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Group lists Top Ten Anti-Mormon Statements of 2011

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  • eagle651 Chino Valley, AZ
    Jan. 8, 2012 11:11 p.m.

    Dr. John Ankerberg has again opened his a Anti Mormon blitz on his TV programs, just in time for the Primary Elections.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Jan. 9, 2012 7:00 a.m.

    This gem missed the list because it came in 2007

    "Would the potential attraction to Mormonism by simply having a Mormon in the
    White House threaten traditional Christianity by leading more Americans to a
    church that some Christians believe misleadingly calls itself Christian, is an active missionary church, and a dangerous cult?"

    - Rick Santorum

    How many will vote for this man in the "anyone but Obama" sweepstakes?

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:20 a.m.

    The sad truth is that almost all of the supposed anti-Mormon statements contain the element of truth, question and common concern. It seems a part of the problem is Mormonism's push to become a mainstream religion and in the process they are converting from religion to politics. The FLDS is a religion(strange and troubled), but the SLC-LDS has become a community of devotional politics.

  • Weber State Graduate Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    Disrespectful statements used to belittle Mormons are nothing more than religious bigotry and it's unfortunate that many Americans seem not to care...as long as it's against the Mormons. However, the epitome of hypocrisy is exhibited by mainstream Christians when they engage in such bigotry while crying foul when the same bigotry is exhibited against them.

    At the same time, respectful disagreement and challenging discourse regarding the more dubious claims made by Mormonism is not bigotry. It's reasonable to provide a legitimate challenge to some of the more fantastic claims by the church and it's tiresome to hear the hackneyed term "anti-Mormon" incessantly used by oversensitive members.

  • Fern RL LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    "...said another MormonVoices managing director, John Lynch. '...so disrespectful that their only effect will be to increase bigotry against Mormons.'"

    It is unthinkable to me that any of the most extremely disrespectful comments posted here would really be taken seriously by anyone who cares about independent thought. I would rather expect that most people would see the bigotry for what it is and refuse to buy into it.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    A lot of the statements that some of you folks feel are "disrespectful" are simply statements of honest, proven fact that contradict your religious beleifs.

    Or do you really believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that Noah's flood actually happened?

    If I point out the provable falseness of those beliefs, the problem is not that I am being disrespectful, the problem is that the people clinging to those beliefs in spite of all evidence to the contrary are declaring themselves to be either irrational, dishonest, or willfully ignornant.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:55 a.m.

    If I have Bill Maher on my team or championing my cause....I am a loser!

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    You gotta be kidding me. "The Top 10 Anti-Mormon Statements in 2011"? Certainly there's more productive news to report on. I didn't get beyond the title of the article. I'll file this article under my "who cares" category. An article like this does nothing more than instill frustration amongst members of the church.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Jan. 9, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    Skeptic has is just right. To even publish an article like this feels a bit like somebody feels threatened to me.

  • New Yorker Pleasant Grove, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    The LDS church (and other minority religions) discovered long ago that ignoring bigotry and not confronting it can only lead to another Crystal Night and the subsequent atrocities.

    The thought that "I would rather expect that most people would see the bigotry for what it is and refuse to buy into it." does not prove to be true, at least among mankind. Humans have an "us against them" streak in them which cries out for unjust and even bloody expression. Today's immigration problem is real, but the fires are being fed by the irrational "us against them" streak to the degree that reasonable men cannot implement a reasonable solution to the problem. Too many want "a pound of flesh" before accepting any solution.

    Some commenting in these forums are really after a pound of flesh from the Mormons, from the "illegal" aliens, from the bankers, from the politicians on the "other" side, from anyone who is not them. The collective voice of reasonable people has to be encouraged so that the shrill voices of those crying "Fire, fire!" will not prevail. No, Chicken Little, the sky will not fall if we don't first collect a pound of flesh.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:09 a.m.

    The best defense is a good offense. The best way to handle these nitwits is to ignore them.

  • JeffE Grantsville, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:10 a.m.

    I would like to gently point out that those who are not in the "targeted" group find it easy to say that those who are targeted are just being sensitive. Those who say that this is a non-newsworthy issue should simply replace the term "mormon" with any other religious, ethnic, or other social group name and see how shocking it sounds.

    To those saying mormons shouldn't feel threatened by comments like these obvoiusly don't understand the history of the church, or the power of the press.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:13 a.m.

    Mormon theology, teachings given in its Gospel Principle books, Journal of Discourses, History of the Church books and in talks given by LDS leaders (apostles, prophets, seventies) DO teach that Mormons will be gods over their own worlds.

    Doubt me? This stuff isn't hard to find by going on lds.org and doing a search.

    God is as man may become and man is as God once was. Sound familiar?

  • EightOhOne St. George, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:14 a.m.

    ^^^^^lol, wow

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 10:43 a.m.

    The church is viewed as LDS, Inc.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:07 a.m.

    First of all, about our own planets, yes, I believe that and hope for that, but do I have all the qualifications to do that, no, could take a trillion years. Try comprehending that. But there is a person, in my opinion who is trying to have his own planet in just his lifetime here, that is George Soros, who probably funds most of these people who speak out against the church or anything good.

    Second, today I was listening to the scriptures and listened to Doctrine and Covenants section 134. WOW!!! If anyone has qualms about a Mormon and bringing their religion into the office of president, this should calm it. I wrote to Romneys campaign and told them they need to quite some of this.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:07 a.m.

    Since the term "cult" is seldom if ever defined, I am forced to conclude that a cult is basically any religion that right wing fundamentalists don't like.

    As for getting my own planet, it's interesting that many people even today think of Heaven as a place where we do nothing but sit and play harps and sing songs of praise throughout eternity, worlds without end. I have no singing ability, and don't know the first thing about playing a harp or any other musical instrument - so if I have any choice in the matter I'll take the Planet, thank you very much!

  • VocalLocal Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:18 a.m.

    When is The Deseret News going to give the Top Ten Anti-Atheist Statements of 2011?

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    Geese and ganders, dear children - geese and ganders.

    Commentators on these threads often urge that gays and blacks and those who belong to many other groups just need thicker skin and claim that being offended is a choice and we need to get over the whole "PC" movement and move on, etc., etc., etc.

    Now many of those same posters are offended and want to cry foul when things are uttered that they find offensive.

    What is good for the goose is good for the gander and you shouldn't expect to be treated any better than you treat others.

    IMNSHO, we should try to be as inoffensive as possible and treat others the way we wish to be treated.

    But it really is rather silly to claim unfair treatment when others react to us the way we react to them.

  • 2buyus Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    "God is as man may become and man is as God once was. Sound familiar?"

    Yes, Thinkman, it was Irenaeus who first said it almost 1,500 years ago.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:31 a.m.

    @sashabill
    "As for getting my own planet, it's interesting that many people even today think of Heaven as a place where we do nothing but sit and play harps and sing songs of praise throughout eternity, worlds without end. "

    What I find interesting with regards to the planet thing is that many non-LDS Christians read the "many mansions" verses and think that is literal enough so really what's the difference between mansion and planet or some other term for living space? Frankly I'd find the scenary to be nicer.

    The real disagreement should be about the matter of spirit children and infinite progression of Gods. The mere concept of "getting a planet" shouldn't be the issue though I suppose some people may be using the phrase "get a planet" to mean "become a God and start your own cycle".

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    **'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11

    **'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

    "(Robert) Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,' and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. ... Asked by Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No.' "

    **Cult of Mormon comment leads Newt Gingrichs Iowa political director, Craig Bergman, to resign - By Tad Walch Deseret News 12/14/11

    "Craig Bergman joined Newt Gingrich's team last Thursday as the Iowa political director for the Republican frontrunner. He resigned Wednesday after he appeared to call Mormonism a "cult."

    When Rick Santorum compared questions about gay marriage to polygamy, many of my friends on the FB asked 'is that a jab at Mitt Romney?'

    My reply was:

    "If the LDS church is no longer polygamys, then it would NOT be a jab at Mitt Romney's faith, correct?"

    How do you feel about this?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:39 a.m.

    To any poster willing to reply, many get upset about the 'anti-mormon' bias in the American political system, however:

    **'Trump on Obama's Birth Certificate: 'Maybe It Says He's a Muslim' - Fox Nation - 03/30/11

    why is it 'not' acceptable to find offense at Mitt Romney's factual LDS faith...

    but it IS acceptable to continue to claim that Obama is a Muslim?

    When:

    **'Obama, family attend Christmas church services' - By Julie Pace - AP - Pulibshed by DSNews - 12/25/11

    The claim that Obama was 'born in Kenya' or is Mulsim...

    have factually been proven false...

    "I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."

    - Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USA Today - 07/28/09 - By Dan Nakaso, The Honolulu Advertiser

    Again, and again, and again....

    Why is it ok for one (Obama) and 'not' Mitt Romney?

    Where were these people who find offense about Romney, when it was being done to Obama?

    Answer:

    They participated in it.

  • metamoracoug metamora, IL
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:42 a.m.

    Weber State Grad: you said, "It's reasonable to provide a legitimate challenge to some of the more fantastic claims by the church and it's tiresome to hear the hackneyed term "anti-Mormon" incessantly used by oversensitive members."

    Thank you for your appropriate response to this article and your forthright comment. I suspect this is a function of living in Utah more than anything else. In Illinois, Mormons understand what "anti-Mormon" really is, such as having a high school teacher tell one of your children that "Mormons are like Nazis" or a Lutheran minister telling another child that "All Mormons are going to hell." Personally, I don't worry too much about these things, ultimately believing that what I do speaks a lot more loudly than what I say about what I believe.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    Mormonism is guilty of the same thing they accuse others of dishing out! I've seen alot of bigotry and "anti" sentiments right here on this board toward people who believe differently....especially atheists. People who have a disagreeing opinion, or simply challenge the assertions of Mormonism become "anti" for simply doing that. It's reasonable to challenge ridiculous and questionable religious claims made by any church or religion. As (Weber State Graduate) says...."it's tiresome to hear the hackneyed term "anti-Mormon" incessantly used by oversensitive members" especially when they are "anti" toward others who believe differently than them. I rarely see atheists be as sensitive to challenges as religious people or call them "anti-atheist". I often think Mormonss become sensitive to challenges because they often cannot answer the challenges atheists (and others religions) present so they resort to pulling out the "anti-Mormon" card instead of answering the challenge with supported arguments and reasonable discourse. Nobody is "anti-Mormon since Mormons are free to practice their religion. However, they can't expect all people to be silent about their disagreement with it when bringing it into the public square.....the same as with any belief or opinion.

  • 2buyus Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    The only difference, Joggle, is the Mormons who are guilty of the same thing do not represent the church (nor does the church itself ever attack anyone), whereas the kinds of attacks and negativity listed in the article affect all Mormons and the LDS church. Seems totally off-sided to me.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 12:51 p.m.

    Maybe next we should all attack the, huh? enviromentalists? No that would get a lot of hate. The Muslims? No they have rights. How about the Catholics? Yea, they should be next because every body knows it is far easier to say and do evil against those who are trying to do good for human kind.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:23 p.m.

    @2buyus

    When the the LDS Church comes out publically against a group of people or an issue such as homosexuality and abortion, or if an opposing person or group simply views Mormonism from a different perspective that has elements of truth based on that perspective and not a strictly Mormon perspective....then of course they aren't going to agree. People can view themselves differently than others_do. For example, you may not think many aspects of Mormonism are ridiculous because your view comes from within and you view it as normal where someone outside of the religion has reason to view it as ridiculous. The Church often is attempting to influence public and private issues whether political, moral, or societal. That could just as well be viewed as an attack on a particuliar part of the population or an attempt at influencing politics and moral issues. The LDS Church is an entity that represents its members so even though the members might disagree with the Church....the Church itself can be viewed as attacking a segment of society or attempting to influence government. If a member support the Churches representation of itself and expresses it publically then they must expect opposition.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    'The only difference, Joggle, is the Mormons who are guilty of the same thing do not represent the church (nor does the church itself ever attack anyone)...' - 2buyus | 12:10 p.m. Jan. 9, 2012

    While majority of my Mormon friends actually FOLLOW the teachings, as an organization, I would have to disagree.

    As exampled by:

    **'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' - By Lynn Arave - By Dsnews - 02/03/09

    "Proposition 8 was a ballot measure in California last November that changed the state constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry."

    **'Mormon Church agrees to pay small fine for mistake that led to late report of contributions in Prop. 8 campaign' - By Scott Taylor - By DSnews - 06/09/10

    Does this 'justify' simply insulting the LDS faith?

    No. It does NOT.

    Saying abstract insults about a faith is not needed in our society.

    But I think the history in question, is far from perfect as you might believe.

  • Carol P. Warnick Ephraim, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:28 p.m.

    These people should be held accountable for the un-truths they generate. They need proof of what they say not just assumptions. Their statements are bias because of their lack or research in finding out the facts.

  • UtahTwisted Riverton, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    Interesting list. Are any of the items on the list not true?

  • Carol P. Warnick Ephraim, Utah
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    Everyone has a right to their own oppinions but when those oppinions are not done after much research and facts they beccome bias and hurtful and even hateful. Everyone has the right to disagree but not a right to attack others beliefs, especially those beliefs that are held sacred and personal.

  • AZ Blue & Red Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    Am I the only one that really is not so worried about what others say. We all have our opinions. If they start to hurt or do physical harm then I get worried.

    It comes to mind that many main stream "Christians" were not so angelic. Among others Hitler came to mind. Glad we did not judge him by his "Christian" affiliation. His sentiments on Jews and minorities sound a tad bit similar to those listed in the article. Difference is he did do the hurt and physical harm. My father left my mother and risked his life for 3 years in Europe for those rights. Yet others forget what the country was founded for.

    Stupid is as Stupid does. Or in this case says.

  • billysworkshop PROVO, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    God have mercy on their souls.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 1:54 p.m.

    'Everyone has the right to disagree but not a right to attack others beliefs, especially those beliefs that are held sacred and personal.' - Carol P. Warnick | 1:38 p.m. Jan. 9, 2012

    Carol, I think your post's are well thought out, and you advocate research.

    I agree with you.

    And if your beliefs only AFFECT you, I care what they are.

    It is when those belief's cross over to factually AFFECT others, is when I think that rational discussion of those beliefs, are valid.

    Look at every argument against gay marriage. It typically starts with 'I believe...' or 'The bible says...'

    Using a book ABOUT a religion, to support a religious stance does NOT say the harm those belief's, may bring when ENFORCED, upon others.

    As exampled by:

    **'Kept From a Dying Partners Bedside' - By TARA PARKER-POPE - NY Times - 05/18/09

    "...the couples had prepared for a medical emergency, creating living wills, advanced directives and power-of-attorney documents."

    Me: And yet, even with Living Will, Medical Directive, Power of attorney and emergency contact information...

    Janice Langbehn was kept from the bedside of her dying partner, Lisa Pond.

    They were together for 18 years.

    Good day.

  • alices CATHEDRAL CITY, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    I fail to understand how simple statements that are in essence true, constitute bigotry. How about rather than whine and feel persecuted, members of the church try learning to be apologists, prove these people wrong and research the claims made by anti-mormons for themselves rather than rely on FAIR/FARMS.

    Frankly, I think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. When I lived in Provo, I heard the nastiest things said about Evangelicals, worse than this. These statements are not nearly as bad as things said about Christians or Jews.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 2:46 p.m.

    Really, you had to print this article. Common, what is going on with the DNEWS? This is abad idea of an article and the article itself is even worse.

  • Sigfried Payson, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 3:01 p.m.

    Oh no! I'm afraid all of this will discredit the church and bring it down!
    Snicker.

    It's acutally refreshing to see that these people will say things about the church that they would never say about any other group. Even Scientology. That they continue cross so far over the line of respect and common decency indicates we still have some heavy opposition!

    I hope we are always peculiar to the great and abominable. . . well you get it.

  • alices CATHEDRAL CITY, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 3:52 p.m.

    @sigfried, thank you for proving my point. Why is it that the LDS can say horrible things about Christians like calling them the great and abominable church, but if Christians criticize Mormonism they are automatically labeled "anti-Mormons" and accused of bigotry?

    The so called bigotry works both ways. Mormons are just as guilty if not moreso than Christians. Have you read some of the things your leaders and prophets have said about Christianity? Do you agree with them?

  • LDS Revelations Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 4:11 p.m.

    "It's actually refreshing to see that these people will say things about the church that they would never say about any other group. Even Scientology."

    Uh.... by singling out Scientology are you really any different? Is being passive aggressive so much better than being honestly critical? And why do they think that if you smile while dissing someone it is somehow not being critical?

    "I hope we are always peculiar to the great and abominable. . . well you get it."

    As an LDS missionary I threw around terms like "great and abominable church of the devil"....and "Babylon" and even "anti-Mormon" to describe those that had anything critical to say about the Church. The irony is that I was the one who was calling names and was getting personal rather than addressing the criticisms. I don't really see how this approach is any better than what you say these so-called 'antis' are doing.

  • Candide Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    Carol P. Warnick
    "Everyone has the right to disagree but not a right to attack others beliefs, especially those beliefs that are held sacred and personal."
    There are some who believe that the world is going to end Dec 2012. If I say that is superstitious nonsense, is that an attack on others beleifs? It is not beliefs that shouldn't be attacked (scrutinized and subject to evidence) it is people that shouldn't be attacked. The 1st amendment gaurantees us the right to free speech. Even though you might not like what I say, I still get to say it no matter how much it offends your sacred beliefs. Human beings are to be respected, but not the silly things that they believe.

  • Daddiooh Orem, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 4:25 p.m.

    To Ben Ferguson: Heck Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

    On a serious note, There are always going to be people who say things to try to tear down the Church. Some, like Bill Maher, make it a big part of their schtick and are quite insulting. Others, just show their ignorance and willingness to ignore the main, top line truth about the LDS Church--That we are first and foremost Christians. Once we can get people to WILLINGLY accept this truth about our Church, the ignorance will decrease; however, those comments based upon a hatred and bigotry will just increase. Fortunately, I don't think anyone seriously looks at the Bill Mahers of the world and thinks they speak with any real authority except that of an (so-called) entertainer. If they do, pity be to them.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 4:40 p.m.

    @Carol P. Warnick, Mormons often confuse bigotry from the truth.

    Catholic Answers consider Mormonism a non-Christian religion and The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church.

  • BigRich Orem, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 5:16 p.m.

    As Neal A. Maxwell once said, "The laughter of the world is merely loneliness pathetically trying to reassure itself." The church as endured far worse and comments such as those rendered in the article only serve to hurt the one who penned them. I, for one, have little time for them and far more important things to be concerned with.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 5:19 p.m.

    The statements of Maher and Hitchens among others weren't that bad. Mormons Inc. needs to get a bit thicker skin, especially as it morphs from religion to politics. If you're gonna bring it to the table, don't expect nothing but good reviews. Religion is totally subjective, and all the efforts made to refute anyones' statement to the contrary is worth nothing more than the original statement.

  • So. Cal Reader San Diego, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 5:30 p.m.

    OK. So, I finally read the entire article. "A quote by comedian Bill Maher was the most glaring anti-Mormon statement made by a public figure during 2011"

    Maher's Quote: "By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion"

    Pa-lease! As a life-long, active member of the church, Im proud to say Im a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    We have always had derogatory statements (any many worst in the past!) and will have them in the future.

    If, indeed, MormonVoices is a "volunteer group dedicated to, in their words, providing accurate information about the LDS Church", why simply throw out the 10 statements alone? That's what I found so inflammatory about the article.

    I've personally heard so much worse than Maher's statement. And the dude's more of a comedian than anything else, so you take people like that with a grain of salt.

    And if you think these 10 are bad, buckle your chin straps for the presidential campaign once Mitt goes toe-to-toe with Obama.

  • alices CATHEDRAL CITY, CA
    Jan. 9, 2012 6:37 p.m.

    @daddiooh, You stated "That we are first and foremost Christians. Once we can get people to WILLINGLY accept this truth about our Church, "

    How do you expect Christians to willingly embrace Mormons as Christians when they deny fundamental doctrines of Christianity - like the nature of God, and the nature and work of Christ?

    For most of LDS history, the LDS excluded themselves from Christianity, only in the last 25 years or so have they even wanted to be called Christians.

  • mcdugall Layton, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 7:20 p.m.

    "Religious bigotry is unacceptable," Scott Gordon - But Bigotry endorsed by religious groups is acceptable? How about both religious and non-religious groups end all bigotry, it would be the best thing for humanity.

    big·ot·ry   [big-uh-tree]
    noun, plural -ries.
    1.
    stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
    2.
    the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.

  • tuffgong POCATELLO, ID
    Jan. 9, 2012 7:41 p.m.

    Yawn.. The more these scrubs fight and rail against the church, the more it will grow and the soft of heart will read through their erroneous hate remarks.. Who cares what these clowns say? They are all recycled re-hashed remarks anyway..

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 8:57 p.m.

    "...but we heeded them not."

    The gospel in the time of Christ was just as unpopular with the establishment as the LDS church is today. The gospel is never going to be 'mainstream' but the membership of the church will continue to grow as it has every year.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 9:20 p.m.

    @alices
    "How do you expect Christians to willingly embrace Mormons as Christians when they deny fundamental doctrines of Christianity - like the nature of God, and the nature and work of Christ?"

    My methodist pastor seemed to think that the idea of Mormons being Christians was obvious. My atheist speech professor in college did not allow me to give a persuasive speech on "mormons are Christian" because "it'd be way too easy to persuade" (not to the evangelical in that class it wouldn't, she was very much concerned about my soul when I noted an interest in mormonism... also when I noted my belief in evolution). When people aren't vested in the idea of "I'm right, you're wrong" and can engage in a discussion that doesn't involve trying to one-up other people... then it's pretty easy to consider Mormons Christian.

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:27 p.m.

    To one of the posters name starts with a J haven't I heard that train of thought from you one too many times?
    You clearly have no interest in debating as you sometimes say with an open mind?
    You clearly just want to make your same repetitive point

  • Robbie512 PROVO, UT
    Jan. 9, 2012 11:32 p.m.

    While we may disagree, others are perfectly entitled to their opinion of what constitutes a Christian church. They aren't the only ones who claim to be the one true church of Christ.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 12:48 a.m.

    It is interesting to note that those of the same gender attraction are the most vocal in their anti-mormon rhetoric.

    Did they not get the memo back in 1995 by the 1st Presidency with the Proclamation on the Family?

    When the church perceived that the family and the rights of children were being assaulted by California law, they simply followed through with their 1995 memo and came to the defence of marriage, family and a childs right to be born into a family with both a father and a mother.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Jan. 10, 2012 5:55 a.m.

    Maher's Quote: "By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion"

    When you stand back, look at Mormonism in the eye's of someone that doesn't know a thing about but understanding all the facets of the religion Maher is right on target.

  • Roseyrose ,
    Jan. 10, 2012 6:25 a.m.

    All through my life I have had people being anti at me for some reason or another, for being protestant, female, Scottish and poor so why not Mormon now since I joined many years ago. Its like everything in life you take the good with bad and stick to what you believe in. I think i will sleep very well at night no matter what Bill Maher throws at my religion or anyone else. Oh and being Scottish there is a lot of braveheart in me, so expect the occasional kick back.

  • raybies Layton, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 6:32 a.m.

    Juding from some of those commenting here, there's a lot of jealousy that their pointless tirades and tired diatribes didn't make the list.

    Well, there's always next year. Buwahahaha.

    Something as spiritually significant, valuable, and important as the LDS faith will always have it detractors, nay-sayers and opposition.

    And still, faith manages to find a way... almost as though that was the point.

  • EnglishAlan Rugeley, Staffs
    Jan. 10, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    I believe what I believe from personal choice, and I enjoy that right. As a convert to the LDS Church of 43 years, I have learned that if others disagree with my beliefs, I give them that same right. What they say will not affect my beliefs, and whatever I say will probably not affect theirs.

    I believe that where we may differ, however, is that I will never be rude in the way I speak about their beliefs. What I have learned, sadly, is that I don't always get that same courtesy.

    Personally, I think it is very sad that "we" and "mainline Christians" have much in common, and yet we seem to focus on the differences. Let's join forces, and spend our common funds on pushing forward the word of Christ. We opened a new chapel close to where I live in Staffordshire, as we were approaching Easter. The local Minister spent valued funds on buying and distributing pamphlets that knocked the Mormons. Why, as Easter approached, didn't he spend it on promoting the Atonement, and Infinite love of Jesus?

  • Red Headed Stranger Billy Bobs, TX
    Jan. 10, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    >UtahTwisted
    >Interesting list. Are any of the items on the list not true?

    Clearly not. Clever rhetorical twists are not informative. Space doesn't allow me to rebut every statement, so I'll start at one:

    "(Mormonism is) one of the most egregious groups operating on American soil." (Egregious is defined as extraordinary in some bad way)

    Really? The organization who consistently and constantly teaches of love, forgiveness, honesty, fidelity towards spouse, patience and care of children, respect for elders, excellence in self conduct, patriotism is "extraordinary in some bad way"? It is as dangerous or more dangerous than organized crime? It is as dangerous as neo-nazis or the Klu Klux Klan? As or more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco companies? I read Hitchen's piece before he died, and it is clear what his sources were, and with sloppy sourcing that he never actually bothered to speak to an actual practicing Mormon or visit an LDS church. But that would have taken too much time, and would have gone against his agenda.

    (next post Bloom)

  • IMAN Marlborough, MA
    Jan. 10, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    What is the criteria for something to be considered anti-mormon?

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 9:09 a.m.

    @ TRUTH | 8:55 a.m. Jan. 9, 2012

    Agreed. You'd be better off w/ the late Christopher Hitchens or Lewis Black.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Jan. 10, 2012 9:25 a.m.

    BigRich - So you have better things to do, yet you still had time to not only read the article but to comment on it? That doesn't sound like somebody who has better things to do. Plus, when Maxwell made that statement it was only his opinion, not doctrine so we have to take it as opinion.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    @Counter Intelligence ,Should Jews, gays, blacks, etc also get a thicker skin?

    (Genesis 7:10 JST), And there was a blackness came upon all the children of Cainan, that they were despised among all people. And (Genesis 7:22 JST) ,..all the seed of Adam save it were the seed of Cain; for the seed of Cain were black and had not a place among them.

    Brigham Young, Can you make a Christian of a Jew? I tell you Nay, If a Jew comes into this church ,and the blood honestly professes to be a Saint, a follower of Christ, and if the blood of Judah is in his veins, he will apostatize.(JoD V. 2 p. 142)

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Jan. 10, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    I am a Jew and I have not apostatize yet. Mind you my family has been in the church since th 1830's

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 10:20 a.m.

    I think it's genuinely bizarre, not to mention a tad neurotic, that we would publish such a list.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 11:09 a.m.

    Some of the statements imply that because the LDS Church has certain moral standards to which it adhers, that in and of itself makes the Church and it's members either judgemental or bigoted. Well, that same standard could apply to any person or organization that participates in the democratic process. Just watch how the media and Obama supporters are going to imply racism when he is opposed.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 11:43 a.m.

    iron&clay says:

    "Did they not get the memo back in 1995 by the 1st Presidency with the Proclamation on the Family?"

    ---

    The proclamation applies to Mormons and those who follow your faith. Nobody else is obliged to follow YOUR doctrines. The proclamation is irrelevant.

  • HappyLDSUte PROVO, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    @Certain person

    "[Something that certain someone posted]"

    'That isn't true.' '[Insert view, opinion, or claim] is completely wrong!'

    '[Insert witty and/or belittling comeback]'

    "Blah blah is blah blah." - A famous or infamous so and so.

    (Standard format for comments by both Pro LDS and Anti LDS posters)

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    @Stay the Course

    I heard no train of thought from you that I can debate so would you be so kind as to present some reasonable form of debate to which a person can respond to in return or debate instead of attempting to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. Your accusation of having no interest in debate is an unsupported assumption since no debate has been initiated between us. Although my opinion or disagreement may be similiar to previous points I've made it isn't my goal to change my established opinion to please you. Logically speaking....if my argument and/or assertions have not changed.....then they will be similiar when presented, but since I don't keep copy and paste files....the argument may be the same, but the words will be different. You are welcome to debate the subject, but ad hominems are not debate! In fact, in a way....you prove my point! Thanks.

  • Rick LT GLENDALE, AZ
    Jan. 10, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    What could you expect from an ultra-radical-leftist like Maher. As I remember, he's an atheist anyway. So, he has no standing to even make an observation. Unfortunately there are way too many jerks like him out there spouting off about something they know nothing about, or intentionally lying, a common trait of lefties.

  • IMAN Marlborough, MA
    Jan. 10, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    Re: Counter Intelligence

    Thanks for your opinion on what the criteria is for something to be considered anti-mormon. I asked because when I read through this thread it appeared to me that the range in criteria for something to be considered anti-mormon has a wide spread. I was hoping more folks would have shared their opinion on that specific question.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    @Ranchhand
    The proclamation on Families from 1995 is actually titled:

    A Proclamation To The WORLD.

    It called upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

    It also came with a warning to all that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities fortold by ancient and modern prophets.

  • Jeff Temple City, CA
    Jan. 10, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    @IMAM: I can give an LDS perspective on your question of what constitutes "anti-Mormon" discourse.

    I think that Counter Intelligence has it correct that intent is the primary descriptor. If someone asks a question about Mormon beliefs, or even expresses the honest opinion that those beliefs are strange, that wouldn't be considered anti-Mormon. On the other hand, if someone repeatedly asks the same question--not for an answer, but rhetorically to throw doubt on Mormon credibility or sincerity; or if someone repeatedly couches Mormon beliefs in language that is intended to make us look or feel ridiculous, those things would properly be considered anti-Mormon.

    There are some things that are so obvious they shouldn't need definition, but they crop up repeatedly: Some people advocate violence against Mormons or Mormon property--physical or economic violence, for example. This is often couched in terms of, "No one should do anything violent to the Mormons, but if they support Prop. 8, they deserve it," in the old classical idea of encouraging something while appearing to discourage it.

    Ironically, there are many posters here who insist they are not "anti-Mormon" while they repeatedly seek exuses to find fault.

  • dotp POTEAU, OK
    Jan. 10, 2012 4:29 p.m.

    I wish if people were going to quote someone, they would at least make SURE the words they are quoting are the actual words that were said. The actual quote is: "As man is, God once was; as God is, Man may become. This is not as far-fetched as it may sound at first. But instead of studying the scriptures to understand why Latter Day Saints might say this, they simply mock it. I have found that people do tend to mock what they don't and don't want to understand. I have said it before, and I'll say it again -- Just because one doesn't believe something doesn't mean that "something" is not true. One does not have to believe the sky is blue for it to be a fact. There was a time when the prevailing belief was that the world was flat and anyone who said it was not was considered a heretic. Learning is good for the soul and learning the truth is even more important.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 4:56 p.m.

    Why listen to people like Bill Maher? Maher is an atheist, constitution hating , socialist that has zero morals to boot. If you wrestle with a pig you're just going to get dirty and the pig loves it regardless. I would hate to see in print the things the Pharisees of Jesus day said about Jesus and his new gospel. We have some of it in the New Testament but I'm sure that is just scratching the surface of the ugliness. Rule of thumb: don't cast your pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet and rend you again....

  • Munk Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 10, 2012 5:09 p.m.

    Oh lighten up.. all of you. Your skin needs to thicken a bit. I can give a list of the top ten anti something comments off the top of my head.

    The more mainstream and popular Mormonism gets... the more it is going to have people attack it. Deal with it and move on.. you are better than that.

  • ElsieM7 VALLEY VILLAGE, CA
    Jan. 10, 2012 5:25 p.m.

    A number of years ago on his old Politically Incorrect show, one of his guests made a disparaging remark about Mormons and Bill Maher shot them a dirty look, like "Don't go there." I admired and appreciated him so much for that. Now, however, it seems Maher has become the standard bearer for all things atheist. He loves to redicule all religious thought. He has found his niche and is enjoying being what he perceives as the popular culture leader of intelligent cynicism. From where I'm standing, he simply looks to be both arrogant and pitiful. I am saddened to see him stoop so low.

  • Stackhouse paradise, nv
    Jan. 10, 2012 5:39 p.m.

    Humanism such as what Bill Maher adheres to is a religion. The prophet of the restoration of this religion to the earth is the late Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

  • wrz L.A., California
    Jan. 10, 2012 7:46 p.m.

    "Mormon theology... DO(es) teach that Mormons will be gods over their own worlds."

    The Bible teaches that Christ's followers will be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. What does 'heir' refer to?

    "Doubt me? God is as man may become and man is as God once was. Sound familiar?"

    God (Christ) indeed was a man at one time (see the Christian Bible's New Testament) and has become/is now Christians' God.

  • Stay the Course Salt Lake City, utah
    Jan. 10, 2012 11:30 p.m.

    J interesting you picked yourself out so quickly my comments are based on reading a number of yours over the last few months that's all also the phrase Ad hominen is used too much on these comment boards

  • Tyler Ray Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 11, 2012 12:35 a.m.

    Thinkman,
    Got kids? Want what's best for them? Everything you have and more? Want them to always learn and grow and be better? So does our heavenly Father. "be ye therefore perfect even as your father which is in heaven is prefect." Sound familiar? It's a commandment from Christ. I believe with God all things are possible and that our potential is limitless. He wouldn't have it any other way. Although none of us are anywhere close to God or his great glory it gives me comfort that God wants me to have the joy that he has.

  • zabivka Orem, UT
    Jan. 11, 2012 12:56 a.m.

    So the question apparently remains: Is it possible without bigotry to love the believer, and at the same time hate the beliefs?

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Jan. 11, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    So, what channel is Bill Maher on? Isn't it something like Comedy Central?

    I used to work with a guy that would get all his news from that station and it really showed. Now he wonders why he is disliked, is in dept up to his ears and doesn't understand what on earth is going on around him. Kind of tells a story.

  • windigo77 SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 11, 2012 10:05 a.m.

    @JeffE - Yes, lets not forget that Joseph Smith violated the constitution when he ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor. Power of the press indeed.

    to the moderator: there is nothing in my comment that violates any of forum rules. It is insanely hypocritical for you to post an article attacking non-Mormons and censor FACTUAL HISTORICAL INFORMATION that is relevant to the discussion.

  • OC64 Edmonton, AB
    Jan. 11, 2012 1:00 p.m.

    I'm confused by some of these comments and how they are considered "anti-mormon"

    I went to the mormon voices webiste to look up the reasoning behind why Christopher Hitchens quote was anti-mormon and the only rationale provided was 332 scholars disagree. I didn't realize that anti-mormon comments had a low qualification threshold.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Jan. 11, 2012 7:24 p.m.

    @OC64

    The 332 scholars answer was in response to Bill Mahrer's comment that Mormonism is the most ridiculous religion. Christopher Hitchen's quote was slanderous in that the word "egregarious" has a negative conotation.

    All of these people are certainly entitled to their opinion but the point being made by the article, whether stated or not is that civility/respect for other human beings with different beliefs seems to be going down the drain these days. It's especially true in these statements about Mormonism.

    I actually feel sorry for some of these folks. Their egos will get the best of them in the end. They really don't know what they are saying... or missing out on. SAd.

  • JonathanPDX Portland, Oregon
    Jan. 12, 2012 12:46 a.m.

    "By any standard, Mormonism is more ridiculous than any other religion" could just as easily be "By any standard, Bill Maher is more ridiculous than any other pseudo-intellectual comedian."

    It's simply a matter of perspective and how much of a reaction you want to get from your audience. Mr Maher is certainly entitled to his opinion, and the fact he is able to broadcast it doesn't make it any more valid, just louder.

    For me, it's the "still, small voice" that makes the greatest impact and bears the greater truth.

  • barbara Carlsbad, CA
    Jan. 12, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    I agree with JonathanPDX. This also reminds me of the blind fellows examining an elephant and describing its characteristics from their limited vantage point.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Jan. 12, 2012 12:35 p.m.

    love to hear Christopher Hitchens' thoughts on this subject now. I think he may be seeing things a little differently now that he is on the other side.

  • crunchem Cedar City, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2012 12:02 a.m.

    "By any standard, Bill Maher is more ridiculous than any other TV hack"

    WOW! so true, and I only changed two words!