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Mitt Romney reverses himself, supports anti-union law

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  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 10:36 a.m.

    'Romney reverses himself, supports anti-union law' - Title

    'FAIRFAX, Va. A day after he refused to endorse an Ohio ballot measure that limits public employee union rights, Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney said Wednesday that he is "110 percent" behind the effort.' - Article

    Zero to 110% in 24hours.

    Romney just made every person who claimed he's a flip-flopper....

    right.

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 26, 2011 11:09 a.m.

    Romney is clearly anti labor and anti the working man.

  • eagle651 Chino Valley, AZ
    Oct. 26, 2011 11:30 a.m.

    All though most working people do not belong to unions; the improved working conditions and benefits the unions have created are the bench mark for non-union workers.

    Big business and their political parties will do everything they can do to reduce or eliminate these working conditions. Workers are just are just a thorn in their side.

    If you are a person who has to work to provide for your family; know how your candidate feels about YOU.

    Republicans have no love affair for workers. CEO's and stockholders always come first.

    An Independent point of view

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 11:35 a.m.

    I honestly have no idea what Romney believes on any issue, other than he believes he should be president. Is there any issue on which he has maintained a consistent position over the years? Or does he always say whatever it takes to win the election that he is currently contesting?

  • seer kaysville, ut
    Oct. 26, 2011 11:48 a.m.

    The unions have gone WWWAAAAAAY past doing any good for their members. Much like a pendulum that swings past its midpoint, the unions now are bordering on thuggery and extortion. Who ever heard of a job that had to pay union dues.....HAVE TO PAY? Let it be a choice....are we not all for choice? Do not force me to pay a union due just to be a bank teller if I choose not to. I might as well raise my hand and say I want to be a democrat, because that is exactly what is happening. My dues would go to the democratic party.......and OBAMA. NO thank you!

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 12:01 p.m.

    unions are run like the mafia. o to go. stop union thuggery.

  • BSU Lehi, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 12:08 p.m.

    I used to think Unions hurt Corporate America, and sometimes I think they do. But Romney was my only hope for a Republican who understood the LDS opposition to greed and to lft the poor. I have a Union job, although I'm not a member, and I can tell you that the Corporation I work for cares nothing for those whose checks they glean in order to buy that third an fourth home.

    We work hard, making the food you eat, and we barely make ends meet, the Union representatives are all that has stood between complete poverty while the rich CEO's grind upon our faces.

    The rich combinations who control their own wages and how much you pay for your food (I'm talking about Kraft, Hostess, all) probaboy care nothing for you either, and by bankrupting us they will bankrupt many of you too....someone needs to investigate, and so far the Unions are ths only ones to stand against it.

    I'm very disappointed that Mitt would support this.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Oct. 26, 2011 12:42 p.m.

    We all must be made aware of what will happen should the Republicans get their way....
    Will we revert to the "sweat shop" type conditions for workers that were the norm in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century? This would include very long hours, six day a week schedules, no OSHA or other regulations for a workers safety, no time off, no vacation, no benefits of any kind.
    One could be fired at a whim. Workers would again risk their lives each day at their job.
    Is this what the Republicans are working towards? It certainly is sounding more and more to be the case.

  • teleste Provo, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 1:25 p.m.

    I bet Pagan has never changed his mind about anything over a 24 hour period...

    right?

  • VocalLocal Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 2:18 p.m.

    I am anti-union and pro-worker. Unions have proven to raise unemployment and to stall the progress of hiring. Also they raise prices for everyone-leading a net drop in income for everyone else whether rich or poor. If you are going to help workers forming a union is the worst way to go about it.

    With that said I don't like laws the prohibit unionization. I don't think it's right to forbid any group from banding together to argue their interests in a non-violent matter. However unions rarely stay together unless laws are in place that force unionization or that penalize non-union workers. To me to force employees to join a union if they want to work goes against all principles of freedom this country stands for. I am all-for eliminating such laws and some of the changes being proposed by Republicans are not to prohibit unions but to prohibit forcing unionization on government employees.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Oct. 26, 2011 2:20 p.m.

    Mitt Romney may need to fire much of his staff if he wants to be President. Catering to the far right and being anti-union is a sure way to make Obama a two term President. He should have stayed with his own feelings as expressed the first day.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 2:26 p.m.

    Flip-and-Flop

    I'm reminded of an old TV show --
    "To Tell the Truth"

    Several guests were invited to flip-flop and out-right lie if need be to fool the Panelists and Television audience.

    At the end of the Televison show, the Host asked the catch phrase:

    "Will the REAL [Mitt Romney] please stand up!"

    Like Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley taught us i his book --
    "Standing for Something"

    It's all about Integrity -- not "I'll say or do anything to get elected".
    Including compromising on your convictions.

    That's all I want.
    No more games, no more messing around.

    Oh and BTW - may the best Man/Woman win.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 2:49 p.m.

    With every promise the Obama made during the campaign that now has been broken, that would make him the ultimate Flip-flopper.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 2:55 p.m.

    'With every promise the Obama made during the campaign that now has been broken...' - Eddie | 2:49 p.m. Oct. 26, 2011

    Promise:
    *'Obama HRC Speech: "I Will End Don't Ask, Don't Tell," Says President Obama' - By CHRISTINE SIMMONS - Huffington Post - 10/10/09

    Delivery:
    *'Obama signs 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal' - By Pauline Jelinek - AP - Published by DSnews - 12/22/10

    Promise:
    *'Obama to pull combat troops from Iraq by August 2010' - CNN - 02/26/09

    Delivery:
    *'Last U.S. combat brigade leaves Iraq' - By Rebecca Santana - AP - Published by DSNews - 08/19/10

    Heck...

    *'Obama announces total Iraq troop withdrawal' - By Ben Feller - AP - Published by DSNews - 10/21/2011

    *We have been waiting for this moment: Libya confirms Gadhafi is dead MSNBC 10/20/2011

    *'Osama bin Laden Killed: 'Justice Is Done,' President Says' - By DEAN SCHABNER - ABC News - 05/01/2011

    'Osama bin Laden, hunted as the mastermind behind the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil, has been killed, President Obama announced tonight.'

    What 'promises' are you talking about...?

  • LDSareChristians Anchorage, AK
    Oct. 26, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    Not having a position one day and then having it the next isn't flip flopping, or even a flip.

    If Romney had said he was for Unions one day and then against the next, you'd have a flip.

    His response, the day before, was of one who hadn't made up his mind on the issue yet. He was prudent, not letting slip an un-considered response. After, I am sure, some discussion with his advisers, he presented his position today.

    His actions were Presidential. Not the rash off the cuff remarks the other candidates seem to spill forth and eat later.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 26, 2011 3:11 p.m.

    Liberal Chicago City Mayor Rahm Emanuel has ridiculed the practice of paying Chicago's heavy equipment union operators overtime just to get ready for work. Seems that even the liberals are getting the message that they can't keep supporting staggering unchecked public unions.

    Looks like Wisconsin was right when they put a collar on public union employees in their state. This is not good news for Obama's re-election hopes in 2012.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 26, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    Ute Alumni... could you please explain your comment beyond a silly talking point

    "unions are run like the mafia. o to go. stop union thuggery."

    How are they run like the Mafia. While WORKING my way through college, I worked for UPS, unloading trucks at 5 am until time to go to class. During that time, I was a Teamster. UPS and the Teamsters have an excellent working relationship where both groups are succeeding not at the others expense.

    At no point was I forced to join the union, nor was my job conditional on membership in the union. I was never made to feel I had to become a member, and actually wasn't for my first year and a half. I was able to put myself through college and support my family at the time.

    No you are going to have to come up with a lot more then a Limbaugh style rhetoric to convince me otherwise. Have you actually worked a union job before? How is it you have come to be so knowledgeable about how unions work.

    I stand ready to learn from your experience - not silly campaign slogans.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 3:58 p.m.

    LDSC 3:01 would appear to make sense until or unless one is aware that Mitt had ALREADY gone on the record for union busting in JUNE. That means that this week's play isn't just a flip, but a RE-Flip to support something that looks as though it's going down in Ohio. My guess is that Mitt didn't wish to be tied to a loser and played dumb until caught disavowing what he was supporting in June. It doesn't sound too presidential, does it?

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 3:58 p.m.

    The wealthy owners and overpaid executives of corporate America/Wall Street have exported US jobs overseas (where they exploit workers without blinking an eye) and are pocketing record profits and bonuses, all at the same time we have near 10% unemployment, even more under-employment, and a fragile, depressed economy.

    And some of you die-hard Romney supporters are willing to swallow this kind of rhetoric, tap-dancing, flip-flopping nonsense?

    If ever I had any respect for Romney remaining (and admittedly, there was some), it is now completely gone.

    He had his wealth handed to him on a silver platter, lives a lavish, wealthy lifestyle, and takes companies apart so he can cut jobs and export them to foreign places where they exploit workers. Romney has no clue what common Americans are struggling with.

    He is the second-to-LAST person who needs to be in the Whitehouse (Donald Trump is the first).

  • merich39 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 4:12 p.m.

    the perception and argument of Mitt as a flip-flopper is only going to be strengthened by this.

  • bbball WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 4:17 p.m.

    Good for Mitt!!!

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 4:37 p.m.

    I didn't see anywhere in the article where Romney said he was "against" the Ohio measures. Just more of the media, and apparently most people on these comment boards, engaging in the type of "gotcha" journalism and dishonest characterizations that seem to dominate the dialogue today. Take a nuanced or vague statement, blow it up to the very most extreme possible caricatured interpretation, and create a false controversy to stir up the fan base.

    Although I fear an avalanche of inane, irrelevant, and out-of-context headlines in response, a perfect example is Pagan's remark "Zero to 110% in 24Hours." Where was the "Zero?" It did not exist in the first place. Just another wildly dishonest exaggeration to characterize someone in the most negative manner possible.

    Disappointing that Huntsman feels the need to engage in the same type of dishonest exaggeration, pandering, and "gotcha" politics.

  • FDRfan safety dictates, ID
    Oct. 26, 2011 4:46 p.m.

    "A Fox News poll released Wednesday shows support for Cain has quadrupled among GOP primary voters since late August."

    This plus the latest data on income distribution ought to alarm Utah voters. The Republican Party is not your friend. Mitt Romney can do the country little good by going the Goldwater route.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Oct. 26, 2011 5:16 p.m.

    If Romney is the best republican candidate Obama will have no trouble winning 2012.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Oct. 26, 2011 5:26 p.m.

    This will definately cost him. Too bad... he could have made some good ground by supporting the working class...now he's...going to be tossed into the fishy smell with all the other elitists who will sell this country even further down the river.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Oct. 26, 2011 5:42 p.m.

    Seer...first of all bank tellers are not skilled craftsman, teachers. government servants or first responders...That's a major difference that obviously you don't understand. The banking industry has never been a unionized trade. I really don't think you need to worry about being forced into collective bargaining

    ...and Vocal Local...just so you know... if you feel that you are being paid sufficiently for whatever it is that you do...it's more than likely that prevailing wage laws have a lot to do with it...and Unions predominatly are responsible for those prevailing wage laws in most areas of the country... and without those prevailing wage laws your standard of living most likely would be far less than it is...so you might want to reconsider what you wish for.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Oct. 26, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    Politics is a flip flop profession...It wasn't that long ago thar Democrats were the conservatives and republicans were the liberals especially in the South

  • kanaka818 West Hills, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 6:45 p.m.

    Re: Where's Stockton???-5:42 pm

    Since when are government servants "skilled" workers?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 26, 2011 6:53 p.m.

    People aren't very wise when picking leadership, and history proves this. Obama has given billions to other countries and helped build their economy with our American money. Created jobs abroad, while causing hatred here. As a country, we're broke, but the spending continues, and nobody cares.

    Nobody seems upset at this? Unbelievable! All we can do is criticize Romney and blame Bush for evberything?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 26, 2011 7:12 p.m.

    "Obama reverses himself, supports other countries:

    (1.) By MATTHEW MOSK, BRIAN ROSS (@brianross) and RONNIE GREENE
    ABC NEWS and iWATCH NEWS
    Oct. 20, 2011

    With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable of doing the work.

    :

    (2.) Obama administration to support offshore drilling in Brazil

    Posted by Steve M on August 18, 2009 at 12:47 pm | Share via e-mail

    The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazils state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazils Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazils planning minister confirmed that White House National Security Adviser James Jones met this month with Brazilian officials.

    Romney flip-floping? Isn't this a flip (from our country to another)?

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Oct. 26, 2011 7:16 p.m.

    kk818...You need to reread...where did I put skilled "workers" and government servents as being one and the same. I believe I inserted the word teachers in between and used the word craftsman instead of workers. You obviously aren't able to properly distinguish the differences. At leasst pay me the respect to qoute me correctly before you show your short sightedness. But... just for argument then where would you put first responders skilled in what they do... if not under government...or any workers in government that put thier lives in danger for the public good...I suppose you think of only congressmen and senators and other elected officials...what about the guys who ensure that you have electricity or running water or clean your streets or pick up your garbage...You don't think that they need representation too or do you think that people like you should just treat them as pions as well.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 8:19 p.m.

    Mitt, Mitt, Mitt, your flip flopping is now legendary.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 26, 2011 8:57 p.m.

    kanaka818 - you ask "Since when are government servants "skilled" workers?"

    Oh I don't know... since they keep several million travelers safe as they cross the country each day at 30,000 feet in several thousand flights...

    Oh perhaps those people who come to accident scenes and extract the injured and get them safely to medical treatment...

    Or perhaps those guys thta dropped into a foreign country and took out a terrorist... I would call them skilled.

    Or the guys when I was on a cruise and a passender had a heart attack - who flew in and hovered over an ocean liner at sea that was still moving and extracted the poor man... very skilled.

    I would even wager just a few of the police in your area, fire fighters, rangers, teachers, professors, researchers, judges, prosecutors who send bad people away... all skilled. Even the people who do work you look down on like engineer highways and build roads - pretty skilled.

    The arrogance of conservatives, looking down on those who work to keep our lives safe as "unskilled" is probably one of the biggest reasons I can't associate with that crowd.

    Arrogance isn't attractive on anyone.

  • kanaka818 West Hills, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 9:22 p.m.

    Re: Where's Stockton??? 7:16 pm

    Wow, must have struck a nerve. Four misspelled words in your response. Although your sentence structure is somewhat questionable, by your explanation, you apparently don't equate government servants with skilled craftsmen, teachers and first responders.

    Think DMV, Tax Collectors Office, Business Permit Office, etc., etc. Aren't these goverment servants very similar to the job descriptions of bank tellers and bank customer service reps? Why do goverment servants need unions and not bank employees?

  • kanaka818 West Hills, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 10:35 p.m.

    Re: Utah Blue Devil 8:57 pm

    I'm so confused. Where's Stockton ??? doesn't believe government servants are the same as skilled craftsmen, teachers and first responders. You say they are. In any event, just why does anyone working for a government, national or local, need to join a union?

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    @kanaka818

    For the same reasons that other workers belong to unions. The union I belong to works to keep management from taking advantage of labor. An example was when I was forced to work overtime for twenty hours in a pay period. The amount of money I was paid was less than my normal hourly wage due to a management loophole. The union filed a grievance for several of us and we were awarded back pay for that time. That was one example.

    The notion that every government worker is a fat, lazy, slob with no skills is very outdated. Not every government worker sits behind a desk in a cushy office drinking coffee. Many of us work shift work in dangerous, highly skilled professions requiring advanced degrees and years of experience. Unions insure that safety regulations are met, overtime is paid properly, shifts are fairly divided among the workers. Those are the same issues that private company unions deal with.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 27, 2011 5:59 a.m.

    Re: CHS 85 | 11:05 p.m. Oct. 26, 2011

    The liberal Democratic Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, is following the example the Governor and legislature in Wisconsin and is turning up the heat on Chicago's unions. He has ridiculed the practice of paying heavy equipment operators overtime just to get ready for work. He's invited private trash haulers to square off against city crews to see who does a better, cheaper job. And he's called out transit workers for getting paid time off not only for their birthdays but for the day they landed their jobs.

  • Well Read SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 27, 2011 7:06 a.m.

    Another example of Romney's finger in the air testing which way the wind blows. He will say anything or do anything to win the Republican Presidential nomination. I certainly hope the Republican Party cam yet come up with a Republican Candidate with more integrity.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Oct. 27, 2011 7:42 a.m.

    The unions have pushed the jobs overseas. The union have made it so our car companies are not competative. The unions make it so that we cannot get rid of horrible teachers teaching our kids. They are able to bargain for more money and better benefits at the expense of the tax payer and the consumer. Consumers and tax payers are tired of paying for full retirements after 30 years of work until they die. Private sector employees are given retirement plans and full benefits after they retire.

    When the public has a say at the bargaining table, then I may support unions. Until then, they are a bane on our society.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 27, 2011 8:50 a.m.

    Mick - huge issue with your assumptions here. If it were true that Unions were to blame for the domestic car makers problems, how is it that European car makers, such as VW, now the number 2 or 1 car maker in the world, lives with European social progressive governments, is unionized, and build next to none of their cars in Asia. Same with BMW, Mercedes. The French were even able to buy controling interest in Nissan.

    Horrible teachers are fired, check your facts. Our competitors overseas do offer full retirement benefits (Asia and EMEA) to their employees where our companies don't, and yet they compete.

    The public does have a say. YOU elect the representatives of the public who negotiate with the unions. These people who sign these contract are hired by you and your neighbors. If they aren't doing their jobs to keep things in balance, hold them responsible.

    It is about balance. Either side having too much power ends badly. We saw it with companies doing very bad things to save money, and we have seen it with unions too. Removing one side from the table will not fix things.

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Oct. 27, 2011 9:32 a.m.

    Hey Pagan and all of you other Romney-haters out there....

    Romney didn't "reverse" himself. What an absolutely mis-leading title for the article. And, gee, I'm suuuuure that title was just a coincident, wasn't it?

    Give me a break.

    He didn't "reverse" himself because he didn't say anything. HOW can you "reverse" yourself when you don't say anything to begin with?

    Honestly, do you guys even think?

  • A Guy With A Brain Enid, OK
    Oct. 27, 2011 9:41 a.m.

    If unions representing government employees have the ability to vote themselves raises WITHOUT any input from the very citizens who pay their salaries (through the taxation of the citizens/public) then what those unions are doing amounts to nothing less than legalized theft.

    What do you liberals not understand about that?

    THIS was the key issue in Wisconsin and it is the key issue all across America in various forms: people must abandon the ridiculous notion that they deserve something for doing nothing.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 27, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    Obama has created more jobs in foreign countries than here, and with the use of our money.

    What has this got to do with Romney, companies, millionaires, billionaires, banks, corperations, unions, flip-flopping, George Bush, or price of tea in China?

    Focus on the problem and lets fix it.

  • ItrustNo1 La Grange, TN
    Oct. 27, 2011 12:19 p.m.

    As I read some of these comments I realize just how much the media controls how we think. Headline: Romney Reverses Himself, Supports Anti-Union Law. Anyone who has read the whole article would see that Romney, as far back as April, stated that he supported the anti-union law on his website. He never said he did not support the law. The article interpreted what he said to mean that. Because of this misinterpretation Romney had to come forth the next day and clarify, once again, that he supports the Anti-Union Law 110%, and then the media uses this opportunity to call Mitt a flip-flopper. We the people are being plaid like a fiddle by the media. Most media today is liberal and is scared to death that Romney will be nominated. Just imagine Romney debating Obama on the economy.he,he Don't buy into this stuff about Romney. Romney is the only candidate we have that can pull the Independent vote and beat Obama in both a debate and the election. We have to win this thing this time because our country can't stand four more years of this administration.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 27, 2011 1:23 p.m.

    Guy with a brain... if what you said were true, yes that would be theft... I guess, sort of... not really. The employeer, the state, still doesn't have to employ them or have a relationship with the union. Reagon proved that with the Air Traffic Controlers. They wanted more, he said no, they went on strike, he fired them. Perhaps you forgot that little tidbit from history.

    So no, it is not theft. The employer can choose to renegotiate the contract or not. Employer still has the choice.

    Worf - exactly what jobs has Obama sent overseas? You got something to back that statement back. Yes, there was a new agreement with Korea, but the ink on that one has not even dried. What else can you point to that "Obama" did to send jobs overseas?... other than more radio head talking points.

    Is it your claim that when "conservatives" were in office, jobs didn't go overseas? Or that conservatives don't promote businesses like Walmart which is one of the world biggest job exporters?

    And by the way, Romney I think has been relatively consistent on this issue... so I don't see what the "news" really is here.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 27, 2011 3:33 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil,

    With the money sent, you've got to assume job creations. This is just two of many examples.

    (1.) By MATTHEW MOSK, BRIAN ROSS (@brianross) and RONNIE GREENE
    ABC NEWS and iWATCH NEWS
    Oct. 20, 2011

    With the approval of the Obama administration, an electric car company that received a $529 million federal government loan guarantee is assembling its first line of cars in Finland, saying it could not find a facility in the United States capable of doing the work.

    (2.) Obama administration to support offshore drilling in Brazil

    Posted by Steve M on August 18, 2009 at 12:47 pm | Share via e-mail

    The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazils state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazils Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazils planning minister confirmed that White House National Security Adviser James Jones met this month with Brazilian officials.

  • Christy Beaverton, OR
    Oct. 27, 2011 8:08 p.m.

    DSB | 4:37 p.m. Oct. 26, 2011
    Cedar Hills, UT

    Just more of the media, and apparently most people on these comment boards, engaging in the type of "gotcha" journalism and dishonest characterizations that seem to dominate the dialogue today.

    ===========

    "Gotcha journalism"? Is that what reporting the facts is referred to now?

    How can a true, authentic person flip flop so completely on issues such as abortion, climate change, minimum wage, health care, and DADT?

    This is what will prevent him from winning, not his religion.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Oct. 27, 2011 10:51 p.m.

    Utahbluedevil-

    I don't have a say. I don't have lobby money from unions or other organizations to persuade "my representative". UEA has powerful lobby money. Teachers don't get fired. I have several examples of the "good old boy" system in local schools. Poor teaching. Students sluffing in his room, but because they are a head hancho in the UEA association, he gets a free pass.

    I also have examples of a friend who worked for the port of long beach for years. He was a member of the teamsters. Obtained his job from a lottery because that is how popular the jobs are. He works four hours a day and received a full 8 hour salary with complete benefits. He was able to retire at age 55 with a full retirement and benefits. You and I pay for that with a higher fee on everything that comes through the port of long beach, which by the way, is everything.

  • Elcapitan Ivins, UT
    Oct. 28, 2011 12:17 a.m.

    Sergio.."Romney is clearly anti labor and anti the working man".

    Anybody in the work force may be called working people. Where did you come off using the old union slogan implying that, only union workers types are working people. People work hard in offices, labrotories, and in other similar type places too. If you get up and go to work in the mornings you should be called a working person.

    Sergio, this is just union rhetoric designed to divide people and get your own way.

  • radically_independent Orem, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2011 11:16 a.m.

    Mick - Really? Your thinking is that "Good Old Boy" systems can be prevented by getting rid of unions? I am not a union supported, but your linkage is a stretch. "Poor Teaching" is an interesting term. Even if you got rid of the "Poor Teachers", you wouldn't solve the problem asn probably 90% of problems in the classroon are a result of poor parenting rather than poor teaching.

    There are bad teachers, just there are bad people in every profession. I would challenge the notion that being unionized determines if someone is a hard worker or not. I can think of many example on non-union people who aren't the most motivated workers either. Is it your claim that if public servents like police and fire were not unionized, we would get better service?

    Southwest Airlines is a non-union airline, the poster child for the anti union movement - and yet even they posted a loss last quarter, while highly unionized Delta posted a profit, despite charging the same for the same service.

  • radically_independent Orem, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2011 7:17 p.m.

    I will say though that Unions may be an entities that have passed their time. Historically speaking, employers truly did get away with murder - literally. But labor laws, and silly little things like OSHA have removed a lot of the needs driving these groups to exist.

    I do question the need for unions in public service jobs. But the conservative standpoint that unions are not needed in government is a bit two faced, because 5 minutes later these very same conservatives will be claiming government can't do anything right. So if government indeed needs watchdoging, to check its desire to have unbalanced power - one would think that in itself would justify unions.

    I personally don't think all government is incompetent, and therefor doesn't always need to be checked. But there are instances that you do have bad school administrators where they yield way too much power to make a teacher's life miserable. In these cases unions do play a role in checking those influences. I taught here in the valley and have seen this first hand.

    BTW I never was a union member - not all teachers are.