I will never call Ricks College BYU - Idaho..........plain and simple!!
This article excellently illustrates a point I have made in response to many of
BYU's detractors in regards to research. Jabs have been made at BYU's lack of
research as a reason for not being invited to a BCS league (particularly the
PAC12). (First of all, I don't believe that academics is playing a significant
role in the shaping of athletic conferences.) The point this article
illustrates well is that BYU-Idaho (and BYU) have a mission to produce
top-quality undergraduate education, and they are both succeeding in that goal.
Their goal has not been to be a research institution nor to put their money,
emphasis, and time into graduate programs. A recent study showed
that BYU was one of the top 5 schools at producing PhDs. They are also one of
the the top schools in the country at sending students into Dental programs and
getting students into medical school. In medicine, the
subspecialists get more acclaim and recognition than the primary care
physicians, but the world only needs so many Pediatric Cardiologists, when there
is a huge need for Pediatricians. BYU/BYU-Idaho know what their
goals are and they do them well. Good for them.
i think it is great what they are doing at Ricks. That was a huge, largely
untapped resource. And there are many great faculty who love to teach who are
willing to be a part of it even if they earn less than they could get elsewhere.
My only beef is that they should have kept the Ricks name. I have always been
sad that it isn't called Ricks University.
I look forward to the next articles. This description of the beginnings of the
change for BYUI is in tune with the spirit of many foundational LDS Church
teachings, and another example of the inspired leadership of Pres. Hinckley, as
well as the other men who have been prepared to accept calls to service.
The article is curious. It isn't really news. More of a paean to the Y of I than
real news or even a human interest story. Shouldn't this be in the Church News,
rather than the Deseret News? Where are the controversies? Where are the
ambiguities? Nothing, other than passing reference to some who lamented the
elimination of the sports program. What about the irreparable damage to the
student-oriented atmosphere the school was known for? No mention that the Church
could have built another university and left Ricks to do what it did so well. No
analysis of the non-sequitur in the statement by Gordon B. Hinckley that the
Church needs to educate all or none or some. Based on the logic of this article,
is the Church now committing to build a new university with each additional,
say, 4 million members?The fact is that central to the Church's role
is being a light to the world. Why segregate Mormon students in Rexburg when, in
fact, they can be so much more of a light to the world by being in universities
"out there" in the world?
I've heard it said, and I wish I knew the source of the quote . . . ."If engineering is taught correctly, students should be able to cross the
Red Sea - with or without a bridge, which ever they choose."Society has been so determined to remove faith and religion from every aspect
of life and the same results that have been noted throughout history keeping
coming back to haunt us.
Wow! Now I know WHY Ricks dropped football and got renamed BYU-Idaho.BYUtv also explains why BYU itself won't drop college athletics, for those
with open minds.Can't wait for the next two submissions of this
article.Glad to see the Church being innovative above and beyond the
rest of acadamia.
Ricks College, now BYU-Idaho, has proven to be a school of higher education that
does in fact build a solid foundation for those who attend and study with real
intent. Teach young minds, then send them into the world to lead. An atmosphere
of greatness embraces all that is done on campus. The Holy Ghost dwells there
performing some of the most amazing and miraculous spiritual awakenings found
anywhere upon this earth. Please keep going.
A university that is being prestigious by giving low-cost four year degrees.
What a revolutionary, liberal concept.
I graduated from BYU-Idaho and went on to the U of U for graduate school. I can
say without a shadow of a doubt that I got much more academically for my money
and time in Rexburg. Moreover, several of my old classmates who went to
universities across the country (including BYU-Provo) tell me the same thing.
There is something to be said for having teachers who want to teach.
As a U of U alum and lifelong U sports fan I love BYU academia. I have a
daughter who graduated from BYU-I and couldn't have received a better education.
When I say education, I mean education for life. She learned great things at
BYU-I that allowed her to be employed but she also had the values that her
family taught her reinforced. I appreciate the values education she received
that can help her be a great person as well as an educated person.
@limejelloOver-thinking a simple paradigm shift can conjure various
litanies. This article shed light on a unique educational design, that offers an
alternative to the failing structure of the American Education model. It's
featured placement in the Deseret News seems as fitting as it's sequence for
patrons of the prestigious Aspen Institute. The article inspired
personal reflection. When a piece prompts self improvement, and introspection,
the benefit reaches both the individual and society. I find this fitting
newsprint, be it secular, or religious.
I'm glad BYUI offers a low cost education to so many students, but let's not get
carried away with praise.The online degrees are offered only to
those with previous on-campus study which excludes most of us. The
"Pathway" program is very limited; a member in Ghana or Manhattan can
enter but most LDS can't.There is a need for another LDS college, so
I pray The Church will take over some struggling college out in middle America
and transform it.
Re: limejello: This is news, and real news because a university focused on these
goals: "raise the quality of every aspect of the experience students have
on campus, make a BYU-Idaho education available to more young people and lower
the relative cost of education" is so very different than the norm in
higher education. Where the goal is to focus on status, raise costs, and
continue to provide low quality teaching that in most cases is just a barrier to
learning. This vision of a prophet to change an archaic corrupt higher
education system is just as monumental as another prophet's calling to change
the archaic corrupt religious systems of the world in the 1820's.
I got my Construction Management degree at BYU-I and it was great. Their
Construction Management program is one of the top in the country. With smaller
class sizes and hands on classes, it was a great place to go. It was too bad
they dropped athletics there due to cost. There was originally talk about them
being in the Big Sky conference with Weber St. with some BYU (Provo) recruits
playing their freshman and sophomore years there to gain experience before
playing at Provo. It would have been fun....
Overall I enjoyed the environment and the academic experience of BYU-Idaho, but
I submit that they integrate the church into the experience too much. They are
asked to say a prayer before the beginning of each class. The entire campus
shuts down for the devotional on tuesday. You have to be at home by 12:00. You
can't be alone with the opposite sex in a apartment. You can't grow facial
hair. You have to keep the blinds open if someone of the opposite sex is in
your apartment. 18+ year olds should be learning to live on their own, not
being coddled and controlled.On several occasions my ecclesiastical
endorsement was threatened for minor offenses, such as missing Elder quorum.
Which would have costed me a year. Having my academic progress held hostage was
overall a faith-demoting experience.To each his own, but personally I
wouldn't recommend it.
Thank-you Watcher and Hellooo. My daughter and her husband will walk in
December. My son will walk next spring. My visits to campus have been
incredibly nostalgic given my only semester at Ricks(fall 1965/pre-mission.)
Wow what marvelous growth and what a powerful spiritual atmosphere. AND a
beautiful temple puts the ultimate crowning touch to an amazing experience for
all who attend.
The Church does things by the Lord's methods, not the world's. I think this
article is great and I learned a lot of things I didn't know. Whatever need the
Children of God have, the The Lord and the Church have a program to address it.
This is a wonderful example of how the Church is providing educational
opportunities to our Father in Heaven's children throughout the world.
Kim Clark became well known at Harvard Business School for re-thinking the real
mission of the school and for re-directing the focus of the school to accomplish
that mission. He has continued to utilize his unique analytical talents of
"thinking outside the box" to bring much needed changes to this
institution as well as providing insight to other educational institutions as
they attempt to move beyond the archaic methods heretofore employed.
John Marx who forced you to go to college at BYUI? I heard David Bednar say if
you don't keep the honor code than go somewere else it is not fair to those that
do. And actually many of the commandments actually give people freedom as well.
I am a student at BYU-I and am set to graduate in a semester or two. I am amazed
and continually grateful for the quality and cost of the education I am
receiving. My interaction with my professors has been overwhelmingly positive. I
am extremely to Presidents Hinckley, Bednar, Eyring, & Clark for their
vision and work to make this happen. It's just been a great blessing. As far as a lack of athletics are concerned, I have participated in some of
the competitive athletics that the school replaced the intercollegiate athletics
with and it too has been great. The level of competition was much higher than I
had anticipated. There were students who had the chance to receive scholarships
at other universities playing a sport but instead came to BYU-I and coached
their own team made up of fellow students. I do wish that BYU would
play a "neutral site" basketball and/or football game or two on campus
as the facilities are there to accommodate them, or broadcast all the games live
on campus so that the students could feel connected to a team... Tom Holmoe, are
Bravo to BYU- Idaho for daring to rethink the entire concept of college
education and rebuild for the purpose of providing good education at low cost.
The inclusion of a faith based component does no harm, and despite the
conniption fits it may give the perpetually offended ACLU, it is a valuable part
of living a good life.This is a concept which is desperately needed
in our entire educational establishment, K-12 as well as collegiate level. And,
the willingness to sacrifice the sacred cow of athletics is especially
significant. Once that paradigm is broken, it becomes a lot easier to rethink
many other things "we have always done that way..."Indeed,
this concept should be applied to government programs and agencies as well.And, no one is forced to go to BYU-Idaho, only to adhere to their
standards if they do. You know, like when you have a real job and the boss
expects you to do certain things and you get fired if you don't comply.
Therefore I have no sympathy for anyone who wants the benefits of BYU education
programs without obeying the rules. Plenty of other "prestigious"
schools have no rules.
@higvThanks. You've reminded me of what I least liked about BYU-Idaho.
The inability to take criticism in any degree or in any form. You can't
critique anything (even student insurance policies or parking permits) without
someone saying "Well if you don't like it, you can leave." Just
because I disagreed with some aspects of the honor code doesn't mean I broke it
with reckless abandon. I never did anything that could have resulted in my
expulsion from the school. When my endorsement was threatened I knew it was
empty threats to try to keep me in line.I never said it was a terrible
experience. I'm just saying if you want to go to a university you will be
treated like an adult, I recommend somewhere else.
John Marx...Seriously, you should go somewhere else. There are
plenty of opportunities to voice your concerns to President Clark through
student representatives. Just the other day, I got an email from the dean of
students office asking me to participate in sharing my concerns, if I have any,
so that they may better serve the students. There are some things that we are
required to do as students, but your assertion that we are treated like
children, have no voice, and no freedom is bordering on the absurd. Do you know how much more affordable it is to go to school here compared to
other places? Do you realize the sacrifices the presidents of the school made to
leave places like Harvard and Stanford to come here? Your sense of
entitlement is astounding!
" ....the willingness to sacrifice the sacred cow of athletics is
especially significant".DN Subscriber: We all have "sacred
cows", don't we. There is a very large community in the upper
Snake River Valley that this has affected, and not necessarily in a positive
way. Athletic teams at Ricks College had been an important tradition for many
years - in its absence, the local community has "suffered". There are many who could care less, but there are many who thrive on the
traditions, and the atmosphere it brings.
I am a current student at BYU-Idaho and will graduate in April. I assume many
of you readers out there are returned missionaries. I would ask you to reflect
on how important and life-changing your mission was to you, and then read
carefully as I tell you that my experience at this school has been as sacred and
important a preparatory experience as was my own time serving a mission.Some here that the University "coddles" us and treats us as
children. I spent my first six semesters here as a single student and am now
married with one child. I am a better husband and father because of the way the
Honor Code has taught me to live. BYU-Idaho has also prepared me
academically, and has put me in an excellent position to pursue my professional
goals. I believe BYU is a great school, but for my circumstances, BYU-Idaho has
been a better match. I am grateful that the Lord guided me here, and that He
has provided this sacred learning center in the first place. Parents, you can't go wrong sending your kids here.
Enjoyed the article.....I do think Mr. Clark was done as the dean at Harvard
whether or not he accepted the position in Rexburg---I think after 10 years as
dean at Harvard, you must move on, and Pres. Hinckley knew that.... I would
someday like Mr. Clark's opinion on Larry Summers stimulus package that is now
known as the Obama stimulus package of 878 billion in February of 2009. I know
the two being friends probably think alike, but I'm just assuming that.
I really liked the article......many university elitists in this country are
against family and traditional marriage and having children......really ironic
since it is people having children that gives these institutions more job
security and a brighter future.
BYU-I is an important addition to LDS educational possibilities. It has a place
for students who desire particular kinds of outcomes. And it is important to
make education available to a wider range of students than attend BYU Provo. But the danger lurking in BYU-I's "new DNA" is the assumption
(one that Clayton Christensen and Henry J. Eyring make clear in their _The
Innovative University_) that vocational training--meaning primarily the transfer
of information about a subject--is equal or superior in value to "mental
training," meaning training in ideas, how to think. Obviously the Harvard
business school has been the model at BYU-I for what education should be, but a
survey of top business executives will show that a high percentage of them have
degrees in liberal arts rather than business--in thinking rather than in
particular sets of facts. A basis in the liberal arts followed by training in
business has worked very well for a lot of people. There's no reason
to believe that President Hinckley's goals require the present understanding of
education that defines BYU-I. This article praises Kim Clark and others for
confusing those two.
JF, if the "particular kinds of outcomes" one desires does not include
a cost-effective educational degree and a job, one should definitely choose a
private liberal arts college with a $30k per year tuition price tag. Deep
student debt and few job prospects are "particular kinds of outcomes"
for many college grads today.
"Seriously, you should go somewhere else." I'm already gone."Do you know how much more affordable it is to go to school here compared
to other places? Do you realize the sacrifices the presidents of the school made
to leave places like Harvard and Stanford to come here? Your sense
of entitlement is astounding!"I never said that BYU-Idaho isn't
a good educational organization or that it wasn't a good deal. I criticized one
aspect of the school. I forgot the "You should be grateful" was the
other goto response. Even when it isn't applicable.
Most people, in and out of the LDS Church and even here in Southeast Idaho, have
no idea about the miracle taking shape at BYU-Idaho. I feel remarkably blessed
to have witnessed all that has happened over the past ten years. I wonder what
the next decade will bring. I recommend a tour of campus if you have never been
here, or if it has been several years since you last visited Rexburg. You'll be
blown away (no pun intended)! Not just by the remarkable and beautiful
facilities and grounds, but by the many programs offered to enhance the
experience of every student. Also, someone made a comment about the new
Pathway program being limited in availability. This program, which will
revolutionize the way education is distributed to members of the LDS Church,
only recently moved from the pilot phase. Already there are, I believe, 27
satellite campuses, including sites in Mexico and Ghana, with eight more
scheduled to open around the first of the year. So give it time. A Pathway
site will likely be coming to your area soon!
El Chango Sumpremo"I do wish that BYU would play a "neutral
site" basketball and/or football game or two on campus as the facilities
are there to accommodate them, or broadcast all the games live on campus so that
the students could feel connected to a team... Tom Holmoe, are you
listening?"I totally agree with this. I'm not sure though that
many schools would see this as a neutral site, but I'd love to see BYU extend
its fan base by involving BYU-I and BYU-H more. At a minimum, they should be
broadcasting games there and I like the idea of playing some games
there--basketball, volleyball, soccer, baseball, etc. Football is so expensive
they need enough ticket sales to justify a neutral site game, but it might also
work. How big is the stadium there?
Rexburg Reader,You read my mind. I 100% agree with everything you say
there, and you put it better than I could have myself.The Church is
investing a lot of resources into BYU-Idaho. People will notice!
JF-I am looking forward to reading the book to further understand
your observation. However I am not as concerned that there is a confusion as you
state. When you study Clark's work at Harvard it was not
"trade-based." He was all about teaching people to think, especially
from within a moral framework that was larger than merely a profit-model. He
was all about engaging people to find and pursue their passions in a way that
make the world a better place.This is still unusual in business
education. With two students currently at BYUI, I can tell you anecdotally that
there does not seem to be any confusion. My daughters are empowered to think
critically, and to find their passions - their callings if you will.My wife teases me that I got a vo-tech degree as a CPA, while she got an
education. I understand the good-naturedness of the teasing, but I also think
that these "vo-tech" degrees are no longer as 2-dimensional as perhaps
they once were. And that is due to educational leaders like Bednar and Clark.
John Marx, I was hoping that you were still at BYUI. The "go somewhere
else" syndrome is only appropriate when someone is deliberately trying to
drag down the institution or organization, and you clearly weren't. Not
everyone who goes to a BYU school has to be identical, and when they graduate I
hope they're not identical, either. Rules are pretty useful in life, and
learning to discipline oneself to live within the rules where ever you are is a
valuable tool. We always have the right to "go somewhere else", but
the ability to stay where you ought to be at a point in time is often a wise
choice and important skill in a world that is rarely black and white in terms of
the available choices.
Japan Cougar,The stadium is not that big, so a football game ever
happening is quite unlikely. The basketball arena on the other hand
is pretty good sized and would easily accommodate enough fans to make it
financially worth while. I do wish that the Athletic Dept at BYU
would do something to include the student body at BYU-I.
I can understand how some subjects of education don't require research, but
science and engineering are both disciplines that I have a hard time believing
should be just really well taught--without realworld research application. Especially with how quickly technology is changing, and how one's
technical skills are obsolete every ten years (at best), research can help keep
students looking to the edge of what's possible.
Pushing the boundaries of extremism.
I started at BYU-Idaho during the first "official" semester back in
2001. I was able to transition into my degree after two years and graduated in
2005. I absolutely loved my experience at BYU-Idaho. I forged life-time
friends, strengthened my testimony, gained valuable life and leadership skills,
and married the love of my life. Many of the youth in my ward are at BYU-Idaho,
I remind them that as great as the school is, they get out of it - what they put
into it.The inspiration of the name change from Ricks to BYU-Idaho
was no more apparent then applying for jobs. Here in New England, none of the
companies I interviewed at had ever heard of "Ricks College" but they
all knew about "Brigham Young University." I know many complained
about the name change when I was in Rexburg, but in those job interviews I
recognized the wisdom from President Hinckley. I'm amazed at the
changes to the school/Rexburg since I left. My only wish for the current
student-body walking around campus, take those ear-buds out and socialize with
each other. Almost everyone looks like drones walking around. ;)
Why doesn't byu-provo accept all credits transferred from byu-Idaho? Back when
it was 2-year Ricks College, BYU rarely accepted transferred credits. Is that
BYU admitting that Ricks College wasn't very good?
I enjoyed my three years at the College Formerly Known as Ricks. I had a great
time and unlike John Marx never came close to losing my ecclesiatical
endorsement. I did sleep in a few times during sacrament meeting (even slept
through some High Council sacrament meetings). While I was upset they did away
with intercollegiate athletics, I have sat in on some of the basketball games
with the student teams. They are quite good. I treasured my time at Ricks and
made some great lifelong friends through our shared experience. Glad that it is
a four year now, and wish it would have been when I was there. I wasn't and
still am not fond of the name change.
Bednar was an associate dean over graduate studies in the business school at the
U of Arkansas--he was never a full "Dean at the University of
Arkansas" and never claimed to have been. Get your facts straight, DNews.
Japan Cougar,How about resurrecting a BYU JV program and playing a
couple of games in Rexburg vs. Montana Western or Carrol College!Other BYU sports like soccer, volleyball, even basketball could have preseason
or exhibition games in Rexburg. I like the idea of celebrating
what is great about all of the CES programs and by having a BYU presence in
Rexburg, and exporting some of BYUI's touring groups, art shows, etc. to Provo
could go along ways.
To Utter Nonsense,BYU also offers a degree in Construction
Management -- check out their catalog or do a google search.
A couple of points:This article is only about BYU-Idaho. What's
discussed does NOT apply to BYU, where professors are under the "publish or
perish" paradigm in most departments.No one is forced to go to
BYU-Idaho, so complaints about the honor code or church ties are pointless.The online degrees mentioned are entirely online. Attendance on campus
is not required. The number of online degrees will continue to increase, but
does have limits.
Ricks was a special place for those who, while not college material in the
classical sense of the term, had specific talents and abilities that required
encouragement and refinement. That is quickly changing. I don't care what the
"suits" say. I have had frequent annual contact with BYU-I students
since the transition. BYU-I students are gradually becoming as self righteous
and condescending as are many of their counter-parts in Provo. The spirit of
Christ-like acceptence and love has been replaced with a sort of white-washed
corporate attitude, such as you find in the Salt Lake Valley. Case
in point, BYU-I has stripped the various departments of the ability to award
departmental scholarships, in favor of centralized university scholorships.
Once again, those who least require encouragement and assistance are showered
with financial assistance and recognition while, the average student with a
unique gift or talent is left to struggle along. President Clark is probably a
nice guy and solid member of the church. But I know Ricks College and, BYU-I
As with first comment, the school in Rexburg will always be Ricks College to
many of us.One BYU is enough.
Add: The school in Laie will remain Church College of Hawaii instead of
BYU-Hawaii. Will naming schools BYU-Hawaii, BYU-Idaho, BYU-Star
Valley water down the prestige of BYU in Provo?
@byu rugbyLooks like you got 1 person who agrees w/you, tens of thousands
who don't. Not a bad ratio in any statistical paradigm. In the process you do
nothing more than give BYU Rugby a bad name.
The numbers of L.D.S educators who've left their posts from other
institution of higher learning for B.Y.U-Idaho is amazing. When Summers stood
before faculties and staff at the Harvard business school, he simply said of
Clark's decision to leave "I was not the president he listened to.
President Hinckley had a vision and Clark answered the call. Changes in church
business no matter what comes through revelation. When Aaron and his sister
Miriam murmured against their brother Moses, the Lord chastened them. Saying,
"Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make
myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. With him
will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches..".
For Clark and those great educators who have passed through the portals of
BYU-Idaho they sure know which president to listened to.
re: welcomethemall 12:32 a.m. Oct. 17, 2011This is still unusual in
business education. With two students currently at BYUI, I can tell you
anecdotally that there does not seem to be any confusion. My daughters are
empowered to think critically, and to find their passions - their callings if
you will.Empowered? Could you not find way to work in that other
ridiculous buzzword - proactive?Critical thinking skills at a
religious institution? Really?
When Nephi built the boat we learn that he did not built it according to the
manner of men. Something more innovative was required. Same goes for BYU-I.
I am eternally grateful for my time at Ricks College. It was a special place
for the student with a raw talent or gift but, not the requisite acedemic
standing to get into a university. I was continually blessed by the faculty and
staff. I owe much of my professional and spiritual success to that experience.
That being said, BYU-I is not Ricks. BYU-I for all of it's proven success
is gradually morphing into the kind of school I could have never gotten into. I
understand the need to educate more of the Lord's Children but, where can
kids like I was get a start? Not BYU-I.Additionally, BYU-I is
gradually turning it's back on Agriculture. Intelligence is nothing
without a full stomach. This is evidenced by all of the prime agriculture
ground used for teaching labs being torn out to put in buildings. The temple is
beautiful but, the ground it is built on once attracted agricultural
professionals from all over the world to study "dry land" agriculture.
We can't hope to be successful training the lord's future leaders
without feeding them first.
BYU and Ricks excel in one thing only. Micromanagement. They wrote the book on
it. The other things, classes, books and goofing off are the same as any other
We have had several youth from our stake go to BYU-I and the end results have
been a little disappointing. I do not think the youth understand the
differences in what BYU-I does and that when done there you need to go someplace
else. They have the idea that it is like going to BYU-Provo only in Idaho and
the same big company recruiters will be there waiting for them. Hopefully this
article will help but out here a thousand miles away not many will read it.
This sounds great to me! I am very impressed that the Church's college
campuses can offer such great educational experiences at private universities
for less, or the same, as it costs to attend State-sponsored universities. This
is unheard of among the private colleges and universities of this country. To
me, this seems absolutely amazing! It is truly a testament to the LDS
Church's commitment to provide a better life for as many people as possible
I remember being shocked at hearing that Kim Clarke would be leaving HBC to be
president at BYU-Idaho. After now reading about the speech he gave to the 200
colleagues at HBC, I also wanted to applaud him for walking the walk, after
talking the talk in encouraging his students to follow their hearts. Kudos to a
man who has done a remarkable job. And how can you not love Pres
Hinckley? "Hal, would we be able to make education less expensive if
we turned Ricks into a university?""Not sure, let me do some
research" . . . . . . (after research). . . "President
Hinckley, it looks like it would be more expensive, not less.""No,
it won't"And thus, we move ahead with President
Hinckley's prophetic vision.
Too bad it's in Rexburg.
Still wish they had a football team!