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Brad Rock: BYU-Utah rivalry … remember that?

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  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 8:57 p.m.

    A 54-10 beat down at LES and 7 Utah wins in the last 10 games.

    Enough said.

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    Nov. 5, 2011 8:58 p.m.

    anyone who reads the comment boards on here knows it still means something. I agree that it's different though.

  • i luv UTES Sandy, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 9:03 p.m.

    Remember that one year when Utah put a smack down on BYU 54-10 at LES?

    Good times.

  • AK Cougar Palmer, AK
    Nov. 5, 2011 9:57 p.m.

    The game is obviously more important to Utes than Cougars.

  • PAC 12 loves U Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 5, 2011 10:28 p.m.

    @ AK Cougar

    "The game is obviously more important to Utes than Cougars"

    Of course you would say that considering your school is on the losing end of the overall rivalry record.

  • Go Utes Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 10:49 p.m.

    To Brad Rock,

    Couldn't disagree more. The rivalry indeed feels different, but it is not over or irrelevant. Of course it is not being talked about as much this November. Duh. The game was moved to September. How often was the game talked about in August or September of each year when it was played in November. Your argument is like saying that Christmas is less relevant or fading because people talk about it less in July. Yes, we have all moved on from the game and it feels funny to be in November and not have things heating up for it, but it will still be intense next year. Are you saying that BYU fans are not going to want some big time revenge next year for the smack down they received this year? Are you saying Ute fans will not want another beating over their rivals to the south? Contrary to your recent conversatinos, the game has come up in my conversations as of late. So far it is one of the big highlights of the Utes' season, which has had many low lights. The rivalry is a lot of fun and I disagree that it is fading.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:04 p.m.

    BYU is desperate to fill out November scheduling. They hardly have any future opponents scheduled in November that are not in the WAC.

    Stanford plays Notre Dame in November. Other Pac teams play other non-conference teams in November.

    What if Utah went to the Pac-12, and got permission to play BYU in November, under the condition that for there are 2 games at RES for every 1 game at LES.

    BYU would then have something to look forward to in November instead of byes and Wac games.

  • deibu Roseburg, OR
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:18 p.m.

    I admit the Utah game has never had any special significance for me as a fan, not being from Utah. When I was at BYU the big games were against Washington or Miami or Oregon, etc. Granted in recent years as Utah has become more competitive, the game has gained a certain degree of infamy due to classless fans, media, and too often players. Under current TV arrangements, the BYU-Utah game will probably be a game I can only watch every other year. Let's face it, if it is not on national TV most people outside of Utah simply don't care. On the flip side, I am amazed at the number of people who now talk BYU football with me on Monday morning--even during a less than brilliant year. Anyway, for me, BYU-Utah will continue to just be another game on the schedule against a quality PAC 12 opponent. This is probably the feeling of most non-Utahns. That said, there will always be a rivalry, although hopefully one with a lot less embarrassing nastiness, for those who are from Utah.

  • See It SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:21 p.m.

    BYU's biggest rivalry these days comes in beating up on itself. I can't believe how poorly they have played in the games that really mattered. A BCS Conference is a pipe dream.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:26 p.m.

    @Uncle Rico

    You just don't get it. Many Utah fans and others associated with the Utah program just don't want to play BYU every year. Not even on a 2 home games for 1 basis. It has to do with only three non conference games available. Why exclude Utah State for BYU? Why limit our games to teams west of Denver? Our rivalry was great when we were in the same conference(s) - winning often meant a conference championship. But not any more... we have moved on!

  • Keisels Beard Overton, NV
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:33 p.m.

    "What if Utah went to the Pac-12, and got permission to play BYU in November, under the condition that for there are 2 games at RES for every 1 game at LES. "

    Why would BYU accept a 2 for 1 against a team with a smaller stadium?

  • jake heaps = ben olson Orem, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:51 p.m.

    Re: Keisels Beard

    "Why would BYU accept a 2 for 1 against a team with a smaller stadium? "

    So they could play a non-Wac team in November.

    Independence : being in the WAC but not playing the top 3 teams in the conference.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:56 p.m.

    "Granted in recent years as Utah has become more competitive, the game has gained a certain degree of infamy due to classless fans, media, and too often players."
    --deibu

    Must we always bring up Max Hall...

  • bigutefan Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 6, 2011 1:05 a.m.

    @ Kiesel

    In case you haven't heard, Utah is a BCS school, your team is still a non-BCS school. Most teams that the PAC-12 signs contracts with for out of conference games are 2-1 home/away games. Has nothing to do with your stadium. Utah has hit elite status. In order to keep the rivalry, BYU is going to have to concede and play 2-1 games or the rivalry will end. If the PAC-12 makes it mandatory, which they very well could, then BYU will have some thinking to do. I miss the games being at the end of the year, but from here on out, Utah is going to dominate Provo. The game needs to be in the beginning of a season to gain confidence. I know Provo fans won't understand this, but Utah has now played 7 BCS games in a row, it's a whole different world, and unfortunately nobody is knocking on the door in Provo. Time to examine why that is and how to get it together. Less drama would be a good start!

  • TR AMERICAN FORK, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 1:06 a.m.

    I have not even bothered to read the rest of the comments on this article but here are my personal feelings as a cougar fan for what its worth.

    I respect Utah, but have a mild dislike for them.
    I think Utah fans are the most annoying fans on the face of the earth.
    Unless Utah is playing BYU I cheer for them.
    I think Utah has a classy and outstanding coaching staff, possibly the best in the country.
    Utah players are some of the nicest I have met.
    The rivalry means nothing to me anymore.

  • International Cougar Fan Tacoma, WA
    Nov. 6, 2011 1:06 a.m.

    All BYU games are televised on ESPN or BYUtv! That means I get to watch all their games here in Korea.

    Nobody is talking about the Utes outside of Utah because you can't watch their games. I think BYU has the much better deal! I am loving Independence and I don't really see the benefits of going to a conference like the PAC12 where very few people get to watch you play.

  • Rwright Seattle, WA
    Nov. 6, 2011 1:30 a.m.

    OK, so times are changing. What should be done about it? I can't tell if this is crying about Utah's elevation, an attempt to poke a stick into the BYU fan hive, or unhappiness that a writer will have to develop more than the same tired themes for his paper. What was the point of this, Brad?

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 3:52 a.m.

    Cougs would never trade a victory over utah for a victory over tcu. The rivalry game is still in the minds and water cooler discussions whenever alumni of the 2 schools start talking college football.

    Suggestion to Brad - buy a watercooler for the newsroom.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 6, 2011 7:55 a.m.

    @bigutefan,

    I think that you need to check your history books. BYU has played home and home series with pac10 teams for years. Including legit "elite teams" like UW, USC, UCLA, and Cal and Oregon as well as bottom of the pac teams like Oregon St, WSU, ASU and U of A. There is not a requirement from the pac10 for 2:1 scheduling, and as a bottom of the pac team they don't have the credibility to make such demands with their quaint little home field.

  • TR AMERICAN FORK, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 9:13 a.m.

    I would trade a win over Utah for one over TCU. Maybe its just because if we can beat TCU we can beat Utah.

  • TheTruth801 SLC, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 9:55 a.m.

    I don't understand how moving the BYU-Utah game to the beginning of the year or the change in conferences minimize the rivalry. USC and Notre Dame have never been in the same conference and it is a great game. I know it is at the end of the year.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Nov. 6, 2011 10:00 a.m.

    It isn't just having "something to play for" though. BYU and USU had a great rivalry when you were never sure who would win. Now if USU wins or even comes close its time to fire coaches and bench players.

    I think that may be happening in the Utah BYU rivalry. When the odds were very even it was a great game. Now Utah is beginning to pull away, having won three out of four games. With the recruiting advantage Utah has from being in the PAC-12, I suspect you will see more lopsided scores such as this year's 54-10 shellacking in the future. Then the Utah BYU game will go the way of the BYU USU series. It will be played occasionally and nobody will get too worked up about it.

  • fightirishcoug ATLANTA, GA
    Nov. 6, 2011 10:40 a.m.

    Personally I am happy to see the rivalry end. When I was a student, first at BYU and then Notre Dame, football was secondary to academics, both schools are far superior to schools, such as U of U. Even though my father was an alum and a professor at Utah, we cheered for both schools when they were not playing each other. The U of U, unfortunately in the past ten to twelve years has because an institution of hate. I can tell you, here in the South East part of the country, nobody knows or cares who the Utah is. Utah is a joke here. BYU, however, is well known and respected.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 11:01 a.m.

    "A lot of BYU fans nowadays would trade a win over Utah for a win over TCU."
    You can't trade what you don't have.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 11:33 a.m.

    54-10...

    proves, that regardless of how much Utah fans (or disconnected sportswriters) may try to downplay the rivalry, BYU will always be the biggest game on Utah's schedule.

    Utah fans would rather go winless in the PAC 12 than lose to BYU 56-6 in RES.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 11:39 a.m.

    Who am I sir?

    "winning often meant a conference championship"

    Not for Utah, which has only won 6 conference championships in the last 60 years.

    Utah fans are simply scared of BYU and are just trying to limit the pain when the worm turns again and BYU starts dominating the series again, like the Cougars have for the last 40 years - BYU 26 Utah 14 since 1972.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 1:59 p.m.

    Re: Truth Machine

    No BYU is not Utah's biggest game.

    However when BYU comes and talks trash about Utah, we can naturally bring up the head to head game to prove the point the Utah is better.

  • MN Ute SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 4:18 p.m.

    K, normally I don't like addressing hate-posts, but this is ridiculous. To both the Ute and BYU fans, chill.

    1. @fightirishcoug: you said that in the past 12 years, the U of U has become an institution of hate. While I admit many Ute posts are over the top, so are many BYU posts. Some of the posts I've seen on both sides are insane in how malicious they are, but it's not just the utes. Also, BYU and Notre Dame ARE better than the UofU in SOME areas of study. I'm studying biomed, and I picked the U over MN, Madison, and Purdue because it's ranked the same and leaves ND and BYU in the dust in the rankings. BYU is an incredible accounting school, and ND is great, I don't deny that, but give a good college the credit it's due.

  • MN Ute SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 4:26 p.m.

    Truthmachine: nice job limiting the game list to favor BYU. Be fair and look at it into the 3 clear periods of the program.
    1896-1971: Utah 41, BYU 8
    1972-1992: Utah 2, BYU 19
    1993-Now: Utah 12, BYU 7

    The cougars had a great streak, not denying it, but give credit to the streak the Utes had before yours and are having now.
    Also, BYU is no longer the biggest game on the schedule, that was actually against USC, and then again against UW, and then again against ASU, and then Cal, and then again next week vs. UCLA, because those matter for bowls. I'm not saying the BYU game's not important, it determines whether we can go undefeated or not (not saying we will, but you get the point), but it's now just a non conference game.
    now, I have no doubt BYU's offense is gonna get better with Tanner Mangum coming, but so will Utah's, and our D remains strong. I wish the cougs the best luck, but I doubt you'll find any scared Utes up here on the hill.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 6, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Uncle Rico

    54-10 is using the score of the game as his screen name. Nothing SCREAMS obsession like a fan who uses the score of supposedly "meaningless" game as his moniker.

    MN Ute

    The difference between BYU's period of dominance and Utah's period of dominance is BYU has had success on a national scale - 17 Top 25 finishes in the last 34 years, while Utah has two BCS wins, and NOTHING else on a national scale.

    National Championships
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    National Individual Award Winners
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame
    BYU 6
    Utah 1 (no players)

    BYU has almost as many AP Top 25 Finishes in the last five years (4), as Utah has in its entire history.

    NOBODY, besides fans of the rivalry care about head-to-head.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Nov. 6, 2011 6:08 p.m.

    I'm a PAC12 guy and a BYU guy. As a Husky, we had three big rivals, USC, UCLA, and Oregon. Washington State was not a real rivalry. We expected to beat WSU, and did, most of the time. Beating USC was a big deal.

    Utah is a non-entity in the PAC12. They are nobody's rival. Maybe they will be, but I suspect they'll be average, winning a few games but not enough to hate, like we do Oregon.

    BYU is completely different. It truly is a national brand, and BYU playing Utah is no more important to someone in Oklahoma than BYU playing Idaho. Utah is completely irrelevant to BYU's status. If BYU beats Utah, the world will not much notice. If BYU beats Texas or ND, then it will be an article in USA Today and featured on ESPN. Boise State vs BYU next year will be the biggest game for BYU.

    BYU has no need to play Utah except as a schedule filler. Drop Utah and give me anybody else in a BCS conference.

    This is now a meaningless rivalry for both sides.

  • chicagoborn WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 6:18 p.m.

    @Uteanymous
    And no one besides BYU fans care about that national championship that BYU won against a "very good" 6-6 Michigan team. But by all means, keep living in the past because BYU isn't going to be relevant anytime soon in the future. 1984 forever!

  • sportsman101 salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 6:36 p.m.

    @bluehusky LOL you byu delusional fans will say anything to make your irrelevant team look better than they really are. NOONE cares about byu especially teams from the eastcoast byu is an idaho to them the same way idaho is to byu thats the funny thing. byu isnt anyones rival everyone who you you said is THEIR rival. when you can start pulling in more athletes from the southeast like utah then you can say more ppl care about byu until then stop talkin, all you byu fans are annoying to the rest of the world.

  • IndianaCoug Bloomington, IN
    Nov. 6, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    RE: bigutefan

    "Utah has hit elite status".

    Glad to hear that all that is required to be "elite" is membership in a BCS conference. I can now tell all my friends that Indiana University is elite, thereby making me an elite person, right? I don't know why those from Michigan and OSU didn't believe this obviously true fact before... Fortunately, a highly regarded Ute fan--you know, a fan from that really prestigious "research" school in SLC--said it's true, so I guess I am now part of the elite. I will sleep well tonight. Thanks bigutefan

  • IndianaCoug Bloomington, IN
    Nov. 6, 2011 7:31 p.m.

    RE: sportsman101

    "NOONE cares about byu especially teams from the eastcoast byu is an idaho to them the same way idaho is to byu thats the funny thing."

    I'm just a little curious how you came to this conclusion? Last I checked ESPN wasn't doing random segments on the Idaho vandals, but they did two on BYU this week. When I lived in Connecticut and football season rolled around, miraculously all of my colleagues and neighbors knew who the cougars were and that they had a pretty decent team. True, there weren't a ton of BYU fans out there, but they certainly have a respected program... Maybe you don't consider CT part of the "eastcoast??" I'm amazed that this discussion board has become a "we're better than you" thread considering how horrible both BYU and Utah are right now. Let's wait to brag until one of these teams has actually accomplished something.

  • chicagoborn WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 7:45 p.m.

    I used to think that Ohio St fans were the most annoying and delusional fans in the country. Boy was I wrong. BlueHusky, schedule fillers which include Utah in your opinion don't usually beat another team in their house on prime time national TV by 44 points. BYU should drop Utah for another BCS team such as Indiana to save themselves from further embarrassment. If BYU beat Texas or ND then it would be featured on ESPN? Oh man, give me a break! Keep the knee slappers coming.

  • niners SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 7:53 p.m.

    The only reason BYU is a national brand is because it is affiliated with the LDS church and there are LDS members throughout the nation...does this make sense to all of you BYU fans claiming BYU is a national brand? You really think BYU became a national brand based on WAC championships in the 80's? You have to be kidding me right?

    @fightirishcoug
    "I can tell you, here in the South East part of the country, nobody knows or cares who the Utah is. Utah is a joke here. BYU, however, is well known and respected."

    I have lived in Georgia and South Carolina, and I will tell you right now that BYU is not anymore well known or respected than Utah...Actually after 2008 Utah is more respected after beating down Bama!

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 8:10 p.m.

    Re: Uteanymous

    As I said frequently in a famous movie: "Back in '82..."

    Unfortunately know one now cares what happened back then. Maybe we should stop living in the past.

    Why don't you give us a statistical break down of BYU's upcoming opponent Idaho?

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 8:18 p.m.

    @indianacoug no team in the sec (besides maybe ole miss) would schedule byu as a "tough" opponent just ask tcu what they think. if patterson says he would rather schedule a better team from a better conference than play byu if he doesnt have to then thats saying something. but maybe not to you byu fans and thats fine to the rest of the world.

  • I Still Can't Say It Holladay, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 8:21 p.m.

    @Truth Machine

    The Utes haven't gone winless in the PAC :)

    The Provo school is no longer the biggest game on Utah's schedule -- not even close. In fact, Saturday's game vs. Arizona was much, much bigger for the Utes than that thing in September.

    Who's the biggest game each year on the Provo school's schedule? We all know who it is. If you want to play the Utes, agree to the RES-RES-LES rotation and at the beginning of the year.

    Utah calls the shots now.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 6, 2011 8:51 p.m.

    I have to laugh at all these cougar fans claiming Utah isn't their biggest opponent of the season. We're the only team that has played to a sell-out crowd in LES since Nov. 28, 2009. Or in other words, since the LAST time Utah played at LES!

  • UteinIdaho Sandpoint, ID
    Nov. 6, 2011 10:13 p.m.

    Wow what an idiotic article. And, as usual, what a bunch of idiotic comments. I didn't bother reading the second half of the article, or the second half of comments, but my favorite response was from Keisel. Ya, cause it's not about the rivalry, or the quality of opponent. It's about stadium size???? One of my other favorites was from Internationalzoob. You can watch your team play the bottom half of the WAC and 1AA schools on ESPN and byutv, so being independent is BETTER than the Pac12?? Get real buddy. Anyone with half a brain knows that Utah's situation in the Pac12 doesn't even compare to byu being in the IWC( Independent WAC) And for the record, I live in Sandpoint Idaho. Just about in Canada, and I have been able to watch EVERY Utah game on Dishnet except the Montana St game, which I watched online

  • AllSeeingEye Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 10:44 p.m.

    Totally disagree with Rock on this one. Totally.

    The rivalry is the same as ever and always will be. The last time my football buddies and I talked about it was...let's see...last Friday?

    The idea that the rivaly game in the past was always a prelude to a conference championship, bowl game, or whatever, is silly. Check the facts on that one, it was not true most of the time.

    And, who are the experts Rock refers to--himself?

    Of course, when the game is not played in November there won't be as much hype about it in November. That's pretty obvious.

    But, so what? As long as the game is played, it will be the biggest sporting even in the state for the weeks preceeding the game.

    It is a gem of a game, which needs to continue.

    Long live the rivalry!

  • clintharris Saint George, Utah
    Nov. 7, 2011 7:48 a.m.

    There's nothing wrong with rivalries, and, no this one's not dead, just limping along for the moment.

    But, some of you sure take this to a level of immaturity that benefits you by hiding behind your user names. If you're not, you should be embarrassed by how ridiculous some of these posts are.