$how me the money
The result of Mrs. Wall's book pre-release publicity Hoax in Texas resulted in
the "Stolen Innocence" of over 400 children. I pray she can live with herself. I
She has books to sell. Just one more of the FLDS damning book selling crowd. Bet
she hopes you all will buy one. Money the root of all evil. They don't say that
You go girl! The only way to break the diabolical hold Warren Jeffs has on his
followers is to drain his coffers of the money he's stolen from them. Use that
money to heal as many victims as possible.Christian women take note.
Give some men an inch, and they'll take a mile. The "male headship" rhetoric
that you've been hearing in recent decades is dangerous stuff. Do you want your
lives and those of your daughters' to be as miserable as those of the women in
the FLDS?Nip it in the bud, ladies! Tell your husbands you want to
be part of a healthy church where women are respected!
Based on what I read on this forum, this book will be a runaway best seller. Go
for it!!Will I buy it. No. I will wait for the movie.(Also, some brave librarian will order it for their library and I can pick it
I am glad the book is out. there is so much secrecy about the FLDS, that it will
help to shed more light on the practices. Elissa Wall has a lot of courage and
I hope that the book sells well and that the money will help to get other young
women out of situations that are abusive.
Warren Jeffs, presided over young teen boys being kicked out of their
communities and their homes never to be seen again by their families. He
convinced a wife of a man who was taking care of him to leave her husband along
with the kids, and the poor man never saw his wife again. He comes out and
tells people not to wear red, forcing poor people to get rid of many of the
clothes in their closet. He continues the myth that unless these poor men and
women life in plural marriage that they can't go to heaven making this life a
burden for them.Warren Jeffs is a desaster, he has caused a lot of
pain to a lot of people.
i'm sure she will have a $million$ reasons to get to through her "trials" in
life. sorry but i only see the crocodile tears.
Elissa Wall is a brave woman for having the courage to stand up to Warren Jeffs
and ascert her rights to make her own choices.Hopefully, her efforts
will give other young FLDS girls the courage to throw off the shackles of these
controlling men.Not surprisingly, Mr. $o $ad above is upset that the
pool of available child brides could be seriously affected by all of these
And why not? If she were your daughter or sister....?
It is unfortunate Elisa Wall decided to use fake names for many of the
characters in her book. She had no choice for they are all lies. To use a real
name may have resulted in a libel and slander issue of which I am sure her
lawyers warned her on.
I say to her good job. I think it is very admirable what she has done to stand
up to oppressive people. What she has done will help many people.
is now happy, but I notice that she and Carolyn both have their children with
First it was Carolyn Jessop, now it's Elissa Wall. Anytime a former member who
has escaped from the FLDS speaks out about what is really happening within the
FLDS community, the FLDS smear campaign begins.They know that some
of their practices are illegal, and evil, but don't want the rest of the world
to know that.The trial and conviction of Warren Jeffs is a joke to
them. They're so trapped in their delusions that his edicts are god's will, that
they can't see him for who he truely is, a con-artist and child abuser.
Another escapee from the religion no one escapes.And a book deal to
boot, eh?I should "escape" the Southern Baptist "cult" and write a
book on my terrible ordeal. I'm sure the chapter on infant male genital
mutilation (circumcision) will be particularly engaging. Perhaps they'll raid
all the Baptist churches in Texas and take away their kids. Any doctor could
confirm the "systematic pattern of abuse".
She was a victim of the FLDS cult. She has to right to write a book if she
wants. There are more victims than just her. Just do some research.
General Guidelines for FLDS Children Ages 0-2 YearsA General Daily
Schedule for FLDS Children Ages 2-6 YearsA General Daily Schedule
for FLDS Children 1st - 3rd GradesA General Daily Schedule for FLDS
Children 4th grade HighschoolA General Daily Schedule for FLDS
Mothers Ages 14-18 Years (NOT NEEDED: Because our 14-year-olds don't wear
makeup, these children seem young, but they are very bright and understand more
than adults realize. They have been well indoctrinated, er, taught, to be child
brides, and, even though they only have a 7th grade education, they are fully
prepared to take on the responsibilities of being a wife, mother and child at
age 14.)A General Daily Schedule for FLDS Boys Ages 14-18 Years
Surviving on the Streets(NOT NEEDED: Although our 14-year-old girls are
"sweet", our 14-year-old boys are a mess. Thankfully most of the competition,
er, boys, have been kicked out of our community and are no longer our
Good for her but nope I won't be buying it as am sick of everyone writing a
book. Will she donate the money to the cause of heling the "lost boys" or other
women that need to escape or will she pocket it and gloat
That she has her child with her as does Carolyn.
Starting over has nothing to do with writing a book to get gain. But of course,
all those FLDS haters (or should I say mostly LDS haters who want to lump that
church together with the cult?) out there will buy her book. Enjoy your hate.
What you and the other ladies are doing takes a lot of guts. Hopefully your
stories will be enough to make others sit up and take notice. I hope that all of
you make tons of money from your books. But I don't think that money is the
reason that you have done what you have done. The world needs to see what goes
on behind these walls of secrecy. There is a saying that goes something like
this "Evil can only prevail when good people do nothing". Keep up the good
has a fund or fondation been set up for all the victims?
Forced marriages are wrong! Woman and men should always have the choice to
decide who they wish to spend their lives together with for eternity. Elissa
Wall is a brave woman to come forth and tell it how it is. I'm certain that the
FLDS cultists are backbiting her on this DN post. The FLDS men are self
gratifying hypocrites! They need to quit using GOD to do their evil practices on
boy, I have never seen so many polygamists wanting to use the internet since
this has unfolded. All upset the world peeked in on your depravity, eh?
I watched the trial on court TV and I have to say...Elisa Wall by testifying
against Warren Jeffs was a very brave thing to do.It makes me wonder,just how
many more young FLDS women wish they had the guts and courage to do the same,
but are scared to death to do so. For you all who didnt get to watch the
trial....Warren Jeffs set there like a wounded little rat trying to gain
sympathy from the court..didnt work though...the little weasel is right where he
belongs...BEHIND BARS !!I for one...am very proud of Elisa Wall and all
the other FLDS ex-members who are welling to gave of their time, and or money to
help the Texas FLDS people.
It's no surprise that the FLDS propagandists, some trying to disguise themselves
as people from other religions or other regions of the country, are dismissing
Elissa's book as simply a money-making effort, just as they did Carolyn Jessop's
book.They're simply blind followers of a deranged leader parroting
each other's comments.The more innocent people who can be freed from
this mind-controlling group, the better. God bless her for trying to make it
easier for others to escape.
Ok. I don't have the intestinal fortitude or morals to live my religion.
Secular society says that I shouldn't blame myself so I'll blame my family,
friends, and church leaders..."embellishing" events as I go. To be safe, I
won't use real names so I can't be sued for slander.I feel really guilty
with no self esteem but some cash will really help me feel better.Will you
buy my book?Please.
Gee, I wonder which of the above comments are from the FLDS readers? "I hope she
can live with herself. I pity her". Another says she's just after the $ and we
all know money is the root of all evil. Re: Avengence. Tell me what color of
pastel you're wearing right now and if you can do that hair braid yourself.Nobody except some poor indoctorinated soul would think that exposing a
group that forces a 14 year old little girl to have sex would condemn her book.
C'mon. Who do you think you fooling? Instead of pretending your a Baptist or a
reasonable person justifying marrying off little girls, your best result would
be commenting as to why you disapprove of the practice and then give lame
excuses why you disapprove. This really work better than what you're doing and
this is the last tip I'm giving you! Now, put up your dukes.
Elissa Wall -- you go, girl. :-)Everyone -- Wall's case is not about
polygamy. She wasn't in a polygamous marriage; she was forced into a monogamous
marriage at fourteen years of age and then forced to have sex with a man not of
her choosing. What is so difficult to understand here? FORCING A PERSON TO HAVE
SEX AGAINST THEIR WILL IS BOTH IMMORAL AND ILLEGAL. IT'S CALLED RAPE.I see two big issues with the FLDS -- the forced marriages of young girls, and
the throwaway boys. If it were not for these issues, I doubt that any
significant number of people would care about the polygamy. I also
suspect that any prosecutions for polygamy between consenting adults that the
adults had the sense to appeal to the Supreme Court would result in the laws
against it being overturned. But prosecutions for forced marriage, rape and
abandonment of children are a whole different matter; when that stuff happens,
it *should* be prosecuted.
Because her parents don't have any money and, more importantly, because the FLDS
church and it's leaders are the ones ultimately responsible for her forced
marriage and rape.
FLDS guide for bleeding satan;1.don't finish building your house, so you
don't have to pay property tax on it2.claim your a single mother with 12
kids to the welfare office3.take federal highway money and public school
money and put it in your pocket.4.underbid all the other legitimate
businesses around town ,and use the young boys and girls for slave labor5.
when running from the F.B.I., dress normally and drive a RED cadilac escalade
Don't get me wrong, Brave Woman; I take a back seat to no one in condemning FLDS
practices and dearly hope to see every last predator male in a Texas prison.However it is a typical reaction to adversity in our culture; get a
lawyer, get a book deal, pump that 15 minutes of fame for all the ca$h you can
grab.Hopefully a book will enlighten the larger society about what
FLDS is actually about; bad and good. Hopefully it will not further
sensationalize an already sordid and poorly understood situation.However, if there are any assets to be had I would like to see them used to do
the most good for the most FLDS victims, not lining the pockets of lawyers.
Since Elisa was underage, why did prosecutors not go after her parents like
Texas did? Clearly they contributed more than Jeffs and should be held to a
higher standard as parents. Why has there been no trial yet for the alleged
rapist, but Jeffs trail was completed? Charges for Steed happened AFTER Jeffs
was found guilty of accessory. Why is it that though, women are "watched
carefully and have no life" she managed to commit "adultery" and get pregnant by
a Barlow?Why is it that Carolyn Jessop's "escaped" but her daughter
Betty returned to the FLDS 5 years later when she was 18 years and two days?
Certainly she had time to process any abuse and deprogram. Why is it that Fawn
Holms, after her talk show circuit for having "escaped the cult" also returned?
It seems that the FLDS and "escapees" are just the flavor of the
month and 15 minutes of fame will end shortly.I "escaped" from the
Catholic cult into the warm embrace of Agnosticism. I should write a booking
and share the horrors...oh the hours of forced kneeling....sheer abuse. It's
time that we all stopped playing the victim card and move on.
I'll buy her book.
"I don't have the intestinal fortitude or morals to live my religion. Secular
society says that I shouldn't blame myself so I'll blame my family, friends, and
church leaders..."A prime example of the FLDS hatred and why
innocent people are so afraid to leave your despicable group.
Is it just me or are all ex-flds sounding like "million little pieces" from the
Oprah book club? If the group was acting as one, why do the stories seem to
contradict one another. Flora says that children have inferior educations,
Caroline says that they are way above average in their education. Caroline says
that there was a red revelation and some women pulled out red roses to replace
them with pink one while other women continued to wear their red dresses. All
make the claim that they are always "watched" and have no privacy yet, Elisa
manages to have an affair and get pregnant by a Barlow. Even Flora spoke with
"Sarah" that started this whole process for an hour at times and repeatedly as
did cps. Why is it that so many children were abused by Merrill, Caroline's
husband, yet Betty returned when she was of age, after having been gone 5 years?
Why is it that when this first came out the Lost boys were all "kicked out as
competition for females" and now some are runaways that got involved with
drugs.Sorry, I like consistency and the Ex's aren't consistent with
one another or themselves.
I was going to comment but what's the use of doing so? everyone from FLDS are
ganging up on ELISSA WALL. You FLDS, people need to live with the truth and get
use to people knowing the truth about you. ELISSA did what was right rather any
of you want to agree with it or not. I see that there are a very LARGE amount of
saintly people on this blog....NOT!!!
I find it odd that the state filed charges against Warren Jeffs as accomplice
when the fact was that Rulon ordered the marriage with Jeffs only supporting his
prophet. If a woman, any woman seeks out marital advice, a good counselor tried
to keep the family whole if possible. How was Warren's counseling any
different? The damage was already done when Rulon arranged and completed the
marriage. Was it insane that a 19 year old boy was forced to marry a 14 year
old? Yes, but that began with Rulon. Place blame where appropriate.
I realize you're trying to disguise yourself as a non-polygamous Utah resident
simply commenting on the infringement of a religious group's civil rights and a
book with a slanted view of that religion. However, you have to work on your
sentence structure and presenting your ideas clearly. A simple glance at a
paragraph you've written gives you away. I know a lack of education has you at
a disadvantage, but ideas you're trying to convey simply are not coming across
as you want them to. Are there some adult education classes in Colorado City you
can register for?
"I like consistency"Get used to disappointment.The
ex-FLDS each have stories based on their own experiences. Some of the details of
the stories may not be consistence, but the overall theme is:That
the FLDS church is lead by a controlling group of men whose authority is
absolute and whose edicts, regardless of how ridiculous, abusive, or against the
law, must be followed without question. Freedom of expression and the right to
disent are not allowed. Child abuse is sanctioned and encouraged by the church
and its leaders.
For God's sake! no one knows anything about this!Wait until "due process
of law"speculation is just that: speculation!I believe this "texas
mess" will be overturned due to the 1st. 4th. and, 14th amendment in Federal
Court; which as you know trumps state law.Please do not take accusation as
fact!If this case is thrown out due to illegal search the Judge, Governor,
head of CPS in texas, Mayor and, Sheriff will be removed from office by ballot
or, the U.S. Marshal...and, Mr. Jeff's will be set free. (See Short Creek
Aftermath)I speculate that these "spritual marriages" are most likely the
same non-sexual "Godfather" type of assigns as the Catholic Church performs for
the financial support of children: if anything happens to their birth parents.
The only thing I have seen so far is that "Baptist" Judge walter is
predjudicial and, should recuse herself from these proceedings; however, she
appears willing to destroy her career in her zeal and, hate for these "strange"
people.As for the "lost" boys: I would surmise that this was due to
teenage immmaturity.The real Book on the LDS will be soon written please
wait for it. I am.
To- Tip to FLDS readers, I agree, I notice the same thing as you did while
reading these posts. Also, FLDS men pose as woman on some of these Flds posts.
What they say and write on here a normal woman would never say! These Flds guys
are really something else! God certainly has his hands full with all
these lying deviates.
I'm glad her book is out. Those who read it will be able to learn a lot about
this culture from a one-time-insider's point of view.I've never seen
a story where there weren't at least 2 sides to the story (and the truth is
somewhere in between). I'm wondering if we will ever see a book documenting the
rest of the story (from the husband's point of view).Her husband's
testimony in court didn't match her story, so obviously there is more than just
her perspective of the events. I know the 19 year old husband may
totally be lieing or under Jeff's spell and not even know he's lieing, but still
I'd like to hear his account of the rape and events leading up to it.I'm not saying either of them isn't telling the truth. Sometimes it's just a
matter of perspective, but I like to hear both sides of the story before I form
my own opinion.
Polygamy is a crime. The polygamists are lucky that the attorney generals in
Utah, Texas and Arizona have chosen to look the other way as thousands of
citizens continue to take part in plural marriage. This is the real problem.
Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff is afraid to enforce the law for several
reasons:1) the cost would be too great,2) the convictions could be
overturned after an appeal to federal courts,3) the LDS Chuch could
reinstitute polygamy,4) some of his ancestors were polygamists, and they
might frown on his siding with the "enemy,"5) the LDS Church doesn't want
more publicity for an offshoot cult because the media intentionally would
confuse readers and viewers over the FLDS and the LDS,6) it is difficult
to come up with enough proof to convict a person of polygamy,7) the
government approves of homosexual activity, sodomy, extramarital sexual activity
and premarital sexual activity and, therefore, implicitly considers polygamous
sexual activity no worse as Justice Scalia warned in his dissent over the sodomy
issue,8) 18-year-old girls are old enough to vote and to serve in the
military; therefore, they're old enough to marry into polygamy.
I am FLDS and Elissa can do what ever she wants rather it hurts family or
friends it don't matter. What matters is when her and others try to not let me
or other do what we believe and want to do. We are not brainwashed anymore than
you are with the media hype. This case is not the norm of what happens there
where many circumstances that we don't know about that brought this marriage
togather. Elissa can feel like a victim and even make money feeling that way,
just let others have the same privledge
Before the Warren Jeffs trial and the raid on the YFZ ranch, I was ambivalent
about the FLDS church and their practice of polygamy, as I am with most
polygamists. I had driven through Colorado City and Hilldale many times on my
way to Arizona and looked on the people living there as nothing more than a
curiousity.Thanks to the Jeffs trial, my attention was drawn to
other news about the FLDS church and its practices. I've gained an appreciation
for the many good, decent, hard-working, God-fearing people within the FLDS
communities, but they also have some serious moral and legal issues within their
belief system that need to be addressed.Instead of criticizing the
news media and castigating people who are sincerely concerned about the welfare
of the FLDS children and women, the FLDS should take a hard look in the mirror
and come to terms with the true source of their problems -- following the
misguided and often illegal directives of FLDS leaders who are leading the FLDS
people astray.A long time ago, the FLDS founders lost their way.
Hopefully, these events will help some FLDS members find their way back.
This is a response to.... It's About Money, May14...7:11am.Did you
ever stop to think Elisa used fake names in her book to protect family and
friends from the likes of Warren Jeffs's cronies on the outside? Also, the
people mentioned in her book, might of asked Elisa, not to use their real name.
I guess not...otherwise you wouldnt of posted such nonsense.
"If this case is thrown out due to illegal search the Judge, Governor, head of
CPS in texas, Mayor and, Sheriff will be removed from office by ballot or, the
U.S. Marshal...and, Mr. Jeff's will be set free."Wishful thinking on
the part of an FLDS zealot.
Jim G. You need a refresher on your law degree, there is not illegal search.
Just becasue they didn's find the caller in the raid, does not invalidate the
raid. It is not fruits of the poisonus vine.If I enter a house
witha warrant for Illegal documents and find drugs I can seize the drugs, even
though they are not on the warrant.The entered the compound to find
a person reporting sexual, mental and physical abuse. When they found multiple
people that apparenlty suffered from those atrocities, they erred on teh side of
caution and we know have the results. Was it perfect no; however,
now they have to deal with it. With the information supplied there is
notviolation of the amendments you quote.
Jim asks us not to speculate for God's sake....then he goes right
ahead and 'speculates' this will be turned over on the 4th..1st and
whatever......hahahahaI'm glad to see the FLDS are
buying computers and posting...the FLDS defenders are what keeps me glued to the
screen. it's so dang interesting!!
I'm NOT FLDS, but i agree with Jim in Reno. everyone that doesn't like what the
FLDS does is misinformed and wrong. Prophet warren..ooops i mean Mr. Jeffs ,will
be released and the lost boys deserved to get kicked out of town for teenage
immmaturity!!! Texas CPS will git sued for a gazillion dollars and Judge Walter
will declare 'spiritual marriage" totally awesome!!!I really like laws
like the 1st' 4th and 14th amendment, but i don't care too much for laws like
the ones against polygamy, underage forced marriage,pandering and fraud...those
laws are ignorant but I'm not FLDS...
Amazing number of people on here who have no legal training making legal
statements that make no sense. Just because it has a number doesn't mean it
applies to anything. Rape is Rape to those clueless FLDS posters on
To A FLDS : 11:44am May14,No one said you couldnt have the same
privledge as Elisa,if thats what you want to call it. If you feel you were
forced into a marriage at a very young age and raped...by all means do something
about it. You do have a choice in the matter. As far as Elisa and the others not
letting you do as you believe and want to..well DUH! They are not the ones
stopping you...it the Law. They are just informing the Law and the public to
what goes on behind closed doors, gates..etc...in the FLDS cult !
Alot of these comments ring of FLDS speaking as outsiders trying to sound
reasonable and main stream calling for protection.How interesting
they sound. The predators are dressed in sheeps clothing trying to protect there
heard of sheep (child brides). Just remember wolves in sheeps clothing come in
many variations but they all have the same goal.
So, where are the FLDS fathers and mothers stating "Underage marriage doesn't
happen in my family or community" or "I wouldn't allow my underage daughter to
get married, regardless of what church leaders told me because it is just
wrong?" It is time for FLDS parents to step forward and say they
won't put up with this. Further, it is time for FLDS leaders to change their
policies about child marriages and marriages between close relatives.As for Elissa, congratulations for having the fortitude for being willing to
testify about an immoral and illegal practice. I hope your book does well; you
should be rewarded for taking a stand.One last thought. Texas may
have initially allowed marriage with young girls to allow for the stupid things
that some teenagers do. It is quite another thing for the FLDS or other
organization to take advantage of such a loophole to systematically promote
marriage of 14-16 year olds. If they persist in this practice, the government
will end up destroying their church.
Jim GI agree it's wishful thinking that the people of Texas could
look past their hatred to defend their own freedom.Very intelligent
Sharon:Where is the corroboration? You will condemn 10,000 people
based on the word on a single person who has a HUGE motive to make up a good
reply to Ambivalent 11:50 May 14, postGreat Post !
We are lucky that this heroic girl wrote about her ordeal. Let's hope it
inspires more girls to stand up for themselves. Those who condemn her for
writing it are the same people (you know who you are, FLDS posters) who condemn
books in general or other sources of knowledge depicting life outside of their
sheltered world. Carolyn Jessop was forced by Warren Jeffs to get rid of her
vast book collection. She was the last of her ilk to go to college. It shows.
"You will condemn 10,000 people based on the word on a single person..."There are many other former FLDS who have spoken out about the immoral
and illegal practices of the FLDS and others besides Warren Jeffs who have
already been convicted of sexual abuse.If you're FLDS, your
statement is disengenuous because you already know this, and probably know of
other instances of underage arranged (forced) marriages.If you're
not FLDS, you're just ignorant of the facts because you have followed the
stories that have been circulating for years.
AmbivalentWhat moral issues? Who decided its immoral to have more
than one wife? You? What if youre doing someting that I think is immoral? Does
that give me a right to take your kids away?Jeffs trial was based on
the word of a single girl. She claimed that Jeffs coerced her into marriage and
forced her to remain in it after she wanted out. There was no corroboration.
Kobe Bryant faced a similar accusation. He said / she said does not make a good
legal case. That's why Kobe is free today. Why is Jeffs in jail? The girl was of
legal marriageable age. Its not illegal to marry your cousin. And Jeffs wasn't
charged with EITHER of those offences.You obviously don't understand
the law or morality well enough to make blanket statements about the FLDS or
anyone else. You only watch your TV, mindlessly following the drivel they feed
you, until you are so brainwashed that you add your own droning voice to the
terrible, hateful chorus.Your nickname should be Somnambulant.
So you're trying to sound educated now is that it? ... well then you might try
considering the overwhelming information crushing your defense of the FLDS. Are
you a member? ... surely you're not merely an interested apologist are you?P.S. There is a difference between being educated and a bombast using
A FLDS...I applaud you for being open. It's refreshing and you should encourage
your fellow FLDSers to do the same. First, society outside the FLDS
is very brainwashed by the media. Society receives over 2,500 media messages a
day; each carefully crafted to induce specific reactions. Believe me, I know. I
help create the messages. Society has no idea how brainwashed they are. You
admit FLDS followers are "not brainwashed anymore than you are with the media."
Well, that means there is a lot of brainwashing going on with the FLDS because
there is a lot going on with the media. Second, what are the
"circumstances" that brought the marriage together? I am curious to know what
"circumstances," whether religious or practical require a 14 year old to be
forced to marry someone. Sounds like you don't know either and were just told
"circumstances" necessitated the marriage, which you decided to accept/believe
without question (aka brainwashing).
Please look inward, take a deep breath and clear your mind. Take another deep
breath and ask yourself: "am I being balanced? am I being fair?"
T: ConfusedThe CPS often removes kids from homes based on unfounded
accusations.Whereas in an individual CPS action, a family will only
suffer a few days inconvenience before they get their kids back, in a case
involving hundreds of kids it could take a year or longer to resolve.In an individual case, there is very little motive for a CPS worker to
deliberately try to harm the parents. But with a case involving an entire group
that is generally despised it is much more likely.In an individual
case, the CPS worker would find it difficult to commit blatant violations of
rights. But a group action gives the worker a false sense of anonymity that
makes such violations much more likely.Most importantly, a large
group of families is NOT the same as a single family. This Texas case is not
without precedent. Arizona tried to use this argument and ultimately it failed
strict legal scrutiny.Based on all the above, higher courts will not
allow the Texas CPS action to stand. All children will be returned to their
families and Texas will pay a huge settlement.I hope maybe this will
reduce your confusion.
you say: "You only watch your TV, mindlessly following the drivel they feed you,
until you are so brainwashed that you add your own droning voice to the
terrible, hateful chorus."---------------------------------I listen
to audio clips of your prophet and savior and after your spirited defense and
ultimate understanding of morality and the law in terms of his conviction, I've
heard enough ... BTW, speaking of brainwashed!
The deep-seeded hatred found in some of the comments about Elisa is downright
frightening. It is equally indicative of the very real threat felt by a culture
of men trying to maintain its slipping hold on the "right" to abuse women and
children at will. This historic perogative will not be surrendered without a
vicious fight, you can be sure of it. These men are at the top of the food chain
in that world and the women who support them are just as threatened, albeit in a
different way. Those of us who have left [other] cults know all about
that, don't we? Go girls, your time is coming.
To: Re: Anonymous (??? you don't get the whole nickname business do you?)If you have any other ex-FLDS that have corroborated accustions of
illegality, feel free to trot them out. Issues of morality have NO LEGAL
standing, so please LEAVE THEM out. Nobody is interested in your version of
morality, get it?You know very well that I am not FLDS, because they
are too considerate to treat hateful people like you in the manner you deserve.
And to suggest that if I were FLDS that I would know of forced marriages is
simply more evidence of you bigotry. CAN'T YOU SEE THAT????And your
last sentence makes absolutely no sense. The stories that have been circulating
in the mainstream media for years support you're intolerant, bigoted view of the
Dennis is right!!! who decided it's immoral to force a 13 year old girl to have
sex? who decided that child abuse is wrong?? You? you only think this cuz thats
what you see on Tee Vee. who dee-cided spell check was a gud eye-dea.
'keep schweet' btw...I'm NOT FLDS
To Truly HeroicYou don't make decisions about the lives of 450
children based on a book somebody wrote, heroic or not.We are a
country base on laws, not on gossip and hearsay.If you can't
understand that, you are simply lost to reason.
Since many FLDS are posting here, may I share with the FLDS a suggestion of how
to eliminate interference and get the government off your back: Nobody,
including a state and the federal government cares if an informed adult consents
to being a polygamous wife and if this were a matter of consentuous adult
polygamy, nothing would have happened in Texas. Solution: allow children to be
educated, allow the girls and the boys to stick around until adulthood, allow
the state to screen for abuse (openess) and allow WOMEN to make free decisions
regarding getting in to a polygamous marriage, no agency would ever interfere.
Whenever there is a threat to the children, real or perceived, you're going to
get agency interference.
Do you ever wonder if this is how it was from 1830-1890 when many Mormon members
practiced Polygamy? I can imagine that many of the horrific details release by
former members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
may be similar to events that occurred during the Mormon Church's own tragic
experiment with polygamy. I see nothing holy or sacred about it polygamy. Its a
vehicle for abuse, sorrow and leads to unfortunate, tragic consequences.
It's a CULT. An entire community following the manic rants of one deranged
sexual deviant! And TEXAS, They couldn't just stay in southern Utah where the
state has been looking the other way for 50 years. Instead they go to a
southern baptist bible belt town!!! WTF! Did they really think they were going
to go un-noticed?
To: To: Dennis | 1:37 p.m. May 14, 2008 "I listen to audio clips of your
prophet and savior and after your spirited defense and ultimate understanding of
morality and the law in terms of his conviction, I've heard enough ... BTW,
speaking of brainwashed! "Who is my prophet and savior?If you can make this unfounded judgment about me, what does that say about
your judgment about the FLDS?Such a comment proves that you are
beyond the reach of reason.I now leave you alone with your hate.Bye
"What moral issues?"Raping underaged girls.Kicking young boys
out of your society.Welfare fraud.False imprisonment.Denial of
human rights.Reassigning families to new men.All are legal and
moral issues.Jeffs was lawfully convicted of accomplice rape in Utah
and is likely to be convicted of similar charges in Arizona.Other
FLDS men have also been convicted of sexual abuse charges of a similar
nature.Most decent, law-abiding people would consider forcing a
young girl into an arranged marriage to be both immoral and illegal.Unfortunately, the FLDS don't consider it immoral or illegal. Until they
either voluntarily change their practice or are forced to change this despicable
practice, they will continue to face the consequences of their illegal
practices.To say nothing of polygamy, which I didn't even mention in
my previous post.
I'm disgusted by all of the FLDS supporters using the Internet to defend their
perversion by attacking women like Elissa and Carolyn. These women are very
brave for coming forward. Yes, they'll make money off of their books. Good for
them! Soon, they'll have more power than the weak "priestholders" and "prophets"
who controlled them for too long. The men of the FLDS are scared because they
see their power slipping away.
Thank you for that refreshing glimpse into the thoughts of an ex-cult member.Hopefully this event will give many more FLDS women the courage to throw
off the shackles of this evil cult.
The way of life you covet is unraveling like a sweater. Your leader is in jail,
your men are running scared like rabbits, new exposes are published, the ACLU
won't back you, the constitution won't protect you. The public is outraged.
Good bye, good riddence.
I have a two year old daughter and I can hardly wait to marry her off at the age
of 13 to a 40 year old man so she can spend the rest of her life popping out
kids one after the other. -C'mon people there is a line that has to be drawn. It
is not about religion this is about kids being forced to be adults.
I agree, 1:23 p.m.Take me for instance, I don't claim to be smart, but
there is absolutely nothing intelligent or logical about being FLDS. The cult is
based on coveting more than one wife. Only a fool would think there was ever
some kind of revelation from God to play around with women. Nope! It never
happened. It was just something some not so dumb guy thought up to control
others, and some not so smart women. Perhaps out of desperation if anything. I hope didn't use any words here over anyones head...tee hee hee!
In response to ANONYMOUS 12:50 May 14,First of all why are you
hiding behind ANONYMOUS? Are you to embarrassed to give your name....or that
your a member of the FLDS...which I could care less.For your
information...I do not condemn 10,000 people based on the word of a single
person...I do condemn the pervs who have been brought to the attention of the
public. Eventually, nasty, dirty little secrets do come out. By means of books,
interviews, the internet and oh yes...Warren Jeffs himself. So MR./MS.
ANONYMOUS... my view points are not made on the words of a single person, but on
the words of hundreds.
"If you can't understand that, you are simply lost to reason."Dennis, defender of the indefensible. Maybe you could enlighten us as to your
definition of child sexual abuse with regards to underaged girls.Children also have rights. Since you deem yourself to be such a
legal "expert," maybe you could play devil's advocate (which in your case is
very apropos) and explain why the state has a compelling interest in protecting
a child from potential abuse and why protecting a child from abuse trumps a
parent's rights to keep the child until the state has determined that the
potential for abuse is either unfounded or has been mitigated.
This is HER Experience, I am sure there are a few "Good" experiences which
aren't shared with the public, of LOVING HUSBANDS and those who make it a
wonderful thing. You can look back on the time of the LDS Plural Marriages and
find wonderful stories as well as bad stories. I am NOT PROTECTING THE FLDS
people, but we must remember there are two sides to every story. Warren is
probably guilty being in a position of Authority, and he could have made a BIG
DIFFERENCE, and he didn't, but I am sure there are some FLDS women who would
tell wonderful stories about their marriage, wedding, wedding night, and the
whole experience. When you are married in a PERVERSE MANNER to a man who
obviously didn't follow with the best interests of "THE LORD" or how HE would
have the situation IF IT APPLIED, what else can you expect? I pitty the woman,
the man and Jeffs for totally not understanding the LORD or His Plan for Family
"It is unfortunate Elisa Wall decided to use fake names for many of the
characters in her book. She had no choice for they are all lies."It's like the pot calling the kettle black for someone who is FLDS to be
calling Elissa Wall a liar for telling the truth about the abuse that is
occurring in the FLDS community.The truth is out and the FLDS can
either acknowledge that and stop their abusive practices or they can expect to
continue paying the legal consequences of their illegal practices.
okay...so you have a computer and you've found this site....that's step one.now go to youtube.com and put 'warren jeffs' in the search space....and hit
'enter' on the keyboard......then put the little arrow thingy controlled by the
mouse over the picture of warren jeffs and click....you can watch
him for yourself confess that he hasn't been the prophet and how he is a wicked
man....in his OWN words!!!please..open your eyes...for the kids sake
And you would be mistaken. Only a small percentage of Mormons
actually practiced polygamy, there were no forced marriages, anyone who wanted
to could leave a polygamist relationship at any time, there was no state welfare
system so people supported themselves rather relying on others to support them,
and people were free to come and go from their communities without restriction.
In short, there was no coercion involved in the Mormon practice of polygamy.The way the FLDS practice polygamy today and the way the Mormons
practiced polygamy a century ago, couldn't be more different.
I was in that church and those people are so afraid they don't want you to talk
to there chilren and tell them there is a differnt life they want them to be in
the dark wake up
Hopefully more women like Elissa & Carolyn will speak up as well as stand up for
their children. The sexual abuse was bad enough, what about the children who
have physical evidence of past broken bones, poor healing, etc? There are going
to be twisted attachment issues with these children which will continue into the
next generation...esp if these children are not allowed to heal emotionally
before they become adults. How many two year olds really like "polishing
doorknobs". Maybe for two seconds, then it would be on to something else more
fun (play is how kids learn). Play is not a bad word. Breaking bones, etc is
okay for the sake of 'teaching' a child to work? Mercy!
I do believe similar things may have happened in the early Mormon church.
However, as we become more educated an enlightened we now realize that about
every church in the past did things that were perceived as right, that are now
considered horrific. ie the future head of the Anglican church killing his
wives, the Catholic church and the inquisition/crusades, the law of Moses among
the jews, the early Muslems forcing all in the middle east to convert or die.
All considered nasty stuff now, but back then it was all good in the name of
god. The Mormon church has their muddied history if you look at reliable sources
ie. assisination carried out by Orin Rockwell and John Lee, for JS and BY. Back
then, that's how you got things done if you can keep from getting caught and now
some consider things like this as proof that the church isn't true. We can't use
21st century thinking to figure out why JS was marrying teenagers. Don't jump to
conclusion about the past or else you have to figure out why guy died trying to
save the arch of the covenant.
My former roommate left with her mother when she left the FLDS faith. She spent
most of her time in college looking over her shoulder because her father told
her to either come join him of her own free will with the husband they had
chosen for her or she would be taken by force. BYU security was alerted and had
to remove him several times when he came with others to "Help" her return to the
fold. This is a cult of violence, intimidation, and child sexual
abuse. Nothing the FLDS claim will make it otherwise to those of us who have
dealt with them in the real world.
I'm Mormon, but don't full yourself regarding how plural or any marriage was in
the late 1800's. How many wives left their husbands when they wanted to in the
19th century, plural or not? I accept the church as true, but I also know the
church's past was sometimes ugly. If you don't know that, you have not done your
research. If you're idealistic about the church's past, real facts are going to
be thrown that you that you won't hear in church that will cause you to
seriously question your testimony, so base your testimony on the right
foundation or you will lose it.
To "ALL FLDS" supporter on here who seem to be MEN. Yeah, Pleasure, pleasure,
pleasure...that is all polygamy can do for a man. Give him indulging pleasures
forever and throughout all eternity. And for woman, Jealousy, anger which is
normal, lack of self confidence, bulging bellies, and stinky poopy diapers for
all eternity. GEE! what more could a woman ask for? After all we were born
without feelings..DUH! Women as well as men were born with high intelligences.
Some even being MUCH smarter than the typical polygamist deviate, self made sex
God, that these women claim to be married too... TOTALLY DISGUSTING! The FLDS
polygamist live in a made up dream world. Reality is that women would only want
"ONE" husband, and none to whom would be giving his wife a sexual transmitted
disease. You sicko men need to get a real life, instead of day dreaming about a
eternal brothel in heaven. Stupid is as stupid does.I wonder what
would have happened if Adam had of eaten the apple before Eve had done so
Hummmm??? I'm even questioning the logic in that story as well.
To "FOR FLDS EYES ONLY": Great post! Fantastic!To "2 sides to every
story": Often the truth is NOT in the middle but lies squarely on one side.
Think of cases of alcoholism, rape, pathelogical lying, NPD, BPD, etc. The other
spouse has NOTHING to work with in these cases. Yes, it takes two to make a
marriage work, but one is plenty to destroy it!I applaud this girl
for writing the book and getting as much money as possible. It will only
increase her leverage and speed in being able to help others, and that's just
smart. Her life would be much easier without the money, just disappearing into
the shadows with her little family, but she is doing what is right! I love
seeing her burden lifted somewhat monetarily as she goes through it. I'm sure
her involvement is extremely time-consuming and energy-draining.Also, my brother is reading an X-FLDS book (Escaped?)and is shocked to find
that it's exactly what happened to our sister with her NPD, abusive ex-husband
(not FLDS). It will help women and children everywhere who are psychologically
trapped discover the true nature of their situation and to get courage to get
Elissa doesn't protect family when she doesn't give names, she protects
victimizers....unless of course they are made up.As far as me liking
consistencies and how I should supposedly get accustomed to it. The problem
with the lack of consistencies from one Ex-to another leads me to believe one of
two things.1 They are liars2. FLS do not act as a united front but
as individualsWhat I also find amusing is the fact that many find
CPS to be guilty of criminal actions are perceived as "FLDS" plants. Sorry I
vehemently disagree with the entire debacle, am female, master's degreed, and
find all religions idiotic.I think that the flds should completely
renounce their religion starting with Jesus...man/god. They all of you in turn
can do the same. Then we wouldn't have this garbage. Religion the opiate of
I am going to type slowly so that some of you can follow along. Why was Warren
Jeffs charged and then had a trial as accomplice to rape BEFORE Steeds was even
charged with rape? My attorney husband had a long head scratching over that
one. He suspects that Steeds trial will not go well and that Warren's case will
be appealed as a result but having him first gives him some time in jail. Also,
Warren is "convictable" in that he is unattractive and sends out weird vibes.
As for the victim, I find it odd that she states that the women have no time
alone and are always watched yet she had an affair and got pregnant by a
Barlow...probably also her cousin.So, the FLDS lie, CPS lies, and
ex-FLDS also lie. With that in mind, treat the FLDS like other Americans as the
individuals they are not as a group...like the law was intended.Yeah, yeah, I will probably be accused of being FLDS but actually I am more
interested in our rights not being eroded on this slippery scale of in(justice.)
As I listen to the interview with Ms. Walls on Oprah I am sickened and enraged.
The RAPE of children (14 year olds are children) is permitted, tolerated, and
even encouraged by some in this state. May karma catch up with all of you.
You say: "I now leave you alone with your hate."Speaking of hate,
please review your beloved leader's audio clip on African Americans, then get
back to me.
Ok, so now you're psychic, or is it psychotic? Sorry, I never can remember
which is which. Anyway, in my humble opinion, I think that the odds of Texas
paying a huge settlement are about the same that all of you FLDSers will be
"lifted up" via the launch pad in Colorado City. Your so called prophets have
not been able to accurately predict the launching so why do you think that you
can predict the outcome of this. If I had my way, all of you would be shipped
right back to Utah, Arizona or wherever you came from ASAP. Nobody asked you to
move to Texas.
Sharon | 11:52 a.m. said...Did you ever stop to think Elisa used
fake names in her book to protect family and friends from the likes of Warren
Jeffs's cronies on the outside? Also, the people mentioned in her book, might of
asked Elisa, not to use their real name. My comment is:Did you
ever stop to think Elisa used fake names so no-one can verify her stories? If
she is really Mrs brave and bold... why does she need to protect or hide the
identities of those she claimed did such bad things? To me, it would be brave
and bold to point them out. To me it's a selective attack if she
attacks Jeffs directly but feels she needs to use fake names to protect her
friends and family (who also contributed directly to the abuse by all accounts).
Much like her selective attack when she asked that Jeffs be prosecuted for rape
but not her husband. How can she ask the state to prosecute Jeffs for being an
"Acomplice to Rape" but leave her husband (the rapist) out of it? I
suspect her book is just as selective, agenda driven and one sided.
After reading many comments, and listening to many LDS people share their
"testimonies" over almost a decade, I am convinced of at least one thing:
Perhaps testimonies are GOOD THINGS TO LOSE! Everything I have seen convinces me
that those with "testimonies" will believe anything told them by the hierarchy,
and they will suspend (what little)rationality (they have) to release their
minds and souls into boundless, obedient rapture! It is really INSANE! And that
is exactly what we are seeing in Texas with the FLDS - women and children having
been subjected not only to sexual and physical abuse, but first and foremost
having been subjected to SPIRITUAL abuse and RELIGIOUS FRAUD for years! Say all
you want about freedom and liberty, but when a person is LIED to, they are NOT
FREE! Millions of people are being LIED TO by religious leaders who continue to
embellish ancient myths and fables in order to make a buck off of people's
gullibility and desire to believe life has meaning. Religion is not only the
opiate of the masses, it is the PARASITE that sucks the blood of the masses!
I fell sorry for the people in colorado city & hildale because werren has said
that the children in texes will redeame zion what about there children are they
just worthless wake up
I don't care that you FLDS posters have multiple wives, as long as they want to
be married to you. But I DO care that you abuse children. And the fact is, you
all abuse children, AND DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!! When you tell a child that
everyone else and everything else outside the walls of your compound is evil,
every day for their whole lives, they will believe it, because they trust you.
THAT'S CHILD ABUSE. I don't necessarily like the way CPS has handled it.
I'd have been satisfied if the military Seabees had gone and knocked down your
walls and guardtower (which we know was to keep them in, not to keep us out.) I
would be satisfied if the children were let out for a few hours every afternoon
to see that there is more to life than your way.The fact is, you are
stealing the future from these kids, and giving them no options in their lives.
They are destined to be enslaved (albeit happily) behind your guardtower as you
drain any possibility of hope from their future. I wouldn't wish that on my
worst enemy, yet you find it acceptable. Go figure...
Amen, Amen and Amen. Thank you for your post. I agree with you completely.
Alleged rape?Alleged is the phrase used in that murky time between a
complaint has been made and before a court of law has made heard a case with or
without a jury and found the accused either guilty or not guilty. He
was found guilty; the charges were proven; therefore SHE WAS RAPED!
"I suspect her book is just as selective, agenda driven and one sided."I suspect the same, but that doesn't mean it isn't all true She's exposing the
truly ugly side of the FLDS belief system and the FLDS know that it is ugly, so
they're trying to do everything their PR machine can muster to try to smear and
discredit her.I truly hope her book will inspire other women to
escape from this evil, controlling, godless system.
Whatever happens in Texas, Jeffs is going to be in prison for a long time to
come. Even if the supreme court rules that anti-polygamy laws are
unconstitutional, which is not likely in the near future or with the current
court, Jeffs convictions stand on other laws that will stand longer than
those. So people should stop believing Jeffs will be freed anytime in
the near future.
There are lots of people who hate polygamy with every bone in their body.
There are other people who only bring up the issue to smear the LDS Church.
There are others who want to end the FLDS church, and others who want to see the
laws of the land enforced. In Utah it is not legal to marry someone
under age 16 without court permission. It may not be a patently criminal act,
however sex with a 14 year old is illegal no matter how much he or she wants to
engage in it. Since Jeffs knew that the marriage would involve sex, there is no
logical way to argue he was other than a participant in rape. Secondly, I doubt
most counselors would reccomend to a 14-year-old that she stay in a
"marriage". That said, I am not sure if any state has laws that
criminalize marrying your cousin and having sexual relations with him or her. I
have read that Texas has criminalized marrying someone under the age of 16 but
that is different.
May I remind those of you that might not know the diference..the LDS chruch
...and the FLDS church are NOT the same thing!!! Out of simple respect let's
not confuse them.It's time we are all informed about what has been
going on with our tax dollars. Thanks to the gals who are telling their
The entire foundation of male authority over women which includes polygamous
control and ownership of women stems from the Mormon's (LDS) lustful early
leaders. The Mormon's still practice Celetial Polygamy (marriage sealing in the
temples) where men can marry more than wife if their wife dies or by divorce.
Polygamy is ALL about suppression and control of women for lustful, "justified
by God" purposes. Doesn't any LDS or RLDS understand that GOD declared polygamy
to be an "abomination"? (2 Jacob 23-24) and that all "scriptures" added LATER to
justify polygamy was by lustful, masonic, uninspired men?
I don't miss my soap opera anymore! I have thought for weeks that the FLDS men,
who get to use the computers have been making post about this, but the one by
the FLDS, I got the distinct impression that one of the women was brought to the
computer and told to type that. It sounded like the robot zombee women we saw
on TV. I had clients that were from the Hildale group, the one father had three
disabled children between his two wives. I got to see a different side through
a sister of one wife who was not in the group, I said, it must be hard when the
wives clash, cause there was some tension with the two wives, the sisters
comments were that she wished that the husband would get some, can't use the
word here. But she wanted him to not be such a wimp. There is a pecking order
in this society, the high ups and they treat the lower class men like dirt and
of course the women are zombees. If Warren would have not gotten so stupid,
then this group would not be overturned like it is. Sad for them.
You know what gets me! All you FLDS on here hate the outside world but when you
got caught you started your sympathy tour. I hope those kids dont go back and I
hope some fanatics end your sex slave communities and ranches.
You might want to get your facts BEFORE you post. While Warren Jeffs was
convicted of accessory to rape, the actual alleged rapist (Steeds) trial has yet
to begin. OH, I was just as surprised as you to find that little nugget out.
If you also look at the court records so far, it seems that the jury is on the
fence with this case and will NOT be the slam dunk that Jeffs had. Without a
convicted rapist, it remains an alleged rape. Now ask yourself why the alleged
rapist was not charged until after Jeffs conviction. I call it backwards.
Did you know that many states allow first cousins to legally marry? Did you
know if those legally married cousins cross into a state which does not allow
for legal cousin marriages, they are committing a crime? While you
understandably point fingers at Jeffs the issues remain multi-factorial and you
need to pay closer attention. Why is it that Jeffs completed a trial to
conviction of accessory to rape yet until that conviction no charges were
brought up against the alleged rapist? You don't find that even a little odd or
even backwards? She was also underage and pregnant with another man's
(Barlow's) child yet no charges of rape were filed against him. Why not? Are there ANY states that allow for a 14 year old to marry? Is the state
complicit in child rape because of those laws(one state it's a felony another is
state sanctioned)? In those states are not girls "raped" even if they consent?
To top it off, if ANY "marriages" of 14 year old took place before the law was
changed, no crime will have been committed. I think that many here have tunnel
vision and don't clearly see the bigger issue.
Christina..4:40 May 15thThese FLDS members I dont think hate the
world, but are scared of the outside world from what they had pounded into their
heads from birth on up from so called self appointed prophets. I bet those
little kids when rescued by Texas were terrified when they came in contact with
a black person. Even though we are all God's children..red...yellow..black..and
white..Warren Jeffs instilled in children..the evils of the black race. Watch
Damned To Heaven-Black Race on youtube. I am so glad Jeffs is behind bars now
thanks to the brave young lady Elisa Wall...hopefully in time...the rest of the
perverts will be right there with him !
you say: "Why is it that Jeffs completed a trial to conviction of accessory to
rape yet until that conviction no charges were brought up against the alleged
rapist? You don't find that even a little odd or even backwards?"-------------------------While I'm not an attorney; if you are genuinely
interested in an answer based on case law (which I highly doubt) you may begin
your search with the circumstances under which the rape occurred. i.e. arranged
by Uncle Warren under various threats including eternal damnation. Even though
the actual rapist is not totally w/out guilt the extraordinary circumstances are
a key point in your careful (yeah right) examination of related case law ...
23 year old men having sex with 16 year old girls,--- Is it in
her book that Lamont Barlow was 23 when he got involved with 16 year old Elissa?
Isn't this legally at least statutory rape? Why isn't Lamont also in
Elissa Wall Is it in her book that Lamont Barlow was 23 when
he got involved with 16 year old Elissa? Isn't this legally at least
statutory r*pe? Why isn't Lamont also in jail?him
Here is another attempt to post. While I am not an attorney, my husband is and
I have been very interested in the facts over national enquirer information. I
bothered to look up the court cases and read the transcripts. Who was the
prophet when Warren "married" the individuals? Oh! Warren wasn't the head of
the FLDS? Was Warren not also following his prophet or be eternally damned?
Why did Elissa not fear eternal damnation as she committed adultery to the point
of pregnancy with the baby of a man not her own husband? I search out
information not consistent with the presented facts. The fact remains, this is
an alleged rape since no rapist has been convicted. Steeds is innocent until
proven guilty.Why was Barlow not charged with statutory rape since Elissa
remained underage at the time of their "affair?" How closely related is she to
Barlow and shouldn't they get DNA testing to prove relatedness? I think we
should pull her children until we have these facts. Not seriously but I hope
you get the point.
you say: "Why did Elissa not fear eternal damnation as she committed adultery to
the point of pregnancy with the baby of a man not her own husband?"------------Listen Mrs. unconditional commitment to the FLDS. I post
occassionally here because it's interesting. You, on the other hand, seem to say
whatever it takes to make you feel a certain way (victim, etc) and will ALWAYS
(as I see it) spin, twist and mold the facts to suit your already existing
commitment. I will simply await the outcome of the judicial process together
with curiously observing the FLDS's crusade to create another Short Creek.As a last attempt at conversing with you. The exception proves the rule.
There are ALWAYS those that for whatever reason avoid falling sway to the cult
leader. Apparently Elissa was one of them.
REPLY TO ANONYMOUS 1:42pm May 15,First of all Elisa Wall chose to be
with Lamont Barlow...he was not forced on her by Jeffs. Big difference ! Also
Elisa was not 14 when she married Lamont.To the poster who said
Elisa Wall committed adultery. How do you figure? She was not legally married to
Allen Steed. She was given to Steed in one of Jeffs bogus ceremonies.
Anyone that thinks the FLDS are raising children well are either FLDS or really
messed up (or both). Each person in the USA has a right to a life of freedom.
These FLDS men breed children in an environment created to stifle freedom and
provide no options in life. And they TRULY BELIEVE they are right to do so.
That's what makes them so dangerous.It is not my opinion. It is fact.
These women and children have no freedom and no options. If you think that's
ok, I have no pity for you, and neither will God.
It is your opinion and clearly not based on fact. If you claim that the FLDS
are cult members, so too are the men within the cult as are the women and
children. I find it terribly amusing that you find the women and children
"victims" when it is the women raising these future men and the men that are now
in leadership. It would seem clear that the men are victims of the women that
raised them.I also note that since you "know that God will have no pity on
me", I feel confident that you too belong to a cult and your judgment is the
reason I reject the notion in total.
Reject what you wish. Fact is these women and children have no hope for a
future if confined to that compound. We all know it - perhaps if you were to
REALLY think about it you would realize it too.And it's also not
opinion that your God would not want his people to be led to servitude by the
FLDS men. Thinking so would mean that your God is unjust. Is He? I hope
not.(By the way - trying to turn this around and lay the blame on
the women is certainly a new move by you all. Not sure where you're going with
that but very ingenious nonetheless.)
The women are not "raising these future men and the men that are now in
leadership" These men aka boys are being kicked out by the dozens. The few who
do manage to stay are not likely to be in the leadership positions. I think that
it is "terribly amusing" how you've twisted the original post around. I have
yet to figure out what your point is.
If women did not raise the men that have grown to leadership within the FLDS
community, as you suggest, who exactly do you think raised them?
The part that you seem to miss is that BOTH males and females within the group
are all "brainwashed" in the same belief system. Mothers are "brainwashing"
their daughters and sons as they read their morning scripture, teacher the daily
lessons, then nightly scripture. Both parents, even if in loving kindness, act
as representatives to their faith. The reason I brought women as blame, is
because all seemed to miss the reality instead lumping all women as victims and
all men as criminal. Mothers as primary caretakers have great power even if you
do not respect that.
BIG DEAL!!! SO IT'S A CULT!! Adults have the right to join a cult if they want
to. Someone said in another post "don't Americans have the right to follow an
idiot if they want to"? If there are underage marriages, abandoning of boys,
fraud, whatever arrest them and send to jail or whatever. But if they want to
wear stupid dresses, long sleeves in the summer, pile their hair up 5 feet, etc.
etc. etc. Live behind walls and fences LET THEM! You have the freedom to live
like a idiot if you want to IF you are not breaking any other laws. You don't
like what they are teaching their kids GET OVER IT until you decide to remove
kids from KKK members, Skinheads, Nation of Islam, Pagans, and any other groups
you don't agree with.
who are you going to call,????? one of you girl at your school get rapeare you going to take all the kids in the schooland put them in foster
home because thy are in dangerof been rape.
a minister of a church take avange of a kid,is all the kids in that church
taking to foster care because they in in danger, the minister is teaching all
the kids it ok to be taking avange of, wake up and smell the rose,
What a courageous woman! To have grown up in that world, knowing nothing else,
and to still have the self-esteem and bravery to help herself out of an horrific
Are you kidding me. To say "The result of Mrs. Wall's book pre-release
publicity Hoax in Texas resulted in the "Stolen Innocence" of over 400 children"
is ludicrous. The person that stole their innocence is the one who gave birth
to them. What can be said of a mother who willingly gives her child to a
pedophile? Shame on all of you I applaud her courage.
I am reading elisa's book and a lot of it I feel for her and have experience a
horrifing life growing up in the LDS myself. what's sad is these women who in
the FLDS subject themselves to these elders of thier church. warren jeffs has
destroyed many and what their purpose in life could have been and is fully
responcable for that. these women are missing out on opportunties they may never
know exsist because of this lifestyle and their value and self worth as women.
this life style has destroyed trust in anyone or anything outside their own
world to not even trust doctors to help them with illness. it was very fortunate
that elissa didn't get TB or any other serious disease that could have resulted
in death.what I do find strange is that the parents that had their
children taken away from them in texas had no problem trusting the non FLDS
lawyers to help them get their children back.i find that in my own
experiance with mormonism and any of it's branches of other LDS beleifs that is
is a path of distruction and no direction.
Elissa isn't out to hurt anyone. She never claimed that her marriage was
representative of all FLDS relationships--on the contrary, she makes it clear
that her birth mother was from a happy polygamous home. But stories like hers do
form, and she is trying to help prevent other young girls from being sexually
abused. I would also like to address the question as to why Jeffs
has been convicted while Steed's trial is still pending. Jeffs was already under
scrutiny by state law enforcement. He controlled the lives of n entire society.
Steed's has little to no power--who should be the first priority, the
colonel?I am not anti-religion, I'm not trying to attack any church,
and I'm not necessarily opposed to polygamy itself. The only issue here should
be the well-being of innocent children, and Elissa Wall has done a tremendous
thing by sharing her story and seeking justice.
all of those negatives comments you people left are extremely stupid and
ignorant i just finished reading this book and the poor girl suffered more than
any of you could imagine! I am glad she spoke out! Hope that all of the current
members of the FLDS open there eyes and see how brain washed they truly are!
Elisa Wall...YOU ARE BRAVE. The abuse you endured and how you held yourself
together and got through with your life as a young girl... and got to where you
are now... is beyond words. There is no amount of applaud that would be enough
to give you for your tremendous flight of COURAGE.GOD is loving and not
complicated. HE IS NOT HURTFUL. It was never mentioned to beat children because
it shows love/discipline. GOD never mentioned marry your relatives and produce
children. THE TRUTH HAS BEEN SPOKEN & written. One radical like Jeffs or
whoever is out there now, CAN'T take the truth, twist it and mold it to their
liking. Husbands are not to dominate their wives. Together husband & wife
should live in harmony. This is a radical & tainted way of thinking. It's a
shame this is still happening. Even when many people smartly come forward,
there are so many that leave themselves behind to continue in the vicious cycle.
The worldly people aren't evil. WHY IS THIS VICIOUS SECT HIDING? BECAUSE THE
EVIL IS IN YOU. IT'S UNACCEPTABLE. GOD WOULD FROWN. GOD LOVES YOU. REPENT.
I commend her for her strong sense of self and the ability to share such her
tragic childhood with the world. If the person who's title was "Stolen
Innocence" read her book they would see that part of the money from the book
sells will go to a fund to help future FLDS women and children who want to
leave. I think it was a very brave thing for her to do to protect her new
family. Way to Go!!!
I don't beleive that any 14 year old is mature enough to be married period..
Bottom line it is still rape if you say no. No means no. Flds or not it's
This is silly to see people get so excited about a book. I have read Ms.Wall's
book and find it kind of disturbing.It seems like in the book that she was happy
before she left her biological dad and after she met her new hubby. What about
all of the years between those episodes?There had to be some happy times, even
with her ex hubby.As for Mr. Jeffs, i don't know anything about phrofets or what
they do. Everyone here is wondering whom to blame. Who is to blame for this
girls life being ruined in her teen years? I think i have read that at least 5
people are to blame.How can folks live by the countries laws when they are
taught to live by religion laws. There has to be a line some where in between
the both. I believe that god will be the judge. We all usually prey to the same
god, just in different ways.Good stories are not always right or wrong. But,
FLDS followers are people too. We all breathe the same air and need to eat in
order to live. So know what?
I am so happy that Elisa was able to escape. It was an excellent book and I
must say I am proud of her for having the courage to escape the hell she was
Just finished the book and I've got to say...the most contradictory things I've
learned recently about the FLDS is the differences there seems to be between the
sects in Canada vs the U.S. I live close to Bountiful and get the feeling that
there is a lot of hypocritical behavior between the two.It sounds like
aspects of this way of life were ideal in theory but too much of a good thing
breeds people like Warren Jeffs who has obviously ruined what appeared to be a
chosen way of life for a lot of people. Hippie communes were a great concept
too but it only took a few to ruin it for the rest. I have the upmost respect
for Elisa for escaping and having the guts to bring charges for what was done to
her. Ultimately, laws were broken and children were hurt. FLDS or not...Jeffs
is a disturbed, power hungry pedophile who is right where he belongs.
I think Elissa Wall did the right thing. Escaping Warren jeffs was not an easy
thing to do for most of them especially when he had them tracked down and
brought back. What is that man thinking? A lot of the FLDS peolple could've run
but that man had them so brainwashed they didn't want to.
I bought the book and read it I am happy for her with everything she was made to
do at 14 years old was wrong and this book was what happen to her and her
family. Who care if she make money off it. You have to read the book to
understand what happen to her I cry I laugh and I was glad she took a stand.I hope this well help a young girl to stand up for herself. I am glad Warren
Jeff got what was coming to him he is not a man of God he nothing.