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For most Republican voters, Mitt Romney's faith is not an issue

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  • Kiyo Washougal, Washington
    Nov. 22, 2011 11:41 p.m.

    Go Mitt in 2012.....His election to the presidency will signal the beginning of the end to most of the bigotry surrounding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

  • Fender Bender Saint George, UT
    Nov. 22, 2011 11:51 p.m.

    "For most Republican voters, Mitt Romney's faith is not an issue."

    You just keep telling yourself that, Republican Mormons.

    The reality is that the left will continue to shy away from LDS candidates because of differences in political ideology, and the right will continue to treat Mormons as second-class citizens in the political arena because of differences in religious beliefs.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 12:39 a.m.

    There's a bit of difference in question wording though. One asks if you're unwilling to vote for a Mormon, the other asks if him being Mormon makes a difference. If you're someone unwilling or less willing to vote for a Mormon but you're strongly against Romneycare, then you may not have been voting for him anyway so the Mormon thing wouldn't make a difference.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Nov. 23, 2011 4:52 a.m.

    "88 percent of Republican and Republican-leaning voters say they are either unaware of Romney's religion"

    That is A LOT of very uninformed people.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Nov. 23, 2011 5:30 a.m.

    Romney's recent add is one of the most dishonest political adds I have ever seen.

    He takes a clip of Obama quoting John McCain, out of context and passes the words as Obamas own.

    I understand that politics can be a dirty business, but this is over the top.

    So much for how "religious" Romney is.

  • Susan in VA Alexandria, VA
    Nov. 23, 2011 6:04 a.m.

    I cannot even express my disappointment in Romney... I thought maybe for the first time in my life I would be voting Republican... and yet, in his effort to unseat Obama, Romney has taken Obama's words so out of context that I now cannot trust anything that Romney says. Why do politicians feel the need to lie to gain votes? Not only has Romney lost my vote, but he has also lost my respect. Didn't Heavenly Father say something about "Tho shalt not bear false witness"?

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Nov. 23, 2011 6:28 a.m.

    Gingrich seems to be the only one that has read and agrees with the Utah Compact. I cringed when he said that America would not be so cruel that it would break up families. He will have to except the Mormon state of Utah.
    Mitt Romney is an elitist in the ugliest sense. He would welcome with open arms the worlds brightest and wealthiest and completely turn his back on the poor and destitute. His view on charity is typically Republican increase the soup kitchens (with tuxedoed servers) and stock the food banks with cans of food produced in China. In other words glorify the rich and humiliate the poor.
    What led Bloom to conclude that the Church was an oligarchy of plutocrats? I don't think he could have formed that opinion if his contacts were with the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. But what about others?

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2011 6:32 a.m.

    The Bible Belt won't vote for a Mormon, and no Republican can win nationwide without the Bible Belt. The evangelicals will stay home.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    Nov. 23, 2011 6:40 a.m.

    Mitt's faith IS the issue. Period.
    Religious (implied) fanaticism is always viewed as a problem. To the world outside the Salt Lake corridor, it's fanaticism.

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 6:55 a.m.

    The reality is that the GOP is not enthusiastic about Mitt, and this will lead to Obama getting a second term.

    The Democrats will exploit several of Mitt's vulnerabilities, from how ObamaCare is modeled after RomneyCare to the American jobs Mitt downsized from his corporate enterprises and off-shored to make a buck for himself to his flip-flops on social issues.

    While his Mormonism may not be a primary reason not to vote for him, it becomes simply "another thing" for traditional GOP voters to contemplate in light of his other bigger problems.

    Aside from Huntsman, he's probably the most balanced of GOP candidates in the field. The latest sudden GOP interest in Newt will fade as people are reminded of his marital infidelity and involvement with the financial mess. Too bad the GOP doesn't have anyone else to consider...

    For too many independents, such as myself, Mitt's not authentic enough. His debate comment not too long ago that he can't have any illegals working in his yard because he was running for president seemed to just smack at that he'll do/say anything to be president.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Nov. 23, 2011 7:04 a.m.

    I guess the problem that I am having is that given the choice between Trump, Bachmann, Cain, Perry, Gingrich and Romney, a lot of people in the polls have to think about it. Romney doesn't jump out to them.

    Like someone said on a Yahoo message board, "Gingrich? Ha! Ha! That's funny. But seriously, who are the Republicans going to nominate?"

  • RShackleford Saint George, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 7:23 a.m.

    I'm a Republican Mormon, Also a State Delegate. And I'm Not sure what Church Ron Paul goes to. But I am fully behind him. What is it about liberty and person responsibility (and accountability) many republicans don't understand?

    As for Mitt, I don't think this country can afford his big government policies. It has nothing to do with his religion. He is a RINO and people need to look at his record in MA, not his church attendance. He is no Fiscal Conservative.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Nov. 23, 2011 7:34 a.m.

    apologies, My cut and paste didnt come through correctly.

    Should have read.

    "88 percent of Republican and Republican-leaning voters say they are either unaware of Romney's religion or it will make no difference in how they vote."

  • bobosmom small town, Nebraska
    Nov. 23, 2011 7:45 a.m.

    I'm not real impressed with the candidates be it Republican or the current president. I've voted in every presidential election since I was old enough to vote. The field isn't to exciting.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 7:45 a.m.

    To Susan in VA, Just what are you talking about? Give an example please.

    This election is going to be the all time biggest mud slinger. Obama has nothing positive to run on. So much so that some in the Democratic Party are suggesting he step aside and let Hillary run. Won't happen of course but that just shows how bad his re-election prospects are. So what will happen is the Democrats and the mainstream media will attack the Republican like we have never seen. Romney will present a huge problem due to his scandle free life style. Talk about political lying, Susan, you ain't seen nothing yet. They are going to make up stuff about Romney that would even embarrass Bill Clinton.

  • xscribe Colorado Springs, CO
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:07 a.m.

    But apparently it's an issue for the Des News, as they keep putting these stories out. There was already a national story at least a month ago that dealt with that issue, but the Des is fixated on Mormonism. I know he's Mormon and I would vote for him, and I don't even believe in God. Religion, or the lack thereof, plays a zero percent role in who I would choose for president, and that should be the same for everyone.

  • Vince the boonies, mexico
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:10 a.m.

    The mans faith rightfully so is not the issue it's his mentality of me, me, I,I!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:20 a.m.

    "So what will happen is the Democrats and the mainstream media will attack the Republican like we have never seen. "

    As opposed to Republicans and conservative media attacking Obama like we haven't seen since... every day since he became a legitimate threat to win the Democratic nomination in 08.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:38 a.m.

    I didn't know that flip-flopping was a religion.

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:52 a.m.

    Well that's good news. When he loses the election we won't have to see all the excuses about him not being elected BECAUSE he is a mormon.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:55 a.m.

    Views from outside DSNews:

    *'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11

    From the DSNews:

    *'President Obama's purported 'weird'-Mormon strategy against Mitt Romney will backfire, pundits say' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 08/10/11

    *'Polls: Mormonism won't hurt Mitt Romney like Perry might' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 09/06/11


    Outisde:

    *'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

    "(Robert) Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,' and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. ... Asked by Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No.' "

    Today:

    *'For most Republican voters, Mitt Romney's faith is not an issue' - Title, today.

    2 things:

    1) The DSNews, like many posters, have claimed WITHOUT reason, that Obama was going to 'attack' Romneys' faith.

    He has not.

    Ever.

    2) The very people Mormons typically vote for, the Republican party and the Deseret News have made more of an issue about Mitt Romney's faith...

    than the very people they are villify for doing so.

    Conclusion:

    What does Obama or any Democrat have to do for 'purported' reports...?

    Nothing.

  • Cats Somewhere in Time, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:55 a.m.

    Unfortunately, it probably will take a disaster like Obama to get a Mormon elected to the presidency, but I think that's what will probably happen. We can't afford another four years of this situation. Romney is our only hope to beat him. I think most Republicans and independents are coming to that realization regardless of what they think of Mormons.

    Go Mitt!

    P.S. Dear Susan in Va: If you think Romney's ad is the most dishonest thing you've ever seen, you have VERY little experience in politics.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:02 a.m.

    It has never been Romney's faith that detered me from voting for him...

    *'Romney criticizes Obama's 'lazy' comment to CEOs' - By Jim Davenport - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/15/11

    'Obama's campaign spokesman said Romney's got it wrong and that the president was trying to encourage business leaders to create jobs.'

    *'First Romney TV ad blasts Obama' - By Mercedes White, Deseret News - 11/22/11

    'Critics say the ad uses some of the Obama clips out of context, especially when the president says "If we keep talking about the economy, we are going to lose." It appears that in that instance, Obama was quoting an aide to then-2008 opponent Sen. John McCain (sic) That might be beside the point though because...'

    It was Romney's ACTIONS.

    Such as, lying.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:05 a.m.

    Romney's record:

    *'Mitt Romney steers clear of Ohio health, union issues' - By Dan Sewell - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/25/11

    Then:

    *'Mitt Romney reverses himself, supports anti-union law' - By Philip Elliott - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/26/11

    Obama:

    Promise:
    *'Obama HRC Speech: "I Will End Don't Ask, Don't Tell," Says President Obama' - By CHRISTINE SIMMONS - Huffington Post - 10/10/09

    Delivery:
    *'Obama signs 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal' - By Pauline Jelinek - AP - Published by DSnews - 12/22/10

    Promise:
    *'Obama to pull combat troops from Iraq by August 2010' - CNN - 02/26/09

    Delivery:
    *'Last U.S. combat brigade leaves Iraq' - By Rebecca Santana - AP - Published by DSNews - 08/19/10

    *'Osama bin Laden Killed: 'Justice Is Done,' President Says' - By DEAN SCHABNER - ABC News - 05/01/2011

    *'Obama announces total Iraq troop withdrawal' - By Ben Feller - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/21/2011

    Romney:

    *'GOP contenders argue on Iran' - By Kasie Hunt - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/12/11

    "If we re-elect Barack Obama, Iran will have a nuclear weapon. And if you elect Mitt Romney, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon," vowed the former Massachusetts governor.'

    Your choice.

  • speed66 Heber City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:12 a.m.

    For those who aren't going to vote for him anyway, his religion is a non-issue. For others, it is likely to become a greater and greater issue assuming he can get past Gingrich and his inability to be honest.

    I do enjoy the DN's need to maintain the idea that mormons are victims. I disagree that opposing the beliefs of the mormon church as bigotry. I don't like Scientology either and would never vote for a Scientologist, that isn't bigotry its a decision based on ideology and belief systems.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:15 a.m.

    m.g. scott | 7:45 a.m. Nov. 23, 2011
    LAYTON, UT

    Painting those who don't agree with Mitt Romney as bigots who don't like Mormons is totally missing the truth. There may be bigots who won't vote for him because of his religion but there are so many more that don't like Obama because of his race. I really appreciate Joseph Smith's example in handling criticism. He asked himself if the criticism could have been justified in some way and if so he wanted to improve his life. When Bloom accuses Mormons of being led by an oligarchy of plutocrats is it just because of bigotry? Translators left out many plain and precious truths when translating the Bible because they did not like them. Do we skip over Jacob 2 and James 2 and similar scriptures in our Sunday School classes? How often do you see references to Elder Packer's October 2007 Conference address.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:19 a.m.

    Honestly, as a lifetime Republican and conservative, I would vote for Mitt Romney EXCEPT for the fact that he is Mormon. That is the main reason I won't vote for him. As the first comment noed, Mormons see Mitt's campaign as an extension of their public relations campaign, and a way to try to legitimize Mormonism. THAT is what I bristle at: the self-promotional, self-importance of the Mormon mentality. It is a form of narcissism, really, and comes across as arrogant and imperialistic.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    To Cats.

    Let me show you how it works.

    Cats Writes "Romney's ad is the most dishonest thing"

    I quoted you exactly, although not completely.

    You tell me. Was I being honest?

  • Band of Sisters RIVERTON, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:31 a.m.

    Voting for Obama, and not voting for Romney because of his faith, is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with that.

  • Floyd Johnson Broken Arrow, OK
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:37 a.m.

    I M LDS 2
    In contrast to the "Mormons" you describe, this Mormon is very concerned with Mormons in Politics. Politicians are very polarizing individuals by nature. It is not difficult to imagine a scenario where an individual states "the only Mormon I know is the president, and he is a disaster."

    Although most Americans would vote for a Mormon, I am concerned with the few Republicans in swing states that could alter the election by not voting. Specifically those that live in North West Florida. I am not sure that the hatred for Obama will overcome the long standing prejudices in that key state, and that may be the difference in the election. Mormon's needed a democratic candidate.

  • Ok Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    Mitt Romney is a flip-flopper who fans his run for the presidency with a forked tongue. He will not be elected president and he will blame it on being a mormon. He is hurting not only himself but other mormons as well. Unfortunate.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    @Band of Sisters
    "Voting for Obama, and not voting for Romney because of his faith, is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with that. "

    I think it's more like doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:50 a.m.

    Floyd Johnson | 9:37 a.m. Nov. 23, 2011
    Broken Arrow, OK
    I M LDS 2
    In contrast to the "Mormons" you describe, this Mormon is very concerned with Mormons in Politics. Politicians are very polarizing individuals by nature. It is not difficult to imagine a scenario where an individual states "the only Mormon I know is the president, and he is a disaster."

    @Floyd Johnson, my sentiments exactly. There are too many people not seeing the forest thru the trees here. I think that Romney as President would be a disaster for the church.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    Anyone else feeling badly in need of diversity?
    This daily(sometimes more than daily) discussion of Mitt's Mormonism gets so very tiring.
    Who knows if the guy will get the nomination? But if the DN keeps pushing and pushing this "Mormon Wonderfulness", the public will become even suspicious of the religion. Why continue this day after day ? Why is the DN trying sooooooo hard on this issue?
    Checking out Calif. Arizona, Oregon, Washington and other state publications.
    Whew, need a break from the persistent daily dose of Mittification!

  • Anti Government Alpine, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:56 a.m.

    Who cares about his faith. The guy invented obamacare before oblamo himself!

    This guy is a spender. He is not a conservative. He is a raging moderate.

    I'm tired of conservatives giving up and settling. That is what got us Bush who was a huge spender. That said Bushs spending now looks like chump-change though when compared to oblamo.

    Eventually when all the this fake crap the government is feeding the citizens collapses on its own weight people will wish they would have made different choices.

    People are interested in anything they can get from government and it is a stupid electorate that can't figure out where the government gets their money. They get it all from you and when that is not enough to fund all the corruption they are borrowing and it is effectively going on a credit that you owe for and all without your permission.

    Fools.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 23, 2011 10:01 a.m.

    Had Mit held to his guns as a Progressive Republican, I would had supported him in a second. But the fact that he bends and panders to the extreme right, alters who he is to appease those who he thinks he need to get through the primaries, is a real problem for me.

    Pardon the phrase, but the devil i know is far better than the devil i don't know. What Romney will do in office is anyones guess because his record is evidently not who he is. The Olympics is a prime example. Today, he is Mr. Free Enterprise - anti big government. And yet, without the HUGE infusion of public money into infrastructure, the Olympics would have never been possible. Even with his skills in righting that bloated ship, he still financially would not have been able to do what was done without public money.

    But today, he wants government out of everything - so he says. And it is those inconsistencies that have him in the mud at 20-something percent. If he gets through the primaries, I think he has a good chance because he can center his self again. Until then, religion is his least issue.

  • Susan in VA Alexandria, VA
    Nov. 23, 2011 10:31 a.m.

    to m.g. scott -
    Romney ran a 60sec ad and it used a tape of Obama saying "If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose." It made is sound like that was Obama's words. And then Romney went on to criticize the President for those words. The entire quote should have been... "Senator McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, 'If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose.'" - What Romney did in that ad was deceitful and totally dishonest and he was trying to paint a picture of President Obama that simply doesn't exist. Now, I have my problems with Obama, but this was the last straw as far as me even thinking about voting Republican in THIS race. I realize that all politicians do this, but I hold anyone who belongs to the Mormon Church to a higher standard (yes, I'm a member) and I wonder why he felt the need to do this?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Nov. 23, 2011 10:54 a.m.

    You have to wonder if the DesNews is actually following the election or just hanging out down at BYU in the religious faculty lounge.

  • Bruce A. Frank San Jose, CA
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:05 a.m.

    I believe that the media's claim of religious bias against Mitt is a straw man. The left fears Mitt, as they do all of the potential Republican candidates, because he is not of the radical progressive radical camp. But, Mitt is tainted in the minds of the conservatives because many of us view him as McCain light. The two most critically destructive programs are Obamacare and what amounts to "cap and trade," based on the global warming hoax, administratively imposed by the EPA and other Federal agencies. Mitt's statements of a belief in human caused global warming and his defensive track record of Romneycare raise a LARGE red flag for conservative voters.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:17 a.m.

    Bruce A. Frank | 11:05 a.m. Nov. 23, 2011
    San Jose, CA

    I'm sure you are an environmental scientist who has spent a lot of time on this issue or you would not dare to be so authoritative in your comments. Would you care to share some of your evidence that this is a hoax? Or is your source a talk show mega millionaire?

  • Bankshot7 Clearfield, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:22 a.m.

    When Utah legislators (Mormons) pass laws that are considered inhibiting compared to other states, it resonates as LDS Church Government in the press. When tourists come to Utah and are subjected to laws that seem designed to move your actions and morals toward becoming a member of the state majority it is relayed upon their return to reality back home. It is considered normal for adults to drink alcohol, coffee, and tea. When they are considered less than first class humans here in Utah for doing the same, it resonates. A Mormon president is impossible to consider when the impression has been instilled that he will try to lead all of Americana into the land of Zion and we will all be forced to bend to the will of the LDS doctrine and Word of Wisdom. That concept is unfathomable to those of other faiths or even no faith. This opinion is so well in-trenched that there will never be a LDS president until it can be trusted that the LDS religion can stop thrusting their morals onto the general public. In other words, Live and let Live.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:27 a.m.

    ' A Mormon president is impossible to consider when the impression has been instilled that he will try to lead all of Americana into the land of Zion and we will all be forced to bend to the will of the LDS doctrine and Word of Wisdom.' - Bankshot7 | 11:22 a.m. Nov. 23, 2011

    Supported.

    *'Romney: God wants US to lead, not follow' - By Steve Peoples - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/07/11

    And:

    *'GOP contenders argue on Iran' - By Kasie Hunt - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/12/11

    "If we re-elect Barack Obama, Iran will have a nuclear weapon. And if you elect Mitt Romney, Iran will not have a nuclear weapon," vowed the former Massachusetts governor.'

    I apologize if this offends some, but I am quoting Mitt Romney.

    And I do NOT support another war based on the lie of 'Nuclear Weapons.'

    Like Iraq.

    That 'only' cust America $3 trillion dollars and...

    *'U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,485 - AP - Published by the DSNews - 11/22/2011

    far, FAR too many American lives.

    For Nuclear Weapons that were...

    never found to this day.

  • AZRods Maricopa, AZ
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:42 a.m.

    For the many here who whine about the DN printing yet another article about Romney's faith etc etc. As if it's only an issue in Utah...
    And how ONLY the DN does such silly self serving things.
    Try reading the headline on AZCENTRAL.
    Maybe the need to vent hatred and bigotry will be further satisfied by many here, by seeing it on full display somewhere outside of Utah.
    Maybe Pagan could share some more of his worn out/non related news articles down here too.
    Just makes ya feel warm and fuzzy, just in time for Christmas.

  • JWB Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 11:44 a.m.

    I think this type of article doesn't do positive things for Mitt Romney nor Jon Huntsman or any other Congressional or Senatorial candidate running for office. Huckabee may say "vote for Romney" but most people do care about the religion aspect, as evidenced in the last run for President with demeaning language about Governor Romney in every breath by Huckabee. This morning on Bill Bennett's Morning in America it comes out where moderators mention the religion about both Huntsman and Romney, "the Mormons". Dr. Bennett is a pretty nice person as other moderators on radio "talk" shows but religion is a factor for both these candidates. Governor Romney may have a good chance but it was in December 2007 that John McCain turned almost hostile on Governor Romney for stating that the "ECONOMY" would be the biggest factor of the election in 2008. The financial market, private and government, fell apart within months of that debate. People accepted Senator McCain more than Romney but in reality, Governor Romney may have done a better job than our current elected President, especially with the economy. I can't remember any real discussion by Senator McCain on the economy, even when it was failing

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 12:09 p.m.

    @Susan in VA

    I share your concern.

    Last night, I studied our next Sunday School Lesson on 1 and 2 Peter as well as Jude.

    Look at 1 Peter Chapter 3. Look at the description of the chapter. You will notice it reads:

    "...Saints should live by gospel standards...".

    I know it must be in the scriptures someplace, but I have yet to find where it reads that saints should live by gospel standards...

    except...

    when running for a political office.

    I'm sure Romneyites as well as others who are equally well versed in the scriptures will inform me of my error and help me understand this "exception".

  • Mayfair City, Ut
    Nov. 23, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    Bankshot7:"will try to lead all of Americana into the land of Zion and we will all be forced to bend to the will of the LDS doctrine and Word of Wisdom"

    This is just silly.

    The LDS Church has difficulty getting many people who are already members of their Church to follow and adhere to the Word of Wisdom, or other LDS doctrines.

    If its difficult to get many members to do so, why would anyone worry a President would have any ability to convince non-members to do so??

  • ThinksIThink SEATTLE, WA
    Nov. 23, 2011 2:30 p.m.

    Win or lose, Mitt is bad for the LDS Church. The more information people gather about the LDS Church one of two things happens: 1) the LDS Church becomes more moderate, and/or 2) members resign or become inactive.

    Gradually, people are becoming more comfortable researching the history of the LDS Church. Heck, even FARMS (or MormonVoices now) has enough information to allow someone to learn about the true history and make an informed decision.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Nov. 23, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    I once read, that any man who would cheat on his wife and family, would cheat on his country. I don't feel Mitt is a cheater.

    Much of Obamas past is hidden, so we don't know, but I wouldn't trust anyone with a cheating past.

    Christian values are important.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 23, 2011 5:19 p.m.

    ThinksThink.... I get what you are saying, but if any institution comprised of men (and women) is measured on the "perfectness" of its members - no organization could stand by their history. Not a single one.

    And there lies the problem with all of this... the assumption that there is perfection anywhere to be found. Joseph Smith was not perfect, Brigham Young wasn't either. Neither is Romney, and certainly Glen Beck isn't. The Republican party isn't, nor is the Democratic party.

    So I am not sure what studying the history of the church is supposed to reveal that would impact things much differently than any other candidates history and faith would impact them.

    Yes, a large percentage of LDS people are clueless to the faiths real history - they have the Friend and New Era versions of it. So it is true with any other faith as well. This is a false argument, and one if Romney has little to no control over.

    What he does have control over is his own policy positions and actions.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 5:55 p.m.

    The only way it wouldn't matter is if religion were kept out of politics altogether, as it should be.

  • Michigander Westland, MI
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:19 p.m.

    Romney's lack of integrity is the issue.

  • The_Kaiser Holladay, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 8:41 p.m.

    Romney is:

    Pro-torture
    Pro-Patriot Act
    Pro-war

    Consider these facts when voting for him, even if he is Mormon. Too many Mormons that I know don't even know anything about Romney's platform, or what he plans to do.

    In other words, they are voting for him because of a shared religion.

    This is a heinous act. If you vote for someone, vote for them because you have done your homework! If not, there is no difference in this and the guy in your ward "that has an investment opportunity for you". Religious trust is a veiled evil.

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:32 p.m.

    Romney is a good mormon. He has my vote.

  • ThinksIThink SEATTLE, WA
    Nov. 23, 2011 9:51 p.m.

    @utah blue devils,

    I think my last post was confusing. I don't think the LDS members reflect poorly on the LDS Church. I think the problem is historical facts.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Nov. 24, 2011 9:03 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil,

    "...but if any institution comprised of men (and women) is measured on the "perfectness" of its members - no organization could stand by their history. Not a single one."

    That is a true statement, with which few would disagree.

    The problem is that the LDS Church and its members CLAIM that the LDS Church is not just any other "human" organization. If the LDS Church claimed merely to be just another human organization, invented by human beings, doing the best they could do to do some good in the world, then the world would overlook the faults and imperfections of the Church, its history, and its members and leaders.

    But that is not what the LDS Church claims to be.

    Instead, it claims to be "the one and only true and living Church on the face of the earth"; It claims to be the ONLY Church authorized by God; it claims to be founded and organized directly by God and revelation from God, rather than by the minds of fallible men.

    Either Mormons and the Mormon Church need to demonstrate (historically as well as contemporaneously) that it IS "the kingdom of god on earth", or stop making divine claims.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 24, 2011 7:11 p.m.

    @worf
    "Much of Obamas past is hidden, so we don't know, but I wouldn't trust anyone with a cheating past."

    You sound like Glenn Beck. It's like you're saying "I don't know that Obama cheated on his wife... but I'm not not saying that he has."

    "Christian values are important. "

    Obama is a Christian and frankly any LDS person who thinks Obama isn't a Christain better not be whining when people don't consider Romney a Christian, since if they do... they're hypocrites.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 24, 2011 9:49 p.m.

    Worf.....not exactly sure what your point is. Is it your claim that because we don't know something that there must be something? Huh?

    What exactly is it that you don't know that makes you so sure there is something wrong with his marriage. Exactly who is supposed to be coming forward telling us nothing happened so that we all can feel comfortable?

    Vanka, I get the point you are trying to make but in many ways it makes no sense either. You can have something where perfect or near perfect knowledge is obtainable, and yet acting on that knowledge in a perfect way is impossible because oneself isn't perfect. It is possible to have perfect doctrine and yet have no one live it perfectly.

    But further to your point, there are far too many LDS who view themselves as being perfect or expect those around them to be perfect. This I will completely agree with. But there are also many more who are compassionate, and accept people for who they are.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Nov. 25, 2011 12:26 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil,

    "You can have something where perfect or near perfect knowledge is obtainable, and yet acting on that knowledge in a perfect way is impossible because oneself isn't perfect. It is possible to have perfect doctrine and yet have no one live it perfectly."

    To know the good is to do the good.

    As such, No, you cannot claim to have perfect knowledge without acting on it.

    Unless, of course, you are willing to raise hypocrisy to the level of religion, and enshrine mere idealogues as our best examples?

  • OnlytheCross Bakersfield, CA
    Nov. 25, 2011 6:09 a.m.

    I have tried numerous times to post here in simple, straight-forward terms what the religious issues are with evangelicals from my community's experience. Whenever I mention Mitt's flip flops only, I'm posted. But when I list the 4-5 major changes that are pardigm-shifts within the Church's doctrinal history, I get denied. The Mormon church is seen and judged by outsiders for all their doctrines -and not just their promotion of family values. If Mitt were a fine Muslim family man, many evangelicals would like him but not vote for him based solely on his doctrinal issues. Myself included.

    At the end of the day, I want to know which God my President is praying to for help with his weighty decisions. Good personal morality aside, I want to know which God he trusts in. This is the same reason why Pres. Obama's pastor was a key issue.

    If the DN really cared about listening to the reasons why certain of us evangelicals would vote Newt, Perry or Cain over Mitt, we would not be denied listing out reasons. Rev. Jeffress told you, just in the wrong venue and you never listened to his explanation either.

  • Shazandra Bakersfield, CA
    Nov. 25, 2011 6:49 a.m.

    It's a very simple issue for conservative, Biblical Christians where religion is ultimately the last issue remaining: Trust.

    Can you trust that your candidate, gender or race aside, will follow the Constitution, God's Word and his conscience? If any of those 3 are in question, there will be equivocation. That's Romney's dilemma and few in his camp care enough to fully expose him to that scrutiny. Frankly, I may vote for him if he could ever sell me on his trust question.

    If he gets the party nomination, and the LDS church opens all the stops with accessible transparency, we might see our first Mormon president. But only on those terms. If you're ready for full disclosure, that would be a game changer for me.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Nov. 25, 2011 8:55 a.m.

    Vanka - your comment makes no sense what so ever.

    I can know without a doubt what in baseball where the strike zone is, and yet fail to throw a stike every time.

    A muscian can know how to play a musical piece perfectly on an instrument, and yet even a masters still make mistakes.

    Where do you get this presumption that if you know something, even believe it it, and strive to live what you think you know, that somehow because human imperfection inserts itself, that therefor means what you think isn't true.

    People make mistakes, regardless of their level of knowledge. Math is a perfect science, and yet mathematical errors happen. Since these error happen, does that mean math is no longer perfect?

    A knowledge of something you know to be true may indeed result in an action, but because the actor is not perfect does not mean that resulting action will be perfect.

    This explains a lot of your thought process Vanka and why you reject any form higher than yourself....

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Nov. 25, 2011 6:02 p.m.

    UtahBlueDevil,

    "I can know without a doubt what in baseball where the strike zone is, and yet fail to throw a stike every time."

    Clearly, you have never played baseball! Bad analogy, as is your analogy to music. Try studying up on Aristotle's aesthetics.

    "Where do you get this presumption that if you know something, even believe it it, and strive to live what you think you know, that somehow because human imperfection inserts itself, that therefor means what you think isn't true."

    Try Plato: To know the good is to do the good. If you fail to do the good (perfectly), then you do not know it. Simple. Axiomatic. Inescapable.

    "Math is a perfect science" - clearly, you don't understand Math, either.

    "This explains a lot of your thought process Vanka and why you reject any form higher than yourself...."

    Huh? Such an absurd presumption is completely unfounded. Why the personal attack?

    I repeat, either stop claiming to be the "one and only true and living Church", or else live up to it... perfectly. Otherwise, you make yourselves the epitome of hypocrisy.