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New study confirms many LDS stereotypes

Research does not offer startling new info about Mormons

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  • BroJoseph Ogden, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:59 a.m.

    Excuse me....but there are more LDS members outside the US and they happen to represent the Polynesian and South American and Islanders and Europeans that do not tend to be "mostly white", not financially well off and would find Republicanism quite "unethical"
    For instance in Australia where there is over 200,000 members,most are appalled that Americans fail to assist the poor and needy when it comes to medical assistance regardless of income.
    English, Canadian and Australian members enjoy health cover for all regardless of income status. Someone please look beyond the Utah Republican mentality and look to the whole too see the the bigger picture!

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:27 a.m.

    "A new study coming out of Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., indicates that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are predominantly Republican, overwhelmingly white, well-educated, prosperous and have larger-than-average families."

    In this season of joy, I hate to be persnickety, but the opening statement of this article is somewhat misleading. Later in the article we read the actual name of the article "The Mormon Population of the United States 1990-2008: An Analysis of Socio-Demographic Trends and Regional Differences,"

    So, what the study is about is Mormons in the United States, not just "members of the Church of Jesus Christ" in general. Certainly the vast majority of church members in the Mormon rich countries in Central and South America would not be considered "white" and many of them, perhaps a majority, are not well-educated or prosperous. And of course, they would not be "Republican" nor would their political views nessecarily be considered as conservative as American Republicans.

    I guess my hope is that the Deseret News is not trying to use a study done about American Mormons to describe ALL Mormons. That's all. Thanks for listening and Merry Christmas.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:29 a.m.

    The stereotypes are holding back the progress of the Church and will continue to do so until the Church becomes more diverse, particularly politically. This over identification with the GOP is, I am certain, a product of events in the last 30 years or so, and really took flight with Orrin Hatch and the GOP using Church affiliation as a measure of being a good Church member for their own political purposes. The leadership can continue to empathize with the GOP, or they can be more assertive that the GOP is not the preferred political party in order to advance the interests of the Church and spread the Gospel. Inaction is a choice to stay the same.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:31 a.m.

    I would counter with the opinion that I bet there are way more American members of the LDS Church who consider themselves independent voters.

    The Republican affiliation might have been true in the past, but I personally know so many, myself at the top of the list,who have seriously distanced themselves from being associated with so much of what is considered 'Republican' these days--or anything to do with the Tea Party, or Glenn Beck, or talk radio personalities,or evangelicals and others who believe they own and speak for the Republican Party,or rabid illegal alien haters, or those rabid on other topics....

    I could go on and on.

    Count me as an Independent.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:43 a.m.

    Some of those stereotypes are not correct.

    Mormon women in Utah have had to work outside the home for decades because Utah's pay rates are generally lower than outside the state, but the cost of living here is on a par with many other states. Having lived here all my life, I've seen this firsthand.

    Many Mormons are well educated, yes, but certainly not an "overwhelming" number of them. Which demographic was surveyed? Only those with college educations? There are just as many blue collar workers here in Utah as there are in other states and religions. Who is it that you think waits your tables, unclogs your toilets, checks you out at the supermarket? These people are certainly not all non-Mormons; they're probably a ratio of Mormons/non-Mormons that matches the state's diversity (appx. 57% Mormon, 43% non-Mormon).

    This study is interesting, but I don't think its entirely accurate.

  • NT Springville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:25 a.m.

    @Esquire - ever consider that the Church may not be looking for "progress" as you and the rest of the world might define it?

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    Folks, don't you all realize that it is the Christian religion that identifies with conservative values. The Mormons are not the only religion to be strongly with the GOP. It is the liberal secular anti-religious values and attitude emaninating from the Democrat party that has driven many religious people to the GOP. Mormons and Christians find it hard to get cozy with the party of pro abortion, pro same sex marriage, and pro just about any human behavior that might offend the senses of average God fearing people. You guys have put the cart before the horse. If the Democrat Party wants conservative religious people to support them then the party has to become less liberal. It is the Democrats who have been on the move in America and that move is Left. Meanwhile, we religious people just stay where our values have always been.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:35 a.m.

    I am a Mormon and I have never been told or asked to vote Republican by any church leader! Perhaps more than anything else, this study says something about how Mormons view themselves, their family values and the values of the different political parties? Merry Christmas!

  • PGVikingDad Pleasant Grove, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:38 a.m.

    Esquire, you're just plain wrong. The Church has been, is, and always will be silent on the topic of political affiliation. I have never been asked my party of preference by any member of Church leadership nor as qualification for any position or benefit within the Church. Not once. Ever.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    'At the same time, the findings suggest "the Mormon community has an above average interest in politics," with a higher percentage of Mormons (90 percent in Utah and 84 percent overall) registered as voters, compared with 78 percent among non-Mormon adults.' - Article

    Gasp!

    No! (Sarcasm)

    *'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' - By Lynn Arave - By Dsnews - 02/03/09

    'Proposition 8 was a ballot measure in California last November that changed the state constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry.'

    That being said...

    one should not use stereotypes...

    as a basis for individual relationships.

  • Be Practical Sandy, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:05 a.m.

    As long as the Democratic Party is perceived as emphasizing Choice over Life and Entitlement over Self-Sufficiency, most Mormons will continue to identify with the Republican Party of their own volition.

  • kokua KAYSVILLE, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:06 a.m.

    Hey Chet & Char cool to see you and the kids, nice way to get out of sending Christmas Cards !

    It appears that this rather narrow study has gotten under the skin of some hyper-sensitive LDS members. It is curious to me how some small anecdotal sampling of the LDS faith can get a rise out of folks.

    Oh well some peoples kids.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:11 a.m.

    Windsor: Me, too.

    I find it REALLY hard to believe that this survey of 50K people in the 48 contiguous states is accurate. Certainly not a 0.5% margin of error. That is ridiculous! We need some details on the mechanics of the survey. To be most accurate, the same percentage of the population in each state needs to be surveyed, not hte same number of people. Also, Excluding Alaska and Hawaii, a predominately LDS state skews both the racial and the political numbers. Are they no longer in the USA? What about Puerto Rico? They are American Citizens, and I bet the majority of Mormons there are not white.

    Finally, this passage cannot be confirmed with such a small sample size:
    " According to the survey, 3.2 million Americans identified themselves as members of the LDS Church in 2008. Official LDS Church statistics indicate that number was actually about 5.9 million. The difference is attributed to the fact that the church counts total members on record, while the researchers only count those who actually identify themselves as church members."

    It occurs to me that this might be some Stats students doing a bad job on a term project.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:21 a.m.

    'As long as the Democratic Party is perceived as emphasizing Choice over Life and Entitlement over Self-Sufficiency, most Mormons will continue to identify with the Republican Party of their own volition.' - Be Practical | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    As such, they would then...

    *'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11

    *'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

    " (Robert) Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,' and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. ... Asked by Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No.' "

    ...Live with that consequence.

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    As an academic (social science) survey study, it was fine. It is what it is. Get to know a mormon, if you want to know what mormons are really like.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:23 a.m.

    This survey reeks of a badly-written master's thesis.

    Over 50% of LDS Church membership is non-white. And I'm certain that well over 50% of LDS Church membership is not "prosperous". Nor is the majority of LDS Church membership Republican (in the countries where the majority of latter-day saints live, there is no Republican party). In the U.S. this might be the case, but the survey didn't say that. If this study was intended to be a demographic analysis of just American LDS, it should have stated that.

    And why did the survey stop where it did? No statistics about Jell-o consumption or minivan ownership?

  • Ms Molli Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    John20000 | 8:23 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    Cedar Hills, UT
    As an academic (social science) survey study, it was fine. It is what it is. Get to know a mormon, if you want to know what mormons are really like.

    @John, I would suggest you get to know several mormons if you want to know what mormons are really like -- since we are talking about statistics! And get to know them on a day other than Sunday. People are often very different on church days than the other 6 days of the week (and that applies to other religious groups as well).

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    Re: Pagan | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    The LDS Church teaches chastity and moral cleanliness. Correct me if I'm wrong but that was also what Jesus taught. If Jesus walked the earth today his teachings would be unpopular with many who consider themselves Christians.

  • LDS Cedar City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:46 a.m.

    If this study and interpretation are accurate, then we Latter-day Saints have a lot of work to do.

    With such a large majority of US Saints identifying with the Republican Party, there is an obvious disconnect with the advice of the leadership. We are advised often to maintain a neutral position regarding US politics. That is for several reasons:

    We are a worldwide church and we must live at a Gospel-level, not a national political level. We must embrace social and economic assistance to those in need. That should come from self, family, GOVERNMENT, and lastly Church. We support government assistance programs.

    The Gospel teaches how enslaving materialism becomes. Examples are the meetinghouse parking lots full of expensive SUV's and Mitt Romney's 3 mansions and incredible wealth. The Saints worldwide are far more modest, and even impoverished. We must give away our wealth that others can be provided for. Meeting their basic needs (food,shelter,medical) is essential to liberate their spirits so they can embrace the Gospel.

    No political party or movement represents the Gospel teachings. Yes, there are certain elements aligned with our teachings, like the GOP opposing abortion or the Democratic party supporting social assistance. But no party reflects the Teachings.

    Thus we need to rise above party identity and think and act aligned with the Gospel.

  • GoGetter Sandy, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:47 a.m.

    This Trinity College needs to work on their researching techniques... there are more mormons outside of the US than inside it.

  • Be Practical Sandy, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:58 a.m.

    @Pagan 8:21 a.m.

    It's a good thing that a MAJORITY of Republicans don't care to what religion a candidate belongs. If Romney gets the nomination, then the name calling will really begin from the left.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:06 a.m.

    I think most are missing the point. Yes, while we do match up to some stereo types very well (mostly white church - BTW religion is still one of the most segregated aspects of our country still - so not a surprising factoid), in other aspects we aren't as different as we like to beleive we are.

    For example, family size 4.2 for LDS households, 3.7 for non-lds. Not a huge difference. This hugely dispells the differnce most image by the old 15 passenger van showing up to church with kids streaming out of it.

    Take the political side as well. While yes, the church is represented by 59 percent Republicans, there is also 41 percent who are not. If you faactor in for the fact that Utah is hugely Republican and it infact represents an outlyer, that would lead one to the conclusion that the split is more evenly distributed outside of Utah. It means that at least 4 out the ten people on the pew next to you are not the same brand of conservatives that you would believe all members must be by reading post here on DN.

    We're not so different as we believe.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:07 a.m.

    Mountanman | 7:35 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    Hayden, ID
    I am a Mormon and I have never been told or asked to vote Republican by any church leader! Perhaps more than anything else, this study says something about how Mormons view themselves, their family values and the values of the different political parties? Merry Christmas!

    @Mountanman, I am a mormon, very active in the church, and a new transplant to Utah. I have been told by several members of the church that they don't see how I can be a democrat and a good mormon. I never heard those words from any mormons outside of Utah where I have lived in the past. Just letting you know that if you, too, lived in Utah, your mormon experience here might be quite different insofar as politics are concerned.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    To LDS - we are never advised to maintain a neutral position regarding US politics. We are often encouraged to search our conscience and be actively engaged in electing leaders and setting policy that reflects the promptings of the conscience. The policy letters read from the pulpit every election cycle clearly indicate we should be actively involved, but not to presume to speak for the Church or claim its political approval. The LDS Church remains politically neutral because they recognize that neither party contains the fullness of the gospel and are not partnered with the Church in salvational purpose.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:17 a.m.

    @Kami;

    I think you need to visit Idaho. The Mormon experience in Idaho is twin to the Mormon experience in Utah (largely).

    Just sayin'.

  • PGVikingDad Pleasant Grove, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    As a bizarre sidebar, my daughter was just showing me this exact photo of the Poultons on her cellphone a few days ago. Strangely, the article said nothing about how cute she thinks the kid on the far left has become.

  • Andy in Sandy Sandy, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:21 a.m.

    You have to understand the study parameters and take it as it is (overall a poor study and not well thought out). There should have been more information about the study parameters provided so we could more accurately judge the validity of the study. With a sampling of only 53k, I have a hard time believing the margin of error at only 0.5%.

    I too feel that DN mis-lead us by implying LDS (in general and not contiguous US only) in the title.

    Since it was such a poor study, it doesn't change my way of thinking very much.

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:23 a.m.

    DSB | 9:14 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    Cedar Hills, UT
    "The LDS Church remains politically neutral because they recognize that neither party contains the fullness of the gospel and are not partnered with the Church in salvational purpose"

    Not true, the LDS church remains politically neutral and reminds its members that it is politically neutral in order to ensure its position of not having to pay income tax. That is the law -- it MUST be politically neutral. It may support issues, but it may NOT support any political candidate or political party. Believe me, the IRS would be all over this if it had evidence to the contrary.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:29 a.m.

    'Re: Pagan | 8:05 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    The LDS Church teaches chastity and moral cleanliness. Correct me if I'm wrong but that was also what Jesus taught.' - Rifleman | 8:42 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    rifleman, you just used the SOURCE, to support a symptom.

    You used Jesus Christ, as SUPPORT for LDS teachings...to support LDS teachings.

    Not that the LDS teachings are based of...Jesus Christ.

    As you can provide evidence for neither, they are both invalid.

    Another way to explain this is...using LDS teachings to support Jesus Christ...

    is like using a Comic Book...to support Superman.

    LDS teachings are designed to support Jesus Chirst. You can't go BACK and claim that the first support the second...again.

    That, is circular reasoning.

    As for marriage:

    Kim Kardashain, 72 day marriage.
    Britney Spears, 55 hour marriage.
    Bristol Palin, child outside of marriage.

    'Moral Cleanliness' is so abstract and so UNatainable it is to be realized...it can never be achieved.

    Not to mention the fact, chastity is typically used...until marriage.

    Can LGBT marry in Utah Rifleman?

    I didn't think so.

    Good day.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:30 a.m.

    @ m.g. scott | 7:35 & Rifleman

    " don't you all realize that it is the Christian religion that identifies with conservative values"

    "The LDS Church teaches chastity and moral cleanliness.. If Jesus walked the earth today his teachings would be unpopular with many who consider themselves Christians"

    As an LDS raised in South America, I have never been able to understand how LDS/ Republicans (U.S.A.) can reconcile their belief in the gospel with the selfish and dehumanizing values of the cold capitalism preached by that party.

    Yes, I agree that the gospel teaches moral, cleanliness and other conservative values.

    But the gospel also teaches a sense of community and concern for those who have less. The gospel also teaches free-agency and not forcing individuals to do what is right. (whatever that is)

    Self-determination in our personal salvation is one of our biggest gifts.

    When you try to legislate your beliefs to impose them in others you are not following Christ.

    Many members of the KKK claim to follow Christ and vote Republican.Check David Duke, That my brothers, I'm sure is not a company we would like to keep.

    Rifleman I agree with your assertions.

  • Morgan Duel Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:33 a.m.

    Seems there is an old saying that Goes something like, "If you keep the Commandments and do what is right you will prosper." Prosper means you will grow stronger, thrive, and flourish.

    Does a person who lives in iniquity really thrive? Maybe for a short time, but, in the end that type of life will catch up to them. You see it in the media everyday where people are killing each other over everything from petty arguments to drugs. Prospering does not mean hardening your heart against others it means taking care of those you love, teaching them what is right and making the world better.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:35 a.m.

    Which goes to show that Democrats are wasting their time trying to get Mormons votes - let the Mormons have their one party Republican sustaining votes.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:43 a.m.

    I don't know why people are upset about this survey. Obviously it is of U.S. Mormons.

    Pew also conducted a study, "A Portrait of Mormons in the U.S."
    Some findings:
    "The Mormon population in the U.S. is heavily concentrated in the West (76%). In fact, roughly one-third of all American Mormons (35%) live in Utah, the state founded by its early leaders. An additional 13% live in California while 7% reside in Idaho, 5% in Nevada and 4% each in Oregon and Arizona. Only about one-in-ten Mormons (12%) live in the South (including 4% who reside in Texas), 7% live in the Midwest and just 4% reside in the Northeast.

    Nearly nine-in-ten Mormons in the U.S. (86%) are white, compared with 71% of the general population. Just 3% of Mormons are African-American and 7% are Latino.

    Mormons are very politically conservative. Six-in-ten Mormons identify as conservative, about three-in-ten (27%) say they consider themselves moderate and only one-in-ten identify as liberal. "

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:53 a.m.

    @ m.g. scott

    " don't you all realize that it is the Christian religion that identifies with conservative values"

    3/4 of this nation are Christian so there's gotta be a large segment of Christians that vote Democratic. For instance, Catholics are pretty 50-50 in voting because they match up with Democrats on economic policies.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    So, ClarkKent - show me where other religious organizations deliver periodic policy statements from the pulpit that so strongly prohibit the use of their church or its name in taking political stands. Many religious organizations across the nation skirt the edge of political neutrality, and others cross the line so blatantly I don't even understand how they maintain their tax-free status.

    The church has no legal requirement to have those statements read at all. So don't give me the baloney that the LDS Church only does it to maintain its tax-free status. If they wanted, they could engage in much more stealth political advocacy before even coming close to what others get away with.

    The church remains politically neutral because they have come to understand that politics is not their purpose. I'll concede that staying well within the non-profit guidelines may be a piece of the motivation, but I do not believe it's the overriding consideration.

  • srw Riverton, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:00 a.m.

    LDS, I agree with your conclusion:
    "Thus we need to rise above party identity and think and act aligned with the Gospel."

    But this statement is false:
    "With such a large majority of US Saints identifying with the Republican Party, there is an obvious disconnect with the advice of the leadership. We are advised often to maintain a neutral position regarding US politics."

    It is true that the Church remains neutral, and the leaders often remind us of that (for example, to prevent political endorsements over the pulpit). But they don't suggest that individuals maintain a neutral position on politics.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    Re: marxist | 9:35 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    "let the Mormons have their one party Republican sustaining votes"

    Most Mormons believe in the sanctity of life and believe in personal responsibility. Until the Democrats stop preaching the virtues of abortion they will remain a minority for those in Utah who vote their conscience.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:13 a.m.

    More from the Pew Study (2009):

    Mormons are less likely than the population overall to support the government doing more to help the needy. Among the general public, two-thirds (62%) say the government should do more for the needy, while only about half of Mormons (49%) say this.

    On the question of morality, Mormons favor a larger role for government. A majority (54%) says government should do more to protect morality, with a smaller number (39%) saying they worry the government is too involved in the issue of morality.
    Among the general population, the proportions are opposite - a narrow majority (52%) says government is too involved.

    Political and social views are linked with church attendance among Mormons, as among the general population. Those who attend services at least once a week are more likely to be Republican (73% vs. 39%) and oppose legal abortion (78% vs. 44%). The same is true with regard to opinion on the size of government; among weekly attenders, 61% support a smaller government while 31% prefer a larger government, and among less-frequent attenders, just 37% prefer a smaller government while 53% prefer a bigger government.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    @DSB
    "The church remains politically neutral because"

    because enough members can't seem to pay attention to it and will deride the political belies of liberals in the church. The church would have an interest in not losing liberal members. A gallup survey of LDS members found 79% activity overall but for LDS liberals activity was 50%. Seeing as liberals only were 8% of LDS members in the poll, that means only ~4% of LDS members are active and liberal.

  • my two cents worth Ridgefield, WA
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    Interesting that 59% say they are Republican. That was amazing to me. I had a stereotypical thought that the number would be much higher. That means there are 41% of us that are not claiming to be Republican. Wow! I can come out of the "non-Republican" closet at church, then. Great news!

  • Sammybigdog ALPINE, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:45 a.m.

    Above average interest in politics yet one of lowest rates of actual voters. Hard to explain that one.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 10:50 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil
    (F)amily size 4.2 for LDS households, 3.7 for non-lds. Not a huge difference. This hugely dispells the differnce most image by the old 15 passenger van showing up to church with kids streaming out of it.
    LDS4
    The 4.2 MAY be low. LDS kids marry young creating a 2 person household rather than staying in their parents' homes making those homes even larger. LDS live longer so there should be more households with an elderly couples or widow(er)s. These too bring the average size down.

    LDS
    No political party or movement represents the Gospel teachings.
    LDS4
    Both the Dems and GOP violate the principle of Agency by advocating government force in promoting their moral views. Dems want our money and the GOP wants our obedience to Blue Laws/ Vice laws. Truthseeker quotes the Pew Study, On the question of morality, Mormons favor a larger role for government. A majority (54%) says government should do more to protect morality. IOW, use force so that not one is lost. Hmmm. Libertarianism enshrines agency by letting people do as they wish providing no objective harm is forced on others. True freedom is the libertarian creed.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    At this moment Newt Gingrich is the frontrunner in the Republican race. If he is able to maintain the momentum he may win the Republican nomination.

    It seems that based on what we know of Mr. Gingrich, his personal history does not support a very moral or clean way of life (to LDS standards).

    If Mr. Gingrich is chosen as Republican candidate for President in 2012. What will be the political position of LDS Republicans?

    I ask this question with genuine intellectual curiosity. Please share your thoughts.

    Thank you!

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:07 a.m.

    Re: my two cents worth | 10:37 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    "Wow! I can come out of the "non-Republican" closet at church"

    Most people leave politics at the door when they enter a house of worship. Its a sign of maturity.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    Speaking of stereotypes...the liberal left wants everyone to believe that because conservatives generally lean toward smaller government and more self-reliance, they want all the poor to "fend for themselves". They constantly portray Republicans as rich fat cats who could not care less if poor people starve, are sick, or have decent shelter. I have heard Obama say this very thing numerous times.

    In my view, conservatives are much more likely to dig into their own pockets in order to help out someone in need than are liberals. Nowhere is that more evident than among the Mormon population. They volunteer their time and give their own money to a whole bunch of programs that help the needy. Just because they don't want to be forced to do this by a huge bloated government, the left is constantly trying to demonize them and all conservatives.

  • Kiyo Washougal, Washington
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:15 a.m.

    ..This study is opinion, by people on the outside looking in...I would suggest that if you really want to find out about these things, that you come on in and discover them for yourselves. The main requirement is that you are sincere in your Christian perspective.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:19 a.m.

    @atl134 - if a gallup survey concluded that 79% of LDS are active, that's pretty big indictment of gallup's credibility on LDS surveys. Even in the strongest areas of the church, a 79% activity rate in any ward would be the envy of everyone else in the stake. A 70% activity rate in Utah County is pretty good. 60% activity rate is pretty good elsewhere in Utah, and anything above 50% would be considered very good in most places outside Utah.

    Yes, the church wants to hold onto its liberal members, and its conservative members, and its socialist members and whatever legitimate and ethical political party any member of the world may belong to. That's why the Church sticks to the business of salvation and rigidly adheres to political neutrality.

    It appears that your comment was a support of my claim. I welcome your support, and agree with your premise that conservatives should not use religious sanctimony as a hammer against the entire liberal belief system. Liberal LDS members, although in the minority, are no less prone to self righteousness, and could certainly use the same advice.

  • KM Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    Pagan

    Once again you have proved the point that you are a one trick pony. Its always about gay rights.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    @Sammybigdog

    " Above average interest in politics yet one of lowest rates of actual voters. Hard to explain that one."

    No it isn't. The explanation is that Mormons are busier than most people.
    - We have one less day to conduct our business and run errands than everyone else.
    - Because we have larger families, LDS parents have fuller schedules.
    - Because we tend to be single-income, LDS breadwinners tend to work more hours.
    - We have church callings, many of which take lots of our limited free time.
    - We're supposed to be reading scriptures individually and as a family, saying prayers multiple times a day, holding family home evening once a week, attending 3 hours of church a week, etc. All that cuts into our time to do things like vote.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    'Until the Democrats stop preaching the virtues of abortion they will remain a minority for those in Utah who vote their conscience.' - Rifleman | 10:12 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    I am going to disagree with you here as well Rifleman. Claiming this is a 'moral' stance...

    *Sen Kyl mocked for making up numbers in abortion debate By Sara Israelsen-Hartley DSNews 04/12/11

    *'Abortion foes' tactics highlight high NYC rate' - By Cristian Salazar - AP - Published by DSNews - 04/06/11

    when some are caught LYING about abortion numbers.

    There is also the case about making ANY abortion illegal...

    EVEN, in cases of rape and incest.

    *'Sharron Angle's Advice For Rape Victims Considering Abortion: Turn Lemons Into Lemonade' - Sam Stein - Huffington Post - 07/08/10

    And last, many who are 'pro-life' also, with a few exceptions, support the death penalty.

    As supported by:

    *'George Tiller Killed: Abortion Doctor Shot At Church' - Huffington Post - 05/31/09

    Scott Roeder, who killed a man at his CHURCH...

    due to his stance AGAINST abortion. And chose 'life.'

    How 'moral' are these claims, when faced with the reality?

  • justaguy Out There in, WI
    Dec. 15, 2011 12:21 p.m.

    Did this study of stereotypes say nothing of green jello? What kind of a study was it if it missed that one?

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 12:49 p.m.

    It will be interesting to see if members of the LDS church continue to overwhelmingly support a party that continues to show an increasing not a decreasing prejudice toward their faith and beliefs. Remember Mike Huckabee's "cult" reference from the previous presidential election cycle. Look at the current cycle which could be described as the "Anyone but Mitt Primary Election". Really the party with the supposed family values is going gaga over Newt Gingrich? Why? Because the rank in file members of the republican party outside of the state of Utah would vote for practically anyone to avoid voting for a Mormon. Most of those with strong Christian beliefs are republicans, and those are the folks that will in no way consider voting for Mitt.

    You can say a lot of things about the Democratic Party, but you can't say that they have demonstrated the bigotry towards the LDS church that the republican party has demonstrated.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 12:54 p.m.

    Pagan's latest comment (11:28 a.m. Dec. 15) is akin to arguing that liberals must be in favor of murder because certain liberals have committed murder.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 15, 2011 1:17 p.m.

    To "Baccus0902 | 9:30 a.m." actually, capitalism is not cold and heartless. It is the way that people get out of poverty. See the recent article in the DN ambout MicroCredit in Africa, and how it is lifing the people out of poverty.

    The bigger question that you should ask, is this: If the LDS believe that you should work to take care yourself and your family, why would any of them support socialism or the policies of the liberals?

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 1:35 p.m.

    My money's on the professors and their peer-reviewed study. The rest of you "I once had a stats class" armchair academics ought to just relax. How many of you have looked at the data? How many of you have done the calculations? Or...how many of you are just somehow uncomfortable with the rather vanilla conclusions. And why are we all wasting our time commenting on such a meaningless piece?

  • Outsideview Federal Way, WA
    Dec. 15, 2011 2:02 p.m.

    I guess it wouldnt be a sterotype if a a fair number of people didnt fit into it.

    Lets remember that 43% of USA Mormons (which is a good number) are not Republican and are probably much more moderate than todays "Party policians".

  • nyca411 Menlo Park, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 2:24 p.m.

    I agree with everyone who has noted that there are more LDS outside of the U.S. than in it, and therefore, more LDS who are NOT caucasian, NOT Republican, etc. But, this study was about LDS members WITHIN the United States, so, it is what it is. I have not been given access to the methodology of this study to determine if their conclusions are accurate, so I can't complain about the results at this time. All I know is what Trinity College tells us, that this was a study of LDS members IN the U.S., so they did not factor in members living in other countries, which of course would have changed the outcomes. So, please relax!!!!!

    "A new study coming out of Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., indicates that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the United States are..."

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Dec. 15, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Sammybigdog writes

    "Above average interest in politics yet one of lowest rates of actual voters. Hard to explain that one."

    And then Brave Sir Robin counters with a long list of nobel reasons why the LDS are too busy to vote.

    OK, I'll take a stab at it.

    Most LDS live in Utah. The outcomes of Utah elections is generally a forgone conclusion long before the polls open.

    Many just may look it as a futile effort.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 15, 2011 2:27 p.m.

    @ Redshirt 1701 1:17

    Thank you for your opinion.

    However,I stand by my position that Capitalism is selfish and dehumanizing. The theory of Laissez Faire economic behavior is rooted in the individual skills to produce wealth not as a means but as an end. This attitude is usually fueled not to satisfy needs but the wants for power and dominance. Greed and avarice are necessary to succeed in this limited economic world.
    Competition not cooperation is the rule.

    Christ taught us to live and create communities (Acts 2:42-47) Joseph Smith and the United Order was a continuation of the same.

    As Rifleman 8:42 AM wrote: "If Jesus walked the earth today his teachings would be unpopular with many who consider themselves Christians"

    There are several economic schools that move away from pure capitalism and look for a more balanced system. The most stable societies on the world such as Sweden, Norway, Belgium, and others countries rely in a mixed economic system. Understanding that human dignity is paramount.

    Of course, there is more taxation. However, there are still wealthy people. What you don't find is the poverty you find in capitalist countries.

  • Dwight89 SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 2:44 p.m.

    @ JT-X

    Actually, 50,000 is a VERY large sample size. A sample that large would yield a very small margin of error when using a 90% or higher confidence level. For example, most political polls done during election years are only samples of a thousand. So 50,000 is pretty dang big.

  • cindyacre Shelley, ID
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:11 p.m.

    If I'm not mistaken, this is a study about the perception of what others think ABOUT members of the Church, not the actual living reality. They probably also don't think we dance, watch movies, or eat chocolate (and I mean GOOD chocolate.) Is there more good chocolate out there? Places I can go dance?

  • ThinksIThink SEATTLE, WA
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:16 p.m.

    This isn't the first study or evidence that the mormon church inflates its membership numbers. Census from a number of foreign countries have shown the actual number of mormons in those countries to be far lower than as reported by the mormon church.

    I don't know if anyone has done a study on why the numbers are inflated.

  • bobosmom small town, Nebraska
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:18 p.m.

    I'm LDS, not based in Utah, married with no children and work full time. I am not a republican or democrat but I am registered to vote. I have been registered republican, raised by wonderful parents who were regisitered democracts. I guess I don't fit the mold to say. I thought the study was interesting reading. One thing I have learned lately is do not discuss politics with my friends that are LDS. I was shocked how some of them felt politically. All I know is if newt and president obama are the choices than I might not vote.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    Re: Rifleman "Most Mormons believe in the sanctity of life and believe in personal responsibility. Until the Democrats stop preaching the virtues of abortion they will remain a minority for those in Utah who vote their conscience. " I am a socialist and our time is coming. As to the sanctity of life I am in some agreement with you. If a couple has unprotected sex and a pregnancy results - they have invited a human life into the world. I do not believe in abortion as birth control. However, I am not going to interject myself between a woman and her doctor, which people of your persuasion are determined to do. This one tough issue for all of us.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:34 p.m.

    ThinksIThink | 3:16 p.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    SEATTLE, WA
    This isn't the first study or evidence that the mormon church inflates its membership numbers. Census from a number of foreign countries have shown the actual number of mormons in those countries to be far lower than as reported by the mormon church.

    @thinksIthink, Agreed. I am the only active member in my immediate and extended family. Yet none of my family members who have been bapitized have had their names removed from the church records. Thus, I am certain they are all counted in the overall membership. When you look at the overall list of inactive members in the church, it would cause the numbers to significantly drop, including in Utah. Frankly I think it is very possible that the percentage of active LDS adults in Utah who could be voters compared to the overall population of adults in Utah who could be voters is less than 50%. These members who believe there is no need to vote will be surprised one day by not showing up at the polls. Utah's population is gradually changing; the mormons will eventually lose the majority here.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:48 p.m.

    To "Baccus0902 | 2:27 p.m." let me counter that by saying that if you don't like capitalism, that only leaves socialism or some other collectivist type of economic model, and that is contrary to the teachings of the LDS church.

    Read the talk "A Vision and a Hope for the Youth of Zion" by Ezra Taft Benson. He is quite clear in defining the United Order and its differences form communism. He states "Is the united order a communal system? Emphatically not. It never has been and never will be. It is "intensely individualistic." Does the united order eliminate private ownership of property? No." He then continues to be more direct when he said that "There are some among us who would confuse the united order with socialism. That is a serious misunderstanding."

    Again in 1986 we heard from Gordon B. Hinkley in November 1986 stated that we are in a war over agency and compulsion, and that compulsion is not the Lord's way. So, if you don't like capitalism, and believe in socialism and believe it is good to compel a person to do good, who's side are you on?

  • CortM HOUSTON, TX
    Dec. 15, 2011 3:53 p.m.

    In the 1960s, Elder Ezra Taft Benson, a standing member of the Twelve, actively campaigned for Barry Goldwater. Go back and read some of his Conference talks from the 1960s, and then say the the leaders have always been politically neutral. Read his statements on the Civil Rights movement being a tool of International Communism. Go back further, and read what Pres. Joseph F. Smith had to say about labor unions. Aside from an official position, consider what you encounter in your wards and stakes. Here in Texas, in a poor, mostly minority ward, I heard men get up in a testimony meeting to urge people to vote for Mitt Romney. You want to get dirty looks? Mention that you're a Democrat in a stake High Council meeting. We used to have a moderate wing in the Church. It was Lowell Bennion and Elder Hugh B. Brown. They're both dead.

    It is true that worldwide, Mormons are mostly of color, mostly poor, and if we speak English at all, we do so as a second language. But nearly all of Mormon wealth, Mormon education, and Mormon leadership comes from North America. There is a yawning chasm between those groups.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    "That war, so bitter, so intense, has gone on, and it has never ceased. It is the war between truth and error, between agency and compulsion, between the followers of Christ and those who have denied Him. His enemies have used every stratagem in that conflict. Theyve indulged in lying and deceit. Theyve employed money and wealth. Theyve tricked the minds of men. Theyve murdered and destroyed and engaged in every other unholy and impure practice to thwart the work of Christ."
    Gordon B. Hinckley 1986

    "Essential to our doctrinal position on these matters is the difference between our freedom and our agency. Our freedom can be limited by various conditions of mortality, but Gods gift of agency cannot be limited by outside forces, because it is the basis for our accountability to him."
    Dallin H. Oaks 1995

    Our agency IS a condition of mortal life. Every criminal in prison, every POW, even Holocaust victims had agency. But they did not have freedom.

    For the record
    The LDS Church does not take a stance on Roe v. Wade and is not opposed to abortion in instances of rape, incest or health/life issues.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 4:43 p.m.

    There are always ignorant members of the church who take it upon themselves to tell you that you have to be Republican to be a good Mormon, even though there are many apostles and prophets who have been Democratic. The church leadership always declares political independence, and to research issues, think about them, and pray.

    I can believe in pro-choice and still reconcile my beliefs with the church. Free agency is a cornerstone. I basically hold to the church views there for abortion: health of mother, rape and incest. I don't however have to impose my views on others. Tracking every pregnancy would be BIG GOVERNMENT anyway. Agent Smith would have to go to your prenatal checkup, ladies--that would be good times. It could get very scary if the right takes it far. Non-procreational sex could be a felony. The initiative that failed in Mississippi--yes Mississippi, was very strict and scary.

    The stereotypes, although probably earned, do the LDS religion a disservice. The members in it, like any religion, are too complex to be broad-brushed (i.e. Harry Reid and Mitt Romney). Both are good people and good members with different views.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Dec. 15, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    "Again in 1986 we heard from Gordon B. Hinkley in November 1986 stated that we are in a war over agency and compulsion, and that compulsion is not the Lord's way. So, if you don't like capitalism, and believe in socialism and believe it is good to compel a person to do good, who's side are you on?"

    What an absolute twisted and warped way to justify an opinion that somehow Christ would prioritize wealth creation over compassion to those who are presumably sons and daughters of our heavenly father - to whom we have a stewardship as spiritual brothers and sisters. I find no where in his teachings that say you should price things at what the market will bear, rather that what is right and just. I find no where where Christ teaches that economics should play any part in deciding what help the sick and elderly should receive.

    The notion that we have to pick between full blown capitalism and socialism over simplifies the issue and is embarrasing. No where is it predicated that this is an either or question. This has nothing to do with worthiness or membership. What a pompous presumption.

  • No Conference Will Take Us SEATTLE, WA
    Dec. 15, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    We have Democrat and even Green Party members up this way. Go to church and activities together. No problems with getting along.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:05 p.m.

    UteBlueDevil..Capitalism vrs socialism/communism is the choice we all face in libs vrs conservatives everyday.....its not a presumption at all, its reality!

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:12 p.m.

    If the terms GOP and LDS are so interchangeable why are Republicans wanting anybody but Mitt Romney? The Republican establishment seems to be for him but only because of tax policies. I've always voted Republican in the presidential elections until I became fed up with the prevailing attitudes that you cannot simultaneously be a member in good standing and be a Democrat and that the Church's official neutrality policy is always quoted with winks winks. Last week I sat next to a businessman from Chicago who does business in Utah and Idaho and he was shocked to realize that Senator Reid was a Mormon. Is this really how we want to be viewed by others? Of course I am just as narrow minded because I don't see how you can study the Book of Mormon and be a Republican.

  • donn layton, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:20 p.m.

    Re: LDS 4. Research does not offer startling new info about Mormons According to the report, "young men in the Mormon Culture Region are defecting at substantially higher rates than young women.

    I was a young man when,I left the Church over 25 years ago, when I became a Christian(Born from above, G. 509 John 3:3). My spouse is inactive (Jack Mormon).
    The church claiming 68 percent of Utah's citizenry in 2008 is Mormon and When you consider the small Christian community in Utah and parts of SLC our very secular. Utah has probably the least Christian community in the U.S

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:30 p.m.

    "young men in the Mormon Culture Region are defecting at substantially higher rates than young women, creating a growing gender imbalance and a surplus of Mormon women. In Utah, self-identified Mormon women outnumber men by a ratio of 3 to 2."

    I just realized something... this may be the most skewed the gender ratio has ever been in church history.

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Baccus0902: selfish and dehumanizing values of the cold capitalism preached by (Republicans)? Newsflash: Capitalism is an economic system, not a moral system nor a religion.

    LDS like myself have no issue, whatsoever, with charity for the poor. We just dont want the bloated, inept federal government doing the job.

    Ronald Reagan said in 1962: I didnt leave the Democrat Party. The party left me. You might want to pick up the book How Can You Possibly Be a Mormon and a Democrat? by Clinton Joe Andersen, Jr. and then try to respond to that question in 2011.

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:44 p.m.

    Baccus0902: The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way.

    In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade.

    If you want to know where the masses are worse off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear; that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. Milton Friedman, Economist and Nobel prize winner

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:47 p.m.

    NT and PGVikingDad, you miss the point. The Church has not asked me to vote for a particular candidate. However, the Church is closely identified with the GOP, something that was not helped when a certain Church leader said from the pulpit that he was a Republican and then said something to the effect that he shouldn't have said that. Come on. But the tight cultural connection to the GOP hurts the Church in spreading the Gospel. I know for a fact it does in the East and in Europe. So NT, what progress do you think I want? Maybe I think the Gospel should go out to everyone, not just those who fit into the stereotype. If the Church wants to truly be a global church, it cannot culturally, socially and otherwise be so tied to one political party that only 7% of Utah members admit they are Democrats.

    And to Rifleman and others who state that the LDS Church teaches chastity and moral cleanliness. I agree, so who is the leading candidate of your chosen political party? Whoops!

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Dec. 15, 2011 5:47 p.m.

    Baccus0902: "Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." Alexis de Tocqueville

  • EightOhOne HURRICANE, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:13 p.m.

    oldcougar | 1:35 p.m. Dec. 15, 2011
    Orem, UT
    My money's on the professors and their peer-reviewed study. The rest of you "I once had a stats class" armchair academics ought to just relax. How many of you have looked at the data? How many of you have done the calculations? Or...how many of you are just somehow uncomfortable with the rather vanilla conclusions. And why are we all wasting our time commenting on such a meaningless piece?

    Spot on 100%!!! LOL @ all the uproar, why are people so defensive about this study??? the article clearly states that it was done on lds members in the u.s. surely no one will argue that the majority of american mormons are white and repubs, would they??? men lie, women lie, numbers dont.

  • AkMama ANCHORAGE, AK
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:17 p.m.

    "But, this study was about LDS members WITHIN the United States, so, it is what it is. I have not been given access to the methodology of this study to determine if their conclusions are accurate, so I can't complain about the results at this time. All I know is what Trinity College tells us, that this was a study of LDS members IN the U.S., so they did not factor in members living in other countries, which of course would have changed the outcomes."

    No, it was about the contiguous 48 states, or as we in the Great Land refer to you, the smaller 48. Once again we in Alaska feel the "prejudice" of not belonging to the US. However, if the researchers had the statistics for AK and HI, I can understand why they left them out. It would have skewed their "results."

    Also, although LDS in lower 48 may be 59% Republican, Mormons tend to be more moderate Republicans than evangelicals. Hence their distrust of LDS Republicans.

    And, just a guess, but I'll bet more LDS are either Libertarian or Independent in their political views, no matter how they've registered.

  • CortM HOUSTON, TX
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:28 p.m.

    Capitalism is only an economic system, but corporations are people?

    Half of the adults in this country live at or near the poverty line. Half. Ninety percent of the people in the world live in abject poverty. One of the great motivators for the early success of Mormonism in England was the horror wrought by the Industrial Revolution. When Wilford Woodruff arrived in northern England as a missionary, a place where capitalism was in full flower, unfettered by any sort of intervention, Wilford Woodruff sat down and wrote in his journal, "I have seen Hell, and it is Manchester." Mormonism was seen as an escape from that, a promise that there was something greater than having (to use Isaiah's phrase) you face ground under the heel of the master class.

    Elder Benson is half right. The United Order is fiercely individualistic, but it is individualistic in a communal framework. Everything about Mormonism is communal and communitarian: Wards. Stakes. Most importantly, families: we are interdependent and interconnected. "They had all things common" sure sounds commual to me...

  • owlmaster2 Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 6:30 p.m.

    Mormons teach the theory of free agency but then turn around and attempt to control the decisions by women concerning what they do with their own bodies.
    I think it was the Devil that wanted to force people to get back into heaven by dictating how they lived their lives. Isn't that what the Republicans want to do as well??
    I agree, the majority of U.S. Mormons are Republicans but in the process, practice the will of Satan in a lot of their actions. Don't believe me??? I'll be you $10,000 on it right now.

  • Mayfair City, Ut
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:18 p.m.

    owlmaster2: "the decisions by women concerning what they do with their own bodies"

    I think that would be the bodies of the babies they are carrying.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 7:43 p.m.

    To "owlmaster2 | 6:30 p.m." first, let me correct one of the things that you said. There is no such thing as "free agency". It is simply "agency" we have the ability to make choices and we will reap the consequences of those choices.

    Next, when it comes to abortion, you are not looking at it from an agency stand point. The woman made the choice (agency) when she decided to have sex with a man. The result (consequence) of that choice was that she became pregnant. On top of that, when getting an abortion, she is killing an innocent child that has done no wrong.

    The Republicans do have factions that are are equal to the Democrats, they are called Progressives. They have the same end goal, just a different name and method going there.

    The Conservatives are the ones who are looking to protect the lives of the innocent, and are doing what it takes to allow the US to be free and prosper. The liberals would have us follow Europe off the same cliff that they are about to go over.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    Dec. 15, 2011 8:28 p.m.

    To: owlmaster2 | 6:30 p.m. Dec. 15, 2011 Kaysville, UT - as a non-member of the LDS faith, I have never heard any member I know say that the LDS church tries "to control the decisions by women concerning what they do with their own bodies". Are you making a reference to birth control or abortion? Based on my impression and understanding, the LDS faith stresses agency and understanding how to best use that agency. The individual is then free to exercise that agency. There is a big difference between encouraging people to be accountable and forcing them to live a certain life-style that you say the Republicans are pushing. While I am an independent voter, you need to understand the basis of both sides of the argument.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:15 p.m.

    @ be practical.

    I understand the choosing of life as the number one priority over choosing a choice to replace it.

    However, the self reliance thing is so brain washed into wealthy evangelicals heads. In our economy and current capitalistic situation, it has long been impossible for large volumes of people to earn a livable wage.

    Despite the fact that there are plenty of so called 'entitled folk' and unmotivated individuals, there are all too many Americans who can't live on their wages. This has been the trend since the early 90's. Capitalism has been failing us for a long time.

    I wonder how history will record our fall. The failed Soviet experiments have clouded our judgment of our own nationalistic self. We need to look in the mirror, and it has to come from those that earn the most. Show some humanity for the less fortunate.

  • Way of the Warrior ANACORTES, WA
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:32 p.m.

    I'd be more interested to see a study on the stereotypes Mormons have then on stereotypes of Mormons. Seems we're always interested in looking outward, but never within.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 9:51 p.m.

    The last shall be first and the first shall be last.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 15, 2011 11:51 p.m.

    I don't know what a stereotypical mormon is. I don't mind that they exist. However, I'm not one. I expect what is mine politically, socially and economically in our society. Stereotypical mormons exist. But they are just stereotypical mormons. I am a stereotypical American. I'm not giving that up because I live here.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 12:24 a.m.

    However do you know what is truly ironic? The faith which would most easily implement a socialist agenda is the LDS Church. The memory of 19th century collectivism is still there. Moreover, the Church welfare program is effective and very extra-market. Some form of socialism is on the way. I anticipate the LDS church will be present with its own brand of it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 16, 2011 8:00 a.m.

    Re:Redshirt
    If Conservatives were truly concerned about the lives of the "innocent" they wouldn't oppose making birth control more economical, they wouldn't be defunding healthcare clinics for women and they wouldn't support in vitro fertilization.
    Why is abortion permissible in cases of rape and incest? Furthermore, agency doesn't stop at conception.

    Women bear the emotional, physical, spirititual and financial consequences of unplanned pregnancies and therefore the decision making must be hers.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 8:28 a.m.

    @Truthseeker - family members also bear the emotional, physical, spiritual, and financial consequences of caring for unplanned severely mentally challenged people, unplanned severely crippled people, and unplanned seniors who can't care for themselves. Should the decision of the life and death of these people be up to the family members in charge of their care?

    Just because it's inconvenient to care for another human being doesn't make it right to kill them.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 16, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    @Lasvegaspam.

    My apologies, I answered to your comment last night before going to bed. This morning I see my comment was denied by the bastion of security and truth of the DN.

    My only suggestion to you is for you to study a little bit more of politics, beyond the Capitalist parties such as the Republican and Democrats versions of the U.S.A.. You can explore Social Democracy, Christian Democrats, Europe is a source of vibrant new and old ideas.

    Please read the prophets after the book of Psalms, The Book of Mormon is a great source of community work...."There were no poor among them". What a beautiful statement.

    I hope this comment is allowed, if not, I'm sorry. (I sound like Moroni :)

    I want to assure you the Following: You and I think differently about politics.
    But what is more important hopefully both of us are united in pursuing a better future for ourselves, our country and the world.

    Peace!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    @ Ms Molli | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    "And get to know them on a day other than Sunday. People are often very different on church days than the other 6 days of the week (and that applies to other religious groups as well). "

    Amen. Truer words were never spoken.

    re: Rifleman | 8:42 a.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    "I like your Christ. I do not like Christians. Christians are so unlike your Christ."

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 9:20 a.m.

    My quote previously in reply to Rifleman is from Ghandi

  • Monique CHANDLER, AZ
    Dec. 16, 2011 9:44 a.m.

    I find it very interesting that so many people accuse Republicans or capitalists of being cold, calculating, and greedy. Most republicans are not against giving to the poor, helping the sick and the needy. They are just against having a bureaucratic government do it for them. I actually really resent this stereotype. Studies show that, statistically, republicans give more to charity than democrats. (google it) Jesus told us to care for the sick and needy, he never suggested that we have the government do it for us.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 10:12 a.m.

    So, according to this study (which was apparently done by Mormon sociologists?), over 41% of US Mormons will not even admit that they are Mormon when asked in confidence so that nobody would even know.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    Dec. 16, 2011 10:40 a.m.

    "Dwight89 | 2:44 p.m. Dec. 15, 2011

    @ JT-X

    Actually, 50,000 is a VERY large sample size. A sample that large would yield a very small margin of error when using a 90% or higher confidence level. For example, most political polls done during election years are only samples of a thousand. So 50,000 is pretty dang big"

    OK, Dwight, my issue is not so much with the sample size, which would be adequate if applied per capita across the entire United States (something we have no evidence of). But to agree with AKMama, they obviously left out AK and HI because those results would skew their desired results. Or else, why claim that it was a poll of US Mormons? My other point about Puerto Rico not being included stands, for the same reason.

    I believe there is enough inference to believe that they started out with a set of stereotypes, and went in search of data that would confirm them.

    Those stereotypes are probably true over the lower 48. Just don't call it a US study if it ain't.

    Glad I came back to this one....

  • Straitpath PROVO, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 10:44 a.m.

    All that is important is that we have faith In God and Jesus Christ and love our fellow man.

  • Joggle Clearfield, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 12:25 p.m.

    All that is important is that we be able to have faith In God and Jesus Christ....or NOT have faith. The beliefs of the the non-religious and/or secular people are just as important as those of the religious and neither one should have a favored status over the other even if they are a majority. Love of our fellow man is good in theory, but poor in practice. Love of your fellow man is a worn-out, over-used phrase that many--both religious and non-religious people often preach, but often don't practice. It's a myth to believe we all can love each other just because we all exist. The conflicts and differences are too great. I prefer the "the brotherhood of man" (generic)....however we have a long way to go before acheiving that. The good effort of each person benefits all people; the error or evil of each man augments the trials of all men. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part.

  • Lasvegaspam Henderson, NV
    Dec. 16, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    Baccus0902 Appreciate your words and would encourage you to study, rather than European versions of democracy, our Founders ideas. I consider myself a Classical Liberal of the Jeffersonian type and entirely believe Gods words: And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose D&C 101:80

    In addition, my entire family resides in Denmark. There are poor among them today, despite their socialism. Poor Muslim immigrants attempting to enter Denmark today are discriminated against, openly. Their socialistic system is breaking down, in part, due to young couples unwillingness to replace themselves via birthrate. There are not enough young workers to support their elderly. All is not merry and bright, yet Scandinavia is often falsely pointed to as a model.

    Youll notice I have chosen to live/work in THIS land, and attempt to defend it from the erroneous ideas that have weakened our nation, our people and our Constitution; the greatest of which is modern-day liberalism.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 3:28 p.m.

    Lasvegaspam
    (M)y entire family resides in Denmark. There are poor among them today, despite their socialism. Poor Muslim immigrants attempting to enter Denmark today are discriminated against, openly. Their socialistic system is breaking down, in part, due to young couples unwillingness to replace themselves via birthrate. There are not enough young workers to support their elderly. All is not merry and bright, yet Scandinavia is often falsely pointed to as a model.

    LDS4
    I served my mission in Denmark a few decades ago and that was evident even then. The high taxes forced all women to work and therefore few kids were born. People were too tired to deal with kids. They also couldn't afford a larger home and other expenses that come with kids. Again, due to heavy taxation. Socialism forces couples to "circle the wagons" and "hunker down". They aren't going to spend money on kids.

    They were importing Turks and other "Mohamedaner" even then because they needed workers to pay taxes to support their generous welfare state. When I was there, the sales tax was 23%.

    Socialism is a recipe for social suicide.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 16, 2011 5:40 p.m.

    @Vanka
    Well there's the matter of people who have left the church but whose names haven't been removed from the records. That's probably the largest chunk of the 41%. Also, was this a survey of adults only? That might influence things a bit since I assume the LDS church has a higher share of the youngest age demographics with all those kids.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Dec. 17, 2011 7:45 p.m.

    Monique
    CHANDLER, AZ
    Are you talking as a percentage of income about charity? Remember the widow's mite. The Republican party, especially the tea party wing is currently designing to repeal the popular election of Senators. Also, they are trying to disenfranchise as many Democrat voters as they can. They want a gold backed dollar because it is easier to hoard. They want to control the Federal Reserve System. They will cut benefits to current social security recipients if they get in control. In short, they want to take America back to the pre Teddy Roosevelt days. They have never accepted defeat by the progressive gains during his term as president. I do not care how many people they fool but it is not me.

  • O'really Idaho Falls, ID
    Dec. 18, 2011 8:25 p.m.

    @ Baccus IF there is less poverty in nations under a socialist system, how would you explain the abject poverty of so many in places like Cuba, China and Russia?

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2011 8:45 a.m.

    FDRfan
    The Republican party, especially the tea party wing is currently designing to repeal the popular election of Senators.
    LDS4
    Why is that wrong? We have a House and a Senate. The former was supposed to represent the people and the latter, the states. With the popular selection of senators, the interests and rights of the states are being ignored.

    FRRFan
    Also, they are trying to disenfranchise as many Democrat voters as they can.
    LDS4
    Huh? Asking people to present photo ID, like they do when cashing a check, rent a car, but beer, etc...is reasonable to prevent voter fraud (dead people voting in Chicago, illegals voting, etc...). States give photo IDs for free.

    FDRFan
    They will cut benefits to current social security recipients if they get in control.
    LDS4
    If those benefits aren't cut, just like other entitlement programs, those programs will be bankrupt and vanish. Businesses will cut pay in order to keep afloat. This is better than going our of business and then there is NO paycheck. Government simply printing fiat money doesn't solve this problem, it makes it worse. This is why we are in the me we are currently.

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    Dec. 20, 2011 8:42 a.m.

    The researchers (who are Mormon) said the Church has been "treading water" in terms of growth over the past 18 years, with as many leaving as are coming in.

  • The Vanka Provo, UT
    Dec. 20, 2011 10:26 a.m.

    That means I must be doing something right.

  • elarue NEW YORK, NY
    Dec. 28, 2011 10:07 a.m.

    @PGVikingDad - the Church is officially silent on political affiliation. However, the overwhelming slant of members of the Church towards the Republican Party gives the perception (whether that perception is warranted or not) that the Church is tilted in one direction. I, for one, am a temple worthy member of the Church who identifies very strongly with the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, and I even doubly identify with the Green Party. Why? Because I am concerned for the welfare of my family, and I believe that things like the success of Occupy Wall Street may just be the best political blessing that my family (as well as the families of all Americans) could receive. I don't believe that conservatives hold the monopoly on "family values" as they would have Christians believe, and I believe there's a lot more value on families within liberalism and progressivism. And remember, I still hold my temple recommend.

  • elarue NEW YORK, NY
    Dec. 28, 2011 11:59 a.m.

    @lds4gaymarriage - regarding your comment about being required to show ID, the ID itself may be free, but some of the people most impacted by these new laws, such as the elderly, would have to spend money to acquire documentation proving their identity to obtain such ID to begin with, which is why the Justice Department is investigating whether or not this amounts to a poll tax. Furthermore, the percentages of voter fraud are so infinitesimal compared to the number of voters who would be disenfranchised by these new laws. These laws are clearly politically motivated, not born out of concern for voting integrity.