'New York Times hosts large debate on the Christianity of presidential politics'
- Title What about the 'Wicca' of presidental politics?
Or the Muslim? Oh! Wait! That's right! America favors
only ONE religion... Federal judge dismisses Summum suit against
Pleasant Grove By Dennis Romboy DSNews 06/04/10 A federal judge
has dismissed a lawsuit against the city that claim it violated the
establishment clause of the US consitution by allowing a Ten Commandments
monument by rejecting one showing the the Salt Lake-based religious sects
beliefs. The clause in the First Amendment prohibits government from adopting a
national religion. And then claims it is 'tolerant.'
This nation has its cultural basis in christianity, but the government isn't
christian, it is one dedicated to freedom of religion.
I have no interest in personal insight into Romney's faith, or Joe Lieberman's
Judaism, Perry's fundamentalism, Biden's Catholicism, Obama's devotion to Rev.
Wright, ad nauseam. Let's hear about economic policy, energy, trade, taxation,
immigration, foreign policy, Supreme Court philosophy and a list of other
important items. Please stop rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Khan says Mitt "emphasizes his 'Christianity' in the hope that it will
distract from his liberal tendencies . . . Khan, are you nuts? If
anything, Mitt has been completely avoiding mentioning religion because he knows
it's currently a hotbed of controversy.
The one concern I have about religion in politics is this -- how much will the
candidates attempt to impose their religious beliefs on the jurisdiction they
seek to represent/govern. If they will follow the Constitution, and not seek to
establish their religion as the be-all and end-all of how everyone in the
country should and live and believe, then let them believe what they want. If
they, as the radical fundamentals are wont to do, try to impose their lifeway on
everyone else, then they must be rejected.
A good Mormon president would be better than a bad president of the official
Christian religion (the group that decides who is and who isn't a Christian).A good Jewish president would be better than a bad Mormon president.A
good Muslim president . . . and so on . . . So why not look for good
cadidates by considering their beliefs on the constitution and forget their
The New York Times declared it is fair to ask: "If politicians say their
religion guides them. . . Isnt it pretty well understood that a persons sum
total of experience is going to shape and guide their outlook and their
decisions? That is the same for all persons be they religious or not.In politics one size does not fit all. For example Mitt Romney, Harry Reid,
Mike Lee and Jim Matheson belong to the same religion but their political
ideologies vary significantly. Mitt Romney is not as conservative as Mike Lee,
Jim Matheson is more liberal than Romney and Harry Reid is more liberal than
Matheson. What do I care about then when voting? Is the person
honest? Is he faithful in his own home? Does he seem to support issues that
preserve freedom and liberty? Does he seem to be wise and able to adjust to
situations governing with wisdom? I dont really care what the religion is or
even what party for that matter. Only last week did I find out what religion
Ronald Reagan was and in my opinion he was one of the greatest Presidents since
Christianity is what the republican party WAS built on, but now we've got Eric
I think anyone who conclusively says "Jesus is more aligned with my
political affiliation than your's" has probably run out of ideas and is
losing the battle on whatever topic is being debated. That person probably has
no political empathy whatsoever, and even lesser understanding of Jesus.
@DSBThat's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, all of the founders of
the republican party were devout christians. That's all I wanted to point out.
@YouthforEager - I wasn't responding to you at all, and have no clue what you're
even talking about with Eric Cantor.But if the judgmental shoe
Religion and Politics don't mix!!!
Did anybody else notice what I found SO interesting - that only one of the
debate group supplied a scripture from the Bible showing what Jesus did when
confronted with a challenge to honor God or obey the law? And he was a Mormon.
To Mighty Might : Your an idiot, nice try to turn this into a
Mormon/Christianity thing.To Pagen : This crap seriously gets old.
America does not favor one religion. People in America choose their faith.
People in America may lean more toward one faith, doesn't mean
"America" chooses on over the other. Doesn't mean Catholics are
better than Mormons, or Baptist are better then Catholics...etc. It means
people make a choice, and that is the great thing about America. We get to make
choices. And by the way you say "the First Amendment prohibits government
from adopting a national religion". No it doesn't.Amendment
ICongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
government for a redress of grievances.You see, it makes no law
about establishing a religion. And it does not prohibit the free exercise of
religion. You people need to get off the 1st Amendment, you don't even
understand it properly. Use your head, that's why God gave it to you.
I told you I would tell you the truth. I didn't say you would like it.My views."If politicians say their religion guides them, and
influential ministers have a litmus test for candidates' 'biblical values'
which politicians espouse policies that align with Christianity?"None of them, they are in Office to not thump the Bible, we look for
candidates who embrace principles of our Country and the American people, for
their health, safty, and well being. We don't pray for them, for their 4th form
of Government that is K Street, that is a major thoroughfare in the United
States capital of Washington, D.C. known as a center for numerous think tanks,
lobbyists, and advocacy groups. For the GOP that's a perfectly acommitment to
their false biblical principles, in the Party of Family Values. Not mine. The
singular formula for applying Christianity is in "The Meeting Hall" on
Sunday, in the LDS Church, not The White House.
Since it is apparently virtually impossible for a person to be elected without
lying, the question of their religion is mute. None of them abide by their
In our response to 9/11 and the terrorist threat, "Christian" leaders
took an eye for an eye approach: a military response, and it has only made
things worse. The more we attack and have continued to attack, the worse the
problem keeps getting.How about a different approach? Go meet the
foreign enemy first-hand, as a fellow human being, to find out what it's like in
their world. Look within our own culture to find the source of our fear of
others. Turn inward and confront our own fears. Fear itself is the problem, and
fear-mongering is everywhere. We must face our fears. Somehow we
have to evolve, both physically and culturally, or we are doomed to a downward
spiral of self-destruction.I think we should start by admitting that
God does not bless America or any other country above others. He does not chose
one people over another, and He promises land to no one.These
beliefs are remnants of archaic cultures that now only serve to inspire fear and
justify acts of murder and genocide.Our salvation must come from
ourselves, not from religion.
UtahBruin | 5:40 p.m. Nov. 1, 2011 'And by the way you say "the First
Amendment prohibits government from adopting a national religion". No it
doesn't.'Actually, as much as I hate to do it, I have to support
Pagan here. The 1st ammendment does prohibit the GOVERNMENT from adopting a
national religion. However, that doesn't imply that it prohits
individuals from adopting a religion that becomes so predominant that it is,
defacto, the "national religion". This is the statement I think you
were trying to make.
Hey all....look at the picture. Does it appear that Rick Perry is trying to look
at Romney's notes?
I rather religion not enter politics. When someone tries to tell me that
they're righteous, or have god on their side, my first instinct is to grab my
wallet and run. Fast and far.When a politician says it, that
instinct is magnified tenfold.Religion should be something you LIVE,
not something you yammer on and no about. Religion is a personal experience.
Organized religion is about money and power. Beware the person who
wears his/her religion on their sleeve. If they sneeze, they're going to want
to wipe their nose on yours because they don't want to sully their own.
For those who want to keep religion out of politics--forget about it. We give
Israel $3 billion a year with few strings attached---both major political
parties are in on it and this has gone on for decades. Apparently this
payment to the middle east (as well to other countries) is more important than
our debt crisis. We-- emotionally-- put our objectives all on Bible prophecy
and end of world scenarios. There is no logic behind this----many in our
country mistaken modern day state of Israel with ancient House of Israel and
think they are one in the same--and therefore we can never question higher
powers. Then Sept. 11 happens and our nation goes bankrupt but we keep the
payments to many many nations. Was it the Prophet Paul that said if a person
can't provide for their own house, they are worse than the infidel? 1 Tim 5:8
I remember that the media cared not at all about allegations of Pres. Obama's
minister preaching anti-American propaganda in church the Pres. attended for
some time. Now that Mitt, of the LDSaints is running, oh, now it
matters! The press or media is liberally biased, and will attack a conservative
any which way they can, and do it in hypocritic fashion...its a double standard
'I remember that the media cared not at all about allegations of Pres. Obama's
minister preaching anti-American propaganda in church the Pres. attended for
some time.' - DRay | 8:47 p.m. Nov. 1, 2011 That's because people
were busy trying to claim that Obama was a Muslim. Want
examples? *'Trump on Obama's Birth Certificate: 'Maybe It Says He's
a Muslim' - Fox Nation - 03/30/11 Also: *'Fox News host:
Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11 Same
source. So, about the whole 'liberal bias' thing.....
@OlpuebloguyInWyo I don't see Perry trying to look at Romney's
notes. However, in the picture, Perry's countenance seems darker when compared
to Romney's. I'm sure it's just a coincidence though.@PagenWe are not going to elect a Wiccan President. Get over it. There just
aren't that many Wiccans. But seriously, the founding fathers
didn't apply a 'Christianity Test' for leadership. They were spiritual and
religious men who, frankly, didn't trust organized religion. We all pray to the
God of Heaven. If someone's religion makes them better, I don't really care
what church they go to. Just be qualified to be President. Our last THREE
presidents weren't qualified for the office.
'We all pray to the God of Heaven.' - A1994 | 11:00 p.m. Nov. 1, 2011 Not really understanding the whole 'Wicca' thing, huh? :) All
kidding aside, we are not going to elect a Wiccan President...yet!
I'm sure people said the same thing about a Mormon candidate. Well,
before 2008 and all....
I tried to put the following comment in the NYTimes about this specific series
of articles on Chrisitanity, but is has not yet posted. I hope the Christian
Conservative readers of this paper might find a bit of wisdom in it. Here is how
it went:It is always a great strategy to mute opponents by opening
what pretends to be a genuine discussion on a political dimension of their
persona. "Let's talk about Christianity in Politics" is meant to have
an auto-censuring effect on spontaneous Christian values by making them overly
self-conscious. I do not believe in the objectivity of this discussion. It is
meant to soften, through intimidation, the essence of the values of a candidate
to compromise to the point of weakness.It would more genuine for the NY
Times to have a discussion on "How do Jewish Leadership hold their
Ethnocentrism on a Sleeve when in Politics, Media or Finance...".
OK here is the question that I think needs to be asked of any candidate. If a
religious background does not inform your world view, then what does? Something
does. Something has too. It is just as important for us to know what
educational or life experience gives you your view as it is for us to know of
your religious background. I mean, I would want to know if a candidate had
attended a university like Berkely and studied Marxism. Particularly if they
came out and still agreed with it.
RE: Gramajane, Jesus did when confronted with a challenge to honor God or obey
the law? And he was a Mormon. Context,(Jesus) said, give to Caesar what
belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.(Mt 22:21)To God what is
Gods Jesus is distinguishing clearly between Caesar and God. ,Peter and the
other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!(Acts 5:29).
Example,The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
should be grounded in a Christians essential beliefs as well as a Mormons. Bible
believing Catholics and Evangelicals agree , no flip flopping here(Romney). For
you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb. I praise
you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I
know that full well. ( Psalm 139:13-14 NIV). (Judgment) Then shall
he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one
of the least(elachistos*1646) of these, ye did it not to me.(MT 25:45).
Applicable to*smallest least, in size,(abortion).
By the way, Romney has never said or implied that he is God's choice for
President, or the "true Christian" in the race. Some of the other
candidates have made statements implying that they are.
Religion of choice should guide all people in everything they do -- including
voting or running for office. It's most important to see if candidates live what
they claim to believe and second to that is that the person match your belief on
issues.If a person claims to be Christian, but proceeds to behave in
ways contrary to standard Christian behaviors, then who can trust what he or she
says? If a person's religion is unfamiliar, it may be wise to research what the
person believes, but choice of religion should not be as important as selecting
someone trustworthy who follows his or her claimed religion, and who shares your
view on politics. Please don't think you have to vote a certain way because of
your religion. There is no commandment that Thou shalt vote, (or not vote) for a
DRay,I heard a lot of talk about Reverand Wright during the 2008
campaign. Many people attacked President Obama's faith. Now Mitt Romney's
faith is being attacked. It's a peculiar aspect of human nature that we are
only offended when our point of view (or our faith) is attacked, but not when
the other person's faith is attacked.If you were attacking Obama's
faith in 08, then your complaints about Romney being attacked seem to be based
on self-interest rather than on principle.
@DSBSorry, I thought your comments were at me. I just wanted to respond.
Interesting, but a muslim was just nominated, by republicans, for a Virginia
State Senate Seat, and it looks like he's going to win. Wow.
To Rocket Science and everyone else: Not only was Reagen one of the greatest
presidents since Lincoln, he was THE greatest president since Lincoln.
ThinksIThink | 12:07 a.m. Nov. 3, 2011 There is a pretty major difference
between a religious viewpoint that preaches against the U.S. ("G D
America" comments) or espouses racism (Black Theology) and a religion whose
doctrines vary from traditional Christianity.You are trying to make the
issue about simply religion, but it isn't. The issue is about what doctrines are
they teaching from the pulpit. Rev Wright's doctrines are anti-america,
anti-white. LDS doctrines bother people simply because they are different, they
are certainly not anti-america or political in nature.
@RG Take out "since Lincoln". Ronald Reagan was definitely the
greatest president ever. His communication skills were wonderful. A
Lincoln-Reagan debate and well...We all know who would win...
Jesus also said, "I come not to bring peace but the sword!"