that this protest won't change the LDS church's view but it might make a difference for others in the community.

  • Sandy Dandy
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:26 p.m.

    Section 297.5 of the California Family Code reads:
    297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same
    rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same
    responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they
    derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,
    government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources
    of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.

    Please explain to me the differences in substantive rights between marriages and domestic partnerships in CA.

  • Aaron
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:28 p.m.

    Still seems like some pretty hateful stuff to me, ya'll. I've always thought of you folks (LDS) as some pretty Christ-like individuals until now. Where is the tolerance? Where is the brotherly love? Where is the separation of church and state? Don't tell me you can't understand why the gay community is fired up about this. Beyond the marriage issue, your support of this initiative is an affirmation of your willingness to discriminate against them. That's why I typed "Mormon = Hate" above. That's what this looks like to them and anyone else with an objective view of your church's involvement.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:29 p.m.

    Old Scratch, the adversary is behind all this hatred toward the LDS church. Where is the anger against the Catholic, evangelical, other protestant churches? Where is the anger against the hispanic and black communities?

  • Move on
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:33 p.m.

    First of all, there were over FIVE MILLION people who voted in favor of Prop 8. Only 2% of those who voted are members of the church. And who is to say they all voted "yes?" You do the math. If Prop 8 had failed do you think members of the church would be protesting the defeat all over the place? Hardly. As one who was personal witness to Yes on 8 signs being vandalized, cars being vandalized for having a bumper sticker on it, and young mothers with their young children at their side being accosted, chased down the street and called names because they were placing door hangers on doors of homes where people said they were already going to vote "yes," those demanding equality and tolerance, were, and yet remain the most intolerant.

  • bodymek
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:35 p.m.

    I'm not gay. I'm not LDS. Yet I believe both are entitled to their own freedoms. The mormons were chased literally out of Ohio and Kansas, and they settled here in SLC...so they could practice their beliefs without being harassed. Gay's want their liberties recognized as well. I have a hard time understanding how anyone else can feel wronged by that. It isn't as though it has any impact on a non-gay person whatsoever. So what is everyone arguing over? I'm confused.

  • dendel
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:36 p.m.

    An interesting quote from the "article 6 Blog":

    "Ill say it again - theyre targeting the wrong people. While the Mormon Church may have encouraged large donations to the Yes on 8 cause, it wasnt the votes of the Mormons that put the measure over the top. It was the votes of blacks and Latinos who turned out in large numbers for Barack Obama and voted something like 70%-30% for the measure.

    If you want to protest the people who were the most responsible for passing the measure, take your angry LGBT crowd and bus them down to South Central or East L.A. and call those people bigots and homophobes. Id pay good money to see that."

    From an involved Californian to our friends in Utah.

  • Sarah
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:37 p.m.

    I was down there tonight to side with the LDS Church, because I believe that President Monson, President Eyring and President Uchtdorf are prophets of God. People at that rally were horrible. They screamed at us, insulted us and our beliefs, threw things at us, called us all manner of names, and one girl spit on me. We just smiled and said nothing, but for them to treat us like that while claiming to be on the side of love and tolerance is astonishing.

    They claimed this was about politics, but there was nothing political about it. It was purely about hate for the LDS Church.

    Like somebody earlier said, I've never felt such kinship with the early members of the Church than I do today.

  • Utah, I am serious!
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:38 p.m.

    I am here in Texas. Home of the Bible Belt, Southern Baptists, Church of Christ, Baylor University, Southern Methodist University, etc. It rarely snows here. I cannot ski in Texas. Please, can I come to your boycotted state? Can I bring loads of my Christian friends who have the same family values as "Utah Mormons"? They would love to see the mountains, ski, go to a Utah Jazz game
    ( as long as they are not playing San Antonio or Dallas)and hear the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. They are nuts about how great they sing. Can we drive around and go to southerm Utah and show them Zion's Park and Moab (what a place to start a river run and see the Arches!)? This is making me want to come to a boycott party in Utah sooooo bad! I promise to spend all my money in Utah before I get on the plane to Texas. Is it a deal?

  • Mike eldredge jr.
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:38 p.m.

    there is no difference between discriminating agianst black people, gay people, mormons, or any other people. you are all a bunch of bigots. why cant you just keep your beliefs to yourselfs and leave the rest of us humans alone?

  • lighten up
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:39 p.m.

    How many protesters does it take to change a lightbulb? Three. One to change the lightbulb and two to say "Faaaaaaabbulooooouuuussssss"

  • Force government to publish them
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:42 p.m.

    The truth,

    "So if prop 8 hadn't passed, and those who lost, started protesting and defacing churches that had helped defeat it, we surely would hear from the Gay Community that the protesters were lawless anti democratic lunatics not willing to abide by the rule of law."

    There you go making me wish the shoe was on the other foot. I would like to give them a dish of their own medicine.

    "It's only strengthening the resolve of the Non LDS millions who supported the proposition and generating empathy for those willing to voice opposition."

    Those who see this complete disregard for the rights of members of the Church will lose all respect for these tyrants who want to impose same-sex marriage on the majority. It kind of makes me wish they will continue their persecution of the Church because of our votes and participation in free elections since it will increase the solidarity of those same-sex marriage advocates are persecuting.

    "America can clearly see your angry intolerance against the democratic system."

    They hate freedom and republican government. Next the government will be required to not only not prohibit freedom of speech but also publish them.

  • awsomeron
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:42 p.m.

    I would hope that Not Many Members would attend, tonight is Friday Night, which is Date Night. I would not waste a good Date Night, doing that. It is Cold in Salt Lake, I would just want to be inside and warm. My Daughter 18 is going to her 1st Singles Dance, she is going by herself, but the Temp will be close to 78 degrees when its time to go. Light Trade Winds and Clear Sky. I am dropping off, mother is picking up on her way home from work. Tomorrow we dedicate a New Chapel (open house),we built in and Industrial Park. Nice Chapel, will support 3 Wards. We chose the Industrial Park, because of the Land and Few Neighbors. We are not the Only Church out there. Doing that avoided several years of Fighting. After that a driving lesson. I have been pushing Single Adult Events, so I had to put up or shut up. Down side of being an Older Parent.

  • Tolerance
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:43 p.m.

    For those in the gay community, tolerance is a one-way street.

  • CA Supreme Court
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:44 p.m.

    May 2008: "We therefore conclude that in view of the substance and significance of the fundamental constitutional right to form a family relationship, the California Constitution properly must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right to all Californians, whether gay or heterosexual, and to same-sex couples as well as to opposite-sex couples."

    To make an amendment to the California Constitution that is "of substance", the amendment must come from either the state legislature or a constitutional convention. An amendment proposed by the initiative process is not sufficient to make this sort of change to the California Constitution. That's existing California law.

    Why then let it on the ballot? Had it been rejected the court wouldn't have had to rule on it at all. That's their preference.

    It'll be overturned, and then everybody can spend another 100 million on ads for and against the next one. Think of it as the next economic stimulus package.

  • To If our Church | 7:46
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:51 p.m.

    Too bad you're leaving -- we'll miss you. And, sadly, your family, for generations to come, will miss the truth.

    But we'd be missing a lot more if we bought into the world's view that standing up for truth is hate.

    It's not. It's love.

    God loves you. He loves us all, including Californians on both sides of Prop 8. He wants us all to be happy. But he knows giving in to sin never brings happiness. And giving in to your hate won't bring happiness either.

    God bless in your new life. When you get tired of hating, remember, we're always here for you.

  • Rights aren't created by statute
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:52 p.m.

    Be Still and Know,

    "Gay people have the right to marry just like everyone else. They just don't have a special right to marry someone of the same sex."

    Marriage is not a right and we shouldn't refer to it as a right. The problem we are having is because the people are referring to everything as right.

    Rights are inalienable and can not be granted or denied by government. Rights are individual, not collective.

    We have a right to freedom of speech. But don't have a right for government to promote or publish it.

    We have freedom of religion. But don't have a right to force government to recognize our religion.

    We have freedom of assembly but that doesn't mean that Congress has to allow us to assemble in the House chambers.

    We have freedom to participate in public meetings but the majority and their representatives don't have to allow us to remain if we are disruptive.

    We have freedom to elect members of Congress but the majority of Congress doesn't have to allow them to take their seats and can expel our Congressman.

    Simply put, rights are independent of Government and cannot be violated. Marriage isn't a right.

  • heleninoz
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:53 p.m.

    It amazes me! People criticise the LDS church for contributing money toward such an important issue but I would hazard a guess that many of those who are whinging and whining now, would gladly take the handouts and help that the Church gives in times of disasters. A lot of money generously given by LDS members is because they fast meals. They contribute the money not used for food to the Church. I know how the LDS members give generously not only financially but physically.
    I am a LATTER DAY SAINT; I AM A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. How thankful I am to have a Prophet to guide me in these Latter Days.

  • anne
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:57 p.m.

    Maybe it will make a difference. Look at them with love and see if it's any easier to see their frustration.
    Just because a person is wrong doesn't mean they can't feel hurt and pain. A little empathy goes a long way. Both directions is even better. :D

    You can not change them. No person can change another person. You can be an example to them. Teach them with Christ like attitudes. If they don't want to be taught then just love them because they are God's children and our brothers and sisters.

    You know what? I was speaking as a LDS person but this all works both directions.

    There is a nice non religious saying "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Maybe it's true! It is certainly more kind. And there's a lot fewer hurt feelings. And more listening. My gosh! It just might work!

  • James
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:57 p.m.

    The Church stated "Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over same-sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility toward each other"
    ...isn't it too late? You have not show the gay and lesbian community respect by taking away their civil rights...can you really expect the same?

  • Dare to differ
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:58 p.m.

    Bring on the boycott. Isolation is what Our ancestors sought for in the first place..... to have a sanctuary to live their religion according to the dictates of our own hearts, the Lord God himself and not the government of Mamon. We have plenty of natural resources in gold, silver, oil, coal, iron, copper, uranium, natural gas. We have some of the world's most beautiful and pristene scenic wonderlands in our canyons, mountains and deserts. We definitely have the greatest snow on earth. There's plenty of us to support our own economy....so go ahead and bring on your boycott......don't be surprised when you find out just how insignificant you really are because there are plenty of non Mormons out there who appreciate not only us as a people but what we have in our state.

  • James
    Nov. 7, 2008 8:59 p.m.

    Danny C. you are wrong! change will happen! Progress will happen! No longer does society ban interracial marriage, and support segregation of African Americans and Whites.
    Ready or not...here it comes!

  • alternate
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:22 p.m.

    protest rocky. Funny how he shows up when it's hate time. This time hate against the LDS church.

    Hey, Rocky, maybe you can go after our new President-elect also. Am I not correct that he spoke up in favor of marriage being a man and a woman? Next you best move on to Florida, Arizona and all the other States.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:23 p.m.

    People should not take the frustrations of these protesters too personal. After all they have suffered a huge disappointment.

    How would you feel if an outside force tried to influence our states and communities social laws?

    Well, actually tons of money came in to Utah to fight a similar law we passed.

    And tons of outside money was spent to stop the church and the city from allowing the churches right of way down town.

    And tons of outside money has been used to tie up Utah lands in wilderness and tell us how to use it, often preventing its use.

    Clinton even set aside the Escalante staircase monument while in Arizona as a political stunt to get Arizona votes, undermining a more substantial discussion going on in our state legislature.

    But we should play the bigger part and not be bothered by their defacing our property and using hate to fight hate.

    After all, voting ones conscience is a form of hate.

  • Devout LDS
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    This is another testimony to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the one church that encompasses the fulness of the gospel. That is why Satan has to work so hard to try to thwart this church but not the others.

  • In CA
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    "This is the moment we as a gay society need to stand up and fight for ourselves," said Whipple, a gay man who planned to wed in California in April.

    Why do they have to be a separate society? If they are sparate then civil unions should work just fine.

  • Lisa Young
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:25 p.m.

    There should be a separation of church and state on this issue. Until all LDS families step up and adopt children outside of their families they have no right to stop other citizens from forming families and adopting. This has far reaching social implications. Preach love not social separatism. Accept differences in others.

  • Sam
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:28 p.m.

    Dear Mormon people. The best thing WE can do, is not even take notice of what is going on in SLC. Do not give the protesters any notice. We need to quit blogging here. Just let it go. They will stop. They want us to get all riled up. Just ignore them.

  • Numbers
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:30 p.m.

    To Shaun, who said: "The more you hate and persecute......the more we're going to grow in numbers and stength." The problem with that idea is that we are not large and strong. It seems that way in Utah, but the truth is, although the Catholic Church is growing by only one percent a year, that one percent per year equals the entire world population of the LDS Church. Imagine adding the entire size of the LDS Church every year! Why do you think the protestors are attacking us and not the Catholic Church? Because they can damage us. Beware.

  • to Aaron:
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:34 p.m.

    Aaron was the brother of Moses remember? You might want to read about Aaron and ponder his situation in the Land of Egypt and out in the wilderness. Remember his disobedience when the masses began to riot that they wanted a golden calf and Aaron actually help make it because at the time Moses had been on the Mount too long and the people began to murmur. So, they convinced Aaron that what they wanted was right and he bought into to their request only to be ashamed later when Moses appear and the terrible consequences for the Israelites followed. Aaron, we are not much different today when we are disobedient to the Lord. The consequences will follow disobedience. Following the crowd has usually never been the right path when is goes against the teachings of the Lord. The Bible is very clear about what happens to those who abuse the sacred blessing of our bodies where procreation is concerned. The Lord will not be mocked in this sacred relationship between and man and woman since Adam and Eve. He loves us but his laws are Eternal and just.

  • Cherilyn Bacon Eagar
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:34 p.m.

    Some points at the heart of this discussion:
    1. Many churches were involved.

    2. 70% of the black vote influenced the outcome.

    3. The media has deceived the public by falsely portraying homosexuality as immutable (i.e. unchangeable; see NARTH.org for supporting social science research).

    4. This issue is not about adult sexual relationships. It's about society protecting the optimal environment for raising children - in a family with both a mother and a father.

    5. Parental rights were at stake because government-funded schools in countries and states in which same-gender marriage is already lawful are required to, and do, teach the lawful definitions of marriage, including same-gender marriage.

    6. Religious liberties were at stake because countries in which same-gender marriage and hate-crime legislation is already the law can fine or penalize individuals and organizations that fall within the definitions of hate crimes statutes.

    7. Protests are futile. There were similar protests against the LDS church during the Womens Lib movement. The LDS church was right in forecasting the depravation that would be heaped upon the family when the protected status of women was equalized.

  • Gay
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:35 p.m.

    The word "gay" used to mean someone who is happy! I am happy, does that make me gay? Who changed the meaning? Next word on the change agenda is apparently, "marriage". What will it mean to be married in 10 years? Probably very little if these people succeed in yet another definition change. And no, I am not a bigot or a homophobe. I just don't think marriage should be tampered with. To some of us it is sacred institution ordained by God himself. If true, then these people's arguements are really with God! But can they "tolerant" Him? Can He tolerate them is a better question!

  • Tolerance
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:40 p.m.

    Must we tolerate everything? All behaviors? Are we bigots and intolerant if we can't abide everything and everything? Is no behavior untolerable?

  • Are they Equal?
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:43 p.m.

    If civil unions are the eqivalent of marriage, why not let gays get married and you straights can have civil unions? Why would YOU object to that?

  • Arizona resident
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:45 p.m.

    Arizona and Florida passed the same proposition- No protestors here..... WAKE UP and smell the loss. America wants marriage left between a man and a woman.

    Civil Rights for Christians too.

  • Another View
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:46 p.m.

    I read on the Church's media site the press release by the Archbishop of Sacramento. He condemned the senseless targeting of the LDS Church. He noted that this was a movement by many groups and singling out one church was simply wrong.

    I also must state that I agree that the GLBT community is showing its true "colors" by acting just as bitter and bigoted as they claim all of those that supported Prop 8 were. Show that you deserve what you are demanding. Show that you can understand that people think differently and that a majority of citizens joined together to voice their opinion.

  • Minority
    Nov. 7, 2008 9:49 p.m.

    Gay rights activists are unfairly singling out the Mormon Church calling members bigots. What of the 70% of African American voters who were "yes" on prop 8, 50% of hispanic voters, and hundreds of thousands other minorities who voted "yes." One does not hear and see signs calling these people bigots. Why is that?

  • Thank God
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:02 p.m.

    Those of you who think it is your "right" to decide who should enjoy civil rights in the name of democracy" are sadly mistaken. No minority group (women, blacks, the handicapped, etc.) achieved those rights by a vote of the people. They were won only through the courts. Gay and lesbian couples are no different. Thank God for the Constitution that guarantees Equality for ALL. And thank God for the Courts that enforce it!

  • Thank-you prop 8
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:02 p.m.

    I am a hispanic Christian Mom of 2 and I invited the missionaries to my home today after voting yes on Prop 8 Tuesday. I loved everything the missionary sisters had to say and can't wait to hear more.

    The Mormon Church is good people. I will pray for you tonight. May God Bless you.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:02 p.m.

    There is a reason the ballot measure in California attracted so much attention. If it had failed to pass, other states might well have been forced to alter their recognition of what constitutes marriage to encompass the whims of a strange court in California.

    Real America has no wish to bow to the fanciful causes promoted by the courts in California.

    I don't feel much sympathy for those who are carrying the strange flags, signs, and otherwise running amuck on our city's streets. My suggestion to them: stop watching so much TV; instead, read a fine book, enjoy the beauty of Autumn, take up a hobby, etc.

  • Ing
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:06 p.m.

    I thought I'd respond to a couple of comments here...but there's no point.

    What I will say, though, is that from reading the article, it looks like the protesters were well within their constitutional rights--just as the LDS church was in encouraging people to vote for Prop. 8.

    What I find a bit suspect is that the protest targeted the LDS church specifically, when none of the other groups that were prominently involved seem to be targeted by anything like this.

    Seems to me like the protest is just taking a pot shot at a convenient target. Probably the only group more easily vilified and publicly misrepresented than homosexuals is the LDS church. But all's fair in love, war, and sexual politics, I guess.

  • Classic comment
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:06 p.m.

    Hilarious comment, whoever posted this:

    "I guess these folks don't think you should get involved with your community and defend your beliefs."

  • Bill
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:08 p.m.

    It is amazing that these protest go on. The Church requested its members help. Many did and many also supported the other side. The fact remains though that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is led by a living Prophet/Prophets of God. When they speak together or seperately they are speaking for God. Sure the war isn't over yet. We have won one battle and there are more to be won on this issue. We as members know that the war in heaven is still be fought here with the righteous against the powers of Satan and his army. We must continue to listen to the Prophet and heed his warnings. I stand with President Monson, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve. This is the same fight that happened in the Old/New Testament of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ. I know that my Redeemer Lives and is the head of the Church.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:09 p.m.

    I am glad Prop 8 passed, but unforutnately I believe the courts will overturn it in time. When the courts do overturn it I will be glad that I don't live in California because distruction will surely follow. God will only be able to put up with only so much before He says, "Enough is enough."

  • Let me say
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:10 p.m.

    Let me say that I am LDS and I DO NOT HATE "gay" people. But I support Prop 8 in CA and 102 in AZ because I feel a need to protect myself from frivolous lawsuits designed to force me to accept a lifestyle that I don't believe in. Be honest -- The gay rights lobby is pushing the agenda onto the opposition.

  • What's the point?
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:10 p.m.

    Gays and Lesbians will bus themselves to Salt Lake City and scream and yell and cause damage. So what? California law will not bend because gays are screaming in Utah over a Proposition that was past mostly by blacks and other religious groups. This is nothing more that a dog and pony show for the news media to go after Christians in the country and they think they can intimidate the church because they think no one cares about Mormons and could care less is they are destroyed. Problem with their point of view: The Lord, Jesus Christ, has promised His church will not be taken from the earth again. " No unhallowed hand can stop the work from going forth".

  • Overturn8
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:10 p.m.

    Nobody is asking for special rights.... we are asking for EQUAL RIGHTS

  • Upset
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:11 p.m.

    Prior to these events I was someone who was fine with gay people being allowed to be married. After these events though I would vote to ban gay marriage. I don't think people should go and intimidate others because they lost an election or because people don't agree with them. It has nothing to do with hate, but a disagreement about marriage being only between a man and a woman. I didn't vote for Obama, but I would never think to get a bunch of people rounded up and go out and intimidate people who did vote for Obama. The fact is that the Mormon church had very little to do with this vote. There were many Catholics who voted against this. Why aren't they protesting and initmidating them. There were many African Americans who voted to ban gay marriage, why aren't they being intimidated. I think they are going after the Mormon church because they know they are an easy target. The Mormon church is used to protests. As far as boycotting Utah, does anyone really think that Utah is a top vacation spot for gay people?

  • Thomas
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    I'm so tired of hearing people call this a civil rights issue. Marriage is a civil issue, but don't equate the LGBT movement to the civil-rights movement of the African-American community in the 1960s. Homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic. Moreover, a ban on same-sex marriage is not analogous with a ban on interracial marriage as those unions are still between a man and a woman. Stop trying to force your newly-fashioned definition of marriage on the rest of us. The people have spoken and they don't like what you're selling. Marriage is, and always will be, between a man and a woman. Stop trying to alter the fundamental nature of the primary building block of society to justify your alternative lifestyle.

  • You don't speak for us
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:13 p.m.

    James,

    "Danny C. you are wrong! change will happen! Progress will happen! No longer does society ban interracial marriage, and support segregation of African Americans and Whites."

    Will you stop hijacking what my people went through and endured as a result of slavery and segregation. We never asked for any rights that any white person didn't already possess. The only thing we asked for was that we receive those things on the same terms that whites did.

    We didn't ask for a new form of a marriage. We only wanted to receive it on the same terms as whites. If a white person could marry a person of the opposite sex than a black person should be able to do so and not be discriminated against based on the race of the two persons.

    In terms of homosexuality and heterosexuality this would mean we would be ask that a gay person would not be denied the right to marry a straight woman because he was gay and she was straight. We didn't ask to redefine marriage but only that our race not be a factor in its application.

    "Ready or not...here it comes!"

    Martin Luther King would never say that.

  • Brett
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:14 p.m.

    I find it funny that members and leaders of the Catholic Church and other Christian churches, which were heavily involved in the campaign to pass Proposition 8 are not coming under the same kind of attack. The LDS church, as well as it's members have a constitutionally protected freedom of speech which the GLBT community is seemingly trying to protest. Not setting a good example for yourselves guys. LDS Church is only 2% of the population of California. The people of AZ & FL have also spoken. Last year was Nevada. Democracy voice has been heard in the State of California. Twice.

  • Jeremyinitalia
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:22 p.m.

    To the person posting the holding of the May 2008 CA court decision - you need to read the opinion more carefully. The court erroneously determines "substance" of rights with interesting leading words (ex. may, perhaps, could) As in, this "could" bring about an unequal standard. Too bad the laws are written equally. Too bad this is an incorrect understanding of the principle of standing. Their holding was wrong and they knew it...they acknowledge the problem with the holding but then continue to muck it up. Another thing...their holding directly contradicts that of Brown v. Bd. of Education and the Loving v. Loving case (US S.Ct. cases) They apply general themes from those cases but fail to include the entire, exact holdings. Sorry Dude...

  • Rights, Tolerance, and Morals
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:23 p.m.

    Some feel laws banning same-sex marriage is discriminating ones rights. Proponents of this theory have yet to explain the fairness of laws banning prostitution, pornography, and illegal drugs - restrictions placed on private behaviors. Do these laws also discriminate?

    Most rights carried to extremes conflict with other virtues. Freedom of speech conflicts with the right to yell in a library. To bare arms conflicts with the right to own nuclear weapons. Is tolerance any different? Should tolerance trump in all cases? Tolerance is highly desirable; it can also be harmful.

    Should neighbors tolerate those who label them mindless bigots? Yes. Should neighbors tolerate those who mock and protest their religion? Yes (to me those who label, scorn, mock, and protest are like 3-year olds throwing temper tantrums - not really effective, somewhat amusing, but ya loveem). Should neighbors tolerate same sex couples who live together? Yes (if a church member, the minister, clergy or bishop handles this within their authority). Next tolerance level, should society tolerate same sex marriage? No. While tolerant individually society sees the legalization of this and other immoral behaviors harmful. God bless us.

  • true blue
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:26 p.m.

    Let them blame the LDS Church. If this is the price of us standing up for our beliefs then I'll gladly take it. That being said it was the Californian voters that passed the law.

  • Jesse
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:26 p.m.

    Bigoted attacks on Mormons for the part they played in the coalition are incredibly shameful. Granted, their membership contributed large sums of money. Only a small number of mormons consisted of the total of individuals who supported Proposition 8. It is discusting the GLBT community of California would attack and deface sacred etifices (LDS Temple Grounds)in their attempts to express their displeasure in the democratic process.

  • Novel idea
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:27 p.m.

    If California doesn't want the gay community (and the vote demonstrates that while people say they are welcomed they really aren't) then why doesn't the entire gay community pack up all of their money, businesses and people and move to Vermont, a state that will welcome them openly and permit them to marry? That would teach California and rally the gay community to one state where they would be welcomed with open arms. And while we're talking, taking the gay business out of Utah and protesting the Sundance Festival would be a great lesson to Utah, one the people of the state may even welcome themselves if they sit down to think about it!

  • Robo
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:29 p.m.

    I yahoo searched states with similar type constitutional amendments and found there are now approximately 30 with the recent additions of CA, AZ, and FL. I doubt that the LDS church had much sway in say Nebraska or most of those 30 states. Utah? Sure. Idaho? Sure. Arizona and Hawaii? Probably some. Otherwise, no. Obviously, there are more than just Mormons that think marriage should remain between one man and one woman.

  • Southern Californian
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:31 p.m.

    GAY = ANTI-RELIGION

    We, the people of California have spoken....twice. If you are gay and want to get married, move to Connecticut or Massachusetts.

    Your response to the fair outcome of a democratic process just reinforces why we must hold the line on morals in this country. You are already showing how you want to take the religion out of churches and try to force people to try and accept perversion as truth.

    Gay rights means trying to force people to be afraid of worshiping a God who loves all BUT does not tolerate sin.

  • Man and Woman
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:33 p.m.

    God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

  • To James 8:57
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    You should read the history of the Edmonds-Tucker Act which forced the LDS Church to end polygamy. Hundreds of LDS men were ripped away from their families and thrown in prison. Federal officials, without search warrants, forced their way into LDS homes, looking for polygamists. Dozens of LDS Church leaders went into hiding, including President John Taylor, who died partly because no doctor could reach him.

    There's no doubt in my mind, if the gay and lesbian community had the means, they would pass a similar law, forcing the LDS Church to allow gays to marry in its church, otherwise, the arrests, raids and hiding will return.

    If the LDS Church is only delaying the inevitable, how will the inevitable come? By harassment, threats and intimidation, followed by laws which strip away freedom of speech, assembly and religion?

    Isn't freedom wonderful? (As long as you agree with the gays and lesbians)

  • Get off your High Horse
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:36 p.m.

    Lisa Young,

    "There should be a separation of church and state on this issue."

    Separation of Church and State doesn't mean that any Church doesn't have a right to participate in public square and urge their members to vote against issues that impact the Church. Our right, as an non-profit organization ends at the same line as any other non-profit which is that we cannot support or endorse a candidate for public office or a political party.

    "Until all LDS families step up and adopt children outside of their families they have no right to stop other citizens from forming families and adopting."

    So you decide what our rights are. It seems to me that you think you are the only person who matters. The majority of Californians don't share your view but you know more than they do because Lisa is so intelligent and her worth is greater than millions who disagree with her.

    Unless you adopt every child who is up for adoption you have no right to stop others from speaking out on this issue. Until you feed the millions who are hungry and weary you cannot judge us so descend from your high horse.

  • Jason Berntson
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:39 p.m.

    I'm glad that these protesters took the time out of their lives to protest one of the most blatant violation of Human rights that this country currently practices. Neither religion nor the government has a right to define what groups of people can't marry.

    If religious organizations want to decide who can and can't marry, they should start campaigning to eliminate the use of government-issued marriage licenses.

  • Kelly
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:49 p.m.

    1st of all, homosexuals do have equal rights with everyone else when it comes to marriage. Heterosexuals can't marry anyone of the same gender either. Love isn't the issue. The government shouldn't be legislating emotions.

    2nd of all, does Rocky Anderson advertise, "Have protest sign, will travel"? Good grief. Rocky is attracted to protests like flies are attracted to manure.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:50 p.m.

    This is not the business of the church. Or its' members. They can believe what they want. But when they come into the secular world, into the society that includes me, they have overstepped their limits. Now they are foisting their baseless nonsense on me. Prior to that, well they can do what they want. Now it's personal. And I'm not gay. I hope holy hell comes their way. Wings need clipped. You can believe what you want. If I can't, and it's because of you, watch out.

  • Ben
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:51 p.m.

    The Irony in all of this is in the fact that the "Protection of Rights" has hardly ever been accorded to the Latter-Day Saints.

    I think it is ironic that the rescinding of Executive Order Number 44, dated October 27, 1838, issued by Missouri Governor W. Boggs, "The Mormon Extermination Act" was only struck from the laws of Missouri in 1976.

    Homosexuals who choose to attack anyone, including "Mormons" need to get a grip when they choose to pick on a people who more then any other, save only the African American population, know what it means to be discriminated against.

    Your cause is not just. Get over yourselves and your unwillingness to see that what you are doing is not justifiable in any law book or constitution including the original law book, the Holy Bible.

  • From California
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:52 p.m.

    I voted yes on 8 and I don't need to answer to anyone for that choice only to my Father in Heaven.
    I don't blame the protesters from to be in the streets the one who are to blame are the 4 judges in the California Supreme Court they did open a door and now we are paying the consequences. This judges we need to hold them responsible for what it is going on. This is the first time I voted as a new american citizen and they are already questioning my vote the lesbians and gay community so....why to vote if they are not going to respect my right?

  • You demean what we went through
    Nov. 7, 2008 10:53 p.m.

    Thank God,

    "They were won only through the courts."

    Actually, we endured decades of segregation because of Supreme Court rulings, not in spite of them and it was finally through the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act and our marches that we obtained full civil rights.

    "Gay and lesbian couples are no different. Thank God for the Constitution that guarantees Equality for ALL. And thank God for the Courts that enforce it!"

    You don't want equality and I'm tired of your lies. Blacks never asked for anything that whites didn't already have. We asked for them on the same terms and did not demand different terms. Let's take the issue of marriage since it has direct bearing on this issue.

    Black men couldn't marry white women because they were black while black woman couldn't marry white men because they were black. We simply asked that race have no bearing on who could marry and that blacks and whites be granted marriage licenses on the same terms. Gays already have this because of all the work civil rights activists put in.

    A gay man isn't denied the right to marry a straight woman because he's gay or versa.

  • Southern California
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:00 p.m.

    If the vote were held again today, there would be even MORE votes in favor. These demonstrators have shown their true colors and people are not sympathizing with them. The dye has been cast. So let it be written, so let it be done.

  • anom
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:01 p.m.

    What I find interesting about the photo is a person holding up a flag, which in my opinon is a descretion of the american flag, these people don't respect the flag, don't respect the will of the people, don't respect religion, but yet want equal rights. Prop 8 has never been about equal rights, it has always been about morality

  • Your post is offensive
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:02 p.m.

    Overturn8,

    "Nobody is asking for special rights.... we are asking for EQUAL RIGHTS"

    You already have EQUAL RIGHTS.

    Homosexuals are granted license to marry on the same terms as heterosexuals and they can marry if that is their choice. No one is violating their inalienable rights which aren't granted or denied by government. To argue that all you want is EQUAL RIGHTS while at the same time arguing for redefining the terms of a marriage is dishonest.

    As a black man I ask you stop hijacking the language of the civil rights movement and those of us who had to suffer through those horrible times when you have nothing in common with the movement since it did not seek to redefine any law and instead only sought the right of blacks to receive the benefits of the laws on the same terms as whites without regard to race.

    In terms of the right to eat in the same restaurants as whites. We didn't ask that we be given a menu of our own making but only that we would would be able to buy the same food at the same price as whites.

    That's not what you are asking for.

  • Obama's Opinion
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:03 p.m.

    Although Obama supports gay rights, he does not support gay marriage. This is very similar if not the same stance as the Church.

  • LDS in CA
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:03 p.m.

    I didn't contribute one single penny to yes on 8. However I gave of my time. I was subjected to all sorts of harrassment and obscene gestures. Would I do it again? YES. A man in our Stake made bumperstickers and donated them. We forwarded lots of emails about the truth of what was happening in Massaschusetts schools now that gay marriage is legal there. I walked my neighborhood delivering fliers ward members had designed and copied and donated. All this without money from yes on 8. There are plenty of ways to educate people without spending money. The internet is a great tool.

  • Talisyn
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:04 p.m.

    I really didn't see any problem with homosexual couples getting married, but I was disturbed by the printing of the names and addresses of the donors for prop 8 and the marking of whether they were mormon or not. What would be next, a great big letter M tattooed on the foreheads of members of the LDS church in Cali? After seeing the protests and wanton intolerance of the pro-gay crowd I would be proud to have that tattoo.

  • Hold To The Rod
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:06 p.m.

    "Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" -
    Book of Mormon, 2nd Nephi 15:20

    Smart guy, that Nephi....

  • Matt
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:11 p.m.

    I am disappointed in the headline "LDS stand on gay marriage decried".

    It should read "LDS stand in defense of traditional marriage decried"?

  • Tired
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:11 p.m.

    The LDS Church will not lose tax exempt status and they didn't mix Church and State. That only works when they advocate a specific candidate from the pulpit. This was not an election of a person from a specific party. What is amazing to me is how comments spout "laws" that don't exist or are taken out of context. The fact is, the California courts were not authorized to allow gay marriage in the first place. That is not how this country works. We all need to go back to 7th grade and take US Government for crying out loud because this argument is ridiculous!

  • No real impact
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:12 p.m.

    Brett,

    "LDS Church is only 2% of the population of California."

    If 80% of LDS members in California are eligible to vote,and 55% of them voted, and the majority or 90% of them supported Prop. 8 we would still not had a major impact on the outcome.

    "The people of AZ & FL have also spoken. Last year was Nevada. Democracy voice has been heard in the State of California. Twice."

    They want to force others to do as they want and do not care about our rights or the right of majorities to govern. They continue to lie about this being an issue of civil rights when it isn't since they are not denied any civil right because of their sexual orientation nor are they denied a license to marry because of their sexual orientation.

    Any gay person can get a marriage license to marry a person of the opposite sex and do so under the same terms as heterosexuals. There is no question on the forms asking them for their sexual orientation. Nor are they denied the right to marry because of their sexual orientation. That would be discrimination and a violation of due process but it isn't.

  • Born that way?
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:13 p.m.

    Logic please!

    1. If gay people are not born gay, then it is a lifestyle choice (one in which in the USA in 2008 two consenting adults may practice in privacy w/o fear of prosecution. Just as voting YES on Prop 8 was a lifestyle choice. So why be so concerned about it? Also, the civil rights analogy is bogus.

    2. However, if people are born gay, then people with opinions that wish to deny gay people the "right" to marry may also be born with the tendency for those opinions and should not be held accountable for such.

    3. Since when does a church that takes a political position loose tax-exempt status? Cite some legal authority please.

  • Ben
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:15 p.m.

    In 38 states you can be legally fired from a job for what you are trying to defend as a right.

    Only an idiot would think that "A gay man isn't denied the right to marry a straight woman because he's gay or versa."

    Living a lie takes on all shpaes!

  • Truth
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:16 p.m.

    Such interesting comments by people. The one defining truth: God is in charge and his laws and commandments do not change. Protesting or opinions that differ from God's, cannot change what He has set forth as His doctrines. It just goes to show how much our nation has become a godless society! The greater the wickedness of this nation, the greater the divide between good and evil. Where were the protesters at the Catholic or Evangelical churches?

  • Almost Comical
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:16 p.m.

    The LBGT community marching around the SL Temple is so ridiculous it's almost comical.

    I say "almost", because it isn't funny. In the pictures, I see the faces of brothers and sisters who, spiritually speaking, are incredibly lost and confused. How tragically sad.

    BUT...we've been warned that even many of the elect shall fall in the days before the Savior comes again! The LDS church will no doubt lose some former members over the gay "marriage" issue but their complaints will only help us find the truly humble followers of the Christ that much faster.

  • 11,000 already married
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:18 p.m.

    One point I haven't heard anyone touch on, is the 11,000 people who were married within the last four months. The gay community is very upset because they believe that their marriages are going to now be dissolved. I personaly don't believe that their marriages should be abolished, because they were married when it was legal at that time. I do applaud the gay community for standing up for what they believe is unequal treatment.

  • Laura
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:18 p.m.

    As a result of gay marriage being legalized in MASS, the Catholic Adoption Agency had to shut its doors because they refused to allow gay adoptions. That is a fact!

  • anne
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:19 p.m.

    I have spend some time the last few days reading news reports on the proposition 8.
    One thing stands out very strongly to me. It is no wonder the gay people are so angry at the LDS. They have been lied to in very subtle ways over and over by their own gay oriented medias.
    Their medias do not distinguish between LDS church and LDS members.
    Their medias do not seem to realize being asked to support something is not the same as being told to support something.
    Their media prints inflamatory articles with subtle twists to make an innocent sentence take on hateful tones. Substituting simple words like "told" for "asked". "Church" for "members".
    It is said over and over that the Church funded the campaign. The medias have to know that was inaccurate.
    Their medias seem to be determined to mislead the very people they are supposedly informing.
    If you get your information from these types of sources it's no wonder there is anger.
    It's time to back off and find out what is really the truth. Research before condemning.
    Peace

  • GET MARRIED
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:20 p.m.

    Mr. Whipple mentioned that he planned on marrying his fiance in April. Why didn't he get married before this vote? If he was really sincere and stood his ground for what he believed in, he would have gone through with it in CA. He still can in MA however. It's not too late. But one thing he doesn't understand is that the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE has spoken LOUD AND CLEAR in ALL 3 states. Get a clue. And stop the hate!!!

  • The Deuce
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:22 p.m.

    For Anonymous who hopes that "Holy Hell" comes the way of the LDS Church: History reminds all of us following the bombing of Pearl Harbor of the comment made by the Japanese Admiral who said that he feared they (Japan) had awaken a sleeping giant. While Pearl Harbor has nothing to do with or is similar to the current Prop 8 issue, the comment is. I am neither against nor for Prop 8. However, the people voting No on Prop 8 wanted to take this issue to a vote and they got it. This issue is only found in a few states on both the east and west coast of the US. The sleeping giant lives inbetween. If you want to "bring it on" I am afraid that you may get your wish. Your protests continue to divide and create more hatred. Let's get moving forward and not backward. I live in California and I am tired of listening to this everynight on the news. Let's find common ground where we can work from and not against. First, start by understanding what the real issues are from each side instead of yelling hate and bigot.

  • Ben
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:28 p.m.

    I recall in the last Vice Presidential debate, when both were asked, do you accept gay marriage? Both without hesitation. Said no,why pin point the Mormons? The people of California have spoken, this has nothing to do with not loving our gay brothers and sisters, It's defining what constitutes a marriage which was right from the beginning Adam&Eve,remember they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth, mmm some how that doesn't fit the bill.I love the gay Community, but I can not support redefining marriage.

  • The Rational Truth
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:29 p.m.

    When it comes to divisive, hot-button issues like this, people on both sides inevitably over-simplify both sides while blatantly ignoring the much more complex middle.

    "Gays want to steal our rights!"

    "Prop 8 supporters are intolarant!"

    "(insert homophobic insult here) are dirty, rotten sinners!"

    "Mormon = Hate"

    I could write a novel that would still not fully contain all of the over-simplified rhetoric uttered by both sides of this issue.

    The truth of the matter is that none of this fire-blasting will get anything done at the end of the day. I am optimistic that gay activists will find a way to advance their agenda withought forcing the majority to conform to it and that religious people will respect gays and work towards compromising on this issue.

    I don't mean to through a cliche out there, but you know what they say: "There's always two sides to every issue..."

  • Scarlet
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:31 p.m.

    It was an awesome sight to see people united against discrimination and hatred. How quickly Mormons forget history and how they were treated. The discriminated become the discriminators!
    Love will prevail!!!

  • To CA members.
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:35 p.m.

    I want to tell you of my respect in standing up for not what man wants, but what God wants. My prayers are with you, and I hope that you will hold strong to the Gospel, because you are right now experiencing the buffetings of Satan.

    When I hear of the anger and the protests and see the ad that the pro-gay people did, the vileness of it reminds me of what I read in the Bible of how the people had become in Sodom.

    The core of the LDS church is the family, as defined by God, a father and a mother, (male and female). We have seen the family fall apart through divorce, abuse and addiction, or just plain selfishness. But to make such a mockery of something so sacred, as to gay marriage is appalling. Never, since this nation was established has there been gay marriage, and it is not time to change that. This country has not changed, the LDS and other churches have not changed, but more and more people are changing by embracing sin. Next they will want us to let all the rapists and murders out of prison.

  • Aaron Trulson
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:37 p.m.

    This will never be merely a secular nation so long as its people possess moral convictions.

  • Mr. Whipple
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:40 p.m.

    Mr. Whipple mentioned at the beginning of this article that he was planning on marrying his fiance in April. Why didn't he do it in CA before the vote? If he was really serious and stood for what he believed in, he would have gotten married. But it's not too late....MA is still legal!!

    And doesn't anyone hear that the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE has spoken ONCE AGAIN ... LOUD & CLEAR in ALL 3 STATES??!! Get a clue. Stop the hate.

  • If you Doubt the Church...
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:41 p.m.

    To all the members of the LDS church who have doubt about how the church was/is involved in this issue, I have one piece of advice....Remember. Remember your testimony of the restored gospel and Jesus Christ. It is easy to doubt, always has been one of Satan's masked temptations. But the true strength of one's testimony is if church members obey when God speaks to man through his servants the prophets. Christ was despised of man, Joseph Smith as well. Should we as members expect any different from the world? Remember what you already know to be true and stop letting the doubt of the world enter your hearts. You'll find comfort is obeying the counsel of the Brethren.

  • anon
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:41 p.m.

    I thank the LDS church and its members. They did nothing wrong by exercising their right to free speech. And they have taught me a valuable lesson in tolerance. I am not a member of the gay community and never gave their cause much thought until signs went up all over my neighborhood. By using fear to gin up crowds, they have succeeded in creating a climate of divisiveness and hate. And I am now a supporter of gay rights and gay marriage.

  • Laura
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:42 p.m.

    All these other Christian churches need to pay homage to the LDS church. Prop 8 would've failed without us. WE are a force to be reckoned with when it comes to a moral issue at the polls. The people of CA have spoken not once, but twice! So, GO HOME!!!!!

  • Let's see
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:46 p.m.

    750,000 LDS out of a population of 38,000,000 and they somehow were able to vote how many times to equal 52% of the vote. My, MY, MY. Even if all the LDS were adults they still wouldn't eve come close to the 52% of the voters.

    Satan will color a person's mind with hate and push them to attack his opposition, which is God's Church. He wants to destroy the family and will use any means to accomplish that. Nowhere in the bible can I find anything that even remotely approves of the homosexual lifestyle.

    I see the homosexuals as showing their hypocrisy when it comes to painting with a broad brush all those who oppose them. They think nothing of using foul and vulgar expletives to voice their opinions and use every manner of incivility towards the Church which shows indicates to me their lack of Christ-like behavior. Where is the protests in front of the Catholic churches, where is the protest in front of the Jewish Synagogues, where isthe protest in front of the Baptist or Protestant Churches?

  • Laura
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:46 p.m.

    In the last days all the other churches will crumble and merge but the LDS church will remain strong.

  • High School Football vs. Prop. 8
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:50 p.m.

    Something occurred to me earlier. High School football tonight was a big deal. 8 5A high schools battled to further their place in the state high school football tournament. Proposition 8 was a bigger deal and there a lot of people against it. I would bet that more people showed up to the 4 5A high school football games tonight than protested at Temple Square.

  • Popeye
    Nov. 7, 2008 11:54 p.m.

    The church will grow because of this! Wait and see.

  • former Salt Laker
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:06 a.m.

    The Evangelicals have won again! They got Prop 8 passed on the sweat and fiances of Church members and now the Church of Jesus Christ is taking the full brunt of it. Why is the GLTG community not protesting them? I have heard that as the gay community put their commercials featuring the LDS missionaries that there was a great celebration from the so called coalition that they were getting it all, the proposition passed and the Church of Jesus Christ is getting the worst press in years slowing down missionary work. I am sure these images of people attacking the Oakland and LA temples is making them giddy. We need to continue to reach out to our Gay brothers and sisters and watch out for the two faced evengelicals who cut and run at the first sign of consequences for standing up for what is right.

  • Think Of It This Way
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:12 a.m.

    As the concerned SL resident said in the story, "It's important that so-called traditional families support everyone's rights."

    Really, it's infinitely MORE important that the traditional family, as the foundation for society, be protected and preserved so that EVERYONE can HAVE rights. When you take away that foundation, what do you have? RUINS AND RUBBLE.

    I hope the activists will stop and think about this for a few minutes. Society CANNOT rest on the foundation of gay and lesbian "family units." Admirable exceptions aside, across the board, they're too unstable--and yes, credible scientific research HAS been done on this. The traditional family, AND ONLY THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY, provides the stability and the structure necessary to preserve society.

    In the Civil War, Lincoln's immediate goal was to preserve the Union first, not free the slaves. That didn't mean he was pro-slavery--it meant that he put first things first for the overall good of society. Slaves couldn't be truly free in a "divided Union."

    Proposition 8 and its equivalents in AZ and FL did the same thing. THE FOUNDATION HAS TO BE PRESERVED FIRST. Then we can talk about equitable solutions.

  • Opinion
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:13 a.m.

    Fools who march to win the right to justify their sin.

  • magnus
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:13 a.m.

    Two things

    #1 Getting married is not a "right", being free to choose to be gay and live with your partner is a right.

    #2 Legally, Marraige is whatever the people decide it is, the people have spoken and decided that Marrage is between a man and a woman.

    get over it and go sign up for a common law union or some orther thing that is legally the same as marraige and stop trying to force others to change their centuries old religious traditions.

  • arizona
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:13 a.m.

    Way to go mormons stand up for what you believe. Laugh it up gays your winning my support with your childish behavior..

  • Greg in Japan!!
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:14 a.m.

    I think it is awesome that Proposition 8 passed. It stands for the very principles the world has used since the dawn of time. And it is the way it should be. No rights were taken away. It just brought back the some of the world back to where it needed to be. God bless the people that voted yes. Its nice to know California still has enough people that know the difference between right and wrong.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:15 a.m.

    What scares me is that only 52% have moral convictions.

  • Wayne in El Paso
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:15 a.m.

    Standng up for good will always be subject to critism. In society today, the liberal media and their kin will always line up against anyone with strong religious beliefs. It is typical of Democrats to always take the side of anyone that has views contrary to those of our founding fathers. Why these people so desperately want to destory our society and the values that made this country great is difficult to understand.

  • Wendy
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:17 a.m.

    In the state of California all people have equal rights. There is no discrimination to anyone. Every person has the right to marry their heterosexual mate. All gay and lesbian couples have the legal freedom to marry the partner of their choosing in a domestic partnership. This is recognized in the state of California as having every legal right as a marriage does. This is not about equal rights, what they want is the title of marriage.

  • tourist_bypassing_utah
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:17 a.m.

    We had intially thought about skiing in Utah this winter, but just read about this wrong doing by the Mormon church, supporting Prop 8.
    If it is true or not, we prefer to spend money elsewhere, someplace that does not discriminate
    In these tough times , the traveler does have many
    affordable choices other then Utah.

  • Love not hate
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:17 a.m.

    The actions of a few followers always seem to ruin it for the gay community and a few followers ruin it for the Church's position. Let's be kind. From what I've seen, the leaders of both sides seem reasonable. What would be a compromise solution? Let's think of a beautiful word. Call it "United" for gays with civil rights and "Marriage" for straights with civil rights. Both would need a divorce to dissolve the union. That seems fair!

  • Let the tyrants keep it up
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:18 a.m.

    The Deuce,

    "However, the people voting No on Prop 8 wanted to take this issue to a vote and they got it. This issue is only found in a few states on both the east and west coast of the US. The sleeping giant lives in between. If you want to "bring it on" I am afraid that you may get your wish. Your protests continue to divide and create more hatred. Let's get moving forward and not backward."

    They can keep pushing because it would be easy for us to get 34 state legislatures to agree to call a constitutional convention to define marriage as one man and one woman and it wouldn't be hard for us to get 4 more to agree to it either.

    So I say bring it on because we are prepared to protect our rights. If they keep this up we won't have any other option but to resort to drastic measures and call a national Constitutional Convention.

  • Polynesian Brothers
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:20 a.m.

    I watched the video of our polynesian Brothers at the LA Temple on the internet. I understand they were arrested. It was obvious they were caught up in the heat of the moment and seeing the temple desecrated and the police doing nothing about it. I am not condoning in any way violence toward any person. I hope CA members will make sure they get the best defense they can. These guys did what many of us were feeling. Lets not leave these guys out to dry like the evangelicals have done to the Church for standing up for their faith in the heat of the moment. Please.

  • boldlygo
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:22 a.m.

    This was never, ever about protecting marriage. The YES on 8 people hide their bigotry and small mindness behind church and god. I am reminded of the bumper sticker "If the fetus you save is gay, will you still fight for its rights?

  • presto
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:24 a.m.

    people should be able to love who they want. there are plenty of straight couples that cheat on each other and have pathetic relationships. why should they get more of a right to be together then somebody who actually loves each other. gays aren't going to go away eventually with the world becoming more and more liberal they will get their rights. they ARN'T going to just die away so we should just make it easier and not spend 20 million every year to prolong it.

  • Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:29 a.m.

    I can just imagine all these other Christian churches that have preached anti-Mormonism for years scratching their heads and wondering how the Mormons just saved the CA at the polls!

  • Paul
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:30 a.m.

    Equal rights will prevail. Years of history have proven it.

    While religion supported and excused it. Eventually the slaves were freed.

    While religion supported and excused it. Eventually women were free and not property of their husbands.

    While religion was used to defend it. Eventually interracial couples could marry.

    Equal rights will prevail. And we will not give up. We are here to fight until the end.

  • Fake Prop 8 Protesters...
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:33 a.m.

    The people protesting in Utah are not protesting prop 8, they are people who hate the mormon church. You can always get a bunch of people to come out and protest on any topic as long as its against the mormon churches views.

  • Things that make me go hummmm.
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:35 a.m.

    How can a practice that if truly adhered to would eliminate all those who practice it be something that God would allow on the earth? Last time I checked I takes and man and a woman to make a baby. If gays and lesbians stuck to what they claim to believe is their right, they would never have children and all would die off. HMMMMM. Do what is right let the consequence follow.

  • Boiseguy
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:35 a.m.

    Like I said earlier, this initiative will be overturned and ruled unconstitutional because it is. And then you all who are saying thankyou and spouting rants at gay protestors will be screaming bloody murder about activist judges and whatever other ilk you want to spout. If the judges do their job, and rule the way you don't like.. you attack them and call them activists and rogue judges... The finger pointing can go both ways. and what is right will prevail. Gay marriage will happen in this country. Question is, how will you conduct yourselves when it does happen because it will. Don't forget that there are now 3 other states that allow it. Its not going away. AND california will be the 4th once again when it is presented to the courts. Just like every other minority group fighting for civil rights. They won their cases through the courts. We use to have slave and free states, and wanted to keep it that way and call it states rights. I know everyone think they are right and feel strongly, but if you're fighting gay marriage you will be on the wrong side of history.
    its coming! prepare yourself

  • The NIT
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:43 a.m.

    It's not a right!! You're not denied anything. The members of the LDS Church - and many other churches - have every right to support such an amendment in California and other states. It's just amazing what a half truth can do. Black people in the state and country should be deeply offended for ANY comparisons made to their struggles over the years. It's NOT the same - regardless of what is said by those who have chosen such lifestyles.

  • Prop 8 Volunteer in CA
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:44 a.m.

    What a wonderful opportunity and experience it has been to be part of the passing of Prop 8. It felt wonderful to be a pioneer in protecting the sanctity of marriage for future generations. LDS are only 2% of the population here in CA (800,000 which number includes under the age of 18) and over 5 million Californians voted in the election. I think it is wonderful that when the prophet asked us to support and get involved, LDS were the ones who stepped up and took a stand. I am proud of our efforts and am not shaken ONE BIT by the protests outside our temple. Let them protest all they want. The will of the people have spoken. Thank goodness for the Mormon church for taking a stand on these moral issues. This will only help those who are interested in the church to want to learn more about a church who is not willing to cave to social pressures but are willing to stand for truth and righteousness.

  • why?
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:53 a.m.

    how come there arn't any comments that are good against the gay population. i know alot of gay people and they are good people.

  • Give me liberty or death
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:55 a.m.

    The Associated Press published an article "Utah faces boycott after Mormon work for Prop 8." It outlines the following:

    1) "At a fundamental level, the Utah Mormons crossed the line on this one," said gay rights activist John Aravosis, an influential blogger in Washington, D.C.
    "They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards," he said. "You don't do that and get away with it."

    The proper definition of "bastard" is a child whose biological parents were not married at the time of their birth. So I doubt that any of these children suddenly became bastards.

    2) "There's a movement afoot and large donors are involved who are very interested in organizing a campaign, because I do not believe in frivolous boycotts," and "The main focus is going to be going after the Utah brand," he said. "At this point, honestly, we're going to destroy the Utah brand. It is a hate state."

    They have called for our tax-exempt status to be revoked but we must stand tall and even face the same level of persecution we have in the early Church if necessary. Tax my tithes and you will have to kill me.

  • jesuslovesyou
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:55 a.m.

    right now there is alot of division. but one day everybody will get along. just remember to believe in love. you might not be able to be legally married but know in your hearts that love holds you together.

  • Bob
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:58 a.m.

    I support peaceful demonstrations from anyone but I have a question.
    So help me understand. Gays must not be Christian because God has clearly condemned it in the Bible. So the Gays not being Christian must believe in evolution. Oh but wait if they did they would not exist. So who are you and where do you come from?

    The gays will never march in Compton nor vandalize a church in Compton because the the good people there would protect their property and kick the tar out of them.

  • Jeff
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:58 a.m.

    THIS IS SUCH A STUPID ARGUMENT!!! Take religion out of the equation. Think of it this way. You put 100 homosexuals on an island and return 50 years later. If the population has not grown, then there is something wrong. End of discussion.

  • Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:58 a.m.

    The LA temple is the most beautiful edifice on that Santa Monica Blvd. It is sacred and should be treated with respect.

  • tc
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:08 a.m.

    I'm not sure how many mormons live in California, but the last results that I saw indicated that nearly 5.5 million people voted for proposition 8. I doubt that there are not even close to 1 million mormons of voting age in California - maybe 500,000... so who were the other 5 million that voted to ban same sex marriage? It seems to me, that the 500,000 or so mormons voting mormons in California might actually be the minority that believe marriage is between a man and a woman... but, we happen to be the easiest target... right? I'm not sure what the other churches teach about homosexuality, but I haven't heard of many that promote it.

    I doubt that those that want to take away the churches tax exempt status will be able to show that funds went from members of the church, to the church, and then to activities that directly promoted voting one way or another on prop 8. Members are free to cast their votes any way they want (I voted for Obama.) We all know the church position on marriage, and most of us believe and support it - that's how we vote.

  • Webster's Dictionary
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:11 a.m.

    Marriage -- a : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife b : the mutual relation of husband and wife c : the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family.

    Why have we not heard about rallies around Webster's corporate headquarters?

    Proposition 8 is not about rights, it is about the definition of marriage.

    Anyone sincerely interested in gaining an understanding of the LDS position should go to the Newsroom on lds.org and read the five page statement. There is no discrimination or taking away of rights.

    There are wonderful and faithful gay and lesbian citizens of California who also voted for Proposition 8 along with Christians, Jews, Muslims and those adhering to Asian religions.

    No one has explained or detailed the benefits to society of same sex marriage. What are they? What does history show on this issue?

    To define marriage in any other way serves what purpose? What are the benefits to generations yet to come?

    Please help us understand. What case would you present to your Maker on this issue?

  • millions???
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:24 a.m.

    how come no one is screaming about the millions and millions of "outside" money given to obama in untraceable prepaid credit cards...
    lets be honest, that money didn't come from American's. or people who want to see America survive for that matter!

  • A Person
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:24 a.m.

    This is really frustrating. Ive grown tired of how hateful the Mormons are and how theyre so mean spirited and how dare they take a stance on this. If you dont like it move elsewhere (out of the US). I happen to love many homosexual people, but I still disagree with their opinions and so have 3 states. This is the power of Democracy. Its not bigotry, its not hatred (even though there are many that feel that way), and its not intolerance. Its a big win for democracy and those that stand for the traditional family. I think the biggest bigotry, hatred, and intolerance is directed at the LDS church. They have all the right in the world to disagree. I know many homosexuals are hurt but the voice of the people is clear. We profoundly share the belief of traditional marriage. This is our right.

  • RealistAZ
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:24 a.m.

    The people have spoken. This is not a poltical issue...It is a moral issue. It never should have even been up for vote, it has and always will be wrong. You are different, so stop trying to be like everyone else. The church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saint only told the truth....this is what the majority believe in, that's why you are on the earth. Because your parents believed in it, or you would cease to exist. Take away this fundamental doctrine and humanity will no longer be. All who believe in such practices must not value their own life and the sacredness of their existence

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:25 a.m.

    If you lost the right to practice your religion or love your god, would you give up and move on? This will not end, ever! It will end up in the courts and the 14th amendment will prevail. Plessey vs Ferguson will not stand. This was not a matter of the church or a threat to the church or it's members. Simply intolerance of others!!!
    As a non-profit entity, the church cannot lobby to the governments, but it's members can. The key is whether it legally can instruct the members to lobby for them. The ACLU needs to be involved with this, they are the professionals in matters related to civil liberties and law. Until then, keep being heard, yell, scream, become involved until the fear subsides. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • CA LDS
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:25 a.m.

    I am proud to be CA member of the Church. The protesters are doing exactly what they said "the church did." Instigating bigotry. It is sad that some try to change what has stood the test of time.

  • Simplistic pro-gay logic
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:27 a.m.

    Posted by Scarlet:
    "It was an awesome sight to see people united against discrimination and hatred."

    So, supporting the millenia-old tradition of marriage equals "hatred?" How convenient. This type of rhetoric is not only simple minded, it's outright propaganda. My supporting traditional marriage does not equal hatred for gays - it only signals a respect for marriage. Plain and simple. It's as if you wanted to slap a piece of cheese between two crackers and call it a PB&J sandwich and then label everyone "haters" of crackers and cheese for not agreeing with your culinary revisionism. The arrogance is breathtaking, to say the least.

    "How quickly Mormons forget history and how they were treated. The discriminated become the discriminators!"

    Discrimination is a fact of life - some discrimination is bad, some is good. Unfortunately, the word has taken on a pejorative tone and it's flung about recklessly all too often. If I don't have enough money, I am discriminated against and not able to receive expensive loans. Fine line distinctions are made all the time in real life, and in the case of Prop. 8, many people discriminated on the right side of history, theology, biology, and society.

  • Boycott
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:27 a.m.

    So, let me get this straight. Gays and lesbians are threatening to punish Utah for having a political opinion that differs from theirs by boycotting the state. So no gays and lesbians will visit Utah? I'm still waiting for the punishment part.

    People have to remember a basic definition of being gay. Plain and simple, it's about who you choose to have sex with. At what point did choice of sexual partners morph into minority status and a civil rights issue?

  • tc
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:32 a.m.

    The church has won for now. I'm sure that this issue will come up again and again. Someday, it may be legal. It still won't change my mind as to whether or not it is right. Alcohol is legal. I don't think it is right (and i'm not sure what the "benefit" is to society) but I can still live with it. I don't encourage anyone to drink just because it is legal.

    Same for gay marriage. Even if it is legalized someday, I still won't promote or encourage it. I have friends that are gay. They are nice people. I respect them and their beliefs and opinions. I just don't agree with them. I'm sure they feel the same way about me and my membership in the Mormon church. Whether gay marriage is legal or not, I'll still get along just fine with them. But for now, it's not legal. If they feel so strongly that it should be legal, they should go about things democratically just as those who voted against prop 8 (and most of them were not mormons.) I think most that voted for prop 8 were not gay either. Not a fight between gays/mormons.

  • Tired of the LDS Church
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:36 a.m.

    Why does the LDS Church and it's members try to impose their morals on others? Obviously Mormons feel it's important that it's their duty to make everyone think like they do. Why else would they have such an active missionary program. If you don't believe in same sex marriage, then don't let them get married in your holy temple. Otherwise, why don't you just live your life how you want and allow others to do the same. We would all live happier and longer if we lived by that motto.

  • Brandon
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:37 a.m.

    Civil rights are ALWAYS granted by the courts--never by a majority vote. Prop 8 will be overturned in the courts since it is a blatant violation of their state's consitution designed to protect a minority. As for the LDS church, why don't they spend their money on improving schools or helping the homeless instead of their usual patented brand of hate and fear mongering. What a terrible image this church has made for themselves.

  • Randy
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:38 a.m.

    The reasoning and justification many of the self proclaimed tolerant and open minded Prop 8 opponents use arguing against bisexual marriage and/or two sisters marrying is the exact same reasoning and justification many Prop 8 proponents use arguing against homosexual marriage.

  • Mark
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:39 a.m.

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

  • California Mother
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:43 a.m.

    Gary at 4:56 PM. Thank you for telling the truth on why we fought and worked so hard for Yes on 8.

    This was not about denying rights for those with same gender attraction. Not a single right was taken from you.

    This was about preserving the rights for our children not to be indoctrinated by those who wish to educate our children to their belief system.

    Truly our children are worth the fight and we will continue to fight for them with all that we have.

    We do not hate those who are gay and we are not teaching our children to hate or be intolerant of them. In fact we have dear friends who are gay.

    But we do have to take a stand when someone is trying to destroy the innocence of children.

    My heart truly aches for those good people who I have seen and met over the past weeks on the no on prop 8 side. I feel that you and your relationships have been used by those who want to further the agenda of the destruction of the family and the innocence of children.

  • To: tourist_bypassing_utah
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:02 a.m.

    Sweet, I guess that's at least two less people on the slopes this year. This could turn out to be the best ski season ever. Please keep boycotting!!!

  • Sara in CA
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:03 a.m.

    I wish that people would stop saying that the "church" got this passed. We were asked to contribute and "we" as members did what we have done for years, we followed the leaders. We made the choice. I was not able to give money or time because of an injury but I did cast my vote.

  • One Flush Phil
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:03 a.m.

    Perhaps a bus full of protesters should travel to San Francisco to the California State Supreme Court building and set up their picket line there. After all it was the court that ignored pleas by the Yes on 8 side to postpone the start of gay weddings until after the Nov. election. How hard would it have been to wait 4 more months after waiting 5000 years? I know some gay couples who postponed their "special California wedding" until after the election to see how the court ruling held up against the voters. Since the court did not let common sense rule the day back then, chaos now rules it. Legislating from the bench is not effective governance. When I see the Constitution abused like this and the results that follow, I recall the words of John Adams who said, Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.

  • arc
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:03 a.m.

    the constitution will hang by a thread and orrin hatch will save it

  • Hungry?
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:38 a.m.

    I've been on both sides of this argument at one point in my life and I'd say the LDS members will be eating their words in the next 10 years. The GLBT community will have these rights eventually - it's only a matter of time.

  • John C.
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:51 a.m.

    To Brandon: Just for your information the LDS Church donates to more disasters and charities then any other christian church combined. We do also build schools and travel the world to help bring clean water to villages in Africa. What have you done, but slander and baraide. These protest reminds me of my boy when he was 3 years old and didn't get what he wanted and stomped his little feet on the ground and yeald thinking that would work. How can you people who's abnormal actions and behavior if left to your own devices would slowly distroy yourselfs because you can't creat postarity. How can you expect the rest of us to accept it as normal. Plain and simple its not normal. Your only trying to fool yourselfs.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:03 a.m.

    I've lived in California for 28 years. Prop 8 was on the ballot in California. It amended the California constitution. It applies only to Californians. However, I never knew there was so much concern and interest in our constitution from people in Utah.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:09 a.m.

    To jlc: And just what rights would those be?

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:12 a.m.

    To Pete: ". . . marriage is a religious rite . . ." Try telling that to every fourth person who lives on this planet in the People's Republic of China. Last time I checked there marriages were only between a man and a woman and they are an atheist, secular governed people.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:14 a.m.

    To Blue: You used the words "civil marriage" please define marriage for us.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:17 a.m.

    To 18,000 couples: You can blame the judge for those folks being in limbo as he denied an injuction to put off marrying any of these folks until after the Prop 8 election. They waited for all of recorded history, but couldn't wait another 5 months. Good thinking there judge! No wonder the non-legal world has such contempt for the legal community.

  • Hey Bob
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:20 a.m.

    I'll tell you why the protests aren't happening in Compton, East LA, Santa Ana and Watts...because the protesters would have the snot pounded out of them and that would be the end of the protest.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:21 a.m.

    To Worship: No one was compelled to send money for Prop 8. Ops, I stand corrected. The California Teachers Associations took money from every teachers paychekc fot the No on 8 campaign, not voluntarily but by coercion.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:23 a.m.

    To John Thompson: The rights of homosexuals was not determined by popular vote; the definition of marrriage was amended into the constitution.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:24 a.m.

    To Re:Re: Rights: You used the term "homosexual marriages." Please define marriage for us.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:26 a.m.

    To Emma: ". . . the Supreme Court in 1967 wrote that marriage is a fundatmental human right . . ." Please define marriage for us.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:31 a.m.

    To Anonymous of 5:12 p.m.: Source please that members of the LDS church gave $20 million for Prop 8. The California Secretary of State publishes by law all contributions for and against propostions and in the interest of transparency discloses the donors name, city, occupation and amount. There is no information on religious affiliation. So again, you source please.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:33 a.m.

    To Bodymed: I am not even going to reply to your post as others have adequately beat me to it.

  • Phillip C. Smith
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:33 a.m.



    Anger over the status of marriage in society is unfortunate. We need thoughtful discussions based on reasoned empirical studies rather than verbal blasts, epithets like bigot or homophobe or hostile confrontations.

    As a sociologist (Ph.D., Stanford University) I find that scientifically-valid studies support the need of society to recruit and prepare the next generation the best way possible. Professors I knew at Stanford who studied the issue ranged from liberal to moderate-conservative. They indicated that the best unit for preparing the next generation consists of an adult male and female who love and are committed to each other, and in turn love and properly care for children born to or adopted into their union. Heterosexuals marrying during non-child-bearing years also uphold by example this ideal. We should hold to and encourage all others to do so. Social responsibility should replace selfishness. If we truly want to help children, nothing but the best should do. Supporters of traditional marriage have valid science on their side.

    Phillip C. Smith, Ph.D.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:34 a.m.

    To Are they equal?: Define marriage and you will get your answer.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:38 a.m.

    To Talisyn: Don't put any stock in websites that supposedly ID LDS donors. They are totally unreliable. There is no vetting to determine if they are LDS donors or not. You, I or the Man in the Moon good e-mail them and say everyone on the list was LDS and they would publish it as true.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:40 a.m.

    To Former Salt Laker: FYI Saddleback Church in South Orange County is having a demonstration this weekend by the gay community. Perhaps you have heard of their pastor, Rick Warren. They held a debate with John McCain and Barack Obama earlier this year.

  • Scott M
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:51 a.m.

    I see a lot of comoents here about how the church supported this Prop..

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the church's only stance in political arenas is that we should be involved and make our votes count. they never did tell us to back any individual thing or person. They just said to be counted.

    as far as prop. 8 goes, i am for passing the ban. I am an LDS member, but in no way does the church support and moreover encourage me to attack another group for their beliefs. Maybe a lot of money did come from LDS members, but they weren't encouraged to do that from church officials.

    Like the Bishop of the Catholic church said, I encourage you to accept the decision of the California people and accept the law as it was passed.

  • Ehhh...
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:22 a.m.

    You all need a good washing and annointing.

  • Lynn
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:24 a.m.

    Say what! Where did these people come up with the figure $20,000,000.00 from the Mormons? Wow! That would be quite a feat, considering that we only have 13,000,000 members, world wide! I seriously doubt that most of us have that kind of money, especially since a good share of the membership are children!!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:49 a.m.

    The church didn't win.

    God did.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 5:26 a.m.

    I have had three different people tell me that they went to Halloween parties dressed as Mormon missionaries, thousands of miles from CA. The LDS Church's efforts on behalf of Prop 8 has, rightly or wrongly, turned many people off to the Church to the point of ridicule. I'm torn about all of this.

  • Jason
    Nov. 8, 2008 5:28 a.m.

    To all of you who say the LDS church had nothing to do with this you are all liars! The church did donate tithing funds to this cause and everyone knows it. A church who wants to keep their tax exempt status is supposed to never influence anyone on any piece of legislation. The church has every right to council members but when it councils on legislation it has crossed the line. It's members are also citizens of this country and trying to influence them on matters of civil issues is breaking the tax law pure and simple. You all tell us to accept the will of the people. Bullcrap! Our rights have been taken away from us. We pay our taxes and are still told to shut up you perverts and accept your fate. NO WE WILL NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Activist judges my foot! They are all conservative/Republican judges appointed by Republican leaders. The purpose of a supreme court is to protect the minority from the the tyranny of the majority. The courts did their job. To even create a prop. like this is in itself tyranny and will one day be punished! All of you have lost.

  • kidnephi
    Nov. 8, 2008 5:41 a.m.

    I live on the Ease Coast, but was raised in Utah. I am a life long member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have seen many protests against the Church come and go and "this to shall pass". It is sad that people will not take the time to really investigate the "Mormon" church and its doctrines. To much is relied on hearsay, innuendo, second hand information, and other information from disgruntled ex-members. As has been stated, the doctrine of the church will not change, marriage between same sex individuals will not be santioned by the LDS Church.
    Please read the "Family Proclamation" for the Church's STAND. These protesters would better serve the community by giving of their time and talents to serving others as Jesus Christ would do. As Jesus Christ told the adulterous woman, "go and sin no more". He did not condemn her.

  • kidnephi
    Nov. 8, 2008 5:42 a.m.

    That is I live on the "East Coast".

  • Revoke tax exempt status
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:05 a.m.

    The IRS should begin investigations immediately to determine if the tax code has been violated. If so, regardless of religious organization their tax exempt status should be revoked.

    IRS code:

    "Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."

  • Adam & Eve
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:06 a.m.

    One Man and one Woman that God broght to earth and replenish the earth and be happy. Keep it that way.

  • heleninoz
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:21 a.m.

    In reply to 'Overturn8'. "You are asking for equal rights". You already have that. I marry a person of the opposite sex and you can marry a person of the opposite sex. That's fair isn't it? Nothing unequal about that!

  • Kermit
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:29 a.m.

    The LDS Church deserves the nation's gratutue for strongly opposing the destruction of marriage. However let's not forget that MOST Americans favor the only sane position on marriage. Did you notice that 70% of Black voters in CA voted for Prop 8?

  • Molly Pritchard
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:35 a.m.

    How wonderful to know the homosexuals will be boycotting Utah. Now if we can just get them to boycott Virginia, we may have a chance to remain a red state. Any suggestions?

  • Judges
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:36 a.m.

    Whether this specific issue or any other, any time a judge tries to create law from the bench, the citizens should stand up against that ruling.

    Jugdes do not make laws! That is for the legistlative branch.

    When did the Rule of Law become so off base in this country?

  • Voter
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:44 a.m.

    All Mormons did in CA was vote and seek to persuade others to vote as they did. This is exactly what anti-prop 8 groups did. There's no seperation of church and state issue.

    Incidentally, these "protesters" are targetting the LDS church because they can get away with it. What other religious group can be targeted like this without stirring a national media outcry?

    These two fact tell us a great deal about anti-prop 8 groups.

  • Tooele
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:47 a.m.

    Did they protest the Catholics or the Blacks or the Hispanics who voted overwhelmingly for the amendment? Why not?

  • Doug
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:48 a.m.

    Life style choices should not be confused with Civil Rights. Many of us who are white and were involved in the heat of the Civil Rights movement, for people of different races, in the sixties understand this principle. A good number of us, along with the vast majority of black and latino voters in California, apparently understand.

    There is certainly some underlying drive in this demonstrated passion of those who have chosen to forego the ability to create a family to adopt the traditonal family beginning title of married, but it is definetly not about a Civil Right. It is promoting a life style. When life style choices become the basis of Civil Rights the rights of civilized people will be at an end. We can all be thankful a majority of Californians saw through the convoluted "rights" arguments and hatred towards Proposition 8 supporters to vote for the sensible definition of marriage. Despite the loss gays still have the fundamental rights of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in this good country. The focus of their displeasure on one group of a coalition is frighteningly similar to a German Parties actions in the 30's.

  • stay focused
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:50 a.m.

    Said President Harold B. Lee:

    You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may conflict with your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow Lets keep our eye on the President of the Church. (Conference Report, October 1970, p. 152153.)

    But it is the living prophet who really upsets the world. Even in the Church, said President Kimball, many are prone to garnish the sepulchres of yesterdays prophets and mentally stone the living ones. (Instructor, 95:527.)

    Why? Because the living prophet gets at what we need to know now, and the world prefers that prophets either be dead or worry about their own affairs. Some so-called experts of political science want the prophet to keep still on politics. Some would-be authorities on evolution want the prophet to keep still on evolution. And so the list goes on and on.

    How we respond to the words of a living prophet when he tells us what we need to know, but would rather not hear, is a test of our faithfulness.

  • Protest Bastian
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:50 a.m.

    How about going and protesting Bruce Bastian who donated over $1 million against the proposition? That was the biggest Utah monetary influence. Aren't all you former Word Perfect employees pleased to see your hard work is being spent on something so worthwhile?

  • Too Late
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:51 a.m.

    Why do this protest now? It would have been more strategic to do this back when the LDS Church first started encouraging people to donate money. Now you just look bitter.

  • Ken from Galt
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:56 a.m.

    Follow the money folks. Where did the majority of the money come from to promote prop 8? The answer: members of the LDS church. Sure other churches and their membership were supportive, but not to the same extent as the Mormons.

  • Dewaine M. Brown
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:57 a.m.

    Three comments:
    #1. Free agency is a powerful needed element in life. How it is used determines our destiny.

    #2.The fruit of this decade were the result of seeds sown in former decades.

    #3. Taken to extremes, one man and one women in marriage create a continuation of the human species in its normal trend.
    Taken to extreme, same sex unions would in time terminate the human species.

  • Balthasar
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:58 a.m.

    Hey what's all the fuss about? Oh yeah, gay-"rights" activists are trying to DROWN OUT the constitutionally-protected free-speech rights of the Church (and other anti-change-the-definition-of-marriage supportors). Does that make sense?

    For those who truly care about rights - rather than shouting and villifying others for exercising THEIR rights, go through proper legal channels and pass laws. That's all Californians, Arizonans and Floridians did - they went through the established, constitutional LEGAL process and got what they wanted.

    Having said that, nobody is against human rights here. It is a lie to claim that pro-Prop 8 = hatred and bigotry. It is a lie to claim that Church involvement in fighting for what it believes is a violation of the separation of Church and State. Chanting those things over and over again - even 10,000 times - does not change lies into truth.

  • Carl
    Nov. 8, 2008 6:58 a.m.

    If it were not for the Mormons, the whole nation would be in deep doo-doo. Call the gay and lesbian community next time there is a natural disaster. For all the criticism, they are the only ones that stand for what is right. Sooner or later, it will be all churches against the one. And you know which one I mean. I hope Mr. Whipple, who planned to marry in April is saving himself for marriage. I don't even want to know if he jumped the....shark.

  • Sam
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:01 a.m.

    Why do I keep reading that the "Mormon's" are trying to impose their morals onto a people? Seems a deadlock, as the homosexual community is trying to force their morals onto the world. And no the "mormon Church" didn't "win this one" the voter did, that is until the courts take away their votes again.

  • be informed
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:02 a.m.

    Voters of Prop 8 needed to be informed about the issue by both sides in order to make an conscious decision. The vote was taken, the majority has spoken. In CT, very little information was given about the Constitution Convention. It was portrayed as an evil definately VOTE NO! I didn't even know what it was until the church members informed me (a way to fight back on the recently adopted law that legalized gay marriages.) It didn't pass and we are stuck with legalized gay marriages.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:18 a.m.

    I too am LDS and love the church. I have to chime in here though because so many people seem baffled as to why all these people are so upset with our church and not the other groups that oppose gay marriage. They are upset because it is estimated that members of the church are estimated to have contributed 40% of the money to fight prop 8. I do think that many in our church show an amazing degree of intolerance toward homosexuals. I know that it's viewed as a sin and yes, I too believe that will be the judgement in the end, but there are hundreds of thousands of church members that participate in sexual relations with members of the opposite sex outside of marriage which is sin also and nobody looks at them as a threat to society. I think many members think they have an inside track on judging what is the bigger sin. Get off your self-righteous horse......sin is sin is sin....let's let God be the judge and love all of our brothers and sisters.

  • Calif Resident that Saw it all.
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:22 a.m.

    !!!!! That's all folks. The votes are counted. I don't believe that the hatred they exhibited in this has been matched in US history for any proposition. Spitting on campaigners, single finger waving, cussing, screaming, pushing, chasing those knocking on doors, and the horrible lists go on & on. The public is losing whatever tolerance they did have for them due to their hate-filled "demand" for it. One of our friends had their tail-lights broken out the day they put a bumper sticker on their car. Another had "No on 8" keyed into the whole side of their car. Now marching on the Mormon Temples? Defacing them?? How much more creatively can they spell "HATRED & INTOLERANCE?" Their rainbow colors are truly showing now. One color for each of their hate filled activities. Hang in there Mormons. The troops are coming to help you and the opposition is blowing the horn FOR you! (My signs were stolen several time...I kept spares on hand constantly. I am sooo glad I DID!!!)

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:22 a.m.

    Arc you can't be serious....

  • 2%
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:22 a.m.

    Mormons make up 2% of California's population, so who are the other 52.7% voters? (That's assuming ALL Mormons voted on this issue). I, a Mormon, would have supported Prop 8 whether the Church encouraged me to do so or not. A lot of us fear the judgments of God rather than the judgments of disrespectful people writing on the walls of our temples. But I do know there are good men and women out there, who oppose our views, and show respect, thank you to those.

  • Romans 1:24-32
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:27 a.m.

    Scripture, literally being fulfilled.

  • abcd
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:28 a.m.

    As has been said, the vast majority of people who voted against changing the definition of marriage to include homosexual couples were not Mormon. Protesting is a great right, just be consistent and go protest in African-American communities, Latino communities, Baptist churches, Catholic churches, etc. Of course, it won't happen. Everyone knows the LDS Church is used to gain attention. The Church didn't come out with some new revelation against gay marriage. Their views have existed much longer than many of these people have been gay. It is important that we tolerate the homosexual community and it's rights. Just call your view of a coupled relationship something different. It's not marriage. I don't have a problem with what you call your realtionship, just don't try and change the name of what my heterosexual relationship is called. It's that simple.

  • Lin in tn
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:28 a.m.

    The people have spoken. This is our system. Move on.

  • Johane
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:40 a.m.

    Well, we can't really be suprised about Gays making a spectacle about this can we? Its what they do.

  • Don't Support Either
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:45 a.m.

    Marriage is stupid. It is a license to be miserable and be at the expense of the woman. Let the gays get married. Let them have the benefits of nasty divorse. They have the right to be just as miserable as us "straight" people.

    Not only do I not support gay marriage, I don't support straight marriage either.....

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:47 a.m.

    i think that many in the gay and strait communities have shown they've exercised their rights, and 3 of the most important: the right of free speech, the right of peaceful assemblage and the right to vote. How many countries in this world grant those freedoms/rights? I'm glad that members of several churches contributed their time and money to fight for a cause they believe in. I'm glad to see people of all groups passionate about issues. This time, the right issue prevailed, the right prevailed and it always will.

  • Californian
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:49 a.m.

    Bishop William Weigand, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Sacramento, Calif., is right on when he said:

    "I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live by their own words and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to exercise tolerance for those who differ from them,"

    The biggest irony is that if all California Mormons who voted Yes on Prop8 had voted No, Prop 8 still would have passed. There are only 750,000 Mormons in CA, half or more are children; half or more are non-participating, so at best you had 100,00 to 200,000 Mormons who voted Yes. Prop 8 passed by more than 500,000 votes, with more than 5.5 million voting yes.

    Why then does the no on 8 crowd think they should attack a small minority group with bigoted hatefull attacks.

    If you want to attack the group that passed prop 8, go to innercity LA and attack the Latinos. Go to Oakland and protest against the Black Churches. But that wouldn't be politically correct, would it? Why donesn't the no on 8 crowd just get the CA legislature to pass an extermination order on the Mormons like others did in the 1800s.

  • Granny5
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:49 a.m.

    Gays do not want special rights - they want equal rights. I have nothing against them having a union where their property, their adopted or natural children are protected and their campanions are given the right of inheriting, insurance rights at workplace, and the right to visit in the ICU (deathbed rights). They are human and created by the same God as I. Their blood runs reds, same as others. Do not condemn - and remember "judgement is mine - sayeth the Lord". Some people need to practice what they preach. I saw a sign at the protest last night (on TV) that sums it up for me "Straight - but not narrow." Let each seek their own happiness - gays are not a threat to traditional families - let us embrace them and make them welcome into our lives and homes.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:51 a.m.

    I have friends who are gay and as a lds member, while I don't support their lifestyle, I respect their choice since they are my friends. They have the right to protest as well the church and its member had the right to support Preposition 8.

    But.....

    Nobody has the right to vandalize private property. So, if somebody tries to spray the walls of the temple, be sure I am not around.

  • Educate yourself
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:53 a.m.

    It is difficult to determine if the lack of education expressed on this issue is humorous or just sad. Many of those who shout "foul" or "lies" are obvioisly dissapointed, but more obviously uninformed of the facts. You have the internet. You can look up the foundational court cases that led to your doom. It is not in your best interest to scare straight Americans with law suits and such which sadly is what has happened. Be intelligent enough to see that. I think that you will find, and hopefully so, that members of this religion will give you a shoulder to cry on to help you through difficult times, but redefining marriage is a long entrenched ideology that will not change easily. Are you sure you have the... Stamina?

  • JA
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:54 a.m.

    Being gay is a choice.....period. Deal with it. You are not a minority...deal with it.

  • RE: Boiseguy @ 12:35 a.m.
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:54 a.m.

    Have you ever read the Tenth Amendment of the Constitution?! California is able to decide this on its own because it is a power that is NOT enumerated for the federal government by the Constitution.

    I believe there are now 30 states that have protected the definition of marriage, the most recent additions being CA, AZ, and FL. Do you see a trend?

    The GLBT community has domestic partnerships in CA and civil unions in other states. Why is that not good enough?! If there's a problem on the federal level, seek to add "Civil Union" or "Domestic Partnership" to the federal code instead of seeking to change the definition of marriage.

    You are trying to legislate the approval of a preference, not a right. If you want to live in love, nobody is stopping you by securing the definition of marriage as being between a man and a woman only. Go ahead and speak your mind according to your First Amendment rights. You are free to do so. Just realize that traditional marriage will continue to stand the test of time, because we will stand up for it!

  • Steve
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:55 a.m.

    I, like so many of you here, am strongly in favor of Proposition 8. However, I grudgingly admit that these people DO have a right to protest.

    Also, has anyone but me noticed that these rights are more and more frequently being used against the church? First the protest at President Hinckley's funeral, and now this. These people need to get a life and realize that democracy means the majority of THE people, not the majority of YOUR people.

  • Bikermom
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:55 a.m.

    If the real issue was support for gay marriage, I could buy that. But it goes much deeper. The gay/lesbian agenda is to change what is taught in our schools, to have our children indoctrinated with the gay lifestyle, to change a generation's understanding of traditional marriage and families. Gee, in a couple of generations the human population would begin decreasing. Unless, of course, artificial insemination became the norm to perpetuate life. The gays/lesbians want to change a generation by infiltrating our schools, court system and the very fabric of our traditional society, and then indoctrinate our children with the gay/lesbian lifestyle. If they don't get their way, they oppose open voting -- or make it illegal to home school -- or take away parents' rights to choose what is taught in public schools. Don't talk to me about tolerance and acceptance. It is your way or the highway. America has gone way beyond reason to ensure the rights of those with alternative lifestyles and beliefs. But each time you get a concession, you demand something else -- taking away another right of the traditional, God-fearing people of this country. Where does it end???

  • Christy
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:57 a.m.

    In response to the second comment made that being gay does not give entitle you to rights and the history of marriage....

    Thousands of years have also denied women the right to own property and the right to vote.

    Thousands of years have also upheld racial discrimination and subjugating minorities to actual or quasi slavery.

    Simply because historical analysis supports a particular position does not entitle that position to an unquestionable and unamendable status. Civil rights and women's rights have shown that past discrimination was simply wrong.

  • Can't change Science
    Nov. 8, 2008 7:57 a.m.

    Two Plans were proposed in the Council in Heaven. A war was fought that resulted in 1/3 of our brothers and sisters forever loosing their ability to have a body and to procreate. The battle rages on today with millions choosing the same state. No matter how we vote or what the courts rule, no matter how we fight for or defend our point of view, no matter how we dress, cut our hair, or change our bodies, no two women in any kind of civil union, marriage, or sexual relationship or no two men in any kind of civil union, marriage, or sexual relationship, will ever procreate. Neither Heterosexuals nor Homosexuals can change science; not one whit.

  • CB
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:00 a.m.

    Please tell me what is the difference between "hating a mormon' and 'hating a gay'? Wouldn't they both be hate crimes? Where in Prop 8 was the word 'hate'?

  • NEXT TIME
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:08 a.m.

    Next you need to go protest at all the houses in California that actually voted for it. See ya in California!!

  • Steve again
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:09 a.m.

    Also, it's just a tad bit hypcritical to rant and rave about how you are being discriminated against, and then single out one single church, especially one thaat probably had little or no effect on the outcome of the vote. Prop 8 would have passed without the LDS church. SO why do you protest against us, huh? WHy not somebody who had an effect on the outcome? I am of the opinion that these people are really just seeking to complain.

  • You're Kidding, Right?
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:09 a.m.

    I find it amusing and a bit perplexing that members of a church would protest its church's official stance on a moral issue. Are you kidding me?

    Either the church is wrong on its stance, and you therefore are dumb to continue your membership in it (because if it's wrong, it ain't a "true" church), OR YOU are wrong. I don't see any in between here. Not on an issue like this. It's pretty cut-and-dried as far as this church is concerned.

  • XPolygamistWife
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:16 a.m.

    I hope America strips the LDS and FLDS of their 501 (c)(3) tax exempt status. The LDS and FLDS are hate-based organizations.

  • My LDS apology to gays
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:16 a.m.

    Before having a gay son, I spoke against the so-called "gay agenda" with the passion of certainty that comes from righteously defending my LDS faith and God. I was not consciously aware of the hateful homophobia in my rants then any more than I was years before when I unconsciously parroted LDS racist views of Black worthiness prior to the priesthood change. Also, to ask gays to be content with civil union laws is like asking Blacks Mormons in 196o to be content with baptism and association when they wanted full acceptance and temple marriage. Yesterday I heard an LDS leader say that present persecution was a repeat of past trials for today's members. I suppose he meant those earlier days when Mormon leaders were defining marriage as between one man and more than one women. Victimology is in the DNA of our LDS historical memory. Earlier Mormons were just as blind to how their actions were a push that brought pushback as some present members seem to be. But alas, victimology has its benefits if used well. It paints the other as wrong, affirms the self as right, and now garners sympathy from historical religious foes.

  • Cody Derrick
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:17 a.m.

    I was in the thick of it all last night. I feel like we will look back on that moment someday and recognize it as a life changing, state changing, law changing, and life changing moment in our history. I was born and raised Mormon, went on a mission and was engaged to be married in the temple before I came out. Over the last 8 years my affiliation with the church was tied only to my name remaining on their records. When I read the article in the Tribune 2 weeks ago Sunday that spoke of the LDS churches involvement in Proposition 8, I decided it was time to go. It was perfectly fitting that the day before the protest at the temple I received the letter freeing me from the church that I have grown to more completely understand over the last 29 years. I was able to walk in the streets last night with a free conscious. Had I been there, knowing that I was technically still a part of them the night would have been bitter sweet. Thank God- it was just sweet.

  • Just doesn't seem to work
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:22 a.m.

    I have been trying to hook up an LPG Projecter for awhile now but I can't get it to work. Both the cords I have are "male" cords and they will not fit together. I need one "male" cord and one "female" cord to make it work. GO FIGURE

  • JW
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    luvswoman: I guess what you are saying is that to be the 'true church' you have to change with the whims of the people on the earth at that time. So... you want a God that changes with the wind??? You want a church that says that gay marriage is acceptable in God's sight. Sorry, that isn't going to happen because God has said clearly that it is NOT right and never will be because he is unchanging. If you think the 'true church' is one that will tell the people what they are doing is right no matter what it is just so it won't face opposition from people like you, then you can find them on every street corner, help yourself.
    I am glad though that the people who disagree with the majority vote chose to protest peacefully instead of defacing property, and posting hateful and disgusting videos.
    Question: Please answer this for your group: Why are you targeting the LDS church? Please once and for all someone answer that question. Why won't anyone answer this???

  • Himself
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:26 a.m.

    Great, one more reason for the locals to revert to the herd. These are are nervous bunch here, please do
    not disturb them.

  • CHRIS D
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    Arguing with homosexuals is a useless adventure. They aren't right in the head - they can't see the failure of their own position: They argue for the right to practice their ways, as a matter of survival, when their ways (without the help of heterosexuals or scientists) will ultimately destroy them.

    When someone pleads for a position that will ultimately destroy them, arguing with them is useless.

    Teach. Vote. Pray. (Not necessarily in that order)

  • what?
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    "As we did in 2000, Californias have overwelming choosen to support traditional marriage and rejected the rulings of activist judges."

    I would hardly call a 52% majority "overwhelming". Obama's victory was overwhelming, not this one. California should be ashamed for having a process that allows ANY amendment be passed with a simple majority vote.

  • Dion in So Cal
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    Whatever. Where were all these so called "supporters" when it was a good time to rally, like BEFORE the election? Prop 8 passed fair and square, period. Stop the madness, homosexuality is not a civil right, it is simply deviant behavior just like someone who is unfaithful to their spouse or children. Stop trying to say evil is good and good is evil. All of us who faught hard to win here in CA did so because it was the right thing to do. And we did it at the "right time". Just a bunch of sore losers.

  • Demented
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:27 a.m.

    Let me see if I understand these sick people. They engage in homosexual behavior that is completely unnatural and truly demented, and then demand that everyone give them special "rights" to sanction their behavior? And when the voice of the majority of the people always comes out against such filthy and disgusting people (as in CA), then they take to the streets as if protesting will override millenia of social norms and really what should be the bare minimum of standards of decency for any civilization? These gays are not only sick and filthy, they amply demonstrate their low intellectual abilities as well. Even their protests are demented and filthy.

  • Frances Cervantes
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:28 a.m.

    Protest is part of the political system and a peaceful protest is a healthy political expression. I stand with all those gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual and enlightened straights who recognize the persecution and bigotry that masquerades behind "christian" theology.

  • bk
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:28 a.m.

    Let freedom ring! The people (not just the Mormons) have spoken. The freedom of choice through the process is a 2-way street! Long live our the democratic right.

  • Me
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:28 a.m.

    Wow! Rocky was there? Man! How did I miss that? Rocky Anderson! I'll bet that was inspiring. What was I thinking? I think I will take a minute and just chant to myself and see if that gets me in the groove....rocky...ROCKY...nope. Can't believe I missed him. Dang.

  • socalmon
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:30 a.m.

    Here in California, the news media mentions that the Church members donated lots of money for Prop.8. But what they don't tell you is of the millions that was donated to defeat Prop. 8, from very large corporations in the S.F. Bay area, such as Pacific Gas and Electric, AT&T, Wells Fargo, even the California Teachers Association. No, the media just mentions that the gay activists are now out to shame prominant LDS donators. I say shame on these corporations for using their money, of which I pay into as a customer, for something I don't stand for. Even the Democratic Party, and of course, the unions, got involved in trying to defeat it, but to no avail. Maybe we should use our clout with these types of businesses that we deal with, in order to offset their boycotts.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:32 a.m.

    The population of california is 36,457,549. If we assume (unrealistically) that all of those people voted then that would mean that 18,957,925 (eighteen million, nine hundred fifty seven thousand, nine hundred twenty five) people voted in favor of the proposition. It also means that 1,458,301 more people voted for the ban than voted against it. One can hardley say that the church did this, it was the people who spoke. Period.

  • Good Vs Evil
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:32 a.m.

    I personally love my brothers and sisters who have chosen to participate in homosexual activities. But just because I love them does not mean I have to condone and sanction their immoral behavior.

    The homosexual community has the right to call evil good and I have the right to call evil evil. Homosexuality is a sin, has always been a sin and will always be a sin. Even when they finally are able to convince the majority of society to call evil good they are still not going to be at peace and find happiness in their behavior.

    If they want to continue to commit their sins they have the right to do so, just please stop asking me to condone and sanction their behavior by pushing for a state recognized marriage.



  • Ken
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:33 a.m.

    To Mr. luveswomen

    Do you realize that if it had not passed and truly became law, that gay marriage would share in every classroom on courtship and marriage, parenting and family life? Do you want your young children exposed to that? I have no problem with gay's and gay rights. We have gays in our own family and enjoy being with them and respect their rights, but I don't want that influence to be openly talked about to my wonderful grand children, like it was the norm. I want my children/grand children to identify with daddy and mommy, not mommy and aunt Jane. Thank God that the proposition passed and the true traditional family can still hold their heads up high and be proud of God's idea of what a family really is.

  • Walk the Walk
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:36 a.m.

    I am delusional or aren't other churches involved in this issue also? Does the Catholic church, Baptist church and other christian denominations that are Bible based churches believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman? WHY ARE YOU CASTING THE BLAME ON THE MORMONS? Is it because they have been more organized and vocal in support of their beliefs? IS THIS STILL THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

    Come on people. Walk the walk. If it is what you believe, you still have the right to say it. Peacefully.

  • mary
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:36 a.m.

    When this eventually hits the church where it counts (in their wallet),
    they will receive another high-profile "revelation." It may take a while
    but sooner or later, their pocketbooks will take a hit. (Can you say
    "Take the church" ? Tax all churches.

  • Practical
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:38 a.m.

    Wow! I decided to do a little bit of math. As of 2007 the LDS Church had about 750,000 members in CA. 10.24 million people voted in the election, and approx. 5.2 million in favor of the ban. That means that if every LDS Man Woman and child were able to vote and did 4.45 million people still voted in favor of the amendment. The LGBT communty has made the LDS people thier wipping boy becuase they weren't smart enough to voice thier opinion before the election. They are barking up the wrong tree. If they want to be accepted They need to change thier own image(Its tough to relate to the image of a 250 Lbs man dressed as dorthy). I do not believe the LDS church will ever change its stand on the definition of marriage. For them it is far more sacred an issue than in most religions. But if the LGBT community want the practical benifits of marriage (IE: tax, care, ETC.) without the name i doubt that they will stand in the way. They may even find an ally when comes to thing besides the definition of marrage.

  • Financial view
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:38 a.m.

    Strictly financial and sticking to facts. If same sex mariages were to take place there would be tax breaks for the same sex married couples. However those couples cannot produce offspring. So they would take tax breaks but not feed back in to the system. It takes offspring to continue a workforce and a tax base for the future. It does not seem fair that man and woman relationships would have to fill that void.

  • Re: Your Post is Offensive
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:40 a.m.

    Amen, brother. I could not possibly have said it better myself.

  • Jam
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:41 a.m.

    I LOVE IT! THINK OF ALL THE PRESS THE CHURCH IS GETTING! BAPTISMS ARE GOING TO SOAR!

  • aaa
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:42 a.m.

    5,424,916 voted for Prop 8. Last time I checked there weren't that many Mormons in CA. Perhaps the gay groups should see that this goes a little deeper than support from the LDS church.

  • Eagle Tail Speaks
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    What?
    You want me to politically "normalize" a behavior that I believe to be morally wrong? I ain't gonna do it! I can not help. I will not help.

  • California
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:50 a.m.

    Gay rights activists are trying so hard to make this an equal rights issue likening themselves to women and blacks. The difference is that it ISN'T immoral to be a woman and it ISN'T immoral to be black. It IS immoral to be a practicing homosexual. Wrong is wrong.

    What about sexual predators or those who are 'genetically' prone to violence? Are these people, "who can't help it," entitled to equal rights too?

    There is no such thing as being genetically gay. There might be a tendency there, but we ALL have a choice.

    If one is Christian, one cannot accept that God on one hand will say that being homosexual is an abomination and on the other create people that are gay. God is fair and just and will not ask us to do anything we cannot do.

    We cannot let alternative lifestyles that degrade a moral society bully or intimidate society.

    Let's continue to stand up for what is right.


  • Civil Rights?
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    Please be aware of the hateful agenda of the people who pervert the use of orifices. Please note that they demonize the LDS Church for its support of Prop 8 while speaking softly of the dignified support of other Christian groups of Prop 8. This strategy is as old (and effective) as civilization itself--DIVIDE AND CONQUER! First, separate the most vocal and active of the opposition, in this case the LDS Church, from others of like mind, weaken the opposition by pealing them off one by one. Yesteryear, I learned in Civics class (no longer taught, too American) that the Frenchman Alexis deToqueville opined that America is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. So gird up your loins, put on the whole armor of God, the barbarians are at the gate. This battle will rage on, it will be long and unyielding against people who clamor for tolerance but have none for anyone else. It's not tolerance they want but rather to indoctrinate.

  • Go Jazz
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    Hey enough will all this gay marriage talk Jerry just got his 1000th win. That's what is truly important.

  • My oldest son
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:54 a.m.

    He worked very hard in Orange county where he lives and works to get prop 8 passed. He said at one time he respected gays but not any longer as the abuse he and others had to suffer even prior to the vote was disgusting and something no person should have to experience. I personally object to allowing sodomy to be enshrined in law and to call it marriage. To allow gays to marry sends a terrible message to all children. The risks of more power to the gay agenda is scary. More activist judges will trample on the rights and freedoms of moral expression in opposition to homosexuality. I am proud of LDS for their line in the stand. People everywhere will come to know who REALLY has moral standards and has the backbone to stand up for our Biblical(and Book of Mormon) moral teachings.The reason the LDS Church is taking the brunt here is because Satan knows all too well who he hates the most and who will fight back against evil.

  • JW
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:54 a.m.

    tourist-bypassing-utah? Goodness. How immature. So let me think???? Everyone one Utah is mormon and everyone in utah is a bigot and everyone in utah owns the ski slopes? Yes! you are really thinking straight here!!
    Utah will really feel pain because of your stupidity!!

  • Unpersuaded
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:56 a.m.

    "As for the LDS church, why don't they spend their money on improving schools or helping the homeless instead of their usual patented brand of hate and fear mongering?"

    The LDS do spend their money as you suggest. I disagree that picketing constitutes a superior form of humanitarian service.

  • Abraham
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    I as a veteran and an American support and I am willing to defend the Constitution of the United States.
    Under the constitution we are given the freedom to practice our religion. Those that would denigh that right should be called terrorists.

  • RE:Boise guy
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    So in your opinion the vote of the people of the sate of California doesn't matter..I've never seen a bigger group of cry babies in my life..You lost get over it. I haven't been an active memember of the LDS church for years..But the courage of the church in this last episode has made me rethink my inactivity..Oh and I will go striaght down to the temple if the church needs my support.

  • Manderly
    Nov. 8, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    I was trying to think when LDS Church members have gone en mass to California (BYU football notwithstanding) and the Church has made direct contributions... oh yeah... all those wildfire, earthquake, and flood cleanups.

  • Straight Guy for Gay Rights
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:00 a.m.

    I wonder how Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have felt about this? Persecuting a group because you don't agree with them....eliminating their rights to be happy.

    The LDS church is anti-gay, no question about it! I would love someone to give me a good reason why marriage must be between a man and woman. Don't give me the "thats how God set it up crap". I want a really good reason that explains to me how it impacts your life.

  • Sadly
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:00 a.m.

    The smugness expressed by many of the Mormon apologizers on this board is rather sickening. And you call yourselves Christians?

  • Frank Kameny
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:01 a.m.

    We are interested in obtaining rights for our respective minorities as Negroes, as Jews, and as Homosexuals. WHY we are Negroes, Jews, or Homosexuals is totally irrelevant, and whether we can be changed into Whites, Christians or heterosexuals is equally irrelevant.

  • jw
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:02 a.m.

    Tired of the LDS church. Does that mean you are tired of the Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, etc etc. They voted against it too and evidently think marriage should remain between a man & a woman.

  • You Gotta Be Kidding
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:03 a.m.

    Really! This is the strangest protest ever. If it weren't so terrifying, it might be funny. "The law is only the law when it goes my way," the protesters seem to be saying. Or perhaps, "My vote should count more than yours." Or,"You have a right to your opinion as long as it doesn't disagree with mine. There really was a time when America was a kinder, gentler country. I remember it well. That's what we ought to be demonstrating for now. You protesters and rabble-rousers have taken something precious and lovely away from us. The most pernicious, four-letter word in the English language, H-A-T-E, has become the password of the masses, and the world has suffered because of it. Bring back kindness, respect and civility, both in word and deed.
    Allow Americans-and all people- the right to voice their opinions through the ballot box. And let the voice of the people be heard! Get a life, you protesters! Turn up your hearing aids and accept the voice of the people. This is not the cause of any one grooup or religion. It is the collective voice of Americans exercising their rights. Live with it!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:05 a.m.

    To California Mother @ 1:43AM...

    "This was about preserving the rights for our children not to be indoctrinated by those who wish to educate our children to their belief system"

    Are you kidding me? Isn't this exactly what your missionaries do world-wide on a daily basis? I've never had a couple of gays show up at my door....

  • YtxPat
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:06 a.m.

    Big Deal. So they draw thousands in SLC. If the vote had been in Utah, Millions would have voted to reverse the decision of the liberal judges. If the vote had been nation wide, many Millions would have done the same.

    DesNews and the Tribune are making way too much of this story. The majority of the people have spoken.

    Isn't interesting that the Black vote helped support a Mormon ideal.

  • Scott
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:09 a.m.

    I remember someone said "evil will be called good, and good...evil".

    Are we there yet?

  • CA LDS GAL
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:11 a.m.

    We actively supported Yes on 8. I have never been so proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with great people who refused to sit back and do nothing. Yes on 8 supporters have been consistently respectful, and supportive of the democratic process. Gays have lost no legal rights and they can do whatever they want behind closed doors. But I am sick and tired of all their public displays of affection, the affect this has on little children, etc...you did hear about the kindergarten class that attended their gay teacher's wedding as a school sanctioned field trip, right? Maybe we should redefined the definition of Love next. This entire group of people have their foundation in lust not love. They are not the same thing.

    Look at the numbers, people. I wish there were that many LDS people in CA but there are people from every walk of life that supported 8, not all of them Christian, LDS, or uneducated bigots as you suggest. This is America, we all get a vote. We all know your position and we care for you as individuals but we will not support your union being called marriage, because it quite simply~isn't.

  • from Bishop Weigand
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    "Catholics stand in solidarity with our Mormon brothers and sisters in support of traditional marriage the union of one man and one woman that has been the major building block of Western civilization for millennia," Weigand said in the statement.
    "The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful campaign to pass Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every faith and ethnicity. LDS were included but so were Catholics and Jews, Evangelicals and Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and Anglos."

    "Bigoted attacks on Mormons" for their part in the coalition "shameful."

    "I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live by their own words and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to exercise tolerance for those who differ from them," he said. "I call upon them to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition 8."

  • Karl Whittington
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    The LDS church deserves all the vilification it is now receiving. It has earned it. Other churches opposed Proposition 8, but they did not support it with all the malice and money like the Mormons.

  • cynyclsgirl
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:12 a.m.

    Again the people have spoken
    you CANNOT Dictate to Heavenly Father how you are going to live...

  • Nick
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:18 a.m.

    I was invited by someone on Facebook to come down and protest. These are my reasons as to why not do so.

    A) I'm not going to protest against my church.
    B) I have way better things to do on a Friday night.
    C) I agree with 1 Nephi 14:13. I kinda giggled because it's true.
    D) It wont change anything to stand and complain with signs in an immature fashion.

  • Jen
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    It's interesting that as you scream "biggots", you use intimidation to cram your agenda down the throats of those who fought your agenda peacefully. Your political correctness really means, "Shut up. You'll hear my side, but don't you say anything. I will have things the way I want, and I will do what it takes get it." Legally, this will be taught to young impressionable kids in school (form of recruiting) since schools have deemed themselves as social engineers; look at Massachusetts and their legal requirements. In their eyes, parents have lost their rights to say anything in objection about it. This has been going for a long time; 15 years ago, Project 2000 "donated" gay romance novels to Midwest school districts which we fought. With the family being attacked by drugs, schools using their forum to push diversity, and various other threats, the traditional family must be extremely worthwhile and worth fighting for. You should revisit your true agenda and be honest about it--it is the destruction of the family unit.

  • New Proposition
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    Proposition 8a:

    Make an non-married status that someone can pay a small fee to get. This non-married status will allow them to name a person as a health care beneficiary, a hospital visitor and setup inheritance stuff. This will not be marriage.

    Marriage is a religious institution. Government started charging people to get married and having them register and then began to give certain benefits to them because nuclear families are good for society.

    Some people join the voluntary minority and obviously don't care for society and what most people in that society have voted for. If they want equal treatment from the government they can have it. But they should not cheapen marriage with a new definition. Next, pedophiles and animal pervs will want marriage.

    There is a line and it has been drawn by the voice of the people.

  • dana
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:22 a.m.

    Next are they going to protest in East Los Angeles since a vary large percentage of African-Americans and Hispanics voted yes? Are they going to protest these ethnic groups? I didn't think so. No intellectual honesty. Not surprising. Nothing to see here. Just move along.

  • KEEP PROTESTING
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:24 a.m.

    I think the target should be the visiting BYU Cougar athletic teams. Just like in the '70s when the BYU teams traveled they were met with protests demonstrating against the Church's treatment of African Americans. It is time to renew the tactic. IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE. Each BYU road trip to California and elsewhere should have throngs of protestors pointing out the hypocrisy of the Mormon church. The Mormons are the last group that should have a say on defining marriage, given their history. They should be called on their preacing of hate. After reading many comments on this board and elsewhere it would be hard to deny they hate.

  • Proud To Be LDS
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:25 a.m.

    I am grateful to know we have a Prophet who follows the direction of the Lord. I am also grateful to know there are thousands of good LDS people who follow the direction of the Prophet.
    At the end of the day the people voted just because the gay community did not like the outcome does not make it any less democratic. Or any one single organizations' fault.
    The problem is we could argue this to death, but those in the right will sit back and allow those in the wrong to protest and cause trouble because ultimately the Lord's will will always be done.
    I am sorry for the people who have chosen an alternate lifestyle. Please do not try to force others to accept your choices.
    It will not matter how many choose your lifestyle, your numbers will never make it any less offensive to God or to those who worship Him.

  • washcomom
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    It is amazing to me when the "GLAD" community asks for tolerance from others, and it gives none when asked for it from them.

    tolerance
    Pronunciation: ˈt-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtl-rən(t)s
    Function: noun

    1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
    2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration
    3: the allowable deviation from a standard ; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece

  • John
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    This was a good rally. I was there. Reminded me of the civil rights movement. I'm not gay and I'm not black but I believe in equal rights for all.

    Two people of the same sex getting married isn't going to hurt anyone. There is no danger. They are living together right now maybe next door. Is a marriage license going to change anything?

    If God thinks this is a sin let him handle it. We aren't Gods.

  • Ex-patriot in China
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:29 a.m.

    I am a native Californian teaching in China and I voted for prop.8. This business isn't about marriage- that is the symptom of the disease. Homosexuals have a subconscious need to have their behavior seen as normal by others of the species. It never has been the case and never will be. There is an innate guilt feeling that is seeking validation, the lack of which causes guilt and anger at the subconscious and/or conscious level. Their behavior speaks sermons.

  • David
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:31 a.m.

    This proves one thing...America is changing for the worst. The people of California,Florida and Arizonia spoke. It wasn't the LDS church, it was millions of people who voted their belief. To target the Mormon church is ridiculous. It shows their ignorance. They have rights just like the rest, they are just not changing the constitution and right now our constitution is hanging on a threat so thank you California and all others who voted to uphold it.

  • Mona
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:31 a.m.

    On Thursday night I watched the protest at the LA Temple on the internet. Though I am pro-8 I appreciate that others feel differently and have the right to protest and make their feelings known. However, I don't understand why the LDS Church seems to be the only target, when a broad coalition of Californians worked to defeat the measure. Some of the gay spokes-persons feel the LDS is out of bounds by speaking out for the measure. Since when it is it against the law in this country for a church, a business, a community organization or an individual to express an opinion? Gays get to have their opinions, yet they seem to think others should not when it doesn't agree with theirs.

  • 801 expat
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:31 a.m.

    The absurdity of the church calling the protesters "mean" or "inappropriate" is rich. It's like if a thief broke into your house and smashed or stole all of your possessions, and when you caught him and started calling him names and fighting back, he accused you of "not respecting his rights". GIVE ME A BREAK! The mormon church has come into my state and worked tirelessly to destroy my marriage. I think we have a right to maybe protest that a smidge!

  • eyesnowopen
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:32 a.m.

    As a Church member I am ashamed. Why? Because the LDS Church had a huge role in the campaign--and the campaign relied on fear tactics and misleading/false statements. You who live in UT have no idea as to what transpired here in CA. The tactics and strategies used to fight are as important as the fight itself. I bet Focus on the Family--James Dobson, Tony Perkins are enjoying this spectacle of the protestors. We Mormons are gullible, blind fools.

  • Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:32 a.m.

    This is what I see coming in the near future:
    *Ellen Degenerate throwing a tizzy fit on her show and begging (her buddy)Obama to "fix this!"
    *General Conference will not only have the born-agains protesting outside but now, the gay coalition (whom they detest) will be numbered among them too!! It's gonna be a real show folks!

  • Yeah, that's right
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:33 a.m.

    Yeah right, the Church has asked for a spirit of understanding from both sides. The gay community has protested, defiled sacred property, name called, threatened members of the Church, sought to have their tax exempt status revoked even though they have broken no law or done anything to warrant that - they have name called, vilified, just about everything they could do.

    In the gay community, tolerance is defined as forcing the conservatives to accept their perverted lifestyle. Marriage has traditionally been reserved to a man and a woman. They produce offspring. Hopefully they stay together and are faithful. The children are raised in an enviornment of love with the benefits of a mother AND a father - both of whom have differing tendencies and characteristics which are necessary for the favorable setting for the rearing of children. Homosexuals cannot provide that enviornment, cannot reproduce and cannot - apparently - tolerate anyone who has any views different than their own.

    Tolerance is a ONE WAY STREET!

  • vegasjeff
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:34 a.m.

    oh my heck, someone please think of the children!!!!

  • Wassup
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:39 a.m.

    First of all Mr. Whipple, get you facts straight even though it make not serve your agenda. You mentioned that the LDS church members donated 77% of the funds to pass Prop 8. I just saw the KTLA video of the march at the Los Angeles temple. They said that members had donated about $15M...........clearly less than 50%. But in an effort to paint the LDS church members as the majority donators, get your facts straight.

    Stick to your civil unions. Don't force your definition of marriage down the throats of everyone else who believes your BEHAVIOR is immoral.

    Perhaps your group will now petition diety to add two more commandments. Honor thy father and thy father and Honor thy mother and thy mother. That was TIC! Why is the vast majority of religious denominations against gay marriage?

    BTW..........I look forward to your march in Compton or Watts to protest the high percentage of blacks and latinos voting in favor of the Proposition. Let me know how you are treated there vs. in SLC

  • kenny
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    There are many organizations scattered across the world that focus on the family. The Latter Day Saint Church is probably one of the most respected and influential of those groups.Should society embrace a new defination of the term family and its makeup then that weakens the long estblished defination being that of man and woman united together in marriage.Offering union to two beings other than man and woman should be and will be spoken out againts by a moral christian society.We have lost our focus on the principle of what is right and wrong.God allows us to choose but He directs the judgements upon us.There is no escape.

  • car face
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:41 a.m.

    people need to grow up

  • pjw
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:42 a.m.

    I live in California, grew up in Utah. I think that the protesters have a point. I dont agree with gay marriage, but the mormons should lose their tax status for getting so heavily involved in another states politics.

    Remember the they obtained the end of main street-one of the most valuable properties in SLC-for a song and a dance from the city.

    Utah is the only state in the union that doesnt respect the US constitution and separation between church and state.

    Every high school has a mormon building across the street and their theology on kid's class schedules. Shame on them and their half baked theology!

    Somebody said that half of California is Mormon? Huh have you ever been here?

    I supported Prop 8, but I would sure as hell rather get it passed without some religious groups violating the US constitution.

    That after all is a hell of a lot more serious than gays marrying!

  • vegas jeff
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    such hateful comments from people who claim to be from a church of god.

  • The View
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:44 a.m.

    To arc: What if the Constitution hung by a thread a no one was there to save it because they were all at home watching Ellen?

  • reason
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:45 a.m.

    Most of you commenters don't seem to have the facts. The LDS church preached from the pulpit in favor of prop. 8, they made up over 40% of the money for the pro-8 campaign, and members were given "callings" to work on taking away marriages from gays and lesbians.

    What you are witnessing is people of good will, who have compassion and care about equality standing up against the imposition of LDS beliefs on the government of CA.

    Being LGBT is genetic, and gays are not going away. You only have a choice about how you treat your fellow human beings. Sadly, the world is now seeing how cruel the LDS church can truly be. But at least some of you and your neighbors let the world know last night that not all Utahns are haters, and not all mormons lack compassion. And sometimes, people are willing to stand up for what is right and decent.

  • RW
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:48 a.m.

    With talk of "homophobes" and gay-haters, I believe, at least for myself, we're not afraid of, nor do we hate, homosexuals. We just disagree vigorously with the practice of homosexuality.

    Personally, I view it as a sin, similar to any other moral sin like adultery, viewing of pornography, fornication, etc. We love the sinner and hate the sin.

    Now, what I've said may sound unfair, biased, and morally "high-minded", but am I not free to voice my concerns in an open forum. And that, thanks to our founding fathers.

    For those who believe in a living prophet and have a firm conviction of LDS beliefs, this is a very real issue. Much depends on it, both in people's lives and for society and the country. From that perspective, how could anyone expect us to stay silent when issues of such importance ARE on the ballot?

  • Who Me?
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:48 a.m.

    Those of you who keep asking why the Mormon church is being singled out remind me of children asking their mothers why they are being blamed and not their siblings when they were in fact the ones responsible for the blame.

  • Deseret man in Milwaukee
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:49 a.m.

    Isn't protesting what was ultimately the vote of the people in California i.e. democracy in action (and yes it takes monetary support to bring about a vote - unless the politburo is in charge) rather pathetic ? These same people would probably applaud judges bypassing democracy to mandate laws while bypassing 'we the people'. I would expect Rocky Anderson to be all for such nonsense.

  • CP
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:49 a.m.

    I wish the media would stop giving exposure to these kinds of activities. But, I do have one question. Are you who were involved in this protest on Temple Square going to go and protest your so called cause at the Cathedral of the Madelain. Because the Catholic Church also helped to get Prop. 8 passed. Or are you just biased against the LDS Church??

  • Blue
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:51 a.m.

    To Plain and Simple: You can look up the term civil marriage yourself. However, you will not find it in your bible or Book of Mormon. Perhaps you should change your moniker to Plain and Simpleton?

  • Biologist 2 cents
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    It is ironic opponents of gay marriage argue homosexuality is "not natural" because it does not produce offspring.

    This argument is based on a complete MISunderstanding of biological science.

    Biological science is on the side of the gays and lesbians!

    Homosexuality is found extensively in the animal kingdom and is as "natural" as is heterosexuality.

    Social symbiosis has been extensively documented in many species, including the valuable survival role provided by homosexual and nonreproductive members of many species within the species, as well as among different species.

    Nobody can possibly argue that God DESIGNED humans to be strictly heterosexual and that homosexuality is, therefore, "unnatural" and "sinful" and will bring about the destruction of human societies.

    Neither the scientific nor the ethical cases can be made for that.

    By contrast, the ecological perspective in biology completely supports the "naturalness" of homosexuality as well as the societal benefits non-reproducing (homosexual) members and couples of species provide.

    ----------
    Unintelligent Design (2003) by Mark Perakh and

    Unintelligent Design: Why God Isn't as Smart as She Thinks She Is (2007) by Robyn Williams

    The Blind Watchmaker (1986) by Richard Dawkins

    Biological Exuberance (1999) by Bruce Bagemihl

  • Arizona Guy
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    The Arizona version of Prop 8 was Prop 102. I live on a corner, and all 4 of us had Prop 102 signs on our lawns. 2 of us are LDS and 2 are Catholic. One of our Catholic neighbors came to us to ask where he could get a sign, and of course we gladly helped him get one. My other Catholic neighbor had his sign before we had one. Protecting traditional marriage is important to many diverse religious and ethnic groups, as demonstrated by the 70% of African Americans who also voted for it in California. Somehow I don't think the primary source of inspiration for those votes came from the LDS Church. Those who are ranting now didn't have a problem when 4 judges dismissed millions of votes in the previous California action. Now they dismiss the wide diversity of voting and pick what they see as a safe target to vent their anger; the LDS Church.

  • MORMON POWER
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:53 a.m.

    you fools give the LDS church way too much credit for the passage of Prop 8. Are you really dumb enough to think that the Mormon church has that much power in the state of California? The Mormon church more influential than Hollywood and the coorporate giants like Apple and Google. As a California Mormon I'm flattered, really!

  • They that be with us
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:54 a.m.

    Mormons should not be troubled or concerned about the protesters at temple square. Those that followed the prophet in upholding traditional marriage can draw comfort from the scriptures and see the parallel.

    Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.

    And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
    And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.

    And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.


    We have done our part. It is not our fight anymore.

  • SS
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:54 a.m.

    1. Why are only the LDS being singled out? These protesters are very hypocritical.

    2. Why can't gay couples have civil unions with the rights that come with marriage but without legally requiring any church to recognize it as marriage?

    3. You gay rights folks do realize that all the protesting and legislation in the world will never eliminate the 'ick factor' (your term, not mine), right? No judge will ever force straight people to equate gay to normal.

  • Don
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:56 a.m.

    Would those who claim that the law (Prop 8) discriminates agaist a certain class of people, extend the same rights to those who desire plural marriage?

  • Apple Valley
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:57 a.m.

    I want you to know just how awesome it feels to stand up for Democracy. Last week I walked my neighborhood and delivered flyers reminding people to vote and asking for their vote on Prop 8. It felt wonderful to stand up for what I believe in and ask others to do the same. Later in the day I stood on the highway and waved signs that support Prop 8. Some honked in approval and others gave me the international one finger salute. It didn't matter. I was standing up for what I believe in.

    I was in Westwood California on Thursday afternoon. My car has a support Prop 8 bumper sticker on it. I was honked at and called names and shown the one finger salute again and again. I just smiled and waved.

    There is no hate in me. I believe marriage is between a man and woman. I am thankful to live in a Country that let's me vote and those that oppose my views vote. It is nice to know that others agree.

    Driving, voting, hunting, and marriage are all privileges that the government has regulated for a long time. They are not rights.

  • Walter
    Nov. 8, 2008 9:57 a.m.

    Actually I think the LDS Church is getting too much credit for passing proposition 8. I'm flattered that we are, but actually we were only one of many organizations that were behind the effort. Thanks for the compliment though.

  • Valley Girl
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    When good people do nothing,

    bad things happen,

    Thank goodness the people of California are showing that they are good people, by getting rid of that that is offensive to us.

  • Brain Imbalanced
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    All I know is that gay people are liars, trouble makers and stomp their little feeties if they can't their way. The gay people are adults acting like spoiled tempered babies. It's totally disgusting to see adults act as they do. I'm totally repulsed to watch them. The protest last night was completely ridiculous!

  • Hmmmm
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    Gosh, where did the LDS Church ever get the idea that homosexuality is immoral?

    Oh yeah, the Bible!

    Gen 13:13
    Gen 18:20
    Gen 19:5
    Lev 18:22
    Lev 20:13
    Duet 23:17
    Isaiah 3:9
    Ezek 16:50
    Rom 1:27
    1 Cor 6:9
    1 Tim 1:10
    2 Tim 3:3
    Jude 1:7
    2 Peter 2:10

    Check it out.....

  • Jay
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:06 a.m.

    I was born LDS and I was born gay. I have not been the target of much self-righteous hatred by Church members because I am still deep in the closet. But I have seen Church members say and so some of the most inhumane, hurtful things to other gays who have come out of the closet. Friends of mine have been beaten to within an inch of death by fellow LDS members. I understand such violence is the exception and most members would never do that, but that is not the point. The violence finds its roots directly in the anti-homosexual attitude and spirit that permeates the Church.

    But here is the beautiful thing about being homosexual. You cannot tell by looking at me. I serve in callings and move about among my ward and stake members and nobody knows. I send money to support groups and gay rights causes and nobody knows. I vote against Proposition 8 and nobody knows. I stay in touch with my friends and partner using the internet and text messaging and nobody knows. My beliefs are mine and I answer only to God for them. But you cannot discover me. My closet is safe.

  • Whatever
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:09 a.m.

    Are the gay & lesbian protesters going to head to Rome to protest in front of the Pope? Protesting the Mormon Church and the state of Utah is only a facade. It allows them to get in the news the way they want, and keeps the issue alive. I have no problem with that, but come on, were Mormons the only one's involved? Let's see some protests of African-americans or the Catholic Church, etc. It's time that the protesters show some equality or I will request that the tax exempt status of the Gay & Lesbian Associations be removed!

  • VERY SAD
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    It really sad to see rights not offered to people in the 21st century. Maybe we should turn back the clock and take away the rights of others too. WOMEN,BLACKS....

    Why not? if one group cant have full rights why not take all rights away!

    I mean seriously think about it. If you discriminate on 1 group you clearly send the message that hate on all groups is fine!

  • CA LDS
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    Boycott Utah? It was the CA Mormons who donated their effort to this cause. God answers prayers. I must say that there is a difference between Utah Mormons and CA Mormons. Our testimonies here in CA are tested on a daily basis, we don't live in the comfort of the majority like Utah, we face more discrimination and the weak don't last here.

  • research
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:20 a.m.

    From what I've heard, the justification for homosexuality by those who practice it includes several features. One is that they have a biologically fixed and uncontrolable propensity toward having sexual relations with those of their own gender.

    As a scientific research librarian, I have done a study (just out of curiosity and never published), of the medical and biological literature databases, and have found that there are (conservatively) at least 2-3 times more scientific literature that links a biological propensity of the brain and alcoholism versus a biology propensity of the brain toward homosexuality. The real number is there is probably about 5-10 times more evidence for a biological propensity for alcoholism than for homosexuality.

    Why is that our society treats one behavior that may have a biological component as a negative (alcoholism) and the other as a given, uncontrollable action, never to be questioned.

    Personally, I believe there may be a biological propensity to many of our numerous negative behaviors. Our job in life is to resist such propensities. As a practicing LDS, I believe God would not put us on this earth without the power to overcome those propensities. Thanks for listening.

  • Jed
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:23 a.m.

    I wonder why so may guys on here are taking up for these loser guys. Geeze! Men should be men and women should be women, and attracted to the opposite sex from what they are. This is how we were all made by GOD. Quit twisting things around to fit your sick perversions.

  • Gay LDS PhD
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:24 a.m.

    To Phillip Smith,

    Yes, we need thoughtful discussion based on reasoned empirical studies.

    But we also need carefully considered meta-analyses rather than biased summaries such as you provided.

    As a claimed scientist, you should know better than to declare vague, nonspecific support for a position based on "Professors... who studied THE ISSUE." That is not scientific, that is rhetoric of the most UNscientific kind. You attempt to give the illusion of scientific credibility without any science behind it. Moreover, science is not about "ideals." No scientist worth their PhD would ever "indicate" what you have claimed. None.

    More importantly, to claim "the best unit for preparing the next generation" requires an agreement on what "best" means. The "best" outcomes for society are not always the "best" outcomes for individuals, couples, or groups, and vice versa.

    Finally, you completely ignore and are unqualified to speak about the POLITICAL ETHICS of gay marriage. Even IF "uphold[ing] by example this [hetrosexual] ideal" is good, that does not mean "we should hold to and encourage all others to do so," especially through Constitutional Amendments voted by popular vote rather than Constitutional Convention and debate among ALL branches of government.

  • RangerGordon
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:27 a.m.

    The LDS Church strongly encouraged its members to participate in a concerted effort to remove the existing rights of a minority.

    Of course gays and lesbians are angry! They are fighting for their families!

    Would you do any less?

  • Oh the hypocrisy!!!
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:31 a.m.

    My favorite part of the whole article was the interview with Chandelle Bates. Does anyone else see the fundamental problem of her teaching her children "compassion" while calling the church "disgusting" . . . . or is it just me?

  • Pathetic
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:31 a.m.

    What do they honestly hope to accomplish by holding a rally? It doesn't make sense. Being gay will never be a right, get over it.

  • Concerned
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:33 a.m.

    Any LDS member who opposes Prop 8 needs to read the scriptures a little more thoroughly. Homosexuality is a sin and "the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance." (Alma 45:16)

  • terawill
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:33 a.m.

    How nice that someone can demonstrate their opinions with toddlers in tow. When I did that at a rally with my toddler, he was struck in the head with coins from a moving car going 60mph. Other people had rocks thrown at them, profanities, nudity flashed - crazy stuff, all from opponents of Prop 8. Was that the experience of the opponents who gathered at the temple? Hmmm, interesting.

  • Thank you
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:33 a.m.

    Thank You Catholic Church for your press release. Moral people should be united.

  • JanSan
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:35 a.m.

    This is really wrong! So all the movie stars and the Ca. Teacher Union and Power Co. and all the ther rich people that poured money into the No on 8 vote we should go down and picket around their places. Also, I think that it is very telling that the LDS church is being so reconized as being the fource behind the vote - wait to go other religions! You want us to join with your coalition and then you let us take all the heat! Maybe if you had stood stonger yourselves then we would not be the ones to get all this hate thrown at them. I guess when the Lord has need of a fight He know who he can count on!

  • Timothy DoRight
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    Holding picket signs is a social event, and a meaningless expression of anything in the 21st century.

    The reason they are choosing the mormon church is because they always turn the other cheek. If they did this to the catholics or the baptists they would be nursing bruises right now.

    mormons make up less than 3% of any given population in the united states. What this really should be viewed as is an attack on religious freedom by an even more meaningless hate group, i.e. the GLBTs of the country.

    What a joke.

  • Kat
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:39 a.m.

    I will never understand how gays getting married effects me or anyone elses marriage. Not everyone has the same religious beliefs and it is truly appalling to force thos beliefs on others. Gays aren't asking for anything more than what other Ameericans have...equal rights. I don't care what screwball church supported this measure. It's hateful, mean and unamerican. Jesus is shaking his head in shame at his follwers who hide behind him as they spread intollerance and hate.

  • tired of it all
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:40 a.m.

    I read a lot of these comments. It all boils down to what the people voted for. The state of Massachuesettes voted to have gay marriage. It is known fact that it has caused charities to close their doors. It is fact that being gay is being taught as "NORMAL" in public schools. The LDS church did its research and has not told even ONE lie. NO, we told the truth, The truth always hurts those who don't want to hear it.

  • Lutheran from California
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:43 a.m.

    Speaking as a Lutheran from California, the question I have is, How come the Mormons are the ones standing up for marriage and family? Where's my Church on this?

    Every Lutheran I know supported Prop 8 but my Church was silent.

    We main stream Protestants need to get with the program.

  • Anon
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:43 a.m.

    The right to worship freely and the right to speak our beliefs freely are so important that our Founding Fathers gave us the First Amendment.

    The free-speech war is lost. Hate-speech, hate-crimes, and anti-discrimination laws now punish men for their words. "Oppressing," "intimidating," or causing "emotional distress" to - in other words, criticizing - members of a legally protected group in the exercise of their rights is a criminal act under hate-crimes laws.

    Our God asks us to teach repentance and obedience to His commandments. Due to Proposition 8, we can now avoid falling afoul of hate-crimes laws in teaching Gods law of sexual morality by teaching that sex outside of marriage is sin; we no longer have need to directly criticize homosexual practices.

    It will not stay this way. The US Supreme Court, in Lawrence V. Texas, demonstrated that it is willing to look to foreign legal precedence, in opposition to the Constitution, American legal precedence, and culture, to ensure the politically correct results - against Christianity. The American experiment in religious liberty ends when the Supremes rule against us.

    Thank-you, California, for Proposition 8. Our persecutors must once again act illegally to attack us.

  • gays
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:45 a.m.

    seriously, you all need some intense psychotherapy.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:45 a.m.

    It's comical that Mormons are out front defining marriage when just a few yearS ago Mormons were defining marriage as one man and anywhere from one to a few dozen women. Why do Mormons think they are such moral highbrows that they should be out telling everyone else how they need to live. I was a fifth generqtion MORMON BUT JUST BECAME DISILLUSIONED WITH THE WAY mORMONS HAVE TO ALWAYS BE TELLING EVERYONE ELSE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING. lIVE AND LET OTHERS LIVE..

  • tired of it all
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:45 a.m.

    We don't want our society turning into another Sodom and Gamorrah. Yes, they were destroyed because they were "GAY".
    Hello, God will not bend to your whims.

  • tap9
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:48 a.m.

    The Opponents of 8 only care about their rights and could care less about mine. What about the rights I have as a parent and the rights of children who don't want this leftist agenda continually forced down our throats? I'm sick of it.

    I stood out on corners holding signs in CA and you wouldn't believe the profane, vulgar, obscene actions of these people. I've never been flipped off so many times in my life.

    There is truly hate in their words and actions and they will stop at nothing to get their way including perpetuating lies during the campaign and slandering the church. There is little to no civility or respect on the No on 8 side.

    Shame on them!

  • dirkk
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:51 a.m.

    Could it be that many of these protesters are ex-LDS, which creates a particular animosity? Many leave the church, but can't leave it alone.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:54 a.m.

    To Philip C. Smith,

    The University of Hawaii is not a real university, least of all for sociology.

  • To Tired of the LDS Church
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:54 a.m.

    To Tired of the LDS Church:

    Why does the gay community try to impose their morals on others? Obviously gays feel it's important that it's their duty to make everyone think like they do. Why else would they have such an active protest program. If you don't believe in majority rules, then don't accept the results and whine until judges rule in your favor. Otherwise, why don't you just live your life how you want and allow others to do the same. We would all live happier and longer if we lived by that motto.

  • hmmm
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:54 a.m.

    I find it interesting that so many commenters who pre-election were declaring how much time and effort they were expending to pass Prop8 are now backpedaling and soft-selling how effective they were. They're busy, busy, busy sharing the "credit" with everyone else who voted with them. What happened to the "leading the charge" attitude that existed pre-election? Why are you high-tailing it to the hinterlands now?

    Are you uncomfortable with your success and what it means for so many of your loved ones and their inability to now create legally recognized family units the way you and the rest of their relatives and friends have?

    Does the victory seem a little hollow to know you've broken many hearts that are yearning for a modicum of recognition for their committed partnerships?

    Maybe in the cold light of the day after it doesn't feel so much like loving your neighbor as yourself.

  • PhoenixAdam
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    We are not seeking special rights, civil unions, or domestic partnerships. You cannot vote discriminatory language into the constitution. We will have Equal Rights. We will Marriage. We will fight! You have hate. lies, and neo-cons.
    "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere" ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

  • Bryan in VA
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    The LDS church is nowhere near being "terrible as an army with banners" that it will be someday. With the LDS being about 1.8% of California's population the gay marriage crowd needs to look for its villian elsewhere - like in about 5,000,000 California residences.

  • Darin to Phillip Smith, Ph. D
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:57 a.m.

    With all due respect, Phillip, with a Ph. D. from Stanford you should know what a rational argument is. No amount of wishful thinking will mean that every child will be raised in a household headed by both a mother and a father. And what has this got to do with gay marriage anyway? No amount of wishful thinking will result in the end of homosexuality. You, apparently, don't deny that gays exist, so what about this fact? Banning gay marriage guarantees a mom and a dad for every kid? Give me a break. If you truly want to help children, let's focus on social programs, social support to struggling families, etc. Who wouldn't be for it? Finally, some of those children are and will be gay, and for their sakes I do hope we will be able to truly love and help them - and I'm sorry, but "Yes, we love you, dear child, but there is something wrong with you" is neither a loving nor helpful attitude. Your "it's-for-the kids" argument is just one of the several shams that duped people into Prop 8.

  • family mom
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:57 a.m.

    I vote for less government. If the HGBLT people want a union, let them invent their own ceremony. Call it g-arriage, b-arriage, t-arriage, h-arriage, or L-arriage. Let them choose the name. Everyone knows there will be people at the edge who will want more, and will keep pressing for legislation, and thus, more government control over the family.

    A democracy works best when the majority of the people want what is right and good, leaving government out of their private lives. When they don't, civilizations crumble. This is a slippery slope that may lead to family rights belonging to the government. YES for Prop 8 protects family freedom, and strengthens moral agency.

    Because of the freedoms we enjoy, anyone can live with anything and be happy or sad, their choice. But what happens when the people turn over to the government all power and control over the family? What government controls it can also eliminate.

    Marriage, where it began, has Adam and Eve married by God and commanded to "be one" and multiply. Family is flesh and blood. Life is about preserving the next generation. What will HGBLT do to ours? Lets be tolerant while preserving the family.

  • Boyd Henderson
    Nov. 8, 2008 10:57 a.m.

    Just because a couple cannot reproduce is no reason to condemn them as immoral, inferior, or otherwise inappropriate for true marriage.

    God said, It is not good for man to be alone. THAT commandment was given even before the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

    Marriage is about companionship it is not good for man to be alone prior to anything else. Couples are first and foremost couples, not parents or prospective parents!

    Same-sex marriage fulfills this first and primary commandment of God: to NOT be alone. That is all the value to society marriage needs to provide. That alone deserves protection as a fundamental civil right for ALL individuals.

    Thus sayeth God: Man was not meant to be alone. Marriage is divinely ordained to answer this eternal principle of human existence, for man to not be alone.

    Condemning a fellow child of God to being alone by outlawing their right to overcome fundamental loneliness through marriage, and assigning them a status as second-class citizens because they dont overcome loneliness in the same way YOU do is fundamentally inhumane and contrary to the will of God!

  • Henry Drummond
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:00 a.m.

    Well Dr. Smith, what else are you prepared to do to make sure children are raised only in the best homes? Who else are you going to make ineligible for marriage? Maybe only higher income groups should be allowed to marry and raise children - there is certainly ample science to support that notion. What happens if a study shows that children who come from smaller families are better off than children from the large families my Mormon friends seem to prefer? Are you going to ban them as well.

    This isn't about sociology - it is about human rights.

  • Too Bad
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:00 a.m.

    In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

  • Go America
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:01 a.m.

    We have no common ground on this issue.
    Gays believe that it's all about love and acceptance and that they should be able to marry each other. That it does not hurt anyone or infringe on anybody else's rights.

    Mormons believe that it is all about an assault on families and a continued deterioration of our society. That it is about trying to normalize abnormal behavior. That it is about legitimizing actions that are contrary to the commandments of God.

    I hear the Gays shouting ME ME ME!! NOW NOW NOW!!

    Mormons have a much bigger, less selfish vision of how this could effect the whole.

  • Portabello
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:02 a.m.

    Have pity on these handicapped/disabled people who are homosexuals. Not only sexually handicapped but also mentally.

    The people have spoken NO TO GAY MARRAIGES

  • Joseph Corcoran
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:03 a.m.

    The prevailing idea that homosexuality is a choice, rather than an inborn aspect of one's nature, appears to be the deciding factor in the intolerant attitudes of most who have posted here. If you asked yourself for a moment why, exactly, anyone would choose to be an object of general disgust, derision, and discrimination, you might come to understand the preposterousness of such a proposition. Although I am now very well-adjusted to my own sexuality, please believe that, as a young Mormon growing up, I would have given anything to be spared such a fate. You might as well ask someone to change the color of their skin as ask them to change their nature in this regard. Those who believe sexuality to be a "lifestyle choice" are simply ignorant of the facts. Scientific research increasingly supports the genetic causes of human sexuality. Besides, what difference could it possibly make to grant a tiny, harmless minority the basic civil rights which they desire to possess. We, too, pay a third of our incomes to the government in the form of taxes, and deserve equality under the law.

  • Scott in Vegas
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:04 a.m.

    I agree with the Mormons. A holy union between a man and a woman is called marriage. Sam-sex unions?...gotta be named something else. It ain't the same, who can argue?

  • God's Will
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:04 a.m.

    God has created many species of life that procreate asexually. It is human arrogance and foolishness to think that God could not have created mankind as a species that procreates asexually.

    God also created mankind as a technology developing species. "If man were meant to fly, God would have given him wings!" So we invent airplanes and space flight.

    "If God had meant for man to reproduce in any other way than with one man and one woman, he would have created us androgynous." So we invent artificial insemination, maternal and paternal surrogacy, sperm banks, cloning, and even adoption.

    The reproductive argument against same-sex marriage is mute. It goes nowhere in supporting the idea that same-sex couples should not be able to marry, and goes a LONG way in showing how foolish, retrograde, backwards, and uninformed are the supporters of Proposition 8.

  • Canadiandy
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:08 a.m.

    Wow!

    Rocky Anderson as the poster boy for greater love, better understanding, dignity and respect toward all?

    This one had me chuckling.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:09 a.m.

    if the lds church and its members wants to step into the civil rights debate, expect a response. it's that simple. and if the catholic church wants to try to weigh in on it too (especially with all the skeletons in ITS closet like looking the other way while priests molest children), expect a response. as to calling these protesters bigots-- the worlds pot & kettle come to mind....

  • bawahahah!!! :o)
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:11 a.m.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! "Arc" you just made my day with the best belly laugh I've had in a long time. Ohmygoodness, I still have tears streaming down my face.

    To Laura and Plain & Simple, could you folks please post a few more comments?

    lol

  • Last I checked
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    Prop 8 passed with 52% of the votes. Mormons make up about 2% of the population in CA. A lot of people voted to keep marriage between a man and a woman not just the Mormons.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:12 a.m.

    Yeah, exactly...talk about rights, (as a non-mormon) they have rights to their opinion as well. Mormons are of the minority too. Gays asre complaining about being discrimintated against, while they are discriminating against another minority. Hypocrites! I read somewhere that Mormons only make up 2% of CA population, yet it passed by 52%. Why aren't they ranting and raving to the other 50% too? Hmmm, talk about think before you speak?!

  • Terrific!
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    Gays- whatever you do, don't leave that 2 block radius. I'll be there as soon as I can. Question: do you know which Salt Lake County store has the cheapest eggs and water balloons?

  • Tyler
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:19 a.m.

    For those of you who say gays aren't respecting democracy, you should go back to school. You debase the judicial process as activism. That's part of democracy too. And that fact that you have to change constitutions designed to protect minorities shows that you have no respect for the established law since you have to rush to change it in order to get what you want.

    And for those who claim that prop 8 defends "traditional" marriage obviously don't realize that one man one woman was a break from thousands of years of polygamist marriages.

    and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they are subject to political protests. Deal with it.

    Maybe freedom of religion should be voted away next since fundamental rights are up for vote.

  • Mark
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:24 a.m.

    I cannot believe how many hateful homosexuals there are. If LDS is replaced with African American or any other group who supported Prop 8, the populace would see these people for the H8full people that they are. Shame on the LGBT community. If you want respect, you need to respect the rule of law an the voice of the people. Remember everybody has the right to marry. Men can marry women, and women can marry men. No one has taken away your right to marry, nor taken away your right to your freedom of expression. If the gay community needs marriage to feel good about themselves then maybe they need to take a look at their behavior. I believe that they are born gay, but I also believe that they choose to live a gay lifestyle. Life is all about the choices we make. If you don't like the consequences of your choices then make different choices.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:25 a.m.

    If you wanted to protect marriage you'd ban divorce. A religion that divorces people can't really say they stand for the sanctity of marriage.

  • SoCalGal
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:26 a.m.

    Why is it that when radical liberals propositions or votes don't go their way they protest and cry and scream or even worse threaten to burn down churches/temples and kill people? I thought the gay movement people were tolerant and non-violent. WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!

  • James
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:28 a.m.

    God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Of coarse the church is against it.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:28 a.m.

    For those of you who say you're doing it for the children: I hope you realize that when you're children are grown how shameful your behavior will look. Out of fear of anyone different from you try to change laws so that your way of life is enforced. Your theology on agency and free choice is conveniently ignored. Your children will grow up in society where people are valued for who they are, try to fight it all you like but equality, justice and liberty will surely prevail

  • Unbelieveable
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:30 a.m.

    Be thankful that you are allowed to protest because in some countries of this world you would be executed for the behavior you take part in. Thank goodness for the stars and stripes.

  • Pro Polygamist
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:30 a.m.

    I love two women. They both love me. We want a long lasting relationship that will be good for all of us. Yet you pass a law keeping us apart. Why? Do you hate us? We are not hurting society being together we should be able to marry. We were one time able do until society passed a law that says we cant. Why do you in your hate take away our rights.

    Wait sorry, this in not the cause you're fighting for.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:34 a.m.

    People on this board sound like they're from Iran - wanting religion to be the laws of the day. The US Constitution was designed to stop such things. If you want to leave in a theocracy move somewhere else. America is the land of the free, which includes freedoms for minorities too. I don't attack your freedom of religion, you shouldn't attack my freedom to the civil rights given to married couples. I could care less what you believe, or what your bible says. Our country wasn't designed to enforce the bible.

  • oregon outsider
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    the comments are very entertaining. I appreciate the quote from John Adams, "our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people." Very informative if you think about it.

    I also think it's funny that people are talking about boycotting Utah. I believe there will be more people who travel to Utah because of their support for prop 8 than will boycott it. I for one am planning a vacation their this year in my support of prop 8.

    Finally, all those that say this vote will be overturned. Well, if it is, it still doesn't make it right. However, we will still abide by the laws. We will also homeschool our children and still teach our children that the gay lifestyle is not following God's plan. That even if you are born with gay tendencies you still have a choice to follow them or not. I choose to stay faithful to my wife even though I am born with a desire to procreate with all women. And lastly, I agree with the sociologist. I think, based on studies, the gay agenda is a very selfish agenda, not doing what's best for the children.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    As a gay man, I know Jesus loves me. He loves my boyfriend too. Anyone who tries to use religion as justification for bringing hardship to others has never read any of Jesus's teachings in the new testament. I am a child of God, and He will give me justice from my oppressors.

  • Mark
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:39 a.m.

    They are singling Mormons out because they are the easy target. Mormons are a tiny minority of the people that voted for prop 8 in California yet they are being singled out. That's about like singling out the gays for getting Obama elected.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:42 a.m.

    You can say we're hateful for defending our rights, but that's easy for you to say when you take all your civil liberties for granted

  • wayne
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    the real issue here is should the california supream court had given special protection to homosexual individuals, those protections that current law grants to miorities especially blacks, women, and the handicapted for what can best be called a behavior?

    the court ruling flys in the face of justis. homosexuals were given every right granted heterosexual couple by means of civil unions. the gay community has not lost a singel right.

    but if the court decision had stood and prop 8 had not passes. I and those in the heterosexual community would have perminately lost rights. those right include: having religious and moral issues desided in a court of law with out juditial bias. the right to free association. the right to be free from harrasment due to my moral and religious beliefs. seperation of church form the state.

    a protest like the ones that happend by LDS buildings are enough to tell that the gay right crowd are willing to push there agenda on anyone. and do not care whoes right they trample on.

    again what right have my homosexual brothers and sisters lost? juditial bises of the court that should not have been granted them in the first place?

  • The bartering continues
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:44 a.m.

    ...and if you can find 10 righteous souls I will spare the city.

  • family mom
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:46 a.m.

    If we want to wear our sexual orientation on our sleeve I choose "Marriage" for mine. They don't get it.

    A person can be of any sexual orientation and not choose to be married. Heterosexuals can be just as immoral as Homosexuals, Transsexuals, Lesbians, Bisexuals.

    Marriage to me means I (a woman) have chosen to be married to a man, and commit to only him in my sexual relationship. It also means I have chosen to have children, our own flesh and blood.

    If a Homosexual, Transsexual, Lesbian, or Bisexual wants that same kind of commitment, let them have it, but DON'T WEAR MY LABEL. It must be called something different, like H-arriage, T-arriage, B-arriage, L-arriage.

    They want to wear my label, but I'm not willing to give it up. I wear it with a capital "M".

  • to Financial view
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:46 a.m.

    Are you kidding? Two adults in a same-gender union will contribute more in taxes even with the break than ANY typical Utah family that not only doesn't pay in due to tax breaks, but more often than not collects a bonus. 50% of Utah families pay 0 income tax...just about what the no offspring of same-gender unions won't pay.

  • Svoboda
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:48 a.m.

    Marriage is with a man and woman. Period.

    For those who disagee, your time would be better spent trying to reinvent something else. Here are my suggestions for you to reinvent:
    1)the sunrise being in the West and not the East
    2)make the sky green and the grass blue
    3)give fish legs
    4)bring back the dinosaurs
    5) make ducks honk and geese peep

    The list is endless

  • harrasment
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:50 a.m.

    so basically because they did not get the sanction of the government to practice immorality, they are going to harrass those who stand in their way. Make no mistake...these people want to destroy religion...and all it stands for.

  • LDS in CA
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:53 a.m.

    I don't mean to be mean or cause a fight. I am serious here. All of you anti prop 8 people do not need to worry about all of this. I think Obama will somehow fix things so that it is leagle in all states. So just be patient. Also, in the meantime, why don't you just move to a state where gay marriage is leagle?

  • D Shields
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:55 a.m.

    Thank you Biologist 2 Cents. Well said.

    Are we all forgetting that we all are part of the same humanity? Our species will rise and fall as all do. Some procreate, others don't. We are all part of the same group and the species survives as a whole. Why are some acting as if the same-gender attraction group is somehow separate and distinct and not part of us all? If "they" die out it will be along with the rest of us.

    How about putting all this energy toward eradicating hunger, effecting universal education, getting our wits about us in balancing economic interests and ecological wellness? We could accomplishing so much more good with our time and resources.

  • DB
    Nov. 8, 2008 11:59 a.m.

    I wish the LGBT community would stop whining and accept the word of the people (true democracy).

    When LDS people couldn't convince the local and federal government with a petition for help, they fled to avoid persecution... maybe not a bad idea for other groups (i.e.. LGBT)...

    Just a thought...

  • To: Boyd Hendersen 10:57
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:05 p.m.

    Boyd, you are excellent at giving half truths. I am very impressed. God did say "it is not good for man to be alone". Then what did he do to rectify the problem. He created Eve. And what a wonderful woman she was. God rectified the problem by creating a woman. You will also find many references in the Bible about marrying is between man and wife. Please state all the facts when you are quoting scripture rather than just half truths.

  • Anna
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:07 p.m.

    There were no rights taken away here. The people in CA still have the right to marry anyone they choose... of the opposite sex. ;)
    Seriously, How can these people single out the LDS church? The last time I checked the LDS population is roughly 2% in CA. It certainly takes more then 2% of the total population to get a proposition passed. The proposition passed by 4.6 percentage points. So if every LDS person in CA didn't vote the measure still would have passed. These people need to get it through their thick skulls that this is the will of the people in CA and not a church pushing its agenda on the people of CA, AZ and FL!!!

  • to DB
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:13 p.m.

    And that's why our nation was founded as a republic, because too often the will of the people fails to protect the rights of all citizens. Democracy trends with the philosophy of the moment causing upheaval around every beguiling fad. For stability and prosperity look to less is more.

  • To Svoboda
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:15 p.m.

    Your opinions always make me laugh. Surely you know your name means "freedom" in Russian and other Slavic languages. So why the compliance-officer mentality all the time?

  • 14 pages of comments!
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:16 p.m.

    I'm all for standing for something, but really. 600+ comments. Get a hobby. Go rake some leaves. Read a book or volunteer somewhere.

    And to those of you PREACHING to me about my salvation. Ummmm ...... Wait, let me check ... Hang on ..........

    Nope. Still don't care what you think about how I live my life or what I do in private. Because, oh yeah, it's none of your BUSINESS.

  • Think
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:19 p.m.

    Gays were singled out first for discrimination. Folks feel richteous by pointing out the sinners, yet we are all sinners. This is a civil matter, not religious. No one is asking the Mormon church to change their beliefs or perform gay marriages. Gays just want the civil rights (not religioius that come with marriage. Rights of inheritance, heath coverage for a spouse and the children of that spouse, there are over 1000 rights that only come with marriage. That's what gays want. They aren't interested in the religous side of it.

    Sad to see so many hard hearted people who don't respect the beliefs of other citizens. Shall we bash athiests now?

  • jan collins
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:20 p.m.

    how dare you was my first reaction - since then i have taken a new route -- i have told my friends to not buy products from the state of utah - not to visit the state of utah - and to write to you all about how they feel about the mormon church paying for and working on projects that are meant to hurt people.

    hate hurts - and if you don't understand that you folks have done this through hate and NOT love then you need a civic lesson about the rights of individuals.

    i hope that you change your attitude and denounce the actions that you have taken in california, alaska, arizona, and the list goes on ---- i don't care what you do as individuals but please keep your prejudices to yourself."

    jan collins

  • prophecy fufilled
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:23 p.m.

    I find it interesting that those who claim the mantle of "tolerence" only believes it applies when their ideas or beliefs aren't chaleenged or contradicted. We (as an LDS people) have been subject to much worse than this , and it is just going to become more pronounced as the division between what's right and what's wrong becomes more blurred. Doing those things, in our homes, which we know to be right is far more efeective than any counter protest could be ( remember to pray for those who spitefully use you? ) what would the Savior be doing right know?

  • Travis Gibby
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:25 p.m.

    The LDS church has exercised their first amendment rights. These people have a right to exercise theirs too. The LDS Church is saying that they have been singled out, but the simple fact is that 45% of the out-of-state funds came from Utah donors which is largely a response to the LDS church's stance urging members to donate to protectmarriage.

    The protest last night was a peaceful demonstration. Those who pretend that it was anything other than that betray their own homophobia. I watched a man on the news stand up and say, "I do not hate Mormons and neither should you." and the whole crowd cheered.

    I hope that one day people will stop bickering over what consenting adults do in private. Don't we have more important things to worry about? Why does the government need to define marriage at all? If you think that gay marriage is wrong, don't marry someone of the same sex. But I think that for the government to define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman sends the message that homosexuals are second class citizens. If expressing that makes me intollerant than I'll just have to be intollerant.

  • Johnson
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:29 p.m.

    All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you. How does this destroy your marriage or your family? If you don't like us don't look at us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!

  • Thanks
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:30 p.m.

    thanks to the opponents of prop 8.... the LDS church will get some new baptisms/investigators from all this attention. This is great advertising. Thanks again.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:43 p.m.

    If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they should expect.

  • Travis Gibby
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:43 p.m.

    Jan Collins,

    I understand your frustration, but you need to understand that not all of Utah is LDS, and not all Mormons agree with the stance that the LDS church has taken on this issue.

    Travis

  • Clifton
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    It doesn't matter how much letter writers try to set the record straight, debunk the lies and half truths directed at the Church, they the perpetrators wouldn't listen anyway if you were to say it to their faces. Reading the nonsense posted by these haters on this thread just demonstrates how evil, mean and hypocritical these people can be. It's not about honesty and fair play. When these people who are supposedly intelligent, who completely over look the fact that many other Churches took part in Prop 8 in California, or other Churches in CA who said no to prop 8, then their intent is to destroy the LDS Church, and their cries for equality is nothing more than a by line and charade.

    I'm wondering if those Christian groups who identified themselves as born again or Evangelicals, those who trashed Mitt Romney during his quest for President of the USA are getting any satisfaction from the trashing the LDS Church is getting from leftist radicals because of it's support for CA's Prop 8?

  • I'm still waiting
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    for the protest to come to my house here in Idaho. Please come. Looking forward to it. A Proposition 8 supporter of MY OWN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.

  • MetricWrench
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    It was the will of the people of California now shown for the second time that marriage is to be defined by the majority. All the people who don't want Obama to be president aren't running in the streets to get that decision overturned.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    Its YOUR rights next! Beware the slippery slope...

  • mdog
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:55 p.m.

    I live in California and when the papers did a survey to figure out why the proposition was rejected it found that the large majority of the black and Hispanic communities voted against. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I would bet there are more Black and Hispanics then Mormons in California. They felt it treaded on ther rights and voted accordingly.

  • to Travis Gibby
    Nov. 8, 2008 12:56 p.m.

    the most intelligent thing i've heard all day! well put!

  • Make it personal and we will too
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:09 p.m.

    Anonymous,

    "If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they should expect."

    Richard John Neuhaus said it best "In a democracy that is free and robust, an opinion is no more disqualified for being religious than for being atheistic, or psychoanalytic, or Marxist, or just plain dumb. There is no legal or constitutional question about the admission of religion to the public square; there is only a question about the free and equal participation of citizens in our public business. Religion is not a reified thing that threatens to intrude upon our common life. Religion in public is but the public opinion of those citizens who are religious. As with individual citizens, so also with the associations that citizens form to advance their opinions. Religious institutions may understand themselves to be brought into being by God, but for the purposes of this democratic polity they are free associations of citizens. As such, they are guaranteed the same access to the public square as are the citizens who comprise them."

    These protests target the Church because of its choice to exercise its constitutional right to participate in free elections.

    We won't be intimidated.

  • CA Yes On 8 is Great!
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:10 p.m.

    I want every good Latter-day Saint who has commented to know how much we appreciate the support from all of you. We have seriously been through a battle over here and I am pleased to say I did not hear of one LDS person who lost their cool while being viciously attacked by the No Supporters. The press has been so negative and biased and I really find it refreshing to know we are not alone. A lot of the people supporting No on 8 were not gays but people who are immoral in some other way and do not like Christians and other religious people in general. We all need to find way to validate the way we live and we saw a lot of that here. There are a lot of angry people and they found the church members to be an easy target. I guess they have forgotten how willing followers of Christ are to stand strong in the faith. A little check into history will tell them that this people will NEVER back down. No Unhallowed Hand will stop the work from going forward. Wickedness Never Was Happiness! Marriage=One Man~One Woman, period!

  • TO; Think @ 12:19
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:14 p.m.

    I am curious, and this is a serious question. What rights do the gay community not have that married people have? My understanding is that they do have rights of inheritance, insurance, etc. I don't know what rights a married person has that a gay person doesn't have.

  • We do not deny gays marriage
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:17 p.m.

    Johnson,

    "All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you."

    You have the same right to marry as does anyone else and aren't discriminated against because of a sexual orientation. You can marry on the same terms as any other person but if you want to redefine the terms you must do so through the democratic process.

    "How does this destroy your marriage or your family"

    It doesn't but a I don't recognize or promote a lot of things that don't harm me or my family.

    Just because I'm not harmed doesn't mean I'm forced to recognize as an individual or collectively as a voter the choices of others.

    "If you don't like us don't look at us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!"

    We aren't trying to stop you from doing anything. It is you who are trying to force us to do something and ordering us and those who represent us to give you marriage licenses. Do whatever you want because no one cares but we won't be forced to recognize it.

  • thin line
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:20 p.m.

    Tyler said"

    "and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they are subject to political protests. Deal with it."

    Yes and you are free to protest all you want.

    There is a thin line between peaceful protest and rioting. When property is destroyed or defaced and physical violence is committed that line will be crossed and then law enforcement will step in. If it really becomes out of hand, the National Guard will also step in.

  • Bill Moss
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:23 p.m.

    10% of the population is gay. It's genetic.

  • Thank you to the demonstrators
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:29 p.m.

    Mormon church members were the largest source of financial contributions to the yes on 8 campaign, by far. This is exactly why the church is being targeted for protest. This money funded a dishonest and deceptive campaign to have discrimination written into the constitution of California. This is the first time an existing right has actually been removed. To those who say the majority spoke, our constitution provides for the protection of the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Minorities need not rely on the mere good will of the majority for their rights. The church should be embarrassed and ashamed for their role in this.

    LGBT are not asking to be married in a mormon church or temple. We hear, 'we love you, it's the sin we hate'. If you love us so much, then leave alone and stop trying to impose your religious dogma on the rest of us. This is the third civil rights issue the church has been on the wrong side of in as many decades: the ERA, equality in the church for those of African descent and now this.

  • Clifton
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:32 p.m.

    Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!

  • Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:35 p.m.

    Go to the CNN website and check out the Prop 8 map of CA detailing each county. To me, I think we won by MORE than 52% !

  • Just Some Facts
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:35 p.m.

    1. Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California. There are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34 million.

    2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total Proposition 8 vote.

    3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign. Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they felt like donating.

    4. The No on 8 campaign raised more money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38 million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive non-presidential election in the country.

  • Sarah
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:38 p.m.

    The members of the LDS Church did raise a fair amount of money for this, nobody's denying that. But the no-8 side raised at least $10 million more than our side did, so why are they complaining. They had the backing of major corporations, major celebrities that some people follow like sheep, and considerably more cash than pro-8 people did. They were the ones who demanded that this issue come to a head, and it did. They lost. I understand that that's disappointing for them, but that does NOT give people the right to deface the Temple of the Lord.

    I was at that protest last night, standing up for my church leaders. We kept quite and just stood there peacefully, even though others near us were screaming back at the crowds. There were about 20 of us just there to support our church's stance on this, not there to pick a fight. We were insulted, screamed at, cursed at, we had people flashing us obscene gestures, and somebody spit on me. That is NOT love and tolerance. That is pure hatred. It was ugly. Those people last night did not want a peaceful solution, they wanted to cause damage.

  • to thin line:
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:40 p.m.

    no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and not a single protester was arrested.

    you can try to demonize people who don't think that religion should control everyone's life but all they are is your neighbors, friends, brothers and sisters who expect their government to treat their relationships the same as it treats yours.

    We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution.

    my partner and i pay more in taxes than our married counterparts, we have to pay lawyers to secure visitation and inheritance rights that you take for granted. we could care less about the religious opinions, we just want a fair government, and so should all of you.

  • Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    People like Brad Pitt donated 100K to the NO campaign. CA teachers had some of their paycheck donated to the NOs WITHOUT their permission. Various corporations donated big money too.
    And here the LDS church members are the reason for the win. GOD answers prayers! LET this be a lesson to you Hollywood!

  • Lance
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    Democracy at work baby, deal with it. If you want to live your lifestyle in private, fine. Just don't try and promote it as equivalent to a relationship between a man and a women which is the basis of the continuation of the species. Even the procreation relationships have enough problems these days, and creating even more confusion isn't a solution to anything.

  • Skippy
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:58 p.m.

    The voice of the people have spoken in California.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:59 p.m.

    People constantly misrepresent Loving v. Virginia. What was ruled in Loving v. Virginia was that laws on marriage that make distinctions based on race are in violation of the 14th Admendment.
    The ERA did not pass, so there is no absolute ban on laws that make distinction based on gender.

  • Skippy
    Nov. 8, 2008 1:59 p.m.

    It is only an estimate that 10% of the population is same-gendered attracted.

  • Tom Wall Hemet, CA
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:00 p.m.

    I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and have a word to my Brothers and Sisters in the Church who are not happy with the Saviors position against same sex marriage. You seem to think you can outwit the Lords council and run His Church your way. How did a church teaching so basic as following our prophet get away from you. While we're on the subject did you raise your hand and sustain President Monson as your prophet, seer and revelator? Please think about who knows better God or man? You must speak to our Father about this I am sure he would like to discuss this with you.

    Tom Wall
    Hemet, CA Stake

  • To the tyrants who hate freedom
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:02 p.m.

    to thin line,

    "no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and not a single protester was arrested."

    He was referring to the Los Angeles Temple were they also held a protest. I saw the images of the gate to the Temple being defaced with the left post saying "bigot" and the right "liars."

    "We could care less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the constitution."

    It doesn't violate the equal protection clause of the Constitution since you are allowed to marry on the same terms as others and aren't denied marriage because your sexual orientation. What's next? Not being able to serve in Congress unless you are a certain age is discrimination and violates the equal protection clause? How about freedom of speech? Will that mean that the government MUST print your opinions if they print a Congressman's who disagrees with you. Is that equal protection tyrant?

  • We must defend freedom
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:08 p.m.

    Clifton,

    "Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!"

    The Archbishop of San Fransisco issued a press release condemning those who were targeting the Church. He did so even though it runs the risk of drawing their attention to his Archdiocese.

    That took a lot of of courage on his part but I think Church leaders have probably spoken to others who supported Prop. 8 and asked them not to come to the defense of the Church because we don't want them to also become the target of these hateful bigoted tyrants who want to force same-sex marriage on the majority.

    Let the sound of freedom and liberty ring from the hills to the cities of this great country and let's stand tall against those who would deprive us of our constitutional right to govern and enact statutes as a majority.

    Now they are trying disguise their violent intent behind the Constitution but Madison condemned this.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:10 p.m.

    Either the 6:05 commentator is being sarcastic, or they can not comprehend the law that they posted.
    It clearly only applies to actions in favor or a CANDIDATE. The church did not endorse or oppose any candidate. The church endorsed a proposition. That is entirely different, and if you do not understand the difference you have major issues.

  • tigerlily
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:12 p.m.

    the church only asked its members to vote not how to vote

  • sureshot
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:16 p.m.

    Affording married people certain rights and priviledges, our government and legal institutions have blurred the line between church and state. I see why the religous organizations are against gays&lesbians getting married. If marriage laws were made equitable, then straight married people would no longer enjoy special rights and priviledges. They say marriage should be only between man and woman because they believe God wills it so, which is clearly a religous reason, and should not be enforced or supported by government. If "traditional marriage" supporters use cultural tradition as an argument against gay marriage, they are following in the political footsteps of those who were/are also against equal rights for blacks. Those arguments are outdated and biggoted. Married people shouldn't receive tax breaks and other special rights just because they are married, unless all people are able to get married. Religion and tradition are not acceptable excuses for legalized biggotry or discrimination. Equality and separation of church and state are ideas that make this country great. Our laws should express these values. I'm for traditional marriage, and gay marriage too. But, both should be legally acknowledged or niether should be.

  • Mumacita
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:17 p.m.

    The recent display of "protests" by pro-gay marriage adherents against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints reminds me of Kristallnacht "the night of broken glass" when the Nazis "protested" against another religious minority with intimidation, violence and destruction Jewish property.

    Why no peaceful passive resistance by the anti-Prop 8 group? Why no respectful civil disobedience by the pro-gay marriage group? Why no Christ-like attempt to persude with kindness gentleness or meekness by these gay-rights protesters.

    Martin Luther King would weep. Gandhi would be shamed. And just maybe Jesus Christ would throw the "protesters" out of His temple. Again.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:20 p.m.

    To Steve at 7:55,
    I do not think anyone has claimed that homosexual activists do not have a right to protest.
    We have pointed out that it is sad that they do so by spreading lies such as that Mormons practice polygamy.
    However, do they have a right to vandalize property? I believe the answer is no.
    I think the other point people are making is this is not how we as members of the church deal with issues.
    Those of us here in Michigan are not out protesting the defeat of Clifford Taylor even though it was the result of outright lies by his opponants.

  • cali-kel
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:25 p.m.

    The LDS church is the only one being persecuted for the passing of prop 8; That is such a confirmation that we did the right thing! satan knows where to blame, because he is pointing out to the whole country where the truth is. What a grand missionary moment! I am so grateful to know that even though few in numbers we may be, the Lord has used us in His hand as instruments, and we need to rejoice that we are worthy of persecutions for His purposes. This is prophecy happening before our eyes; Bring it on!....More be with us than be with them.

  • tigerlily
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:28 p.m.

    to follow thw money. the money didn't come from church funds. it came from members.

  • What?
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:33 p.m.

    You don't get it. Nobody is upset that people voted against it, they're upset that the church spent millions of dollars supporting any bill.

  • John Pack Lambert
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:42 p.m.

    To pjw,
    Over $8,000,000 is no song and dance. Then the church gave the city more property to secure ownership on land they already had purchased.
    On the comment about half of California being Mormon the person was saying that mockingly about the claim that the Church is solely responsible for this measure passing. The commentator knew that they were saying something ludicrous, but it was to show how ludicrous it is to claim this was some sort of Mormon plot.

  • People can...
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:43 p.m.

    vote for laws, candidates or any other position for whatever reason they want to. It doesn't matter if they have religious reasons for their voting habits or not. There is no law whatsover on any piece of legislation in the United States that says that a person's reasons for voting how they wish have to be secular reasons. Every single person in this country goes into the voting booth with their individual background, circumstances, morals, values and beliefs with them. Elections and ballot measures are not interested in WHY somebody voted for something, just that they DID.

  • Question to people like Laura
    Nov. 8, 2008 2:44 p.m.

    "People like Brad Pitt donated 100K to the NO campaign."

    What are "people like Brad Pitt"?

  • Sokel
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:01 p.m.

    Let them move to Conneticut or Massachusetts...or
    France. The people have spoken...We the people have
    a right to protect what we do or do not find acceptable behavior.

  • TO JAN COLLINS
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    I hope you read the comments posted by "just some facts" posted at 1:35. Maybe YOU should get your facts straight before making such stupid remarks. There were MANY, MANY of us who joined with the Mormons working in Southern California to correct the travisty of justice brought on by four judges earlier this year. This issue was as much about the audacity of these judges - who, on thier own, stole the right of the voter to have his vote count. Just in case you have forgotten this is a government FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE. This issue was already decided on BY THE PEOPLE but was overturned by just these four judges. Prop 8 was just as much a voting rights issue as it was a was a moral issue. California voters WERE NOT all Mormons! They DID NOT even make up the majority of voters! Exactly what part of this is it you are not able to comprehend? WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE...postum?

  • dj
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:20 p.m.

    People who have that kind of money to donate.

  • Guapo
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:21 p.m.

    If the people in CA voted for YES on 8 they (ie gays, lesbians, and what every else you call the wackos) need to respect it. Not all California is all San Frqncisco and West Hollywood. If they do not like the way the vote came out GET OUT OF CA. Don't bnlame the churches because of your lifestyle change you have made. If you do not like it here MOVE OUT. No one is stopping you.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:21 p.m.

    Has anyone else noticed that the Mormon Church leadership has not instructed its members to donate $20 million for a political campaign to end polygamy in Utah?

  • To Mumacita
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:24 p.m.

    As a Jew, I cannot let your post go by without comment.

    Kristallnacht was a pogrom in Nazi Germany on November 910, 1938. On a single night, 92 Jews were murdered, and 25,00030,000 were arrested and deported to concentration camps. Tomorrow is the 70th anniversary of the horrific event.

    Please do not compare the peaceful anti-8 demonstrations to this.

  • Steve
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:25 p.m.

    I'm going to gather my straight friends and I together and go protest in front of a gay club. This is stupid.

  • Rebutting so-called "God's Will"
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:26 p.m.

    "God's Will" posted:
    "... It is human arrogance and foolishness to think that God could not have created mankind as a species that procreates asexually."

    No, it's your total ignorance of historical and biological reality that could even create such a pretense. You're obviously not aware of the definition of "asexual":

    1. Having no evident sex or sex organs; sexless.
    2. Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction that occurs without the union of male and female gametes, as in binary fission or budding.

    Mankind produces sexually naturally through the union of a man and a woman. Assert otherwise, and you might as well be chasing rainbows and hunting unicorns.

    "God also created mankind as a technology developing species. "If man were meant to fly, God would have given him wings!" So we invent airplanes and space flight."

    Just because man can, doesn't mean man should. It's called "self-restraint," a concept radical gays don't seem to handle very well. The fruits of progress can be used for good or ill, but homosexual unions masquerading as "marriages" is not progress; they are only a pathetic approximation of the natural role of men and women and aren't conducive to healthy families.

  • Curt
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:30 p.m.

    I have a dear friend who attended the protest against the church for its stand against gay marriage. This lead to a discussion that exposed the hypocrisy of so many of those who marched at the temple. I asked her why she would hold the church accountable for it's position against gay marraige, but she voted for Barack Obama who repeated said and I qoute "marriage should be left between a man and a woman" How could they vote for a candidate whose open position is closer to the Mormon church's than there own. The Knight of Columbus was a huge contributor to fight this iniative, but not a single protest at the cathedral of the Madeliene. 52% of Californian's oppose gay marraige in one of the most liberal states outside of France.

  • To Anonymous from AZLDSGal
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:34 p.m.

    Polygamy in Utah is already illegal. Polygamy in this entire country is illegal. They can't prosecute them because they are not getting married by legal law. They marry the first wife by law and marry the rest by what "they believe" to be a spiritual marriage. You might want to check out a book once a while and read up on these things before you speak.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:40 p.m.

    Hate state? Utah? Hmmm, sounds like the Utah I have known for many years. Too bad we continue to be like this.

  • Rover
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:43 p.m.

    RE: arc
    the constitution will hang by a thread and orrin hatch will save it.

    Or Mitt Romney.

  • Response to more lies from liars
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:44 p.m.

    What,

    "You don't get it. Nobody is upset that people voted against it, they're upset that the church spent millions of dollars supporting any bill."

    It's obvious you don't get it since:

    1) this was not an bill. Please learn the difference between an initiative and a bill.

    2) the LDS Church only made an in-kind donation of $2,078.97 which means that the Church reported money it spent in support of Proposition 8.

    3) Individual Mormons donated and so did many others including Bruce Bastian, a non-Mormon, from Utah who donated 1 million to oppose Prop. 8. I suspect that the average donation of Mormons is $5,000.

    We as individuals have a right to donate to any cause we choose and to be free from harassment when we choose to become involved in free elections. The Church did nothing different than the organizations who opposed Proposition 8 and many of them donated far more time, money and resources to oppose Prop. 8 so give it a rest.

  • Barbara Eades
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:44 p.m.

    As I read "a man and a woman" in Prop 8, I see nothing in that pertaining EXCLUSIVELY to same sex couples; however, it seems that for whatever reason or reasons, that seems to be what it evolved to. How did it come to this? Thank you Attorney General Jerry Brown, as it would appear the way you worded the information on the ballots regarding Prop 8 brought this on as exclusively pertaining to same sex couples. Woe is me! Seems to me like some people need to go back to school and learn to read or more importantly learn meanings of words. Obviously there are other situations that are not "a man and a woman"!!!

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    Do you think you are being original when you say the Adam and Steve bit? It is dull and stupid and if you think abut it God DID create Adam and Steve!!! And gays normally do come from heterosexual intercourse so can that mean that you breeders create gays and lesbians? Think about it

  • To the lying tyrant
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    Anonymous,

    "Has anyone else noticed that the Mormon Church leadership has not instructed its members to donate $20 million for a political campaign to end polygamy in Utah?"

    Polygamy isn't legal in Utah and Utah's Attorney General, a Mormon, has enforced the law. The lies will not work and you will prove to the world that you bigoted tyrants will do and say anything to force your opinion on the majority.

  • Anon
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    Imagine if, in deference to the self-esteem of lazy students and mathematical idiots, PI was declared by judges to be exactly 3.

    This is precisely analogical to what the CA Supreme Court did in declaring marriage to be between two individuals regardless of sex.

    The sole point of difference is that the inevitable damage from the stupidity of defining PI to be exactly 3 would occur almost immediately (any future engineering relying on PI would cease to function).

  • Dorias
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:49 p.m.

    I think it is time for Rocky Anderson to come out of the closet.

  • so happy i left
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:52 p.m.

    I am so happy I left the mormon church a few months back. I left because I believed the history was full of lies, they preach hate and hypocrisy.

    After reading these post and hear people talk about this issue, I thank god I no longer have any association with these people.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    So you think that my being gay is a sin? I really don't care what you think and you don't care either that I think being LDS is a sin...so we are even. Get a life

  • glenncali
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:53 p.m.

    Thank you LDS for supporting Prop. 8...they won't have our children to pervert...Roman Catholic

  • Tru
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:54 p.m.

    The LDS church isn't the only church that spent millions of $s. Anyone protesting in the Vatican??? You have equated Sexual Preference with natural rights. Race & gender are things over which people have no control. Sexual activity is. To bunch them together is a mistake. Sexual activity outside of marriage is a moral issue, which is why the church is involved. Laws are in place to protect gays to visit loved ones in the hospital, inherit when the loved one passes away, and even to adopt. What more do gays need? need does not equal want...What they want is a recruiting vehicle like the schools and other state mandates to impose the gay choice upon a heterosexual society. If everyone were to become gay the human race would eliminate itself in one generation.

  • GAY AND PROUD
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:55 p.m.

    I have to laugh at you heterosexuals...you spend so much time worrying about what we gays are doing in our bedrooms...I couldn't care less what you do in yours..if I did I would probably throw up

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 3:57 p.m.

    LDS Moral? Oh please...give me a break

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:00 p.m.

    Why are we targeting the LDS??? Because you stick your noses in other peoples' business where you are not welcome. Have you not noticed that most of the time your so called missionaries are NOT welcome.

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:04 p.m.

    Being gay is not a choice...don't go mouthing off stuff you have no clue about

  • Anonymous
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:05 p.m.

    Hate=Mormon

  • Floridian
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:07 p.m.

    As a Mormon I understand the position of the Church. But honestly I do not know the position of all the gays and lesbians. What are you looking for? Is the word marriage what your are trying to add to your relationship? Please use this forum to educate. Honestly if you do it with respect and civility many Mormons will listen to what you really want and feel.

  • Unimpressed
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:09 p.m.

    Lets see, a male named Whipple is whining that he can't marry another man in Utah because a bunch of people in California, for the second time, against this arrangement?

    Whipple clearly is far too much time on his hands or cannot find any real injustice to correct.

  • Frank
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:12 p.m.

    2% of California is Mormon. There are more gays than Mormons in California, which makes the fact that 77% of the money for Yes On Prop 8 came from Mormon sources mostly outside the state rather awkward for California's Mormons.

  • Hmmm
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    Hmmm, maybe all you Mormons are right. People keep saying that no rights have been taken away from me, I still have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. Well gay folks, maybe it's time to listen. If every gay man married a gay women, think of the tax revenue we'd deny the straight community, and boy could we mess with their heads! I've got great health care coverage, are there any lesbians out there who'd like to share my piece of the pie? Bring your kids too - the more the merrier! Or, how about this - we could all make a little extra money by marrying illegal aliens - you know, for a fee of course. And, there's an endless number who are just dying to get here! Wow, we could really pad our pocket books, couldn't we. Hey gay brothers and sisters, maybe they're actually onto something!

  • Beeswax
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:13 p.m.

    Yes, the "people have spoken." However, it will be resolved when the Supreme Court has spoken. Equality trumps bigotry every time.

  • Freedom will prevail over tyrant
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:14 p.m.

    Anonymous,

    "Why are we targeting the LDS??? Because you stick your noses in other peoples' business where you are not welcome. Have you not noticed that most of the time your so called missionaries are NOT welcome."

    The law that we live under is our business as much as it is the business of those who opposed Prop. 8. You don't have a right to vote while we don't. Many non-Mormons donated to oppose Prop. 8 including Bruce Bastian who donated $1,000,000 even though he lives in Utah. Members of the Church donated on an average of $5,000 which is less then the donations of many supporters of same-sex marriage.

    We have never stuck our noses in anyone's business. We don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home but it is our business what the law is and our opinions have as much right in the public square as does yours and to suggest that we don't or to target the Church for exercising the same right as other associations of individuals is tyrannical. Freedom will prevail and the enemies of liberty who want to force their will on the majority will not prevail.

  • David S
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:16 p.m.

    Man has the potential to live beyond his own narrow interests--through families: grandparent, parent, and children families.

    No person, through the lives of their forefathers, the span of their own life, and the life extending through their posterity will ever experience the deepest fulfillment outside the traditional family.

    Gays/lesbians, however great their individual souls may be, will never enjoy this enduring, extended kind of fulfillment.

    Let those of us who trust family as THE enduring intuition of growth and happiness never be ashamed to protect it.

  • Gays NOT fair
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:17 p.m.

    Discerning between right and wrong is not "hate," unless you're given to self-serving epithets and propagandistic name-calling.

    Try to be fair about this, at least - if voting for or supporting Proposition 8 is "hate" toward gays, then voting against it is "hate" toward heterosexuals.

    The sniffy indignation behind "why do you care what I do in my bedroom?" is really laughable since gays has made it their agenda to CODIFY public approval for their private acts.

  • Plain & Simple
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:19 p.m.

    To Jason: Your tone was hysterical; source please of how tithing funds were used. You have none, but it sure is easy to make allegations isn't it? Let me try one. Jason hates Mormons. That was easy to say as an allegation but I have no source to back it up (except maybe your post).

    Your comments on churches tax exempt statud convince of one thing. You are not a tax attorney.

    "Our rights have been taken away from us." The amendment in California says, "Only marriage between a mand and a woman is valid or recoginized in California." Exactly what rights have you lost?

    "The purpose of a supreme court is to protect the minority from the the tyranny of the majority." Wrong, the purpose of the courts are to see that justice is done, not legislate from the bench. Legislation is left for another branch of our government to do.



  • It's none of your damn business
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:20 p.m.

    GAY AND PROUD,

    "I have to laugh at you heterosexuals...you spend so much time worrying about what we gays are doing in our bedrooms..."

    We don't care what you do in your bedroom. I have never given it a second thought but this issue is not about what you do in your bedroom.

    Instead this is about the right of the majority to define legal institutions so long as the majority allows everyone to access it regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation. That is the case here.

    Gays aren't denied the right to marry a person of the opposite sex because they are gay while straight people are allowed to marry a person of the opposite sex because they are straight. Nor are gays denied the right to marry a straight person because they are gay. It would be a violation of due process to only allow gays to marry gays. A gay man can marry a gay woman or a straight woman and a straight man can marry a straight woman or a gay woman.

    "I couldn't care less what you do in yours..."

    It's none of your business what I do in my bedroom.


  • No means no!
    Nov. 8, 2008 4:24 p.m.

    Same sex marriage is not a constitutional right. Activist judges are to stick to the constitution and that document is not supposed to evolve. The saddest part of all this controversy is that this historic institution is being "hammered" by those who want to change it and won't take "no" for an answer. Activist judges chose to make this a divisive one when then told the people that their vote didn't matter and in essence that they were too stupid to understand the issue and the constitution.
    By the way, "no" only has value for some groups if they're the ones saying it!
    Prop 8 was right and it protects children from the agenda of those who want everything they live to be given public sanction. The people of California have spoken twice and all faiths and