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BYU football: Cougars' last 3 losses to TCU have been ugly

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  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    Oct. 25, 2011 6:15 a.m.

    I have wanted Heaps in there. I think his QB style matches the BYU system more than Nelson.

    However, Nelson has been very impressive and has been deserving of the ball each week. If Nelson can lead BYU to a win against TCU, then I am officially sold and suggest that Nelson is the 'starter.'

    At that point, it's time for Heaps to redshirt next year.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 7:03 a.m.

    I'm not real confident BYU can with this one but I think Nelson gives them as good a chance as they could hope for. His passing has improved quite a bit in 3 weeks and his scrambling and running abilities should drive TCU's defense nuts. The BYU defense is going to have to have their best game of the year to get this done.
    Go Cougars

  • IndeMak South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 7:33 a.m.

    This game will be ugly. Should play them better than Utah, but could turn bad.

  • Vince the boonies, mexico
    Oct. 25, 2011 7:43 a.m.

    The only difference between this year and the past three years is that TCU is not as complete of a team on both sides of the ball as they have been in the past. But that will make no difference this year because quite frankly BYU isn't exactly a world beater either. This lasest hype over the turncoat QB Nelson won't help either because quite frankly TCU has too much speed and athletism to let him have any success against their defense. A pinpoint passer would seem to be the only way to have a chance against them and Nelson doesn't qualify as that. Another loss "wonderful ones" is evident!

  • Coyoteghost Saint George, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 7:57 a.m.

    The early judgement against Riley was that he was not an effective passer. I have been very impressed by his confident ability in the past five games. This game looms as the best competetive game of the year--eveN better than the Univ of Texas game, which we should have won. GO COUGARS!

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:04 a.m.

    Tcu will put a beat down on them.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:22 a.m.

    I'm not sure what to expect. If SMU's undersized line can come in and control the line of scrimmage I don't see any reason why BYU shouldn't be able to the same and then some. I also don't see TCU doing well against a running QB but, the game is in Dallas.

    BYU +10 looks good to me

  • Runner Chandler, AZ
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:25 a.m.

    Looking at those stats over the past 3-years you have to notice the turnovers. BYU - 8 TCU - 1. If BYU can hold onto the ball, i.e., if Nelson can hold onto the ball when he gets smacked after running for first downs, and if Doman makes sure he doesn't call a 2-yard pass to the far side of the field -- see pick-6 against OSU, then I think BYU will be fine.

    Hopefully, they will be hyped and ready to go for this game, unlike in years past when it was, "just another game." After 3-years of beat downs, it is not "just another game" it is time that this game get personal and that the BYU players respond to the challenge.

    Go Cougs!

  • JustintimeY Boise, Id
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    It will be interesting to see if the coaches can come up with a game plan that will give them a chance against TCU. The TCU players and coaching staff have owned the cougars that last three years. Rise Up coaching staff, to here Bronco say that this game is just another game is very disappointing. This is not just another game it is the only game left on the schedule that will provide any credibility with a 4-2 TCU team. A win by BYU will go a long way for both Riley and Bronco.

  • WhatsInItForMe Orem, Utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:34 a.m.

    Good point about an inept run game in those TCU losses. Shouldn't be an issue this time with a mobile QB and several capable RBs.

    Even last year when TCU was so hot, BYU played them close a lot of the game, but faltered when BYU's QB was inept.

    So, I believe BYU's defense and better offense gives the Cougars quite a good chance of winning this one.

    However, get another beat down and I doubt BYU will beat Hawaii and end up 8-4. That's still a respectable year considering how it started.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Oct. 25, 2011 10:10 a.m.

    A month ago, I would have put the probability of BYU beating TCU at 10%. Now I put the probability at 40%. TCU still has to be favored, but I think the Cougs have a legit shot at a W.

    TCU has not been as dominant as I thought they would be, and BYU keeps getting better each week. They are both ranked in the "others receiving votes", which is about where both team should be based on how they've played.

    If the game were being played in Provo, I'd put the probability of a BYU win at 50%.

    There are several keys to the game, but ball security is number one. If the turnover margin is equal, both teams will likely be in the 20's. I'm biased, but I'll predict BYU-27, TCU-24.

    I don't sse this one getting away from the Cougs. I think the outcome will still be in question with 5 minutes remaining in the fourth quarter.

  • RepresentBlue West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 10:42 a.m.

    I agree that the jury is out on Nelson until Friday night. Beating a 3-4 San Jose State, a 2-5 Oregon State and a 1-5 Idaho State proves nothing. If he can do it against TCU then he is legit and deserves to take his place as starting QB, and Heaps will either red-shirt or transfer (I hope he chooses to stay and red-shirt).

  • fibonacci2112 VALENCIA, CA
    Oct. 25, 2011 10:59 a.m.

    I don't see TCU dominating like they did the past three years. Nelson brings a different look that TCU has not had to prepare for against BYU. As good as Max Hall was, he couldn't scramble like Nelson. TCU will not be able to pin their ears back and blitz as Nelson scrambling ability will make them pay. Nelson is criticized for his accuracy, but he puts the ball where players can make plays. If we win the turnover battle, we beat TCU.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 11:58 a.m.

    @ Cali Cougar

    I do not understand, what BYU system are you talking about ? Norm Chow has been gone for many years, the coach Edwards era has long since passed. I am not sure what you mean.

    The current style is a balanced between rushing and passing. This has been Bronco's stated goal.

    The only change up in the offense has been the insertion of Riley Nelson as QB1. Riley with the same talent around him that Jake had has been the difference an exponentially phenomenal one.

    The quicker reads, quicker foot work and the over all athleticism that Riley has, has inspired the running backs, lineman , TE, WR's to step up and improve there individual game.

    The SJSU was more then likely not a complete week of solid Riley prep I am sure Jake may have been in the mix for game prep, however for OSU Riley perhaps had his first full week of practice reps and had the offensive scheme built around him.

    With all that said, TCU has been a formidable nemesis to say the least.

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 12:00 p.m.

    Not only have they been ugly but last year was just totally awesome!!

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 12:24 p.m.

    I am still baffled by all the legit talk about Riley ? Weird double standard .

    What is legit about Heaps ? What has Jake done to be qualified as legitimacy ? Jake wins have all been games against all sub-60 rankings and this makes him legit ?

    There are no highly ranked teams that fill up Jake's portfolio of amazing wins that legitimize his game. So why is there a double standard ?

    So if Riley can not do the job against TCU every one here believes that Heaps can come in and win it ? Really ? I don't think so.

    What is legitimate this year in the game with TCU is at least Riley gives the BYU a fighting chance against a very nasty foe. I would jump into a fight with Riley on my side any day. Let me ask you all a question, would you all go into fight with Jake ? Answer no.

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 12:29 p.m.

    @representblue

    Nelson is a competitor.

    Is he Tim Tebow?

    No.

    But like Tebow, when Nelson gets in the game, BYU seems to play harder.

    I agree the wins over SJS, OSU and ISU do little more than add wins to the win column. However, at this point in the season, who couldn't use an extra three wins?

    Urban Meyer once said the key to developing a program is to control your schedule. No one gets to be Florida by playing Alabama every week. You schedule an FCS, some Non-AQ's, add in Mississippi, Vanderbuilt and then roll the dice against the big boys on the schedule.

    A win against a "soon-to-be BCS" TCU would be huge, even though TCU is in a down/reloading year. TCU has already lost two "statement" games (Baylor/SMU) this season. TCU has two more statement games in BYU and Boise State.

    It would be hard to imagine TCU not bringing their A game Friday night.

    Coach P should be amazing.

    Though...

    TCU did have a difficult time with a run first QB (Baylor) who could also pass.

    However...

    If BYU turns the ball over, it could get ugly...again...fast.

  • DRay Roy, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 1:03 p.m.

    Coaches must teach better how to recognize defenses, and Cougs must lay it all on the line...

    Watch out for TCU tricks...they may try to mess up your communications, will do anything to beat the Cougs...

    eat some green jello, green jello is like poison to horned frogs, so smear some on your forearms Cougs, its time we put them in a bottle, screw on the lid, and cast them into the sea!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 25, 2011 1:32 p.m.

    Ugliness preceeds the dawn of victory.

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 2:08 p.m.

    Look for TCU to sneak their linebackers up to 3-4 yards behind the line of scrimmage, constantly threatening blitz, but rarely doing so. They really will just be there to contain Nelson.

    That will challenge Nelson to throw over a large offensive line on 10-15 yard throws behind the backers. TCU will almost completely give up the 25+ yard routes in order to effectively smother everything underneath, because it doesn't think Nelson can consistently make those deep throws.

    BYU will struggle to rush the ball outside of Nelson's impromptu scrambles.

    If Nelson can complete a couple of deep passes early, establishing an accurate pass threat to open up the running lanes (counter-intuitive), BYU's offense will score, its defense will remain rested, and BYU can hang in the game.

    If Riley doesn't capitalize on those deep passes early, BYU goes 3 and out often, it's defense wears down, and TCU will roll.

  • Executive Lee West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 4:22 p.m.

    Many people say that Heaps has the QB style the "matches the BYU system". I have to disagree. You are stuck on OLD system. LaVell retired and we ran Anae out of town becuase we did not like his system. Doman is now the OC. HIS play calling and HIS style is now the new BYU system. The best QB BYU has to fit what Doman is all about is Riley. Doman was a runner in his days, so is Riley today. Doman is more comfortable with Riley in and the Wins are coming in. True the wins have been against snoozers, so I am excited to see what we have this week. Riley's sytle is now the NEW BYU system under Doman. If you do not like it, feel free to follow the Utes. They have Chow who will give give you the BYU offense of 20+ years ago. As for me, I plan to live in the now.

  • tantheman Lindon, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 4:55 p.m.

    If BYU wins turnover battle, they can win the game.

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    People actually saying BYU can win this game. Have you forgotten what happened the last 3 years? TCU has speed, they can run circles around BYU.

    There is a reason TCU is a 13 point favorite in this one.

  • pleblian salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 6:10 p.m.

    What is BYU offense's most effective change? QB draws. QB scramble. QB short pass efficiency. All Riley Nelson centered.

    TCU's first priority will be to contain QB scrambles and draws. TCU is not worried about BYU running backs b/c BYU rushing game starts with Riley.

    Hence, they will play to take away the QB mobility...not blitzing, but containing..forcing Riley to pass first.

    Second priority: Challenge Riley's arm and reads. Take away easy short passes.
    Clog passing lanes forcing him to roll out, bring safeties more shallow to saturate coverage on short/medium routes & quickly pursue scrambles.

    This will require them to give up the deep ball. In other words, they are going to force Riley to prove he can make correct read, and accurate long passes before they will play honest deep coverage. If Riley keeps them honest, it will open up the offense. If he can't, you'll see 8-9 defenders in the box every play and the offense will struggle.

    If the Y offense struggles, the Y defense will fatigue and get shredded in the
    2nd half.

  • Big Hapa Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 6:10 p.m.

    Uncle rico suave

    The present TCU squad is not last years team, in fact far from it. The defense is new Tank is there but that is about it. Yes they will be tuff, perhaps the strongest team to date for the "Y" , with that said I am not sure if they are much better then OSU ? Maybe any way we will all see Friday night.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:42 p.m.

    TCU is REALLY well coached and BYU isn't. TCU is really athletic and fast and BYU isn't. TCU understands how to stop BYU cold and BYU seems to wake up about mid way through the third qtr when the score is 38-7.

    I have the feeling HOWEVER that Nelson is so unorthodox and BYU being a running team now that TCU will be neutralized somewhat especially with the pass rush on defense. Can BYU hang with TCU's offense? TCU is a BIG play team so stop the big play and run the ball effectively and this thing could go down to the wire... or not.

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Oct. 25, 2011 9:47 p.m.

    I would take BYU and the points, Doesn't mean I think they'll win---but the spread is too much for Nelson, et al.

  • SoUtHapa Saint George, Utah
    Oct. 25, 2011 10:02 p.m.

    Agree for the most part with patriot's post.

    Refreshing to hear a positive spin from him regarding Riley, as I'm taking unorthodox as a positive.

    I have never bashed our coaching for multiple reasons, not the least of which being I played with some of them and know them well. They are good coaches. TCU may have some more experienced coaches but our staff is very good.

    Our boys are more athletic than they have shown this year, but I agree that if they don't show it this week, it could be a long game.

  • So. Cal Reader Escondido, CA
    Oct. 26, 2011 9:00 a.m.

    No doubt a healthy Nelson and effective running game are keys to the game; however, where's the mention of the Cougs defensen stepping up and having the game of the year against the Horn Frog's offense? Memo to defense, please wrap-up on the tackles and prevent the extra 5, 10, 15 yards many ball carriers have gained bouncing off tackles like a spinning top. Let's go, Cougs. This game is THE defining game of the season for us. Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah! Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah!! Rah, rah, rah, rah, rah!!! Go, Cougars!

  • DRay Roy, UT
    Oct. 26, 2011 12:17 p.m.

    TCU, Y c's u, got u in their sights, so be nervous...and scared, be very scared...

    Y will add another 17 points to their recent games against TCU, and win, 17-14, as a tremendous contrary wind will whip up negating the speed of the horned frog 10 sec. receivers, and the football will float harmlessly behind the qb who flings it. Go Cougars...remember Halloween is all about...the power of the green jello...

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Oct. 27, 2011 8:50 p.m.

    @bighapa
    are you serious with your statement that tcu isnt much better than osu?? wow you must be joking. you obviously dont watch football you just guess things bases on who byu is going to play that week. thats ridiculous that you just said they arent much better than osu. they played baylor down to the wire. you really telling me osu is playing baylor down to the wire? i dont think so. get a clue