Nations have certain characteristics, one of those characteristics is borders.
All nations have them. People who come here illegally have broken our laws.
Either our laws mean something or they do not. If we start picking and choosing
which laws we enforce and which ones we do not, then we have crossed a line.The rights of people have historically been abused when they are subject
to the whims of those who control the levers of power. Ignoring one law, but not
another is no different. That is why we have the principle of Rule By Law.If a law is unjust it should be repealed. If our immigration laws are
unjust they should be fixed but not ignored.Unequal enforcement of
the law leads to serious problems. Double standards are never good.A
symbiotic relationship exists between illegal aliens and their employers and
landlords. I say we end it. We should offer large cash rewards to illegal aliens
who turn in their employers and their landlords. Set them at each others
throats. Not employer would dare hire them and not landlord would dare rent
housing to them.Problem solved.
The Alabama supporters of this discriminatory law want to gather evidence that a
significant amount of money is spent education the children of undocumented
residents. They oppose our long-established national tradition of
providing free public education for all residents and are seeking race-related
data to use as more ammunition against a popular target of national
discrimination.If they instead were to promote a broader and more
efficient visa system we could solve the problem a lot quicker by bringing in
the workforce we need without the stigma.
It seems to me that if I am REQUIRED to present my child's Social Security card
in order to enroll him, people without one ought to be required to provide some
form of identification to enroll their children.The SPLC and other
pro-amnesty groups simply want to hide the impact of illegal aliens on our
It appears the law worked. Good.
It is absolutely correct that this is about racism. In the 1950's it was about
"law and order" too. But the "law" was racist.Our new overly restricted, byzantine, incongruous, hypocritical and
haphazardly enforced immigration quotas are racist as well. They simply are.The poem on the Statue of Liberty reads:"Give me your
tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The
wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless,
tempest-tost to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"*This* was the ideal that welcomed the majority of our ancestors to these
shores. They didn't pony up wealth and stand in line for 15 years to 'wait
their turn'.They also didn't steal jobs and create crime. They
created industries, innovations, jobs, and strength.This is a new
concept, this idea of "legal" immigrants to our shores. It didn't
exist in the time of our Founders. They ceded to the Federal government the
powers only to set terms of becoming a citizen or defend against armed invasion.
Needlessly regulating peaceful migration was never a power granted to our
Federal government.This is scarcity mentality. It is the new
"zero population" craze.
Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center: "Today we have
a different stand in the schoolhouse door. We have efforts to intimidate
children who have a constitutional right to go to school."@John
C.C. of Payson: "They [Alambama Law supporters] oppose our long-established
national tradition of providing free public education for all residents and are
seeking race-related data to use as more ammunition against a popular target of
national discrimination."Can I just send some of these
"residents" to your house for your traditional handout?I
simply do not agree with something that results in a financial obligation on MY
part based on some "tradition" or "free education" cloaked
as some "Constitutional right."Hogwash!
@UtahVoter:In your ideal world of "anyone welcome here at
anytime" - would you have any restrictions?
Where in the constitution does it guarantee an education?
I believe in immigration... I think our current laws are too difficult. We are a
country built on immigration. This being said... If I was to go down to
Mexico... Just picked up and moved... I wonder... Could I enroll my kids in
school down there for free? BTW... None of the 5 of them speak spanish...
@Utahvoter....Yes it is about Racism if you consider Brown people a race....but
intelligent people prefer the use of the term "Illegal"....which
constitutes someone who is breaking or has no regard for the rule of law....a
common thread found in the Obama Culture.
@NTLet me turn that question around. What restrictions would you
have? When my ancestors came, there were none. Things seemed to work out.
It's my experience that centrally planned government interference often does
more harm than good at greater cost than is reasonable. It seems clear that
"ideal" central government "protections" are what bankrupted
the Soviets.@TamiThat's a great question. Where in the
Constitution does it guarantee an education to *anybody*? Citizen or not? I
have plenty of friends who agree that we should get out of the socialist
education business in the first place.But I'm more moderate. I just
want the *Federal* government out of education. I think local control is wiser
and more efficient. But then I hear complaints like in the Alpine district
where they claim they are losing *millions* to those [epithet epithet]
"illegals" who "don't pay taxes into the system". It seems
like a fair concern. But do the "undocumented" pay into the school
systems? My understanding is we're mostly talking about property taxes. And
even "illegal" renters are funding property taxes by paying their
rent! It's an unwise property owner that doesn't factor that in.
The Obama administration and other enablers of illegal trespassers prefer that
we NOT COUNT the numbers of trespassers.The nation might be SHOCKED
at what they find.@ "UtahVoter" illegal immigrant
trespassing is NOT a racist term, its a LEGAL one. Do you label EVERY law you
don't like as being racist?
The Word Illegal. Should cover it all no questions asked. If your not legal you
can't go to school here.You and your family need to be deported back
to where ever it is your from. You have nothing coming except
perhaps Common Protection Against Harm while on U.S. Soil and as child to be
Warm, Safe, Dry and Fed, plus emergency medical care. As in Car Accident, Injury
from Attack or Accident and The Birth of your Child conducted in a safe manner.
Thats mostly because I don't want to answer to God about not saving a life we
could have saved.U.S. Schools are for the use of U.S. Citizens.I do have trouble deporting a child whos Parents are Dead and there is
no family anywhere. Those we need to mark and I.D. into our Foster Care and
Adoption System. I am a Foster Parentt and raise other peoples kids
and I am concerned about that aspect of things. I am on the States
Side in this one but I do say use compassion when it comes to kids. There will
be pain, there does not have to be hunger or abuse.
@FitnessFreakI call it "racist" because our new laws set
quotas of how many "Chinese" or "Mexican" or
"Indian" or "British" people we will let in our doors. I've
actually been to meetings recently where elected members of the Utah legislature
get up and make sincere presentations about how "terrible" it would be
if we let in a higher percentage of "Mexicans". If that's the real
concern -- and it seems pretty apparent to me that -- for many, at least --
that's one of the prime concerns then that is racism.The other
arguments ("Stealing Jobs", "Draining Welfare",
"Driving Crimewaves") don't hold water.They don't steal
jobs. If immigration always drained jobs (and no immigrants ever *created*
jobs) then we'd have been sunk back about in 1622.1. The only place
I've seen anecdotal evidence of undocumented residents "draining
welfare" is in hospitals because of our crazy Federal mandate that
emergency rooms at hospitals give completely free care no questions asked.
That's a terrible imposition even without undocumented residents. In our
current climate, it's a recipe for disaster. At any rate, it's not the illegals
who voted for our unsustainable and unscalable welfare boondoggles. We need to
change them regardless.
I wonder how many of these undocumented workers want to become US citizens? Any
one have any kind of information on that?
I agree with many who say they want the Federal government out of the local
education districts. However my understanding of the history of the Supreme
Court decision "Brown vs Board Education" was to put the Federal
government into the local school boards because some people treated some kids
unfairly unconstitutionaly. The United States fought a war over states rights
the Federal Union won.I would rather have all the kids in school than on
streets dumb and making mischief.
The law does not discriminate, it's relevant to everyone here illegally.
And finally, neither illegal immigrants nor "hispanics" specifically
are any more likely to commit crimes than those of us who were born here. SLC's
Sherriff Burbank actually received death threats when he had the temerity to
show his department's data that (a) the "undocumented" were especially
careful not to run afoul of any more laws once they'd taken up
"illegal" residence and/or managed to find "illegal" work in
fast food, on a farm, or in kitchen. *and* (b) that "hispanics" were
slightly under-represented in general as far as crimes per capita with respect
to their numbers per capita.Long story short: I don't know Arizona's
numbers or California's numbers (though I've heard some pretty scary and
dubious, if you ask me, claims) but I've studied *a lot* of Utah's numbers and
it's not the undocumented committing most of Utah's crimes. It's the rest of us
in much greater proportion. You could kick all the "illegals" to the
curb and our crime numbers would stay just about the same. No matter how scary
those Mexican drug lords really are down in . That's the facts in Utah right
now. It's not the Mexican drug lords moving here.
"dougB" Please don't put much stock in ANYTHING Chief Burbank says
regarding illegal immigration he's an apologist for illegal trespassers and he
makes no secret of the fact that he REFUSES to arrest them.I live all
around illegal trespassers. Most have 2-3 sets of "i.d.". I wonder
if Chief Burbank DOESN'T consider that a crime. I DO agree though that BETTER
statistics would be helpful in discussing illegal immigrant crime, but the
"enablers" won't allow that, because they think its racist."Utahvoter" I think we "sort of" agree on a couple of
points. IF everify were implemented FULLY AND DEFINITIVELY, and welfare fraud
via bogus S.S. #'s were eliminated along with free healthcare for non-citizens -
most illegal participants would SELF DEPORT!CONTROLLED IMMIGRATION
is great for the country. UNCONTROLLED immigration is a burden we simply can't
carry.BTW - "dougB" Please explain to me EXACTLY WHY
Mexican drug lords WOULDN'T be here. Whats stopping them?
@UtahVoter This has nothing to do with racism. There are plenty of
construction workers who are unemployed because of illegal immigration. There
are businessmen who refuse to break the law and are at a disadvantage because
their competitors break the law and hire illegal aliens. What about the people
who are the victims of crimes committed by these people?Why is it
that some people have to scream RACISM every time there is a disagreement that
involves a minority? I know Hispanics who are livid with the immigration
situation. They played by the rules and came here legally. They see these other
people as cheaters.What is racism? It is a word a liberal calls a
conservative when the liberal is losing the argument.
If only it was not Alabama, where the governor on his inauguration stated that
someone who has not accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior is not his
brother or sister. This is part of the same law that would forbid bond from
anyone suspected of being illegal and makes it a felony for an illegal to apply
for water hookup from the locality. Alabama has such a model history for racial
neutral laws :)Fortunately, the judges have universally seen the
potential problems with these laws. I am conservative and want e-verify with tax
breaks to small businesses to implement it, but laws that take away our rights
are unwise. Anyone, could have been held without bond in Alabama. I wonder who
Alabama will blame for their economic woes when the only people left in Alabama
are U.S. citizens of non-hispanic background.
@NT, Springville, and Tami, Herriman,The first mistake is to
consider education a burden. Every economy is better when all children are
educated, regardless of status. We also educate all juvenile delinquents who
are children of murderers. Education is always cheaper than ignorance.The next mistake is considering people a burden. Foreign born residents, even
undocumented ones, pay more in taxes than they use in services. They also
commit less crime than native born citizens. States with the highest growth in
foreign born populations have experienced drops in crime. States that scare
them out with strict "enforcement-only" laws suffer economically.We should have invited them legally in the first place. Just think
about those still behind the border waiting to be legally invited. They have
done nothing wrong, yet we need them and ignore them.We must purge
our immigration policies of any racist elements that remain. Then we must
acknowledge the benefits of free trade, including the free flow of labor. Some
who claim to be conservatives suddenly cry out for protectionist laws based on
birth-right privileges. I thought America was beyond protecting a
John C.C., Sorry pal, but I disagree with you. First: Education is always
cheaper than ignorance, until YOU have to pay for it. I believe that is part of
the problem (who should have to pay for these people who don't belong here).
You actually believe that illegal aliens pay more in taxes than they
use? Try looking at the California budget crisis...with their high illegal
alien population. By your logic, you would have us believe that there would be a
surplus of money from taxes, due to lack of social services provided. Clearly,
that isn't the case.You contend that illegals commit less crime than
native born citizens. If you consider that every day they are here, they are
breaking the law, you allegations would have to be proven unsound. In addition,
because they are illegal to begin with, many of their actions are also illegal
(identity theft, working under the table (avoiding payroll taxes), etc... You
claim that states with the highest growth in foreign born populations have
experienced drops in crime? Hahahahahaha. Take a close look at states with
high illegal alien populations and you will see the reverse is true.
@ awsomeron1 Well said. Illegal is illegal but we have to be
compassionate yet firm in what we do. However we cannot at the same time put the
needs of the citizens below that of the illegals. It has been reported that
illegals even vote.... this is not OK.
John C.C. To continue, States that "scare them out with strict
enforcement only policies" suffer economically. I guess that depends upon
your interpretation of suffer economically. The communities actually benefit in
the long run because they pay for fewer social services, they gain more money in
property and employment tax revenue and the money is returned to the community
instead of being sent to family members in foreign countries. Finally, if you feel so strongly that we should invite all of the foreigners
from the rest of the world to our country, maybe we should give them all your
address. After they camp out on your front lawn for a month or so, you would be
a little more thoughtful about what you are trying to encourage. Oh, and just so you know...America isn't about protecting a royal class (they
can take care of themselves). America is about protecting the middle class,
it's our strength. When you encourage illegal immigration, it turns the middle
class into the poor and then you really do have class disparity.
With all the unemployment we have, it's probably not wise to continue legal
immigration for a couple of years. We need to deal with those here illegally
before we let in more people legally. They usually compete for the
same job, and it's not fair letting them in, when they have to compete with
12-20 million immigrants.
@John C. C. "...undocumented residents..."The
term "undocumented" is, of course, a euphemism, typically used by
opponents of the rule of law who know that they are in the wrong and know that
they must obfuscate their legally and morally inferior position in order to
maintain their standing in society. "They ... are seeking
race-related data..."A bald-faced, flat-out, pants-on-fire lie.
The facts make it clear that the data they seek pertains to legal residency
status -- NOT race.And, no, foreign workers are NOT needed, not with
this country's unemployment rate.
The Federal ruling has put a big load on states and local governments, without
compensation. The Supreme court will look at Alabama's law because we now have
two rulings in Federal court that contradict each other. With their allowing
Arizona to pull business licenses, don't expect the court to be illegal
friendly. Illegal immigration is against the law, so is hiring them,
and encouraging them to come here. The illegal alien who crosses the border and
works is the ultimate violator, look how one broken law can lead them to break
many, and create a situation where others are drawn into the illegal activity.
Chief Burbank's mixing legal and illegal residents in a study is not credible.
The discussion was about illegal immigration, and the Chief tried to confuse the
issue by combining two groups, one not related to the issue.
It's amazing how many people justify illegal and unaffordable behavior by
tossing around terms like "compassion" and "racism." We
must be the most naive culture ever to occupy the planet--and we certainly have
more people in prisons and on the public dole than any population in the history
of the world. But we just continue on, letting the special interests (like the
cheap-labor lobby) control our politicians, our media, and our society. But how
long can it last?
@UtahVoter,The lamp is, indeed, lifted beside the golden door. It
is those who choose to sneak in through the windows or underground tunnels that
are concerning. Even Ellis Island was used as a screening location. Among
other things, it was an attempt to protect U.S. citizens from various illnesses
that some hopeful immigrants carried.Should anyone be allowed to
come here at any time, including those who seek to harm our nation's citizens?
If you don't think so, then some sort of screening procedure is necessary, which
translates to a wait time.Do you think it would be a good thing if
millions more people suddenly showed up, competing for the jobs with our 9+%
unemployed? If you think that it makes economic sense to prevent such drastic
influxes, then wait times become even more necessary (and longer).
Every school system I am aware of requires parents (gaurdians) to present SS# or
birth certificates or both to identify that child and present past school
records. Sounds like this law isn't requiring people to present anything they
haven't already had to. The difference is that the schools now have to compile
that information and report it to the state of Ala according to the law. Many
school systems already use this information in a variety of ways including
looking at race and citizenship to determine services that may be needed.
call it "racist" because our new laws set quotas of how many
"Chinese" or "Mexican" or "Indian" or
"British" What is wrong with quotas? Ask the old residents
of Dearborn Michigan what they think of all the Muslims that have taken over
their City And ask them what has happened to the culture there. It will not be
long before the Hispanic population will be enough to control the vote in
America. Mexico has long said that they will retake the Southwest (or Atzlan as
they call it) through population. Lets just set by and let a group of immigrants
dictate how the Country will run to their satisfaction. If this is
racist then I am one. I as a Veteran did not serve this Country to just give it
away. Control immigration you bet! Stop illegal immigration dang right!
John C. C. said, "If they instead were to promote a broader and more
efficient visa system we could solve the problem a lot quicker by bringing in
the workforce we need without the stigma."Problem is, John,
that is a Federal responsibility. If the Federal Government were doing their
job - to protect our borders and equitably manage legal immigration - we would
not have states trying to handle the social problems that have resulted.It is the Federal Government's Failure and Ineptitude that has wrought
these issues. How can we blame the States for trying to minimize the impact?BTW - Even IF the crime statistics are at parity between Citizens and
Illegals (which I doubt), it is always the crime by the illegal that could have
been avoided by better immigration enforcement. Case in point - just this week
here in Dallas, a twice-deported illegal took a 10-year-girl from a family
gathering and ended up killing her. I lay this heinous crime squarely at the
feet of the Federal Government, which failed to protect its 10-yr-old citizen.
Another aspect of the illegal immigration debate that no one has alluded to is
the issue of "politicizing law enforcement".How dangerous
is it when we have some laws that police and prosecutors REFUSE to enforce?
Today its illegal trespassers. Tomorrow it might be theft.What if I
had someone break into my garage and steal things but when I reported it, police
said: "we don't have time to deal with that call your insurance
company", or "you have too much stuff anyway"?NO
MATTER which side of the illegal immigration debate you're on; you SHOULD be
concerned that police and federal law enforcement agencies AREN'T doing the best
they can to uphold and enforce laws!
Is it honestly a good idea to act like it's ok to be racist just because it's a
law? Slavery, segregation, and Japanese Relocation Camps were all legal, but all
wrong. There's no getting around the fact that our segregation laws are illegal
and the the federal government is overstepping their powers in passing them. The
Constitution gives Executive powers to "provide for the common
defense." This is referring to national security, not immigrants from
Mexico. The Legislative Branch does have the authority to regulate immigration,
but only in way that displays equality. Forcing immigrants to learn English
before becoming a citizen gives the wealthy and educated an advantage over
others. Setting quotas for certain countries is just plain racist. That's
Unconstitutional. We keep acting like our laws trump everything, but they don't.
The Constitution and the American Dream are what makes this country great. This
is the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, not the Land of the Arrogant
and Home of the Exclusive. Every person needs to step back and ask themselves
"what would I do? Keep my family in impoverished Mexico? Or seek something
@ sportsfan21; Every person needs to step back and ask themselves "what
would I do? Keep my family in impoverished Mexico? Or seek something
better?" Oh my what should I do. My family does not have a TV.
I should burglarize your home and take yours. I am only seeking something better
for my family so that should be acceptable? Illegas are stealinng from us all!!!
I don't agree with the illegals being given a free education at the taxpayer's
expense. If the want to go to school in this country they need to pay for it.
What part of breaking the law don't these people understand. When my
grandparents came to this country through Ellis Island they were well screen,
why should the ones coming to this country illegally be given any special
breaks. If they are here illegally, then send them back to wre they come from
and make them enter this contry ilegally.There are alot of people waiting to
come to this country the proper way. This illegals nor no better than the ones
waiting to enter this country the right way. What dosen't you people understand
about do it right or not at all.
there's a difference Mohokat, the Founding Fathers wouldn't define a tv as a God
given right. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Our immigration laws
are essentially saying "God gave me the right to be free, but not to you
because you weren't born here and you don't know how to file for a visa."
In this country we're judged by what we can do, not by who our parents were.
Give every man the right to be free and to work for something.
So bstaheli, you say "Give every man the right to be free and to work for
something."So you're saying we should open our nation's borders to
anyone who wants to hop across it and come here? Can the U.S. really afford to
let the entire world into our nation, and provide food, welfare, WIC and free
hospital care to everyone in the world? It sounds like a lofty and noble goal,
but it's not practical in the real world. Our nation is being destroyed by
illegals overruning our country and sucking up every entitlement that our
government gives them. Why can't they stay in mexico and "work
for something" there? Oh yeah, because it's easier to hop across the border
and get freebies from the US, which they have no respect for and hate anyway.
I get really TIRED of people calling people who break the law to get here and
then continue to break the law to get a job, there kids in schools etc..
immigrants.. they are not immigrants they are ILLEGAL Aliens!If we
welcome all the illegals who want to come here.. then pretty soon there will not
be room for any LEGAL immigrants to come.At the rate we are going in
10 years if we have a civil war or war with Mexico we will lose it because the
Mexican population is getting so large. It wouldn't be so bad if they came here
and WANTED to be Americans but so many of them do not. They don't even TRY to
learn our language they just want everyone else to learn there!And
what about diseases they may be bring in with them? And if they can get across
the borders what is to stop the terrorist from using the same way to get inside
our borders to create another 9/11?I am not against Immigration !!!!
But I am for protecting my Country! and it's legal citizens. And I am NOT a
@bstaheli over a million people each year come here legally on green cards. More
than any other industrialized country. My family members from Mexico took the
time to come here right, we should expect the same of everyone. Are
you saying that illegal immigration is a God given right? Where does it say that
in the Bible? I've seen much to the contrary. Come here legally,
hire people legally, and we don't have a problem. People come here
illegally from all over the world. It's not punishing one race, it's enforcing
the laws, no matter what race they are.
Open borders fanatics want it both ways. They continually remind us that not all
illegals are Hispanic, and that not all Hispanics are illegal (as though anyone
ever believed such) while claiming that opposition to illegal immigration is
only due to racism."Illegal immigrant" is not a race. It
is the status of being in this country illegally. Therefore enforcing laws
against illegal immigration is not racist. It wouldn't even matter if it was:
the Constitution does not bar most laws, especially vis-a-vis immigration, based
on their supposed intent, however ignoble. No one stands in the voting booth
invalidating your vote for a candidate because you voted for him for the
"wrong" reason.Finally, Plyler v. Doe: it was a bare
majority, 5-4 decision; a majority that consisted of 4 of the most radical
leftists ever to grace the Supreme Court with their arrogance and intellectual
vapidity: Thurgood Marshall, John Paul Stevens, Harry Blackmun (of Roe v. Wade
fame) and William Brennan who, among other brilliant decisions, declared that
the death penalty, practiced in this country since its inception, was somehow