Charges are expected against FLDS officials
i suppose the RED escalade and the cash and prizes were 'photoshoped' too.......
Sadly anyone over the "Legal Age" and then some, having sex (Married Or Not)
with someone under age IS WRONG in the 20th and 21st centuries in the United
States of America! These men should be prosecuted! 19 with a 14 and "Married" is
questionable. I feel for the Children and Women in the Texas colony (It isn't a
COMPOUND), they have had their rights infringed upon, whether or not the so
called men of the colony were ABUSING THEM, it was handled COMPLETELY OUT OF
LINE! GO GET THE GUILTY MEN, Leave the women and children alone!!!
It is extremely important that the US and states take action to stop and end
polygamous marriages. If nothing else, it takes a huge toll on the children of
these marriages and it is also not healthy for society to have these separate
groups or communes. However, it simply does not guarantee the
well-being of the children to have CPS take the children from the mothers, so
the children should remain with the mothers, while the fathers should be legally
and physically refrained from staying with the families except for 'visitation'
type rights.It was also rough for our Mormon ancestors to end this
practice and it took at least one generation. It is imperative in this case of
the FLDS and all similar groups that we begin.
Please leave these people alone.
"The state hinted at witnesses that would create more fireworks and 51st
District Judge Barbara Walther, stung by the appellate court's criticism, egged
the department on." From Tuesday, May 27, 2008, on-line edition of Salt Lake
Tribune.I'm not sure if the "egged" is intended as Judge Walther
encouraging and prodding CPS in its persecution of the FLDS, or if it's meant as
in "we egged the CPS on Halloween night".Whichever, this is the best
example I've seen yet of the "Hanging Judge" displaying gross misconduct and
abdication of responsibility in this travesty of justice. She needs, IMHO, to be
IMMEDIATELY jerked from the bench, severely reprimanded, and PERMANENTLY
DISBARRED from the Texas legal scene.Enough is enough, and this is
too much. I would not condone open violence against this kangaroo court, but the
scenario is attractive.
I hope that all the evidence taken from the YFZ ranch will be admissable, and
not thrown out because of the overzealous law enforcement and CPS authorities.
If they were so interested in protecting the children, maybe they could have
read the laws first, or at least reviewed their 8th grade civics textbook. (Do
they still include the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights in textbooks?) Anyway, if they had followed the rule of law
and built a solid case on available evidence, or had at least tried to
infiltrate the compound legally, they would have better probability of removing
the children from the compound and getting them to a place where they could make
their own decision on who and when they marry.
Good!! The sooner the better.
Any comments that Deseret News does not agree with will also not be posted.
It's time for the FLDS to wake up and realize that Warren Jeffs is not an
inspired leader, but a child abusing pedophile.
Build the criminal case and prosecute those who have broken the law. But
release the hundreds of innocent children.
One of the girls in the photos with Jeffs is a 13 year old(according to Texas)
that is in Texas state custody.The state also says it gave her a
physical exam and and yet has not made any charges.From the girls
pershpective, who has forcibly violated her, Texas of Jeffs?If the
so-called exam had been done focibly by anyone else what would we call that?No one should have the power to forcibly violate a child.
Something big is building. It looks rather ominous for the FLDS. The legacy of
an ugly form of polygamy continues. Was there ever a good form of polygamy? My
grandparents practiced polygamy prior to the manifesto. I am monogamous.
If the raid was illegal then the search warrant that took the evidence was also.
What idiots. Most lawyers will get those things dismissed leaving the state
without a leg to stand on. Texas should have done the search correctly so those
documents could be used in court.
Texas CPS distributed photographs to the media of an underage girl being
sexually molested by Warren Jeffs. By not concealing the identity of the victim
Texas CPS has violated the law and has become interstate child pornographers.
Since the CPS is a community they as a community should be arrested and charged
with this crime, have their personal information published on the national sex
offender registry and as sex offenders FIRED!!!
If the state can raid that ranch and take captive so many children based on an
allegation that has since all but proved false, and in such an all cost
manner...whats to stop them from construing the evidence anyway they want?
? How does A man in A closed group marry more than one at A time with out the
women knowing hes already married?
Time to shut the religious prison down. Go texas.
Someday, the FLDS will wake up and realize that Warren Jeffs is not the
righteous "prophet" they've been taught to trust and believe in, but an
uninspired pedophile.The video of Warren confessing that he is a
false prophet is real.The pictures of Warren passionately kissing a
young girl aren't doctored, The eyewitnesses aren't lying.The young girls he has raped personally or has forced into arranged marriages
to be raped by his friends are real.The boys he has kicked out of
the community are real.The families he has destroyed by reassigning
them to new fathers are real.There are many qualities to admire
about the devotion that the FLDS have to their faith. Unfortunately, that
devotion has been used by an evil, brain-washing, power-hungry, child-abusing
pedophile to corrupt, enslave and destroy the lives of the FLDS children and
photo's of my husband, who is not blood related to our daughter, hugging and
holding her close to him. It is not 'creepy', as we know the background of both
my husband and our adopted daughters. This is 'creepy' because we know Jeff's
background. BUT, is this what we are really seeing, or is what Texas CPS wants
us to 'see'? I am in no way defending Jeffs. He is where he needs to be, and
perhaps for eternity. But could this just be an innocent photo? I think any
crimes must be dealt with. But send the other children home. If all you've got
is a questionalbe photo - and one similar to many families - then you gots
Dear michaelh,You wish!Have a nice day.
CORRECTION...DALE BARLOW...NOT DAN...my mistake.
As soon as the Appelate Court decision was made, every one of those FLDS kids
was in more trouble. CPS and Judge Walther are not the kind that will sit calmy
and listen to such critism. Their only vindication will come in forcing some
type of incriminating testimony out of those kids while they are still in
captivity. They are NOT going down without a fight and those children are going
to suffer the brunt of this still. Case workers will descend on every foster
home and group home in Texas with instructions to extract SOMETHING out of those
kids that CPS can use to vindicate themselves and what they did. It would not
surprise me a bit to see a host of new allegations of abuse all of a sudden
being published by Texas CPS. As ALWAYS, the children will be the losers at the
hand of CPS. This is not longer about child abuse; it is about Texas CPS and
the Judge saving face.
THE CPS TREATED EVERYONE AT THE COMPOUND AS ONE FAMILY BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL
INBRED RELATED!!!! you are a barlow or a jessop
I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. At the very least, I expect Warren
Jeffs to be indicted for actual rape of a minor. The men who fathered children
with girls who were 13-16 at the time should also be in the first round of
charges. There might be a warrant for Merril Jessop, since he has been
performing the role of Warren Jeffs in the illegal marriages. Or perhaps Willie
Jessop, though he may disappear before that happens.
follow the paper trail....follow the money to find the source of the stink.-old chinese saying
Folks, this despicable act of treason by Texas must end now -- today -- not
later this week, not next week, not next month, and certainly not waiting
possibly years for all or any of this to make its way through the legal system
to the SCOTUS. Return ALL the children to their families, don't just throw them
a bone by returning 12 or 15 at a time. As a nation, we have to rise against
this gross miscarriage of justice, or as the theme song to the TV show "Cops"
goes, "What cha gonna do when they come for YOU?" When government refuses to act
within the scope of even any one law, we no longer have rule of law. The society
as a whole is doomed to mass collapse. Seems to me that we were warned about
this over 165 years ago . . . .
I sincerely hope that the U.S. Constitution remains in effect here, that these
"boxes of evidence" that the article mentions, which were seized unlawfully due
to an overly broad and baseless warrant in a non-criminal case, be barred from
use in any criminal prosecution. Anything else opens would completely undermine
the fourth amendment. I wish someone in Texas would read the Constitution...
Why not add tax evasion, failure of the males to register for military service,
harboring a fugitive
I think it is time to take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy.
Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns.
These young girls must think its an honor to be having Warren Jeffs
children.Please get these children the help they need.I think the state of Texas
needs to keep digging to put all those men away for a very long time.Not just in
texas but in the other states also.Mr. President must get involved in this
also.THE POOR CHILDREN HOW BRAINWASHED THEY ARE.
Some FLDS have bombarded this blog with lies, half-truths and denials since the
day this story broke. It wouldn't be a bit surprising, therefore, to
learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers who have married these
child brides and that their main concern all along was not in getting their
children back, but in halting the investigation. They're scared that
the longer Texas keeps digging the more likely it will be that Texas will find
evidence that will send these men to prison, just like their good friend, Warren
Listen you who say " was there ever a good form of polgamy." God is the God of
Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac. And what were they? Polygamists! Cover your ears lest
they fall off at such a scandalous thing. So if God is the God of old polygmists
it stands to reason that God supported the practice at one point. However God
gives and takes. He has taken the principle away for now, but you who question
it, the practice of polgamy and its validitity in any time period, STOP and
consider that Abraham a polgyamist is making it to Heaven.....or was the Bible
wrong to call Abraham a "Friend of God"?
Unfortunately, you'll probably get your wish. Some bleeding-heart judge will
rule that the evidence is inadmissable because of an overly-broad search
warrant.The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who
are destined to become their child brides, will continue to be groomed to be
their sex slaves.At least they aren't your daughters, so you can
rest peacefully at night.
Follow the money.There is a big demand for very young white children in
the adoption racket. This is a potential cash cow for Texas CPS and they aren't
about to let go easy.
YES!! YES!! YES!! Thank-you for being a sensible thinker on this blog. So many
nin-com-poops write without thinking through to how this is going to affect
THEIR RIGHTS!!! Thanks again.
I cannot believe you folks who state that you do not want this evidence used
against Jeffs! Whether you agree or disagree with CPS's decision to remove the
children, that is what happened and they now have the evidence in hand and it
was obtained with a search warrant. Why not use it? His being brought down
would be the absolute best thing possible for all of these folks, especially the
children. He's a tyrant, not a prophet. I'm sure those FLDS folks who were
commanded to "repent from afar" and split from their families will agree, but
they are just too scared to come out and say so!
FLDS pay property tax(including back taxes) and stop taking welfare in colorado
city and hildale and sending it to texas.i can't wait to hear
from the FLDS defenders ....anyone?thats
what i thought
The guilty need to go to Jail --- It's illegal to molest children.Its also illegal to "ROUND UP" a whole community of children --- release the
FLDS, so the whole world is wrong and your group is right, is that correct?How can any FLDS person justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man in
an arranged marriage??????
you mean to say they are actually going to try doing it legally, a little late
don't you think.As soon as they are done are they going to bring criminal
cases against CPS and the Officers that broke the Law to do this raid as well?
The title of this article should have read "JEFFS Criminal Cases Building."
Rounding it up as all FLDS cases building was misleading. So far CPS have
failed prove child abuse at the YFZ--the proof they've said they had, later we
find they were lying. It appears they're scraping at the bottom of the barrel
in trying to justify what they've done. A picture of Jeffs smooching a kid 2
years ago? Oh ya, that's a *really* good reason to rip kids away from their
families. Please.I'm tired of this circus show. The children
should go back home.
It's truly ironic, and laughable, that the FLDS child abusers want CPS
prosecuted for trying to protect their children from abuse.More and
more they're showing their desperation. Deep down they can see that their PR
campaign is failing and that they're headed to prison.It's too bad
these abusive old men aren't already in custody, because most of them will be in
hiding by the time they're indicted.
Hello America! You are witnessing the reality of your new government. You no
longer have the Constitution of the United States of America. You are now
governed by Homeland Security. All previously assumed rights are null and void.
Please submit yourselves to your new Government!
here is the standard FLDS argument;I'm not FLDS, I'm a
lawyer/scientist and I don't live in Utah...and I'm against child rape and
welfare fraud, Kicking young boys out of the community,BLAh blah blahbut, what the texas CPS did is reprehensible...to rip those poor kids away
from their loving mothers!!!Texas is going to pay big time for
trampling on the Constitution
Hey there! Just thought you might need to know that:If Property
Taxes are not paid, the property in question will eventually be sold for back
taxes.If a person qualifies for welfare in Hildale or Colorado City,
they must submit to all the forms and regulations that any other person living
in any other city in Utah or Arizona.What's it to you what I do with
my money? I really don't care what you do with yours.Isn't it great
to live in America?
Do the apologists for polygamy never stop? Many things were done in Biblical
times that aren't done now because people know better, so spare us the tired old
claim that God wants 50-year-old men having their way with girls young enough to
be their granddaughters. The fact that polygamy is covered under the bigamy
statute in Texas does not get the offenders off the hook. The statute does not
have to use the word 'polygamy' to outlaw the behavior. Nor would any person
fully in his or her right mine consider Warren Jeffs and those who came before
him perfect and inerrant.The only thing misleading occurring is
efforts to cover up what goes on among the FLDS. And, yes, some gullible
reporters fall into the trap of repeating FLDS propaganda. But, even as they do
that, the wheels of justice are moving inexorably through pounds of evidence
that will end the FLDS charade.
Here is my argument;I am FLDS, I am not a lawyer/scientist and I do
live in Utah...and I'm against child rape and walfare fraud, Kicking young boys
out of the community!Texas CPS is reprehensible...to rip those poor
"Children" away from their loving mothers!!!There is no Constution.
"AND YER KIDS ARE NEXT"Stop complaining about what we do. Please
see that you need to secure your own rights under what you call you
Colorado City pays the LEAST taxes and receives the MOST welfare of ANY Utah
city.so much for your self sufficient lifestyle bleed the beast
Colorado City is not in Utah. You might want to get a few basic facts straight
before you comment.
Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough,but stop and think--if
the children were left at the ranch how long do you think it would be before
they all were moved somewhere else ??With numerous other places already
established,it would not be hard to move them somewhere they would just blend
in.I have no idea how this will all end,but after all it is about the welfare of
these little innocent children.It would break my heart to if I thought any child
was made to submit to these dirty old men.
Hildale UtahMedian age 13.1Youngest in state 26.8Youngest in nationPersons per household 8.55Largest in state
3.13Largest in nationAvg household income* $21,822 $41,316Per
capita income $3,772Lowest in state $14,492% of families in poverty
32.4% 11.4%Average household adjusted gross income from federal tax
returnsSource: Utah Tax Commission 1995, US Census, Utah and Arizona
Departments of Education.Colorado City ArizonaMedian age
12.5Youngest in state 32.2Persons per household 7.97Largest in
state 2.62Avg household income* $19,663 $35,426Per capita income
$2,319 $13,461% of families in poverty 61% 11.4%Hildale
received $405,006 from federal housing grants to remodel 19 homes on FLDS land.
And Hildale Mayor David K. Zitting, an FLDS member, was appointed by two Utah
governors (Republicans Norm Bangerter and Mike Leavitt) to sit on the state
Housing Development Advisory Council.In 1998 Hildale ranked last
among Utah towns for average payment of federal income taxes paid per filer
($651 annually), but it is first for tax exemptions (3.62).
I am so sorry to hear that you have many pictures such as this of your
daughters. I can't imagine any daddy in his right mind kissing any little girl
in that manner. It doesn't matter if you try to convince people otherwise, it's
obvious what is happening in this picture. To Listen: They did a
lot of things in Bible times that just don't work for me...one of them is
polygamy. I don't think it's righteous, and it is abusive to women.
I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having Warren
Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a 50+ y/o
"However God gives and takes. He has taken the principle away for now..."I think God would be a lot happier, considering all the grief of late,
had He not introduced it in the first place.
"How can any FLDS person justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man in an
arranged marriage??????"Because Texas law said it was OK... prior to
2006 when the marriage age was raised to 16. And there was no restriction of
the age of the husband. FLDS was just following the Texas law.
thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed. too
bad. pack it up and move somewhere else. just like they moved the cabinet shop
"I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having Warren
Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a 50+ y/o
man....."Texas law sanctioned it prior to 2006.
exact numbers, but we are certain that all of the children were properly
accounted for."Just my prediction of what will happen after Texas'
Supreme Court upholds the appellate court's decision and CPS returns 203
"thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed. too
bad."If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But
Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in
effect.And incidentally, that's why Texas changed the marriage law
to 16... because FLDS came to town.
FLDS get real! In the "real world" when a 14 y/o girl is married off to a 50+
y/o man in a bogus "spiritual marriage" it's actually considered rape of a
minor. And whatever some outdated Texas law said before, never made
it right. It has always been dirty, immoral, and perverted. What
parent would actually allow their 14 y/o daughter to be married to a 5o+ y/o man
just to satisfy his sexual pleasure?
re:Mad Granny"Maybe the way that this was handled was a little
rough"a little rough? kids ripped away from loving mothers, and sent
to an abusive foster system?"how long do you think it would be
before they all were moved somewhere else ?"I thought that this was
america. I can move to anywhere I choose. Or from another perspective, CPS can
make you move anywhere it chooses."It would break my heart to if I
thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men."So this
is the only kind of abuse that would break your heart? How about children being
abused by CPS and foster care - catching diseases, losing their mother's milk,
separated from siblings, subject to underage unmarried pregnancy in foster care,
"If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't
prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect."Quite obviously, the FLDS don't care about following the law when it
comes to marriage or child abuse.Your assumption that the FLDS would
stop performing these marriages simply because the law was changed has no basis
in reality.The FLDS will do whatever their "prophet" tells them to
do, even if he's already been convicted and sent to prison for performing these
underage marriages.That's why they need to be stopped.
They don't tell the women that it's about satisfying their sexual pleasure. The
women believe that the men are "called of God" to do it and therefore they are
fulfilling their duty. They are doing it for righteousness.But of
course Warren Jeff's knows better than that. I feel for him because he is now
busted and before long these women and children are going to have their eyes
opened and then he will have to figure out how to explain he revelations.
re Angry Dadwah wah wah wah
You may be right that if Texas had handled this by legal means the FLDS may have
moved the kids... But that doesn't justify ignoring the constitution. The protections outlined in the Constitution are not conditionally granted
depending on how bad you want to get somebody, or how convenient it is to follow
them.Everyone in law enforcement knows the inconvenient truth that
the constitution sometimes makes it harder to do their job. That doesn't
justify Texas deciding all those pesky protections don't apply in this case
because what they were doing was "The right thing" and go runing in with tanks,
guns, swat-teams and a bogus warrant yelling, "Don't mess with Texas"!Just because you are convinced you are "right" doesn't null and void the
Constitution. Sometimes bad-guys get away becasue the constitution got in the
way.I think they could have done this without all the macho
grand-standing and "Don't mess with Texas" chants whenever faced with questions
about why they decided to overstep their bounds and take all kids without
evidence that specifically indicated they were underaged or endangered.We need to follow rule-of-law.
watch 20/20 tonight!!!!! FLDS that don't have televisions...go to the abc
website and watch it there.
the polygamy special is on 48 hours...cbs-sorry
they ask willie jessop about any underage marriages, he says; "not that I know
To "Mad Granny", "a little rough" in no way describes what CPS did to these
children and mothers. They have been traumatized beyond measure and that abuse
will continue as long as the children are in the hands of CPS. I thought we
were in America and had the right to move anywhere we want - that is, unless you
are under the control of CPS and they decide where and when. Everyone keeps
harping about all of the abuse these children experience under the hand of all
of these "dirty old men" but CPS has failed to document any of that. If it was
out there and was that prevelant, wouldn't CPS have documented it in Court by
now if for no other reason than to justify their actions somehow? WHere are the
charges? If anyone broke the law, CHARGE somebody and get them out of there;
however, return the children to their mothers before more harm than good is done
I think it's very ironic that one of the main claims of abuse from Texas CPS was
that people in the YFZ Ranch (especially children) were cut off from the outside
(no cable TV, not news papers, no internet, etc)... So what is the first thing
Texas does when they take the 450+ kids away from their opressors??? Take away
their cell-phones and isolate them! Isn't that exactly what they were accusing
the abusive parents of doing?Doesn't anybody see a problem with
that? If they were so cut off from the outside... Where did they
get the cell phones?Especially disturbing is... Texas misrepresented
the reason for taking all cell-phones from FLDS people, saying it was because
they may find out what to say from their leaders, when it is more than obvious
they only acted when some FLDS people contacted the media using their cell
phones to report the abhorant conditions in Texas custody.What right
does Texas have to take away ANYBODY's cell phone who has not been charged with
a crime? To isolate them, to prevent them from communicating whith lawyers,
media or whoever they want to?And yet, many keep saying, "Way to go
"not that I know about"What a weasel answer from Willie Jessop. This
is a very tight community. Does Willie really expect us to believe that if there
was even one underage marriage he wouldn't know about it?He knows
that there are underage marriages, so he answers with the standard "I don't
know" answer, so there won't be any video proof that he was lying when the truth
Re: Listen | 8:51 a.m. May 27, 2008 This my second attempt to
respond to your post. I guess the monitors have it in for Silver Fox, or better
yet, comments are allowed, but not discussion.Polygamy may be spoken
of in the bible, however I'm not sure that is the answer. From whom did the
FLDS receive authority to practice polygamy.Polygamy is tough to
understand among the LDS prior to the manifesto. Please don't tell me that after
the manifesto it comes from Warren Jeffs.
I started my blog on behalf of FLDS right after the state's action. I am
pentecostal, not mormon. I am not so much a lover of FLDS as I am a lover of the
constitution. Any action, under color of law, should begin with an investigation
into a suspected wrongdoing...and,then,obtain admissible evidence that may or
may not support a prosecution.The latter would best be determined through the
mechanism of a grand jury proceeding.What has happened in this
case(in my opinion)has been that CPS has abused the statute(Family Code 262.201)
under which they can operate with a much lower threshold of proof than is
ordinarily required of either a civil or criminal case. I suppose the legislature trusted that CPS officials would use that statute with integrity -
and in a reasonable and prudent manner to achieve the objective of intervening
to protect the health and safety of a child. This case, in particular, proves
that such legislative trust was misplaced. CPS has been in a conspiracy with
other law enforcement agencies to storm that compound using the pretext of
seeking a captive minor - which they knew to be a hoax.
//These men should be prosecuted! //Which men? Got any names?//Time to shut the religious prison down.//You have an odd
definition of "prison".//take action against both ordinary and
serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become
pawns. //Good luck with that, since it means all but eliminating
legal divorce.//It wouldn't be a bit surprising, to learn that some
of these bloggers are the child abusers //Keep telling yourself
that; the facts are otherwise. //The child rapists will celebrate
and the little girls, who will to become their child brides, will be groomed to
be their sex slaves.//And your evidence of that is...?//Why not use it?//You want illegally obtained evidence to be
admissible? When such a precedent can have disastrous effects for the civil
liberties of all Americans?//How can anyone justify a 14 y/o girl
marrying a 50+ y/o man?//Which marriage are you referring to?//how long would it be before they were moved somewhere else ?//Who the heck cares?//We need to follow rule-of-law. //If only the rabidly anti-FLDS people would realize that!
This inbreeding has to STOP!
PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?All of the state's grievous actions in
it's gestapotactics, and justifications for such actions, has been touted
as doing so to "protect the children".Regardless of the ages of
those mothers(or fathers), those children were secure, sheltered and living in
an environment of love and happiness.When the state tore those children
away fromtheir parents, they could not possibly process orunderstand
what was happening to them. Mostwill feel that they have done something
wrong...and will feel the anguish of guilt and fear inbeing
separated from that bonding. With a strange environment the child is even more
frightened and confused.Finally,it is reported by the mental health
workers that, instead of trying to comfort those children, the behavior of the
CPS staff toward those children and mothers is unbelievably mean, uncaring and
nasty. They are being treated as inmates in a maximum security prison.Is this child protection?
If the person who mentioned "sexually molested" meant the pictures of Warren
Jeffs kissing the girl, I think they are overstating the case. Such kissing of
a 12-year-old is not a behavior I would condone on the part of a 49-year-old,
and if I ever have a daughter I would definantly not tolerate any adult man
kissing her that way when she is still a minor. Still, I do not think
the picture alone could prove a case for sexual molestation, although it would
go a long ways towards getting a jury to convict. I am more worried that
the nature of the way the warrant was obtained will disqualify the evidence
found in the raid. The problem that Texas will face, as Utah and
Arizona have, is it is hard to prosecute those who have sexual relations with
minors when neither the minor nor the minor's parents feel that a crime has been
To John B: The women know that these men are already married. The FLDS
hold that to recieve full exaltation a man must have three wives. This,
personally I hold to be false doctrine, but to deal with them you have to
realize they hold this view.
PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?The state's grievous tactics and actions
has been touted as doing so the "protect the children".Regardless of
the age of those mothers(or fathers)the children were secure, sheltered and
living in an environment of love and happiness. They were bonded to their
mothers,and/or mothers as the case may be.When the state tore those
children away from their parents, they could not possibly process or understand
what was happening to them. Most will feel that they must have done something
wrong..and will feel the anguish of guilty and fear. Add to that a strange and
unfamiliar environment and the child is even more frightened and confused.Then, reports come out from the mental health workers that the CPS staff
is treating those mothers and children unbelievably cruel and nasty...as though
they are inmates in a maximum security prison. One girl's baby was kidnapped as
soon as she delivered - with no chance to bond with that baby...or breast feed
the infant.Is this what CPS considers to be protection of the
What I don't understand is how any woman could consent to this 3 wife rule. If
you want a girlfriend to hang out with, you can always make friends with your
neighbor, one that has her own husband. Even if I were single, I
would not want to join in someone else's marriage just for the sake of being
don't worry...very soon that baby will have a chance to bond with an adult. say
in like 12- 13 years
would you give one of your 3 daughters to some 50 year old in 'spiritual
Oh Joseph Smith. Look at the mess you started with your revelation on celestial
marriage. It just won't go away.
In Europe this news about FSLD sect is taken very seriously; the rights of
children, of women, and of course, also of religion.The main enemy
of free speech is somehow free speech itselfIt's very depressing,
although I think it was a good decision not to keep the children collectively
away from there mothers.By the way; where are the fathers.........??The writers of the USA constitution have been closely looking in the
past at the Dutch "declaration of independence", while being occupied by the
Spanish armies.The very delicate mix in both constitutions about
freedom, equality, dignity of children and safety makes it necessary for any new
generation to re-invent the right balance, just because by not doing so,
children girls and boys and women are over and over again the first victims
considered their dignity.I know that Europe is a lot to blame;Colonization, slavery, two world wars and a holocaust.Also two
unimaginable incest dramas in Austria these days.(24 years below the
floor,incl.4 children of his own lockes up daughter).Natasha Kampush (8
years locked up somewhere else) has told the BBC that she thinks she can be of
any help.Alfredo, Amsterdam.
Enter commentI no longer have any faith in the lawThe Judicial system is
controled by CRIMINALS
Because it looks like the civil proceedings are going down the tube, maybe the
possible criminal might be in order. Of coarse with the higher standard of
evidence, and because there is no evidence, this is all just empty talk.
Can those of you who keep defending the whole idea of polygamy, by using the
bible, please just get over yourselves?The people in the bible also
owned, sold and traded slaves with G-s blessing even!The first
Republican Party platform was right "The platform states that it is "the
imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the territories those twin relics of
barbarism-polygamy and slavery."Quit using a religion to cover your
unquenchable thirst for misogynistic abuse, power and control. You're sick
barbarians. Plain and simple.
To R:You want a name to prosecute, try Merril Jessop. Since Warren Jeffs is already locked up and it's common knowledge that Merril
was running the show in Texas for the last 4 years, then he is responsible for
the underage marriages in the YFZ too.That's if Merril will come out
from under the rock he is hiding under!
Sure, the CPS and the FBI knew exactly what they were after when they went in
there. They knew exactly what they were looking for...computers with digital
photos, a bed in the temple. Remember every picture tells a story and every
picture has a negative or is in a computer. They knew what girls to look for
etc. This is just the tip of the iceberg. These were obvious "wedding pictures"
and how many more are there and of what men and girls? The teenager from Canada
supposedly visiting a grandmother when her grandmothers live in British Columbia
and Alberta respectively.What amazes me if how far the polygamist
promoters go in justifying abuse of 12 year old girls by a 52 year old man
The Bible doesn't "promote" slavery. The Bible (esp. OT) places strict limits on
slavery (such as a limit of seven years), although not going so far as banning
I think that what Boots meant, and most people understood, is that you can't use
the Bible as an excuse to live a lifestyle that is abusive or degrading to
another human being in todays world. Apparently, since then we have
learned that all human beings should be treated equally. In earlier times,
remember women were not treated as equals. In fact, they could be traded or
sold. Same with slaves. We got over that,too. No need to go back.
I watched 48 hours this evening and the man who interviewed Big Willie did not
mince word one bit..he lay-ed the cards right on the table....and Willie boy
lost his cool....he showed his true colors ! !...He is such a weasel
"Then why do you want me to answer those questions?" Jessop asks. "Because your church has been accused of sexually abusing children, thats
why," Van Sant says. "So has the Catholics, so has any other
religion, including Mormons. Should we just take them all down? Is there not a
crime committed in any religion? Why do we single it out?" Jessop says."Isn't it interesting that when cornered they always seem to go back to
accusing others of doing wrong. Fortunately that doesn't generally hold up in
court as a good defense, 'Hey, some Catholic priest abused little boys, so why
shouldn't we be able to rape little girls?'Polygamy is sexual
slavery. Period. You simply raise your victim to believe she can't get to heaven
without becoming a concubine. The whole thing is just sick beyond belief and I
can't believe we are allowing a modern generation of American women to be turned
into sex slaves by these perverts.I guess Utah, Arizona and the rest
of the country can let this happen. Texans won't.
Did anyone watch CBS 48 Hours tonight. The interviews with people who have
escaped from the FLDS are amazing. The people who have left or have been kicked
out all tell of the abuse and control that take place in the FLDS society. I
hope that the viewing public can come to their senses and demand that the crimes
here be punished by the law. People being kicked out of the compound, wives
re-assigned to other men, young men being forced out on their own with little or
no ability to cope with society. Now tell me this is religion. Texas CPS is not
waging a war against a religion, they are wagging war against a repressive
society that has taken the rights away from people. We have only began to
scratch the surface of this problem.
They have Rape, Child Molestation, Broken Bones, Forced Marriage and Marriage of
underage girls to old men. The purpose of which is to impregnate the females.
Mind Control, Brain Washing, Casting Out, Switching of Wives and Children from
one male to another. Incest, Inbreeding, Race Hate, that is what they have among
other things. If you put children in an unsafe environment when stuff happens to
them, the blood is on your hands. Did you think that when Jeffs went to Jail,
that the problems of the people where over, and the oppressed would be freed,
well think again.
These poor young girls indoctrinated into the church of rape. The U.S. needs to
step in and let all of these brainwashed mothers, wives, and uh,
sister-wifes?...of the way of the rest of the U.S.I am very curious
how the influx of money to all of these wives and inter-families work. How are
the tax dollars being applied, when they are seeming to have government
contracts, and running a town.I also wonder, why (well, not so much)
they do not want their children to 'know the impurity of the outsiders'...when
it seems that all of them are ...at best...first or second cousins intermingling
and reproducing.There are laws broken right there.Never
mind that so many have 2 or 3 children by the time they are 17 or 18...statutory
rape.DNADNADNAThe result is
going to be absolutely gross and horrific...this much I already know.
To: "re; grandpa phil", I will answer your dumb question. I offer any of the
FLDS families sanctuary against unjust and illegal persecution and denial of
familial rights. I never said I did not have a problem with a pre-teen marrying
a 50 yr old man. In all of these proceedings, none of us has yet been made
aware of any such marriage going on in the FLDS group either. All we have heard
from CPS and the gainsaying hate-mongers is innuendo and bombastic allegations
served up only to create a firestorm of maniacal hatred against people who are
different. I have talked with these people and I find them pleasant,
intelligent, and caring; characteristics which are sorely lacking among those
trying to take their children away. If one of those families needs a place
where no one will bother them or threaten them, my home is sanctuary. It is for
my family and it can be for theirs too. My daughters are 9, 8, and 19 months
and we will not be looking to any weddings for MANY years. I was 43 when I
married my 19 yr old wife 13 years ago. 'Nuff Said. Any more dumb questions?
There is a story about someone trying to sell a child, on Craigs List;is Texas
CPS already selling the FLDS children, to the highest bidder? Man that is fast!
COSMO, sounds like a good rumor to start. It is better than some of the
fanciful ideas put out in here lately.
Oh, how I wish, Peter Van Sant would of had more time interviewing Big Willie on
48 hours.Looked like to me,Big Boy was about ready to blow a gasket ! Big O'
Willie refused to look at the BISHOP'S List, confirming underage marriages to
men old enough to be the little girls great-grandpas'. I have to wonder about
Willie Jessop, how many wives does he have, and are any of them little girls?
Can anyone answer that question for me?
To Sharon: I found Willie's interview comical. He looked like a
poster child for anger management.And don't expect a straight answer
from the FLDS on anything. So far, all we get from them is "I can't recall",
"Not as far as I know", or the proverbial "I've never seen it"... ha
Boy, they got the best of him on 48 hours, didn't they?! It was obvious he is
not accustomed to being questioned, and that he has some anger issues! I think
the FLDS attempted PR campaign is quickly coming undone...
Who could believe that Willie Jessop was angry? What's the big deal? Only 400+
children were taken away, it's not like they are important or anything.
Perhaps some FLDS members can help with a couple of questions. How many of the
children are Willie Jessop's? How old are the mothers? Will Willie being
joining Merril in hiding soon?
J-man...I totally agree with you...That Willie is about as phony as a three
dollar bill in my books.Seeing that all reply in the same way and tone,I
have to wonder if all the FLDS members have regular weekly meeting instructing
them how to answer questions.INTERLOPER...One can only guess how many
others are in hiding with the Father of the Year..Merrill Jessop. He and his
wife both need prison time for giving their little girl over Warren Jeffs.
I google'd in Willie Jessop aka Willie Timpson...very interesting reading for
anyone who would like more info on him.
FLDS will be left alone when they quit making slaves out of women and children,
and let the FLDS women do whatever they please and marry whoever they please.
You FLDS men are sex abusers, cowards and frauds.
To: Enquiring Minds want to know | 10:22 a.m. May 29, 2008 You
clown, Willie Jessop and William Timpson are two different people. Get your
facts straight please.
Hey...get your facts straight..and dont hide behind FLDS girl when it should be
FLDS guy...not only that do your research. WILLIE ?? is that you?
I beleive that some of the under age girls, while being protected by CPS,
have allready began to open up and are telling of abuse by guess who? Mr. W.
Jessop, should soon begin running and hiding with M.J. Arrests are coming
soon. CPS gave you FLDS men a chance to run and hide, but you instead became
caught up in the notion that the state would return your under age sex slaves
and tell you "never mind, carry on", but look at the bright side, you may
receive a cell right next to Mr. Jeffs, and get full protection from your worst
enemies,- the other men in prison! Just like with Jeffs, the govt. will stop at
nothing to get justice. DNA will confirm that after Jeffs arrest, some others
are guilty of continuing the child rape, defenders beware!!!
As a child, I lived in a community that had polygamists. My girlfriend in school
was married off when she was 14 and was pregnant soon after. I felt so helpless
to do anything for her when she was so obviously unhappy. Ultimately, she was
forbidden contact with any of her schoolmates and was withdrawn from school.Because of this experience, I find myself believing what the authorities
have found. I know my girlfriend was abused and I doubt that anything has
changed in the last few years. The brides keep getting younger and the boys are
thrust into outside society ill prepared to function and fearful if they say
anything there will be horrible retaliation. I believe when the
authorities begin a full investigation, they will discover a large number of
FLDS members who have disappeared over the years.Don't pre-judge
until all the facts are in. FLDS is a sex cult in my opinion.