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In our opinion: Gambling addiction

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  • taxingthepoor SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 4:24 a.m.

    Can we close down the 401k Casino. It has destroyed my retirement, without having any fun in the process.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:34 a.m.

    I gamble but don't have a gambling problem
    I drink but don't have a drinking problem

    And I am the norm.

    Yes, we can look at the total numbers with gambling or drinking problems and they seem quite large.

    But for the millions who engage in those activities, it is a very small percentage with actual problems.

    People constantly tout personal responsibility and accountability, and reducing government interference in our lives unless it involves things we don't like.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    I'm not opposed to legal gambling although something seems slimy and immoral about governments encouraging it. I absolutely detest state sponsored lotteries - I'm pretty certain we're headed down the wrong road when States are running their own gambling operations (lotteries)
    What I found more disturbing was the article on A3 today where we learned the Obama Administration has awarded 300 million (that we don't have by the way) in "bonus money" to 23 states that identified and enrolled eligible children in Medicaid and CHIP. Way to go states! You have succeeded in addicting more people to welfare! They'll have no sense of self reliance or self worth but they will have extra money to spend in casinos. And you'll get back a portion of that so it's a win all the way around.
    Pardon me if I'm not as excited about this nation's prospects as Kathleen Sebelius.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:28 a.m.

    Part of the reason that gambling has become so pervasive is that rather than general revenue enhancements which conservatives hate, states are looking for more revenue and have found a source. Rather than focusing on the general welfare, the states then become predators on their own people. It has become a user fee, much like tolls on highways instead of raising gas taxes so that all will contribute to the building and maintenance of roads and highways. It is a wrong-headed approach and one that deviates from the underlying philosophy of the founding principles. Such is the way of right wing, narcissism approach to government.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:47 a.m.

    Those poor addicts. Lets face facts. The vast majority of people can handle gambling, drinking, drugs, etc... A small amount have personal issues; often exacerbated by their own personality traits.
    The fact that hard liquor is available and society is not getting up and drinking whiskey from dusk till dawn shows that the vast majority of people make the right decision even when faced with temptation.
    The majority of people do not run to vegas to play or to the border for lottery tickets.
    Lets stop making laws for the minority.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    "Today where we learned the Obama Administration has awarded 300 million (that we don't have by the way) in "bonus money" to 23 states that identified and enrolled eligible children in Medicaid and CHIP. Way to go states! You have succeeded in..allowing some poor children medical treatment they wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise..you've succeeded in allowing some poor families enough money to not have to choose between food and health care.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 8:05 a.m.

    To "taxingthepoor | 4:24 a.m." who said you ever had to enter the 401K casino in the first place. If you are that bad at investing you should have either hired it out or else looked into alternative retirement savings methods. Don't blame the market for your bad choices.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 8:28 a.m.

    @pragmatistforlife: CHIP is a middle class entitlement- I think in some states a family can make close to six figures and qualify so I don't want to hear about "poor kids". Just remember- once the bureaucrats are in charge of your health care (not health insurance) they own you lock, stock, and barrel- and you'll keep voting for them because you don't have any other choice.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    Gamblin
    g is a pernicious evil that should not be sponsored or even supported by the government. Any State which supports gambling jas sold its soul to the devil for 30 pieces of silver.

    Far too many States are addicted to revenue generated from gambling. These States use this money to fund left wing entitlement programs, which just perpetuates the problem.

    Gambling States need to realize that gambling results in costs that are much higher than the revenues obtained. The costs of providing law enforcement, fire protection, and sanitation services far outweighs any revenue.

  • vallejo saltlake city, utah
    Jan. 3, 2012 9:17 a.m.

    Dont make it a Habit?
    Ive meet a few that over spend then they loss alot more.
    As they return home hear nothing but complaints and even bigger problems.

    yeah right
    Have a good time Limit your money,
    yawn,,but be careful how much a gambler spends!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    More money is lost, and more lives are ruined from WallStreet and Banks GAMBLING with other people's money than has ever been ruined from "evil" Casinos.

    But somehow the Right-Wing cottles WallStreet and Banks, even giving them subsides and hand-outs and calling their gambling "legal", and good.

    Now, let's throw in the greed, pride, and control of the Gadianton Robbers.
    As I recall, they also turned the laws in their favor....

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    I like the Deseret News editorial boards liberal stand on this issue. The taxes that governments receive from casinos look a lot like a bribe. The casinos cannibalize the economy, they create the false impression that one can get something for nothing (a lot of people bought into this with getting big housing loans in a housing bubble), they take advantage of gullible people, they take advantage of gambling addicts and they produce nothing.

    But the governments permit it because they get a bribe from the casinos in the form of contributions to the tax coffers. Not quite as slimy as a bribe in the personal bank account, but it still stinks.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 3, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    Red State pride " your household income can be no greater than 200% of the federal poverty level. For a family of 3, this works out to an annual income of about $31,340, or a monthly income of about $2,612." Wow, that is really rich...and oh so close to to $100,000.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    red state pride | 7:19 a.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    Are you also opposed to medicare?
    What is the difference between medicare and CHIP/Medicaid?
    There are those who are on medicare that are Billionaires/Millionaires
    Those on medicare have come no where close to paying in what they are not taking out of the fund.
    after maybe 3 months to 2 years all the money the paid into the medicare fund has been paid back.
    Everything after that is pure welfare.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    Oh ya -- and forgot to mention the legalization of the "Insurance" Corporations form of Gambling.

    Gambling against getting in a wreck, getting sick, or dying.....
    And lobbying Legislation, Forcing everytone to buy it THEIR "plans" as a business but not considering it gambling.

    Again, I shake my head at the Right's continued support of Corporation's legalized and Forced comply to a Companies gambling rackett, whilst demonizing any other form of Chance.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    States have the right and responsibility to limit destructive behavior. We regulate alcohol, tobacco and other harmful substances. Why not tax gambling so that the negative societal consequences are funded among gamblers. They have the "fun" while the rest of us pay for social services for those whose lives are ruined by compulsive gambling. People don't want government interference, but when they are devastated by not wearing motorcycle helmets or gambling away their mortgage payments, they are the first to cry for help.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    Did gambling ruin someone's life? Or did someone ruin their life by gambling. Now change out gambling with any other word. People are responsible for their actions, no one else. Choices made by people shape their lives. Gambling is NOT a disease, it won't ruin your life. You however, can ruin your own life with COUNTLESS things.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 11:58 a.m.

    Nothing is preventing people from Utah; going to Nevada, and Wyoming to gamble, the negative effects to our state are no less.
    What we miss out on; is the money these state receive from Utahans; who go out of state to gamble
    Most of those who gamble are not addicts; they are just poor at math.
    I do find it interesting that for drug addictions; people go to jail/prison. We force them into court ordered treatment.
    It can be argued that gambling; is just as damaging as far as increased crime, suicide, murder, child neglect ect.
    I am in most cases opposed to sending people to prison for addiction. Gambling and drugs are both addictive, and the best way to deal with the addiction is treatment.
    I just find it interesting the different way we deal with gambling addiction, as opposed to drug addiction.
    Mostly this is an argument against sending those who are addicted to drugs to prison; it just does not make good economic, or moral sense to me.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 3, 2012 1:20 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal | 10:02 a.m." you realize that your beloved Democrats have given just as much, if not more to the Banks and Wall Street than the Republicans have.

    Remember George Soros and Warren Buffet, they are some of the people on Wall Street that have done what you claim. They are also leaders of the liberal movement that you love so much.

    There are a couple of questions that I would love for you to answer:

    First, why is that you refuse to see that Wall Street has purchased the Democrat party?

    Second, what has changed under Obama? So far his programs and ideas are the same as Bush's, but only differ in magnitude.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    Satan's plan was to use force to get people to live righteously. Outlawing vices (gambling, drinking, drugs, prostitution, etc...) emulates this plan. These activities, in and of themselves, harm no one else, except, perhaps, those involved in them. Casino Gambling isn't THAT much different than buying commodity futures. Moderate drinking and pot smoking isn't any riskier than being 100 lbs overweight with high cholesterol. Spending $100 on a woman's concert ticket and her dinner in order to have sex isn't really any different than just giving her the cash directly.

    The above shows that outlawing vices really doesn't do any real good.

    40 years ago, I asked my mom why she'd spend $400 during a weekend in Vegas instead of doing to San Francisco. She said that she'd end up spending the same amount and having less fun. She fully expected to lose the $400. Sometimes she'd win some and not blow it all. She sometimes one big and came home with the $400 or even more. The bottom line was that it was exciting and entertaining, not trying to get rich.

    Sure, states should tax casinos to cover ALL added costs they impose on society. Let people choose.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 1:54 p.m.

    red state pride | 7:19 a.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    so you are against the:

    300,000,000 (three hundred million) dollars that was sent to states to provide health care for children. This you call welfare.

    but you are ok with the:

    1,200,000,000,000 (1.2 trillion) of taxpayer money, that was given away to banks, and wallstreet?

    personally, I am less bothered with my money being used to give immunzations to a babies; then giving 400x more money to billionares, to buy another house in switzerland.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 3, 2012 3:35 p.m.

    To "lds4gaymarriage | 1:53 p.m." actually there is a big difference between gambling and investing in commodities or stocks. With the purchase of stocks or commodities you are investing money in a business, and are helping people to work. With gambling you are trying to get something for nothing.

    Since, as your name indicates, you don't follow the prophets in all things, lets educate you a bit.

    Read "The Evils of Gambling" from the 1972 Ensign by Dallin H. Oaks.

    Also read "The growth of gambling" at the LDS Newsroom from July 30, 1994.

    It is sad that your Mom didn't listen to the voice of the prophets. Just think of what good she could have done witht he money she blew in Vegas.

    To "VIDAR | 1:54 p.m." you realize that the poeple who buy the lottery tickets are also typically poor people who cannot really afford to keep losing that money month after month. Why do you think Lotteries are often referred to as "Stupid Taxes"? (Hopefully you will answer something along the lines of people being bad at math.)

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 4:12 p.m.

    "More money is lost, and more lives are ruined from WallStreet and Banks GAMBLING with other people's money than has ever been ruined from "evil" Casinos."

    Care to back that up with facts? Or are you all about rhetoric?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 4:38 p.m.

    'Care to back that up with facts?' - joe5 | 4:12 p.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    I will.

    *'Bush signs $700 billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum - 10/03/08

    WASHINGTON President Bush quickly signed into law a far-reaching $700 billion bill to bail out the nation's tottering financial industry, calling it "essential to helping America's economy" weather the storm.

    All these 'moral' arguments about:

    Pornography
    Drinking
    Gambling.

    But Utah:

    *Utah No. 1 in online porn subscriptions, report says By Elaine Jarvik 03/03/09 DSNews

    *'Utah DUI arrests DECLINE despite looser liquor law' - By BROCK VERGAKIS - AP - Published by SL Tribune - 10/11/10

    And yet Utah stands to PROFIT....GREATLY from these very same 'immoral' actions.

    Another example?

    Cigarettes.

    Want to have 'moral' examples?

    Don't have STATE RUN liquor stores!

  • TheWalker Saratoga Springs, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:13 p.m.

    I lived in Las Vegas for several years and there were endless stories of people that not only had their lives ruined but committed suicide as a result of their gambling problem. When people started declaring bankruptcy to get out of gambling debts, in 1990 the state made it a CRIMINAL OFFENSE not to pay debts owed to casinos, effectively replacing the mob in enforcing casino debts. As a result, failing to pay your bill on a gambling debt will very likely land you in a Las Vegas jail. Any debt over $250 is considered a felony, and the Nevada DA can and does extradite out-of-state visitors for unpaid gambling debts.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:16 p.m.

    Pasgan: So you believe those "facts" prove that MORE money is lost and MORE peoples live are ruined by Wall Street and Banks gambling than casinos. Yet you did not even prove that one life is ruined much less that MORE are ruined.

    I've noticed that you seem to have a tendency for random synapses to fire than to be able to participate in a focused and intelligent discussion.

    Your disjointed and irrelevant response provides more evidence of that.

  • Stackhouse paradise, nv
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:16 p.m.

    "More money is lost, and more lives are ruined from WallStreet and Banks GAMBLING with other people's money than has ever been ruined from "evil" Casinos." Lds liberal. Open your eyes. The democrats are just as guilty as the republicans for propping up the banks and big pharma with our tax dollars. Both parties are owned by their master handlers Goldman Sachs. Once you lose your faith in big government you will see them all for what they are, charlatans.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:50 p.m.

    'Yet you did not even prove that one life is ruined much less that MORE are ruined.' - joe5 | 5:16 p.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    The question was:

    "More money is lost, and more lives are ruined from WallStreet and Banks GAMBLING with other people's money...' - joe5 | 4:12 p.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    I'm not sure who you were quoting.

    So, the question was, are lives ruined from Wall Street gambling with OTHER people's money.

    I gave an example...of $700 billion dollars worth, of other peoples money.

    Signed by a Republican Preisdent, George W. Bush.

    This more of the 'personal accountability' I keep hearing about?

    While I am used to criticism, let's be clear. Of the two of us...

    I am the ONLY person, who presented any facts in regard to the topic.

    Your tactic was to claim it was a 'disjointed and irrelevant response'.

    A personal jab.

    And based on NOTHING, but rhetoric.

    If your not going to do anything but criticize, you have LESS grounds to claim facts are 'disjointed'...

    when you present zero, yourself.

    As such, you have no point, to make.

    Good day.

  • Kiyo Washougal, Washington
    Jan. 3, 2012 5:53 p.m.

    Re: lds4gaymarriage...I'm all in favor of saving people from themselves...Sometimes others are the only friends we've got..."Friends don't let friends drive drunk."

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 6:11 p.m.

    @Kiyo
    So true, note the saying isn't friends don't let friend drink. Friends don't let friends gamble their life away.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:20 p.m.

    To "Pagan | 5:50 p.m. " and how have things changed under your "sainted" Obama?

    Lets see what St. Obama did with the $700 million bailout. According to "Bush requests bank bailout funds" in the Washington Times from January 13, 2009 we read "President Bush on Monday formally asked Congress for the second half of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout package at the behest of President-elect Barack Obama" So Bush got the bill approved, then Obama decided that he was better than Bush at spending half of the money.

    Since you are so concerned with accountability, why do you hold Bush solely accountable when Obama used Bush to get $350 million to squander?

    In March 2009 Obama gave us the "Public-Private Investment Program" which its potential cost of $1 Trillion.

    So, tell us, what has changed under Obama? He is risking even more of your money than Bush did, yet he seems to be your patron saint.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:29 p.m.

    @vidar- the point is... there is no 300 million to give- it's either printed or borrowed from future generations who will pay it back with either higher taxes or a lower standard of living. They haven't had a chance to decide- you are deciding for them how much their dollars will be worth or how much they will pay in taxes. Do you think that's moral? How much of your personal income are you willing to commit since you are so benevolent with the money of the children yet to be born.
    As far as the TARP bailout- I was against it- most banks didn't need it or in many cases didn't even want it- it was jammed down their throats. That said- excluding Fannie and Freddie and AIG it's been paid back with interest so the FED made money (and Obama and Pelosi promptly spent the profits).
    As long as we're on the subject - Wall Street has given more to the current Pres than all Republican Presidential candidates combined so think on that a bit....

  • Vala Harlem, Montana
    Jan. 3, 2012 7:48 p.m.

    Deseret News, Thank you for telling it like it is.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 7:47 a.m.

    joe5 | 4:12 p.m. Jan. 3, 2012
    South Jordan, UT
    "More money is lost, and more lives are ruined from WallStreet and Banks GAMBLING with other people's money than has ever been ruined from "evil" Casinos."

    Care to back that up with facts? Or are you all about rhetoric?

    =========================

    Jeepers, Creepers...Open your eyes man!

    Casinos and Gambling have always been around.
    Good Times and Bad times...NO effect on the National Economy.

    Yet -- The ENTIRE U.S. Economy has melted down now not once, but TWICE -- and effected each and every Aemrican -- all due to the greed and excesses of WallStreet and Banks....not to mention the $$$ Trillions wated this time around with needless foreign wars.

    Rhetoric?, hardly.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 8:50 a.m.

    Redshirt1701
    "lds4gaymarriage." actually there is a big difference between gambling and investing in commodities or stocks
    LDS4
    I mentioned commodity futures which are indeed gambling...but you get to keep your recommend.

    RS
    Since, as your name indicates, you don't follow the prophets in all things..
    LDS4
    I follow official Church doctrine. Outlawing gambling is using force to get people to live morally. Thats Satans Plan. We are to use kindness, gentleness, meekness and love unfeigned to encourage people to live righteously. The prophets have said that government is force and force harms agency.

    RS
    It is sad that your Mom didn't listen to the voice of the prophets. Just think of what good she could have done with the money she blew in Vegas.
    LDS4
    Sure, she could have vacationed in Frisco as I suggested and come home without the $400, having spent it in SF, and been less happy. How is that any better?

    Kiyo
    lds4gaymarriage...I'm all in favor of saving people from themselves...
    LDS4
    Keeping someone from driving drunk...sure, but forcing them to live per Gods morals was Satans Plan. Government is Force.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 9:28 a.m.

    LDS LIberal: Your claim was quantitative, not qualitative. Yet you have only provided qualitative evidence. You said MORE lives ruined (whatever you mean by the word "ruined"). That means numbers. That's all I'm asking for. Give me two numbers to support your claim:
    1) A number of lives that have been "ruined" by gambling
    2) A number of lives that have been "ruined" by Wall Street and banks.

    The problem is that you can't do that, isn't it?

    By the way, "everybody" is not an answer. My life has not been ruined by Wall Street, banks, or anything else. My life is actually pretty nice.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:07 a.m.

    'That means numbers. That's all I'm asking for.' - joe5 | 9:28 a.m. Jan. 4, 2012

    Which, you are unable to provide yourself.

    As such, you ask questions to the person you are trying, in vain, to debate AGAINST.

    As such, once again....

    you have no point, to make.

  • joe5 South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    Pagan: I don't know why you ar butting into someone else's discussion. But I'll try to explain in simple words.

    In debate, it is incumbent on the person making the claim to verify his claim with evidence. LDS Liberal made a claim, a claim that I believe is outrageous and preposterous and completely false. I'm challenging his claim. It is up to him to prove it.

    As challenger, I am not making any claim at all. There is nothing that I need to prove.

    School children might reply to a challenge by saying "yes sir" or "is too" but adults should be able to provide the evidence to support what they say, especially in a case where it is stated as overt fact. Am I supposed to believe LDS Liberal simply because he said it was so? Am I supposed to ignore all the other inaccurate statements he has made on these message boards and just concede that he must be correct on this one because he used rhetoric and exclamation points?

    I think not.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 10:55 a.m.

    'As challenger, I am not making any claim at all.' - joe5 | 10:34 a.m. Jan. 4, 2012

    Isn't that what I've been saying? :)

    As a challenger in a debate, you have every right to question the facts presented by the incumbent, however after a point that is ALL you are doing.

    You present no counter-facts. No counterpoints. No information to DISCREDIT the claim in the first place.

    As such, you are NOT factually making a claim.

    I'm glad we agree.

    Good day to you.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 4, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    I haven't had any luck with this forum. I guess I shouldn't throw too many stones at those who look down from high horses.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Jan. 5, 2012 11:07 a.m.

    red state pride | 7:29 p.m. Jan. 3, 2012

    I guess my response to this would be: if you are hemorrhaging from your femoral artery, you probably are less worried with the paper cut on your finger.
    I am upset about the debt that is being run up. However the two biggest things contributing to the national debt is social security, and Medicare. We spend over a trillion dollars a year on these no longer fully funded programs.
    Medicare is one of the most inefficient and most abused programs, billions of dollars is wasted each year in overcharges, unnecessary charges, and outright fraud.
    Now 300 million to me is an unimaginable amount of money; however when we take it in context of the national budget; its not even a bump on a log.
    25,000,000,000 money that no ones know where it was spent: unaccounted federal money
    I could go on, and on, about all the waste in government.
    By making Medicare more efficient, with less fraud, we could take the money saved, and fund basic medical care for all the nations children, and have money left over.

  • shark Buena Vista, VA
    Jan. 6, 2012 10:23 a.m.

    That should be casinos not casino's, last line of paragraph 7.