I love your work with FAIR, Scott Gordon! Keep it up!
It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul
Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Although the slime will never seem
to come from the Obama campaign, or the Democrat party, there is no mystery as
to the motivation or beneficiary of these scurrilous attacks.This is
going to get worse, much worse, before the election.Just think of
the media outrage that would be taking place if any of the slurs against Mormons
were targeted instead at Muslims, or people of certain racial or ethnic
backgrounds, or sexual persuasion.All this should resolve decent
people to fight even harder to defeat the Democrats at every level, even the
cuddly loveable Utah Democrats who refuse to call out their national colleagues
on their behavior.
Just FYI, I did just read a pretty good article about us on USAToday.com and
beside a few small things, I thought it was pretty accurate. Take a look...
Obama has had to deal with people attacking him somehow simultaneously as1. being a member of Rev. Wright's church2. being a muslim3. being
an atheistwho somehow gets attacked when he doesn't go to church and
when he does go to church. The last person who wants to get in a
religious-bashing argument with Romney is Obama who I'm sure is sick of that
kind of garbage being thrown at him. Obama could probably sympathize with Romney
more than most politicians. Biden (a Catholic, another rather unrepresented
group at the top, though Gingrich and Santorum are both Catholic) has already
said that it was outrageous for anyone to suggest that Romney shouldn't be
President because of his religion.
The intelligence of those labeling the LDS faith as a cult is always in
question. Spreading lies is the only way they can get the attention they need
and the only way a candidate like Obama can have a prayer to win in this
If that anti-mormon slime machine gets Ron Paul elected, you will have one proud
Given the history of right-wing extremists how anyone could be surprised? I'll
never understand why Mormons embrace the Republican Party the way they do. The
national Republican Party throws Utah a few bones and until it really matters,
as it does with Romney, and then the extremist element of the Republican Party
start the hate campaign. The liberal Democratic Party is far more accepting and
embracing of religious and philosophical differences that the Republicans will
I doubt this will really be much of an issue since Mitt will most likely lose in
Florida anyway and then bow out shortly thereafter. I am thinking Romney is back
with his family by the end of February and Gingrich is the nominee. The anti-
mormon trash is mostly coming from the so-called Christian right which also
happens to be a lot of Tea Party people. Mitt really had no chance at the
nomination from the jump. The hypocritical thing here is that the far right
conservatives want a purist Reagan conservative and what they are getting in
Gingrich is a man who cheated - TWICE - on his wife and was forced out of
congress. Also we recall the wonderful photo - op of Gingrich setting with Nancy
Pelosi and chatting warmly about global warming. Gingrich is a showman and he
plays - very nicely - to the audience that he is speaking to. Same with Obama. I
guess these guys are meant to run against each other. Romney is the only one
that can fix our sunken economy but he is not a showman and ... he is mormon
(complete with horns).
I don't know why people are so opposed to a book that shows us that Jesus Christ
is the God of this whole earth, not just the children of Israel in the middle
east area. The Book of Mormon shows us that the Lord can have prophets anywhere
He chooses and that He can have them teach His same gospel and even write it
down for future generations. How can we be so arrogant as to think that we can
tell the Lord what He can do, and who He can do it with. If the Lord wants
prophets teaching people in America or any other part of the world, who are we
to tell Him that He can't do that? I for one am so grateful to have
more of God's words. I love the Bible and read it and try to live by the
principles taught in it. I also love the Book of Mormon which teaches the same
truths because it is by the same author: Prophets of Jesus Christ.
The church may not be racist now, but it used to be. If you have ever read the
journal of discourses with talks by Brigham Young and others you would agree. I
will not put those quotes here because I think they are rude, but if you want to
check them out I encourage you to do so.
Atl, in addition to Obama attending Rev Wright's church, which is factual, he
also left his long time church/religion due to the caustic content of it's
doctrine which was quickly swept under the democrat's rug.Wouldn't they
call that flip flopping of the highest (or lowest) level?So as we
take heat for "being" LDS, I'm amazed how comfortably Obama crawled
out from under a hate filled church and abandoned his religion.Can
you imagine the cries of flip flopping and religion bashing that would go on if
people actually had anything of substance against Mitt?
'"Mitt Romney's religious faith is likely to be mocked, sensationalized,
disparaged and dragged through the media gutters" in the event of an
election race between Romney and President Barack Obama.' - article
And yet: **'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd,
Deseret News - 07/17/11 **'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney,
Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11 **Cult of
Mormon comment leads Newt Gingrichs Iowa political director, Craig Bergman, to
resign - By Tad Walch Deseret News 12/14/11 **Rick
Santorum-backing pastor plays the Mormon cult card By Joseph Walker Deseret
News 01/20/2012 FYI, these... are NOT Obama! The Deseret News needs to stop perpetuating this complete falsehood: **'President Obama's purported 'weird'-Mormon strategy against Mitt Romney
will backfire, pundits say' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 08/10/11
As, it's 2012. WHAT, has Obama said about Mitt Romney's, faith?? Zero. That is all... empty Republican rhetoric.
JoCo Ute | 12:25 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012 Actually, Utah was predominently
Democrat just a couple generations ago. However, when I (a LDS) have to
choose between the party that supports my moral and constitutional views (at
least on paper) but doesn't like my religion, or the party that will accept my
religious views but works against my moral and constitutional views, I'll take
the first one every time. I have thick enough skin to put up with them not
Joseph Walker's article is informative and reflects expectations of many LDS as
one of our own is in the national spotlight. Frightening thing is that so many
vote without really understanding, or taking the time to understand, the
candidates and their positions. These soundbites such as that mormons are
racist fly, even in the face of all the conversions of African-Americans, and
the actual practice of treating all races with respect and equal-opportunity.
Book of Mormon expressed belief that only unrepentant sin creates inequality
among God's children should be looked at. Those who won't vote for a Mormon do
not know or understand them.
DN Subscriber said, "It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community
organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Although
the slime will never seem to come from the Obama campaign, or the Democrat
party, there is no mystery as to the motivation or beneficiary of these
scurrilous attacks."In case you hadn't noticed, all of these
comments are coming from right wing Christian Pastors who are working for other
Republican candidates and want to scare the Republicans supporting Romney into
thinking he has no chance to beat President Obama. Your begging the question by
insinuating these comments come from the Democrats is no different than the
small minded pastors who should know better than to make the claims they are
making. Your claims are just as false.
@JoCo UteYeah, the only problem with the democratic party is its
socialistic agenda...why would anybody want that for your country?
This is why it will be hard for Mitt to gain any southern support... "...for the millions who attend Southern Baptist churches, this is hardly
a new discussion. For nearly the past 40 years, the Southern Baptist Convention
has devoted considerable effort to teaching its members about the dangers of
Mormonism. In fact, probably no other organization in the nation has played a
bigger role in perpetuating the idea that Mormonism is a cult than the Southern
Baptist Convention.They developed programs, trained pastors, hosted
Mormonism-awareness conferences, and published articles to help spread the
message to Southern Baptists that Mormonism was a dangerous cult religion they
had to avoid. The SBC's Sunday School Board developed an instruction kit,
"The Christian Confronting the Cults,..."I can't post the
whole thing, but it's a good article. I was a missionary in the South and it
was both a positive and eye opening experience.
I don't know whether Mitt can win the Presidency. If he does... great. One
thing I do know is that the LDS Church is far better known now that it was
before he ran, and that win or lose for Mitt, his candidacy has increased the
Church's stature in the World and the USA.The stereotypical
comments, beliefs and slurs that some love to hurl against the LDS Church are so
ridiculous, that anyone who knows many members can see them for what they are.
The stereotypes will continue to be broken down until the time when
a Mormon could be President. Are we there yet? That is the question. We all have opinions, but none of us know.
If one compared every example in the Book of Mormon of someone contending with
the Church- such as Zeezrom's attempt to discredit Amulek and destroy anything
good for the sake of personal gain- if one compared every similar instance in
the Book of Mormon to the continual barrage of attempts made today, it would
stand only to testify of the truthfulness of this gospel.
Just a minor correction: it should be Rodney Howard-Browne, not Howard
Rodney-Browne. The guy happens to have his own vocal critics within the
Christian community, but that's probably irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
I miss Michael Ash.
Hopefully most people can see the conflict of interest with those preachers who
attempt to dismiss The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by calling
them a non-christian cult. Of course these preacher are going to attempt to
defame The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in order to protect their
priestcraft, their livelihood . . . it is how they make a livingâby
preaching the precepts of men as true Christian doctrine. Some of their beliefs
are correct. Some are not. If current Christianity is defined by the
adherence to the almost 2000 years' worth of man's ever-changing philosophies
and interpretations of what Jesus Christ taught, then of course there will be
many differences. This difference is the very reason why The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints was established, by a Prophet called and authorized
of God The Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Are these guys for real. Its like someone took a time machine to the 19th
century, pulled them from there incredibly bigoted time period, and brought them
to ours. I find it unconscionable that any prominent pastor of any faith
wouldn't take the time to really study our history and beliefs. For goodness
sake, introduce these guys to the Church's main website and the Church News web
site so they can see the fruit of our people. Love, Service, faith in Christ.
That is all they will find.
WHOA, DN Subscriber, how do you make the leap from "scurrilous
attacks" to Democrats? The "scurrilous attacks" emanate from
angry Republicans who oppose Mitt Romney, of this I have no doubt.
See the problem with all of you on here, for the large part, who have supported
Mr. Romeny is you seem to think this is a campaign about Mormons and their
greater acceptance into society. If I've misinterpreted that, please go back
and re-read your comments. Hopefully, you'll be able to understand how I, a
member of the LDS Church for over 20 years, could misunderstand your words. If
that is true, then Mr. Romeny is certain to fail. If his supporters are so
confused so as to think this is a campaign about religious tolerance over
presidential succession, then Mr. Romney hasn't got a prayer at winning the
election and would have an even tougher battle to win the nomination than he
already does. For goodness sake, either get in line with his policies or back
someone else. Enough of the Book of Mormon comparisons and honking the horn of
Mormon societal acceptance. I promise you, that is NOT why he is running! And DN Subscriber, Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich are in the Republican
party. Any of their supporters are advocating for President Obama's defeat.
Apparently that tidbit escaped your mind today...and every other day.
The anti-Mormon slime machine has already kicked into geat, big time. And, of
course, it's led by the same party that we love to keep in power. Go figure.
@ADN"I don't know why people are so opposed to a book that shows us
that Jesus Christ is the God of this whole earth, not just the children of
Israel in the middle east area."I think their issue is with the
claim that it's scripture. "If the Lord wants prophets teaching
people in America or any other part of the world, who are we to tell Him that He
can't do that? "The Lord can do a lot of things... but just
because he can... doesn't mean he did. So nobody is saying he can't do that...
just that he didn't do that.@EPJ"preaching the precepts
of men as true Christian doctrine. ""If current Christianity is
defined by the adherence to the almost 2000 years' worth of man's ever-changing
philosophies and interpretations of what Jesus Christ taught, then of course
there will be many differences."In essence you just said that
other Christian denominations are corrupt. See, this is why it never ends. Each
denomination, including the LDS church, and I can tell that because I feel like
I'm the only one ever calling out these sorts of comments here, is attacking
A few days ago, about 25% of South Carolina Republicans admitted that they voted
against Mitt Romney because of his faith. Now, we have comments coming from (or
approved by) Republican candidates. Yesterday, the Republican Party
called me and asked for a donation. I refused, because the party discriminates
against me for my religious beliefs. They want my money, but they don't want
me. Unless the Republican Party repudiates the bigotry of its own delegates and
elected officials, I will look to other political parties for my support.
"Mormonism, if you study the whole history of it, and I'm not trying to
create a problem, but they had death squads that would go around and kill
everybody that wasn't a Mormon,"---This guy is mistaken....he
forgets to mention the "extermination order" by Governer Boggs in
Missouri to exterminate everyone who was a Mormon. If they tried to do this in
todays time it would be the beginning of Armageddon and it will come soon
Wow the moderators won't even let a simple factual statement get through? I
don't see that this comment violates any of your criteria for posting a
comment.The church may not be racist now, some statements in the
past say otherwise. If you have ever read the journal of discourses with talks
by Brigham Young and others you may agree with me. I will not put those quotes
here because I think they are rude, but if you want to check them out I
encourage you to do so.
With the separation of church and state, shouldn't it be that church's that have
their leaders endorse or slander political candidates lose their status as a non
profit, non political religious entity?
The conflict within Mormons is that they contain so much of what they express
detestation for in non-Mormons. They wish to be recognized for what they say
they are; not for what they are. That makes for difficult relations.
who cares? by their fruits ye shall know them. repubs are guilty of this slime
as much as libs and dems. paganeete is right and I am marking this down as a
In a number of past posts I layed out through numeric fact that the Republican
Party cannot win this election without the Mormon vote. Their are states not
traditionally seen as Mormon states that would go to Obama if the Mormons didn't
vote! For example, Indiana, Missouri and North Carolina. The margin of victory
by the Republicans was so small that just removing the Mormon vote guarantees
defeat. Respective electorial votes 11,10 and 15. That is 36 electroral votes.
Now take out Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada and New Mexico and the
Republicans have ZERO chance. Just a reminder: Mitt Romney received 385,000
votes in the Arizona primary-2008. 38% of the party vote in McCain's state.
People waited 4 hours to vote! In California Mitt Romney was done and received
1.2 million votes. He has a chance in California, but no other Republican can
take this state. I am a Republican, but I will not vote for any man(Gingrich or
Santorum) who fails to support religious toleration for all people! Including
Mormons! Gingrich and Santorum scream about the Constitution, but only when it
benefits their GREED! They are modern day bigots supported by such!
If the Mormon Church really is a cult, there is no harm in any ridicule. If
Joseph Smith was not a liar, at some point in the future, it will be interesting
to see how many evangelical pastors that will be running for cover and
apologizing as quickly as their mouths can move.Time will tell who
is right and who is toast.
In response to the inaccurate accusations being launched at the church and it's
members, I echo what Elder David S Baxter recently declared to the students of
the Orem Institute: "Let them do their worst. We will continue to do our
best." In spite of opposition, however fierce, we can continue to champion
love, communication, civility, and respect. Let them do their worst. We will
continue to do our best.
In reference to the Communist scare of the 1950's, I once heard someone say,
"The best weapon the Soviet Union has is Joe McCarthy."I'm
not comparing the Soviet Union to the LDS Church, but if certain groups or
writers insist on whipping up people into frenzy regarding the LDS Church and
its doctrine; sensationalizing, distorting and down right lying about the
church, those that will most benefit in the end will be the LDS Church.The "slime machine" has been at work since 1830 and from 1830 to
today, the LDS Church has grown from eight to 13-million members. "No unhallowed hand can stop this work from progressing." - Joesph
"Gordon said, "there is only one actual mention of blacks in the Book
of Mormon:""it doesn't really have anything to do with blacks or
Africans in any time period, let alone today."By his response,
one would think that the issue of skin color was never even mentioned in the LDS
church. Nice deflection.
I'll take the road that the Republicans on this site took in a very eerily
similar situation in 2008.When the issue of race was brought up in
regards to Barrack Obama, not to mention the use of his middle name for nothing
other than a scare tactic, it was you folk who brushed these notions off. Had
nothing to do with race.Just like this has nothing to do with
religion. Can't have it both ways.There are plenty of
other reasons that Obama will attack Romney, plenty, trust me.
The Republicans are the ones with the anti-Mormon slime machine. Watch it work
wonders for Gingrich and Santorum. But of course (wink, wink) it is Obama's
The most depressing aspect is that people who deal in this siliceous material
are eligible to vote. Plato worried about this and 2500 years later it hasn't
Nothing like false doctrine to scare people...Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the
Book of Mormon will you find the word Negro or black skin. Yep nothing like a
bit of false doctrine to scare people.
My husband served a mission in the south. He told me that many
churches have their once yearly meeting to warn their members against Mormons.
He rightly pointed out that I would probably be biased against Mormons too if I
had a yearly Sunday School lesson planted right in my manual that relied on
obscure facts and details that made Mormons sound crazy and strange. Those who
are biased are hardly bad people, just misinformed by those who hold influence
in their lives. We don't need to feel outraged.Having both Mitt
Romney and Jon Huntsman running gave not only one face but two faces to what a
Mormon looks like. The more exposure we can get the better I say. All the mud
slinging in the world can't be worse from what people are already believing and
teaching in private.My brother just graduated from Harvard Med
school last year. There was a highly educated medical resident there who
believed that because he was Mormon he was a polygamist and was wary of him for
months before she finally confronted him on the issue. He was shocked and
dismayed, but glad to explain.Let us be patient as the Lord rolls
forth His work and more and more walls are broken down. I am pleased to be a
part of this great generation and see His great work spread on every continent
in His way and in His own time.
OK, everyone tonight at midnight, go outside and look at the sky, then write
what you see. Guess what, we are all going to see it differently, and some may
not see the stars cause there are tons of clouds. I think that we sometimes
don't see the stars because of the clouds that are covering the sky. So people
will see what they want to see in Mormon's and they will not see who they really
are, because of the clouds that are blocking their view. As for race, which is
a view that many still want to have their view blocked, I moved away from Utah
and attend a ward that has quite a few blacks in the ward. They are great
people and I love them for them, not for the color of their skin. But I will
tell you who I can't stand, is white people who constantly use the racist card.
I think that when someone accuses a person or a group of being racist, the
accuser is the actual true racist. Cause most people are not even thinking
Let me be clear. I take issue with religion. When people use
theology to affect my FACTUAL life, I want evidencet. Not more theology. And I think that ALL religions, whatever flavor, are not based on
evidence, rationale, or facts. As such, I think ALL religions are 'cults.' It is not specific to Mormonism. That said: I
think Huntsman was the best GOP canidate. I might vote for him in 2016 and I
think he would be a BETTER VP than Biden. My experiences in Utah
have shown me that there, like the bad, GOOD Americans who just HAPPEN... to be Mormon. People of EXCELLENT character, who I would
want by my side in bad situations. And if anyone has reffered to the
LDS faith as a 'cult' (I think they are a Christian-based faith)...
It is the supporters of Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum.
Obama has said NOTHING about Mitt Romney's faith, to date. Zero.
It was Southern Baptist preachers who started the KKK and encouraged their
members to join.It was the Catholic Church who persecuted and killed
Jews during the Inquisition and then killed millions of Native Americans with
the Conquistas.So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not
allowing those with African ancestry to hold the priesthood? It
seems pretty benign compared to what the religion of the other GOP candidates
ClarkHippo - I don't think playing the numbers game and quoting that because
there are 13 million members there must be some divine influence. So what, there
are 15 million methodists, 500 million catholics, and over a billion muslims. So
does that mean they are better just because of sheer numbers? All of them
sprouted from 1 person with a claim. Every single one of them.
The LDS Church preaches that it has the truth,and we actively preach in all
communities, so therefore, it is expected we should be attacked. And so it has
been since its inception, nothing new there. And we shouldn't expect anything
less from misinformed preachers who's livings depend on their religious base.
I am more and more convinced that the Republican ideals have changed
over the years, and that they talk from both sides of their mouths. Being
somewhat moderate myself, I see that as potentially a good thing, but it is all
show and tell during the primaries. Personally, I don't understand how the
evangelicals can endorse Gingrich with all his baggage and his smug attitude,
and yet go after Romney for his clean living ideals and example. I wouldn't put
it past Gingrich to have converted to Catholicism because he knew he wanted to
run for the Presidency. It's all hypocrisy at its finest. If
Gingrich is nominated for the Republican party, I for one will waste my vote. I
don't think I could take 4 years of Gingrich.
'So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not allowing those with African
ancestry to hold the priesthood?' - Poqui | 3:24 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012
2 reasons: 1) This happened until 1978. Not some distant past. 2) Because if you are supposed to have integrity... you do
not rely on the actions of OTHERS, as 'justification' for discrimination that
YOU, support. Your actions will then ALWAYS be decided...by the
actions of others. REGARDLESS, of the flavor. Mormon,
Prodestant or Mulsim. Having ingetrigty means that you are
responsible for YOURSELF. Regardless of what 'the other guy'
does. And, as we hopefully ALL agree that discrimination is
WRONG... justying it to OTHERS... is exactly the same
reason why Mormons have felt the sting of persecution, themselves.
Missouri executive order 44, October 27, 1838.
%poqui, You state: So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not allowing
those with African ancestry to hold the priesthood? It seems pretty
benign compared to what the religion of the other GOP candidates did. Perhaps if you were black you would see things differently.
I am not a Mormon and I am confused.If, as the article says, there
is no basis for a "curse" on African Americans in the Book of Mormon,
what was the basis for not letting Blacks participate fully in the LDS church
Obama has said absolutely nothing about the Mormon religion. Now, have any
active LDS members repeated stories and made claims after Obama won the
Presidency? Did you say things that you did not know were true, but you still
repeated the stories? You remember dont you? Obamas a Muslim, Obamas a Marxist,
Obamas a socialist, Obama is going to get your guns, Obama is not an American
citizen, Obama is going to force everybody to make him king, Etc. The President
doesn't care if Romney is LDS. Some of you might ask yourself if talking trash
about our good President, who has tried, even in the face of his obstructionist
cohorts in the White House, to help the middle class and the poor regain what
they lost under the republican leadership of Bush. The wealthy don't need help.
They have the Grover Norquist/Koch teams to lobby the republicans, the rest of
us need Obama.
I find it amazing that a conservative writer would try to drag the Obama
campaign into the behavior and tactics of the current Super-Pacs involved in the
GOP Primaries. Then again maybe the purpose was to incite anger over something
that has not happened yet....
Well said Cora, well said!
I have never known a time when arguing religion has ever benefited anyone; at
least not in the long run.I am LDS and for every positive thing I
might bring up about my faith, someone will counter it with something negative
--- much like a battle between the Hatfields and the McCoys.Whether
it be right wing conservative, Democratic leftist, or some ultra secretive
terrorist organization, ridiculing anyone's personal beliefs is never
Big Red,Don't waste your vote. If Newt gets the nomination, hold your nose
and pull the lever. We CANNOT afford (in more than one way) four more years of
Obama. I will do the same if it comes down to that.Pagan,ANYONE would be a better VP than Joe Biden. What a goofball.I
liked Newt two-three months ago, but he has gotten mean, and it's a turn-off. I
wish Cain had stayed in the race.
"...It is difficult to imagine that running against President Obama will
draw out any more anti-Mormon rhetoric than the current Republican campaign has
@nick"Saved by cheap grace and born againism has been Satan most
effective tool in America. "Well that's fantastic, an article
about slime thrown at Mormons and your response is to throw slime at
evangelicals. I hope you don't mind when the LDS church is called a cult, lest
you be a hypocrite.
Boy of boy, all these comments I read certainly open your eyes and thoughts. I
am a very grateful, active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints. From what I read there are many who are just confused about the truth of
the Book of Mormon and we as God's children become negative and apprehensive
when we don't know or understand something. I believe this is the case with all
of the colorful comments about the Mormon Church. I would suggest that instead
of making unwarranted and negative comments that you get down on your knees and
pray to your Heavenly Father, read the Book of Mormon and then you too, will
know what is the Truth. There will be no doubt in your mind and you feel a peace
in your heart. I did and I do.
I have never been an Obama fan, but under the circumstance we are in with
everyone running I think we may be better off for another 4 years. Mitt just
doesn't understand the average person at all.
I think the good pastor was actually thinking of the Pearl of Great Price (Moses
7:22). Most modern LDS would bristle at the thought of this being used to prove
the Church is racist; but then this passage may have been read differently 40
years ago. LDS practices from many years ago may well come back to haunt
prominent members in the 20th Century. But then we have never burned people at
the stake for heresy. Catholics rarely get stuck with that responsibility these
days. It was the product of a different time.
Makes me even more solid in my foundation.
What's more scary is that Mormons won't own up to, or worse, don't even read
their own history from source documents like Church History, Journal of
Discourses, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, etc.Let's
take our own Pew Poll here, my pew. I'm 7th generation and I know my history.
Who organized and when were the Danites first dispatched? Who and how many
participated in the massacre at Enterprise, UT? Where were more victims
murdered- Haun's Mill or Mountain Meadows? What were the lovely words of
Brigham and his council, from the pulpit, on the "curse of the negro
man"? Who said that all Christian denominations were an abomination and
that all their creeds and teachers were false? Who allowed one man of the 50 to
meet the firing squad in 1877, after allowing him to dine with him for over 20
years?My ancestors died in the Willey Handcart Co., forged across
the plains, eked out a living as potato farmers, and sacrificed everything they
had for this church. They would be appalled at the total lack of honesty in
claiming the truth of the prophets they followed.I could go on, but
it is pointless.
Sometimes you have to put your own windmills at which to tilt.
Well thanks, FAIR apologist. I just spit my coffee all over the table. Your
twisting and redefining of the word "black" is truly a pretzel
adventure of contortionist proportions. Wish I would have had your eloquent
gifts when I was growing up LDS. Then I could have explained to my friends how
I wasn't racist or bigoted, my church just had different definitions of what
black really meant.I could have foregone all those squints and
guffaws when I tried to explain that my great-grandaddies went to prison for
being polygamists but that now we didn't believe it, but that we believed we
would be living it in heaven, which was filled with polygamists. I could have
just passed on the Mother in Heaven thing and the Celestial Kingdom requirements
we learned in seminary.But I shared and defended it, no matter how
irrational and unbiblical the new revelations were. Yes, we can become gods,
why is that strange?Biblical Christians are appalled at Mormon
doctrines because they completely deny the veracity of the Bible as God's
infallible Word, they deny His character and essence as given in His text. They
rewrote and redefined historic Christianity.Stop bloviating.
Two Cents: It is a matter of Principle to not vote for someone like Newt
Gingrich who endorses and wraps within his campaign anti-mormon supporters. He
embraces this divisivness because it supports his desire and greed to become
President. He is a known lier and cheat. Why would one of us assume he could not
stoop even lower? His pride owns him. I will not vote for the better
of two if both espouse intent of low moral character.
The attacks will come from the left----count on it, Frank Rich is a huge
Democratic figure and he thinks LDS are monsters---you can google his comments
he made in 2008. Pres. Obama respects all religions, (and owes a lot to Harry
Reid for keeping the senate in 2010) but many in his party, most in his party
is anti-religion----and that is media, universities, scientists, and the
From the quote in article, "..that the church is doctored up and painted
nicely.." The media and Hollywood have ignored religions (and especially
the LDS church) for 50 years now and yet the Brethren have never sought to be
popular with them, and now that the Church is all over the news, the media
elites are embarrassed that they have ignored the truth for so long and while
this was all happening, the Church was winning (and has been winning since 1830)
and keeping very humble and subtle and quiet about how the truth will eventually
prevail. All churches a hundred years ago lacked diverse leadership, but the
difference is one church changed in one day while the others changed over time.
I don't think Mr. Obama would ever bring up the 1978 revelation, but so many
in his party haven't forgotten it.
Is it wrong to be Anti-Mormon? Is it wrong to be anti anything?
The right's slime machine is much worse than the left's.
I wonder if evangelicals are really Christian.
Brahma I would just like to point out that every church that was controlled by
white people had to deal with racism. Even Lincoln the great emancipator was
racist. God can only work with those he has at his disposal. At the time they
were ignorant of the truth slowly God educated them. Remember we teach line upon
line precept upon precept as mankind is able to bear the truths revealed.Although to refute that in the JoD Brigham has also stated that blacks
are to be treated equally along with other leading brethren at the time.
I'm amazed how this article starts with Obama criticizing Romney for his Mormon
faith and then it tells of all the Republicans who are already doing it. I just
have to ask why Obama would even care, it's evangelicals that think Mormons are
a cult and constantly attack and write the anti-mormon tracks. Also if you look
at history, it was the democrats that supported Utah Statehood, not the
Republicans. I think there is plenty in Romney's platform to argue against, his
faith is not one of the things that are important to democrats. As an active LDS
member and a democrat, that's the way I see it.
Interesting comments in this article by men-of-the-cloth. And yet, they are
unaware of why this country was established with the phrase of "freedom of
religion" and why it is a bad thing to have religion controlling a country.
It is also apparent that they are unaware of the establishment clause in the
constitution.but, I am wondering, since they are so anti-mormon, if
a person was a hindu, sikh, jew, etc; would they also be so anti-conformity? I
suspect they would be.
I love it when some members purposely mislead and say things that are half
true.President Brigham Young said some things that has many today
gasping at what was said. There were some other early leaders that said
somethings along the same line. So what. When HUCKLEBERRY FINN came out it was
and is still a classic. So is UNCLE TOM'S CABIN, but today these books are
banned in many schools as being discreminatory. They were written in a time
much different than today. The same is said of these early leaders. I
recognize the fault of these men and yet I have read these books and find them
quite entertaining and without any gall. The same I find from early leaders of
the Church.I don't fully understand why blacks were not allowed the
priesthood and honestly it has no affect at all on me or who I am. To hold
these men to today's standards is totally and completely wrong and misleading.
It just makes them men, not perfect by any nature. I have more respect for them
than I will ever have for those who purposely mislead and attack these men after
Tornogal | 4:18 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012 I am LDS and I don't really know.
Joseph Smith ordained at least 1 black man to the priesthood, so it wasn't
theological as far as I can tell. I can tell you that living it Utah, race
(especially black) simply isn't an issue. There simply aren't enough black
people for people to get racist about. Besides, with all the return missionaries
here, who have served all over the world, we are a pretty racially tolerent
group as far as I can tell.
We're a peculiar people, except when we don't want to be.
I would agree with Marvin Perkins and disagree with Gordon that even the 2nd
Nephi mention is to "blacks". Black is being used figuratively in
that passage, and has nothing to do with "race" (which is in most
respects a false notion anyway). While it is at one level a nice quote, to use
it as a reference to people of African descent is to mis-read the Book of Mormon
as a modern text.
I would point out that some of the nasty things said against Romney and Mormons
have come from Democrats. My class mates saying mocking things about Romney
serving a mission in France were by no means Republicans.
Of my last 10 friends to get married, one was a white lady who married a black
man in the Detroit Temple. I could also point out that the opening prayer at
the 2008 Republican National Convention was given by a black Mormon man with a
white wife. I could list several more cases of this, from bishops in Eagle
Mountain to mission presidents in Brazil. All the Haitian Mormon women I have
known had white husbands. OK, that is a sample of two, but still. I would reccomend people get Perkins and Gray's "Blacks in the
Scriptures" DVDs. I would agree that many members of the Church lack
sensitivity on issues related to "race" (even if I agree with Perkins
that race is a false notion) and that we will not make true progress in
converting large numbers of African Americans and retaining them in the Church
until we learn how to speak about issues related to the priesthood policy that
the Lord allowed to be in place with sensitivity.Jeffery R. Holland
and Gordon B. Hinckley among others have made key comments on this, but we need
to face the issue head on.
Tornogal, The easy answer to your question is there was no written
basis. As I said elsewhere, we do not know why the Lord allowed the
policy. We do not even know exactly how the policy came into being.
That said, LDS doctrine is based on things far beyond the Book of Mormon.
There is a passage in the Book of Abraham that I once thought related to this
issue, and I was not born until 1980, so I should not have had an excuse.
However that passage really is unclear on the matter. In fact Darius Gray
argues that the Mormon views on this issue were largely based on existing
protestant interpretations of the Bible. It was not Mormons who invented the
Ham to the blacks connection idea. The Book of Abraham no more supports this
than Genesis. In fact the Book of Abraham tells of three righteous women who
were descendants of Ham and slain because they served the true God. However there is no evidence in scripture to suppose that descendants of Ham
are black. In fact there is strong evidence that there are multiple Jewish
groups scattered through Africa.
Cult: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and
transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist,
or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader. The
definition of cult could refer to any religion at all depending on the ideas of
different individuals. Some fit this definition a lot more than the LDS Church
yet we are tagged with it. Why don't other religious groups use
that name against each other? None believe the doctrines of the other. Why is
the LDS Church the only one that ignorant "evangelists" insist on
slandering with the use of that word? Is it because we don't fight back?Of all the religions in the world, I chose the LDS religion with a full
knowledge of many other religions. It is pure religion and it is of God.
People may not be perfect, not even Joseph Smith, but the truthfulness of the
LDS doctrine shines through the darkness of imperfection because it is authored
and authorized by the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Bill in Nebraska, thank you for making my point.No one cares about
opinions at the end of the day. The truth will win out, God will be vindicated
and there is a Judgment Day coming.Go read your own history and stop
spinning. You make honest Mormons blush.
With these pastors spewing so much non-sense it is no wonder that Evangelicals
have a problem with the LDS. They just make it up out of thin air and the flock
swallows it whole. What is more amazing is that reporters will report this stuff
with no interest in checking to see if it is true. Wouldn't it occur to any
responsible reporter that what these vitriolic ministers have to say may not be
accurate? I mean, death squads??? REALLY?
"I don't fully understand why blacks were not allowed the priesthood and
honestly it has no affect at all on me or who I am."It has no
effect on you at all? Could it be that you are not black?The church
leaders were just following the prejudice of the day. Not a big deal for men to
make that mistake.It is easy for the LDS to conclude that "god
had a reason for it back then".How else can you look at it?But, for people that are supposed to be guided by god, one would think they
would have been ahead of the curve.Did god have a reason, or make a
mistake, or was he not consulted at all?Hmmm.
Unfortunately there have been and will continue to be attacks from both sides of
the political spectrum.The Mormon Quest for the Presidency: From
Joseph Smith to Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman (2011) discusses the anti-mormon
rhetorique that has accompanied the presidential campaigns of Romney and other
I'm a Romney supporter first, a Gingrich supporter second. I do feel bad that
it is from the Republican side that the attacks against the Mormons has begun.
If the Democrats truly want me to look their way, then maybe if Romney gets the
nomination, the attacks will stop. The best thing the Democrats and Obama could
do for the country and themselves is see to it that the debate about who becomes
President does not include arguments about the Mormons and Rev. Wright. I'am
not holding my breath on that, but I'd be truly impressed if the Democrat Party
were to have more class than the Republican Pastors that are engaging in this
@CoraSmithDo you understand that Obama has borrowed about 5 TRILLION
dollars in tha last 3 years to "help you". Do you really think that
is a workable good public policy? Bob Beckle on Fox News does. I don't. My
logic tells me that eventually the bill for 15 plus trillion dollars will come
due and we won't be able to pay it without massive inflation, i.e. printing of
money. This train is headed in the wrong direction, and if it does not get
turned around soon, the cliff will come and we will go over it as a nation.
This is just like sports rivalry. Only instead of athletic teams battling for
the title of Number 1, it's religions battling for the title of Number 1.
Cult:"The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The
word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity
and derived from the French culte or Latin cultus, âworshipâ, from
cult-, âinhabited, cultivated, worshipped,â from the verb colere,
'care, cultivation'"All religions are "Cults", people
need to get over it.
per A voice of Reason 1:05 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012Just because something
is contradicted or discredited doesn't mean its really true. That type of
"logic" is the very antithesis of reason. per Ernest T.
Bass 7:38 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012Fixed noise is worse than MSNBC?
%m.g.scott, Most people will probably agree with you that spending and size of
government needs to be reduced; but, the problem seems to be no one can agree to
give up some of their spending, they just want others to give up theirs. So what
should be reduced or eliminated. Who should pay a fair share and who should be
excluded. It is like the childrens story: The little mice know they need
protection and warning from the big fat cat, but who is going to put the bell on
the cat. Now we have to decide by vote which cat we choose to have scurrying
after us to chew us up.
RE: JPL,of Michigan . While it is at one level a nice quote, to use it as a
reference to people of African descent is to mis-read the Book of Mormon as a
modern text.(Genesis 7:10 JST), And there was a blackness came upon all
the children of Cainan, that they were despised among all people. And (Genesis
7:22 JST) ,..all the seed of Adam save it were the seed of Cain; for the seed of
Cain were black and had not a place among them.RE: Bill in
Nebraska, Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was
said.Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the
children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege
of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve. (JoD v 13
p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264)
"Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear" Compared to what
the Pioneers faced in 1830s, this is a day to celebrate. Like it or not Mitt
will be the next president of the great US of A.
I could care less what the anti-Mo forces think. They are duped by Satan.When I was on my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some
people to go to the church where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove
the biggest Caddie. Mostly Southern Baptists.My bishop lives in a
house the size of mine (about 1100 square feet up and about 900 down), he drives
a mini van and has a job that he works at along with being bishop. I wear that
as a badge of honor.Isn't Priestcraft a wonderful thing, especially
in the South?
@skepticObama seems very ready to cut huge numbers of dollars and
people out of the military budget. If he were to add that type of cutting to a
lot more of goverment spending, we may have something. Or, maybe
just cut the new government spending that Obama has added in 3 years with almost
5 trillion dollars of added debt. Either way there is a lot of room for
cutting, if a President is willing to put a lot of government workers, military
and civilian, out of work. What we need is a President who is willing to take
the heat for causing more unemployment in the short term, in exchange for long
term financial responsibility, and ultimately a better private sector economy.
I'm not saying Romney or Gingrich are those guys, but I KNOW Obama isn't.
Flashback | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 26, 2012 Kearns, UT "When I was on
my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some people to go to the church
where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove the biggest Caddie. Mostly
Southern Baptists.My bishop lives in a house the size of mine (about 1100
square feet up and about 900 down), he drives a mini van and has a job that he
works at along with being bishop. I wear that as a badge of honor."And my Bishop now lives in the largest house in the ward. His prior
3,400 square foot home in the neighborhood was not large enough for his tastes,
so he moved up and he moved up AFTER 3 out of 5 of his children had moved away.
So I'd be careful if I were you blasting the apparent "Keep up with the
Joneses" mentality you have seen in other religions -- it is alive and well
in the Mormon church as well.
This article has the appearance of a(very)thinly veiled PR tactic from the LDS
church's PR machine. De-humanize your potential opponent before reasoned debates
and discussions even begin. Try and build a punlic perception of your opponent
and frame it in a way that is favorable to the candidate you support. It's
really not that clever and I believe most reasonable people will see right
through this. This type of PR is more likely to hurt rather than help Romney.
IMVHO he has so many flaws as a candidate that his religion is the least of his
worries. P.S. I don't see and don't believe most people see his
religion as a being flaw.
williary | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012 Kearns, UT Funny when he
was sworn in, he insisted that they use his middle name.
Flashback - I don't understand. Are you saying that anybody that doesn't believe
in mormonism is influenced by the devil?? That doesn't even make sense. People
have a right to disagree with mormonism and not be labeled as being of the
devil. I assume that since you are mormon that you are anti-catholic,
anti-baptist, etc. right? So since 99.9 percent of the world population is not
mormon would you consider them all anti-mormon? I am just trying to figure out
how you claim that anybody who doesn't believe in mormonism is of the devil.
Hank Pym,Thank you for your comment. I will offer a reasoned
response.First, contradictions have nothing to do with what I'm
arguing. Second, the idea that something has been discredited is subjective.
Credit is given, not inherent; thereby making this point irrelevant as well.-------However, I believe you were trying to argue that
"just because someone 'attempts to' discredit or contend with a claim does
not make the claim any more or less valid.By all means, I agree with
this principle. I didn't argue that opposition proves anything. My argument is
that by examining the opposition referenced as being recorded in the Book of
Mormon in the past and examining the opposition the LDS Church often faces
today- that it would only stand as evidence to support the truthfulness of the
claims in the Book of Mormon and the claim that it is the true and restored
gospel of Jesus Christ.If a book prophesies of how people will
someday fight the LDS Church, and those come true. This is evidence to support
that the book is an accurate record.
Oh please. I love DN subscibers comment that "It's the Chicago way, and
right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for
Radicals." Really? Really?And the stuff about
Obama, his family, his supposed religion, his nationality, what
"radical" play book did that come from. I swear, some people are so
deep into believing their own stuff, they wouldn't recognize a balanced
arguement if it smacked them in the face - twice. Sure the little catch phrase
obviously stolen from some radio shock jock sounds cute, but it so defies truth
is could almost be laughable. We are seeig the very same tactics
used Repubican on Republican. Just ask Herman Cain, Newt, or Romney.
Pretending that hard ball (and dishonest) politics is somehow the sole
providence of Chicago style politics defies the nasty comments made about Utah's
own Bennett, and now Hatch, from his fellow Utahns. But if making
such rediculas comments gets the angry crowd to press the Recommend button, and
thereby make themselves feel superior to another group of people, have at it.
sharrona Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at
what was said.Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out
to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the
privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve.
(JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264) LDS4All that shows is
that BY was human and guilty of pride. Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee
both said that if they say anything contrary to scripture, that scripture
prevails and their words are to be rejected. The prophets have also stated that
anything said that isn't supported by scripture is an opinion, no matter who
gives it.For any statement to become accepted as binding upon the
Church, it must be confirmed by the Church via Common Consent. To
make the claim that something BY said is official LDS teaching because of his
quote above is specious. Without Common Consent, no statements, including the
Proclamation on the Family and even revelations, are official teachings or
binding upon the membership. Bottom Line.
The problem is always someone outside looking in and claiming expertise. If
anyone suffered murderous mobocracy it was the early Latter-day Saints,
including some of the "best blood of the century" Joseph Smith Jr. The
Smiths lost two sons to martyrdom that terrible day and a third son Samuel
within weeks. I've been a member 50 years. People just do not understand the
gospel and they easily can by taking the missionary lessons and deciding for
Religion doesn't have to play a role - or at least not to this extent. It mucks
up the system. As a group, in the public discourse, religions tend to claim that
some inherent moral superiority derives from having faith itself, and that moral
superiority should supposedly prevent even atheists from publicly criticizing
the quality of factual evidence for religions, and from criticizing the moral
value of the personal choice to place the foundation of one's moral beliefs on
faith. That obviously has the result of barring us from the most effective means
of preventing religious extremism from ever taking hold: criticizing the
legitimacy of religious faith itself. Religion is a perfectly legitimate,
Constitutionally protected lifestyle choice, but it is not a valid basis for
governing everybody. The Establishment Clause prohibits favoritism to any
establishment of religion, which means to any particular faith. That leaves us
with a secular political society even if this is a majority-Christian nation;
the purpose of the Constitution is to prevent tyranny by the majority. Religion
should be left out of politics and the REAL issues should be the focus of
politics.....not a candidates religion or the lack thereof.
Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church leaders of his day
about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the US government.
These types of comments were common in those days, and not specific to the LDS
Church.Also, our country was racist up to and past 1978. Many
organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978. Why is the Church
held to such a different standard?As far as the "slime
machine" - If Romney gets the nomination, there will be ads attacking his
faith, but not by Obama. The Super PACs will do it. And Romney-supporting
Super PACs will attack Obama on anything and everything they can. Campaigns
have become an ugly, terrible thing to see. Integrity is gone. It is sad that
good people from both parties stay out of politics because of the envrionment.
Deep down I believe that both Romney and Obama are good men who love their
country and want to help make it better. The political process just demonizes
everyone and turns them into caricatures....Sad really....
@LDS4. The prophets have also stated that anything said that isn't supported by
scripture is an opinion, no matter who gives it. Very confusing which is
truth?That seer his name shall be called Joseph(Smith), and it shall
be after the name of his father. ( Genesis 50:33 JST)? JS, prophecy about
himself.Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph son of Jacob, prophesied of the
future mission of the Prophet JS twenty-four hundred years before the LDS
prophet was born(50:33 JST ).(Religious truth defined by Joseph Fielding Smith,
p.256-257)confirmed.Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a
bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him
homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always
keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do
anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then
with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let
his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.
@Redwings"Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church
leaders of his day about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the
US government. These types of comments were common in those days, and not
specific to the LDS Church.Also, our country was racist up to and
past 1978. Many organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978.
Why is the Church held to such a different standard?"The church
claims to have the sole authority of receiving direct revelation from God and it
is peculiar that the world (by which I mean the nation which was protesting BYU
over the church's racial policies) would be leading the church rather than the
church leading the nation in terms of being ahead of the game for things like
Ok Where do the anti mormon attacks come from?I find it hard to
believe that these attacks on Romney and the church come from Democrats!What reason would they have of wasting money on it?The
attacks are coming from right wing Republicans. Most likely Evangelicals.LDS faithful ought to wise up and recognize who their friends are and
who dis like them.At this point in time it is pretty clear to me.
Oh yes those crazy insane wacky Mormons. Crazy! They tithe the church and wear
garments.. .and other odd stuff... and they *gasp* used to be polygamists. We can toss a few other things in there.. .Mountain Meadows... etc
etc...Soooo.. let us compare to other religions shall we? I think
people are going to find that the LDS faith is actually one of the least strange
and much more balanced. I mean.. my ward is full of loonies..
Sharrona and alt134: You bring up points but none of the Presidents of the
Church has led it astray. You may questions why they do what they do.The thing is that if you look at the way the country is led and you see how
things really are you both would understand that nothing of the Church was
actually racist. The Journal of Discourses are not and I repeat not official
Church teachings. Many of these discourses are cited by second and third hand
reports. This means that what was said in the discourses may not have actually
been said or if so the entire context is missed. Using this to defend your
position is exactly that pointless. They are not actual quotes of the
individual.I have reasoned with myself and I have asked this
question: Could the Church have grown as it did by allowing blacks to hold the
priesthood prior to 1978? The answer to that question is a resounding NO. We
believe in constant revelation and the Lord's time for reproving or changing
PRACTICES are dependent upon him not man. As Joseph Smith once said, "If
the Lord commands it, do it".
sharronaMarion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant
talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his
arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president
of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do
it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But
you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.
(Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK. LDS4Again, It doesn't
matter what MGR, HJG or whoever said. If it's not sustained via Common Consent,
it's just opinion. Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the
Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?
Funny when people call mormons racist when Joseph Smith basically adopted two
slaves where they lived completely free in the smith house as family and Joseph
Smith sold one of his own horses to buy the freedom of a slave. Yeah thats
Some LDS members in the past were racist. As, I'm sure majority of
American's in the past who used human trafficking for slave markets.
This, is established. It is not a 'smear' campaign to acknowledge we HAD
self-evident racism in America's, and her citizens', in the past. To
claim it was somehow 'justified' because OTHER people did it? Not
acceptable. To move FOWARD, and DENOUNCE discrimination in all it's
forms? Is the only way to shake, such images off the LDS, or anyone
else for that matter. Condeming discrimination, for whatever,
reason, is the only way to set the example we all wish. That people will treat
us fairly. To go BACK to such tactics..? To attempt to
find 'reason' that 'X' minority 'should' do it and 'X' minority should
not...? **'Dr. Laura's N-Word Rant: Radio Host Apologizes For
Offensive Language' - Danny Shea - Huffington Post - 08/12/10 'Dr.
Laura Schlessinger has apologized after a shocking rant on her radio show this
week during which she said the n-word 11 times over the course of five minutes.'
- article Serves no purpose. And 'no'... I
don't call my Mormon friends names or discriminate against them!
@LDS4: Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that
isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?St. James Epistle is really
an epistle of straw compared to [St. Paul's letters], for it lacks this
evangelical character" Deutsche Bibel 6 as quoted in P988. Luther.Luther however, never declared James or any other New Testament book
non-canonical. He quotes from James occasionally. Man is justified by faith
alone, but not by faith that is alone. Luthers comment on James before his death
.( James 2:14-26).Different category, Martin Luther never claimed to
be a prophet or revelation;God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the
children of Israel, and he will make me be a god to you in His stead, and the
Elders to be a mouth for me; and if you dont like, you must lump it.(DHC v. 6 pp
I'm an Obama supporter and I promise never to slime your church. Because it's
my church too. :)
The LDS church sends 19 year-olds with a few weeks training to publicly
represent the church world-wide. If they are willing to do that, I doubt they
are worried about some political ads that make fun of their beliefs.
Shouldnt we all seek a world without prejudice and bigotry. The constitution
protects and allows for this freedom. These religious leaders need to keep this
mind. Its a lesson all including those who are LDS should well remember.
Scott Gordon omits the changes made to the Book of Mormon under President
Hinkley. I'm not opining on this because it really doesn't matter. What I will
say is that Joseph Walker, this newspaper and the LDS community still has a
persecution complex and are thin-skinned about criticism from other religious
quarters. It's time to get over it and be confident in who you are. So what if
there is criticism. You aren't alone in being criticized.
Esquire,Labels like "persecution complex" are logically
fallacious and distract from the truth.Anyone who understands the
core philosophies behind our beliefs, the nature of God, the nature of the
entire work behind the church, etc. would know that when people 'fight the
church' it is a real concern and one that we believe in addressing as best we
are able or as God wants us to.The Book of Mormon has accounts of
anti-Christ's fighting prophets of God. This mentality of "what's the point
defending" is incompatible with our own beliefs, even the very nature of
believing itself unless we believe in 100% indifference to everything (one then
questions the point of existence). The entire point of this work is to convince
others of the truth, to get up, get working, and help lift up others. The only
"what's the point" that should be asked is why people criticize to
begin with. Criticism is inherently a hostile action. After being attacked for
beliefs, now you're claim is that we're illogical for defending them. This is
far from any reasonable argument in any scholarly realm or school of thought.
@BrahmaBull"The church may not be racist now, but it used to
be. If you have ever read the journal of discourses with talks by Brigham Young
and others you would agree. I will not put those quotes here because I think
they are rude, but if you want to check them out I encourage you to do
so."That may have been true but it also reflected the mood of
the country at the time in which those statements were made. The United States
back then was also racist for the most part even after the Civil War. Research
the attitudes of churches towards blacks and what they believed and you will see
what I mean. Allso there were laws passed by congress that counted slaves as
only one-third of a person.
@GemimiâBiblical Christians are appalled at Mormon doctrines
because they completely deny the veracity of the Bible as God's infallible Word,
they deny His character and essence as given in His text. They rewrote and
redefined historic Christianity.âI think the council of Nicea
wrote and redefined historical Christianity. The oldest new testament in
existence can only be dated to the third century A.D. If you know of any other
documents that contain the full texts of the New Testament that come from
earlier sources preferably during the times of Christ and the apostles and
before the Roman persecutions, I would be very interested in reading them.
Joseph Smith has been accused of fabricating the Book of Mormon but who is to
say that those responsible for compiling the New Testament did not resort to a
little creative writing of their own.
Since the term "cult" is seldom (if ever) defined, I am forced to
conclude that a cult is basically any religion that right wing Protestants don't
happen to like.As for me, I rejected right wing fundamentalist
teachings long ago. Their continual degrading and belittling of the individual
- coupled with liberal doses of unexplained guilt - alienated me as an American
and a human being. Their Doctrine of Original Sin (wherein we are told to
blindly accept guilt for the sin of Adam) contradicts the American concept of
justice (wherein we are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of
law).Their continual harping on how we are "by nature
evil" or "totally depraved" fosters an attitude of little more
than self-loathing. This is unhealthy - especially for young children - I don't
care how "Christian" it may be.