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Utah Utes football: Whittingham, rivals say feuds are over

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  • Fueds over?
    July 23, 2008 12:30 a.m.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.

  • back and forth???
    July 23, 2008 1:02 a.m.

    Since 2000, Utah is 7-1 against Wyoming. Thats "back and forth"? Kyle's being polite. The 1990s were back and forth but not lately.

  • grumolman
    July 23, 2008 5:26 a.m.

    "Kyle's being polite"? After kicking an onside kick after being up 50 points he'll never be mistaken for "polite" he's not real bright, setting his team up for an ambush in Laramie to an inferior team. No matter what he say's the Wyoming fans, players and coaches won't forget it.

  • No more, no less
    July 23, 2008 5:32 a.m.

    Any lingering animosity Utah players may have for UNLV will likely be the same Wyoming players feel toward the Utes.

  • Ryan
    July 23, 2008 7:04 a.m.

    Kyle always seems to have the car red-lining. That either gets you an extra burst of torque... or it blows the engine out. That leads to another inevitable rollercoaster season for the Utes.

  • Re: grumolman
    July 23, 2008 7:25 a.m.

    Get over it...geez. Have you forgotten Mr. Glen flipped off Whittingham? Last time I checked there is nothing in the rule book that says you can't score as much as you want.....BYU knows this, they always ran up the score with Lavelle. Wyoming deserved everything they got that afternoon. Just go to one of their games as an opposing fan. See what happens to you in Laramie.

  • Silly Kyle
    July 23, 2008 7:50 a.m.

    Silly Kyle,

    Don't you know anything? The fans are the ones that control feuds. We are the ones who say when things are over. Both sides took things way to far, and now you will just have to pay the price. No silly apology between coaches will work for us. The fans will decide when either side has been forgiven... and as of now, it is not over!

  • Burying Hatchet
    July 23, 2008 7:58 a.m.

    Yeah, I'm sure Wyoming fans and players will be more than willing to bury the hatchet...

    in the backs of the Utes when they visit Laramie.

    Kyle is new to being a head coach and he may live to regret his brainless decision to kick an onside kick with the game already decided. It would be a shame to see a promising season marred by one, stupid, unsportsmanlike act, of the coach no less, from the previous season.

  • JD
    July 23, 2008 8:46 a.m.

    I agree that Kyle isn't very bright, not impressed with his coaching style either. As far as the fans are concerned, the hatchet is NOT buried. The Wyoming game will be fun to watch this year. Go POKES!

  • Spin
    July 23, 2008 8:52 a.m.

    Coach Whitt and the other coaches are just putting on their 'sunday best' attitude for the press. Like the article says "(it) will likely be used as a little bit of motivation when the two teams meet Sept. 6 at Rice-Eccles Stadium."

    It's their responsibility as coaches to put the positive spin on it for the press. But we all know those games will have added motivation for the side that got burned.

    I'd still pick the Utes to come out the victor in both rematches. Clearly in the UNLV game and I think the week with the Cowboys will be a grudge match (literally for both sides)but the Utes look solid to win it in Laramie.

  • UNLV Fan
    July 23, 2008 8:56 a.m.

    We all know that the Rebels are still laughing at the Yewt defense. 27-0.

  • Its All Talk
    July 23, 2008 9:13 a.m.

    The coaches are just putting their best foot forward for the press. Come game time, you can bet those fueds will be revived! I think it is great for the MWC to have this type of excitment within the league. Whenever fueds exist, the fans are more passionate, TV viewership increases (which potentially increases ad revenues for the broadcast) and the players are more motivated for the games. I can't wait to watch the Cowboys, Utes,Rebels, Aggies, and Cougars square off against each other after all the bad blood last year between these 5 teams. It will be GREAT football!

  • Anonymous
    July 23, 2008 9:13 a.m.

    whittingham is a first class loser. we need him fired if we ever want to be successful again.

  • Re: Silly Posts
    July 23, 2008 9:13 a.m.

    Gotta love all these Ute lovers who think that one OOC road win a season (I hope you're not counting Utah State among your OOC road win successes) and beating an unmotivated, disappointed, middle-of-the-conference team in a bowl game makes for a successful season.

    Urban is long gone, and Kyle still hasn't won a conference championship nor has he finished in the top 25.

    Good luck in the Big House. Let's see if the U can get a real victory this time, instead of a moral victory, like they did last time they visited Michigan.

  • Hero of Canton
    July 23, 2008 9:27 a.m.

    First off, the Utes go undefeated this year.

    Second off, when you have the football the point is to score. If the other team is so inept as to not be able to stop you that is their problem, not yours. There is no such nonsense as running up the score. If the other team is going to be a bunch of crying babies about it, here is a novel idea: STOP THEM FROM SCORING.

    Thirdly, how about the team down south stop running their mouth about how they are superior and start backing up all their talk of being a good team. We have busted the BCS and we are going to do it again this year, what have you done? Go sip some caffeine free Mnt Dew like big boys and let me know.

  • James Halls
    July 23, 2008 9:48 a.m.

    Hey Hero of Canton,

    16-0 in conference the last two years is why we can run our mouthes about how good our football team has been. The future looks bright and until the Utes knock us off our high pedestal we will continue to show you on the field how we are the superior team in the state and conference. 2004 is history! What has your team done lately? We wanted Coach Whit but I believe that we actually got the better man for the job in Coach M. Thank you Utah for saving us from ourselves and stealing Coach Whit away!!! Go Cougs!!!

  • Bryan
    July 23, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    RE: Hero of Canton...I don't think anyone is worried about the final score of the Wyo game, it was the onsides kick that riled most people up. Outside of Ute fans, (and some of them were not happy with it) there are very few people who would agree with coach Whittinghams decision. You can score as much as you want. IF your the better team, go ahead, just don't rub salt into the wound when it doesn't have to be that way.

  • Pot calls porcelain throne white
    July 23, 2008 9:57 a.m.

    Hey, Re: grumolman -- thanks for the best laugh of the morning. Nothing funnier than a Ute fan calling out a Wyoming fan for classlessness. The only perceivable difference between attending a game in Laramie or Salt Lake City that I can see is that in Laramie they cover the other team's leading receiver on the last play of the game with 9 men in pass coverage.

    And last time I checked, there is nothing in the rulebook about flipping off an opposing coach either. Some things are just obvious -- they don't need to be in the rulebook.

  • Fued?
    July 23, 2008 9:57 a.m.

    Ute fan here and the only fued I have is with the sock and sandal wearing BYU fans who try to trash talk on Utah based articles. If you're going to bring it here, at least bring some good smack..not weak sauce stuff like "Good luck in the Big House. Let's see if the U can get a real victory this time, instead of a moral victory, like they did last time they visited Michigan."

    Fact of the matter is we ARE playing in the Big House while the weak and scared teams are playing the Junior Varsity Nothern Iowa team on opening day. Bronco has got to grow a pair and start playing real teams. Maybe the reason he doesn't is because he is 1-5 against BCS teams in the regular season in his tenure (Wins - 2007 Arizona, Losses - 2007 UCLA, Arizona 2006, Boston College 2006, Boston College 2005, and Notre Dame 2005).

    I guess the Qwest For Perfection is a little easier when you're scheduling the Northern Iowa's of the world though.....

  • Matt
    July 23, 2008 10:01 a.m.

    Re: Hero of Canton

    I'm a Ute fan too, Hero, but you've got to relax and be a bit more logical in your arguments. Propping up a BCS victory four years ago, and directing it as a form of trash talk towards the Coug fans is nonsensical at this point. Our Utes have lost to the Cougs the last two seasons and have finished in the middle of the conference pack while BYU has finished first, comfortably. No BCS bowl makes up for the Utes' performance the past two seasons in conference. Isn't bringing up past BCS hysteria playing the history card we all accuse BYU fans of playing all of the time?

    I am hoping along with my fellow Ute fans this year will be different. And I expect to not be disappointed. But there is a line between being myopic or a realist as a fan and you just crossed it.

  • OOC Road Games
    July 23, 2008 10:03 a.m.

    Utah 2005-2007 (with Kyle)
    L @North Carolina (5-6) 17-31
    L @UCLA (7-6) 10-31
    W @Utah State (1-11) 48-0
    L @Oregon State (9-4) 7-24
    W @Louisville (6-6) 44-35

    BYU 2005-2007 (with Bronco)
    L @Notre Dame (9-3) 23-49
    L @Arizona (6-6) 13-16
    L @Boston College (10-3) 23-30
    L @UCLA (6-7) 17-27
    L @Tulsa (10-4) 47-55

    So Mr. I'm-so-proud-of-Utah's-OOC-road-wins is hanging his hat on ONE road win over a 6-6 team vs. BYU's TWO undefeated MWC championships and TWO top 25 finishes?

    Utah's average OOC losses on the road were by 17 points.

    Even including a 26 loss at BCS bowl team Notre Dame, BYU's average OOC losses on the road were by 11 points. Excluding the Notre Dame loss, BYU's average OOC loss was by 7 points.

  • Zero of Canton
    July 23, 2008 10:05 a.m.

    Hey, Hero, you had me at "first off."

    The Utes going undefeated is a pipe dream -- and I think we all know what's in that pipe.

    Second off -- how many points a team scores is not the issue. It's how you score them. If you have your second string in, and you are running the ball and they still cannot stop you, so be it. When you are up 43-0 -- and you have scored already on several trick plays -- and you kick an onside kick, well, you are classless. Basically you are saying, we are not men enough to simply run the ball down your throat that last quarter and a half -- we still have to use trick plays. Again, it's how you do it. Whittinham was clearly showing Glenn up at the expense of the Wyoming players. That was classless -- but then, what do you expect from a coach who said "piss on ya" to his own fickle fanbase?

    Thirdly -- what have you done since 2004? Congrats on two good years with a carpetbagging coach who left you high and dry. Score some points against UNLV, then pop off.

  • Re: James Hall
    July 23, 2008 10:11 a.m.

    The only ones who have put BYU on a high pedestal is their fans. They are the best team in the Mountain Weak Conference now but you guys like to think that you've beaten every team by 40 for the last half century. If you guys are THAT good, then why did you lose to TULSA AND UCLA? C'mon. Those games should not have even been close. Even the struggling UTE team kept with your ALMIGHTY and beloved Cougars. The Cougars are much better than the Utes, but they are not THAT good.

  • One
    July 23, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    One win is one win cougar lover.

  • Feuds over,
    July 23, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    but only a classless coach would order an onside kick when his team is dominating. Smile, pat the other guy on the back, take him to dinner, but that doesn't change a coach's character.

  • Rich
    July 23, 2008 10:18 a.m.

    Utah was not running up the score on Wyoming, they were practicing an onside kick in a real world situation. Coach Witt already covered this.
    Utah played well all game and earned the right to use the rest of the game for practice.

    All the great coaches do this. Please stop trying to make coach witt into a villain. The truth is that he is a top notch guy, who cares more about people then he does about the game.
    I have seen this first hand with his interaction between a player and me.
    He punished the player and apologized to me. He did not take sides even though this event could have hurt the team. He was objective and helped everyone involved.

    Go Utes, There is a lot of talent on this team!!

  • UCLA
    July 23, 2008 10:26 a.m.

    MICHIGAN

  • Ten
    July 23, 2008 10:32 a.m.

    One OOC win and TEN in-conference losses

    vs THREE in-conference losses Ute lover.

  • Utah Press Corps
    July 23, 2008 10:36 a.m.

    Rich, did you say that Whittingham punished a player? Why have we never heard of this? This would be front-page news!

  • McKay
    July 23, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    Rich: I personally am not a Kyle hater... although a BYU fan, I actually really like Kyle and (without knowing him personally) think he is probably a standup guy. That being said, you are high in the night if you think that "all the great coaches" order an onsides kick while up 43 pts. I am as much of a football junky as you will ever find and "all the great coaches" don't order an onsides kick while up 43. They have their 2's and 3's in, they give them the reps (in a real world situation) they build depth on their team in situations like being up 43 - 0... I don't think Kyle is a classless coach, but he made a classless decision which I'd be willing to bet he wishes he hadn't made.

  • Ryan
    July 23, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    NIU > Weber State, Ute fans, and it's not even close. In fact, they'd probably toast WSU by 3 touchdowns.

    Come to think of it, they'd probably toast YOU by 3 touchdowns. Grow a brain and look at your own schedule before you decide to pop off about BYU's.

  • Re: Fued?
    July 23, 2008 10:41 a.m.

    Yo, Fued. Thanks for identifying yourself as a Ute fan right out of the chute, but the effort was redundant. Your spelling of "Feud" already clued the rest of us in.

  • Kevin Olson
    July 23, 2008 10:46 a.m.

    Rich,

    I have only seen an on-side kick by a team up 43-0 ONCE. I guess all "great" coaches do this.

    Score it: Coach Whit: 1, Everyone else: 0

  • Poor
    July 23, 2008 10:47 a.m.

    Yeah, Rich, "all the great coaches do this."

    Name me one other great coach who has ordered an onside kick with his team leading by 43 points. In fact, I'll even settle for the name of any coach who has done this other than Whittingham.

    Apparently the Utes did need the practice though, I'm with you on that. Because somebody forgot to teach the "special" teamers that you need to let the ball go 10 yards before pouncing on it like Urban Meyer on a fat contract. How embarrassing to call an onside kick to rub it in, and then you botch the play.

  • Dick
    July 23, 2008 10:53 a.m.

    I'm a diehard Ute fan. I've been one for over 30 years. I attend every home game and watch every road game.

    Having said that, there is no way I can justify kicking an onside kick when leading 43-0. You just don't do that. Kyle messed up big time on that - there is no other way to say it.

    Even with that incident, I'm still a Ute fan but I do have to say I have concerns about Kyle's ability to make decisions not based on emotion. If he got to emotional and decided to do the onside kick, how can I have confidence that his emotions won't get the best of him in a critical game situation?

    I hope I'm wrong on this.

  • @Poor
    July 23, 2008 10:58 a.m.

    I hope you realize that onside kicks have less than a 50% chance of succeeding. Thus, the fact that it didn't work isn't an indication that something is wrong with Utah's special teams.

    I cannot and will not defend Kyle's decision to call the play. As a Ute, I was very disappointed he did that.

    But, it is not an embarassment to have an onside kick be unsuccessful. That is the norm, not the exception.

  • Re: Re: Fued?
    July 23, 2008 11:01 a.m.

    As already mentioned, if the Cewgars (spelling?) are going to smack talk here, please bring it harder than talking about almost winning at Michigan or spelling errors in a post.....pointless. Before posting here, make sure your brown braided belt is cinched up on your Levi shorts and that your 1984 Championship t-shirt is tucked in!

    Weber vs. Nortern Iowa.....Utah is throwing a bone to an in-state school and to their former coach. BYU is.....Qwesting for Perfection (isn't it Quest too...why is BYU calling it Qwest...where is that BYU spelling bee champion that's posting on this article) and looking for a W.

    In Bronco's tenure as Coach and Witt's tenure as head coach, the records against BCS teams is as follows:

    BYU: 1-5
    Utah: 3-3

    Who cares about how many points either team won by....Utah clearly belongs with the big boys. Utah isn't scared of BCS teams but its clear why Bronco is......1-5 isn't something to brag about and he's afraid the Qwest will be derailed if they schedule, say, a Michigan!

    Go NIU (aka This Year's Appalachian State)

  • He means UNI...
    July 23, 2008 11:04 a.m.

    Not NIU, of course. Everything else is spot on!

  • Mr. Obvious
    July 23, 2008 11:11 a.m.

    Dick, you, at least, sound like a sensible Ute fan. Congrats.

    I don't think you are wrong on this, however.

  • Weber State?
    July 23, 2008 11:14 a.m.

    I love these Ute fans bashing BYU for playing Northern Iowa. They forget 2 important facts:
    1- We are only playing them because lame Nevada backed out on us at the last minute, and left us scrambling to find an opponent
    2- Utah is playing WEBER STATE. I know its an in state rivalry but they are also D2 just like Northern Iowa

    So get off your high horse Ute fans. You do the same things as every other college in the D1.

  • Sherlock
    July 23, 2008 11:20 a.m.

    Re: @Poor,

    Correct me if I am wrong -- but onside kicks that the kicking team attempts to recover before the ball has gone 10 yards fail 100 percent of the time.

    The embarrassment is that not only did the Utes try the onside kick to make a statement, but that the statement was: We are not coached well enough to know basic rules. (Of course, in fairness to the Ute special teamers, they were the first players in college football history to be put in the position of trying to recover an onside kick in the third quarter ahead by 43 points.)

  • Kevin Olson
    July 23, 2008 11:26 a.m.

    Not converting the on-side kick may not be an embarassment, but doing it sure was. Not converting just added to the "crass" act.

    Utah can talk BCS all they want. Fact of the matter is, they have a harder time than BYU scheduling BCS teams, even in the house the Olympics built.

  • michael
    July 23, 2008 11:31 a.m.

    no coach is above it. Kyle's on side kick was a bad idea, yes. So was Bronco's choice to leave John Beck and Max Hall in for almost every snap in several games that were in hand the last 2 years. Lavell was not running dive plays up the middle to run out the clock, he was throwing the ball down field.
    Get over it, all these guys have egos and pride that gets the best of them including BYU's "Golden Calf", Bronco.

  • Laugh a Minute
    July 23, 2008 11:32 a.m.

    Re: Re: Fued, are you trying out material for your next standup routine? What's next: "Why do they call if Ovaltine? Shouldn't it be Roundtine?"

    "Utah clearly belongs with the big boys?" Lay off the Red Bull there, Champ! Stop running away from Frank Summers like he's the Incredible Hulk and then get back to me.

    Bronco v. Whitt records speak for themselves.

    Head to head: Bronco 2, Whitt 1

    League championships: Bronco 2, Whitt 1

    Conference winning streak: Bronco 16, Whitt 0

    Telling their fanbase "Piss on ya": Whitt 1, Bronco 0

    Onside kicks with a 43-point lead: Whitt 1, Bronco 0

    Getting shut out by the worst team in the league: Whitt 1, Bronco 0

    I guess the numbers are about right for each guy -- they each are ahead in three categories.

    You clearly do belong with the big boys!

  • Bob
    July 23, 2008 11:33 a.m.

    I'm getting excited. I have really grown to love MWC football and am really looking forward to being able to view these games in CA on Direct TV. This conference and the WAC also, should simply be BCS conferences. Don't tell me some of the big boy leagues don't have their weak sisters too. If a league has three teams capable of crackig the top twenty-five in a given year, they belong. The MWC has Coaches, Whit, Mendenhall and Patterson doing amazing work with their programs (among others) and have rabid fan bases. I pull against the Coogs every week, but don't try to tell me that they aren't a proud, quality program with an excellent Head Coach. It never ceases to amaze me how many Ute and Cougar fans chant OVER-RATED, or disparage the records and acheivements of the other programs, then leap with joy when they've beaten that same opponent. If your opponent is overrated, isn't the logical conclusion that your team isn't all that good either? That they just happened to score more points than a team that wasn't really that good?

  • Oooops
    July 23, 2008 11:48 a.m.

    I'm sure Laugh a Minute did this for comedy sakes, but Whitt has not won any league championships as a head coach. What he did with Utah the latter half of the 2004 season while Meyer was lookiing all over the country for a new job, technically doesn't count.

  • Spelling vs Math Feud
    July 23, 2008 11:51 a.m.

    While you're giving spelling lessons, try retaking that Math 99R class at the local CC. A grammar, spelling and punctuation refresher would also be helpful.

    During the Mendenhall/Whittingham era, the correct record against BCS teams is:

    BYU - 3-6
    Utah - 4-4

    Contrast that with their records against MWC teams (Whittingham lost as many conference games last season as Bronco has lost in the last 3 years):

    BYU - 21-3
    Utah - 14-10

    Overall:

    BYU - 28-10; 2 MWC championships; 2 top-25 finishes
    Utah - 24-14

    If you keep trying, you might be able to twist the numbers in some way to prove that Kyle has been more successful as a head coach than Bronco.



  • Ute homer
    July 23, 2008 11:57 a.m.

    But Bob, BYU is OVERRATED! There program has never really done anything to brag about and there coach is a bland robot.

    I will always desparage the record of BYU -- cause they are overrated!

    I guarantee you this -- I will be the first one on the field this November to help tear down the goalposts if we are lucky enough to beat that overrated Team Down South again!

  • Re: Laugh
    July 23, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    Correction:

    League championships: Bronco 2, Kyle 0


    Kyle is following in the proud tradition of most of the Utah football coaches over the last half century (except Urban) of NOT winning conference championships. So far:

    Kyle:
    2007: 3rd
    2006: 3rd
    2005: 4th (tie)

    Bronco:
    2007: 1st
    2006: 1st
    2005: 2nd (tie)

    Kyle's best finish so far is not as good as Bronco's worst finish.

  • What is UNLV's....
    July 23, 2008 12:35 p.m.

    record against the kittens in provo this decade? Just curious.

  • Re: Ryan
    July 23, 2008 12:45 p.m.

    Ute and cougar fans aside, do you realize how ridiculous it is to be arguing about who is playing the better I-AA team? It is ridiculous that either team is playing either of them. Both of them suck, and as a season ticket holder I wish they had someone else as I'm sure you do.

  • Doesn't matter
    July 23, 2008 12:47 p.m.

    Doesn't matter Boise will roll anybody in the Mtn West.

  • Re: Laugh | 12:10
    July 23, 2008 12:51 p.m.

    Good for the TDS to finish in 2nd place back in 2005, especially with their pedestrian 6-6 record that year. The Utes were only 7-5.

    Bronco is 2-1 against Whittingham. I don't see how 1 extra win exemplifies "dominance", especially if you consider the scores of those 3 games amounts to a difference of only 3-pts.

    Don't forget...BYU has a better record against 1-AA opponents during the Whitt/Mendenhall era too:

    BYU: 2-0
    Utah: 1-0

    Okay, so both teams average out to be batting a 1000 against lower tier schools, but BYU DOES have 1 extra win. DOMINATING!

  • Re: UNLV's record
    July 23, 2008 12:56 p.m.

    Crowton is history. A new sheriff is in town. UNLV's record against Bronco is the only thing that's relevant.

    Just curious, when was the last time Kyle was shutout by UNLV?

  • Re: Doesn't matter
    July 23, 2008 1:11 p.m.

    Boise State is desperately trying to abandon the WAC for the MWC.

    Be careful what you wish for; BYU football is back and the Cougars would love to feast on a little bronco meat, after a little tenderizing.

    BSU would be lucky to get through an MWC schedule with less than 3 losses.

  • Re: Laugh
    July 23, 2008 1:19 p.m.

    Bronco 2-1 over Whit head to head is a trend.

    Bronco 21-3 to Kyle's 14-10 in league is dominance.

    What part of that is so hard to understand?

    Your record is the only real gauge to how good a team/program/coach is. That's why they play the games.

    But Utah is probably the best 14-10 league team over a three-year period in the nation!

  • Re: Re: Laugh
    July 23, 2008 1:25 p.m.

    In 2005, Bronco was rebuilding the BYU football program after Crowton had spent 4 years dismantling it.

    Kyle was taking over a program that had just finished its greatest season in Utah football history.

    And Bronco still finished ahead of Kyle in the conference race.

    A 1-point loss to conference champion TCU (50-51), an overtime loss to Utah (34-41), and a 7-point loss to California (28-35), a team that had been ranked as high as 9th Coaches/10th AP in early October, all very winable games, were the difference between a 6-6 record and a 9-3 record.

  • homers_84606
    July 23, 2008 1:30 p.m.

    Hero of Canton - what have we done in the last quarter century? 218-96-2. 14 Conference Championships. 1 National Championship. 15-10 against Utah. What have the Utes done? 170-123-1.
    4 conference champions. 10-15 against BYU. Cmon man - admit it - BYU has the better program.

  • Still need that....
    July 23, 2008 1:45 p.m.

    record vs. UNLV in provo, you know, at home? I know history is relevant to the kittens. Just curious.

  • I love BYU fans...
    July 23, 2008 1:48 p.m.

    who seem to be more incensed by "on-sides-gate" than Wyoming fans.

  • Re need that
    July 23, 2008 2:21 p.m.

    Look it up yourself, but you and I both know that Crowton's anomaly is irrelevant and meaningless in evaluating BYU's overall success over the last half century and the current state of the program.

    The more relevant question, for a Utah fan, is "When will Utah stop laying eggs in conference games?". Maybe you should consider changing your mascot. He could be giving the wrong subliminal message to your team.

  • Baked Potato
    July 23, 2008 2:25 p.m.

    Doesn't matter: The glory days are over in Boise. However, Boise St. would be a great addition to the Mountain West - where they could hang out in the cellar with UNLV and San Diego St.

  • Is that a....
    July 23, 2008 2:36 p.m.

    spin-job or what? We're great except when crowton was here. We're great versus unlv, except for their two recent trips up to provo. Please, silly, tell us the answer to the question -- unlv's record this decade in provo? You can talk about what you know, but I know nothing of the sort, silly goose!! crowton shows-up in the record books, same as any other coach. Now in response to your comments regarding the "anomaly" in vegas last year (their first win over us since the '70's), let's talk about provo's record versus unlv this decade, not on the road, but at home. I know the kittens' favorite topic is history. This should not be difficult for you (just leave-out the spin-job this time). Record?

  • Crowton
    July 23, 2008 3:09 p.m.

    He may show up in the record books, but he was fired for things just like his record against UNLV.

    FYI, the last time they came to Provo, the score was 52-7, not in their favor. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with what the current coaches are doing rather than what the previous coaches did. So far, Bronco is 3-0 versus UNLV, while K-Whit is 2-1, with that one being mighty glaring.

  • Anomaly in Vegas
    July 23, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    anomaly: something different, abnormal, peculiar

    The "anomaly" in Vegas, would be a true anomaly if Utah had a history of regularly winning conference championships. Instead, it's just another example of Utah's propensity for losing conference games they could have, should have won.

    Only winning 5 conference championships in the last 45 years (WAC/MWC combined) does not happen because of anomalous conference losses.

  • re: Anomoly in Vegas
    July 23, 2008 4:33 p.m.

    I see I have another entry for the zoobie-to-English dictionary.

    Anomoly against a single team: determined by one's conference record rather than one's record against said team.

    What the @#$% does conference record have to do with how two specific teams play against each other while their overall records is ignored?

  • Cowboy Joe
    July 23, 2008 4:46 p.m.

    Cowboys never forget! Utah is on our list. Thank you for throwing gas on the fire Coach KWitt.

  • wYo8
    July 23, 2008 5:33 p.m.

    This year do i drive to laramie and watch the fans reaction to twitt and the Yewts or do i go and watch the winning streak continue. Go cougars and anybody playing the Yewts.

  • observer
    July 23, 2008 6:14 p.m.

    I'm glad the feuds don't appear to be over. If all this infantile stuff went away, what fun would football be??

  • Cougars Crack Me Up
    July 23, 2008 6:22 p.m.

    I am so proud of the little kitties from P-Town. You're so hung up on the past two years its ridiculous. 2004 is history but 2006 isn't??? Please. Grow up and realize that you've a had a good run in conference but other than that you're nothing special. A terrible bowl record, a terrible record against BCS teams. So stop talking so loud to Ute fans because there were not too long ago. They owned you for 4 years. You have 2. Good work. And if it came down to it I am taking Kyle any day vs. Bronco in MMA.

  • @ weber state
    July 23, 2008 6:36 p.m.

    you just showed your college football IQ...

    Weber State and NIU are not D2, the are in the FCS or football championship subdivision (formerly D1AA) Division 2 is another thing altogether.

    Dumb.

  • Wyo and UNLV
    July 23, 2008 6:39 p.m.

    Fueds aside, the games will be played between the lines and Utah will easily defeat UNLV and Wyoming. Unlv will not win a conference game this year. Wyoming MIGHT get into a bowl...Utah is predicted to finish at the top of the conference, is red hot winning 9 of last 11 and may have their best team EVER in SLC. no contest.

  • Still.....
    July 23, 2008 8:25 p.m.

    don't have the unlv-provo record in provo this decade. Anyone? Just curious. Leave-out the spin jobs. Thanks. BTW, the topic is unlv, not overall conference wins. Stay on topic, kittens!! Still just curious.

  • byu -vegas-utah
    July 23, 2008 9:26 p.m.

    seriously. you dont judge a 2008 team based off of one game, if i were to do taht i would pick the tulsa game for byu, just to show that they had and still have a TERRIBLE defense, even with brian kehl and jan jorgensen in the lineup. and as far as im concerned, im pretty sure the utes domitated just about every game (whith the byu game being equally dominant by both teams in certain aspects) after the loss to unlv, as byu dominated every game when they lost to tulsa........both teams have fans who are just idiots, sometimes myself included getting ralled up in the excitement of college football.......sure i want my utes to win the conference and go undefeated, but if they dont there's nothing i can do about it, and every fan of every team should feel the same way, because its just a game when it all comes down to it, and we need to look at the whole picture and realize that we need to just chill out on making fun of others teams based on one small thing.

    GO UTES!!!!

  • Re: homers_84606
    July 23, 2008 10:16 p.m.

    Really Homers_84606, you were part of the 218-96-2 record compilation by the Cougars? What position did you play?

    Tip: Enter adulthood by first separating yourself from a silly childhood fantasy. No more "we did this..." or "we did that.." You are a fan. Get it? you ROOT for the team, not PLAY on the team.

  • wasn't that bad
    July 23, 2008 10:34 p.m.

    Joe Glenn wasn't flipping off Kyle last year. He was just telling him his team missed the on-side recovery by 1 yard! Sheesh!

  • Lavell
    July 24, 2008 1:27 a.m.

    One thing the sainted Lavell Edwards did that affects the conversation between BYU and Utah fans all these years later is make BYU ALL about conference championships. For three decades it was their only goal.

    So it's not surprising that the blue Kool-Aid drinkers talk only about conference championships when that's how they've always measured success.

    But now with the BCS there's a semblance (but only a semblance) of a tournament. And what we all love about tournaments is that when it's all said and done you pretty much know who's the best.

    In the NCAA Basketball tournament there's a name for teams that win their conference tournament, but never make it to, oh say, the Sweeet 16.

    Those teams are called losers.

    And do I even need to say it? Utah has won in tournament settings, both in football and in basketball.

    And BYU? Well the newspaper writers did crown them national champs in 1984. And they do have all those shiny conference trophies. Oh, and Danny Ainge has a couple of championship rings (only as a Celtic).

    Cougars, I love you people. But less talk and more winning in tournament settings.

  • Dork Capitol
    July 24, 2008 6:24 a.m.

    Hey!

    leave it to be settled on the field OK!!!!
    Instead of Stupid fans! on both sides!!!

  • MainePoke
    July 24, 2008 7:03 a.m.

    Coaches may act nice, but fans and players won't forget the classless act of an onside kick up 43 points. Kick the tar out of us without intentionally rubbing our noses in it.
    Glenn did the right thing to give the salute.
    Can't wait to welcome our newest, hated team to WAR at 7220.

  • N.C. Hillbilly
    July 24, 2008 7:30 a.m.

    The Utes had better make a decent showing in the "BIG HOUSE" vs. Michigan, or else they'll have to BOW DOWN to the THREE TIME NATIONAL CHAMPION Appalachian State Mountaineers! GO APPS!

  • Lowered expectations
    July 24, 2008 8:31 a.m.

    Coach Whittingham: We want a Mountain West Conference championship. It's eluded us for the last three years. That's what we have our sights set on.

    Utah Fan: it's not surprising that [BYU fans] talk only about conference championships when that's how they've always measured success.

    Its not surprising that SOME Utah fans have lowered their expectations from winning conference championships to finding other less meaningful accomplishments for judging success. Utah, after all, has won so few championships in the last half century.

    Most BYU fans view regularly winning conference championships as a STEPPING STONE to greater accomplishments. It used to be the ONLY way of getting into a bowl game, which is why Utah disappeared from the bowl scene for 28 years following their 1964 Liberty Bowl appearance. It also leads to Top-25 finishes and other national recognition, which is why BYU has finished in the Top-25 FIFTEEN times compared to Utahs 3 or 4.

    A great record in bowl games is something Utah fans can be proud of, however, you cant transform an above average season into a great season simply by beating another above average team in a bowl game.

  • National Championships
    July 24, 2008 8:46 a.m.

    "the newspaper writers did crown them national champs in 1984"

    Newspaper writers, coaches, sportscasters, and every other prominent group that "awards" national championships in Div 1A football.

    Nothing really has changed since 1984 except for a feeble attempt by the BCS to match the "two best teams" in a so-called national championship game.

    Everyone who has payed any attention to college football since the creation of the Alliance/BCS Bowl knows what a dismal failure that process has been.

    Until we have a true national championship playoff, the "mythical" national champion will continue to be "awarded" in a beauty contest reserved for the "beautiful" conferences.

    The BcS is nothing but money-making operation for the "haves" of college football. The ONLY reason they decided to throw the non-BcS teams a bone was because they were FORCED to do so to prevent a class-action lawsuit from breaking up their money-grabbing monopoly.

  • re: BCS Tournament???
    July 24, 2008 9:55 a.m.

    "Utah has won in tournament settings, both in football and in basketball."

    To call the BcS a "tournament" is like calling the Westminster Kennel Club dog show and real sporting event.

    Both are nothing but beauty contests.

  • Represent
    July 24, 2008 10:17 a.m.

    In their 115 years of college football, Utah has won their conference championship and then played in the bowl game designated for their conference champion...

    ONCE!!!

    2003 - Liberty Bowl - Southern Miss - 17-0

    It would have been twice if they hadn't played in the Fiesta Bowl in 2004.

  • Mcbride
    July 24, 2008 12:23 p.m.

    Thanks for the great laughs, "Lavell." Those are some of the most unintelligent comments on here.

    To (dim) wit:

    "And what we all love about tournaments is that when they're all said and done you pretty much know who's the best."

    Oh, really?

    So, in 2004 who was better ... USC or Utah? Who was better, Utah or Auburn? Who was better, USC or Auburn? And what about the year that USC was No. 1 in both polls, but not invited to play in the BCS Championship?

    Yeah, we all knew who was the best team after those "tournaments."

    That you ascribe Utah having success in "tournament" football for one game is the single most ridiculous comment in this entire thread. Stop bobbing for fruit in the barrel of red Kool-Aid, Lavell

    I'm sure you don't see the irony in lauding Utah's Sweet Sixteen basketball appearances while denigrating BYU's conference football championships. I'd wager that BYU has more Top 16 final football rankings than Utah has Sweet 16 appearances.

    And the only thing I remember about Utah and the NCCA Tournament is that the Yewts always find some way to lose to North Carolina. Beat the Tarheels, then pop off.

  • Fassel
    July 24, 2008 12:24 p.m.

    Sorry, Lavell, but you are missing the obvious. What has affected the conversation between BYU fans and Utah fans over the past 30 years can be traced to one single thing:

    SCOREBOARD!

  • Dave
    July 24, 2008 12:31 p.m.

    This is coach-speak. If I was a coach or player this year for Wyoming, I too would say "water under the bridge" or "onside kick? What onside kick?" But come game time it will matter, and it will make a difference.

    Wyoming 24, Utah 20

  • Urban
    July 24, 2008 12:31 p.m.

    Thanks for checking in, Lavell. The one thing you can say about Utah is that they do have a great bowl record. A big mitigating factor in that, however, is for most of those years, they did not win the conference and instead ended up in the lowest tier of bowl game possible to where they were playing opponents who could barely qualify for bowls. They should have won those matchups.

    The two exceptions were 2003 and 2004 where Utah was conference champion and represented the league as conference champions. Although, one could argue that Pittsburgh was a vastly inferior opponent as well (through no fault of the Utes).

  • Stobart
    July 24, 2008 12:34 p.m.

    You crack me up, Lavell.

    What would Utah's bowl record be if Ute fans counted the results of the BYU-Utah games during the Edwards era? During that entire span the BYU-Utah game WAS Utah's bowl game.

  • Kevin Olson
    July 24, 2008 2:02 p.m.

    It is KENTUCKY that Utah can't beat in basketball (another team in blue they have problems with). How many MWC Championships in basketball does Utah have recently? How many MWC Tournament Championships do they have.

    Please remind me.

  • Just the Bowl Stats
    July 24, 2008 2:10 p.m.

    Total Bowls
    BYU - 26
    Utah - 13

    Bowl Record
    BYU - 9-16-1
    Utah - 10-3

    Average Overall Record
    BYU - 10-3
    Utah - 8-3

    Average Opponent Record
    BYU - 9-3
    Utah - 8-4

    No. of Opponents with 3 or fewer losses
    BYU - 14
    Utah - 2

    No. of Opponents with 2 or fewer losses
    BYU - 5
    Utah - 0

    No. of Undefeated Opponents
    BYU - 2
    Utah - 0

    No. of Top 25 Rankings after bowl
    *BYU - 14 AP, 14 Coaches
    Utah - 3 AP, 4 Coaches

    *BYU was ranked 16 AP, 20 Coaches in 1979 and didn't play in a bowl


    Played in/Qualified for bowl reserved for conference champion
    BYU - 17
    Utah - 2

    Longest streak of consecutive bowls
    BYU - 18
    Utah - 5

  • Correction
    July 24, 2008 2:20 p.m.

    BYU was ranked 16 AP, 20 Coaches in 1977 and didn't play in a bowl

  • Feud over???
    July 24, 2008 2:46 p.m.

    Coach nit-Whitt knows that he made a bone-headed decision to call for an onside kick with the Utes up 43-0.

    Now he's wishfully hoping to smooth things over so he can sneak into Laramie without being ambushed.

    Maybe he's learned a hard lesson about not kicking an opponent when he's down, but, if not, he may yet learn that it's not wise to throw fuel on the fire when you have to play in the enemy's camp the following season.

  • Anonymous
    July 24, 2008 3:10 p.m.

    I thought this was an article about Wyoming...

  • Green Jello
    July 24, 2008 3:22 p.m.

    Given all the stupid comments from Cougar fans about an article that didn't have a thing to do with BY WHO maybe you Cougar fans time would be better spent getting the Jello ready for the MIA social

  • Re: Jello
    July 24, 2008 3:58 p.m.

    When it becomes clear that you've lost the argument and you have no genuine rebuttal, always resort to your best third-grade response to end the argument.

    Good luck to the Utes at the Big House and in Laramie. Looking forward to meeting your undefeated team in November.

  • Kevin Olson
    July 24, 2008 4:07 p.m.

    Just like calling every Ute fan the town drunk, jokes about green jell-o are not funny anymore. Get some new material (Green Jell-O).

    This is an open forum. No one owns the right to comment here. Ute fans do not have sole authority on stupid comments

  • Wyoming by 40
    July 25, 2008 12:03 a.m.

    Yes, they are over, that's because the u is going to lose to both of those teams this year, just like Bball last year. Thanks Wittless.

  • BYU identity issues
    July 25, 2008 1:40 a.m.

    byu, Yahoo called and they want their "Y" back.

    USU called and they want their navy blue back.

    Return to glory?!?! Find some identy first, stick with it, then talk about glory.

    Your poor fans don't know what color or logo to purchase because your identity is a moving target!

    The only consistancy you have is green jello, ignorant yet arrogant fans (very strange combination that exists only at byu) and envy for big brother in SLC.

    Try having just ONE player stick in the NBA before you declare glory. Win a few bowl games (UCLA booted last year's game to you). Win an NCAA tournament game... just one every decade would be an improvement.

    U of U envy? Certainly! Count the posts from negative byu fans on this U of U article and draw your own conclusion.

  • Utah little brother issues
    July 25, 2008 7:41 a.m.

    You rant about off-topic posts and then give us a long diatribe about ABCs and colors and basketball.

    As a Utah graduate and an avid BYU fan I can state unequivocally that:

    BYU has had the dominant football program for the last half century.

    Utah has had the dominant basketball program for the last half century.

    There are exceptions, such as BYU's NIT run in 1966 and their NCAA run in 1981, and Utah's BCS-busting season in 2004. BYU has gotten more competitive in basketball recently. Utah has gotten more competitive in football and has had some bowl success since 1992. But, if you look at the overall success of each program for the last 50 years:

    BYU football has been MUCH better than Utah football.

    Utah basketball has been MUCH better than BYU basketball.

  • RE: James Halls
    July 25, 2008 10:04 a.m.

    "16-0 in conference... we will continue to show you on the field how we are the superior team in the state."

    TDS beat Utes on a last play and got lucky on a 4th down at home and you call that a superior team? Props to the wins and MWC championships but I bet you would trade those for a BCS game.

    TDS is not much better then the Utes. Superior team was the Utes in 2004, the TDS the last 2 years is good but Utes aren't shaking in their cleats.

  • RE: Laugh a Minute
    July 25, 2008 10:15 a.m.

    "Bronco v. Whitt records speak for themselves...You clearly do belong with the big boys!"

    Yes, the Utes are the best team in the State over last 10 years. We made history to play with the "big boys" in 2004... TDS made history by winning against a bad Ute team on the last play of the game in 2005.

    Utes have played bad the last 2 years and the fact is the TDS has barly beat them. Now when Utes in 2003 and 2004 were playing better how did the TDS fair in those games?

  • Re Mcbirde
    July 25, 2008 10:57 a.m.

    The Utes always lose to Kentucky, not North Carolina.

  • Cherry Picking
    July 25, 2008 12:36 p.m.

    "Yes, the Utes are the best team in the State over last 10 years."

    Last 10 years = 2003 + 2004???

    A very good Utah team (10-2) barely beating a very bad BYU team (5-6), 3-0, is ignored, but a couple of very good BYU teams (11-2, 11-2) barely beating a couple of good Utah teams (9-4, 8-5), 17-10, 33-31, is a big deal???

    Actual Record Last 10 years
    Head-to-Head
    BYU 5
    Utah 5

    MWC Championships
    BYU 4 (3 undefeated titles)
    Utah 3 (1 undefeated title)

    MWC Record
    BYU 53-22 (71%)
    Utah 47-27 (64%)

    Overall Record
    BYU 78-47 (62%) (3 double-digit win seasons)
    Utah 78-41 (66%) (2 double-digit win seasons)

    Best Season
    BYU 12-2
    Utah 12-0

    Worst Season
    BYU 5-7
    Utah 4-7

    Bowls
    BYU 6 (2-4)
    Utah 7 (7-0)

    Average Record of Bowl Opponents
    BYU 10-3 (2 undefeated teams, 1 two-loss team)
    Utah 8-5 (2 opponents with 4 losses, all other opponents had 5 or more losses)

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 3
    Utah 2


  • Red Kool-Aid
    July 25, 2008 12:41 p.m.

    Re: Re: Laugh a Minute ...

    The Utes were clearly the superior team in 2004. No argument there. By the way, where's your Superior coach now?

    If Kyle had been your coach the past 10 years, I'd let you include Utah's performance in the last decade. However, Kyle v. Bronco is the only thing that is relevant now. If you want to delve into the past, good luck. Let's look at the last 20-30 years then.

    Utes go undefeated and finish 4th in rankings. BYU goes undefeated and wins national championship. Who cares? None of it matters now.

    Utah was the better team in 2003 -- and yet they still only beat BYU by 3 points when the Cougars were playing a 3rd string QB who couldn't complete a pass longer than 5 yards. You want to build a case of superiority on that?

    Your luck argument is simply an excuse for unintelligent play and coaching. Kyle/Gary's drop-9-men-into-pass-defense ploy worked on the last play in 2005. They were stupid to try it again in 2006. Letting the receiver get behind you on 4th and 18 is just dumb. Saint Urban even said there is no such thing as luck.

  • Utah Identity Issues
    July 25, 2008 1:00 p.m.

    Hey, Utah -- U-Haul called and they want their U back. (U-Haul, the official sponsor of Utah football. Urban Meyer called them to move his carbetbags. Chuck Stobart, Jim Fassel, Ron McBride were all forced to give them a call.)

    The Ute Indian tribe called, and they want their mascot and logo back.

    Nice uni recall, too. Because everyone knows how intimidating it is to display the word "MUSS" on your basketball uniforms. Whoa! Now that that's on there, I'm sure those punk Wyo Cowboys won't throw some meaningless facial slam in your grills at the end of the games this year, all so your coach can go ballistic and make a fool out of himself.

    What is it with Utah coaches and poor public sportsmanship anyways? Get a grip, guys! It's only sports.

  • Re: Cherry Picking
    July 25, 2008 1:37 p.m.

    Utah's 7-game win streak in bowls is great, but the competition was pretty weak. BYU had a poor bowl showing against much better competition.

    Utah had one very good year and one exceptional year versus 3 very good years for BYU.

    Overall, the teams played fairly evenly the last decade, with maybe a slight edge to BYU with more ranked teams and more conference titles.

  • pony
    July 25, 2008 5:10 p.m.

    Get real Kyle, everyone hates you and your team. Revenge in Laramie!!!!!!!!!!

  • Wow,
    July 25, 2008 5:14 p.m.

    you kitty-kats are out-of-control. Spin, spin, spin. LOL!!

  • huh?
    July 25, 2008 7:44 p.m.

    Ok so I'm really curious...what IS byu's record vs unlv in provo?

  • Huh?
    July 25, 2008 11:30 p.m.

    Ok so I'm really curious...what IS utah's record vs MWC teams the last 2 years?
    SCOREBOARD!!!!!!!

  • Duh
    July 26, 2008 10:52 a.m.

    BYU is 12-3 overall vs. UNLV.

    BYU is 4-3 vs. UNLV in Provo.

    BYU is 7-0 vs. UNLV in Las Vegas.

    BYU is 1-0 vs. UNLV at a neutral site (Japan).

    Incidentally, BYU has scored in every one of those games while UNLV has been shut out twice.

    Additionally, Cougar tacklers have never been ridiculed by the Rebel coaches after the game for "running away from" a UNLV running back.

    Hope that clears things up.

  • What is Utah's....
    July 26, 2008 8:07 p.m.

    overall record against UNLV, home and away? Please clear that one up, especially the home record. LOL!! BTW, just to help, I don't recall Utah ever losing to UNLV at home, let alone three times. At least not in the past two decades or so. I believe two of the kittens' losses to them took place this decade, alone. Thanks in advance for the continued humor. Sincerely, your idol.

  • Curious
    July 28, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    When was the last time Utah or BYU was shutout by a conference opponent that won only one conference game all season?

  • spin spin spin
    July 28, 2008 11:47 a.m.

    Still can't answer the simple question? We're not asking about BYU's home record vs UNLV. Yes, you're right, the Utes dropped an egg vs a horrible UNLV team, and yes the Utes are going to take crap from that for a long long time. But the question that we're all asking is what exactly is BYU's home record vs UNLV for the past decade? Please no cougar spin

  • oops
    July 28, 2008 12:17 p.m.

    ok, I realize I totally contradicted myself. I learned my lesson, need to be smart and read. Man, I feel like a cougar...

  • This just in ...
    July 28, 2008 3:12 p.m.

    I'll type this slow for all you idiot Ute fans out there ...

    A win at home or on the road still counts the same in a team's record.

    A loss at home or on the road still counts the same on a team's record.

    The present counts more than the past.

    You can go to UNLV's unexpected record in Provo this decade. We can go to BYU's undefeated record vs. UNLV since Bronco took over.

    You can obsess about UNLV's record in Provo this decade, we'll talk about Kyle's embarrassing shutout last year.

    BYU has never lost to UNLV on the road. Tell us, "Spin, Spin, Spin" how does that compare to Utah's road record at UNLV (this century, this decade or since last season).

    Scoreboard. It's a beautiful thing.

    I hope that clears things up for you.

  • crazy stuff
    July 28, 2008 5:07 p.m.

    I'm guessing cougars have a.d.d. because i just keep getting the run around from a simple question. BYU's home record vs UNLV this decade please? By the way, I really really hope BYU has a great year. Bronco is a great coach. He's done wonderful things with the Cougars program and as far as I'm concerned (I'm a die hard Ute fan by the way) he deserves every bit of credit he gets. But I hope that 1 loss comes up at RES.


    GO UTES!!!!